Serco in Rotterdam?

Waighty
22nd December 2011, 14:28
Follow this link to 1m 10s and look for SD SEAL. I didn't know Serco were operating in Rotterdam!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxk8DecnAAI

Slowone
22nd December 2011, 21:46
Nice one Mike, think Rotterdam would be closed for business fast if SD were operating there!!!

roofaerosyth
27th December 2011, 01:45
wouldnt be surprised if they were though.have you ever googled the name serco ? is there anything that company are NOT involved in ?and yet , no-one seems to have a good word to say about them fae what ive heard.lol.

Waighty
27th December 2011, 19:36
Hi Mark & Roo - I got sent the link by an old friend of mine (ex merch seaman) who was just commenting on the life of a place like Rotterdam today compared to the one back in the 60s and 70s. Bit of a fluke spotting the SD Seal. If it was Serco then they cover everything from prison vans to traffic lights to tugs (civil and MoD)!

Happy New Year to you both.

roddy
27th December 2011, 23:06
Hi Mark & Roo - I got sent the link by an old friend of mine (ex merch seaman) who was just commenting on the life of a place like Rotterdam today compared to the one back in the 60s and 70s. Bit of a fluke spotting the SD Seal. If it was Serco then they cover everything from prison vans to traffic lights to tugs (civil and MoD)!

Happy New Year to you both.

No not Serco, but given half a chance. A little bit of googling throws up some very interesting detail on what they do and even more interesting where they do it.
By the way noticed they have very recently acquired a fairly new and upmarket DP ROV/Supply Vessel, but are not making much if any noise about it's intended destination. Any clues?

roofaerosyth
28th December 2011, 05:05
if ye have a name for her il try to find out roddy.

WillieG
28th December 2011, 08:32
Would that be the NORTHERN RIVER? - reportedly to be used as a replacement for the TRVs......

roddy
28th December 2011, 09:59
Correct, and given the current age profile of the fleet it would be logical to presume it is a all singing and dancing replacement for the TRV,s

However with these vessels being mainly stationed on the west coast, it would also have made sense for the MOD to build an Emergency Towage capability into the statement of Requirements, that Serco operate within, suitable vessels are around. Joined up thinking, and sharing of requirements, is conspicuous by its absence in these circles.

mil511mariner
28th December 2011, 12:19
UT745L ‘Northern River’ has been successfully delivered to her new owners Serco Ltd on 20th December

Built as a platform supply vessel she has no towing capacity.

Used by deep ocean group for sub sea construction work / cable work

For use at BUTEC ? Unless SERCO have other plans for her - great boat

Bob S
28th December 2011, 12:38
KOTUG use prefix's depending on type of propulsion, SD stands for Stern Drive.

http://www.kotug.nl/en-gb/fleetlist/

Regards

Bob

roofaerosyth
28th December 2011, 18:03
would this be the ex trico shipping(norway) vessel we are talking about? IMO no 9179323 built in 1998.LOA 93m.beam 19 m.draught 4.3m.GRT 3.605 tons.call sign LNPI. ? if it is then i cant find any info on her.lol. shes a braw looking thing though.

mil511mariner
29th December 2011, 12:20
Yes thats the one.
Deep Ocean Group operated her.
TRICO went **** up and their operation was split up about 2 years ago. My ship Northern Chaser was sold to China.

Slowone
29th December 2011, 22:19
I believe the new ship is to replace the TRV's, SAL's and NEWTON plus anything else they think they can get away with. She sounds a bit big to replace the Kyle fleet!
Looking at the damage done to the Salmaid, would it be right to think of using this new ship as one of the emergency towing vessels, maybe just as well it has no towing gear

roofaerosyth
30th December 2011, 00:04
id say your right mark.having seen a picture of her. she is big beastie and a tad on the large side for BUTEC work.she would make a good mooring boat but from wot ive heard the mooring will now be done by someone else.so that would seem to rule out her doing moorings.and i believe that the victoria has or will take newtons place.which just leaves the trvs.(if any o this is wrong or out o date , feel free to correct me).i do not know which role the trvs were involved with recently but whatever it was i assume that the northern river is the replacement.

mil511mariner
30th December 2011, 13:04
Mark the Northern River has mostly been used for cable work by CTC and she is equiped with full work class ROV spread and moon pool and is DP2 - my thought was that you would use a vessel like this for all range maint and cable work at BUTEC - as well as putting her onto the offshore spot market where she could earn around £45K per day at the moment - more in the summer.

Slowone
31st December 2011, 22:37
This is a link to the Northern River details
http://www.deepoceangroup.com/uploads/pdfs/109.pdf
Looks a lot more useful than SD Victoria

mil511mariner
1st January 2012, 13:58
I agree

I havent been on the Victoria but have heard that she is "uncomfortable" in weather, the UT 745 are great sea boats as well as being very reliable and adaptable platforms if you want to enhance your vessels work scope.

Interesting times at Serco Marine -

Waighty
1st January 2012, 21:36
KOTUG use prefix's depending on type of propulsion, SD stands for Stern Drive.

http://www.kotug.nl/en-gb/fleetlist/

Regards

Bob

Thanks for this Bob. I didn't really believe that Serco operated in Rotterdam, hence the !!! in my original thread starter. But dimwit that I am I didn't connect it with Stern Drive; that could be because I've always termed it ASD.

Waighty
1st January 2012, 21:51
UT745L ‘Northern River’ has been successfully delivered to her new owners Serco Ltd on 20th December

Built as a platform supply vessel she has no towing capacity.

Used by deep ocean group for sub sea construction work / cable work

For use at BUTEC ? Unless SERCO have other plans for her - great boat

Hi Roger,

Looking at this PSV vessel, with a bit of modification she was the type that would have been perfect for moorings and towing and as a flat-top for trial work. Or maybe go straight for a modified AHTS.

Having partially watched a Maersk AHTS lift and lay an MOD First Class Mooring, admittedly one with chain cable instead of square link, as a trial run, in less than three days (working 24 hours of course) - that type of vessel would have been very useful. At that time the SALMOs were looking to secure funding for their little empire by speeding up the mooring process, not that it came to anything.

joe732
1st January 2012, 22:15
Makes me wonder why Serco ordered 29 new builds from Damen, when there seems to have been fit for purpose vessels elsewhere, already on the shelf, so to speak.
Suppose it doesn't really matter, as ultimately, the UK taxpayer will be footing the bill.
Oh, and not forgetting Serco shareholders making a profit.

roofaerosyth
2nd January 2012, 11:37
it was often said that the mod could have saved a shed load of money back in the 80s by buying a few o these offshore vessels instead of paying over the odds to build 3 new mooring boats at however many millions it cost at the time.(cant remember the exact figure but it wasnt cheap).they could have purchased a few o these at a fraction o the price.second hand of course.makes me wonder how much northern river was and how that compares to what the mod spent in the 80s?

mil511mariner
2nd January 2012, 15:34
The MoD bought 3 ex Seaforth anchor handlers 82 / 83 ripped the tow winches out and sent them to the Falklands as patrol boats. Early 90's the Sentinel came to Plymouth and was refitted with towing winch. I remember with horror watching as she shifted berth one day and the prop pitch failed. Luckily the long line of moored yachts at Torpoint stopped her from going aground. Probably used this incident to justify MoD procurement policy.

mil511mariner
2nd January 2012, 15:45
Hi Roger,

Looking at this PSV vessel, with a bit of modification she was the type that would have been perfect for moorings and towing and as a flat-top for trial work. Or maybe go straight for a modified AHTS.

Having partially watched a Maersk AHTS lift and lay an MOD First Class Mooring, admittedly one with chain cable instead of square link, as a trial run, in less than three days (working 24 hours of course) - that type of vessel would have been very useful. At that time the SALMOs were looking to secure funding for their little empire by speeding up the mooring process, not that it came to anything.

Mike, was it not the requirement for tidal lifts that kept the Sal's equiped with Horns ?

The Wimpey Seahorse came to Kyle around 83 to support Seaforth Clansman with the SAT divers, between the 2 of them they made a hell of a mess of the southern end of the range running anchors. The O/T relaying cable paid for a new car - All justification with the powers that we had it right with the mooring boats I suppose.

Tried square link at Akrotiri with the Kingdom of Fife in 2008 and it was a bit of a mess. Mind you I wasnt too impressed with the KoF either always sothething breaking ( Damen Galati) OK for nav buoys rubbish at moorings ( with square link) .

RetiredPMSO
2nd January 2012, 16:30
I was in on the early design meeting for what became the SAL's David Keogh had been sent out to look at the market and clearly told the meeting that industry was working over the stern. He was over-ruled by the then CSALMO on the basis "we have always done it over the bow".

RetiredPMSO

roofaerosyth
3rd January 2012, 01:48
ah! that old chestnut.that excuse popped up a lot in the mod that i remember.lol.can anyone remember how much the sal class cost when built?

RetiredPMSO
3rd January 2012, 12:04
It appears after talking to sources that Northern River is going to be a jack of all trades, not taking on a specific role but taking up many of the ad-hoc task that are contained within the contract.

Waighty
3rd January 2012, 15:47
Roger, you were right regarding the tidal lift and horns although I remember Mike Cobbold and Alan Ching muttering something about the primary tidal lift capability being lifting wires over the waist or between the horns and over the stern for a fore and aft lift. The horns apparently being for lighter and not necessarily tidal lifts, but what do I know, I'm only simple sailor! I remember Hall Russel being very agitated and on tenterhooks when the bodily lifts were carried out in drydock, no sooner were the weights off the bottom then they were yelling to get them back down on the dock floor; obviously they had a lot of faith in their shipbuilding skills!

Ron, it was gratifying to know that the SALMOs did at least want AHT design for the new mooring vessels. I would always have supported that view if only for safety grounds of folk working on deck - crash barriers to stand behind etc.

Still at least Serco are going to use the new beastie for muti tasking.

Roo, I was told in 1986 that the SALs cost £12 to £15 million, although when I was in Bath a total figure of £20 million was bandied about. Ron might know better than me.

BUGGINS
3rd January 2012, 16:04
when details of Sercos new build plans were announced there was mention of 2 anchot handling types to be built in Abu Dhabi to replace the TRVs but they were not proceeded with.

mil511mariner
3rd January 2012, 16:25
it was often said that the mod could have saved a shed load of money back in the 80s by buying a few o these offshore vessels instead of paying over the odds to build 3 new mooring boats at however many millions it cost at the time.(cant remember the exact figure but it wasnt cheap).they could have purchased a few o these at a fraction o the price.second hand of course.makes me wonder how much northern river was and how that compares to what the mod spent in the 80s?

Warships and Auxiliaries 1987 stated that the Sal's were built at a cost of £9 million each - big bucks then

joe732
3rd January 2012, 17:19
when details of Sercos new build plans were announced there was mention of 2 anchot handling types to be built in Abu Dhabi to replace the TRVs but they were not proceeded with.

I think that they may still be sitting in Abu Dhabi, after legal proceedings between Serco and the builders.

Really good to know that all these new builds were sourced out with the UK.

Apart from one or two yards here getting a few scraps here and there, doing conversions on the Moorhen, Moorfowl etc.

roofaerosyth
4th January 2012, 19:39
joe , do you mean the removal of the horns?what was the reason for doing that?and did they 2 have the same problems with the winches that we had with the cameron in rosyth ?

joe732
4th January 2012, 21:41
joe , do you mean the removal of the horns?what was the reason for doing that?and did they 2 have the same problems with the winches that we had with the cameron in rosyth ?

Roo

Yeah, that was for the removal of the horns. Believe they were removed for the conversion to diving tenders, albeit without live on accomodation on them!

Never worked on the things, so can't comment on the winches etc.

roofaerosyth
5th January 2012, 13:36
ye we had big probs wi the winches which wasnt sorted out until she was sold .but always wondered if the others had the same fault from new.anyone out there know?

Slowone
6th January 2012, 23:18
Cameron had a different set up to that fitted to the Moorhen and Moorfowl. While they did have some issues Cameron was trouble from day one as I recall.

On the SAL Class, I think they were around £5M each plus £5M in spares (Type B) and Insurance stock ie engines, bow thrust etc. THe spare main engine was fitted to Salmaid after one had a little problem. Most of the other major parts were sold off or passed over to SERCO as the RMAS was folding

roofaerosyth
8th January 2012, 04:36
cheers mark.i didnt even know they had spare engines but now ye mention it , it makes sense.thank god the salmaster never had any engine problems when we were on that trial up north every year.scary stuff . lol. i was on cameron with trevor ashworth as skipper.pete graham was chief and good old seymour (rip) was there as well .that was my last boat in rosyth.i dissapeared to greenock on a transfer about 4 months before rosyth ceased to be.and then ended up coming back to rosyth in 97 .just goes to show that ye never know whats around the corner.lol . cheers again.roo

roofaerosyth
9th January 2012, 12:48
do we know if northern river is working on the contract already ?

RetiredPMSO
9th January 2012, 14:12
do we know if northern river is working on the contract already ?

Vessel is currently on the Tees, as she is having some work done before taking up duties on the contract.

roofaerosyth
11th January 2012, 22:29
it will make a good platform for the LR5.assuming that the yearly re-validation trials still take place.or does that not happen anymore?

RetiredPMSO
12th January 2012, 13:57
it will make a good platform for the LR5.assuming that the yearly re-validation trials still take place.or does that not happen anymore?

No longer LR5, it is now NSRS (NATO Submarine Rescue System) which is bigger than LR5. Not sure if she will deploy it but one her task is to support the trial.

roofaerosyth
13th January 2012, 15:54
i did not know that.thank you kindly.if its bigger , does that mean it can carry more passengers?that was always the downside of the lr5.although we were told that lr5 was only ever meant to supply oxygen cannisters and food and water to a downed sub until the yanks dsrv could get there.dont know if that was true or not.i was supposed to go down on lr5 many moons ago (about 1990 ish), but when i got inside the thing my bottle crashed.lol.it definately takes a special kind of person to want to go under the water in one o them things.roo

RetiredPMSO
13th January 2012, 16:40
Put NSRS into Google and you will come up with a lot of info on the system, can apparently besides the crew take 15 "passengers".

Slowone
14th January 2012, 13:24
LR5 could carry 6 passengers as I recall, apart from supplying O2 / food etc it did have the capability of taking people off a stricken sub, thats what we were practicing when I had my little ride. My little trip in her was to see what it was like ..... got very cold and sitting hunched up at the back you couldn't see too much of what was going on either.
Any one remember the hydraulic pullers that were tried out on the Goosander and Salmaster. They were supposed to walk the wire inboard so that heavier body lifts could be undertaken, though I could be mistaken, much like those that thought it would work. We tried a test at the North Wall, Rosyth, once some load came on the wire the puller lifted off the deck and started to rotate, not a design feature they were looking for. Think they were stowed in the shed and forgotten about.

Norther River is either in or on it's way to Falmouth for modification to undertake the TRV role, one of many roles I think she will be doing. Just wonder how long it will be before she replaces Victoria!

roofaerosyth
14th January 2012, 15:03
at least you had the bottle to go down in it mark.i was in the thing for all of 30 seconds and just when they were about to close the hatch one of the crew asked me for my next of kin details just in case anything went wrong.that was enough for me and i was up the ladder and back on the deck o the sal .i took a proper slagging off from the sal crew for a couple o days for that.lol. dont remember the hydraulic pullers but i do recal we had a block attatched somewhere inbetween the base of the horns which had a rope through it from one of the frd capstans to the bow of lr5 to steady her.it was always best to get her in the water quickly with that crane.why would northern river replace the victoria mark ? is she not up to her task?i did hear that she was a very bad sea boat.

RetiredPMSO
14th January 2012, 15:29
[QUOTE]Norther River is either in or on it's way to Falmouth for modification to undertake the TRV role, one of many roles I think she will be doing. Just wonder how long it will be before she replaces Victoria!/QUOTE]


She has certainly moved around a bit, Tees, Tyne and now Falmouth. Regarding TRV role according to informed sources only TRV work she is due to take on is the Exercise minelaying system. Despite Victoria's shortcomings I doubt if Northern River would take on all the role which would take a fair bit of work and expense which Serco certainly wouldn't want to pay for.

roofaerosyth
14th January 2012, 16:30
pmso. is victoria crewed by serco/ex rmas guys or did they crew her outwith the job? and any ideas who will crew northern river? hope its the guys who used to run the sal boat til recently.unless they have all been scattered to other boats.

RetiredPMSO
14th January 2012, 19:16
pmso. is victoria crewed by serco/ex rmas guys or did they crew her outwith the job? and any ideas who will crew northern river? hope its the guys who used to run the sal boat til recently.unless they have all been scattered to other boats.

I am bit out of the loop on this but I think Victoria has a mix of both, certainly when I had a look around her a lot of ex RMAS deck side but some direct Serco employees on the Engineering side. No idea who will crew NR.

roofaerosyth
14th January 2012, 22:12
just seems like they have laid up loads of vessels in the past year or so and they havnt all been replaced because most boats seem to be multi purpose so they can cut down on men.and costs.which serco will like as they are always moaning about profit.or so i hear.but the jobs barely recognisable to what it was just 4 or 5 year ago.dont think great harbour will be a base much longer by the looks of it.it will just be full of boats for sale.its a bloody sin.incidently- when salmaster was up for sale she was laid up in rosyth and priced at 4 million we heard.dont suppose the other 2 will fetch that much seeing that they are older and the current economic strife thats goin on at the moment.i was on the damen site but couldnt find a price.would be interesting to find out what serco want for them.and if the trvs are still in good nik, they should sell pretty quickly.bloody good boats them.i thought anyway.

Waighty
26th January 2012, 15:58
Hi Mark,

The hydraulic pullers: I remember that £350K fiasco very well Mark. Another Brian Vere-Stevens (and other SALMOs who should have known better) masterplan! They were not meant to come off the deck and definitely not to rotate. A complete bloody farce.

The ultimate dream of BVS (probably after a few pints of heavy) was to get MOD to buy a second hand VLCC, chop the bow and stern off, fit all necessary infrastructure and cabling, then fit 12 of these hydraulic pullers, 6 on each side and prove that as a giant lifting barge the 'thing' could be towed to site, moored and lift a ssbn off the seabed! Complete fantasy but the scheme did get some high level support at one stage, I remember seeing the files.

Part of this dreamworld plan was for Salmaster to lay a four point mooring in the outer Forth and then lay the lifting trays on site, then using divers lay the weights into the trays! (can't remember the name for the weights, ex boom defence cast iron blocks with indents at base and fixed ring on top), then berth a SAL in the pattern and lift. Given that the pullers cost was £350K and the projected time scale for the trial was 12 weeks then a total cost ITRO say £1M?

I was all in favour as it would have kept us occupied for a long time! Bath pulled the plug eventually and as you say, the whole expensive puller arrangement ended up in the big shed gathering dust. I wonder what became of them?

Mike

senior pilot
26th January 2012, 21:01
seems like someone was trying to reinvent the old lifting craft that used to lie about the dockyards up to the late 70s

Bob S
17th March 2012, 18:25
SD NORTHERN RIVER at Greenock on the 15th March 2012.

SD NEWTON is seen behind