TSMV ”Incomati” “Isipingo” "Inchanga”

RMNSF
23rd January 2012, 14:33
I run the Royal Merchant Navy School Foundation, a British charity, and we own the builder's model of TSMV "Incomati”,“Isipingo” and “Inchanga”. Does anyone have any memorabilia of these ships available?

gadgee
23rd January 2012, 19:01
Welcome to the SN site. These are Bank Line/ Andrew Weir vessels I believe so will move thread there.

Andy Lavies
23rd January 2012, 19:46
I sailed in the Inchanga for 33 months and would love to see a photograph f the models.
Andy

jimthehat
23rd January 2012, 23:27
I sailed for 24 months on the Isipingo and I to would like to see a photo of the model.

jim

Ian Harrod
24th January 2012, 06:08
I run the Royal Merchant Navy School Foundation, a British charity, and we own the builder's model of TSMV "Incomati”,“Isipingo” and “Inchanga”. Does anyone have any memorabilia of these ships available?

If you wait a few days RMNSF, I reckon we could come up with a full crew for you!

Alan Rawlinson
24th January 2012, 11:48
I run the Royal Merchant Navy School Foundation, a British charity, and we own the builder's model of TSMV "Incomati”,“Isipingo” and “Inchanga”. Does anyone have any memorabilia of these ships available?

This is quite an exciting post and find for the Bankline boys...

Please tell us more re the models, i.e. size, condition, and preferably a picture of the Inchanga model for comparison to the photo memories we have.

In answer to your query, there is a lot of small memoribilia among the Bankline stalwarts, such as headed notepaper, and menus, etc..

Many Thanks for the information and the posting

Alan Rawlinson ( ex Inchanga 1951/2)

PS Would you consider selling the Inchanga model?

China hand
24th January 2012, 18:29
Does this last thread not prove the value of this site?
I wonder how many ex-Inchanga or Isipingo (not so many Incomati) members are now slaverring at the mouth.
Great stuff.

gadgee
24th January 2012, 19:25
Gents
RMNSF originally posted this in "other companies" but I am glad that I found it and moved it to here. I have sent him an email and private message in the hope that he will post a reply to you all here.

Alistair Macnab
24th January 2012, 20:13
Count me in as an "Inchanga" enthusiast. I served on her from 1958 to 1960! One of the best ships I ever sailed on. Bay of Bengal to and from east and south Africa calling at Colombo both ways.

Alan Rawlinson
24th January 2012, 20:43
Gents
RMNSF originally posted this in "other companies" but I am glad that I found it and moved it to here. I have sent him an email and private message in the hope that he will post a reply to you all here.

Hallo Paul J.

Many thanks for the initiative in bringing this interesting post to the attention of the Bankline site. As you can see, it has generated much interest. Makes me wonder where all the other shipyard models ended up. Collecting dust in cellars maybe, or adorning the wall in dusty boardrooms...

Cheers/Alan R

Johnnietwocoats
25th January 2012, 03:46
Do we have any photos of the models....?

RMNSF
25th January 2012, 08:09
Gentlemen

First, thank you, Paul J, for moving my post to the right thread little did I think of the interest it would generate!

Second, our model is a shipbuilder's model and in good, if slightly neglected, condition. I don't know how or when we acquired it but it has been on display in a school Library for, certainly, the past 14 years. I'll post a photograph soon but the outline details are that the model is in a glass-sided case measuring (from memory) about 170cm (long) x 40cm (Wide) x 50cm high or, in real money, about 66" x 16" x 18".

The Trustees are prepared to consider selling this model but, as we are a 185yr-old charity continuing to help with the education of the needy British children of Merchant Navy seafarers (see www.merchantnavy.org.uk), the price will have to be right!

More later.

RMNSF

China hand
25th January 2012, 18:34
Wack the price up, Good Sir! It's a worthy cause, and enough pennies hidden away in the White Ship oldies to go for it (Bounce)

RMNSF
25th January 2012, 22:57
Naturally as we're always after donations/funds!
The actual measurements of the glass case are (and my memory wasn't too far wrong):175cm(L) x 44cm(W) x 70cm(H) - photo to follow. RMNSF

David E
25th January 2012, 22:57
Count me in as an "Inchanga" enthusiast. I served on her from 1958 to 1960! One of the best ships I ever sailed on. Bay of Bengal to and from east and south Africa calling at Colombo both ways.

Add me to the list. In her from '50 to '52.My favourite too.A very happy ship.What was it that made the "White Ships"so ?

RMNSF
27th January 2012, 16:09
A photograph of the model is in the Gallery under Cargo Ships.

RMNS

gadgee
27th January 2012, 17:18
Here is a link =

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/315599/title/tsmv-isipingo-2finchanga/cat/500

It has been moved to model ships and very nice it is!

Alistair Macnab
29th January 2012, 18:57
What made the White Ships happy was the fact that they were on a fixed run and one that called at super ports. I have affections for all of them - Durban, Lourenco Marques, Beira, Dar Es Salaam, Zanzibar, Mombasa, Colombo, Madras and even Calcutta. So much so that there was hardly any time to save up money as ALL ports had their attractions in one way or another - scenic, touristy, shoreside friends, carnal! You were actually recognised when you went into your favourite shoreside pub as a "regular".

The passengers were an interesting diversion and the European staff were essentailly all in the same boat - a guaranteed two-year trip. Add to this, some very interesting and colourful characters and you have the ideal Bank Line mix!

And last of all, the ships themselves: we were serving aboard a distinguished, historic and interesting relic of the Raj and the British Commonwealth. Those were the days! We were envied by all other Bank Line personnel. Come on now! Admit it!

Essjay
31st May 2012, 14:18
I run the Royal Merchant Navy School Foundation, a British charity, and we own the builder's model of TSMV "Incomati”,“Isipingo” and “Inchanga”. Does anyone have any memorabilia of these ships available?

I know that Incomati and Isipingo are names of places in South Africa, and Inchanga was the name of a town in Northern Rhodesia which has been renamed by the Zambian Govt.

Alan Rawlinson
31st May 2012, 18:32
Inchanga memories.....

Aaah.. the lovely spicey aroma in the side alleyways ( Not near the crew and deck passenger toilets, though) Interminable anchoring. The posh saloon with the French polished doors. The ten lifeboats to stock up and keep in order. The wood and canvas swimming pool, with the water sloshing around as the ship rolled or pitched... The canoe stern with the wake.. Most of all, the atmosphere which is hard to capture in words.

jimthehat
31st May 2012, 23:27
Inchanga memories.....

Aaah.. the lovely spicey aroma in the side alleyways ( Not near the crew and deck passenger toilets, though) Interminable anchoring. The posh saloon with the French polished doors. The ten lifeboats to stock up and keep in order. The wood and canvas swimming pool, with the water sloshing around as the ship rolled or pitched... The canoe stern with the wake.. Most of all, the atmosphere which is hard to capture in words.

The two statues at the foot of the stairs in the saloon...

Isy and Pingo
jim

Andy Lavies
2nd June 2012, 11:10
The tins of lifeboat barley suger that the surveyor insisted had to be replaced by bottles. Even the Appys were sick of it in the end - and that's saying something!
Andy

Alan Rawlinson
3rd June 2012, 12:37
Another feature of these ships was the 4 fridge lockers - 3 Lower tween deck?

Seemed strange shivering down there at 2am when in Calcutta - tallying or watching for pilfering when loading. I seem to remember sacks of potatoes being stowed in them as well as various spices.

Alistair Macnab
3rd June 2012, 16:33
The reefer cargo lockers were in No,4 lower tween deck. Sorry to correct you but if you recall, No.3 was the trunked hatch down from the boat deck and was also two deeptanks port and starboard!

The reefer lockers were a source of trouble. In one of your threads you mentioned that there was a fire when you were aboard in these spaces. Well, we had the same situation when in Kidderpore Drydock. It was attempted sabotage! (I seem to remember yours was too?)

Harry Allan was Master. It was his birthday and the Bar Verandah was full of shore wallahs celebrating with him. Some hurried ashore and some stayed to watch the evolutions! I can still see Mate, Wilkie Rutherford emerging from the No.4 Hatch with his mess jacket covered in soot and foam from the extinguishers. Being in drydock, there was, of course, no water in the ship's fire mains!

Ah! Calcutta!

Alan Rawlinson
4th June 2012, 08:09
No 4 it was - can recall struggling with dodgy clusters there in tropical rain! The Lecky and his Chinese helper quite relaxed about the odd ' belt' - "not too bad with DC current" they said.

I wonder if the barber shop continued opposite the Apprentice's cabin? " Something for the weekend " took on a different meaning... Usually a box of mouldy white spotted chocolate from the shop, charged to our account.

Ben Masey
4th June 2012, 11:11
Hi,
About 15 years ago,I went into an agents office in Leith.Can't remember the name but it was opposite the site of the original Golf Links.
In the office was a builders modeel of the white ships,no individual name.As I was 2/O on Isipingo I asked about it being there.I was told that when London Office was changing from Bury St. each agent was given a model at random.
I had questioned when was the last time one of the "White" ships had visited Leith!!!!!!!


Ben Masey

Andy Lavies
4th June 2012, 14:14
2 Shillings a bar while I was there from 1958 to 1960. Nice, though!
Andy

Alan Rawlinson
4th June 2012, 17:42
Had a few very enjoyable picnics in Mombasa in 1952 using the motor lifeboat from Inchanga. If memory serves me right, we motored further into the harbour and around the corner to land on a sandy beach with a hotel within walking distance. Was it called Kilindini or similar? believe it was all built up years ago into an extension of the port for containers. Anyone have up to date information?

jimthehat
5th June 2012, 14:17
Had a few very enjoyable picnics in Mombasa in 1952 using the motor lifeboat from Inchanga. If memory serves me right, we motored further into the harbour and around the corner to land on a sandy beach with a hotel within walking distance. Was it called Kilindini or similar? believe it was all built up years ago into an extension of the port for containers. Anyone have up to date information?

Alan,
may be wrong,but on the stb.hand as one entered the port there was a hotel up on the cliffs,a couple of us used to go there on a regular basis and they allowed us the use of their sailing dinghies,now I thought that this was the Kilindini..

on a slightly different tack can anyone remember all the stevedores who would dash into the saloon and eat huge breakfasts,i know that on more than one occasion there were no eggs left for the app and myself when we got in.

jim

Andy Lavies
5th June 2012, 15:32
Port Reitz, I think, Alan. Nice and warm for a swim if you ignored the large lady sharks that laid eggs in the reedbeds up there.
Andy

Alan Rawlinson
5th June 2012, 17:45
Port Reitz, I think, Alan. Nice and warm for a swim if you ignored the large lady sharks that laid eggs in the reedbeds up there.
Andy

Thanks Andy, That sounds like the name - can remember our engineers holding court there on a balcony with tables and chairs and a plentiful supply of beer... They were quite relaxing afternoons on our calls, - all the more fun trying to get the tempermental lifeboat engine to start for the return trip.

Boss Hogg Jr
28th December 2012, 15:26
I run the Royal Merchant Navy School Foundation, a British charity, and we own the builder's model of TSMV "Incomati”,“Isipingo” and “Inchanga”. Does anyone have any memorabilia of these ships available?
No afraid not - but if you can source any photos of these my father served on the Isipingo in the late 1950's and I know he'd love to see even a model of her.

Merry Christmas

RMNSF
28th December 2012, 22:42
Happy Christmas to you too. You can see a photograph of the "Incomati”,“Isipingo” and “Inchanga” model that we have at http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/315599/title/tsmv-isipingo-2finchanga-2fincomati/cat/521.

Best wishes for 2013.

Alan Rawlinson
29th December 2012, 11:58
Happy Christmas to you too. You can see a photograph of the "Incomati”,“Isipingo” and “Inchanga” model that we have at http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/315599/title/tsmv-isipingo-2finchanga-2fincomati/cat/521.

Best wishes for 2013.

Greetings and best wishes from Cornwall ...............

There are a few photos around of the trio - less of the Incomati, but they do exist.

The model picture you kindly provided the link to, is backlit and not the best photo. Any chance of a more handsome pic, with plain backround, and decent lighting? I know, I'm a pain!

RMNSF
29th December 2012, 12:03
I took it myself and so it is very amateurish! I'll try to do better and post another!

Best wishes fort 2013.

woodend
29th December 2012, 13:22
All three are South African names. The INKOMATI RIVER flows through South Africa, Swaziland and Mozambique and the mouth is in Maputo Bay. INCHANGA is a village about half way between Durban and Pietermaritzburg and ISIPINGO is on the coast just south of Durban.
Why were they given these names and not the usual ......BANK?

RMNSF
29th December 2012, 14:59
Dear Woodend

Funnily enough, I served with the SAN in 1970/1 and, amongst other jobs, took a team of sailors and a couple of SAAF Alouette III helos to survey-in the positions used for the seaward calibration of the, then new, (SAAF) Main Chain Decca systems. I worked from Cape Cross (near the Angola/SW African border), south-wards through the CDM areas, round the Cape, and then east- and north-wards to Cape Vidal (near Lake St Lucia), and passed through ISIPINGO en route. Probably saw more of RSA than most South Africans; after all, I was told at the time that wherever an 'R'-vehicle goes it is always on a public road and the same applied to SAAF helos!

RMNSF

jimthehat
29th December 2012, 15:54
All three are South African names. The INKOMATI RIVER flows through South Africa, Swaziland and Mozambique and the mouth is in Maputo Bay. INCHANGA is a village about half way between Durban and Pietermaritzburg and ISIPINGO is on the coast just south of Durban.
Why were they given these names and not the usual ......BANK?

I expect that Alistair will come up with the right answer,But I think that maybe that it was because Durban was considered the home port,Tho I joined Isipingo in West Africa(will never know why she ended up there)but as everyone else has said the two years I spent on her were among the happiest of my seagoing career.

jim

jimthehat
29th December 2012, 15:59
Just out of interest,how many of you sailed on the white ships when they had nested boats next to No. 4 hatch?we had them on the Isipingo and the only time we had to launch was when the annual survey came up.

jim

Alan Rawlinson
29th December 2012, 16:08
Just out of interest,how many of you sailed on the white ships when they had nested boats next to No. 4 hatch?we had them on the Isipingo and the only time we had to launch was when the annual survey came up.

jim

Hi Jim,

Had them on the Inchanga - and my lasting memories are the usual ones - restocking the biscuits and barley sugar in the tanks, and the use of the motor boat for picnics in Mombasa harbour.

Cheers

Alan Rawlinson
29th December 2012, 16:17
I took it myself and so it is very amateurish! I'll try to do better and post another!

Best wishes fort 2013.

No problems - If I can suggest - the simplest technique is to get someone to hold up a plain coloured sheet or blanket ( whatever) behind the model, and then get a nice angle to snap away with a flash or better still some spotlights surrounding the case. Watch out for reflections. This should do the trick. Attached is a snap of the Inchanga 1952.

Alan Rawlinson
29th December 2012, 16:44
Pic of Incomati - from the ' wrecksite'

jimthehat
29th December 2012, 22:31
Alan,did the Incomati have slightly different engines to the other two?
That is a great photo.

jim

Alan Rawlinson
30th December 2012, 07:58
Alan,did the Incomati have slightly different engines to the other two?
That is a great photo.

jim

She had 2 Doxford diesels salvaged from the wreckage of SS Bermuda burned out in Belfast in 1931. ( The others had engines built by Workman Clark). The Bermuda had suffered a fire in Bermuda, and was towed to Belfast where she had the second final fire.

Being a superstitious mariner, it makes me wonder if they were an omen, as the Incomati was then sunk by U508, 400 miles south of Lagos. Believe 1 person died.

( The U Boat itself was sunk in November 1943 in the Atlantic by a Liberator of the US Navy - no survivors).

David E
30th December 2012, 23:26
Just out of interest,how many of you sailed on the white ships when they had nested boats next to No. 4 hatch?we had them on the Isipingo and the only time we had to launch was when the annual survey came up.

jim

Panic in '51 during the Annual Survey when the lower Starboard boat on Inchanga could not be moved at first and was then less than watertight when it eventually landed in the water-the Sikh surveyor was not impressed. It was after this that the routine of putting all the boats in the water during the prolonged anchor periods in Mombassa and using the motor-boat for picnics developed

Regards
Dave E

Alan Rawlinson
31st December 2012, 07:38
Panic in '51 during the Annual Survey when the lower Starboard boat on Inchanga could not be moved at first and was then less than watertight when it eventually landed in the water-the Sikh surveyor was not impressed. It was after this that the routine of putting all the boats in the water during the prolonged anchor periods in Mombassa and using the motor-boat for picnics developed

Regards
Dave E

Hallo David, A very Happy New Year 2013 to you....

It's 61 years since we were together on the Inchanga in 1951 - you as an experienced senior App. and me as a first tripper! Didn't stop me being temporarily elevated to acting 3/0. The phrase ' punched or bored ' springs to mind, but we managed to avoid the Maldives in the dark... Phew!

Alistair Macnab
31st December 2012, 16:38
When I was certificated 3/O aboard "Inchanga in 1958 -1960, we had nine lifeboats with the starboard double banked at position five and single banked on the port side at position six. I do not recall any problems with the state of all the lifeboats. Perhaps all the problems had been solved before my arrival as we regularly went through Calcutta surveys with no bother!

One thing I do remember was that when our passenger certificate was downgraded to 70, the Calcutta surveyor told us that as long as we had lifeboats aboard even in excess of the number required, we were obliged to keep them up-to-date. This was even more of a chore when we were reduced to 12 passengers! There is, however, a photograph somewhere on SN that shows the "Isipingo" with only four lifeboats, all on the boat deck, and some empty davits elsewhere. However, as long as I was on "Inchanga" (left in May 1960) she had nine boats.

Do you recall that the four lifeboats on the boat deck were routinely slid half-way out on their chocks to make more deck space available on the boat deck for deck golf? This was routinely done on the passage between Colombo and Mombasa both ways. At other times these boats were kept inboard as dockside cranes at the various ports were a potential hazard!

David E
1st January 2013, 00:39
Hallo David, A very Happy New Year 2013 to you....

It's 61 years since we were together on the Inchanga in 1951 - you as an experienced senior App. and me as a first tripper! Didn't stop me being temporarily elevated to acting 3/0. The phrase ' punched or bored ' springs to mind, but we managed to avoid the Maldives in the dark... Phew!

I went through the same terror as a very green U3M the previous year-imagination working overtime through the Maldives-I was lucky that Stafford-Watts was the Master-always aware of the teenage watchkeepers nerves-totally supportive, one of the best I sailed with-in contrast to some of the dross of that era.
Odd things remembered-climbing on to the poop awnings at night with Ted Webber,using them as hammocks,lying, looking at the stars and setting the world to rights.Using the motorboat for picnics in Mobassa.Years long gone.
There was always the terror in the Fleet of being transferred to the White ships-shared by myself, when I was 'shanghied' there in '50-yet in common with almost all who served in them they represented
some of the best years I had at sea. One of the reasons was the people stability that developed through the long trips-very evident in my last years at sea with Mobil where times in the ships were still twelve months.In Fyffes,a brilliant company,the long term contacts did not develop,as voyages were short and staff tended to rotate very frequently

Regards
David E

Alan Rawlinson
1st January 2013, 11:59
I went through the same terror as a very green U3M the previous year-imagination working overtime through the Maldives-I was lucky that Stafford-Watts was the Master-always aware of the teenage watchkeepers nerves-totally supportive, one of the best I sailed with-in contrast to some of the dross of that era.
Odd things remembered-climbing on to the poop awnings at night with Ted Webber,using them as hammocks,lying, looking at the stars and setting the world to rights.Using the motorboat for picnics in Mobassa.Years long gone.
There was always the terror in the Fleet of being transferred to the White ships-shared by myself, when I was 'shanghied' there in '50-yet in common with almost all who served in them they represented
some of the best years I had at sea. One of the reasons was the people stability that developed through the long trips-very evident in my last years at sea with Mobil where times in the ships were still twelve months.In Fyffes,a brilliant company,the long term contacts did not develop,as voyages were short and staff tended to rotate very frequently

Regards
David E

I think these posts reflect the regard everyone seems to have had for their time on the ' white ships'....

Never understood the strange ways or whims of the crew department however, because I was told in Australia that I was to go to the Inchanga, and it took 2 transfers via the Hazelbank and the Eastbank to get me there.

jimthehat
1st January 2013, 22:51
I think these posts reflect the regard everyone seems to have had for their time on the ' white ships'....

Never understood the strange ways or whims of the crew department however, because I was told in Australia that I was to go to the Inchanga, and it took 2 transfers via the Hazelbank and the Eastbank to get me there.

I was wondering how you managed to be sent to the Inchanga/
I flew out from London and joined the Isipingo as 3/0in West Africa,I got on to the ship about 2300 and we sailed at 0001,me on the bridge not knowing where anything was and we sailed back to Durban.

jim

Alan Rawlinson
2nd January 2013, 08:42
Port Reitz, I think, Alan. Nice and warm for a swim if you ignored the large lady sharks that laid eggs in the reedbeds up there.
Andy

Found a snap of a few of us enjoying a boat trip in Mombasa, and posing on the steps of the Port Reitz hotel? Was in 1952

I am on the left, then a Geordie engineer (name?) and Ian Harvey, the other apprentice, now retired in Capetown.

Alan Rawlinson
2nd January 2013, 16:36
Here's another with yours truly and Ian Harvey (in epaulettes) and a lady passsenger on the boatdeck of the Inchanga sometime in 1952.

Alistair Macnab
9th March 2013, 21:53
After Bank Line bought Bullard King's India-Natal service in 1933 and the three white ships t.s.m.v "Isipingo", "Inchanga" and "Incomati" were placed on the Bank Line's own Indian-African Line, a twice-a-month sailing was made from Calcutta to Durban with the white ships offering the premier service and the ships of the "Gujarat" class relegated to the second string. At the same time, at least two pre-owned ships were acquired, the "Congella" and the "Cabarita" to fill out the schedules with added outport calls at East Africa, Mocambique and Madagascar as well as South African ports south of Durban.

The two services were called respectively, Indian-African Line with Turner Morrison in Calcutta and Rennie's in Durban as agents; the second string, the India-Natal Line represented by Graham's in Calcutta and King's in Durban. Both services had their own house flag.

One of the white ships' original voyage features was the so-called "Typists Cruise" with sailings from Durban up the coast to Zanzibar, where a barbecue was thrown on one of the out islands whilst baggage was being transferred to the southbound vessel for the voyage back to Durban. I imagine that this sort of arrangement would require tight scheduling of the ships in order for them to meet in Zanzibar!

All this was, of course before WWII and was never possible thereafter with the loss of the "Incomati" although the twice-a-month cargo sailings were resumed after the war and were maintained for many years. One of the main features of the southbound leg was the direct Colombo to Durban sailing which was especially designed for the Ceylon tea growers. Sometimes this direct sailing was taken up by those Bank Line ships en route to the River Plate or West Coast of South America sailings.

Alan Rawlinson
10th March 2013, 19:42
Thanks Alistair for providing some of the pieces of the jigsaw that was the sum of the Bank Line Services! I always wondered why those scribble pads of the Bank Line with the elaborate deep red and blue map heading were so complicated. Some of the lines seemed similar, or complimentary, and I'm sure they made no sense to the uninitiated.

Never mind, I can still smell the spices wafting out of those big vents on the Inchanga!

Aberdonian
11th March 2013, 00:10
Thanks Alistair for providing some of the pieces of the jigsaw that was the sum of the Bank Line Services! I always wondered why those scribble pads of the Bank Line with the elaborate deep red and blue map heading were so complicated. Some of the lines seemed similar, or complimentary, and I'm sure they made no sense to the uninitiated.

Never mind, I can still smell the spices wafting out of those big vents on the Inchanga!


Calcutta to Durban: 1st Class (A) Consisting of Suite (Sitting Room, Bedroom & Toilet).........Ł135

1st Class (B) Consisting of Single-berthed Cabin & Toilet

1st Class (C) Consisting of Double-berthed Cabin & Toilet

Alan Rawlinson
26th March 2013, 12:08
Found this postcard of the M.V. Inchanga leaving Durban, with the Bluff in the background, and an attending tug to get safely out.

Believe this card was sold in the Barber's Shop during my time in 1952.