Plans of WWI Standard Built Tanker

non descript
9th February 2006, 18:32
I am trying to trace the builder's plans of a WW1 Standard Tanker from just after the First World War.

If I can find the builder's plans, the next stage is to locate someone who can make a model.

The plans that I am looking for, are of these two fine ladies:

War Jemadar
5563dwt Tanker
Built 1919 for Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co, London;
Later bought by Hadley Shipping Co (1928) re-named Corato and scrapped Briton Ferry 1938.

Or her sister ship:
War Jandoli
Built 1920 for Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co;
Bought by Hadley Shipping Co in 1926 and re-named CEPOLIS scrapped Yokohama in 1937

Any guidance would be very much appreciated
Tonga

stevecz
9th February 2006, 21:59
Tonga,
The only history I can find.

War Jemadar built by James Laing & Sons Ltd. Sunderland.
5563 Gross Tons, 400 ft loa, 52 ft beam.
1918-1919 for Shipping Controller, managed by Hunting & Son.
Sold 1919-1927 to Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co, London, renamed Cliona in 1922.
Sold 1927-1928 to Deutsche Tankreederi, Hamburg,
Sold 1928-1938 to Hadley Shipping Co, London, renamed Corato.
Scrapped 1938, Briton Ferry.

War Jandoli, built by Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend.
5578 Gross Tons, 400 ft loa, 52 ft beam.
1919-1920 for Shipping Controller, managed by Lane & MacAndrew.
Sold 1920-1926 to Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co, renamed Cepolis in 1921),
Sold 1926-1937 to Hadley Shipping Co, London.
Scrapped 1937, Yokohama.

non descript
10th February 2006, 11:28
Thanks Steve, all things help and it keeps the thread visible in case someone passes by and has access to the builders’ plans for these special ships.

It seems that the one thing that is really difficult to locate is a decent ship’s GA plan of this era.

Tonga

Tmac1720
10th February 2006, 13:01
Plans for a standard "A" type tanker are available from the Harland and Wolff archives, a GA and a Rigging Profile. If any of the vessels you are interested in is a "A" type I can give you more details. (Thumb)

non descript
10th February 2006, 13:29
Tmac,

I have to confess, I was hopful that you would reply. Many thanks and I'll be in touch via PM to see how I can access this archives.

Tonga

non descript
13th February 2006, 11:50
Tmac,

This (please see War Hostage description below) is maybe an example of the standard design ship I am looking for; is it also called a "standard "A" type tanker " or am I on the wrong track?

Kind regards
Tonga

ss WAR HOSTAGE
built by Harland & Wolff Ltd Govan,
Yard No 525G
Last Name: ASHKHABAD (1938)
Previous Names: DNESPROSTROI (1938) KUTAIS (1934) MISTLEY HALL (1925) ALDERSGATE (1924) MILAZZO (1919)
Propulsion: steam
Launched: Tuesday, 16 October 1917
Built: 1917
Ship Type: Tanker
Tonnage: 5181grt
Length: 401 feet
Breadth: 52.3 feet
Owner History:
Ministry of Shipping (Anglo Saxon Petroleum) London

Bruce Carson
13th February 2006, 14:54
Tonga,
At the following URL here are a couple of small pictures of the 'Ashkhabad' sinking.
It may be worth a quick look.

http://www.nc-wreckdiving.com/WRECKS/ASHKHABAD/ASHKHABAD.HTML

Bruce C.

non descript
13th February 2006, 17:32
Bruce

Many thanks for this bit of info, it another piece of the puzzle.

I am now a bit further on, as it seems the plans I am after are for something called "Z" Class.

I wonder if Tmac has such in his archives?

Kind regards
Tonga

Tmac1720
13th February 2006, 17:59
Hi Tonga,

You have me worried now as I'm not familiar with the term "Z" class. All the standard tankers we built are "AO" class but I'll do a bit more research and get back to you ASAP. The tanker you refer to War Hostage is "AO" class.

I'll keep digging and hopefully get the answer.

non descript
13th February 2006, 18:15
Hi Tmac,

Thank you for your interest – Frankly, I think I am the one who should be worried, for if you don’t recognise the “Z” but you do know of the “AO”, then my money is on you being right and me being the Tropical Freshwater Allowance.

I await your reply with great interest

Tonga

ps. now I have Bruce's photograph I am that much closer to my goal

Bruce Carson
13th February 2006, 18:30
Tonga, the ship is almost certainly, according to her tonnage, a Type AO.

Found the following classifications:
AO. 5250 gross tons, length 412ft, beam 52ft, single screw, speed 11 knots.
AO tankers were A type cargo ships converted to tankers by the addition of cylindrical tanks built into their holds.

Z. 5800 gross tons, length 412ft, beam 52ft, single screw, speed 11 knots. Designed as tankers.

Bruce C.

non descript
14th February 2006, 09:16
Bruce,

Thanks for your very useful input.

Going back to the start and the actual two ships I am after (which were definitely sister ships) it looks like the War Jemadar and War Jandoli were Z Class ships and I was wrong going off at a tangent by mentioning the WAR HOSTAGE - I only did this because it was built by Harland & Wolff Ltd Govan and thought it might assist Tmac, who is still very kindly burrowing away through his archives. With hindsight that was a red-herring, although it had it's uses, as we got a photo of ASHKHABAD, which is at least a bit similar to the Z Class in terms of bridge amidships.

So we return to the original ships that we need the plans of (or failing this a photograph):

War Jemadar
5563dwt Tanker
Built 1919 for Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co, London;
Later bought by Hadley Shipping Co (1928) re-named CORATO and scrapped Briton Ferry 1938.

Or her sister ship:
War Jandoli
Built 1920 for Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co;
Bought by Hadley Shipping Co in 1926 and re-named CEPOLIS scrapped Yokohama in 1937

Any and all input would be very welcome, as this one is beginning to be quite a stubborn one to crack.

Tonga

Bruce Carson
14th February 2006, 23:48
Tonga, I had forgotten about the original two ships that you mentioned.
The two are "Z" types, being designed as tankers from the beginning.

There is a photo of a Type "Z" on the following site, the 'War Brahmin'. That should give you an idea of what the class looked like.
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=18043
She measured 5,545GT, 400' x 52.2'.

Bruce C.

non descript
18th February 2006, 21:54
Bruce,

You have been a huge help.

Thanks to you I now have a very clear idea of what a “Z Class” looks like. The main key is that they are built with engines and all superstructure amidships.

I have trawled through various sited and found an endless list of names of “Z” Class tankers, but so far no other photos. Interestingly there mention of a. “Athelstane" . She was sunk by Japanese aircraft bombs at 07-30 N, 81-56E whilst on passage from Trincomalee for Colombo. All of her crew survived the ferocious Japanese air attack. She is described as a WW1-Standard type built in 1918 by Irvines S.B. & D.D. Co., West Hartlepool as WAR GHURKA with Hunting & Sons, as managers.

Purchased in 1919 , it was not until 1921 that she was renamed CAPRELLA by Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co. (Shell). In 1924 she was sold to British Molasses Co. and renamed ATHELFOAM In 1931 she was sold to G.O. Aarvold & Co. Oslo, and renamed HIRD, but was on charter to Athel. In 1935 she was repurchased and renamed ATHELSTANE.

If this review jogs any other member's memory, I would be very grateful for their input.

Regards
Tonga

Bruce Carson
19th February 2006, 01:00
Tonga, I've always wanted copies of Mitchell & Sawyers books on the standard ships of WW1 & WW11, but never have had any luck.
I would guess that "Wartime Standard Ships, Vol. 3, British Standard Ships of WWI may have some information on the Type Z.
Here is another picture of a "Z" (War Afridi) with a slightly better view of the oil tanks.
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/images/rfawarafridi.jpg

Bruce C.

non descript
19th February 2006, 01:10
Bruce,

Thanks and this is all getting closer. I even found one myself, which give the general idea.

Regards
Tonga

stevecz
19th February 2006, 01:15
Tonga,
The info I have on Caprella as follows
Caprella (1), ex War Ghurka built by Irvines Shipbuilding & Drydock Co.Ltd, West Hartlepool.
(1918-1919 for Shipping Controller, managed by Hunting & Sons).
Sold (1919-1924 to Anglo Saxon Petroleum Co Ltd, London, renamed Caprella (1) in 1921),
(1924-1931 to British Molasses Co. (United Molasses Co, in 1926, later Athel Line), renamed Athelfoam),
(1931-1935 G.O. Aarvold & Co. Oslo, renamed Hird, on charter to Athel).
(1935-1940 to Athel Line, renamed Athelstane).
Requisitioned (1940-1942 by the Admiralty as an Oiler).
Sunk 09/04/1942, bombed by Japanese aircraft off Kalmunai, Sri Lanka, at position 07°30'N, 81°56'E. On passage from Trincomalee to Colombo, Celon (Sri Lanka). All crew survived.

Sorry, no pictuure, I'm looking for one too.

non descript
19th February 2006, 09:28
Steve

Thank you for your interest, it is appreciated.

There is indeed a site with a text similar to the one you found, but beware as there is a photo attached but it is wrong! I guess it must a another ship of a similar name.

In the text, the writer correctly explained about a Z Class being "built with engines and all superstructure amidships", but then adds a photograph of a wonderful ship (and it may well be called Caprella) but it is very clearly Engines Aft, and we may safely assume, NOT a "Z Class".

Kind regards
Tonga

helen
19th February 2006, 11:05
I know I'm only a layman and a novice at maritime research, but Liverpool Maritime Museum offer a ship plan copying service so guess they have some.

Helen

non descript
19th February 2006, 11:38
Helen,

You do yourself a grave injustice – a quick thinking novice is probably better placed than an old and tunnel-visioned sea-dog; on the basis that the former has bright and fresh ideas, whilst the latter a memory and a logic from a different age, you seem to have an immediate advantage.

I am very grateful for your suggestion, which I would not have come to unaided and I will check out this link tomorrow:

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/maritime/archive/displayGuide.aspx?sid=37&serStr=&sorStr=s_title%20ASC%202&pgeInt=6&catStr=


Many thanks
Tonga

helen
19th February 2006, 23:43
Tonga, thank you very much for that. What I never forget - and must never forget - is the tremendous help received from many mariners and ex-mariners who have given of their knowledge and time so generously over the last year to help me, without which I would probably be sitting gazing out the window and have sold off my computer by now. Helen

helen
20th February 2006, 01:41
Sorry Tonga, switched off and then remembered - "How could I have forgot?"

Info now passed on to Tonga and deleted from here.

non descript
20th February 2006, 21:47
Helen,

Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

I am waiting to hear back from Liverpool Museum, I'm not over hopeful as there is no direct connection with this port, but frankly every little helps and they may pass me on to someone else who has a loft full of GA Plans of "Z Class Tankers". :)

Kind regards
Tonga

Bruce Carson
20th February 2006, 22:53
Tonga, many of these ships were built on the Clyde.
Glasgow U and the Mitchell Library have extensive shipping files.
It couldn't hurt to fire off an EMail to both locations.
One or the other may have what you need.

Bruce C.

non descript
21st February 2006, 00:19
Bruce,

Thanks for those two ideas - I'll try both of them. In the meantime I came across one "Z" Class with an unusual end, in that she was sunk by the US Navy....

War Khan Built for the Shipping Controller, with Stephens, Sutton & Stephens as Managers, thereafter:
1919 Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co, London;
1922 CAPSA, same owners;
1927 NORDHAV, Skibs A/S Nordhav (T.Lodding), Oslo;
1940 seized by Japan;
1941 DAISIN MARU, Oiwa Tokujiro, Kobe;
23.9.43 torpedoed and sunk by USS HARDER at 34.20N 137.05E.

All input is very much appreciated.

Kind regards
Tonga

stevecz
21st February 2006, 17:17
Tonga,
This is a list of all the Anglo Saxon associated Z Class, unfortunatley I am still researching them myself, but it may help in your quest for plans. Most of them had other names after being sold on. if you want the info I can e-mail it in excel format.

Anglo-Sax / As Built / Off No. / Year / Builder

Caprella (1) / War Ghurka / 142729 /1918 / Irvines Shipbuilding & Drydock Co.Ltd, West Hartlepool

Capsa (1) / War Khan / 143041 / 1919 / James Laing & Sons Ltd. Sunderland

Cardita (1) / War Gaekwar / 143432 / 1919 / Lithgows Ltd. Port Glasgow

Cepolis / War Jandoli / 143048 / 1919 / Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend

Chiton / War Shikari / 143197 / 1919 / Lithgows Ltd. Port Glasgow

Cliona (1) / War Jemadar / 142659 / 1918 / James Laing & Sons Ltd. Sunderland

Conia / War Rajput / 142613 / 1918 / Armstrong Whitworth & Co., Newcastle

Conus (1) / War Begum / 143358 / 1920 / Palmer's Shipbuilding and Iron Company, Jarrow

Crenatula / War Subadar / 142629 / 1918 / W. Gray & Co. Ltd. West Hartlepool

Adna / War Patriot / 142380 / 1918 / Cammell Laird & Co. Ltd Birkenhead

Corbis / War Ranee / 142455 / 1918 / Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend

Eagle-oil
San Zotico / War Kookri / 143326 / 1919 / Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend

non descript
21st February 2006, 20:22
Steve

That is a very kind effort, many thanks.

Certainly having the builders' names and yard adds to my knowledge and may well be the key I need to open this one.

Kind regards
Tonga

Bruce Carson
21st February 2006, 23:25
Stevecz added the list of Anglo-Saxon Petroleum ships and I thought I'd attempt the other "Z" Class tankers.
Listed are the completion date, the first managers for the Shipping Controller and the shipbuilder. I don't have the official number of the ships.
All are prefixed "WAR".

Afridi Jan 1920 C. T. Bowring & Co. R. Duncan & Co., Port Glasgow
Bahadur Dec 1918 C. T. Bowring & Co. Sir W. G. Armstrong, Whitworth & Co., Walker Yard, Newcastle
Bharata Mar 1920 British Tanker Co. Palmers Shipbuilding & Iron Co., Hebburn on Tyne
Brahmin Feb 1920 C. T. Bowring & Co. Litgows Ltd, Port Glasgow
Diwan Aug 1919 C. T. Bowring & Co. Lithgows Ltd., Port Glasgow
Dogra Jul 1919 Gow, Harrison & Co. Wm. Hamilton & Co. Ltd., Port Glasgow
Hagara Jul 1919 A. Weir & Co. Sir J. Laing & Son Ltd., Sunderland
Hindoo Oct 1919 Gow, Harrison & Co. Wm. Hamilton & Co Ltd., Port Glasgow
Krishna Nov 1919 Lane & MacAndrew Ltd. Swan, Hunter & Wigham Richardson Ltd., Wallsend on Tyne
Mehtar Mar 1920 Hunting & Son Sir W. G. Armstrong, Whitworth, Newcastle
Mogul Aug 1919 Anglo-American Oil Co. R. Duncan & Co. Ltd., Port Glasgow
Nawab Aug 1919 British Tanker Co. Palmers Shipbuilding & Iron Co. Ltd., Hebburn on Tyne
Nizam Oct 1918 British Tanker Co. Palmers Shipbuilding & Iron Co. Ltd., Hebburn on Tyne
Pathan May 1919 A. Weir & Co Sir J. Laing & Son Ltd., Sunderland
Pindari Mar 1920 C. T. Bowring & Co. Lithgows Ltd., Port Glasgow
Pundit Dec 1918 Stephens, Sutton & Stephens Sir J. Laing & Son Ltd., Sunderland
Rajah Dec 1918 British Tanker Co. Swan, Hunter & Wigham Richardson Ltd., Wallsend on Tyne
Sepoy Feb 1919 Anglo-Mexican Petroleum Co. Wm. Gray & Co. Ltd., West Harlepool
Sikh Nov 1918T. W. Tamplin & Co. Wm. Gray & Co. Ltd., West Hartlepool
Sirdar(2) Feb 1920 Anglo-Mexican Petroleum Co. Sir J. Laing & Son Ltd., Sunderland
Sudra May 1920 British Tanker Co. Palmers Shipbuilding & Iron Ltd., Hebburn on Tyne
Wazir Jun 1919 Imperial Japanese Navy R. Duncan & Co. Ltd., Port Glasgow

Bruce C.

non descript
22nd February 2006, 13:21
Bruce,

Thanks and that's an excellent list.

I am still miles away from success, but given the great support I have enjoyed here I am fairly hopeful that one of the leads I've been given will prove a success. At the moment I am trying to home in on the builder Wm. Gray & Co. Ltd., West Hartlepool as they may hold the records whilst the other yards appear to have not.

Tonga

stevecz
22nd February 2006, 15:36
Tonga,
Picture of War Brahmin on Clydesite
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=18043

I think this site runs some kind of forum, perhaps you could try your luck there.
The Clyde yards seem, in general, to keep better records.

My Uncle was on the War Diwan when it sank, but only has one damaged photo and some vague memories.
I have chased up some information for him, and found this interesting site
http://home.wxs.nl/~lange133/wrecks-wrakken/War-Diwan.htm

helen
22nd February 2006, 21:36
I have a lot of interest in tankers of this era, especially Anglo-Saxon Tankers. My father was 1st Radio Officer on Sepia 1939 - 1944. He loved that ship. I have also acquired the 1948 book Tanker Fleet. Helen

Bruce Carson
22nd February 2006, 23:44
Hi Tonga:
Ooops--you mentioned Wm. Gray & Co., West Hartlepool.
When I first started looking for information I came upon the following site.
I didn't think it relevant to your search and didn't mention it in my postings.
The yard built two Class Z tankers, the 'War Sepoy' and the 'War Subadar. "Yard Books" were kept on all their vessels built, listing the measurements as the ships were constructed and all are online. Even if they're of no practical use, it's interesting just to take a looksee.

http://tinyurl.com/qn4qh
War Subadar, yard #903 (page 8)
War Sepoy, yard #909 (page 9)

Bruce C.

non descript
23rd February 2006, 00:15
Hi Bruce,

Thanks again.

Yes, I've pondered over this link and after initial excitiement I came unstuck again, as it lead to very little in terms of anything I need like a G A and Capacity Plan, but that said, I am most grateful for your kind and continued interest in this project.

My link to Wm Gray & Co Ltd has not bourne fruit so far; maybe they are saddened that their family company went into liquidation and they do not care to be reminded of this.

Tonga

non descript
4th March 2006, 21:28
So far none of the avenues of research have led to finding a General Arrangement Plan of a Z Class Tanker. I live in hope, but if anyone has any fresh ideas, or happens to have such a GA plan ticked away in a bottom drawer, I would be delighted to hear.

Bruce Carson
4th March 2006, 21:58
Hi Tonga:
Only three yards on the Clyde built the Z Type: Lithgow, Duncan and Hamilton, all of Port Glasgow.
Duncan and Hamilton were taken over by Lithgow during WWI and when Scott Lithgow sadly ended their shipbuilding activities, the Lithgow archives went to the University of Glasgow.

http://www.archives.gla.ac.uk/collects/catalog/gd/gd320.html

There is no specific mention of plans as far as I see and, if I'm reading the information correctly, they mention the National Archives of Scotland and the Scottish Maritime Museum as possible holders of additional Lithgow material.
I am almost certain you've checked with their Archives Department, but I thought I'd remention it.

It's an interesting thread: I hope you have success and that you will share the results here on the forum.

Bruce C.

non descript
5th March 2006, 19:37
Hi Bruce,

Many thanks for that input and it’s very good to know the names of the three yards on the Clyde that built these ships; the University of Glasgow are course most helpful and responsive, but have so far not proved the answer to my search.

I am always grateful for all the help that is given, and every little helps; even just keeping the thread alive is good and allows others to put theirs advice and thoughts on the site and thereby maybe jolt the odd memory, so I would welcome anyone’s comments.

It will be my pleasure to not only share the immediate results, but also hopefully show the final result – i.e. a model of a Z Class Tanker

Tonga

non descript
18th May 2006, 21:17
Thanks to all the input and comment from the members of SN who kindly gave their assistance, I am very nearly there, as I have received this response from Greenwich Museum:


"
Thank you for your e-mail regarding plans of the above vessels.

The National Maritime Museum holds some general arrangement plans of the War Dogra (1919) and War Hindoo (1919) built by William Hamilton & Co Ltd at Port Glasgow (Yard Nos 370 and 371).

Please supply your postal address so that I can send him a list of the relevant items and photocopying costs.

Tyne & Wear Archives Service (see the website www.tyneandweararchives.org.uk) might perhaps hold some plans of the War Khan (1919) and other Z Class tankers built by Sir James Laing & Sons Ltd at Sunderland.

Kind regards

Graham Thompson
Curator, Historic Photographs & Ship Plans
National Maritime Museum, Greenwich

++

Mr Thompson has been a huge help and has come up trumps where so many people failed. We are now a lot closer to getting a model built.

May I also say a big thank you to all of you, for without the help and support of SN I would still be lost.

Kind regards
Tonga

Bruce Carson
19th May 2006, 21:21
Sounds like your well on your way.
I've only contacted a UK museum a couple of times, but have been surprised at the response--they seem to go out of their way to try and help.
Keep us all posted as to new developments.

Bruce C

non descript
2nd July 2006, 10:55
The GA Plans of War Dogra have arrived and we are now in discussions with the model maker. The Members of Shipsnostalgia and the staff at the Greenwich Maritime Museum have done us proud. Thank you, I could not have done it without you. (Applause)

Graybeard
30th April 2007, 00:50
Hi Tonga,
Did you actually get your plans of the "War" class? I have been after plan of the RFA War class for some time. Could you email me and let me know what actual plans you got and the costs?
I have tried through PortCities Hartlepool who have been brilliant at supplying copies of the ships books of RFA built at Grays in WW1, including War Sepoy. They have no recors of ships plans.
I am trying to write a book on the RFA ships, class by class and plans are proving hard to track down.
Best regards, Graybeard

barnsey
30th April 2007, 01:08
Tonga .... try this link to Deans Models in the UK ... they make a kit of the "Imperial Transport". I have the kit of Hudson River and they supply a GA in that kit which seems to have been taken from the originals. So I guess it would be the same for her.

The link should take you to a picture of the model and is I guess the era you are looking for. The kits are very good, GRP hull with plates and rivets outlined ... you need to muck about a bit to "get things right". They supply every deck fitting, masts ,rigging, winches and so on.

www.deansmarine.co.uk/custmodels/IMPTRANSP.JPG

Barnsey

Keith Adams
30th April 2007, 07:08
A bit late but Wartime Standard Ships Volume Three, British Standard Ships of World War 1 by W.H.Mitchell/L.A.Sawyer. Sea Breezes, Liverpool 1968 The Journal of Commerce and Shipping Telegraph book pages 107 through 109 covers the Z Type Tanker but only shows a starboard side pen and ink profile sketch but lists all 25 Shipbuilders and 24 Engine Makers ( most did both). The War Jemadar and the War Jandoli are included in a 12 vessel group of the 34 hulls actually completed that saw early service as fleet oilers. On page 116, Hull # 672 "War Jamadar" blt by Sir J.Laing and Sons and Laid Down 29 aug 1918 an Completed Sept 1918 in 1921 became "Cliona", 1928 "Corato" and scrapped 1938 at Britton Ferry. On page 119, Hull# 1092 "War Jandoli" blt by Swan Hunter and Wigham Richardson Ltd Laid down in 1919 (no month) and completed Mar 1919 in 1920 became "Cepolis" and was scrapped Feb 1937 in Yokohama. The best photograph of the true Z Type is of the "War Gackwar" on page 116 as it shows the typical short foremast on the foredeck and the tall mainmast between the funnel and the bridgehouse ... a short mizzen mast (same height as the fore) is mounted on the poop deck. Both the fore and mizzen have forward mounted cargo derricks/booms. Cordially, Snowy

non descript
30th April 2007, 08:48
Hi Tonga,
Did you actually get your plans of the "War" class? I have been after plan of the RFA War class for some time.

Best regards, Graybeard


Graybeard,

Thank you for your interest and yes, I did get the GA Plans for the War Dodgra from the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich. They could not have been more helpful and were most pleasant - a bit like the Members on Ships Nostalgia, but the Museum was not as quick (Jester)

I will send you a PM with the contact details

Kind regards
Tonga

non descript
30th April 2007, 09:13
Tonga .... try this link to Deans Models in the UK ... they make a kit of the "Imperial Transport". I have the kit of Hudson River and they supply a GA in that kit which seems to have been taken from the originals. So I guess it would be the same for her.

Barnsey

Barnsey,

Thank you for your interesting link to the model of Imperial Transport, I notice on the SN site that there is a recent reference to the similar vessel, San Demetrio , here ( http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=11399).

These Blythswood-built vessels were to play a significant part throughout the 1939-1945 War at Sea, and the stubbornness of Imperial Transport, which resolutely refused to succumb to all that the enemy could throw at her, is maybe the reason that this model finds such a following.

Kind regards
Tonga

non descript
30th April 2007, 09:22
A bit late but Wartime Standard Ships Volume Three, British Standard Ships of World War 1 by W.H.Mitchell/L.A.Sawyer. Sea Breezes, Liverpool 1968 The Journal of Commerce and Shipping Telegraph book pages 107 through 109 covers the Z Type Tanker but only shows a starboard side pen and ink profile sketch but lists all 25 Shipbuilders and 24 Engine Makers ( most did both). The War Jemadar and the War Jandoli are included in a 12 vessel group of the 34 hulls actually completed that saw early service as fleet oilers. On page 116, Hull # 672 "War Jamadar" blt by Sir J.Laing and Sons and Laid Down 29 aug 1918 an Completed Sept 1918 in 1921 became "Cliona", 1928 "Corato" and scrapped 1938 at Britton Ferry. On page 119, Hull# 1092 "War Jandoli" blt by Swan Hunter and Wigham Richardson Ltd Laid down in 1919 (no month) and completed Mar 1919 in 1920 became "Cepolis" and was scrapped Feb 1937 in Yokohama. Cordially, Snowy

Snowy,

That is all most interesting and never too late. You will not be surprised (given my background) that it is indeed the Cepolis and the Corato that are the focus of my attention. She was purchased (from Shell) for £60,000 and taken over on Christmas Eve, 1926, entering into a 10 year time-charter to her former owners.

Kind regards
Tonga

Graybeard
1st May 2007, 09:41
Graybeard,

Thank you for your interest and yes, I did get the GA Plans for the War Dodgra from the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich. They could not have been more helpful and were most pleasant - a bit like the Members on Ships Nostalgia, but the Museum was not as quick (Jester)

I will send you a PM with the contact details

Kind regards
Tonga

Many thanks indeed. I look forward to that. I have a huge collection of photographic postcards of RFA and the War Class (Z-types) if any could of use to you for details, etc. I also have 1200 scale models.

Although I discovered this site last year I've only really come back in the last week or so and I am amazed at the activity and information going around. It is wonderful and looks like everyone is enjoying it all.

I went to the West Country Ship Fair in Portishead a week or so ago and the RFA Reunion last weekend. It is so good getting back in the company of seafarers again. Even after 18 years ashore I still miss the seafarer's approach to life.

Best regards, Mike

Tom Wales
2nd May 2007, 11:32
If they are Tyne built as suggested in an earlier post you could try the Tyne and Wear Archives.
http://www.tyneandweararchives.org.uk/pdf/userguide05.pdf

I found the building records for a WW1 ship which included a sketch (not much detail in the sketch but there were lots of quantities and key measurements)
Hard to tell what might be in individual sections. The link will give some outline details and contact details . Might be worth a visit if feasible.

non descript
2nd May 2007, 11:41
Thank you Tom, most kind, but as mentioned in #39, all is safely gathered in and the model is said to be under construction.

nhp651
3rd May 2007, 21:13
Tonga, I've just been looking through old research papers, at models that I have built, and/or obtained obscure plans for in the past and I have used in the past an organisation called "the Ballast Trust" Monarch works, 18/20 Walkinshaw Street, Johnstone, PA5 8EU, they are the "Keeper of Records" for all engineering, including Clyde Shipbuilding and have now I believe stationed themselve within Glasgow University jurisdiction. they have many thousands of plans relating to all aspects of engineering and 5-6000negatives of such. they may be able to help. the last telephone no. I had was 01505 328488.hope this might help.just realised tonga, that I hadn't gone to page two of your post and that you had found plans for the vessel. put it down to a senior moment.good luck with your build project.

non descript
3rd May 2007, 22:33
Neil, that was most kind, thank you for your interest.

Frankly, initially I got nowhere and every turn ended up as a blind alley, but suddenly I got lucky. The importance was to secure the plans and give them ahead of the gentleman's 80th birthday and thankfully I did achieve that. Your information is most useful not only for me, but for anyone else venturing down the same road, so well done. (Thumb)
Kind regards
Mark

non descript
20th November 2008, 22:37
If any model maker based in the UK has an interest in building a model of a Z Class tanker I would be delighted to hear from them. (Thumb)

Scousegit
21st November 2008, 11:03
Tonga,

I might be interested if you would like to PM me.

Regards,

Scouse.

happy harrison
29th March 2012, 12:38
Have funnel marking of Associated Fisheries,Boston Deep Sea Fisheries,Boyd Line,British United Trawlers,Thomas Hamlings,Hellyer Bros, Hudson Bros,Lord Line,J.Marr &Son,Newington Trawlers, Ranger Fishing Company,Ross Group......

If Anyone needs a copy of these they are more than welcome, Happy Harrison