John Hardie & Co (Glasgow)

22nd August 2011, 11:21
I am trying to find information on this shipping company, that had a fleet of ships trading between Liverpool and Australia around the turn of the 20th century.

My Grandfather sailed on the maiden voyage of the now well known "Archibald Russell", but it's another ship of theirs that I am interested in, and would really like to find the log book.

The ship is the barque "Saragossa", launched in 1902 and ended it's days in 1904.

Precious little information is available, but the log book is what I really need to complete my research.

Thanks in advance for any help, information or pointers.
Tony Payne

22nd August 2011, 13:18

Do a Google search for "barque Saragossa". A number of entries there - something may be of interest.


22nd August 2011, 13:36
Thanks Dennis.

I have already researched the Australian, New Zealand and also San Francisco press items regarding the voyage of the Saragossa, but there are gaps which as yet I have not been able to find any information on.

The Australian news proved so far to be my best source of information, but I think that finding the ship's log, if it still existed, would be the only way to complete the story.

22nd August 2011, 16:50
SARAGOSSA id 1115737. built 1902 by Dundee Shipbuilders. Dundee. grt 2525. wrecked at Mangia.Cook Isl. 15/8/1904.

23rd August 2011, 09:33
The two areas I am drawing a blank on are the period between the launch and the ship's arrival in Liverpool. I haven't had any success searching the UK press for information on this, I just have a snippet from a later article that tells me this is worth looking into.

I also would dearly love to have more information on the outgoing voyage to Australia, other than what I found in the press. Only the ship's log will tell me that, assuming I can locate it, and if it still exists.

If I can obtain this information, I hope to write a book, but would really like to use as much factual information as possible, instead of filling in huge black holes on my own.

18th January 2012, 15:21
Hello Tony

Are you still interested in Saragossa?
I have researched Saragossa in some detail because my wife's Grandfather was the Captain of Saragossa from it's launch until he died in San Francisco. He was a Captain of several other Hardie ships from 1881 to 1903. If you are still interested I would be happy to tell you what we know.


18th January 2012, 16:48
Hi Stephen,

Yes I am definitely still interested in the Saragossa.

It's good to hear from you, I had a comment from you a couple of years ago on Gather, but then had no way of contacting you, so it's good to hear back.

I have researched the story more in the last 18 months, but there are a lot of gaps, and I am still trying to track down the ship's log, if it still exists.

I would be really interested in the information that you have.

Best Regards

19th January 2012, 07:20

I am afraid I don't know (or remember?) what you mean by Gather.
What gaps are you needing to cover?
What log books are you looking for?
I am not aware that any navigational log books have survived for Saragossa but the Official Log Book has and is at the National Archives in Kew. The Official Log Book only deals with matters relating to discipline and welfare of the crew but does contain some positional information.
I have seen the Crew Agreements for Saragossa's voyages from Dundee to Liverpool and from Liverpool to her eventual wreck at Mangaia Island. I imagine your interest is because a James Payne is listed as an apprentice onboard? I believe James Payne only joined the ship at Liverpool as his apprentice's indenture only started after Saragossa arrived at Liverpool and he is not listed on the voyage from Dundee to Liverpool.
I do have numerous press reports covering Saragossa (including the fires that broke out on the way from Liverpool to Sydney) as well as transcripts of the LLoyd's List Entries. The Court of Enquiry following the wreck is also available. I also have a lot of further information but too much to list here.
Some idea of what aspects you are looking for would help as I could then point you in the right direction.



19th January 2012, 10:57
Thanks Stephen,

I sent a private msg, but yes my Grandfather did I believe join the ship in Liverpool, and I found a single newspaper article that lists the crew including him.

This information would be invaluable for my research, and it looks like I need to make a trip to Kew this year too.