Graf Spee

Phill
13th February 2006, 18:27
In reference to the salvage of the Eagle from Graf Spee, I came across this model, http://www.bismarck-class.dk/shipmodels/german_models/admiralgrafspeeterra.html....complete with shelf for glasses

Apart from museums I have only seen working models this size in Scarborough, of which used to have sea battles in the middle of the pond, any ideas if they are still there?????????????????????

Phill

trotterdotpom
13th February 2006, 22:55
In reference to the salvage of the Eagle from Graf Spee, I came across this model, http://www.bismarck-class.dk/shipmodels/german_models/admiralgrafspeeterra.html....complete with shelf for glasses

Apart from museums I have only seen working models this size in Scarborough, of which used to have sea battles in the middle of the pond, any ideas if they are still there?????????????????????

Phill

Phill, I used spent many happy hours gawping at the re-enactment of the Battle of the River Plate on Peasholme Park Lake at Scarborough. Each model ship had a man inside operating it. I found the attached photo below on a site called www.yorkshiresoul.org and it seems to have been taken in 2004 - assume it's still going but would be a bit dated by now.

John T.

Phill
14th February 2006, 17:47
Thanks for the info and Photo John, I’ve always spoken about this park, and it has always fell on deaf ears, as no one believed me, if any one is up in Scarborough its well worth a look at.

Cheers

trotterdotpom
15th February 2006, 10:20
Thanks for the info and Photo John, I’ve always spoken about this park, and it has always fell on deaf ears, as no one believed me, if any one is up in Scarborough its well worth a look at.

Cheers

It is a beautiful park and about 100 years old now so very well established, supposed to be modelled on a Japanese design, and they wrote the book.

I remember as a kid going into the public toilets. It was pitch black in there but I didn't have time to think about that, just dropped my pants and sat down. When I came out I was walking in front of my parents with my sister and all of a sudden my mother swooped on me and belted me all the way to the Open Air Theatre! It turns out that there was crap all over the back of my pants. I wouldn't have minded but it was someone else's!

Moral of the story: all you lot south of Watford, get up to Scarborough, you'll love it, just stay out of the bogs.

John T.

Fairfield
15th February 2006, 14:33
A few years ago had a holiday in Scarborough and was lucky enough to see the "battle" in Peasholme Park. PC had taken over and it was now between the Red and Blue Forces if I remember correctly although ships' names were the same- JERVIS BAY etc. Think the German warships names were changed though, again in the name of PC.
There were a few children there but drumming up enthusiasm to cheer for the good guys was pitiful in the extreme. They just had no interest whatsoever.
Glad to hear that it still seems to be in exiistence. Must dig out pics.

Gavin Gait
15th February 2006, 20:44
I have great memories of the Peasholme park sea battles , had 5 2 week long holidays in Scarborough when I was a child , and i've come across a few dozen slides I took in the mid to late 1970's and a few from 1983. Pity they've dummed it down and the PC brigade have taken over.

Davie

trotterdotpom
16th February 2006, 10:32
Forget political correctness, can't remember if 'Altmark' featured in the display or not, but today, 16/2/06 is the 66th anniversary of the Cossack Incident (see below copied from Seawaves):

1940 - The ‘Altmark Incident’. The German fleet supply ship Altmark was boarded in Jössingfjord, Norway, by a naval party from the Tribal-class destroyer HMS Cossack, Capt. Phillip Vian, CO. Embarked in Altmark were 299 British merchant seamen captured by the armored ship Admiral Graf Spee, KptzS. Hans Langsdorff, CO, during her voyage in the South Atlantic and Indian Oceans 21 Oct to 17 Dec 39. Altmark departed German on 05 Aug 39 and Graf Spee followed on 21 Aug. Altmark refueled Graf Spee for the last time on 06 Dec 39 in position 25.50S, 024.50W. After the Battle of the River Plate, Graf Spee was scuttled on 17 Dec 39. Altmark returned to the North Sea, passing north of Iceland. She was transiting through Norwegian neutral waters, en route to Germany, when she was sighted by British patrol aircraft. As a naval auxiliary, Altmark could legally claim freedom from search by foreign forces. The British light cruiser Arethusa, the name ship of her class, accompanied by the 4th Destroyer Flotilla, intercepted Altmark off the south coast of Norway. Two small Norwegian warships escorted Altmark and warned the British ships not to interfere. An offer was made to have Altmark go to Bergen under Norwegian escort where she would be searched. Orders were received from Winston Churchill, First Lord of the Admiralty, for Vian to board Altmark, which, in the meantime had diverted into Jössingfjord, claiming sanctuary. Captain Vian ignored Norwegian efforts to stop him and pursued Altmark, which ran aground in an attempt to ram the destroyer. Cossack came alongside Altmark and, with cries of "The Navy’s Here!", boarded the ship to liberate the prisoners. Altmark was refloated at the next high tide and was towed back to Germany in Mar 40. After repairs, she was renamed Uckermark and returned to service. Between 18 Jan and 23 Mar 41, supported Operation Berlin conducted by the battlecruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. On 09 Sep 42, Uckermark departed France for Japan, arriving on 24 Nov 42, refueling the disguised merchant raider Michel en route. Uckermark was destroyed at Yokohama on 30 Nov 42 by a major explosion that occurred during the cleaning of the ship’s cargo fuel tanks. Fifty-three of her crewmembers died in this incident. The ship was damaged beyond repair and was subsequently broken up for scrap. HMS Cossack was torpedoed by U-563, OLtzS. Klaus Bargsten, Knight’s Cross, CO, on 23 Oct 41 and foundered four days later west of Gibraltar. The ‘Altmark Incident’ was greeted with joy in Britain and the legality of it was never questioned. The Norwegians were angered by what they saw as a blatant infringement of their neutrality. The Incident also convinced Adolph Hitler that Norway and Denmark were neither willing nor able to protect their neutrality against aggression, and, as a result, decided it was necessary to invade both countries to prevent Allied landings

John T.

ronnie r
10th October 2006, 11:32
I was interested in this Altmark boarding story.
There was something on TV about it recently . I just wondered how many of the 299 released MN men actually survived the war?

K urgess
10th October 2006, 11:54
In 2000 on a visit to Norway I met one of the RN ratings from the Cossack that boarded the Altmark.
He was either the first or the second on board.
I think he was travelling to the site for the first time since the incident. My mother had a long conversation with him because she remembered it being reported when she was living in Stavanger in 1940.
The usual self-affacing "just doing my job" sort of chap.
I hope he's still around.

Jeffers
10th October 2006, 16:34
In reference to the salvage of the Eagle from Graf Spee, I came across this model, http://www.bismarck-class.dk/shipmodels/german_models/admiralgrafspeeterra.html....complete with shelf for glasses

Phill

There was, I believe, a thread about this model some months ago.
Quite an impressive acheivement, but I was rather baffled by the builder having ME 109 E on the bow, which was a fighter aircraft designation.