1936 cargo handling

MT Hopper
18th October 2011, 21:27
I am attempting to build a diorama set in Havan harbour about 1930
to 1940 era. I was hoping to have a Hog Islander at dockside taking on sugar as part of its' cargo. I am uncertain as to whether this vessel type is appropriate. Also the many sources I have seen have indicated that most sugar was delivered shipside in bags and that it was then manually dumped into the holds. I cannot determine who took the sugar off the train and then dumped it into the holds? The same people? Wouldn't maritime unions have some rulings about that?
Some sites have suggested that a little sugar was delivered and shipped in bulk. However they give no indication as to what that means. My best guess is, bagged sugar on palettes hoisted aboard = shipped in bulk?
Any help is appreciated.
Cheers from the Heart of the Contient(Wave)
Will

jmcg
19th October 2011, 09:55
Stan Mayes (a SN member) is possibly the best man to assist on this one.

BW

J(Gleam)(Gleam)

Supergoods
19th October 2011, 12:02
Nothing much changed until after the 1960 so pallets are probably out.
The bags were slung in groups of about 12 with a continuous loop rope sling. The sling was also double looped around two of the bags for stability.
The bags were then landed on a platform on top of the ship's hatches and the closing twine of the bags was cut releasing the contents into the hold below and the bags were sent back ashore for refilling at the mill.
Each port had its own methods and loading bagged sugar this way was especially common in lighterage ports where the ship anchored off the port.
I'm sure somebody has photos of the basic operation in places like Port louis, Mauritius.
Ian

Supergoods
19th October 2011, 12:18
Just saw this in the gallery showing the common method of slinging bagged cargo

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/data/510/cargo_.jpg

Ian

MT Hopper
19th October 2011, 14:53
Thank you all. This has indeed been most helpful.

Will

Pat Kennedy
19th October 2011, 18:46
I saw them loading sugar onto an inter island coaster in Cebu in 1960. They rigged a wide gangway from the quay to the well deck, and the gang carried sacks from the back of a wagon, up the gangway and aboard, on their backs, onto a platform over the hatch, where one man was stationed with a knife. the sack was opened and the contents tipped down the hatch at blinding speed. there were about ten men in the gang, and they worked at a fast rate all day long.

MT Hopper
20th October 2011, 15:09
Thanks Pat. That matches a written description of loading sugar in Havana in 1920.
Cheers
Will

bob southern
15th February 2012, 04:02
I am attempting to build a diorama set in Havan harbour about 1930
to 1940 era. I was hoping to have a Hog Islander at dockside taking on sugar as part of its' cargo. I am uncertain as to whether this vessel type is appropriate. Also the many sources I have seen have indicated that most sugar was delivered shipside in bags and that it was then manually dumped into the holds. I cannot determine who took the sugar off the train and then dumped it into the holds? The same people? Wouldn't maritime unions have some rulings about that?
Some sites have suggested that a little sugar was delivered and shipped in bulk. However they give no indication as to what that means. My best guess is, bagged sugar on palettes hoisted aboard = shipped in bulk?
Any help is appreciated.
Cheers from the Heart of the Contient(Wave)
Will

1944-45,,brought sugar from barbados to atlantic sugar refinery ,saint john ,new brunswick,canada,,in large jute bags,barbados did not have deep sea port then ,,anchored out in carlisle bay at bridgetown and sugar brought to ship on barge,,,also large kegs of molasses for crosby molasses in saint john,,bagged sugar was unloaded at refinery in large nets,transferred to overhead rail system and brought into refinery warehouse where it was processed,,we even brought empty bags back all cleaned and baled,,the cornwallis was torpedoed while at anchor in carlisle bay waiting to be loaded but that was 1942, i now live in suburb of vancouver,canada and i drive by b.c. sugar refinery a lot and i believe the sugar is piped aboard in bulk now much like grain,,sugar was severely rationed during those wartime years and security was tight,,i trust you have had good sucess with your diorama,,i just happened to notice your post on ship nostalgia and i couldnt resist commenting,,bob southern

stan mayes
15th February 2012, 11:13
My apologies to JMCG for not keeping up with this thread earlier.
My only experience of loading sugar was in Trevanion of Hain's in 1948.
From Tilbury we sailed in ballast for Kingston Jamaica and took on bunkers
then to Cienfuegos Cuba for bagged sugar.I believe they were 70 kilos each.
It was raw brown sugar and would be processed..
It was brought alongside the ship in railway wagons and placed into slings,then
lifted aboard ship with the use of our derricks and in the holds it was landed on
trestles... two men then placed each bag onto the shoulders of another and he
literally ran into the wings and stowed it.
It took 10 days to load about 7.000 tons and of course they had a two hour
siesta each day..
The cargo was for Tate and Lyle and was discharged at Victoria Dock London..
Stan

stan mayes
15th February 2012, 13:55
An anecdote to this voyage in Trevanion..
While alongside at Kingston taking bunkers,a Mammy came aboard with a basket
of fruit on her arm -bottles of rum were under the fruit..
When it came to sailing late evening the Chippy was missing and as his cabin door was locked we presumed he had gone ashore.We sailed for Cienfuegos..
My cabin as Bosun was next to his on the boat deck and around midnight there was a lot of shouting from Chippy's cabin and it transpired that the Mammy was there..
The commotion was heard on the bridge and a cadet was sent to investigate.
The outcome was that Chippy had to pay all expenses for her return to Jamaica.
I am still in contact with the Cadet involved,he now lives in California.
Stan

jmcg
15th February 2012, 15:57
As usual Stan your memories of your seatime in hostile times are a huge tribute to you and indeed an inspiration to us all.

Thank you for the PM.

BW

J(Gleam)(Gleam)

Trader
15th February 2012, 18:33
Lovely story Stan.

Alec.

Ron Stringer
15th February 2012, 21:46
In Durban in 1961 they used a combination of the methods described by Pat Kennedy and Stan Mayes. The bagged sugar arrived on the dockside in railway wagons and was slung aboard (as Stan says but using the dockside cranes, not our derricks) and was landed on a grating over a gap where 2 or 3 hatch boards had been removed.

Then a couple of guys with machetes split the bags open (as Pat says) and the sugar dropped through the grating into the hold. A team of dockers with shovels were down in the hold below, trimming and levelling the sugar and making sure it went under the wings.

Can't recall what happened to the empty gunnies but they didn't remain aboard. I suppose they were gathered up and slung ashore at the end of each shift.

We loaded about 10,000 tons between 4 and 12 August, 1961 and then sailed for Liverpool via the Cape. Arrived Huskisson Dock on 5 September.

hamishb
15th February 2012, 22:06
In the 1950s & 60 sugar came into Greenock James Watt Dock still in the bags. They were discharged by the dockers and barrowed into the sugar sheds. There was a man with a long hollow rod and he took samples every so often from the bags.
The bags were transported to Walkers and Tate and Lyle refineries by motor or steam lorry, these were very slow and boys would run and catch hold of the end sacks ,make a hole in them and get a feed of raw sugar.
If you were lucky and could attract the attention of the men inside the sugar house from Nicholson Street sometimes lumps of pan sugar could be had, happy days.
Hamish
CORRECTION. the years were late 1940s to 1950s, bulk sugar started early 60s. Sorry memory fade.
Hamish.