Ropner Ships Lost in WWI & II

Billy1963
16th January 2006, 12:40
I am hoping to compile a Book of Remembrance detailing the loss of the 70 Ropner ships during WWI & II including the 650 names I have of those who died. To accompany this I am looking for photos of the ships named below. Before I start having to pay the expensive prices at GMM and other places I am asking if anyone reading this has any they could either send me or scan at a high resolution. This is the follow up to the "Ropner Navy Memorial" I raised the money for which was unveiled in Ropner Park in October 2005 by the Rgt. Hon. Dari Taylor MP for Stockton South.

NB Those with ** next to the name, I already have copies


SS BALDERSBY, 3,613grt. Torpedoed and sunk by German submarine UB-91 on the 28th September 1918.

SS BROOKBY, 3,679grt. Torpedoed and sunk by German submarine U-60 near Fastnet on the 19th June 1917.

BURNBY, 3,665grt. Torpedoed and sunk by German submarine U-39 near Cape Falcon on the 26th February 1917.

SS COLEBY, 3,824grt. Captured by German auxiliary cruiser Kronprinz Wilhelm and sunk by gunfire on the 27th March 1915.

SS DALEBY, 3,628grt. Torpedoed and sunk 150 miles South-East of Cape Clear on the 29th April 1917.

SS DROMONBY, 3,628grt. Captured by German auxiliary cruiser Moewe and sunk by bombs on the 13th January 1916.

SS GADSBY, 3,497grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-39 on the 1st July 1915.

SS GLENBY, 2,196grt. Sunk by gunfire from U-38 on the 17th August 1915.

SS KIRKBY, 3,034grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-38 on the 17th August 1915.

SS MALTBY, 3,977grt. Torpedoed and sunk by UC-27 on the 26th February 1918.

SS MARTIN, 1,904grt. Sunk by gunfire from UC-18 on the 14th January 1917.

SS MOUNTBY, 3,263grt. Torpedoed and sunk by UC-49 on the 10th June 1918.

SS NEWBY, 2,168grt. Sunk by gunfire from U-35 near Barcelona on the 26th September 1916.

SS OAKBY, 1,976grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-8 off Folkestone Pier on the 23rd February 1915.

SS ROCKPOOL, 4,502grt. Torpedoed and sunk on the 2nd March 1918.

SS ROLLESBY, 3,955grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-48 off Muckle Flugga on the 15th September 1917.

SS SALMONPOOL, 4,905grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-39 on the 1st June 1916.

SS SCAWBY, 3,658grt. Captured by U-33 and sunk by bombs on the 2nd October 1915.

SS SELBY, 2,137grt. Sunk by a mine 34 miles South-East by South of the Newarp Light Vessel on the 30th September 1914.

SS TEESDALE, 2,470grt. After being damaged by a torpedo sailing from Hartlepool to Gibraltar the ship had been temporarily repaired was making her way to the Tees when the ship broke up and sank off Redcar on the 15th June 1917. 2 crew killed. **

SS TEESPOOL, 4,577grt. Torpedoed and severely damaged on the 19th October 1917.

SS THIRLBY, 2,009grt. Torpedoed and sunk by UC-31 near Fastnet on the 2nd July 1917.

SS THORNABY, 1,730grt. Sank after hitting a mine 4 miles North-East of the Shipwash Light Vessel on the 28th February 1916. **

SS TRUNKBY, 2,635grt. Sunk by gunfire from U-34 near Port Mahon on the 28th May 1916.**

SS WESTONBY, 3,795grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-82 off Fastnet on the 15th June 1917.

SS WILLERBY, 3,630grt. Captured by German auxiliary cruiser Prinz Eitel Friedrich and sunk by bombs on the 20th February 1915.

SS WRAGBY, 3,641grt. Sunk by gunfire from UC-37 near Cape Spartel on the 4th January 1917.


Ropners Merchant Shipping Losses 1939-1945

SS AINDERBY, 4,860grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-552 on the 10th June 1941. **

SS ALDERPOOL, 4,313grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-124 on the 3rd April 1941.

SS ASHBY, 4,871grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-43 on the 30th November 1941.

SS BOULDERPOOL, 4,805grt. Sunk by German E-boat on the 7th March 1941.

SS CARPERBY, 4,890grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-558 on the 1st March 1942.

SS CRITON, 4,564grt. Attacked and sunk on the 21st February 1941.

SS DALEBY, 4,640grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-89 on the 4th November 1942.

SS EMPIRE ARNOLD, 7,045grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-155 on the 4th August 1942.

SS EMPIRE BISON, 5,612grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-124 on the 1st November 1940.

SS EMPIRE DRYDEN, 7,164grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-572 on the 20th April 1942.

SS EMPIRE MERLIN, 5,763grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-48 on the 25th August 1940.

SS EMPIRE MOONBEAM, 6,849grt. Torpedoed and damaged by U-211later sunk by U608 on the 11th September 1942.

SS EMPIRE RAINBOW, 6,942grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-607 & U-704 on the 26th July 1942.

SS EMPIRE STARLIGHT, 6,850grt. Repeatedly bombed by German aircraft while discharging in Murmansk on the 3rd April 1942.

SS FIRBY, 4,868grt. Torpedoed and sunk by gunfire from U-48 on the 11th September 1939. **

SS FISHPOOL, 4,950grt. Sunk in an air raid at Syracuse on the 26th August 1943.

FORT PELLY, 7,131grt, Sunk in an air raid on the 20th July 1943.

SS HAWNBY, 5,380grt. Sunk by a mine on the 20th April 1940.

SS HAXBY, 5,207grt. Sunk by the commerce raider Orion on the 24th April 1940.

SS HERONSPOOL, 5,202grt. Torpedoed and sunk by gunfire from U-48 on the 12th October 1939.

SS HINDPOOL, 4,897grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-124 on the 8th March 1941.

SS KIRKPOOL, 4,842grt. Sunk by the German commerce raider Thor on the 10th April 1942.

SS LACKENBY, 5,112grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-624 on the 25th January 1943.

SS MANESPOOL, 4,894grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-97 on the 24th February 1941.

SS OTTERPOOL, 4,867grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-30 in Convoy HGF-34 on the 20th June 1940.

SS PIKEPOOL, 3,683grt. Sunk by a mine off the Smalls Light on the 22nd November 1940.

SS REEDPOOL, 4,838grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-515 on the 20th September 1942.

SS ROMANBY, 4,487grt. Sunk by an explosion between 22/23rd April 1940.

SS ROXBY, Torpedoed and sunk by U-613 on the 7th November 1942.

SS RUSHPOOL, 5,125grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-94 on the 30th January 1941.

SS SALMONPOOL, 4,803grt. Seized by German troops at Sandafjord on the 15th April 1940..

SS SAMSUVA, 7,219grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-310 on the 29th August 1944.

SS SEDGEPOOL, 6,530grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-123 in Convoy SC-7 on the 19th October 1940. **

SS SOMERSBY, 5,168grt, Torpedoed and sunk by U-111 on the 13th May 1941.

SS STONEPOOL, 4,803grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-207 on the 11th September 1941. **

SS SWAINBY, 5,811grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-13 on the 17th April 1940.

SS SWIFTPOOL, 5,205grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-372 on the 5th August 1941. **

SS THIRLBY, 4,888grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-109 on the 23rd January 1942.

SS TROUTPOOL, 4,886grt. Sunk by a mine in the Belfast Lough on the 20th July 1940.

SS ULLAPOOL, 4,891grt. Sunk by a mine in the Mersey on the 13th March 1941.

SS WANDBY, 4,947grt. Torpedoed and damaged by U-47 on the 19th October 1940.

SS WARLABY, 4,876grt. Sunk by the German heavy cruiser Admiral Hipper in Convoy SL-64S on the 12th February 1941

SS WILLOWPOOL, 4,815grt. Sunk by a mine on the 10th December 1939.

Hope you can help.

Thanks[SIZE=7]

R58484956
16th January 2006, 19:17
Congratulations Billy on the memorial, a great job well done.

Baltic Wal
16th January 2006, 20:43
If you are near any of the following ask to see their Merchant Navy Book of Remembrance that I have produced, it contains all the names of personnel, Merchant crews plus Naval and Army gunners that lost their lives at sea in the last war. Contains by ship name details of loss and how survivors were rescued plus all the names, otherwise contact me.
Imperial War Museum
Greenwich Museum
Merseyside Maritime Museum
National Memorial Arboretum

Billy1963
17th January 2006, 01:38
Thanks.

I have all casualty names from Ropner ships as well as all the other 24,000 men named on Tower Hill. It's finding the photo's of Ropner ships which is proving difficult. I managed to get hold of 4 photo's on ebay, but it's turning out to be an expensive project.

The last Book of Remembrance I wrote (unpublished) took me three years to complete. Dedicated to nearly 400 Merchant Seamen killed in WWII from the Tees to Robin Hoods Bay area who shipped out of Middlesbrough Pool. Lists names, dates, cargo, casualties, where, when and how lost. No publisher interested. As I am in touch with a number of the Ropner family after the Ropner Navy Memorial was unveiled, I hope this will do better.

jd0459
7th July 2007, 22:16
Well Done On The Memorial Billy I Saild With Capt Tingel On The Thirlby 1974
Jd

treeve
7th July 2007, 22:43
Billy, your untireing work is appreciated, as ever.
This site is worth a look for the Ropner losses.
http://www.murrayarmstrong.com/tm/ropner.htm
Thank you again for all the help you have given me.
Best Wishes, Raymond

sparkie2182
7th July 2007, 23:00
amazing work billy............

well done indeed

treeve
7th July 2007, 23:05
These are the only ones I have, but it seems you have these.

treeve
7th July 2007, 23:08
and these ...

gdynia
8th July 2007, 05:58
Billy

Send me a PM with a contact email address and I can forward some photos of vessels you are looking for
Rgds Gdynia

wa002f0328
8th July 2007, 07:42
Hi Nev
Have you got pic of EMPIRE MOONBEAM, my own father was lost on this one and can,t find a pic anywhere. cheers Bill

Pat Thompson
8th July 2007, 09:09
Greetings

My great uncle John James Brennan was lost in SS Polzella on 13th January 1940 some 6 miles north of Muckle Flugga. Googling SS Polzella brings up a wealth of information on the event.

I have always been told that SS Polzella was managed by Ropners although I cannot find anythin to prove that. Hope this is of interest to your project.

Incidentally Frederick William Perry, the oldest merchant seaman to be lost in WW2 was also lost in the incident.

This is the information from the Commonwealth War Grave site at Tower Hill concerning the sinking.

"In Memory of
Steward JOHN JAMES BRENNAN

S.S. Polzella (Penzance), Merchant Navy
who died age 44
on 13 January 1940

Remembered with honour
TOWER HILL MEMORIAL"

Finally, if anybody has a photograph of the Polzella I would be very gratefull for a copy.

Aye

Pat Thompson

treeve
8th July 2007, 10:46
Hi Pat,
I will have a look through the Penzance Shipping Registers for you.
Best Wishes, Raymond

K urgess
8th July 2007, 11:17
Polzella appears to have been owned by J. J. Thomas (Bute Docks) Ltd., of Cardiff through Eclipse Shipping & Trading Co. Ltd.
In 1942 the only vessel listed for the company is the "Nicoline Maersk" a motor vessel built 1925 of 4,200 tons.
House flag white (sometimes yellow) with "J. J. T." in black across the middle. Funnel yellow with black top quarter.
From "Merchant Ships 1942" by E.C. Talbot-Booth.

Kris

Pat Thompson
8th July 2007, 11:17
Greetings,

Thanks Treeve.

Aye

Pat Thompson

Pat Thompson
8th July 2007, 11:19
Greetings Again,

Thanks to Marconi Sahib, I think you were posting that info as I was writing to thank Treeve.

Aye

Pat Thompson

K urgess
8th July 2007, 11:24
OK, Pat.
I can't find anything that says she was part of "Ropner's Navy" at the time.
The name comes from the fact that Ropners seem to have been involved more than any other company in engagements with the enemy up to 1942. Also that their head office in Hartlepool was bombed by zeppelins and bombarded by the Imperial German Navy during WWI. They also lost a lot of ships to enemy action betweeen 1914 and 1918.

Kris

Pat Thompson
8th July 2007, 11:34
Greetings again Marconi Sahib,

Thanks for your last post. Out of interest John James Brennan's mother ergo my great grandmother, "Margaret Brennan" was one of those killed during the Bombardment of Hartlepool, They lived in Belk Street Hartlepool (close to the Victoria Ground football stadium) and according to family lore, when the excrement hit the air-conditioning being a god Catholic lady made a beeline for the Church and was zapped on Mill House (again adjacent to the football ground). The story goes that had she stayed where she was she would have been fine. My Grandfather always said that that event cured him of religion for life (exclam)

Aye
Pat Thompson.

Pat Thompson
8th July 2007, 11:37
Greetings yet again,

My Grandfather "Ernest Augustus Brennan" always known as "Ernie" was a Chief Steward with Ropners, I have his Discharge Book somewhere. My Dad (Stepfather) John (aka Jack) Hutchinson was Mate with them in both the Thornaby and Thirlby in the late 50s early 60s.

Aye
Pat Thompson

treeve
8th July 2007, 13:53
SS POLZELLA
ON 148 484
Nr 1 in 1929 Registered Port of Penzance
New Vessel; British
Under tonnage deck 4417.08t
Forcastle between decks 28.4t
Bridge House between decks 26.9t
Poop 108.15t
Deck Houses 145.17
Spaces for Machinery 25.92t
Gross Tonnage 4751.27t
Deductions 188.63t
Registered Tonnage 2867.64t

Deductions allowed
Propelling Power 1520.41t
Poop and Round Houses
Crew and Stores 198.78t
Accommodation for crew of 40.
Master 12.96t
Chart Space 3.94t
Wireless Room 2.76t
Bosuns Store 47.51t
Water Ballast 97.27t

Owners :
Eclipse Shipping & Trading Company Limited
Imperial Buildings, Cardiff Docks, Cardiff in the County of Glamorgan
64 Shares

Date of Registry : 23rd July 1929

13th August 1929; 1pm; Transaction – Mortgage dated 13th August 1929 to secure sum due on account current and interest. Midland Bank Limited having its principal place of business at 5 Threadneedle Street in the City of London.

Registry Closed this 15th day of June 1940 except as for as relates to Mortgage. Ship missing since leaving Narvik and Rodinglis on the 13th January 1940. Certificate with the vessel. Advice received from Manager.

Screw Steamship, built West Hartlepool 1929
William Gray & Co Ltd
One deck and Shelter Deck, two masts, schooner rig; elliptical stern
Clinker built; steel framework, cargo vessel.
Six bulkheads; seven water ballasts 1505 tons
Length from forepart of stem to stern post 400.1 ft
Breadth 54.25 ft
Depth in hold 25.15 ft
Depth from top of beam midships to top of keel 28.66 ft
Depth top of deck at sides amidships to bottom of keel 27.77 ft
Round of Beam 1.12 ft
Length of Engine Room 47.3 ft

Total Displacement to quarter depth from weather deck to bottom of keel 9790t

Engine : one inverted direct acting triple expansion condensing
Built Wm Gray & Co Ltd
Three cylinders 26 inch, 43 inch and 71 inch
Length of stroke 48 inch
440 nhp
2023 ihp
10.25 knots

Boilers by Wm Gray & Co Ltd
Three Steel Multitubular
Load Pressure 180 lbs

Manager :
John James Thomas of Imperial Buildings, Mount Stewart Square, Cardiff Docks
appointed manager. Advice under his hand as the duly appointed Public Officer of eclipse shipping & Trading Company Limited; received and recorded the 1st day of August 1929.

Eclipse Shipping & Trading Company Limited now having its principal place of business and its Registered Manager John James Thomas at Merthyr House, James Street, Cardiff in the county of Glamorgan; advice under the hand of John James Thomas the person to whom management of the vessel is entrusted by and on behalf of Eclipse Shipping & Trading Company Limited, dated 16th June 1931.

That is freshly transcribed for you ...
Best Wishes, Raymond

Billy1963
9th July 2007, 16:32
Just seen the recent postings. Thanks to all who have contacted me and sent photo's. I now have a good collection and the only WWII photo's I am looking for now are the following.

SS ALDERPOOL, 4,313grt.

SS CRITON, 4,564grt.

SS EMPIRE ARNOLD, 7,045grt.

SS EMPIRE DRYDEN, 7,164grt.

SS EMPIRE MOONBEAM, 6,849grt.

SS EMPIRE RAINBOW, 6,942grt.

SS EMPIRE STARLIGHT, 6,850grt.

FORT PELLY, 7,131grt.

SS SAMSUVA, 7,219grt.

SS SEDGEPOOL, 6,530grt.

SS SWAINBY, 5,811grt.

SS TROUTPOOL, 4,886grt.

SS WANDBY, 4,947grt.

Still unable to find a publisher for my book.

On Wednesday 4th July, I was formally presented to HRH The Duke of Gloucester at the official opening of the restoration of Ropner Park to talk to the Duke about the Ropner Navy Memorial I raised money for and had erected in 2005. His Grandfather, the then Duke of York, later to become King George V. originally opened the park in 1893. I also had the pleasure to meet Mr. Bruce Ropner, a former director of the Ropner Shipping Co.

Rgds Billy

lakercapt
9th July 2007, 19:33
There is an archives and collections Society in Ontario that may have the pictures you want.
www.aandc.org/research/ropner.

adress
P.O.Box 125
Picton ON K0K 2T0
Canada.
Gives great details anout all Ropner Ships

treeve
9th July 2007, 23:12
http://www.aandc.org/research/ropner.html
small correction

Billy1963
10th July 2007, 00:55
Thanks for that, but the details on that site are well known and not the complete history on Ropner ships. The information I have compiled is a lot more detailed.

I finished writing the full fleet history of the Ropner Shipping Co. from 1874 to 1997 when the Co. was taken over by Jacobs Holdings Ltd (including the ships owned with Thomas Appleby from 1866) The book titled "Ropner's Navy" is in four parts with the first part dealing with a history of the Ropner family and their shipping legacy. The second part details the fleet list of some 284 ships owned and managed by the Co. detailing date & yard built, tonnage, name changes and eventual demise. The third part details all 70 WWI & II losses due to enemy action, detailing cargo, convoy, how and where lost & casualty figures. The final part details the individual names of the 736 men I traced lost from Ropner ships registered with the CWGC (80 from WWI, 656 from WWII).

Stubbsy5050
11th July 2007, 10:52
Billy (and everybody),

I have just discovered this site and congratulations on your good work.

My wife's grandfather Andrew (Mack) Pyle was 4th Engineer on the S/S Romanby in 1940 carrying iron ore from Narvik to Cardiff when she was trapped in the harbour with 4 other British ships during the Battle of Narvik. I have a report that she was struck and damaged by a torpedo, possibly from HMS Hotspur on the night of 9th/10th April and then hit again in the attack by HMS Icarus etc. on 13th April. She is listed in German records as "scuttled" by 22nd/23rd April but she was probably already settled in the water by then.

Mack Pyle survived a forced "death march" over the mountains through deep snow only to be interned by the Swedes at Haelsingmo. In 1942 he volunteered for Operation Performance, a planned breakout of 10 interned ships and foreign nationals (mainly British and Norwegians) from Gothenburg but the German Navy were well briefed and were waiting for them outside the harbour. His ship the Charente was scuttled and he was captured, interrogated by German Navy Intelligence and the Gestapo, and ended up at the Milag Nord prison camp.

Of the 471 who took part in the breakout 19 were killed and 234 were captured. Of these 43 were shot or died in prison. Only 124 made it to back to England.

Mack Pyle's son Henry Pyle (and I think his brother James Pyle) also served with Ropners before moving to Niarchos and then Bibby Line. Henry Pyle was master of Bibby'se M/V Ocean Bridge when he was killed in explosion on board in 1971.

Do you have any photos of the Romanby or any other information that could lead us to the other ships these men served on?

Cheers,
John Stubbs

gdynia
11th July 2007, 11:37
John

Send me a PM with a contact email address and will forward you the Romanby photograph

Billy1963
11th July 2007, 11:55
From my book "Ropners Navy"

".........Romanby would be sunk alongside the quay partially loaded with iron ore. The captured crew from Romanby were later force marched to the neutral border of Sweden in severe cold weather which resulted in one member of the crew suffering from frost bite. Once at the border the men were released. After spending two years as internees in Gothenburg thirteen of Romanby’s crew including her Master Captain Harry Nicholson joined two Norwegian Merchant ships in an attempt to run the German blockade and try to deliver her vital cargo of special steels and ball-barings to Britian in a ten ship convoy codenamed “Operation Performance” which sailed on 31st March 1942. Hugging the Swedish coast within the three mile limit until such time as they thought it safe, the ships suddenly made a dash across the North Sea under the cover of a fog bank. Unfortunately the fog bank lifted and the convoy came under attack from German forces in which five ships were sunk, one scuttled, two returned to Gothenburg while the remaining two reached Britain safely. The thirteen men from Romanby were picked up by a German armed trawler and locked in the fish hold without food for two days until landed at Frederickshaven. They were eventually sent to the Merchant Navy prisoner of war camp Marine Internierten Lager (which was christened Milag Nord by the inhabitants) in Germany for the duration of the war until the camp was finally liberated on the 28th April 1945. Romanby’s Captain Nicholson died in the camp in 1942.........."

Andrew Pyle PoW No. 636. Dis. A. No. A839727 PYLE A 11/02/1902 NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE. His Seamans Pouch is held at The National Archives at Kew in BT372/2948/149. By clicking on the link below and hitting the "request this" button you can apply for these files online using the TNA Digital Express service, costing £8.50 for up to 10 pages of documents sent to your computer within 24 hours. If no records are found there is no charge. These Seamans Pouches are hit and miss and do not always contain much information.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-3834895&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CPYLE%2CA&accessmethod=0

His full service record should be held in:

1941 to 1972 Fifth Register of Merchant Seaman's Service

These records are held at The National Archives in classification BT 382. The Fifth Register of Seaman’s Service 1941 to 1972.

Records of individual Merchant Seamen's sea service details are held in alphabetical surname order. These details include the following information: Name of seaman, Date and place of birth, Discharge (Seaman’s) book number, Rank, Details of the ships on which he served. These include:

Name of ship and official number, date of engagement (Joining ship), Date of discharge (Leaving ship), whether ship was a foreign going of home trade vessel, and records in some cases National Insurance contributions. Details shown in these records are similar to those contained in an individual seaman's discharge book.

Go to this link and follow the same procedure as for his Seaman's Pouch

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=6&CATID=8124769&SearchInit=4&CATREF=bt382%2F1464

PLEASE NOTE!!! you will need to add as much detail as possible in your request for his service file, such as age, date and place of birth & Dis. A. No. etc. as these files are held in block.

Stubbsy5050
11th July 2007, 13:09
Billy,

What can I say?

Huge Thanks,
John

S/V Alchemy
24th October 2007, 00:45
[FONT=Times New Roman]I am hoping to compile a Book of Remembrance detailing the loss of the 70 Ropner ships during WWI & II including the 650 names I have of those who died. To accompany this I am looking for photos of the ships named below. Before I start having to pay the expensive prices at GMM and other places I am asking if anyone reading this has any they could either send me or scan at a high resolution.

SS DALEBY, 4,640grt. Torpedoed and sunk by U-89 on the 4th November 1942.

Hello, I've just joined as just on pure chance I entered the name of this vessel in Google. My father, who died a year ago this week, was in the MN 1941-52 starting at the age of 16 as the MN seemed a reasonable alternative to the Blitz. While the logic of that might be debated, he had a very lucky war as his ships were never torpedoed, only strafed.

I don't currently have access to what I recall was his "discharge book", so I don't know if served on the Daleby, only that he mentioned "jumping ship" twice during the war, and that the ships he had left had both been sunk with all hands.

However, what I am currently staring at on the wall of my office is a full-colour 11 x 14" oil painting of "M/V Daleby". The ship's paint scheme is green hull, white cove stripe, white superstructure and dark yellow deck cranes, with a single funnel with a red and white checkerboard emblem. It agrees strongly with a postcard (presumably pre-war) I found being vended on eBay. This small painting is quite well-done, if as I assume by an amateur, and has the signature "H. Trane (or Crane), London, 1950"

If you wish, I can scan this and post it. If I can find my father's records of his MN service, I can figure out if this is representative of the types of frieghters on which he crewed, or the actual ship on which he would have been prior to its sinking.

I know he was in Lisbon during '42 as a 17-year-old, because that is apparently where he got the rose and anchor tattoo he bore on his forearm until the end of his days.

Baltic Wal
24th October 2007, 10:43
Alchemy

The painting that you are looking at is most likely to be the DALEBY built in 1950. She was built for the new UK Gulf of Mexico that Ropner's were trying to start up. The green hull was, I believe, introduced after the war when Ropner's wanted to move away from being primarily tramp ships.

If your painting has a hatch between the bridge and the funnel, also a tall funnel rather than a Motor ship type funnel, then I am wrong.

Billy1963
24th October 2007, 12:30
The Ropner Co. had 3 ships named Daleby, with the first two being lost in WWI & II. As Baltic mentioned the Green colour scheme was introduced just after the war. The Co. house flag of red and white checks with the logo R. R. & Co. which occupied the four corners of the flag were removed and later replaced by the family coat of arms consisting of a black and yellow shield with three stars and three stags heads within the shield. During 1946 the biggest change came when the Co. decided to break into the passenger/cargo liner service between Europe and the US Gulf of Mexico and so was born the Ropner Line, which was to be run by Robert Ropner Jnr, with the help of a Mr. Bill Gidley from the Company London Office. The first of these new ships Daleby (3) would be launched in 1950, followed by four more Deerpool (2), Somersby (3), Swiftpool (2) & Troutpool (3) over the coming years.

DALEBY (1), 3,628grt, built 1900 (Ropner & Son, Stockton) for the R. Ropner & Co. 1916 registered under the Sir R. Ropner & Co. Ltd. 1917 War Loss.

DALEBY (2), 4,640grt, built 1929 (Armstrong, Whitworth & Co., Newcastle) as KITTY TAYLOR. 1934 purchased by Ropner from Eros Steamships and renamed DALEBY. 1942 War Loss.

DALEBY (3), 5,171grt, built 1950 (Sir J. Laing & Sons, Sunderland) for the Ropner Shipping Co. Ltd. 1961 sold to Jugoslavenska Oceanska Plovidba and renamed KUPRES. 1972 scrapped at Split.

lakercapt
24th October 2007, 20:13
Sailed on Daleby(3) as my last trip as apprentice.
Did go to the US Gulf but alas the trade ( and passenger) traffic did not increase and it ceased shortly there after (1956)
The Deerpool was a sister ship.
Really too slow as full speed in good weather was onl 12.5 knots.
Bill

S/V Alchemy
25th October 2007, 00:09
Gentlemen, the speed and the depth of your answers is impressive indeed. I had no idea that there was a post-war "Daleby" and this vessel answers the description.

It is therefore quite likely than my father served on this ship when it was new, probably in the position of third or second mate. His name was Peter G. Dacey, and although he was born in Cardiff, he would've likely given his "home port" as London.

Thanks to the 21st century, I've been able to shoot and upload fairly quickly a shot of my painting. I realize it's outside the topic of its thread, but perhaps it will stir a few memories! Thanks for your help.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/rhysdarkstar/124_2499.jpg

Billy1963
25th October 2007, 11:38
Sailed on Daleby(3) as my last trip as apprentice.
Did go to the US Gulf but alas the trade ( and passenger) traffic did not increase and it ceased shortly there after (1956)
The Deerpool was a sister ship.
Really too slow as full speed in good weather was onl 12.5 knots.
Bill

From my unpublished book "Ropners Navy"

".......Guy Ropner who at the time was President of the Chamber of Shipping stated in an earlier speech that the Ropner Co. if using North Continental ports to discharge could save around three weeks delays at the cost of £20.000 after just two of their ships had been stuck on the Mersey due to industrial action. The Ropner ships that were involved in the US Gulf Line trade, he added were losing one round trip each a year on the sole basis of British port delays......."

"........By 1957 while at its peak it was announced the Ropner Gulf Line was to be discontinued. Although still in a competitive market, new overseas competition was becoming fiercer and a further series of crushing strikes in British ports lead to Jock Ropner announcing to the shareholders the decision to fold while at it’s height of success. The ships of the Gulf Line were integrated into the Ropner tramp fleet and gave good service up until the last one was sold in 1964, apart from the Somersby (3) which was sold in 1958 to the British Admiralty and converted into an Air Store Support Ship, serving the Royal Fleet Auxiliary for nearly twenty years......."

lakercapt
25th October 2007, 14:01
Yes S.V. ALCHEMY that was the "Daleby" I sailed on in 1956.
She was on th US Gulf run (called into Miami too)
Certainly a big change from the other two Ropner "Ocean" boats that I had done all of my other apprentceship time on(Two trips)
Bill

S/V Alchemy
25th October 2007, 20:14
Yes S.V. ALCHEMY that was the "Daleby" I sailed on in 1956.
She was on th US Gulf run (called into Miami too)
Certainly a big change from the other two Ropner "Ocean" boats that I had done all of my other apprentceship time on(Two trips)
Bill

My father's records are in storage, but I recall he mentioned one particular post-war ship on which he worked that was so superior to any other on which he had been in terms of accommodations, space, gear, etc., that to him it was like a "luxury liner". Perhaps it was this ship.

Of course, luxury is relative. He emigrated to Canada because he couldn't bear post-war British civilian rationing (he only worked shoreside in Britain for 18 months or so before heading to Canada in '54). Having worked from '41 to '52 entirely on merchant ships, he was used to three square meals and earning same. Canada had no rationing in the '50s and took any Brit with a pulse, which is why I bear dual citizenship today!

Oh, and Billy1963, your research is very impressive. I hope you haven't injured your lungs working with so many dusty documents!

David Wilcockson
25th October 2007, 20:36
8490
Billy1963
World Ship Society brought out this version around 1974.
David

Billy1963
27th October 2007, 11:52
Thanks Dave,

Have a copy of the WSS publucation. I used it to cross reference material I had found from other sources including the 1954 publication of "Ropner's Record" and Ian Dears 1986 book "The Ropner Story" My book covers the details and fate of all their ships from 1866 to 1997 when sold to Jacobs Holdings. This also includes the fate detailing all the companies war losses including the names of all those killed.

joller6
27th February 2008, 23:29
Anyone have a Pic of the foillowing Ship.
Trying to locate it for someone.
Many Thanks for any help on Picture (All other info i allready have)
joller6

Fort Pelly "Cargo No: 1168346 Year: 1942 "
Tons: 7130
Owner as Completed: Ministry of War Tpt, London
Disposal Data:
ac/b off Augusta 20.7.43

Billy1963
28th February 2008, 12:04
Have been collecting photo's of Ropner ships for a number of years and Fort Pelly is one I am still searching for. All the most reliable sources can not come up with one and to be honest the ship was only 11 month old when sunk, so I doubt one does exist at all.

I have digital copies of her last crew list and contact with one of the survivors if interested.

dom
28th February 2008, 12:40
Billy1963, not sure if the Troutpool[3] was built for the US Gulf run, as far as can remember the first 6 months or so was on the coal run States/Europe,could be wrong,after that she was away for two years ,Japan/States /Peru /Japan/gulf,mind you she did have a grand staircase

Billy1963
29th February 2008, 14:55
Hello Dom,

The five ships built for the Gulf Line were, Daleby (3) Deerpool (2), Somersby (3), Swiftpool (2) & Troutpool (3)

Neumann
30th August 2008, 10:31
The CRITON was sunk by AIR FRANCE 4 (Vichy French) in company with EDITH GERMAINE (Vichy French) on 21 June 1941, by gunfire.

HMS CILICIA stopped and captured CRITON on 9 May 1941, and escorted her into Freetown. CRITON had carried a cargo of shells to replenish the garrison shore-batteries at Dakar following de Gaulle's abortive raid. CRITON's French captain had her extensively sabotaged en route for Freetown, and even tried to ram CILICIA in Freetown roads. Some of CRITON's French crew were pro-British, but most were very anti, including her captain (Capt Illisbule). In Freetown, the RN appointed Ropner's as managers, despite the fact that she had not been through a prize court, and CRITON was crewed by a scratch crew of volunteers who were all looking for a rapid means of returning to the UK having recently lost their own ships - for example, my father (Peter de Neumann, GM, later Captain) was due to be married and was trying to get home quickly, signed on as her Second Officer. CRITON sailed in convoy SL78, but could not maintain convoy speed due to the sabotage, and was ordered back to Freetown at noon on 20 June by the convoy escort, HMS ESPERANCE BAY. On the morning of the 21 June, she was intercepted by Vichy warships AIR FRANCE 4 and EDITH GERMAINE, and after refusing to stop and go into Conakry, she was fired upon by AIR FRANCE 4 from a range of only about 50 yards. AF4 fired 45 shells into CRITON along her waterline, some shells narrowly missing my father's boat, which was being launched on the far-side (and therefore invisible) from AF4). Captain Dobeson was the last to leave CRITON, but fell into my father's boat and badly injured himself. Apart this no one suffered more than bruising and shock. Her crew were taken prisoner and charged and convicted of piracy by a Vichy French Naval Court Martial which then imprisoned them successively in Conakry, Timbuctoo, and Kankan. They were eventually released when Vichy West Africa changed allegiance to the Allies in December 1942. Four of the crew died whilst prisoners and are buried in West Africa. There are two MN British war graves in Timbuctoo that are tended regularly.

Captain Gerald Dobeson, CRITON's Master, received a King's Commendation for Brave Conduct.

CRITON crew who died (note they were not foreign nationals):

William Freeman - 19 November 1942.
Douglas Hyland - 16 January 1943.
Jack Savage - 10 September 1941.
William T. Williams (Striker) - 20 August 1942.

The following two from ALLENDE died and are buried in Timbuctoo. They were briefly imprisoned with CRITON's crew following ALLENDE's loss on 17 March 1942:

John Graham - 2 May 1942. Allende
William Soutter - 28 May 1942. Allende

CRITON's entire crew list follows:

CREW LIST OF THE CRITON

RANK NAME PREVIOUS SHIP

Captain Dobeson, G.T. WRAY CASTLE
Chief Officer Chalmers, R.L. BENVENUE
2nd Officer de Neumann, B.P. TEWKESBURY, EXHIBITOR, HMS CILICIA
3rd Officer Christie, J.W. BENVENUE
Token Prize Crew Stretton, S.K. HMS QUEEN OF BERMUDA
Chief Engineer Clear, N.T. BRITISH GRENADIER
2nd Engineer Francis, S. WRAY CASTLE
3rd Engineer Armstrong, J. BRITISH GRENADIER
4th Engineer Taylor, A.L. BENVRACKIE
1st Radio Officer Carter, R. JHELUM
2nd Radio Officer Whalley, G.A. MEMNON
3rd Radio Officer Johnson, P. MEMNON
Chief Steward Robert, L.C. BRITISH GRENADIER
2nd Steward Gregory, H.A. BRITISH GRENADIER
3rd Steward Hyland, D. BRITISH GRENADIER
Cabin Boy Vaughan, G.C. TWEED
Bosun Macleod, D. BRITISH GRENADIER
Carpenter Ago (Burton) BRITISH GRENADIER
Cook Oliver, R. TWEED
Sailors Hunter, A. BRITISH GRENADIER
Ancharonain, P.M. WILLIAM WILBERFORCE
Frost, T.W. BRITISH GRENADIER
Lloyd, J. BRITISH GRENADIER
Taylor, A. (Lewis Gunner?) WILLIAM WILBERFORCE
Thomson, J. BRITISH GRENADIER
Holsman, M. BRITISH GRENADIER
Young, L. TEWKESBURY
Wheatley, J. BRITISH GRENADIER
Prentice, R.J. BENVRACKIE
Beresford, J. (Lewis Gunner ) WILLIAM WILBERFORCE (paid off at Freetown)
Birdsell, L. (Lewis Gunner ) WILLIAM WILBERFORCE (paid off at Freetown)
Nott, A. (Lewis Gunner ) TUNISIA (paid off at Freetown)

All below natives from Freetown.
Sailor Bounbouctar, A.

Cook Mane, S

Greasers Campbell, J.
Korka, M.
Chryser, E.
Savage, J.

Firemen Brainard, C
Dixon, S
Freeman
Dickson
Williams, G
Williams, G
Deen, N
Caba, F
Sams, W
Johnson, P
Parmar, P
Camara, A
Sanes, J
Thomas, M

Stowaway Michel, T

eriskay
30th November 2008, 19:17
Hi, Billy 1963 :

I am a relatively new member and slowly catching up, so excuse the belated posting.

In 1940 my late father and his younger brother served as ABs on 1937-built 'Danby' and 1929-built 'Haxby', respectively, both products of the Wm. Gray Shipyard of West Hartlepool. At that time my father was 20 years of age, his brother 18 years old.

My father joined S.S. Danby at Glasgow on 19 Dec 1939 and remain ed on her until he discharged at Swansea on 25th may 1940.

My uncle joined S.S. Haxby at Glasgow on 29th March 1940 and the ship sailed from the Clyde, in convoy, on 8th April 1940, bound lightship for Corpus Christi in the Gulf of Mexico.

As you will know, S.S. Haxby was the first British merchantman to fall foul of the silent menace of the enemy armed surface raider, in this case the 7,021 tons ex-German freighter 'Kurmark', now Hilfkreuzer Schiff 36, under her new name of 'Orion'. On 24th April 1940, in a position East of Bermuda, 'Orion' attacked and sank the British freighter, which had failed to obey an instruction not to transmit from her radio, and failed to stop her engines, causing the Raider to launch an aggressive attack that last less than 10 minutes and resulted in the loss of 16 of the British vessel's complement.

The remaining survivors, 24 men, including Captain Cornelius Arundel of Sunderland, were picked up by the Raider's boats and made POWs on board the Raider. In due course, after 68 days captive on the raider, they were transferred from the raider to the Norwegian vessel Tropic Sea, which had been taken as prize by 'Orion', and was sailed back for German-occupied France under a German prize crew.

Happily, after 65 days spent on board the prize ship, and almost finished the long haul from the South Pacific to France, the Tropic Sea was spotted in the Bay of Biscay by the British submarine HMS Truant on 3rd September 1940, exactly one year to the day from the outbreak of WWII. Lt. Cmdr. Haggard was sixth-sense- suspicious of the foreign vessel and ordered her to stop. The Germans realised it was a hopless situation, ordered everyone on board to abandon and set scuttling charges.

All 24 'Haxby' survivors, along with the Norwegian vessel's original Captain and his wife, were taken back to Gibraltar on board 'Truant', in somewhat cramped conditions. A Sunderland seaplane came back to rescure the other Norwegian crewmembers.

Captain Arundel and his crew were duly repatriated from Gibraltar on board the steamer 'Petrel', arriving back in the UK at the beginning of October 1960, some four and a half months after their ship was lost.

I have a few items that might be of interest to you, e,g, letters from Ropner & Coy to my grandmother, newspaper items, etc. Should these be of interest let me know and I will scan and copy them to you and you can select what might be of use to you.

Meantime, I would be interested in ordering a copy of the work you produced on Sir R. Ropner & Company war losses, so if still available would appreciate if you could provide details of cost and how to go about getting a copy.

Many thanks,

Angus Mac Kinnon
(Ayrshire, Scotland)

cabopeñas
30th November 2008, 20:47
"Vasilios Detounis" was abandoned Biscayne Bay. On the broad chest of the Atlanticthe tramp steamer was at first only aspeck to the German bomber crew.
Tow lines were fixed and slowly they struggled home with her to the
port of Aviles, in Spain. by two fisshing vesels ( on of them my grandfather)
I need know about this ships, crew names, possible from argostolis, Kefalonia
Tks

diverdad
30th November 2008, 23:31
Billy, well done for all the work you have done on this subject.
I can't wait until your research is complete, can you tell me when your book/s are due to be published?

I have a question, I know of a shipwreck up past Blyth called SS Upcerne which is a Ropner built ship.
It was sunk by German sub UC-40 on 28/04/1918 with the loss of 16 lives.
I am sorry but I do not have any pictures of this vessel but I do have some plans for it if you are interested?
Are you going to put this one on the list too?

Regards
Lee

Billy1963
7th December 2008, 14:24
Billy, well done for all the work you have done on this subject.
I can't wait until your research is complete, can you tell me when your book/s are due to be published?

I have a question, I know of a shipwreck up past Blyth called SS Upcerne which is a Ropner built ship.
It was sunk by German sub UC-40 on 28/04/1918 with the loss of 16 lives.
I am sorry but I do not have any pictures of this vessel but I do have some plans for it if you are interested?
Are you going to put this one on the list too?

Regards
Lee

Hello Lee,

Although the SS Upcerne was built in Ropner's Stockton yard, the ship was owned by the Minterne SS Co. Ltd, so is not included in my book. The book details just the ships owned and managed by the Ropner & Pool Shipping from 1874-1997 (including ships from the Appleby & Ropner Co.)


Rgds Billy

Billy1963
8th December 2008, 12:13
Unfortunately some of the powers that be on this site inform me I can not tell you how to buy my book as it is deemed as advertising and have removed my posting informing Lee and Angus on how to purchase the book.

eriskay
9th December 2008, 21:39
Tried to e-mail you, Billy 1963, but when I clicked on it, it indicated this was not on. I then tried to PM you, but I don't think the message transmitted and I don't know how to tell one way or another. Anyway, what I was basically asking was whether there was anyway of knowing how to going about ordering a copy of your book but without breaching the site rules and regulations or any other protocols. I will try 'googling' it, see where that gets me. Really would like a copy given our strong family connections with Ropner Shipping.

Angus Mac Kinnon

eriskay
9th December 2008, 22:12
Billy 1963 :

Okay - Google worked, matters now in hand !

eriskay
9th December 2008, 22:47
Unfortunately some of the powers that be on this site inform me I can not tell you how to buy my book as it is deemed as advertising and have removed my posting informing Lee and Angus on how to purchase the book.

Tough call. Given the passion with which the membership hold all maritime-related things on this amazing site, it is a great pity that information on new material or knowledge has to be restricted in this manner, as this is the very forum where one is likely to first learn of its availability. Understand the policy being protected here is the avoidance of advertising, where commercial gain is a part or sole objective, and that is the prerogative of the 'Management', of course, but it is a shame there does not appear to be some compromise solution that could maintain the site protocols without depriving the membership of info.

I have managed to overcome the problem but not easily, being the Luddite I am, but I absolutely had to have the Blue Flue and Ropner stories, these are very important to me. I suppose if a Luddite can manage it, then the clever ones will overcome the problem even easier! Ho Hum !

Angus

benjidog
9th December 2008, 23:26
Angus,

I have made a few suggestions to Billy in a PM which I hope will help. It is unfortunate that you were not able to contact him by PM as that would have solved the problem.

eriskay
9th December 2008, 23:45
Thanks, Brian. I did try to both e-mail and PM Billy, but to no avail, reason unknown. As I said in a subsequent message - which has magically disappeared in the last hour (!) - I found the route out of the problem. I suspect I have been censored for naming the route, otherwise where did my message go to? It was there a while ago, it immediately followed my 22:47 hrs posting. My missus can make my wages disappear with the same efficiency!

Apologies - I'm losing it, just found the 'missing' message at the foot of Page 2 of 3 ! (Slinks off in disgrace, muttering incoherently to self, shaking head ......)

Ron Stringer
10th December 2008, 08:44
I'm sorry, but this correspondence is confusing me. I cannot see what objection anyone can have to a member posting details of a maritime experiences/history book for sale and how it can be purchased. Especially when the site has produced a forum http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=15001 specifically for the advertising of items with connections to ships and nostalgia. What is the difference between this book and that of, for example, Tony Sprigings' book? Surely it can't be connected with the former MN rank of the author? Maybe it is because the book is not about Blue Flue or Brocklebanks.[=P]

Billy McGee is a highly respected contributor to maritime history, a great source of information about Ropner's vessels and an activist on affording proper recognition for the contributions to Britain of its merchant navy. He surely deserves better treatment from this site.

BillH
10th December 2008, 09:56
I'm sorry, but this correspondence is confusing me. I cannot see what objection anyone can have to a member posting details of a maritime experiences/history book for sale and how it can be purchased. Especially when the site has produced a forum http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=15001 specifically for the advertising of items with connections to ships and nostalgia. What is the difference between this book and that of, for example, Tony Sprigings' book? Surely it can't be connected with the former MN rank of the author? Maybe it is because the book is not about Blue Flue or Brocklebanks.[=P]

Billy McGee is a highly respected contributor to maritime history, a great source of information about Ropner's vessels and an activist on affording proper recognition for the contributions to Britain of its merchant navy. He surely deserves better treatment from this site.
Ron,

It was not just this book that was removed. The entire threads for books on Blue Funnel, Cayzer Irvine and Kelly of Belfast were also ruthlessly removed despite the fact that one at least contained historical information about the company generated through discussion about a potential book and that was not about the book.

Bill

K urgess
10th December 2008, 11:34
The classified section is purely for the exchange or sale of the odd item for members it is NOT for advertising commercially available items.
Your link, Ron, leads directly to the guidelines for the forum which I find self-explanatory.

Both Billy McGee's and BillH's posts come under the category of commercially available publications and they have a direct interest in the sale of their products. As such any mention by them of content, price or source is considered advertising and not acceptable. Even if their intent is purely innocent.

The fact that a member is writing a book on the subject soon becomes evident and the simple solution is a PM to find out where to get it or when it will be available. That is private and between members not in open forum.

You mostly don't see the members who join and then blast the site with advertising for mobile phones and other less mentionable merchandise because Admin and us Mods are very quick off the mark.

If a member, who is in no way connected to the author, the publisher,the printer or the retailer, wishes to recommend the book after reading it then that is perfectly legitimate to post details and availability. But if it's proved at any time that there is a direct link there will be problems. We have had to sort out similair occurrences in the past.

The Memsahib and I deal in books but I would never even mention that I have a book for sale or where to find our website. I would not even give a link to a book search if it were to result in a listing of any our books for sale.

There is a forum for books etc., which is the area for book recommendations.

I hope this goes some way to explain why a public forum has to have rules for this sort of thing. Charitable works can be different but if in doubt a PM or email to Admin is the safest course of action.

Cheers
Kris

Ron Stringer
10th December 2008, 16:24
Kris,

I don't have any axe to grind but I feel this is a little like the discussions about angels and pinheads. I purposely pointed to the Classified section, since that is an even more blatant example of people offering goods for sale, the vast majority of which do nothing to contribute to the general fund of knowledge about what went on in ships during and after the war (topics which, I suggest, are reasons that many members log onto the site).

I could have listed the books, magazines and publications forum, where members post enquiries and information about books, advise where they can be bought, and often include price information. You have been a contributor to that forum, often giving advice (in response to enquiries from members) where a requested book is on offer. You have not pointed anyone in the direction of your own books, but I would not take offence if you did. I feel that the difference between promoting the work of one person (probably a non-contributor to this site) rather than another, who is a member and contributor to the site, is rather too highly academic for me to appreciate. I don't see how it is OK for a member to recommend and post details (publisher, ISBN and price) of Rear-Admiral Fortescue-Smythe's memoirs of his time spent winning World War 2 from a desk in Whitehall but completely taboo to allow that same member to post the details of his own book.

After all the site owners and moderators are not responsible for, or making any recommendation as to the quality or value of, the book. As long as it is clear that the person offering the book has connections to the publication concerned (as was clearly the case with Billy McGee and his own book), and as long as the author is not running a publicity campaign by means of Ships Nostalgia, I cannot see what harm is done by permitting members to post the details of their efforts (whether they be books, CDs, paintings, ships in bottles or models).

Someone is being over-sensitive and possibly resenting affording someone a little free publicity. But since so much of the content of the site is provided for free by the members, for the site to resent someone else getting something for nothing seems rather mean-spirited. It must be the times we live in.

My view. But it isn't my site and I don't have an alternative to offer so I must go with the site ruling.

albymo
16th December 2008, 19:59
If you are near any of the following ask to see their Merchant Navy Book of Remembrance that I have produced, it contains all the names of personnel, Merchant crews plus Naval and Army gunners that lost their lives at sea in the last war. Contains by ship name details of loss and how survivors were rescued plus all the names, otherwise contact me.
Imperial War Museum
Greenwich Museum
Merseyside Maritime Museum
National Memorial Arboretum

Hi
I have been looking for information on my uncle ALBERT ETHERINGTON who was in the merchant navy and lost at sea before 1941, acording to family members,this all i know of him,he was born in Oldham 1912 3Qtr,but family moved to Wallasey a few years later,as his brother my dad George Etherington was born there in July 1915,they both went to sea Able seaman I believe,in your list of names "lost at sea" by any chance does he show up? I have been looking for about 5 years for him,but not a thing has turned up,thanks

All the best

Albert Etherington-----------------Canada

benjidog
16th December 2008, 21:41
Hi
I have been looking for information on my uncle ALBERT ETHERINGTON who was in the merchant navy and lost at sea before 1941, acording to family members,this all i know of him,he was born in Oldham 1912 3Qtr,but family moved to Wallasey a few years later,as his brother my dad George Etherington was born there in July 1915,they both went to sea Able seaman I believe,in your list of names "lost at sea" by any chance does he show up? I have been looking for about 5 years for him,but not a thing has turned up,thanks

All the best

Albert Etherington-----------------Canada

There is nobody of that name recorded on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site.

You say he was lost at sea before 1941 - that could mean he was lost during peace time and would not show up in that way. I think you will need to try and find out more about what ships he served on to make much headway.

albymo
17th December 2008, 18:37
Hi Brian
Thanks for the reply,I have a list of ships that my dad sailed on, and I am trying to come up with crew/agg lists on them,hoping to find my uncle that way,as they did sail together on some ships,I recieved some info where to find it from Hugh on Merchantile Marine, on 5 of them the info is here in NFLD Canada,and 2 0thers Blue Funnel ships are in TNA so I am looking into them, the others I am thinking of making a trip there next summer? again thanks for your reply

AL Etherington ---------------Canada

wakokid
9th January 2009, 23:35
Just been delivered my father's Seaman's Pouch from the National Archives.

It would seem he first ship was the Hindpool but I am not sure whether he was on it when it was sunk.

Family history says he was sunk and survived twice - the initial thoughts are that it could have been the Hindpool and La Cordillera.

First off, does anyone know the names of the twelve survivors from the Hindpool picked up by HMS Faulknor and the SS Guido or if not how I can find out.

Thanks in anticipation

Hugh MacLean
10th January 2009, 12:00
Hello again,
HINDPOOL official number 139256 built in 1928 for R Ropner & Co.
You would need the final crew agreement for HINDPOOL which should be held at the National Archives, Kew. in piece BT 381/1337 (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8197304&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2C139256&accessmethod=0)
Ask for "the final crew agreement for HINDPOOL official number 139256"

There is a list of the 28 who lost their lives in Billy's book: "Ropner's Navy" and with the aid of the last crew agreement you can work out who the 12 survivors were.

Regards

Billy1963
10th January 2009, 12:11
Copy of the Hindpool's 1941 Log Book & Crew Agreements are held at Kew in BT381/1337 under the ships Official No. 139256. By clicking on the link below and hitting the "request this" link, then follow instructions on how to order and pay for. Make sure you ask for her last crew list before she was lost. You can then cross reference the names to find the survivors by elimanating the casulaties listed below listed in my book "Ropner's Navy"

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8197304&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2C139256&accessmethod=0

ASHTON, First Radio Officer, THOMAS DONALD, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 39. Son of Joseph and Rebecca Ashton, of Hull; husband of Margaret D. Ashton, of Statfield, Lossiemouth, Morayshire.

DUNCAN, Greaser, WILLIAM, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 47. Husband of Mary A. Duncan, of Winlaton, Co. Durham.

DUNN, Sailor, WILLIAM, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 19. Son of Edward and J. H. Dunn, of North Shields, Northumberland.

FERGUSON, Third Engineer Officer, THOMAS RICHARDSON, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 45. Son of John James Ferguson and Jane Ferguson; husband of Margaret Lizzie Ferguson, of West Hartlepool, Co. Durham.

FINLAY, Boy, GEORGE, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 16.

GALE, Mess Room Boy, LEONARD HAROLD, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 17.

GREEN, Boy, WILLIAM HALL, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 20.

IRVIN, Chief Engineer Officer, GEORGE, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 59.

JENSEN, Fireman and Trimmer, OLAF, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 28.

LEWIS, Second Engineer Officer, WILLIAM DOUGLAS, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 28. Son of Ernest and Hilda Mary Lewis, of West Hartlepool, Co. Durham; husband of Hilda Lewis, of West Hartlepool.

MALLEN, Greaser, EDWARD, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 41. Son of Edward and Winifred Mallen, of Sunderland, Co. Durham.

MATTHEWS, Second Officer, HAROLD, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 22. Son of Arthur and Jennie Matthews, of Winton, Lancashire.

MOONEY, Able Seaman, HENRY, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 25. Son of Henry and Annie Mooney, of West Chirton, North Shields, Northumberland.

MacLEAN, Fireman and Trimmer, JOHN, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 42. Son of Hector MacLean, and of Catherine MacLean (nee MacKinnon); husband of Hannah MacLean, of Oban, Argyllshire.

McDONALD, Fireman and Trimmer, JOSEPH GRAY, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 25. Son of Richard and Jane McDonald; husband of Edna McDonald, of Preston, North Shields, Northumberland.

O'DONOVAN, Third Officer, JEREMIAH DAVID JOSEPH, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 28.

POWER, Donkeyman, P. S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. (Canadian)

REGNELL, Boatswain, JOHN EDWIN, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 47.

RODGERS, Sailor, DAVID, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 19.

RUTHERFORD, Able Seaman, GEORGE ALLEN HENRY, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 24.

SLATER, Fireman and Trimmer, PERCIVAL, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 23. Son of John Richard and Bessie Slater.

SMITH, Able Seaman, JOHN WILLIAM, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 21.

SMITH, Carpenter, ROBERT WHALEN, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 23. Son of Robert and Susan Smith; husband of Irene Smith, of North Shields, Northumberland.

SMITH, Fireman and Trimmer, WILLIAM, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 26. Son of Mrs. E. Smith, of North Shields, Northumberland.

TINNOCK, Master, MALCOLM VERNON ALLT, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 30. Son of Alexander Tinnock, and of Ada Elizabeth Tinnock, of Torquay, Devon.

TOZER, Fireman and Trimmer, CYRIL, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 40. Son of Benjamin and Florence Tozer; husband of Elizabeth Tozer, of Mallaig, Inverness-shire.

WEBBER, Fireman and Trimmer, WALTER RICHARD, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 40. Husband of E. Webber, of North Shields, Northumberland.

YELLAND, Ordinary Seaman, ENOCH, S.S. Hindpool (West Hartlepool). Merchant Navy. 8th March 1941. Age 19. Son of Mr. and Mrs. G. Yelland, of North Shields, Northumberland.

Billy1963
10th January 2009, 14:40
Hi
I have been looking for information on my uncle ALBERT ETHERINGTON who was in the merchant navy and lost at sea before 1941, acording to family members,this all i know of him,he was born in Oldham 1912 3Qtr,but family moved to Wallasey a few years later,as his brother my dad George Etherington was born there in July 1915,they both went to sea Able seaman I believe,in your list of names "lost at sea" by any chance does he show up? I have been looking for about 5 years for him,but not a thing has turned up,thanks

All the best

Albert Etherington-----------------Canada

It is also possible he died in an accident or from illness, while at sea. If so he would be recorded in the Deaths at Sea Register in BT334 held at Kew

At present I am in possession of the full Deaths at Sea Register covering 1939-1945. I have recently undertaken the task of compiling the Deaths at Sea Register 1939-1945 for the National MNA covering all those omitted from the CWGC remit whose deaths were not war related. The files are being typed up by myself into Excel. Doc. from digital photos of every page acquired by the MNA covering the war years. The idea is to have these men given some sort of recognition alongside those from the three armed services who were granted war grave status no matter how their deaths occurred. Quite a daunting task as I have over 4,000 pages of which 50% contain 20 names on each page of those lost at sea during this period. I am working on those who died in 1939-1940 and if I come across an Albert Etherington, I will pass on the information to you. The records are indexed by month by ships name, so I am dealing with one page at a time, so this may take some time.

albymo
5th February 2009, 18:42
It is also possible he died in an accident or from illness, while at sea. If so he would be recorded in the Deaths at Sea Register in BT334 held at Kew

At present I am in possession of the full Deaths at Sea Register covering 1939-1945. I have recently undertaken the task of compiling the Deaths at Sea Register 1939-1945 for the National MNA covering all those omitted from the CWGC remit whose deaths were not war related. The files are being typed up by myself into Excel. Doc. from digital photos of every page acquired by the MNA covering the war years. The idea is to have these men given some sort of recognition alongside those from the three armed services who were granted war grave status no matter how their deaths occurred. Quite a daunting task as I have over 4,000 pages of which 50% contain 20 names on each page of those lost at sea during this period. I am working on those who died in 1939-1940 and if I come across an Albert Etherington, I will pass on the information to you. The records are indexed by month by ships name, so I am dealing with one page at a time, so this may take some time.

Hi Billy
thanks,not sure if I answered you about some where else.
you are doing a great job,again many thanks

AL Etherington---------Canada

ozires
13th November 2010, 01:05
The CRITON was sunk by AIR FRANCE 4 (Vichy French) in company with EDITH GERMAINE (Vichy French) on 21 June 1941, by gunfire.

HMS CILICIA stopped and captured CRITON on 9 May 1941, and escorted her into Freetown. CRITON had carried a cargo of shells to replenish the garrison shore-batteries at Dakar following de Gaulle's abortive raid. CRITON's French captain had her extensively sabotaged en route for Freetown, and even tried to ram CILICIA in Freetown roads. Some of CRITON's French crew were pro-British, but most were very anti, including her captain (Capt Illisbule). In Freetown, the RN appointed Ropner's as managers, despite the fact that she had not been through a prize court, and CRITON was crewed by a scratch crew of volunteers who were all looking for a rapid means of returning to the UK having recently lost their own ships - for example, my father (Peter de Neumann, GM, later Captain) was due to be married and was trying to get home quickly, signed on as her Second Officer. CRITON sailed in convoy SL78, but could not maintain convoy speed due to the sabotage, and was ordered back to Freetown at noon on 20 June by the convoy escort, HMS ESPERANCE BAY. On the morning of the 21 June, she was intercepted by Vichy warships AIR FRANCE 4 and EDITH GERMAINE, and after refusing to stop and go into Conakry, she was fired upon by AIR FRANCE 4 from a range of only about 50 yards. AF4 fired 45 shells into CRITON along her waterline, some shells narrowly missing my father's boat, which was being launched on the far-side (and therefore invisible) from AF4). Captain Dobeson was the last to leave CRITON, but fell into my father's boat and badly injured himself. Apart this no one suffered more than bruising and shock. Her crew were taken prisoner and charged and convicted of piracy by a Vichy French Naval Court Martial which then imprisoned them successively in Conakry, Timbuctoo, and Kankan. They were eventually released when Vichy West Africa changed allegiance to the Allies in December 1942. Four of the crew died whilst prisoners and are buried in West Africa. There are two MN British war graves in Timbuctoo that are tended regularly.

Captain Gerald Dobeson, CRITON's Master, received a King's Commendation for Brave Conduct.

CRITON crew who died (note they were not foreign nationals):

William Freeman - 19 November 1942.
Douglas Hyland - 16 January 1943.
Jack Savage - 10 September 1941.
William T. Williams (Striker) - 20 August 1942.

The following two from ALLENDE died and are buried in Timbuctoo. They were briefly imprisoned with CRITON's crew following ALLENDE's loss on 17 March 1942:

John Graham - 2 May 1942. Allende
William Soutter - 28 May 1942. Allende

CRITON's entire crew list follows:

CREW LIST OF THE CRITON

RANK NAME PREVIOUS SHIP

Captain Dobeson, G.T. WRAY CASTLE
Chief Officer Chalmers, R.L. BENVENUE
2nd Officer de Neumann, B.P. TEWKESBURY, EXHIBITOR, HMS CILICIA
3rd Officer Christie, J.W. BENVENUE
Token Prize Crew Stretton, S.K. HMS QUEEN OF BERMUDA
Chief Engineer Clear, N.T. BRITISH GRENADIER
2nd Engineer Francis, S. WRAY CASTLE
3rd Engineer Armstrong, J. BRITISH GRENADIER
4th Engineer Taylor, A.L. BENVRACKIE
1st Radio Officer Carter, R. JHELUM
2nd Radio Officer Whalley, G.A. MEMNON
3rd Radio Officer Johnson, P. MEMNON
Chief Steward Robert, L.C. BRITISH GRENADIER
2nd Steward Gregory, H.A. BRITISH GRENADIER
3rd Steward Hyland, D. BRITISH GRENADIER
Cabin Boy Vaughan, G.C. TWEED
Bosun Macleod, D. BRITISH GRENADIER
Carpenter Ago (Burton) BRITISH GRENADIER
Cook Oliver, R. TWEED
Sailors Hunter, A. BRITISH GRENADIER
Ancharonain, P.M. WILLIAM WILBERFORCE
Frost, T.W. BRITISH GRENADIER
Lloyd, J. BRITISH GRENADIER
Taylor, A. (Lewis Gunner?) WILLIAM WILBERFORCE
Thomson, J. BRITISH GRENADIER
Holsman, M. BRITISH GRENADIER
Young, L. TEWKESBURY
Wheatley, J. BRITISH GRENADIER
Prentice, R.J. BENVRACKIE
Beresford, J. (Lewis Gunner ) WILLIAM WILBERFORCE (paid off at Freetown)
Birdsell, L. (Lewis Gunner ) WILLIAM WILBERFORCE (paid off at Freetown)
Nott, A. (Lewis Gunner ) TUNISIA (paid off at Freetown)

All below natives from Freetown.
Sailor Bounbouctar, A.

Cook Mane, S

Greasers Campbell, J.
Korka, M.
Chryser, E.
Savage, J.

Firemen Brainard, C
Dixon, S
Freeman
Dickson
Williams, G
Williams, G
Deen, N
Caba, F
Sams, W
Johnson, P
Parmar, P
Camara, A
Sanes, J
Thomas, M

Stowaway Michel, T

I am struggling to find one picture of Criton. I have assembled a massive information on a new website focusing the war in the south Atlantic. www.sixtant.net with all merchants sunk in that theater
Criton and others I am finding very difficult to obtain their pictures. If any colleague know how to get them please let me know. I will be deeply indebted. They are:
BARON SEMPLE – CRITON – DAHOMIAN – ELMDALE - EAST WALES -ELMDENE- ELMWOOD - EMPIRE CROMWELL - EMPIRE HAWK – EMPIRE KOHINOOR – EMPIRE NOMAD – EMPIRE TENNYSON – EMPIRE ZEAL – FORT CHILCOTIN – HAMLA- HAZELSIDE – ILORIN – KINGSTON HILL – KINGSWOOD – KUMSANG – LLANDILO – OCEAN MIGHT – OUED GROU – RABAUL – REEDPOOL – ROBERT HUGHES – SARTHE – SIRE – SOLON II – TOTTENHAM – TOWER GRANGE – TRAFALGAR

Kindest regards.
Capt. ozires Moraes

uncle al
13th November 2010, 12:35
try `googling `the name of the vessel you are looking for. i have found a lot by doing it---best of luck[=P]

peter drake
14th November 2010, 20:35
There is a picture of Reedpool in Billy McGee's book " Ropners Navy "

Pete

patpaul18
24th January 2012, 15:25
Hi i am new so please bare with me i am trying to put together my grandads last days his name was James Gillen he served on the SS Warlaby if any one has a photo of this ship i would be so greatful thankyou Pat

peter drake
24th January 2012, 19:50
Hi Patpaul
Try to get hold of a copy of Billy McGee's book Ropners Navy . There is a picture of Warlaby and mention of James Gilmour. Billy is the fount of all knowledge on Ropners

Pete

patpaul18
25th January 2012, 12:45
Thankyou for that information i will try on ebay Pat