New Plymouth, New Zealand. - Tracing the burial ground of a young hero

rainbow
10th February 2006, 19:34
This is my first post so I'd like to say hello to everyone and I'm sure it's a happy ship. But the purpose of my 'being here' is to seek the help of members who may have witnessed a tragic incident that took place about 1957 in New Plymouth, New Zealand.

This is a plea for information from 'Liverpool Retired Merchant Seafarers'.

We publish a quarterly newsletter that keeps members up to date with local/international maritime events. We also trace the history, where we can, of events that they experienced during their sea-going days. They are encouraged to contribute their own stories of home and abroad and one such tale that was brought to our attention concerns the freighter 'British Monarch' that ended in tragedy.
It is of two young local girls swimming in the harbour at Port Taranaki in New Plymouth, New Zealand, whilst the ship was discharging her cargo of Phosphate at the quay. For some reason the girls got into trouble and called for help. At the same time two young apprentices were on deck of the British Monarch and were attracted by the girls call for assistance. Both of the boys (aged about 16) responded immediately, and without any thought for their own safety, dived in the water and made a heroic effort to save the girls. Thankfully both girls were saved, but tragically one of the apprentices was drowned and buried in a small churchyard that overlooked the harbour.
I have been given the task of finding out the boy’s name and the churchyard where he was buried. Some of our members make the occasional visit to New Zealand and if we can identify the boy’s name and church, they could make arrangements to visit the grave and give a fitting commemoration to a young and maybe forgotten hero. It could well be that the girls or their families have tended the grave over the years but we have no knowledge of this.
Therefore does anyone remember the sorrowful incident with clarity?
Can anyone identify our young hero?
Was there a mission to Seamen in Port Taranaki?
We would like to know the name of the churchyard and if it was reported in the local paper.
Any information regarding this would be much appreciated

Thanks,
Rainbow

fred henderson
10th February 2006, 19:47
A warm welcome Rainbow. I am sure some of our members will be able to help your quest. Please stay and enjoy the site

Fred (Thumb)

KPC
10th February 2006, 19:56
Try contacting the local office of the Maritime Union of NZ
http://www.munz.org.nz/
Good Luck and please keep us informed...a great story

william dillon
10th February 2006, 21:08
This is truly a tragic & heroic story, I wish you well in your quest, the young man should be recognised for his selfless deed. (Applause) (Applause)

bobby388
10th February 2006, 22:56
Welcome Rainbow
Very tragic sad story keep tuned into to site im sure help will come from the members.
Bobby(glasgow).

jim barnes
11th February 2006, 00:36
Welcome Rainbow, interesting story and sad, keep us posted and give us a bit of profile about youself as well (Thumb) (Hippy)

billyboy
11th February 2006, 02:43
Welcom to the site Rainbow. I wish you well in your quest. am sure somebody on this site will be able to help you find the answer you are looking for. we have NZ members here who may have heard of this tragic incident. good luck and thank you for goining us on SN.

rainbow
11th February 2006, 10:54
Thanks for the warm welcome. A few details as requested. I come from Liverpool and I'm 64 yrs of age, married 38 yrs and I've got 4 kids + 8 grandkids. I stopped going away like many others in Liverpool in the late sixties, as the demise of shipping, (passenger and cargo), was 'on the cards'. My hobbies are computers and digital photography, on a nice day I'll call a pal from our days on the Carinthia (Cunard) and we'll go out and capture the ever changing face of Liverpool (politicians and planners have wrecked this magnificent city). My involvement with Liverpool Retired Merchant Seafarers newsletter has only just started (because the editor is computer illiterate and he needed a gofer) although I've been a member of L.R.M.S. for a few years.
Hope that give you a broad picture of myself.
Thanks for askin'
Rainbow

Pat McCardle
11th February 2006, 12:10
Nice one Rainbow. Welcome aboard!! (Thumb)

R58484956
11th February 2006, 12:18
Welcome Rainbow to the site, you are most welcome and good luck with your request.

vix
11th February 2006, 22:44
This is my first post so I'd like to say hello to everyone and I'm sure it's a happy ship. But the purpose of my 'being here' is to seek the help of members who may have witnessed a tragic incident that took place about 1957 in New Plymouth, New Zealand.

This is a plea for information from 'Liverpool Retired Merchant Seafarers'.

We publish a quarterly newsletter that keeps members up to date with local/international maritime events. We also trace the history, where we can, of events that they experienced during their sea-going days. They are encouraged to contribute their own stories of home and abroad and one such tale that was brought to our attention concerns the freighter 'British Monarch' that ended in tragedy.
It is of two young local girls swimming in the harbour at Port Taranaki in New Plymouth, New Zealand, whilst the ship was discharging her cargo of Phosphate at the quay. For some reason the girls got into trouble and called for help. At the same time two young apprentices were on deck of the British Monarch and were attracted by the girls call for assistance. Both of the boys (aged about 16) responded immediately, and without any thought for their own safety, dived in the water and made a heroic effort to save the girls. Thankfully both girls were saved, but tragically one of the apprentices was drowned and buried in a small churchyard that overlooked the harbour.
I have been given the task of finding out the boy’s name and the churchyard where he was buried. Some of our members make the occasional visit to New Zealand and if we can identify the boy’s name and church, they could make arrangements to visit the grave and give a fitting commemoration to a young and maybe forgotten hero. It could well be that the girls or their families have tended the grave over the years but we have no knowledge of this.
Therefore does anyone remember the sorrowful incident with clarity?
Can anyone identify our young hero?
Was there a mission to Seamen in Port Taranaki?
We would like to know the name of the churchyard and if it was reported in the local paper.
Any information regarding this would be much appreciated

Thanks,
Rainbow


Kia ora from Kiwiland, Rainbow,
I haven't heard of this episode, but then, I haven't been in New Plymouth since Oct 1957. I didn't hear anything about it at the time but I suppose it could have happened after we sailed? I have asked one of our local newspapers to help in the search and will keep in contact. I wish you well in your quest and hope it all turns out well. Vix.

lagerstedt
12th February 2006, 05:37
I have sent an email to the shipping officer at Port Taranaki reqesting Information about the incident. There is a Seafarers centre at the port. I will also asked the local newspaper if they have any information.

I will report back when I have the information.

Regards

Blair Lagerstedt.
NZ

ruud
12th February 2006, 05:59
Ahoy Rainbow,



Welcome aboard, enjoy yourself on this fine ship and her crew, as we do; looking forward to your postings.
From Holland

tom nicholson
12th February 2006, 11:04
nice to have you on the site rainbow enjoy it .
cheers tom (*))

rainbow
12th February 2006, 13:16
I thought I'd bring you all up to date with my inquiry. On another site that I posted the same request, a member recalls a further incident during the voyage. I didn't mention it because I didn't want to deflect interest from my objective.

Here's what I posted;

There's no doubt the lengthy voyage that the British Monarch was undertaking at that time was eventful.
It is true that the 2nd Mate fell over the wall whilst reading the log and was in the water for 9 hrs. The ship turned around on discovery of him missing, found him and hauled him aboard. Lucky man and deservedly so.

The person who related the incident to L.M.R.S Newsletter (ship's radio officer) also said that 'Victoria Drummond' was the British Monarch's 2nd Engineer on that trip. This checks out with her biographer Cherry Drummond.
Here is an extract of a few of the ships she sailed in for that period;
MV Lord Canning 1956
SS Concha 1956
MV British Monarch 1957
MV Adventuress 1958
SS Grelrosa 1959-60

To further complicate matters there is a photogragh of the graveside service but a female cannot be identified in the group of mourners, all officers and men were in attendance. EXCEPT the 2nd Engineer and 1st Mate who had to stay on board to look after the ship.
Thanks for all help.

lagerstedt
13th February 2006, 02:12
Today I recieved an email from the shipping officer at the Taranaki Harbour Board. He said all records for the period have been passed on. He says he remembers reading about the incident in the port records and he has given me a name to contact. I will make contact and see what the port records say.

Regards
Blair Lagerstedt
NZ

rainbow
13th February 2006, 11:29
I'm very grateful, Blair. I look forward to your next message
Thanks again,
Tony

Tony D
13th February 2006, 13:41
Did a few phosphate runs from Oz- Naru Oz - Christmas Island on the British Monarch,(Harrisons of Clyde) this would be in 1962/63 I think,never heard that story though,she was famous for having the only female Second Engineer in the Merchant Navy serving on her at one time, but again before my time.
I did hear the story about the second Mae taking a dive off the wing of the bridge and being miraculesly picked up again but again that was brfore I joined her.
You are dead right about the length of the voyages,I did some short trips on her,PortChurchill for grain,back to Hull, a couple of times,was a bit fed up with paying off with not much coin or leave,so the Captain (Huggins a great character) says we have a BI general cargo charter ,medi ports,Red Sea Durban then back home, six months, we jumped at the chance,we did not see home again for near two years,Captain Huggins didn't do the trip he payed off sick,so he must have been laughing up his sleeve,
Happy Days
Tony D

rainbow
13th February 2006, 14:23
The response to this inquiry has been excellent. I've posted a photo of the graveside ceremony in The Photo Gallery / Members faces. It might stir a memory.
Ever grateful,
Tony

vix
15th February 2006, 05:37
Have asked for help from the New Plymouth Newspapers...haven't had a reply yet, will keep trying. Vix

rainbow
15th February 2006, 18:23
Thanks Vix

lagerstedt
17th February 2006, 04:04
Today I received a email from the info officer, New Plymouth District Council who own and run "Puke Ariki" the district museum and library. He says he has had a number of requests for the information.

He has sent the following which appeared in the death notices of the New Plymouth news paper (Taranaki Herald) 5 March 1958.

GRAMMAN, Robert Ian - (Result of a drowning accident) At New Plymouth 4 March 1958, beloved son of Mr and Mrs R.P Gramman, Gourock, Scotland, aged 18 years.

The funeral will leave St Andrew's Presbyterian Church, Liardet Street, New Plymouth, tomorrow March 6 for Te Henui cemetery at the conclusion of a service which commences at 3.15pm. Freinds please accept this as an intimation.

d249 Voster & Hingston

When I get more info I will pass it on.

Regards

Blair Lagerstedt
NZ

vix
17th February 2006, 07:30
Very sorry, I tried various local newspapers and couldn't even get an acknowledgment, let alone a reply. Vix

rainbow
17th February 2006, 13:20
Well it's done, and on behalf of Liverpool Retired Merchant Seafarers, I would like to thank everyone who participated in the search for the requested info. I turned on my PC this morning and I found several messages informing me of success. So I would like to convey my own 'Thank You' to all members who took up the task, especially Blair and Vix for their determination.

Below is a copy of the message I received off Puke Ariki Library's research dep't.

Dear Tony,
Thank you for your enquiry about the young sailor who died while rescuing two girls in trouble near the ‘British Monarch’.
Although this is proving to be a challenge, we are a little closer to finding the information. The first request dated it ‘in the forties or fifties’, giving us a broad time span to check. Your dates ‘about 40/50 years ago’ are similarly broad.
Unfortunately we have no index of newspaper reports, or even of ship visits to Port Taranaki. So we have been looking at newspapers for the dates supplied. You can appreciate that it is made more difficult by the lack of a name to go on.
We have also asked some key informants, and had no luck with these until two days ago. One informant remembers the event as having occurred some time after she fell off her bicycle, an event that made the front page of the newspaper and which occurred on February 21 1956. She suggests 1960 as a likely year.
One of your colleagues from the Hawkes Bay has made a request for the same information, and puts the year at 1957. A search of newspaper records for that year has so far failed to reveal the story.
It is most likely that the event would have made the front page of the local newspapers, the Daily News and the Taranaki Herald.
I am confident that we will find the information eventually. We are using several resources, including an index to scrapbooks compiled by Fred B. Butler which is the most likely place we will find the information.
The nearest graveyard to the harbour is an Urupa that is the burial place of Dicky Barrett and his family. I have asked the Cemetery officer at the local council to look through his records for likely candidates.
I will let you know as soon as we have more detail about the event.
* * * * * * * * *
Here is the funeral notice transcribed from the Taranaki Herald of 5 March 1958:
CRAMMAN, Robert Ian. – (Result of a drowning accident.) At New Plymouth, on Tuesday, March 4, 1958, beloved son of Mr. and Mrs. R. P. Cramman, Gourock, Scotland; aged 18 years.
The funeral will leave from St. Andrew’s Presbyterian Church, Liardet Street, New Plymouth, tomorrow, Thursday, March 6, for Te Henui Cemetery at the conclusion of a service commencing at 3:15 p.m. Friends please accept this intimation.
* * * * * *

Bill Howard
Information Services Officer
--------------------------------
Puke Ariki and District Libraries

vix
17th February 2006, 18:56
A brave man who lies far from his home...he deserves every accolade we can give him...There is nothing more one can ask of a man than the fact that he gave his life to save another one! Vix

lagerstedt
17th February 2006, 19:40
It's been a pleasure assisting. We can only wait and see what the info officer finds. He's doing a great job given the info supplied to him.

Regards

Blair Lagerstedt
NZ

rainbow
18th February 2006, 22:01
As the person who requested information surrounding the apprentice's story. I think that it would be callous of me just to say "thank you" and let the thread drift into the distance without affording a proper tribute to our young hero. Particularly as he lies in another land so far from home. Albeit a friendly country, that is populated by friendly people
For our part. The Liverpool Retired Merchant Seafarers, having identified his name and where the location of the lad's grave is, will now have to make some arrangements to have a suitable commemoration for him. Even if it is a single flower placed by his headstone by someone who is aware of the lad's supreme sacrifice.
We do have members who travel to New Zealand occasionally, and I'm sure they would happily perform a dignified intimate ceremony at the graveside for him, but it could be some time before they get there. But that is our intention and hopefully we will achieve our aim before the "setting of the sun".
Because of the uncertainty of 'when we can get there' I on behalf of L.R.M.S. would be grateful if any member of SN who lives within travelling distance to Te Henui Cemetery, could visit the grave and if possible take a photo and post it in the gallery. Judging by the interest shown by readers that would be most welcome.

Thanks,
Tony

vix
18th February 2006, 22:26
Kia ora from NZ, I don't live anywhere near New Plymouth but I will make a point of visiting this site when I am next in that area. Vix

rainbow
18th February 2006, 22:37
Thanks Vix it's very generous of you to make such an offer.
Best wishes,
Tony

rainbow
27th February 2006, 18:55
Received this cemetery map off Puke Ariki Libraries today. It clearly identifies the young lad's grave. There is also the entry in the newspaper announcing his passing
Their service (free of charge, in this instance) has been excellent. They've gone beyond what was requested of them and L.R.M.S. are truly grateful.

rainbow
27th February 2006, 19:04
Here's the death notice I couldn't pair the thumbnails in the previous message

billyboy
27th February 2006, 23:38
Whilst i have been unable to help in this quest, ihave been following it as it is a touching subject.
The efforts members have made to get what i have seen on this thread is highly commendable. well done lads. this is one of the things SN is all about.

jim barnes
28th February 2006, 00:10
I have also being following this thread and find it most heart warming to know that fellow seamen can be totaly warming to such a chalenge to remember one of many unsung heros.. may they never be forgoten..there but for the grace of God go I
Jim

John Cassels
28th February 2006, 08:57
I too have been following the thread and feel humbled when reading about it all.

When I was a young lad in Gourock , I knew of a Bob Cramman, he must have been
just about at retirement age then. I am wondering if this could have been the lad's
father or other close relative. My brother still lives in Gourock and also knew the
gentleman. Will ask him if he has ever heard anything.
If it turns out to be the same family,should I have them directed to the forum ?.
What do members think ??.

JC

beejay
28th February 2006, 08:58
Whilst i have been unable to help in this quest, ihave been following it as it is a touching subject.
The efforts members have made to get what i have seen on this thread is highly commendable. well done lads. this is one of the things SN is all about.
My sentiments exactly ,I agree with you who heartedly Billy Boy.
Brian.(extra 3rd Engineer)

rainbow
28th February 2006, 12:40
JC,
Personally, I think that is an excellent idea, I would be grateful if you could follow up your suggestion.
I'm sure Robert's living relatives would be grateful to think that the combined effort of the world's Merchant Navy has willed if not actively participated in this inquiry and brought it to a successful conclusion. It is after all a tribute to a brave and gallant young man.
You never know someone might read this thread and commemorate his selfless act with an award.

rainbow
7th March 2006, 14:55
Hello everyone,
Once again we have another example of a member going out of his way to help us achieve our objective. I received three pics of Robert Cramman's headstone.from Ray Blackley, who lives in New Zealand, and I although I've sent him a personal message of thanks, I would like to do so publicly.

One of which I will post as a thumbnail

Thanks,
Tony

John Cassels
8th March 2006, 08:02
Tony,
Contacted my brother last week. It turns out the the person I thought it might
be had a slightly different name . He also knew a Bob Cramman many moons ago
in Gourock and is still checking if the family is in the area and if so, are they relatives
of our young hero. Very touching photo of the headstone.
Will revert if anything comes up.

JC

gdynia
8th March 2006, 08:22
Rainbow

A very touching story an Unsung Hero being remembered. This site proves time and time again the compassion of the members and their unselfish help in helping others. (Applause)

thunderd
8th March 2006, 08:26
This thread certainly puts a very special meaning on the name "Merchant Seaman", I'm very proud to have been one, and I think, on this site, we have the cream of the crop.

gdynia
8th March 2006, 08:35
This thread certainly puts a very special meaning on the name "Merchant Seaman", I'm very proud to have been one, and I think, on this site, we have the cream of the crop.

Derek

As the Tina Turner Song goes Simply the Best

(Thumb)

billyboy
8th March 2006, 09:12
Couldnt agree more lads. a very sincere crew on this site. proud to be a part of it.

jonsea
10th March 2006, 13:20
Agree with everyone on this - just amazing - "hands across the water" . . . I too am proud to be a part of such an enriched network; it is truly amazing. Years ago, someone said to me "you don't have friends at sea, just Board of Trade acquaintances" . . . How wrong they were . . . (Applause)

Jon

aleddy
14th May 2006, 14:52
One of the rewards of browsing is finding a story like this, it left me with that warm inner glow which few of us can explain.
Well done the young man and well done those who brought it back to our attention.
Befitting of a place in Rememberance Day and Anzac Day. LEST WE FORGET.
He gave the ultimate sacrifice.

wee bobby
14th May 2006, 19:02
Well done to one and all a very touching story HATS OFF TO YOU ALL!!!!

R651400
19th May 2006, 08:47
One of the rewards of browsing is finding a story like this, it left me with that warm inner glow which few of us can explain.
Well done the young man and well done those who brought it back to our attention.
Befitting of a place in Rememberance Day and Anzac Day. LEST WE FORGET.
He gave the ultimate sacrifice.

...and without the intervention of SN, our young hero may have been forgotten forever.
Well done all round.

Malcolm

Frank P
19th May 2006, 10:47
A touching story.
Well done to everybody.

Frank

Clem
19th May 2006, 12:15
A very heart warming story and, a thoughtful reminder of a selfless act of bravery.

d.cramman
28th May 2006, 17:25
Rainbow , I am the younger brother of Robert Cramman who was drowned in New Plymouth harbour in the late fifties and have been reading of your search with some interest today . I was phoned yesterday by a person that I was at pre sea training with who recognised me from the story ,he remembers me being called from class to be told of my brothers death and checked the local tel directory and called me .
Your search and the reason for it has impressed me greatly and I would like to thank you for taking so much trouble on behalf of my famiy .
Is there is anything that I can help you with please ask I will assist as much as I can ?
Regards
delboy

d.cramman
28th May 2006, 18:32
I have been reading your messages ref Robbies grave and the efforts you all went to obtain the correct anwswers and I am quite literally overwhelmed at your responses and the results that you all achieved especially the KIWI lads .
Thank you all doesnt seem sufficient but it was very well done THANK YOU ALL .
God bless ,
delboy

rainbow
29th May 2006, 21:45
Hi Del, I'm sure I speak for all members when I say how nice of you to make contact.
I don't really know how to express myself in such sensitive circumstances except to say; Your family's loss at the time must have been devastating and heartbreaking, especially for your mam and dad. But proud to have such a brave and selfless son.
We were all captured by the story of the gallantry and ultimate sadness of Robbie's brave act.
As the thread shows, the quest was kept alive by messages of support from members that encompassed several continents, as well as the active participation of our Kiwi comrades who physically visited Robbie's resting place and supplied photos.
I am grateful to you for acknowledging the combined effort of all members. It's the kind of scene that if played out in a movie would raise the hairs on your neck. Many people pulling out for those who found themselves in difficulty.

I would also like to add my thanks to your former classmate and neighbour; Sandy Moodie, for contacting you. I hope you both get together and 'swing the lamp' over a long drink, and a wee dram.

Best wishes and good health,
Tony

vix
30th May 2006, 07:57
I too would like to add my sentiment to Delboy and his family, on re-reading some of the articles in this thread I found a tear falling and a lump forming in my throat; as one of the Kiwi's who tried to help I would just like to say I did nothing but try to help a shipmate in strife...something I think 99% of the people on this e-site would do. As we are wont to say out here at times...Kia kaha e hoa ma...be strong my friend! Vix

raybnz
31st May 2006, 06:36
Hi Delboy

It was a honour to have been able to get the photos for you..

My younger brother took them for me as he lives in New Plymouth.He tells me the grave is situated in a area close to native bush with plenty of NZ tuis and bellbirds making quite a song.

He spent some time there as he was taken in by the atmosphere of it all.

Ray Blackley

non descript
3rd March 2007, 16:25
The response to this inquiry has been excellent. I've posted a photo of the graveside ceremony in The Photo Gallery / Members faces. It might stir a memory.
Ever grateful,
Tony

Well done for finding and posting the photo Tony. - I have added a link to the British Monarch as it deserves its own page on SN Guides as well as its own thread.

I have also taken the liberty of moving the thread from "Hello" to its new location and also made a small edit to the title, in the hope that the hard work that Tony has put in will be rewarded with more hits and more information.

ranger66
4th March 2007, 00:39
Re the loss of Robert Crammon in NZ - I was an apprentice with him on that voyage and have responded privately to his brother with a description of events - through the haze of 50 years, along with some pictures - equally hazy! What a great job of tracking down the gravesite picture and particularly the one of the funeral posted in the Gallery. I believe it is the first time I have seen it & it brought the whole event back to me.
This was an eventful trip with our female 2nd. Eng. and the 2nd. Mate's 9 hours in the water - I have provided my take on these events in the appropriate threads. I may have the details wrong but the voyage started in Bremen through the Magellan Str. to NZ - the Canal dues were more than Messrs. Raeburn and Verel could afford, even with the cheap labour of 6 apprentices! Then Fiji - Vancouver - East Coast US - Baton Rouge - Japan- Nauru -Europe. Probably a few more legs also. For the apprentices, one of the highlights was the money we made humping mail bags that we took from Auckland to New Plymouth. Road and rail links were washed out I believe and the Post Office regs required us to be paid. Made more than a months apprentice wages!
She was a good ship with a great crowd. I wrapped up my apprenticeship on her with a spell as 3rd Mate at the end. Would love to hear from any other Monarch Line apprentices of this era, but suspect there won't be a whole lot of us left.

R.Philip Griffin
4th March 2007, 02:07
I have found the comments and actions of all concerned quite heart touching, and a trear falls as I write this, and then to receive contact from the brave man's brother really was the icing on the cake. What a superb bunch of chaps there are in the Association. Many thanks to all concerned.

non descript
4th March 2007, 08:36
Ranger66, thank you for your posting which is now located at #55

I took the liberty to move your excellent posting to this thread, as the other thread where it was placed originally, was only an auto-generated thread by the site software after a member had visited the SN Guide under British Monarch

The whole SN Guides concept is firstly, not to take away from the proper discussion thread which is here, but rather, to have in addition access to SN Guides, wherein there is a wikipedia style data-base of the item (in this case a ship) that has been mentioned in the thread.

That is why we are beginning the see these links appearing on the site.

NB. There is no way this is criticism, it is just an explanation of what the Site is trying to do.

EMMESSTEE
9th March 2007, 12:26
This story rings a bell with me - I did my pre-sea training at the James Watt College, Greenock 1958-1959 with a Derek Crammon. The Crammons lived in Gourock - Larkhill, if I remember rightly - and I can recall hearing about the accidental death of an elder brother, an apprentice with Raeburn and Verel. I think I'm right in saying that when Derek left the Watt College, he went to the company for his apprenticeship.

--------
Mike.

non descript
10th March 2007, 07:57
EMMESSTEE, thank you for your posting which is now located at #58 on this thread.

I took the liberty to move your excellent posting to this thread, as the other thread where it was placed originally (SN Guides), was only an auto-generated thread by the site software after a member had visited the SN Guide under British Monarch

The whole SN Guides concept is firstly, not to take away from the proper discussion thread which is here, but rather, to have in addition access to SN Guides, wherein there is a wikipedia style data-base of the item (in this case a ship) that has been mentioned in the thread.

That is why we are beginning the see these links appearing on the site.

NB. There is no way this is criticism, it is just an explanation of what the Site is trying to do

EMMESSTEE
10th March 2007, 12:04
Re my message #58 posted yesterday - there appears to have been some re-organisation of the thread since my posting and I was not aware of the existence of the other 57 postings when I made my post. I have now read them all and it would appear that possibly Derek and I were not in the same pre-sea class at the James Watt College - although I know that I was aware of this tragic incident from my time at the College and around Gourock.

------------
Mike.

danube4
10th March 2007, 12:32
Super Moderators, I appolagise if i have misinformed any one, and made more work for you. I was looking through sn guides discussion to see what was in there. When I clicked out I must have done something wrong as British Monarch came up on Quick Links. Sorry.
All the best.
Barney.

Scottseng
5th April 2007, 23:10
Did Robert not help out in the rescue of the crew of the m.v.Akka after she hit The Gantocks. I believe he was helping out Rab Ritchie on the late ferry from Dunoon.

John Cassels
6th April 2007, 08:17
Did Robert not help out in the rescue of the crew of the m.v.Akka after she hit The Gantocks. I believe he was helping out Rab Ritchie on the late ferry from Dunoon.


Jeez , that's a name from the past ; Rab Ritchie..........
Lady Jane Ritchie on the Gourock - Kilcreggan run . An open boat with
a single cylinder diesel . Learned to steer on the Granny Kempock , Gourock
- Helensbrough late '50's.

JC

Scottseng
6th April 2007, 23:42
Did you come across Jimmy Watson when you were there, but I think he was with Roy.

Cranky
9th August 2007, 04:29
Discussion thread for British Monarch (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/British Monarch). If you would like to add a comment, click the New Reply button

johnmilne
9th August 2007, 09:28
Discussion thread for British Monarch (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/British Monarch). If you would like to add a comment, click the New Reply button
Cranky, I remember going on board the British Monarch at the time Iwas only in short pants as they say . At that time New Plymouth had it's share of Port,Blue Star, Shaw Saville. NZSC vessels. (HomeBoats) as they were often refered to and it was good to see a different company. I remember the Second Mate showing me around.My mother happened to mention when we got home that she thought she had seen his photo in the paper. After checking around she found it. I am sorry to say I had never heard about your fellow apprentice or indeed the female Second Engineer until I read about it in SN.How it was missed I don,t know. In the seventies I was on the dredge Ngamotu for five years and he was never mentiond. I would however like to complement SN members fot getting things sorted out.
Regards
John Milne

Stan McNally
1st April 2008, 14:39
I have been reading your messages ref Robbies grave and the efforts you all went to obtain the correct anwswers and I am quite literally overwhelmed at your responses and the results that you all achieved especially the KIWI lads .
Thank you all doesnt seem sufficient but it was very well done THANK YOU ALL .
God bless ,
delboy

HelloThere,

My Name is Stan McNally and I was the R/o of the British Monarch and started the search for information on your brother and our young Hero.
We have a museum at Fort Perch Rock at New Brighton Merseyside were we are remembering the Merchant Navy. We had the story about our 2nd mate falling overboard in the Pacific and we picked up safe and well after 9 hours.
But we did not have the details of your Robert - I had forgotten - which bothered me very much but through the good old galley network all was found!!!.

I am going to NZ and New Plymouth very soon now (April 08) and if ther is anything you would personally want me to do - I will gladly do it. I am going on my own behalf because he was a "shipmate" of mine.

Best regards,

Stan McNally

sparkie2182
1st April 2008, 16:08
a kind thought stan...........

have a safe and enjoyable journey.

kia ora

John Campbell
1st April 2008, 17:38
Re the loss of Robert Crammon in NZ - I was an apprentice with him on that voyage and have responded privately to his brother with a description of events - through the haze of 50 years, along with some pictures - equally hazy! What a great job of tracking down the gravesite picture and particularly the one of the funeral posted in the Gallery. I believe it is the first time I have seen it & it brought the whole event back to me.
This was an eventful trip with our female 2nd. Eng. and the 2nd. Mate's 9 hours in the water - I have provided my take on these events in the appropriate threads. I may have the details wrong but the voyage started in Bremen through the Magellan Str. to NZ - the Canal dues were more than Messrs. Raeburn and Verel could afford, even with the cheap labour of 6 apprentices! Then Fiji - Vancouver - East Coast US - Baton Rouge - Japan- Nauru -Europe. Probably a few more legs also. For the apprentices, one of the highlights was the money we made humping mail bags that we took from Auckland to New Plymouth. Road and rail links were washed out I believe and the Post Office regs required us to be paid. Made more than a months apprentice wages!
She was a good ship with a great crowd. I wrapped up my apprenticeship on her with a spell as 3rd Mate at the end. Would love to hear from any other Monarch Line apprentices of this era, but suspect there won't be a whole lot of us left.

I attended the funeral of a Master Mariner in Aberdeen around Xmas time last year. He was Capt. Lewis McKay , a native of Dundee, late master in B.P. and I believe he served his time in the British Monarch I think in 1944 - maybe before your time.
JC

Stan McNally
10th September 2010, 17:06
Hello There,

We are off to NZ again this year - I have some photo's which I would like to send you, which we took when in New Plymouth last year.
Would you like me to send them.
Also do you have any old photo of Robbie - would like to put it with his story at Foty Perch Rock - we are writing a new Web site which should be up and running soon.

Best regards,

Stan McNally
ex R/O British Monarch

Reef Knot
19th September 2010, 09:44
Hello There,

We are off to NZ again this year - I have some photo's which I would like to send you, which we took when in New Plymouth last year.
Would you like me to send them.
Also do you have any old photo of Robbie - would like to put it with his story at Foty Perch Rock - we are writing a new Web site which should be up and running soon.

Best regards,

Stan McNally
ex R/O British MonarchYour post brought this thread to the fore. For that, thank you - its been a good read.

Please let us know when your site goes live - I'm sure SN won't mind!