Turnbull Scotts

sam2182sw
16th February 2006, 19:40
Hi Thats A Blast From The Past Who Remembers This Old Company Any Ships Names And Photos Sam2182sw

Jim S
16th February 2006, 20:08
As I remember (1960's) Turnbull Scott had a mixed fleet of dry cargo ships, Baxtergate, Southgate, and Sungate, and tankers Eastgate and Stonegate.
While working in offshore oil industry, a colleague had been 2nd Eng. on Eastgate a steam turbine tanker built to the same design as Shell's "H"-Class by J.L Thompson, Sunderland in 1957.
He certainly could tell some tales of their exploits. Eastgate sank at Hong Kong in March 1973 after being seriously damaged by fire resulting from a collision with a vessel called Circea.
By coincidence the Lloyds Surveyor responsible for oil platform certification was Chief Engineer of Eastgate.

sam2182sw
17th February 2006, 13:57
HI JIM S thanks for that i hope i get more info sam

SCOTHEDE
6th March 2006, 20:57
I did two trips on the Eastgate as 4th engineer and left her in Singapore just before she sailed on her last trip to Hongkong. If I remember correctly she collided with another ship whilst entering Hongkong harbour and caught fire but did not sink. When the fire was out the engineers were able to return to her, start up the boilers and discharge the cargo from the undamaged tanks. Turnbull Scott then sold her.

Jim S
6th March 2006, 21:21
I did two trips on the Eastgate as 4th engineer and left her in Singapore just before she sailed on her last trip to Hongkong. If I remember correctly she collided with another ship whilst entering Hongkong harbour and caught fire but did not sink. When the fire was out the engineers were able to return to her, start up the boilers and discharge the cargo from the undamaged tanks. Turnbull Scott then sold her.

Was the Chief Engineer Marnoch Thompson?
There was also a 2nd Engineer Ray Dickenson although he might not have been onboard at the time of the accident.

SCOTHEDE
7th March 2006, 19:58
Chief engineer when I left was Ian Murcott.
Marnoch Thompson was engineering superintendent.

Jim S
7th March 2006, 20:23
Chief engineer when I left was Ian Murcott.
Marnoch Thompson was engineering superintendent.

Marnoch Thompson was Lloyds Surveyor for North Sea Oil Installations based in Aberdeen.

pierhead jumper
9th March 2006, 19:12
Sam,Re.turnbull scott.There is a good history of this company in"Travels of the Tramps" Vol.3 by Norman Middlemiss with 7 photos.IBSN 1 871128 080.May be out of print now though was published 1992. Pierhead jumper.

sam2182sw
9th March 2006, 19:40
hi pierhead jumper thanks for that i will be looking that up sam

patricklane
20th June 2006, 12:24
T on the funnel and not on the table. One time third mate on the Baxtergate

R58484956
20th June 2006, 14:22
Turnbull fleet 1953. Baxtergate 7072 tons 1944, Flowergate 4800 tons 1953?, Southgate 7209 tons 1943, Stonegate 6949 tons 1941, Waynegate 7416 tons 1944.

Thomson
16th December 2006, 17:02
Eastgate Collision 30th March 1973. (Hope this answers previous queries.)

0630 Eastgate anchored Hong Kong awaiting pilot.Local fog bank descended.
Departing cargo vessel Cirea direct hit Eastgate on starboardside No2 wing and centre tank.Undamaged Cirea withdrew.Eastgate spilling cargo ignited - sea ablaze.

Eastgate people all escaped to sea in vessels lifeboats and by jumping.
Rescued by a Chinese junk and police patrol boats and taken to nearest hospital.Very sadly three lives were lost.Vessel made safe by fire department and dockyard works at anchorage permitted towing to discharge berth.
Machinery restarted by a few ships engineers out of hospital. Cargo discharged and tankcleaning completed by the Captain and two mates also discharged from hospital.
In drydock vessel found twisted and declared a constructive total loss.

Eastgate and her compliment were totally faultless. All were outstanding and acts of extreme courage occured. Everyone a hero in the finest traditions of the British Merchant Service.

Binnacle
8th February 2007, 09:48
A Turnbull Scott superintendent flew out to Tunis where the Redgate (?) was undergoing storm damage repairs. Would this have been you by any chance ?. I was on the Salvesen managed Virgilia. Along with the master of Redgate ? I was treated to dinner in the Tunis Hotel by the this super, as I had been in a position to render some minor agency help. The exact year unknown, probably early seventies.

Baltic Wal
8th February 2007, 16:33
Sam,Re.turnbull scott.There is a good history of this company in"Travels of the Tramps" Vol.3 by Norman Middlemiss with 7 photos.IBSN 1 871128 080.May be out of print now though was published 1992. Pierhead jumper.

The WSS did a better history by H S Appleyard, covers ships and histories up to 1978 with a lot of photo's

wa002f0328
8th February 2007, 18:23
anyone remember Jimmy Young, 2nd mate on Stonegate in the 50s?

KenLin39
8th February 2007, 23:59
Hi. Quite a few photos in thie site below. Ken.

http://www.shawsavillships.co.uk/other.htm

Thomson
21st February 2007, 15:28
A Turnbull Scott superintendent flew out to Tunis where the Redgate (?) was undergoing storm damage repairs. Would this have been you by any chance ?. I was on the Salvesen managed Virgilia. Along with the master of Redgate ? I was treated to dinner in the Tunis Hotel by the this super, as I had been in a position to render some minor agency help. The exact year unknown, probably early seventies.

No this was not me I don't think I ever attended the Redgate - it is likely to have been Walter Swan or Don Gavin or if of a later date Eddie Green.

Thomson
26th February 2007, 19:51
My original post was from memory given in good faith but during a re-trawl of the internet I have sourced more reliable information and give the following corrections.

1.Time and place - On the 30th March 1973 the Eastgate was approaching the eastern entrance to Hong Kong harbour in the recommended tanker lane at Dead Slow Ahead doing 4 knots and at 02.39 hrs was in collision with Circea at a position - 22degrees13'17'North 114degrees18'03''East bearing from Tathong light 143degree at 1.38 miles.Conditions were - Murky fog patches, with visibility less than two miles. The Circea was estimated as proceeding from port at 12 knots.

2.Eastgate managed to launch two lifeboats remaining personell jumped into the sea and everyone cleared the vessel alive. Sadly three men died in the water they were John Bernard Mac Dermott: John Walter Richard; and Aleksander Vizens.

3.The Circea had only scoring on port and starboard forward plating with one small fracture 750mm long. It is reported that Cirea returned to the scene but no report of having rescued anyone.

4.The authorities declared that -
We consider that Captain Price ( Eastgate's Master) did all that was required of him in the circumstances of the case to avoid the collision which we consider was caused by the excessive speed of the Circea and the way in which she was handled in known conditions of reduced visibility.

douglasward
14th April 2007, 13:15
The chief engineer on board at the time of the collision was Rodger Bateson.

Tynesider
4th November 2007, 18:28
I joined Turnbull Scott in 1977 and worked in their Farnborough office. The ships then included mini bulkers,small chemical tankers and a product tanker STONEGATE on charter to Shell That year they took delivery of the 29000 mt geared bulk carrier named TRONGATE.

It all seems like a lifetime ago as indeed it is

Tony Morris
6th November 2007, 13:21
I Sailed as 3/E on the "Marilock" (panamax bulk carrier) twice between Oct 82 and Feb 84, Turnbulls were managing her and another ship (Sealock I think) for Wheelock Marden - Hong Kong. Anyone know what happened to these ships?

maritiem
8th November 2007, 12:53
The London branch of the three Turnbull tramp fleets was to have the greatest longevity, existing as shipowners for 109 years. Thomas Turnbull of Whitby had recognized the future importance of the Baltic Exchange in finding employment for his Whitby tramp fleet, and he had despatched his 21 year old third son Reginald March Turnbull and his cousin of the same age, Robert Turnbull Scott, to London in early 1869 to familiarise themselves with the London market before establishing a branch office. They worked as clerks in a shipbrokers office for three years before entering business in January,1872 as Turnbull, Scott & Co. at 85, Qracechurch Street as ship and insurance brokers with the main aim of obtaining charters for the Whitby tramp fleet.

The partners were financed by a loan from Thomas Turnbull, and in March, 1872 both partners were elected members of the Baltic Exchange, which originated as two coffee houses in the 17th Century where shipmasters and merchants could discuss their business. The first charter party had been concluded on 3rd February, 1872 for the barque WATERSPRITE operated by Turnbull of Whitby to take a cargo of coal from the Tyne to Alexandria. Their first year of trading as charterers of ships on the Eternal Triangle route of coal out to the Mediterranean, ballast to the Black Sea, and grain homewards made a modest profit of £608, which was shared between them.

The commissions from the charters that the three Turnbull offices at Whitby, Cardiff and London charged each other were put on a firm comercial basis by Thomas Turnbull from New Year's Day, 1889. Although market conditions were poor in 1880, the decision was taken by Thomas Turnbull that the London and Cardiff branch houses, the latter trading as Turnbull Brothers from 1877, should enter shipowning and two iron sister tramps were reserved at the Whitby yard for launch in March/April,1882. HIGHGATE of 1950 dwt was launched first on 4th March, 1882 named after the London suburb in which both partners were living and also the old name for the Eastern end of Church Street in Whitby. The two partners held equally 46 of her 64 shares with the Turnbull family and friends in Whitby holding most of the remainder. HIGHGATE was towed from Whitby to Hartlepool for installation of her compound steam engine costing £5,525 out of her contract price of £20,250. After returning to Whitby for fitting out, trials were held off Hartlepool and she ballasted to Swansea to load a maiden cargo of patent fuel for Alexandria, followed by ballasting to Taganrog in the Black Sea to load wheat for Rotterdam.
The iron tramp SOUTHGATE (1) was launched at Whitby on 23rd April,1883 with slightly increased dimensions than HIGHGATE and her major shareholders were Whitby and Robin Hood's Bay trades people who had a business relationship with the Whitby shipyard.

HIGHGATE and SOUTHGATE (1) continued on Black Sea trading together with the first steel tramp fitted with triple expansion engines, which was launched at Whitby on 26th May,1888 as NORTHGATE by Frances, wife of Reginald Turnbull, and was taken on her maiden voyage to the Black Sea. However she gave only nine years service, going ashore on a sandbank at Sharpness on 22nd December, 1897 and subsequently breaking her back.
Six more steel tramps were built at Whitby for Turnbull, Scott & Co. with the last being named SOUTHGATE (2) of 5900 dwt on 4th November,1899 by one of the daughters of Robert Turnbull Scott. The first SOUTHGATE had been sold four months earlier to Swedish owners, and the pioneer HIGHGATE had sunk off Lundy Island on 19th February,1890 after a collision with a Canadian sailing ship while on passage from Mostyn to Cardiff. The London tramp fleet was thus operating six tramps at the turn of the century.

Robert Turnbull Scott died on 6th August,1903 aged 55 years and as he had no son to succeed him, his share in Turnbull, Scott & Co. was purchased from him under the deeds of partnership by Reginald Turnbull and his son, March. Reginald died on 12th July,1912 aged 64 years and his son received many letters of condolence from clients and fellow members of the Baltic Exchange. March Turnbull became head of the company, and his brothers Noel and Thomas were admitted as partners in 1913.
Turnbull,Scott & Co. continued to act as London chartering agents for the Turnbull fleet at Whitby until the end of the first World War, and also for other Whitby owners notably Capt. Thomas Smailes, whose early seagoing career had been with Turnbull. His ELLERDALE and DARNHOLME, FAIRHAVEN, ESKDALE, BAGDALE and others were regularly fixed until the Smailes family ceased as shipowners at the end of World War 1.
The London office followed the experiment of the Whitby office into limited liability companies in 1906, when their PARKGATE of 1906 completed by R. Craggs & Son on the Tees was registered in 1908 under the Parkgate S.S. Co. Ltd. NETHERGATE (1) of 1890 grounded on the English Bank in the Plate on 11th July,1909, and was refloated in 1910 and declared a constructive total loss and sold locally there for further service after repairs.

The Turnbull Scott Shipping Co. Ltd was formed in May, 1911 with a capital of £50,000 and took over SOUTHGATE (2) of 1899, TRONGATE of 1897, WESTGATE of 1893 and EASTGATE of 1889. EASTGATE of 1889 was sold in 1913 to Swedish owners leaving four tramps in the fleet at the outbreak of the first World War: WESTGATE of 1893, TRONGATE of 1897, SOUTHGATE (2) of 1899 and PARKGATE of 1906, two being lost to enemy action:
04.04.1917 PARKGATE Captured amd sunk by U35 80 miles NE of Cap de Fer.
22.09.1917 TRONGATE Torpedoed and sunk by UC71 5 miles N of Flamborough Head on voyage Tyne to France with coal.

This left WESTGATE of 1893, SOUTHGATE (2) of 1899, the new EASTGATE (2) of 1915, completed by William Gray & Co. Ltd at West Hartlepool and HELREDALE of 1906, transferred from the Whitby fleet in 1918.
WESTGATE was reported missing on 8th January,1919 off the Wolf Rock whilst on a voyage from Barry to Malta with coal, cause unknown.

The Redgate S.S. Co. Ltd was formed in 1919 and purchased the steamer GORDONIA of 6720 dwt, built by John Readhead & Sons Ltd in 1908 and capable of a top speed of 7.5 knots on 20 tons of coal/day, from the Gordon S.S. Co. Ltd of London and renamed her REDGATE.

A system of competitive tender for ex German prizes taken over by the British Government as war reparations resulted in five such vessels joining the Redgate and Turnbull Scott Shipping companies for a total of £227,000 between 1920 and 1923. They were renamed SANDGATE, WHITEGATE, FLOWERGATE, NETHERGATE and BAXTERGATE, and all had previously belonged to the Hansa company of Bremen and were thus cargoliners with excellent accomodation for the crew. However when loading coal it was found with their tween decks and relatively small hatches, trimming costs were higher, and although suitable for the Plate trade they were always forced to top up with grain downriver from the Martin Garcia Bar due to their deep draft. A good loaded speed of 11 knots incurred a coal consumption of around 34 tons of coal/day, a figure which could not be tolerated when freight rates became much worse during the Depression.

SOUTHGATE(2) of 1899 was sold to Italian breakers for £8,000 in October,1924. The ex Cardiff tramp CHALISTER was purchased in 1924 and renamed HAGGERSGATE, and ARABISTAN of F.C. Srick & Co. Ltd was purchased on the stocks at the Readhead shipyard at South Shields and completed as SOUTHGATE (3) in November, 1926.

The death of Charles Radcliffe of Cardiff in July, 1926 whose elder brother Henry had founded the famous Cardiff tramp company of Evan Thomas Radcliffe, resulted in the sale of his fleet, of which three were purchased by Court Line Ltd and two by Turnbull, Scott & Co. Ltd. The latter pair were OVERSTONE and SNOWDON, renamed SALTERSGATE (1) and TRONGATE (2). Both tramps met with unfortunate accidents on their maiden voyages for the company: TRONGATE (2) left Cardiff on 9th April,1927 bound for Buenos Aires with coal but shortly after sailing was in collision with the tramp EUTERPE and had to put into Barry to discharge before moving back to Cardiff for repairs.

SALTERSGATE (1) loaded coal at Cardiff for Ibicuy on a tributary of the Parana, but went aground on a mud bank just above the Martin Garcia Bar when taking action to avoid collision on 14th May,1927. On falling tides she remained there for a week until barges were brought from Buenos Aires to lighten her, and on arrival at Ibicuy the pilot was arrested. SALTERSGATE loaded grain there for Hamburg where she arrived on 2nd August,1927.

The 9120 dwt STONEGATE was completed by William Doxford & Sons Ltd in January,1928, and her maiden voyage was down to Rio with coal and on to the Plate to load grain for the Continent.
The former Whitby tramp HELREDALE was sold to Greek owners in 1929, and three sister tramps of 7950 dwt ordered from the Burntisland yard just before the Depression set in in late 1929 and were completed in 1930/31 as SKELDERGATE, ESKDALEGATE and WAYNEGATE. These were Economy type tramps with an average speed of around 9 knots on a consumption of 19 tons of coal/day. However the accomodation as regards crew comfort left much to be desired, and they were also noted for excessive stern-slide in heavy weather. With the completion of this trio the two Turnbull, Scott companies owned a medium-sized fleet of 15 tramps. However five were laid-up for long periods: FLOWERGATE, WHITEGATE, NETHERGATE and SANDGATE on the Tyne for six years, seven years, three years and five years respectively, and BAXTERGATE at Palmouth for over three years.
Prior to her lay-up on the Tyne NETHERGATE had loaded a cargo of asphalt at Tampico for the Anglo-Mexican Petroleum Co. Ltd for South African ports, after which she took a cargo of coal from Lourenco Marques to Singapore. On completion of discharge at Singapore she was taken on time charter by Lambert Brothers for a homeward voyage, redelivery Northern Europe. She was then taken on time-charter at Cardiff at the end of 1928 to Strick Line for a Persian Gulf Round voyage. Among the ports she called at were Marseilles, Port Said, Port Sudan, and the Persian Gulf ports of Bandar Abbas, Bahrein, Abadan, Basra etc returning via Suez to Avonmouth and Barry, where she redelivered on 13th June,1929. She was again time-chartered by Strick Line for a repeat voyage arriving back at London on 17th October, 1929 for discharge before laying-up on the Tyne.

The remainder of the fleet were kept going with only short waits at the end of each voyage before the next charter. SALTERSGATE (1) was laid-up from May to July,1933 after which she was engaged in Plate trading. HAGGERSGATE was laid-up at Avonmouth from June, 1932 moving round to Milford Haven in August and then to Fowey in November to continue lay-up. On her return to service in December,1933 she met with a series of accidents, starting with heavy weather in the Channel on sailing from Fowey for Cardiff to bunker resulting in her being towed into Brest, where she drydocked. A further dry docking at Cardiff and then she loaded coal at Barry, sailing on 11th January, 1934. When approximately 70 miles NW of Cape Finisterre she lost all propeller blades together with a broken stern frame and rudder unshipped, and was towed into Ferrol by EASTGATE (2). She was towed back to Cardiff by tugs and eventually sailed with coal to Buenos Aires and Rosario on 29th March, 1934. On her return home in December, 1934 she became disabled while moving from Birkenhead to Barry and was towed in by the ESKDALEGATE.

The fleet position on New Year's Day,1934 was as follows:
EASTGATE (2) On passage Buenos Aires for Manchester with grain.
ESKDALEGATE At Rosario 20th December.
FLOWERGATE Laid-up Tyne.
HAGGERSGATE Dry-docking Cardiff, due to load coal at Barry for Buenos Aires.
SANDGATE Laid-up Tyne.
SALTERSGATE (1) Sailed Las Palmas for Plate 27th December.
SKELDERGATE At Rosario 22nd December.
SOUTHGATE Sailed Para for New York 23rd December.
STONEGATE At Basra 18th December.
TRONGATE At Buenos Aires 28th December.
WAYNEGATE Passed Madeira for Rotterdam.
WHITEGATE Laid-up Tyne.

The predominant trade was thus coal out to the Plate from the Bristol Channel and grain homewards. Occasionally outward coal cargoes were taken from Tyne and Biyth to the Mediterranean, Canaries or Cape Verde Islands, and sometimes homeward vessels were placed on the Houlder Line berth at Buenos Aires. As a break in the monotony, cargoes of coal were sometimes taken down from the East Coast U.S.A. ports of Newport News and Norfolk to Rio de Janeiro and the Plate; plus timber cargoes from U.S. Gulf ports such as Port Arthur to the same destinations. A real change was the Pacific and Australian trading offered by two year charters to Andrew Weir & Co. Ltd taking phosphates from Nauru Island to Australia, particularly Melbourne. Company ships that participated in these charters throughout the 1920s and 1930s were: BAXTERGATE (2), EASTGATE (2), REDGATE (2), FLOWERGATE and WAYNEGATE. Nitrate charters from Antofagasta and Iquique and other ports in Chile for the Nitrate Corporation were usually discharged at Continental ports.

REDGATE (2) was purchased from Stephens,Sutton Ltd of Newcastle in 1935 as RIDLEY of 1929, this owner also purchasing the laid-up SANDGATE in 1936 and WHITEGATE in January,1937 for their Scrap & Build programme. All of the fleet were trading back at sea from this latter date, and the fleet was supplemented later in 1937 by the big ANGLO-INDIAN of 10020 dwt purchased from the Nitrate Producers S.S. Co. Ltd ( Lawther, Latta ) for £50,000 and renamed BAXTERGATE (2). She was kept on the Pacific phosphate and nitrate trading of her previous owner. EASTGATE (2) of 1915 was sold to Greek owners in November,1937 and renamed ADAMANTIOS, and the fleet voyage position in January,1938 was:
BAXTERGATE (2) Passed Niton 16th January for New Orleans.
ESKDALEGATE Leaving Cristobal 2nd February for Azores.
FLOWERGATE Leaving Malta 6th February for Spain.
REDGATE (2) Sailed Shanghai 10th January for Colombo.
SALTERSGATE (1) Left Partington 20th January for U.S. Gulf.
SKELDERGATE Passed Azores 3rd February for U.S. Gulf.
SOUTHGATE Passed Ushant 8th February for U.S. Gulf.
STONEGATE Due at Cardiff 3rd February.
TRONGATE Left Lisbon 28th January for New York.
WAYNEGATE Due at Rosario 4th February.

REDGATE was discharging cargo at Shanghai in August,1937 when the Sino-Japanese War broke out. The Chinese authorities threw a boom across the Whangpoo river to prevent penetration of the harbour by Japanese submarines and REDGATE remained incarcerated at Dollar Wharf, Pootung for 20 weeks until she finally made a break for freedom through a gap pierced by the Japanese Navy during their attack on Nantao. After drydocking at Shanghai she finally sailed on 10th January for Colombo, where she loaded for North Africa, La Pallice and Nantes.

Two company tramps were lost to enemy action and a third was lost after a fire:
05.10.1939 STONEGATE Sunk by DEUTSCHLAND in position 31-10 N, 54 W on voyage Antofagasta to Alexandria with nitrate.
24.02.1941 WAYNEGATE Torpedoed and sunk by U73 in North Atlantic on voyage Newport & Gourock to Freetown with coal.
11.04.1942 TRONGATE Sunk by Allied warships off Halifax (NS) after fire had broken out in her cargo which included explosives.


Nine Dutch vessels came under the management of the company in the summer of 1940 after the fall of Holland as well as the British WIDESTONE, which was lost together with six of the Dutchmen. EMPIRE SUMMER was managed from 1942 and purchased in 1945, and the long serving Capt. H.L. Brown took the new OCEAN GALLANT away from the Portland(Me) yard in September, 1942.
March Turnbull, Chairman of the company, was appointed Director of the Ship Management Division at the Ministry of Shipping on the outbreak of war. This took control of all British and Allied merchant ships, later becoming the Ministry of War Transport. March Turnbull was in overall charge with many other Baltic Exchange men under him to manage ships of each nationality e.g. one for Greek, Estonian, Latvian, Egyptian etc. and he was knighted for his services in 1941, when he became foreign shipping adviser. Basil Mavroleon sent March Turnbull two Thompson sub-machine guns from New York in the early part of the war for his own personal use! Sir March Turnbull died on 11th October,1943 aged 65 years having served on all the Tramp Shipping Advisory and River Plate Committees during his long career.

The company fleet survivors were the new motorship EASTGATE (3) of 1940, the first in the fleet, SOUTHGATE (3) of 1926 and sold in 1946, ESKDALEGATE and her sister SKELDERGATE (1) of 1930, REDGATE (2) of 1929 and BAXTERGATE (2) of 1925, the former ANGLO INDIAN. EMPIRE SUMMER was renamed STONEGATE (2) for the Turnbull Scott Shipping Co. Ltd. The Redgate S.S. Co. Ltd was left with only one tramp in 1947 after the sale of REDGATE (2) and BAXTERGATE (2).
SKELDERGATE was then lost on the East coast of India in November,1950 on a voyage from Madras to Calcutta with wheat. She ran on to a sandbank near False Bay in heavy weather and the tramp became a total loss. Her surviving sister ESKDALEGATE was also sold in 1950, both having been on charter at times to the Golden Cross Line Mediterranean liner service half owned by the company between 1946 and 1953. The whole of the issued share capital of the Redgate S.S. Co. Ltd was purchased in 1951 by France, Fenwick & Co. Ltd.

In 1951 the Turnbull Shipping Co. Ltd owned 5 tramps, four of these being EMPIRE types together with the motortramp EASTGATE (3) of 1940. A second motortramp was on order from the Burntisland yard and was delivered in July,1952 as FLOWERGATE (2) of 9450 dwt on a six year charter to Shaw, Savill & Albion Co. Ltd. The third motortramp in the fleet was purchased in October,1953 as INVERNESS from B.J. Sutherland & Co. Ltd following the death of Sir Arthur Sutherland on 29th March,1953. Renamed REDGATE (3) she had originally been built at Burntisland in 1945 as EMPIRE FREETOWN, and was a replacement for the first motortramp EASTGATE (3), sold in 1952 to Buries Markes Ltd.

The former grain carrying merchant aircraft carrier EMPIRE MACENDRICK which had been converted back into a cargo ship at Hamburg in 1951 was purchased in 1955 and renamed SALTERSGATE (2). Two other EMPIRE types were purchased in 1955 and like their sisters in the fleet were taken on long term charter by BISCO to carry iron ore to the U.K. throughout the 1950s with the charterer also purchasing most of them for scrap around 1960.

The tanker trades were entered for the first time in November,1957 with the completion of the 18100 dwt turbine powered EASTGATE (5) by J.L. Thompson & Sons Ltd, Sunder1and. She was bare boat chartered to SHELL for 20 years but did not complete this for she was heavily damaged amidships by collision and fire off Hong Kong on 30th March,1973 and scrapped at Kaohsiung three months later. A sister, STONEGATE (3), was completed by Smiths Dock Co. Ltd on the Tees in March,1961 for a similar bareboat-charter to SHELL, and when the charter was completed she was sold to Greek owners in 1981 and broken up at Chittagong in 1987.

SUNGATE of 10800 dwt was completed by Burntisland SB Co. Ltd in January, 1958 for a long term charter to Saguenay Terminals Ltd, the company then responsible for the shipping requirements of Alcan. Her first two maiden voyages were from St John (NB) to the Continent with aluminium ingots and grain. She then settled into her intended service carrying bauxite from British and Dutch Guiana to Port Alfred on the Saguenay river, and after loading at Georgetown, Mackenzie and Smalkalden to the depth of the harbour bar she topped up at Chaguaramas in Trinidad. Ingots of aluminium were then loaded at Port Alfred for the U.K., and she ballasted back to the Guianas. As a relief from this triangular service, she occasionally took processed bauxite (alumina) from the St. Lawrence to Kittimat, 400 miles N of Vancouver, returning with ingots and timber and grain to Eastern seaboard U.S.A./Canada.

BAXTERGATE(4) of 12250 dwt was completed at Burntisland in March,1962 to a remarkably similar design to the cargo liners that were then being built for Clan Line, to whom she was chartered for her maiden voyage from Glasgow, Birkenhead and Newport to Indian ports. Shortly before arrival at Madras a fire was discovered in No. 1 tween deck but was extinguished before much damage was done to the cargo or ship. On her return to the U.K. she was chartered to China carrying general cargo from China to Cuba, where she loaded sugar for U.K./Continent/Mediterranean ports and returned to China with general cargo. She remained on this charter until 1971, when she was renamed MEDIATOR for another charter and was sold in 1972.
ARLINGTON COURT of 14100 dwt completed by Bartram & Sons Ltd in April,1962 was purchased in January,1964 and renamed SOUTHGATE (4) while still on charter to the Chinese and continued on this until sold in 1969, her maiden voyage being from Casablanca (phosphates) and Lattakia (cotton) to Shanghai.

NAESS PARKGATE was a large 72000 dwt bulker completed on the Tees by Furness SB Co. Ltd in November,1966 for a bareboat-charter to Anglo Norness Shipping Co. Ltd. Her maiden voyage was from Tubarao in Brazil with iron ore for Emden, ballast to Pascagoula in the U.S. Gulf to load grain for the Continent. She remained in these trades until taken on charter by Broken Hill Proprietary (Australia) for Australian coastal iron ore shipments in 1974 and was renamed IRON PARKGATE. She was sold in 1978 while wearing the Anglo Norness name NORDIC TRADER.
FLOWERGATE (3) was an oil/bulk/ore carrier of 106700 dwt completed in late 1968 by Gotaverken of Gothenburg for a bareboat charter to Grangesberg of Sweden carrying iron ore from West Africa to Japan then ballast back to the Persian Gulf to load crude oil for U.K./Continent. Shortly after delivery she was found to have serious engine defects and required 4 months at the Wilton yard at Rotterdam before finally sailing for Brazil in April,1969. She was purchased by her charterer in 1974 and renamed PORJUS.

The coastal drycargo trades were entered in April, 1968 by the completion of the first of a dozen 2500 3000 dwt traders to be operated by the company over the next 15 years. HOLLAND PARK was built to the order of Park Steamships Ltd but the others were owned by Turnbull Scott Shipping Co. Ltd and Coronet Shipping Ltd. All were built in Holland for management by the company but under the chartering control of Otto Danielsen of Denmark. Three were launched on one day, 18th October, 1968, when SALTERSGATE (3), HYDE PARK and REDGATE (4) were put into the water sideways. The larger ESKDALEGATE (4) of 4179 dwt was purchased from Hull Gates Shipping Co. Ltd in 1974, and three new sisters of 5662 dwt joined the fleet from the Devon yard of Appledore SB Ltd in 1976: SOUTHGATE (6) and SANDGATE (2) and GREEN PARK. SANDGATE (2) loaded 4500 tons of bagged sugar at Liverpool for her maiden voyage to Lattakia in Syria.

The coastal chemical and oil trades were entered in 1968 with the formation of Whitehall Shipping Co. Ltd, half owned by the company and A.H. Basse Rederi A/S of Copenhagen. The ships were to have stainless steel cargo tanks, a fact signified by their STAINLESS names. Three of around 3000 dwt were built between 1970 and 1974 with the larger STAINLESS SPRAY of 10400 dwt completed in 1985 and sold in 1989. The coastal tanker SKELDERGATE (2) of 3500 dwt was completed in April,1976 at Lowestoft, and underwent modification at the Wear Dockyard in early 1984 to a water conversion and storage vessel for use in the Falklands. Expansion of coastal tankers was achieved on 8th December,1981 by the purchase of the fleet of the Hull Gates Shipping Co. Ltd and the holding company Fred Parkes Holdings.
Soon after the purchase HULLGATE became a constructive total loss at Milford Haven, leaving five coastal tankers EASTGATE, WESTGATE, HUMBERGATE, NORTHGATE and IRISHGATE all on charter to Rowbotham Tankships. However on 29th November, 1982 four of these were sold to the charterer with Turnbull, Scott Shipping Co. Ltd retaining IRISHGATE with a long demise charter to Rowbotham.

A return to traditional trades had been made in September, 1977 with the delivery of the geared 29600 dwt bulker by the Hiroshima yard of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd, TRONGATE (4). She traded satisfactorily, particularly in the Plate grain trade to Japan, but her earnings did not match interest repayments and she was sold at the end of 1979 to the Nile S.S. Co. Ltd (Finance for Shipping) for £5.24M with a bareboat-charter back at £850,000/year and was finally sold to Greek owners in 1983.
In 1986 the coastal tanker SKELDERGATE was bareboat chartered to Turkish owners and purchased two years later.
Only IRISHGATE was left in 1990 and with her sale the family owned Turnbull Scott Shipping Co. Ltd was sold to British buyers for £2.45M in May,1991.

Name Built Tons Builder Notes
HIGHGATE 1882 1,451 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1890 sunk in collision off Lundy.
SOUTHGATE (1) 1883 1,779 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1899 sold to Sweden renamed OTTO, 1900 sold same name, 1902 sold idem, 1903 wrecked off Terschelling.
NORTHGATE 1888 2,354 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1897 stranded at Sharpness.
EASTGATE (1) 1889 1,675 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1913 sold to Sweden renamed AMPHITRITE, 1919 sold renamed MORIA, 1928 sold to Latvia renamed AUSMA, 1950 deleted from register.
PARKGATE (1) 1889 2,242 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1904 sold to A.H. Bull & Co., USA renamed CAROLYN, 1912 wrecked near Rockland.
NETHERGATE (1) 1890 2,253 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1909 aground and total loss, 1910 sold to Uruguay renamed MALDONADO, 1918 sold to Cie. Francaise des Chemins de Fer de Paris-Orleans, France renamed BLOIS, 1929 sold to Cie. Delmas & Vieljeux same name, 1933 scrapped.
WESTGATE 1893 2,773 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1919 sank of Wolf Rock.
TRONGATE (1) 1897 2,553 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1917 torpedoed and sunk by German submarine UC-71 near Flamborough Head.
SOUTHGATE (2) 1899 3,661 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1924 sold to Italy for scrapping.
PARKGATE (2) 1906 3,232 R. Craggs & Sons Ltd, Middlesborough 1917 captured and sunk by German submarine U-35 near Cap de Fer.
EASTGATE (2) 1915 4,277 Wm. Gray & Co. Ltd, West Hartlepool 1937 sold to Adamas S.S. Co., Greece renamed ADAMTIOS, 1940 bombed and sunk by German aircraft at La Rochelle.
HELREDALE 1906 3,574 R. Craggs & Sons Ltd, Middlesborough Ex HELREDALE, 1918 purchased from Thomas Turnbull not renamed, 1929 sold to Greece renamed KAPETAN STRATIS, 1941 bombed and sunk by German aircraft off the West Coast of Ireland.
WHITEGATE (1) 1911 5,067 J.C. Tecklenborg A.G., Geestemunde Ex ARSTERTURM built for DDG Hansa, Bremen, 1919 allocated to Great Britain as war prize, 1920 purchased renamed WHITEGATE, 1937 scrapped.
FLOWERGATE (1) 1911 5,166 J.C. Tecklenborg A.G., Geestemunde Ex SCHILDTURM built for DDG Hansa, Bremen, 1919 allocated to Great Britain as war prize, 1921 purchased renamed FLOWERGATE, 1941 sold to C. Strubin & Co., London not renamed, 1944 scuttled as a blockship at Arromanches, 1946 refloated and scrapped.
NETHERGATE (2) 1908 5,096 J.C. Tecklenborg A.G., Geestemunde Ex WARTURM built for DDG Hansa, Bremen, 1914 seized by Great Britain, 1922 purchased renamed NETHERGATE, 1932 scrapped at Rosyth.
BAXTERGATE (1) 1905 5,679 Swan, Hunter & Wigham Richardson Ltd, Newcastle Ex RHEINFELS built for DDG Hansa, Bremen, 1914 seized by Great Britain, 1923 purchased renamed BAXTERGATE, 1933 scrapped.
HAGGERSGATE 1913 5,344 D. & W. Henderson & Co. Ltd, Glasgow Ex CHALISTER built for Chalister S.S. Co., 1924 purchased from Adam Bros., Aberdeen and renamed HAGGERSGATE, 1936 sold to Seereederei Frigga, Germany renamed HODUR, 1942 torpedoed and sunk by British submarine Trident off Namsos.
SOUTHGATE (3) 1926 4,862 J. Readhead & Sons Ltd, South Shields Laid down as ARABISTAN for F.C. Strick but completed as SOUTHGATE for TS, 1946 sold to Norway renamed OTTEID, 1947 sold to Greece renamed DIMITRIOS A. KYDONIEFS, 1960 scrapped at Hong Kong.
SALTERSGATE (1) 1924 3,940 Northumberland Shipbuilding Co., Newcastle-upon-Tyne Ex OVERSTONE, 1927 purchased from Rochdale S.S. Co. and renamed SALTERSGATE, 1944 sold to MOWT and sunk as a breakwater of Mulberry Harbour.
STONEGATE (1) 1928 5,044 Wm. Doxford & Sons, Sunderland 1939 sunk by gunfire from German pocket battleship DEUTSCHLAND.
ESKDALEGATE (1) 1930 4,250 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1950 sold to C. Macprang Jr., Flensburg, Germany renamed HOLSTEIN, 1960 sold to Brazil renamed MARISSA, 1971 wrecked.
WAYNEGATE (1) 1931 4,260 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1941 torpedoed and sunk by German submarine U-73.
EASTGATE (3) 1940 5,032 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1952 sold to Buries Markes, London renamed LA ESTANCIA, 1959 sold to Greece renamed KAPETAN KOSTIS, 1966 scrapped.
STONEGATE (2) 1941 6,949 Short Bros. Ltd, Sunderland Ex EMPIRE SUMMER, 1945 purchased from Minstry of War Transport not renamed 1946 renamed STONEGATE, 1955 sold to Germany renamed HASTEDT, 1959 sold to China renamed HO PING WU SHI ER, 1967 renamed ZHAN DOU 52, 1973 renamed HO PING 52, 1984 deleted from Lloyd’s Register.
SOUTHGATE (4) 1943 7,209 J. L. Thompson & Sons Ltd, Sunderland Ex EMPIRE BRUTUS built for Minstry of War Transport, ex VERGMOR 1948, 1950 purchased from Haddon S.S. Co. and renamed SOUTHGATE, 1955 sold to Turkey renamed FAITH, 1967 sold for demolition, 1968 scrapped.
WAYNEGATE (2) 1944 7,416 Bartram & Sons Ltd, Sunderland Ex MULLION CAVE built for the Admiralty, ex MARGARET CLUNIES 1948, 1951 purchased renamed WAYNEGATE, 1961 sold to Greece renamed KATINGO, 1964 sold to the Philippines renamed PRESIDENT MAGSAYSAY, 1968 renamed MAGSAYSAY, 1968 scrapped.
BAXTERGATE (3) 1944 7,072 Shipbuilding Corp. Ltd, Sunderland Ex EMPIRE COWDRAY built for Minstry of War Transport, ex Granhill 1948, 1951 purchased from Goulandris Bros., London renamed BAXTERGATE, 1960 scrapped.
FLOWERGATE (2) 1952 4,894 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1964 sold to Panama renamed AMENTY, 1977 scrapped at Troon.
REDGATE (3) 1945 7,132 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland Ex EMPIRE FREETOWN built for Minstry of War Transport, ex INVERNESS 1946, 1953 purchased from B.J. Sutherland & Co., Newcastle and renamed REDGATE, 1963 sold to Panama renamed AGIA ELPIS, 1967 sold to Cyprus same name, 1968 scrapped.
SALTERSGATE (2) 1944 4,975 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland Ex EMPIRE MACKENDRICK built for Minstry of War Transport, ex GRANPOND 1947, ex CONDOR 1951, 1955 purchased from Panama and renamed SALTERSGATE, 1957 sold to Bulgaria renamed VASSIL LEVSKY, 1967 trapped in Great Bitter Lake, 1975 released and scrapped.
EASTGATE (4) 1944 7,372 Litgows Ltd, Port Glasgow Ex TREVIDER, 1955 purchased from Hain S.S. Co., London and enamed EASTGATE, 1956 sold to Bulgaria renamed BALKAN, 1968 scrapped.
PARKGATE (3) 1945 7,133 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland Ex EMPIRE CALSHOT built for Minstry of War Transport, ex DERRYCUNIHY, ex ARGOBEAM, 1955 purchased from Argobeam Shipping and renamed PARKGATE, 1960 sold to Lebanon renamed PANAGOS, 1968 scrapped.
EASTGATE (5) 1957 12,166 J. L. Thompson & Sons Ltd, Sunderland Tanker, 1973 damaged in collision with CIRCEA, towed to Hong Kong and sold to Panama renamed GREAT FAREASTERN and scrapped.
SUNGATE Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1968 sold to Cyprus renamed ELIKON, 1978 sold renamed LISA, 1983 sold renamed MONTEVIDEO, 1984 scrapped.
STONEGATE (3 ) 1961 12,270 Smith’s Dock Co. Ltd, Middlesborough Tanker, 1981 sold to Greece renamed SUNNY, 1987 scrapped.
BAXTEGATE (4) 1962 8,813 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1971 renamed MEDIATOR on charter, 1972 renamed BAXTERGATE, 1972 sold to Argrentina renamed MARVALIENTE, 1981 damaged by fire, sold renamed BRAVO NECK, 1981 sunk in collision.
SOUTHGATE (5) 1962 9,571 Bartram & Sons Ltd, Sunderland Ex ARLINGTON COURT, 1964 purchased from Court Line, London and renamed SOUTHGATE, 1969 sold to Wm. Brandts, London renamed GELA, 1977 sold not renamed, 1985 sold renamed CYCLOPUS, 1986 scrapped.
NAESS PARKGATE 1966 40,767 Furness Shipbuilding Co., Ltd, Haverton Hill-on-Tees 1974 renamed IRON PARKGATE on charter, 1975 renamed NORDIC TRADER, 1978 sold to Liberia renamed PANAMAX URANUS, 1984 renamed PANAMAX SOLAR, 1985 scrapped.
FLOWERGATE (3) 1968 58,589 A/B Gotaverken, Gothenburg 1974 sold to Granges A/B, Sweden renamed PORJUS, 1978 sold to Liberia renamed UNITED VENTURE, 1980 sold renamed SAAR ORE.
SALTERSGATE (3) 1968 1,426 Scheepswerf De Vooruitgang, Foxhol 1976 sold to Panama renamed LUSTAR, 1982 sold renamed LADY NINA.
REDGATE (4) 1968 1,426 Scheepswerf Gebr. van Diepen, Waterhuizen 1977 sold to Panama renamed ANNEMIEKE, 1978 foundered off Petershead.
WAYNEGATE (3) 1971 1,594 Ast. Construcciones S.A., Vigo 1976 renamed MONKCHESTER on charter, 1978 sold to Charles M. Willie & Co., Cardiff renamed CELTIC VENRURE, 1991 sold renamed Lydia Flag.
TRONGATE (3) 1968 1,432 E.J. Smit & Zoon’s Scheepswerf N.V., Westerbroek Ex HOLLAND PARK, 1971 transferred from Park Steamships and renamed TRONGATE, 1973 sold to Denmark renamed NINA LONBORG, 1976 sold to Oost Atlantic Lijn renamed ADINE, 1977 sold to Lebanon renamed MUHIEDDINE.
HIGHGATE (2) 1972 1,600 E.J. Smit & Zoon’s Scheepswerf N.V., Westerbroek 1982 sold renamed MARIA, 1984 renamed MARIA I.
WHITEGATE (2) 1972 1,600 Scheepswerf Gebr. van Diepen, Waterhuizen 1982 sold renamed HELENA, 1986 sold renamed TALEA.
ESKDALEGATE (2) 1969 2,889 Schiffswerft Neptun, Rostock Tanker, Ex BRUNI, ex FREDERICKSGATE, 1974 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping and renamed ESKDALEGATE, 1977 sold to Cyprus renamed ELISABETH.
NORDIC TRADER See NAESS PARKGATE.
BAXTERGATE (5) 1976 1,598 E.J. Smit & Zoon’s Scheepswerf N.V., Westerbroek 1980 sold renamed BALLYKERN.
SKELDERGATE (2) 1976 1,599 Richards Shipbuilders Ltd, Lowestoft Tanker, 1983 sold renamed CABO AZUL, 1984 repurchased renamed SKELDERGATE, 1986 sold renamed YASEMIN S, 1990 sold renamed TIGER CAT.
FLOWERGATE (4) 1976 1,598 Scheepswerf Gebr. van Diepen, Waterhuizen 1982 sold to Intermarine Rotterdam renamed BLOEMPOORT, 1983 sold renamed WHITEHALL, 1985 sold renamed CHIVAS, 1988 sold renamed MARATHON, 1996 sold renamed REDA, 2002 sold renamed AL KARIM.
SOUTHGATE (6) 1976 3,687 Appledore Shipbuilders Ltd, Appledore 1983 sold to Turkey renamed FERAY, 1983 sold renamed SOUTHERN STAR, 1984 sold renamed UGUR YILDIZI, 1991 sold renamed AGIOS SPYRIDON.
SANDGATE (2) 1976 3,687 Appledore Shipbuilders Ltd, Appledore 1982 sold to J. Fisher renamed ATLANTC FISHER, 1988 sold to Arklow Shipping, Ireland renamed ARKLOW BEACH.
SALTERSGATE (4) 1976 3,687 Appledore Shipbuilders Ltd, Appledore Ex GREEN PARK, 1977 purchased renamed SALTERSGATE, 1982 sold renamed HERMENIA.
TRONGATE (4) 1977 18,604 Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd, Hiroshima 1983 sold to Greece renamed MARIA SITINAS.
HULLGATE 1970 1,594 R. Dunston, Hessle Tanker, ex HULLGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1981 damaged by explosion at Milford Haven and scrapped.
EASTGATE (6) 1979 1,599 Kanrei Zosen K.K., Naruto Tanker, ex EASTGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1982 sold to Rowbotham not renamed, 1993 transferred to P&O Tankships, 1996 to James Fisher.
WESTGATE (2) 1979 1,599 Kanrei Zosen K.K., Naruto Tanker, ex WESTGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1982 sold to Rowbotham not renamed, 1993 transferred to P&O Tankships, 1996 to James Fisher.
HUMBERGATE 1968 997 R. Dunston, Hessle Tanker, ex HUMBERGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1982 sold to Rowbotham not renamed, 1990 sold to Greece renamed KORINTHIA.
NORTHGATE (2) 1981 1,599 Kanrei Zosen K.K., Naruto Tanker, ex NORTHGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1982 sold to Rowbotham not renamed, 1993 transferred to P&O Tankships, 1996 to James Fisher.
IRISHGATE 1981 1,599 Kanrei Zosen K.K., Naruto Tanker, ex IRISHGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1990 sold to Rowbotham not renamed, 1993 transferred to P&O Tankships, 1996 to James Fisher.

David Wilcockson
9th November 2007, 09:43
Maritiem
Many thanks for the write ups you have done here and on Williamson of Hong Kong, much appreciated, they make very good reading, cheers,
David

Thomson
9th November 2007, 15:49
Maritiem - Thanks for a very interesting concise summary of Turnbull Scott history. This answered a number of questions for me - much appreciated.
Thomson.

cheeky_chickete
3rd January 2008, 14:28
Hi,
I am the grandaughter of Captain Price who was Eastgates master at the time of the collision in Hong Kong 1973. Unfortunately, he passed away in 1995 when I was 6 yrs old. My aunty remembers hearing about the collision on the radio and also recalls seeing photos on the front of the Argus, a local newspaper from the area where they lived. I am very interested in finding out more about the incident, I have found one picture of the Eastgate sometime before the collision on the internet. If anyone has any other links to photos or newspaper archives they would be appreciated.
Thanks, Jo

Thomson
3rd January 2008, 16:18
Jo - Sorry to hear of your Grandad - Captain Price's death.
Am forwarding info on the Eastgate collision.

Millerman
12th January 2008, 17:40
Hi Joe,
Sorry to hear about your Grandad, I served with him in the Stonegate on its maiden trip, but left in 1963, You may try a chap called Mick Holland, he was with him in the Stonegate and may know a little more. Did your Grandad go back to Wales.By the way you may like to get hold of a copy of "A Shipping Venture" Turnbull Scott and Co 1872 to 1972. Interesting read.
Millerman

Ed.
12th January 2008, 20:20
Sorry to hear that Captain price has gone.
He was Master of The Stonegate when I joined as Second Engineer in Singapore in Sept. 1966. A larger than life character - a good seaman and a good tankerman.
He used to tell us that he was only at sea because his first job after school, at the railway station in his valley town, came to an end when he upset a paraffin lamp and burned down the wooden footbridge across the line.
I sailed with him several times on Stonegate and then Eastgate when I was getting in my steam time.
There were three masters who rotated the two tankers. Capt Price, Capt Richardson and Capt Ellerby. All three never to be forgotten!!
At the time of The Eastgate collision and fire I had moved on to job as Superintendent.
Ed.

ARGK342
14th January 2008, 20:00
Eastgate Collision 30th March 1973. (Hope this answers previous queries.)

0630 Eastgate anchored Hong Kong awaiting pilot.Local fog bank descended.
Departing cargo vessel Cirea direct hit Eastgate on starboardside No2 wing and centre tank.Undamaged Cirea withdrew.Eastgate spilling cargo ignited - sea ablaze.

Eastgate people all escaped to sea in vessels lifeboats and by jumping.
Rescued by a Chinese junk and police patrol boats and taken to nearest hospital.Very sadly three lives were lost.Vessel made safe by fire department and dockyard works at anchorage permitted towing to discharge berth.
Machinery restarted by a few ships engineers out of hospital. Cargo discharged and tankcleaning completed by the Captain and two mates also discharged from hospital.
In drydock vessel found twisted and declared a constructive total loss.

Eastgate and her compliment were totally faultless. All were outstanding and acts of extreme courage occured. Everyone a hero in the finest traditions of the British Merchant Service.

The collision took place while manouvering. The Engine-room log actually read "SBFIER" , slight bump felt in engine room. The main cause of the fire was the other ship involved pulling free from the collision. This caused a spark which resulted in fire and explosion.

The three souls [crew] who died, all drowned.

I sailed with a 2nd Engineer who suffered bad burns while he was a Junior Engineer during this accident.

wbtk
20th February 2008, 22:04
After leaving the T.S.Arethusa,I served my time as a Deck/Nav App from 1961,on the Eastgate,Sungate and Flowergate and remember some good times aboard those ships,if anyone out there remembers me,please drop me an e-mail

Cheers B.Kemp

Tynesider
7th March 2008, 20:53
They also provided officers for the ANNALOCK and RANGELOCK for Wheelock Marden. The MARILOCK and ANNALOCK were gearless, the SEALOCK and RANGELOCK were geared. When Wheelocks ceased trading I think all the ships were arrested. RANGELOCK and ANNALOCK were laid up in Southampton. At the same time SEALOCK brought a cargo of coal to Southamtpon.

MARILOCK was renamed SYCEE amd I think SEALOCK was renamed QUORN



I Sailed as 3/E on the "Marilock" (panamax bulk carrier) twice between Oct 82 and Feb 84, Turnbulls were managing her and another ship (Sealock I think) for Wheelock Marden - Hong Kong. Anyone know what happened to these ships?

Tynesider
7th March 2008, 21:11
Yes I remember Captains Ellerby and Price. Other Masters of the STONEGATE included Captains Thorne and Cooper, both from Yorkshire a tradtional recruiting area for Turnbull Scott

From memory I recall that Capt Ellerby died on board TRONGATE whilst the vessel was at anchor off Buenos Aires

yES Yes QUOTE=Ed.;177131]Sorry to hear that Captain price has gone.
He was Master of The Stonegate when I joined as Second Engineer in Singapore in Sept. 1966. A larger than life character - a good seaman and a good tankerman.
He used to tell us that he was only at sea because his first job after school, at the railway station in his valley town, came to an end when he upset a paraffin lamp and burned down the wooden footbridge across the line.
I sailed with him several times on Stonegate and then Eastgate when I was getting in my steam time.
There were three masters who rotated the two tankers. Capt Price, Capt Richardson and Capt Ellerby. All three never to be forgotten!!
At the time of The Eastgate collision and fire I had moved on to job as Superintendent.
Ed.[/QUOTE]

SCOTHEDE
18th March 2008, 22:47
Hi Jo.
Sorry to hear that your grandfather - Captain Price has passed away.
I sailed with him for two trips in the early 70s on the Eastgate, I was 4th engineer at the time.
In fact on new years eve in 1971 we were in Aukland and a phone had been installed on board and we were all making calls home, communications then were not as easy as today. I happened to be on the phone when Captain Price came into the room and he asked who I was talking to. It happened to be my mother, he asked if he could have a word, I handed him the phone and he wished her a happy new year and assured her that all was well. I think my mother was quite impressed by speaking to the captain. In fact news of that call even made our local paper.
Regards
Derek Scothern

Tony Morris
6th May 2008, 10:39
They also provided officers for the ANNALOCK and RANGELOCK for Wheelock Marden. The MARILOCK and ANNALOCK were gearless, the SEALOCK and RANGELOCK were geared. When Wheelocks ceased trading I think all the ships were arrested. RANGELOCK and ANNALOCK were laid up in Southampton. At the same time SEALOCK brought a cargo of coal to Southamtpon.

MARILOCK was renamed SYCEE amd I think SEALOCK was renamed QUORN
To Tynesider,

Many thanks for the info, sorry I am late thanking you but just got back from a 5 month trip.
With your info I have been able to find out that the Marilock was still around last year as the "Edco Star" detained in Suez as unseaworthy then sold 12/10/07 for $16M "as is where is" to unknown buyer.

Tony

Tynesider
7th May 2008, 20:05
To Tynesider,

Many thanks for the info, sorry I am late thanking you but just got back from a 5 month trip.
With your info I have been able to find out that the Marilock was still around last year as the "Edco Star" detained in Suez as unseaworthy then sold 12/10/07 for $16M "as is where is" to unknown buyer.

Tony
Thamks for the update on MARILOCK. Shw would be at least 25 years old and even in the eighties, ships were not built to last

Turnbulls had three geared small bulk carriers built in Appledore in 1976. I saw one of them in Southampton a few years ago and it was like meeting an old friend. They had Mirrlees engines and broke down all over the world

RO Vintage
9th May 2008, 13:01
Hi Sam.
Just Read Your Thread "Turnbull Scott" I was R/O On The M.V. Gela About
!972/73 Although It was Turnbull Scotts Ship management ,On The Run
from Hamburg To Mexico VW Charter. Rem Capt Maxi Simpson mate Brock
And 3/Eng Terry Gibson, No Longer With Us. Remember Good Trips On The
Gela. Does Anyone Remember Maxi Simpson? Would Like To Hear From Anyone
Who Sailed On The Gela

Thanks

Ro Vintage George Savage (Ex Marconi)

Tynesider
9th May 2008, 22:09
Max Simpson worked in the Turnbull Scott office in Farnborough whilst I was working there. I joined Turnbull's 1977 and left in 1986. Cant remember when Max finished

Thw GELA had already gone when I joined in 1977. Didnt she have two sisters, MONICA and TERE?

STORM
20th June 2008, 10:55
Hello Jo,
I am also very sorry to hear of the death of your grandfather Captain Price. I sailed with him twice, both times on the Trongate. He was an excellent Captain and a tremendous personality, being both great fun and commanding a great deal of respect.

Regards,

Andrew.

STORM
20th June 2008, 12:02
I have just come across this site while looking for references to some of the ships i sailed on. I joined Turnbull's in 1977 as a cadet and left in 1983 as 2nd mate.

As well as Captain Price I remember Captains Thorne and Cooper very well. They were both fine Captains who disliked each other in equal measure. Captain Thorn could be harsh and some of the stories were the stuff of legend. I liked him a lot and would be interested if anyone has any news of him. He knew the Stonegate like the back of his hand and woe betide cadets who did not pass muster on his quite frequent tests. Choice epithets would flow poetically and loudly. He had a vague notion once of setting up a restaurant with Terry Deighton. Terry told me the gist of it was that he (Terry) would do the work while Ken 'mingled' with the guests. Now there's an image. Terry was a super bloke. We were once travelling in a bus somewhere. There was a fair crowd of us including someone's wife and a cadet using a lot of particulary fould language. Someone asked Terry to stop the cadet behaving in such a manner which Terry duly did with clip round the ear and a "****ing pack it in".

I am in touch with Captain Coopers son Peter who did his cadetship a little before me. Through him I have bits of news of Paul Myers, now a Master with Stolt Line, and Steve Donkersley, now a Chief Officer with RFA. Pete and I have occasionally made plans to meet up but have never quite made it.

I am in close contact with Mike Bailey who like me works in IT. We meet up a couple of times a year and reminisce with vigour. I am sure there will be a few people who remember Paddy Shrimpton. He is domiciled American (I think one of his parents was American but I'm not certain), is still mad keen on Rugby and is head of safety with Chevron tankers.

I also remember Captain Troczska a big bear of a man whose wish was to have been in the Polish paratroop regiment in the war. He railed bitterly aganst those authorities who put him in the Merchant Navy. He did not forgive the Germans for what they did to Poland and discussing things German were best avoided. He was another excellent Captain. His wife sailed part of the trip with him and she was as small as he was huge, or maybe it was just relitive and time is confusing my memory. They clearly adored each other. The other thing I particularly remember about him was his fondness for John Steinbeck novels.

On the subject of Poland didn't Captain Price sail in the war on Polish ships. He certainly liked the Poles a lot and was still angered by the way the Allies had treated them.

I sailed quite a lot with Captain Odd who was made Master at a very young age. He was great. Helpful, demanding in a balanced way and good fun.

On the engineering side I remember Chief Engineer Frank Graham particulaly well. We used to play cribbage most evenings. I used to win (that's my story anyway) and every night he would tell me how rubbish I was. Fantastic. He was another great character and a very nice man, though it did take me the best part of my first trip with him to get used to him.

I sailed on the Skeldergate several times both as Skeldergate and Cabo Azul. In fact the Skeldergate was my last trip which I rounded off with a certain symmetry when I threw the heaving line lock stock and barrel into the water. A rather dry witted dock worker asked me deadpan if I was supposed to do that. I had done exactly the same thing about seven years earlier on my first trip, the Saltersgate. I'd like to think that I did a few things correctly in the years betwen.

Apart from the Skeldergate and Saltersgate I sailed on the Southgate, the Stonegate, the Trongate and Marilock.

If anyone has any news of those I mentioned above or indeed anyone else who was in Turnbull's around that time I would be really interested. It might be through the rose tinted glasses of time lapsed but I had a great few years in Turnbull's and met some splendid people and many true characters.

Andrew.

Pilot mac
20th June 2008, 14:04
anybody know the whereabouts of Nick White who was with Turnbulls mid 70's to mid 80's as second mate and mate. I remember him sailing on the chemical tankers and Trongate.

regards
Dave

Pat Kennedy
20th June 2008, 16:42
There is a good photo of the Stainless Patriot here
http://www.shawsavillships.co.uk/patriot.htm
I worked on board her several times,repairing compressed air breathing apparatus, both in Birkenhead and in Rotterdam, got to know the crew pretty well, and often went for a few jars with them.
She seemed to be a happy ship at that time, 1980.
Regards,
Pat

Ed.
22nd June 2008, 19:00
Max Simpson worked in the Turnbull Scott office in Farnborough whilst I was working there. I joined Turnbull's 1977 and left in 1986. Cant remember when Max finished

Thw GELA had already gone when I joined in 1977. Didnt she have two sisters, MONICA and TERE?

The Gela was originaly "Arlington Court" renamed "Southgate" when purchased by TS and then "Gela" when chartered to TMM.
Monica and Tere were smaller, each about 3,000 tons dwt. Purpose built with Union Purchase derricks for discharging cargo at anchor in the swell conditions of the Mexican Pacific ports.
Ed.

Tony Morris
24th June 2008, 10:23
To "Storm"

Frank Graham ended up with Transocean Shipmanagement / J T Essberger from 1992 until 2004ish when he retired, he was perminant C/E on the cement carrier "Helvetia" - I used to relieve him from time to time, was still telling every one that they were rubbish. Do not think he will appear on this site as he hated computers.

From my time on the "Marilock" still remember one great capt., John Werner who one christmas bought all the officers a present, I got a magnetic bottle / can opener, do you think he was trying to tell me something??? Any idea where he is now?

Tony

Jim Prophet
28th June 2008, 21:43
Can any one help please. I joined the GREEN PARK,as 4th engineer, at anchor in Lagos with a gargo of railway sleepers.Whilst alongside in Lagos we had to collect stores from a T.S. just ahead of us,the name of which fails me.I was the unlucky soul in the life boat doing the ferrying work. After that we sailed light ship to Port Royal (in South Carolina) to load chalk? for Ancona in Italy. Try as I might I cannot find any reference anywhere for the Green Park. Any information would be gladly recieved,especially a photograph
Regards Jim

Ed.
29th June 2008, 20:19
Can any one help please. I joined the GREEN PARK,as 4th engineer, at anchor in Lagos with a gargo of railway sleepers.Whilst alongside in Lagos we had to collect stores from a T.S. just ahead of us,the name of which fails me.I was the unlucky soul in the life boat doing the ferrying work. After that we sailed light ship to Port Royal (in South Carolina) to load chalk? for Ancona in Italy. Try as I might I cannot find any reference anywhere for the Green Park. Any information would be gladly recieved,especially a photograph
Regards Jim


The Southgate, Sandgate and Green Park, identical sisters, were built by Appledore Shipbuilders and delivered in 1976. The Green Park was managed by TS for another owner (Owner of Hyde park, Holland Park and Regents Park)
He had wanted to name this ship the "Syon Park". In light of the political situation at the time in the middle east this would have caused enormous problems. Turnbulls were fortunately able to disuade him.
Green Park was later purchased by Turnbulls and renamed Saltersgate. I am not sure exactly when this was, but I attended her as Saltersgate on 1st Nov. 77 at Porto Marghera and have the standard photo of her passing the Venice waterfront, with that name on the bow.
She was sold in Oct 1982 to Coldport of Kingston, Jamaica (Ishmael Robertson) Handed over at Vlissingen. (can't remember the new name)
New owners had a government contract to run grain from Houston to jamaica.
However they were unable to keep the Mirlees Engine running and Chief Engineer Roger Bedson and Second Engineer Alan Jonston joined the vessel, at first on loan, but later as permanent Coldport employees.
Ed.

Tynesider
29th June 2008, 22:35
I think SALTERSGATE was renamed HERMENIA or something very similar when she was sold to Coldport. From memory all three sisters loadied railway sleepers from Workington to Apapa Lagos and were anchored off for many months. Due to piracy in the area culninating in the death of one of the officers on the LINDINGER IVORY (sp?), many ships were allowed to sail at night and then return to the anchorage in the morning

These ships regularily loaded kaolin clay in the States for Italian ports such as Monfalcone and Ancona. The Mirrlees engines were very unreliable and caused break down in many places included Acapulco and Lisbon. I understand that Appledore Shipbuilders normally fitted Pielstick engines but Mirrlees ones were chosen instead


The Southgate, Sandgate and Green Park, identical sisters, were built by Appledore Shipbuilders and delivered in 1976. The Green Park was managed by TS for another owner (Owner of Hyde park, Holland Park and Regents Park)
He had wanted to name this ship the "Syon Park". In light of the political situation at the time in the middle east this would have caused enormous problems. Turnbulls were fortunately able to disuade him.
Green Park was later purchased by Turnbulls and renamed Saltersgate. I am not sure exactly when this was, but I attended her as Saltersgate on 1st Nov. 77 at Porto Marghera and have the standard photo of her passing the Venice waterfront, with that name on the bow.
She was sold in Oct 1982 to Coldport of Kingston, Jamaica (Ishmael Robertson) Handed over at Vlissingen. (can't remember the new name)
New owners had a government contract to run grain from Houston to jamaica.
However they were unable to keep the Mirlees Engine running and Chief Engineer Roger Bedson and Second Engineer Alan Jonston joined the vessel, at first on loan, but later as permanent Coldport employees.
Ed.

Raymond Sequeira
20th October 2008, 10:04
I sailed as 3/E with C/E Frank Graham on the chemical tanker STAINLESS SPRAY way back in 1987. As you have mentioned, it took a while to know him and what a wonderful person he turned out to be. Understand that he has now retired, but could you please give me his contact details if possible. Also sailed with C/E Ian Murcott, Capt. James Hirst, Capt. Ian Odd, 2/E Pringle & 2/E Ian Goodall. Any news on them.

Earlier in 1986 , I sailed as 4/E on the SYCEE ( ex MARILOCK) with a wonderful crowd which included Capt. Falconer, C/E Phil Chandler, 2/E Mike Beech, 3/E Ian Webster, C/O Lawrence Aye Maung.

After my stint on the STAINLESS SPRAY , I joined as 2/E on SAINT CLOUD. By then most of the old crowd had left TURNBULL. Eddie Green was the Technical Supereintendent for all the above vessels.

Raymond

Pat Hughes
20th October 2008, 11:11
Lawrence Aye Maung is now Examiner of Master's and Mates based in Crosby, Liverpool. A real gentleman.

BillH
20th October 2008, 12:34
Can any one help please. I joined the GREEN PARK,as 4th engineer, at anchor in Lagos with a gargo of railway sleepers.Whilst alongside in Lagos we had to collect stores from a T.S. just ahead of us,the name of which fails me.I was the unlucky soul in the life boat doing the ferrying work. After that we sailed light ship to Port Royal (in South Carolina) to load chalk? for Ancona in Italy. Try as I might I cannot find any reference anywhere for the Green Park. Any information would be gladly recieved,especially a photograph
Regards Jim
GREEN PARK was one of a trio built at Appledore to a design formulated for Jebsens Norway and originally ordered by them. The contracts were sold to TS / Park Steamship and design amended to suit the new owner requirements. GREEN PARK was managed by TS and was subsequently purchased and renamed into line with her 2 sisters. All ended up with S names. SANDGATE, SALTERSGATE and another which escapes me at present, being away from my records. Possibly SOUTHGATE. Which was ex GREEN PARK I cannot say at present.

Hope this helps

Alan Malpas
20th October 2008, 13:15
All, can anyone remember the "ESKDALEGATE" in I think July 1977,when she was running stone from bigger ships at anchor to the then little port of of Owendo in Gabon.

It was during this period that I was serving as 3/0 in "SPANISH WASA"
carring stone from Bar in Yugoslavia to Owendo.The Eskdalegate was in a sorry state with little or no food and fast running out of diesel.

They were so glad to see a british ship arrive,that we had to make what I think was an inter company transfer of goods to Turnball Scott,Shortly after,
Eskdalegate did a runner for Freetown in Sierra Leone.Not sure if the charter had finished or not at the time.

BillH
20th October 2008, 16:39
The Southgate, Sandgate and Green Park, identical sisters, were built by Appledore Shipbuilders and delivered in 1976. The Green Park was managed by TS for another owner (Owner of Hyde park, Holland Park and Regents Park)
He had wanted to name this ship the "Syon Park". In light of the political situation at the time in the middle east this would have caused enormous problems. Turnbulls were fortunately able to disuade him.
Green Park was later purchased by Turnbulls and renamed Saltersgate. I am not sure exactly when this was, but I attended her as Saltersgate on 1st Nov. 77 at Porto Marghera and have the standard photo of her passing the Venice waterfront, with that name on the bow.
She was sold in Oct 1982 to Coldport of Kingston, Jamaica (Ishmael Robertson) Handed over at Vlissingen. (can't remember the new name)
New owners had a government contract to run grain from Houston to jamaica.
However they were unable to keep the Mirlees Engine running and Chief Engineer Roger Bedson and Second Engineer Alan Jonston joined the vessel, at first on loan, but later as permanent Coldport employees.
Ed.
Not sure if this is what you meant but it was the 1974 Dutch built HYDE PARK that had been launched as SYON PARK but renamed when fitting out.

BillH
20th October 2008, 16:42
All, can anyone remember the "ESKDALEGATE" in I think July 1977,when she was running stone from bigger ships at anchor to the then little port of of Owendo in Gabon.

It was during this period that I was serving as 3/0 in "SPANISH WASA"
carring stone from Bar in Yugoslavia to Owendo.The Eskdalegate was in a sorry state with little or no food and fast running out of diesel.

They were so glad to see a british ship arrive,that we had to make what I think was an inter company transfer of goods to Turnball Scott,Shortly after,
Eskdalegate did a runner for Freetown in Sierra Leone.Not sure if the charter had finished or not at the time.
ESKDALEGATE was sold in 1977 to Cyprus buyers and renamed ELISABETH.


Not sure if still available but the World Ship Society produced a 52 page A5 size booklet on the company by H. S. Appleyard ISBN 0 905617 07 X in 1978 which provided a potted history and a detailed illustrated fleet list including owned and managed vessels together with sub sections for Park Steamship, Golden Cross Line, Whitehall Shipping Co, Wm Brandts Leasing, Coronet Shipping Ltd and Truelaurels Ltd. all updated to 1978.

Ed.
26th October 2008, 10:30
Eskdalegate was purchased from Hull Gates Shipping of Grimsby. The person who inspected the ship on behalf of Turnbulls was hoodwinked by much smarter management at Hull Gates and shortly after we took over it was found that the Forward Peak ballast tank was in absolutely rotten condition. Much of the structure was perforated by corrosion and some stringers were so weak they were unsafe to walk on. We spun some cock and bull story about corrosive sludge picked up in the ballast water in some port, and the whole lot was repaired by insurance.
The Munck Loader was a nightmare. This monstrous electric powered gantry weighed over sixty tons and even when not in use had to be kept working so that it could be moved along the deck - otherwise it blocked access to the aft hatch. The hook was mounted on a huge frame, which occasionaly would shoot skywards in a completely uncontrolled manner. Dozens of rusty boxes of thyristor controls and tangled cables. On one occasion I remember the outboard extended travel arm blocking the harbour in Antwerp, no way could we get the dammned thing to retract.
In March 1976 she was laid up near King Harry Ferry in the River Fal.
In November that year I remember taking a turbocharger rotor to St Nazaire in the back of the car.
She must have been sold soon after this. I think it was to Turks.

seanmac
20th November 2008, 15:41
I am intrested in any information on the final voyage of the "Eastgate",and the tragic collision on friday 30/3/73.

BillH
20th November 2008, 16:38
I am intrested in any information on the final voyage of the "Eastgate",and the tragic collision on friday 30/3/73.
30.3.1973: Heavily damaged amidships by fire which followed a collision with the French CIRCEA 9785/63 off Hong Kong. Towed into HK next day and subsequently sold to Great fareastern Matitime SA, Panama and renamed GREAT FAREASTERN. 30.6.1973: Arrive at Kaohsiung for demolition by Great China Steel Enterprise Co.Ltd.

Nick1958
23rd November 2008, 00:09
It is strange reading the threads relating to Turnbull Scott as my dad was one of the Captains mentioned. Many of the names ring bells in my memory from when I was young, such as Captains Price and Richardson, as well as some of those based at the head office.

My dad died 1st October 1978 (a liver complaint not unknown amongst many who go to sea!), thirty years ago on board ship (someone has already mentioned it was the Trongate) at Buenos Aires. My mum Shiela Ellerby travelled on many voyages with him and passed away in 2000 - she held very happy memories of some of the voyages she went on, and the people she met. I sailed on one voyage in about 1975 from Scotland to France and then North Africa, before coming back to the UK.

It has been a good reminder of the dynamics that are created in any relatively small community of people when I read the threads.

I remember meeting the wife and daughters of a Chief Engineer who lived in the Wirral and I wonder if anyone recalls his name. Also there were officers on the voyage I went on, one of whom had a wife who befriended me (she was not english as I recall) - but again I cannot remember their names. Two cadets were also on the voyage and I think we had a very late night in Bordeaux which resulted in missing the tide - which did not go down well as anyone who knew my dad can imagine.

If anyone remembers Captain Ted Ellerby, I would appreciate any memories - and recognise they may may be mixed...but that is what makes a character and a fuller picture of the person.

Nick

seanmac
23rd November 2008, 11:44
Thanks bill h,for the information it all helps to complete the picture.

Buster2003
28th December 2008, 11:18
I joined Turnbull Scott’s in 1970 more by chance than by wish, I was on my way towards the Federation offices in Lehman St London. for a medical after being accepted to join a new build Union Steam of New Zealand as 3/2 Mate for two years which would include NZ Residency, I never made Kiwi till years later as a tourist when I did eventually meet the Mate and his wife who took the new build South.
Instead I bumped into two friends on their way from Sir John Cass to the Students Union bar (long gone), they were Ian Odd and Alan Faulkner, I told them where I was going, to which they said “You don’t want to go to NZ you want to go to Mexico” to which I replied “What the hell do I want to go there for”, After several pints and a chat with Peter Storm on the phone, followed by a run to Farnborough to meet him and Fred Harris I was signed up to join the MV Tere which ran with the MV Monica on the West Coast South and Central American service for Transporte Maritimo de Mexico (TMM). After a short spell of relieving on the old Baxtergate in Liverpool for Dry-docking followed by a run job from Bari with steel on the Waynegate I flew out to Acapulco with Peter Storm to commence 11 months of single mans happiness on the South American coast. (Has anybody any pictures of the 2 ships)
I could ramble on for pages with stories of my times on the Tere, Stainless Warrior, Skeldergate, Redgate, Stonegate and a few others. I left in 1979 due to tragic personal reasons, originally intending to return but unfortunately the writing was on the wall for many British shipping companies including Turnbulls. I keep in touch with Ian Odd who is Master of a New Build tanker owned by a Chinese company.

Regards
Clive (The big one)

BillH
28th December 2008, 12:09
I joined Turnbull Scott’s in 1970 more by chance than by wish, I was on my way towards the Federation offices in Lehman St London. for a medical after being accepted to join a new build Union Steam of New Zealand as 3/2 Mate for two years which would include NZ Residency, I never made Kiwi till years later as a tourist when I did eventually meet the Mate and his wife who took the new build South.
Instead I bumped into two friends on their way from Sir John Cass to the Students Union bar (long gone), they were Ian Odd and Alan Faulkner, I told them where I was going, to which they said “You don’t want to go to NZ you want to go to Mexico” to which I replied “What the hell do I want to go there for”, After several pints and a chat with Peter Storm on the phone, followed by a run to Farnborough to meet him and Fred Harris I was signed up to join the MV Tere which ran with the MV Monica on the West Coast South and Central American service for Transporte Maritimo de Mexico (TMM). After a short spell of relieving on the old Baxtergate in Liverpool for Dry-docking followed by a run job from Bari with steel on the Waynegate I flew out to Acapulco with Peter Storm to commence 11 months of single mans happiness on the South American coast. (Has anybody any pictures of the 2 ships)
I could ramble on for pages with stories of my times on the Tere, Stainless Warrior, Skeldergate, Redgate, Stonegate and a few others. I left in 1979 due to tragic personal reasons, originally intending to return but unfortunately the writing was on the wall for many British shipping companies including Turnbulls. I keep in touch with Ian Odd who is Master of a New Build tanker owned by a Chinese company.

Regards
Clive (The big one)
If you can get your hands on the book I mentioned earlier in the thread there are photos of both Monica (Page 44) and Tere (page 40)

seanmac
28th December 2008, 18:41
There is a book called flight into danger, the story of the tss eastgate,by stephen (grey)farley.out of print now isbn o 75411 501 1.Throws A new light on the official version.

ReeferEng
20th February 2009, 20:56
Worked for Turnbulls between 83 and 86, sailing on Sealock, Hydrolock, Marilock and St. Aubin.
Stood by Sealock in Copenhagen during part of her build. She failed on sea trials, and the engineers spent time in the B&W school whilst they tried to get things to work in the yard.
Last ship was St Aubin, which was a real work up. From memory, she was built (!) in China, and if it could break, it did.

Tynesider
25th February 2009, 20:08
ST AUBIN and ST CLOUD were built in Guangzhou in China. Both were in the Jebsens pool. From memory, I think that ST AUBIN was involved in a collision and if she had not been in ballast,she would have sunk

norman74
7th March 2009, 14:21
[B[/B]Hi Thats A Blast From The Past Who Remembers This Old Company Any Ships Names And Photos Sam2182sw

Hi Sam2182sw, TS. Toil & Strife It was not bad really. I was on the FLOWERGATE for two trips UK/NZ 07.57 to 08.58. Then again two trips in 12.59/07.60 UK/West Africa, first of the two not so good a trip second one OK. Cheers Norman Calver.

Nick Balls
7th March 2009, 14:35
I Sailed as 3/E on the "Marilock" (panamax bulk carrier) twice between Oct 82 and Feb 84, Turnbulls were managing her and another ship (Sealock I think) for Wheelock Marden - Hong Kong. Anyone know what happened to these ships?

I sailed on a Panamax bulkcarrier called Shackleford in 1976 I understood at the time that she had been sold off the blocks from Turnbull,s

denbo
17th March 2009, 15:48
Hi, i've just joined this site an its been a fantastic reach back to the past allready.
I joined TS in 1979 as a cadet and sailed with Capt Price and Capt KH Thorne on the old "Stonecrusher's" last voyage to dry dock in Singgers.
I am sorry to hear of the passing of the formidable Capt. Price as he was a highly respected Capt and all around seaman.
I was last trip and senior cadet at the time and being around both men certainly went a long way to making me the person i am today.
I could wax lyrical about the exploits of "KHT" for months on end, and when i've had a few i tend to do so to the bemusement of those who are listening, people like those two don't exist any more i don't think.
As to Paddy Shrimpton, i sailed with him and i was in the same year as his twin Phil. I now live in Hull and Phil is a Detective in the local police force here. Our paths have crossed on several occasions but we've never sat down and reminissed.
Nice to hear Pete Cooper is still about i sailed with him and his Dad Capt Cooper on the Trongate, last i saw of his Dad was at Robins Hood Bay sat on the upturned boat the worst for wear!!! A state i never saw him in at sea by the way.
I'm looking forward to visiting this site regulary and you never know i meet up with a few old mates, i doubt Mr Cheng or litttle Mr Su from the Stonegate crew will be on but the memory of Little Mr Su stood on an orange crate to steer the ship is an abiding memory.

denbo
17th March 2009, 15:53
Was Nick a big man with a busy beard, a fondness for Rum and a great collection of the Goon Show on cassette, if it is i sailed with him on the Highgate when he fell overboard during lifeboat drill on his birthday !!

Steve
17th March 2009, 16:08
Welcome to SN Denbo.

Pilot mac
17th March 2009, 18:52
Does anyone know the whereabouts of Nick White ex Turnbulls, 2nd Mate and Mate, 70/80's ?

regards
Dave

bern66
14th April 2009, 22:28
I sailed on the EASTGATE from July to November 1959. Afraid that Ports of call have escaped me, but joined in Ellesmere Port and signed off in Sunderland. Can anyone provide anything further on that trip. Regards Bernie C

JKB
28th April 2009, 23:16
I think SALTERSGATE was renamed HERMENIA or something very similar when she was sold to Coldport. From memory all three sisters loadied railway sleepers from Workington to Apapa Lagos and were anchored off for many months. Due to piracy in the area culninating in the death of one of the officers on the LINDINGER IVORY (sp?), many ships were allowed to sail at night and then return to the anchorage in the morning

These ships regularily loaded kaolin clay in the States for Italian ports such as Monfalcone and Ancona. The Mirrlees engines were very unreliable and caused break down in many places included Acapulco and Lisbon. I understand that Appledore Shipbuilders normally fitted Pielstick engines but Mirrlees ones were chosen instead

I worked in the Marine Service Department at Mirrlees Blackstone from the late 1970s to 2004 and the three vessels in question were never far from our minds. The engines were KDMR8 Major Mk. IIs and they suffered from the usual K Major maladies, notably the automotive-type con. rods and the pneumatic control gear. In addition, though, the Turnbull Scott engines were of the direct reversing type which made them unusual among K Major Mk. IIs and didn't do a lot for their reliability.

Reading previous posts in this thread I was reminded of a few episodes from the careers of the "Southgate", "Sandgate" and "Saltersgate" after they were sold on. Unfortunately I can't remember which vessel was involved in each case, perhaps someone can put me straight.

One of them was sold to James Fishers, renamed the "Atlantic Fisher" and converted by United Engineering at Manchester dry dock to dump nuclear waste through a hatch in the bottom of the hold. They spent *fortunes* on the vessel including an awful lot of engine work including new three-piece con. rods and all sorts of other repairs and modifications. Before the conversion was finished she was "blacked" by the unions at the yard and lay alongside for over a year if I remember rightly. I don't think she ever carried any waste but was sold on straight from the yard.

One became the "Agios Spiridon 1" and broke down en route to (I think) Somalia with relief supplies which of course had gone off by the time repairs were complete.

I've an idea Arklow Shipping ended up with one of them, possibly renamed the "Arklow Beach" but I'm stretching my memory to breaking point now.

BillH
29th April 2009, 07:12
Sandgate became Atlantic Fisher then Arklow Beach

guinnessmick
29th April 2009, 18:27
what about the parkgate i was on her in 1960 when she broke down in the indian ocean and the journalist towed us to mombasa

ccurtis1
4th May 2009, 22:11
Atlantic Fisher, ex Sandgate, had her conversion to a nuclear waste dump ship carried out at The Middle Docks in South Shields. She had a "Moon Pool"
fitted, which was literally a big hole right through the ship. She did one test dump in the Atlantic using cement drums, all monitered by "Nirex" The Old Man was Captain Howard Vane, ex Turnbull Scotts and the Mate, a Welshman who I think had also held command in TS. I just can not recall his name. She did lay up in Barrow, locked in by the unions, for some considerable time

Prof
12th May 2009, 22:09
After leaving the T.S.Arethusa,I served my time as a Deck/Nav App from 1961,on the Eastgate,Sungate and Flowergate and remember some good times aboard those ships,if anyone out there remembers me,please drop me an e-mail

Cheers B.Kemp

Bill, Couldn't resist replying. Hope all is well with you and doubtless 'yours'. Hope Gloria is similar. It was a sad day you left Sungate. I too remember the odd good time, remember 'Fanta', wonder what happened to him?
Frank 'Gabriel' Jervis

wbtk
16th May 2009, 05:14
Frank...Great to hear you are still around mate...PM me please so we can catch up....Cheers B

Prof
17th May 2009, 18:17
The chief engineer on board at the time of the collision was Rodger Bateson.

Doug: Bateson was he the company man, worked up from eng/apprentice, having spent several trips on Eastgate, who we knew as 'John the One'. Rumour had it that he was chief on board and instrumental in helping to save crew from the water, anyone know what happened to him?

Frank

Prof
17th May 2009, 18:30
Jo - Sorry to hear of your Grandad - Captain Price's death.
Am forwarding info on the Eastgate collision.

Also sorry to hear of the Great Captain's passing, I sailed as second mate with him on the Eastgate in 1969, a real gentleman and a calm, humorous, and very capable man. A pleasure to have known and one of the best Captains I sailed with.

Frank

Prof
17th May 2009, 18:39
The London branch of the three Turnbull tramp fleets was to have the greatest longevity, existing as shipowners for 109 years. Thomas Turnbull of Whitby had recognized the future importance of the Baltic Exchange in finding employment for his Whitby tramp fleet, and he had despatched his 21 year old third son Reginald March Turnbull and his cousin of the same age, Robert Turnbull Scott, to London in early 1869 to familiarise themselves with the London market before establishing a branch office. They worked as clerks in a shipbrokers office for three years before entering business in January,1872 as Turnbull, Scott & Co. at 85, Qracechurch Street as ship and insurance brokers with the main aim of obtaining charters for the Whitby tramp fleet.

The partners were financed by a loan from Thomas Turnbull, and in March, 1872 both partners were elected members of the Baltic Exchange, which originated as two coffee houses in the 17th Century where shipmasters and merchants could discuss their business. The first charter party had been concluded on 3rd February, 1872 for the barque WATERSPRITE operated by Turnbull of Whitby to take a cargo of coal from the Tyne to Alexandria. Their first year of trading as charterers of ships on the Eternal Triangle route of coal out to the Mediterranean, ballast to the Black Sea, and grain homewards made a modest profit of £608, which was shared between them.

The commissions from the charters that the three Turnbull offices at Whitby, Cardiff and London charged each other were put on a firm comercial basis by Thomas Turnbull from New Year's Day, 1889. Although market conditions were poor in 1880, the decision was taken by Thomas Turnbull that the London and Cardiff branch houses, the latter trading as Turnbull Brothers from 1877, should enter shipowning and two iron sister tramps were reserved at the Whitby yard for launch in March/April,1882. HIGHGATE of 1950 dwt was launched first on 4th March, 1882 named after the London suburb in which both partners were living and also the old name for the Eastern end of Church Street in Whitby. The two partners held equally 46 of her 64 shares with the Turnbull family and friends in Whitby holding most of the remainder. HIGHGATE was towed from Whitby to Hartlepool for installation of her compound steam engine costing £5,525 out of her contract price of £20,250. After returning to Whitby for fitting out, trials were held off Hartlepool and she ballasted to Swansea to load a maiden cargo of patent fuel for Alexandria, followed by ballasting to Taganrog in the Black Sea to load wheat for Rotterdam.
The iron tramp SOUTHGATE (1) was launched at Whitby on 23rd April,1883 with slightly increased dimensions than HIGHGATE and her major shareholders were Whitby and Robin Hood's Bay trades people who had a business relationship with the Whitby shipyard.

HIGHGATE and SOUTHGATE (1) continued on Black Sea trading together with the first steel tramp fitted with triple expansion engines, which was launched at Whitby on 26th May,1888 as NORTHGATE by Frances, wife of Reginald Turnbull, and was taken on her maiden voyage to the Black Sea. However she gave only nine years service, going ashore on a sandbank at Sharpness on 22nd December, 1897 and subsequently breaking her back.
Six more steel tramps were built at Whitby for Turnbull, Scott & Co. with the last being named SOUTHGATE (2) of 5900 dwt on 4th November,1899 by one of the daughters of Robert Turnbull Scott. The first SOUTHGATE had been sold four months earlier to Swedish owners, and the pioneer HIGHGATE had sunk off Lundy Island on 19th February,1890 after a collision with a Canadian sailing ship while on passage from Mostyn to Cardiff. The London tramp fleet was thus operating six tramps at the turn of the century.

Robert Turnbull Scott died on 6th August,1903 aged 55 years and as he had no son to succeed him, his share in Turnbull, Scott & Co. was purchased from him under the deeds of partnership by Reginald Turnbull and his son, March. Reginald died on 12th July,1912 aged 64 years and his son received many letters of condolence from clients and fellow members of the Baltic Exchange. March Turnbull became head of the company, and his brothers Noel and Thomas were admitted as partners in 1913.
Turnbull,Scott & Co. continued to act as London chartering agents for the Turnbull fleet at Whitby until the end of the first World War, and also for other Whitby owners notably Capt. Thomas Smailes, whose early seagoing career had been with Turnbull. His ELLERDALE and DARNHOLME, FAIRHAVEN, ESKDALE, BAGDALE and others were regularly fixed until the Smailes family ceased as shipowners at the end of World War 1.
The London office followed the experiment of the Whitby office into limited liability companies in 1906, when their PARKGATE of 1906 completed by R. Craggs & Son on the Tees was registered in 1908 under the Parkgate S.S. Co. Ltd. NETHERGATE (1) of 1890 grounded on the English Bank in the Plate on 11th July,1909, and was refloated in 1910 and declared a constructive total loss and sold locally there for further service after repairs.

The Turnbull Scott Shipping Co. Ltd was formed in May, 1911 with a capital of £50,000 and took over SOUTHGATE (2) of 1899, TRONGATE of 1897, WESTGATE of 1893 and EASTGATE of 1889. EASTGATE of 1889 was sold in 1913 to Swedish owners leaving four tramps in the fleet at the outbreak of the first World War: WESTGATE of 1893, TRONGATE of 1897, SOUTHGATE (2) of 1899 and PARKGATE of 1906, two being lost to enemy action:
04.04.1917 PARKGATE Captured amd sunk by U35 80 miles NE of Cap de Fer.
22.09.1917 TRONGATE Torpedoed and sunk by UC71 5 miles N of Flamborough Head on voyage Tyne to France with coal.

This left WESTGATE of 1893, SOUTHGATE (2) of 1899, the new EASTGATE (2) of 1915, completed by William Gray & Co. Ltd at West Hartlepool and HELREDALE of 1906, transferred from the Whitby fleet in 1918.
WESTGATE was reported missing on 8th January,1919 off the Wolf Rock whilst on a voyage from Barry to Malta with coal, cause unknown.

The Redgate S.S. Co. Ltd was formed in 1919 and purchased the steamer GORDONIA of 6720 dwt, built by John Readhead & Sons Ltd in 1908 and capable of a top speed of 7.5 knots on 20 tons of coal/day, from the Gordon S.S. Co. Ltd of London and renamed her REDGATE.

A system of competitive tender for ex German prizes taken over by the British Government as war reparations resulted in five such vessels joining the Redgate and Turnbull Scott Shipping companies for a total of £227,000 between 1920 and 1923. They were renamed SANDGATE, WHITEGATE, FLOWERGATE, NETHERGATE and BAXTERGATE, and all had previously belonged to the Hansa company of Bremen and were thus cargoliners with excellent accomodation for the crew. However when loading coal it was found with their tween decks and relatively small hatches, trimming costs were higher, and although suitable for the Plate trade they were always forced to top up with grain downriver from the Martin Garcia Bar due to their deep draft. A good loaded speed of 11 knots incurred a coal consumption of around 34 tons of coal/day, a figure which could not be tolerated when freight rates became much worse during the Depression.

SOUTHGATE(2) of 1899 was sold to Italian breakers for £8,000 in October,1924. The ex Cardiff tramp CHALISTER was purchased in 1924 and renamed HAGGERSGATE, and ARABISTAN of F.C. Srick & Co. Ltd was purchased on the stocks at the Readhead shipyard at South Shields and completed as SOUTHGATE (3) in November, 1926.

The death of Charles Radcliffe of Cardiff in July, 1926 whose elder brother Henry had founded the famous Cardiff tramp company of Evan Thomas Radcliffe, resulted in the sale of his fleet, of which three were purchased by Court Line Ltd and two by Turnbull, Scott & Co. Ltd. The latter pair were OVERSTONE and SNOWDON, renamed SALTERSGATE (1) and TRONGATE (2). Both tramps met with unfortunate accidents on their maiden voyages for the company: TRONGATE (2) left Cardiff on 9th April,1927 bound for Buenos Aires with coal but shortly after sailing was in collision with the tramp EUTERPE and had to put into Barry to discharge before moving back to Cardiff for repairs.

SALTERSGATE (1) loaded coal at Cardiff for Ibicuy on a tributary of the Parana, but went aground on a mud bank just above the Martin Garcia Bar when taking action to avoid collision on 14th May,1927. On falling tides she remained there for a week until barges were brought from Buenos Aires to lighten her, and on arrival at Ibicuy the pilot was arrested. SALTERSGATE loaded grain there for Hamburg where she arrived on 2nd August,1927.

The 9120 dwt STONEGATE was completed by William Doxford & Sons Ltd in January,1928, and her maiden voyage was down to Rio with coal and on to the Plate to load grain for the Continent.
The former Whitby tramp HELREDALE was sold to Greek owners in 1929, and three sister tramps of 7950 dwt ordered from the Burntisland yard just before the Depression set in in late 1929 and were completed in 1930/31 as SKELDERGATE, ESKDALEGATE and WAYNEGATE. These were Economy type tramps with an average speed of around 9 knots on a consumption of 19 tons of coal/day. However the accomodation as regards crew comfort left much to be desired, and they were also noted for excessive stern-slide in heavy weather. With the completion of this trio the two Turnbull, Scott companies owned a medium-sized fleet of 15 tramps. However five were laid-up for long periods: FLOWERGATE, WHITEGATE, NETHERGATE and SANDGATE on the Tyne for six years, seven years, three years and five years respectively, and BAXTERGATE at Palmouth for over three years.
Prior to her lay-up on the Tyne NETHERGATE had loaded a cargo of asphalt at Tampico for the Anglo-Mexican Petroleum Co. Ltd for South African ports, after which she took a cargo of coal from Lourenco Marques to Singapore. On completion of discharge at Singapore she was taken on time charter by Lambert Brothers for a homeward voyage, redelivery Northern Europe. She was then taken on time-charter at Cardiff at the end of 1928 to Strick Line for a Persian Gulf Round voyage. Among the ports she called at were Marseilles, Port Said, Port Sudan, and the Persian Gulf ports of Bandar Abbas, Bahrein, Abadan, Basra etc returning via Suez to Avonmouth and Barry, where she redelivered on 13th June,1929. She was again time-chartered by Strick Line for a repeat voyage arriving back at London on 17th October, 1929 for discharge before laying-up on the Tyne.

The remainder of the fleet were kept going with only short waits at the end of each voyage before the next charter. SALTERSGATE (1) was laid-up from May to July,1933 after which she was engaged in Plate trading. HAGGERSGATE was laid-up at Avonmouth from June, 1932 moving round to Milford Haven in August and then to Fowey in November to continue lay-up. On her return to service in December,1933 she met with a series of accidents, starting with heavy weather in the Channel on sailing from Fowey for Cardiff to bunker resulting in her being towed into Brest, where she drydocked. A further dry docking at Cardiff and then she loaded coal at Barry, sailing on 11th January, 1934. When approximately 70 miles NW of Cape Finisterre she lost all propeller blades together with a broken stern frame and rudder unshipped, and was towed into Ferrol by EASTGATE (2). She was towed back to Cardiff by tugs and eventually sailed with coal to Buenos Aires and Rosario on 29th March, 1934. On her return home in December, 1934 she became disabled while moving from Birkenhead to Barry and was towed in by the ESKDALEGATE.

The fleet position on New Year's Day,1934 was as follows:
EASTGATE (2) On passage Buenos Aires for Manchester with grain.
ESKDALEGATE At Rosario 20th December.
FLOWERGATE Laid-up Tyne.
HAGGERSGATE Dry-docking Cardiff, due to load coal at Barry for Buenos Aires.
SANDGATE Laid-up Tyne.
SALTERSGATE (1) Sailed Las Palmas for Plate 27th December.
SKELDERGATE At Rosario 22nd December.
SOUTHGATE Sailed Para for New York 23rd December.
STONEGATE At Basra 18th December.
TRONGATE At Buenos Aires 28th December.
WAYNEGATE Passed Madeira for Rotterdam.
WHITEGATE Laid-up Tyne.

The predominant trade was thus coal out to the Plate from the Bristol Channel and grain homewards. Occasionally outward coal cargoes were taken from Tyne and Biyth to the Mediterranean, Canaries or Cape Verde Islands, and sometimes homeward vessels were placed on the Houlder Line berth at Buenos Aires. As a break in the monotony, cargoes of coal were sometimes taken down from the East Coast U.S.A. ports of Newport News and Norfolk to Rio de Janeiro and the Plate; plus timber cargoes from U.S. Gulf ports such as Port Arthur to the same destinations. A real change was the Pacific and Australian trading offered by two year charters to Andrew Weir & Co. Ltd taking phosphates from Nauru Island to Australia, particularly Melbourne. Company ships that participated in these charters throughout the 1920s and 1930s were: BAXTERGATE (2), EASTGATE (2), REDGATE (2), FLOWERGATE and WAYNEGATE. Nitrate charters from Antofagasta and Iquique and other ports in Chile for the Nitrate Corporation were usually discharged at Continental ports.

REDGATE (2) was purchased from Stephens,Sutton Ltd of Newcastle in 1935 as RIDLEY of 1929, this owner also purchasing the laid-up SANDGATE in 1936 and WHITEGATE in January,1937 for their Scrap & Build programme. All of the fleet were trading back at sea from this latter date, and the fleet was supplemented later in 1937 by the big ANGLO-INDIAN of 10020 dwt purchased from the Nitrate Producers S.S. Co. Ltd ( Lawther, Latta ) for £50,000 and renamed BAXTERGATE (2). She was kept on the Pacific phosphate and nitrate trading of her previous owner. EASTGATE (2) of 1915 was sold to Greek owners in November,1937 and renamed ADAMANTIOS, and the fleet voyage position in January,1938 was:
BAXTERGATE (2) Passed Niton 16th January for New Orleans.
ESKDALEGATE Leaving Cristobal 2nd February for Azores.
FLOWERGATE Leaving Malta 6th February for Spain.
REDGATE (2) Sailed Shanghai 10th January for Colombo.
SALTERSGATE (1) Left Partington 20th January for U.S. Gulf.
SKELDERGATE Passed Azores 3rd February for U.S. Gulf.
SOUTHGATE Passed Ushant 8th February for U.S. Gulf.
STONEGATE Due at Cardiff 3rd February.
TRONGATE Left Lisbon 28th January for New York.
WAYNEGATE Due at Rosario 4th February.

REDGATE was discharging cargo at Shanghai in August,1937 when the Sino-Japanese War broke out. The Chinese authorities threw a boom across the Whangpoo river to prevent penetration of the harbour by Japanese submarines and REDGATE remained incarcerated at Dollar Wharf, Pootung for 20 weeks until she finally made a break for freedom through a gap pierced by the Japanese Navy during their attack on Nantao. After drydocking at Shanghai she finally sailed on 10th January for Colombo, where she loaded for North Africa, La Pallice and Nantes.

Two company tramps were lost to enemy action and a third was lost after a fire:
05.10.1939 STONEGATE Sunk by DEUTSCHLAND in position 31-10 N, 54 W on voyage Antofagasta to Alexandria with nitrate.
24.02.1941 WAYNEGATE Torpedoed and sunk by U73 in North Atlantic on voyage Newport & Gourock to Freetown with coal.
11.04.1942 TRONGATE Sunk by Allied warships off Halifax (NS) after fire had broken out in her cargo which included explosives.


Nine Dutch vessels came under the management of the company in the summer of 1940 after the fall of Holland as well as the British WIDESTONE, which was lost together with six of the Dutchmen. EMPIRE SUMMER was managed from 1942 and purchased in 1945, and the long serving Capt. H.L. Brown took the new OCEAN GALLANT away from the Portland(Me) yard in September, 1942.
March Turnbull, Chairman of the company, was appointed Director of the Ship Management Division at the Ministry of Shipping on the outbreak of war. This took control of all British and Allied merchant ships, later becoming the Ministry of War Transport. March Turnbull was in overall charge with many other Baltic Exchange men under him to manage ships of each nationality e.g. one for Greek, Estonian, Latvian, Egyptian etc. and he was knighted for his services in 1941, when he became foreign shipping adviser. Basil Mavroleon sent March Turnbull two Thompson sub-machine guns from New York in the early part of the war for his own personal use! Sir March Turnbull died on 11th October,1943 aged 65 years having served on all the Tramp Shipping Advisory and River Plate Committees during his long career.

The company fleet survivors were the new motorship EASTGATE (3) of 1940, the first in the fleet, SOUTHGATE (3) of 1926 and sold in 1946, ESKDALEGATE and her sister SKELDERGATE (1) of 1930, REDGATE (2) of 1929 and BAXTERGATE (2) of 1925, the former ANGLO INDIAN. EMPIRE SUMMER was renamed STONEGATE (2) for the Turnbull Scott Shipping Co. Ltd. The Redgate S.S. Co. Ltd was left with only one tramp in 1947 after the sale of REDGATE (2) and BAXTERGATE (2).
SKELDERGATE was then lost on the East coast of India in November,1950 on a voyage from Madras to Calcutta with wheat. She ran on to a sandbank near False Bay in heavy weather and the tramp became a total loss. Her surviving sister ESKDALEGATE was also sold in 1950, both having been on charter at times to the Golden Cross Line Mediterranean liner service half owned by the company between 1946 and 1953. The whole of the issued share capital of the Redgate S.S. Co. Ltd was purchased in 1951 by France, Fenwick & Co. Ltd.

In 1951 the Turnbull Shipping Co. Ltd owned 5 tramps, four of these being EMPIRE types together with the motortramp EASTGATE (3) of 1940. A second motortramp was on order from the Burntisland yard and was delivered in July,1952 as FLOWERGATE (2) of 9450 dwt on a six year charter to Shaw, Savill & Albion Co. Ltd. The third motortramp in the fleet was purchased in October,1953 as INVERNESS from B.J. Sutherland & Co. Ltd following the death of Sir Arthur Sutherland on 29th March,1953. Renamed REDGATE (3) she had originally been built at Burntisland in 1945 as EMPIRE FREETOWN, and was a replacement for the first motortramp EASTGATE (3), sold in 1952 to Buries Markes Ltd.

The former grain carrying merchant aircraft carrier EMPIRE MACENDRICK which had been converted back into a cargo ship at Hamburg in 1951 was purchased in 1955 and renamed SALTERSGATE (2). Two other EMPIRE types were purchased in 1955 and like their sisters in the fleet were taken on long term charter by BISCO to carry iron ore to the U.K. throughout the 1950s with the charterer also purchasing most of them for scrap around 1960.

The tanker trades were entered for the first time in November,1957 with the completion of the 18100 dwt turbine powered EASTGATE (5) by J.L. Thompson & Sons Ltd, Sunder1and. She was bare boat chartered to SHELL for 20 years but did not complete this for she was heavily damaged amidships by collision and fire off Hong Kong on 30th March,1973 and scrapped at Kaohsiung three months later. A sister, STONEGATE (3), was completed by Smiths Dock Co. Ltd on the Tees in March,1961 for a similar bareboat-charter to SHELL, and when the charter was completed she was sold to Greek owners in 1981 and broken up at Chittagong in 1987.

SUNGATE of 10800 dwt was completed by Burntisland SB Co. Ltd in January, 1958 for a long term charter to Saguenay Terminals Ltd, the company then responsible for the shipping requirements of Alcan. Her first two maiden voyages were from St John (NB) to the Continent with aluminium ingots and grain. She then settled into her intended service carrying bauxite from British and Dutch Guiana to Port Alfred on the Saguenay river, and after loading at Georgetown, Mackenzie and Smalkalden to the depth of the harbour bar she topped up at Chaguaramas in Trinidad. Ingots of aluminium were then loaded at Port Alfred for the U.K., and she ballasted back to the Guianas. As a relief from this triangular service, she occasionally took processed bauxite (alumina) from the St. Lawrence to Kittimat, 400 miles N of Vancouver, returning with ingots and timber and grain to Eastern seaboard U.S.A./Canada.

BAXTERGATE(4) of 12250 dwt was completed at Burntisland in March,1962 to a remarkably similar design to the cargo liners that were then being built for Clan Line, to whom she was chartered for her maiden voyage from Glasgow, Birkenhead and Newport to Indian ports. Shortly before arrival at Madras a fire was discovered in No. 1 tween deck but was extinguished before much damage was done to the cargo or ship. On her return to the U.K. she was chartered to China carrying general cargo from China to Cuba, where she loaded sugar for U.K./Continent/Mediterranean ports and returned to China with general cargo. She remained on this charter until 1971, when she was renamed MEDIATOR for another charter and was sold in 1972.
ARLINGTON COURT of 14100 dwt completed by Bartram & Sons Ltd in April,1962 was purchased in January,1964 and renamed SOUTHGATE (4) while still on charter to the Chinese and continued on this until sold in 1969, her maiden voyage being from Casablanca (phosphates) and Lattakia (cotton) to Shanghai.

NAESS PARKGATE was a large 72000 dwt bulker completed on the Tees by Furness SB Co. Ltd in November,1966 for a bareboat-charter to Anglo Norness Shipping Co. Ltd. Her maiden voyage was from Tubarao in Brazil with iron ore for Emden, ballast to Pascagoula in the U.S. Gulf to load grain for the Continent. She remained in these trades until taken on charter by Broken Hill Proprietary (Australia) for Australian coastal iron ore shipments in 1974 and was renamed IRON PARKGATE. She was sold in 1978 while wearing the Anglo Norness name NORDIC TRADER.
FLOWERGATE (3) was an oil/bulk/ore carrier of 106700 dwt completed in late 1968 by Gotaverken of Gothenburg for a bareboat charter to Grangesberg of Sweden carrying iron ore from West Africa to Japan then ballast back to the Persian Gulf to load crude oil for U.K./Continent. Shortly after delivery she was found to have serious engine defects and required 4 months at the Wilton yard at Rotterdam before finally sailing for Brazil in April,1969. She was purchased by her charterer in 1974 and renamed PORJUS.

The coastal drycargo trades were entered in April, 1968 by the completion of the first of a dozen 2500 3000 dwt traders to be operated by the company over the next 15 years. HOLLAND PARK was built to the order of Park Steamships Ltd but the others were owned by Turnbull Scott Shipping Co. Ltd and Coronet Shipping Ltd. All were built in Holland for management by the company but under the chartering control of Otto Danielsen of Denmark. Three were launched on one day, 18th October, 1968, when SALTERSGATE (3), HYDE PARK and REDGATE (4) were put into the water sideways. The larger ESKDALEGATE (4) of 4179 dwt was purchased from Hull Gates Shipping Co. Ltd in 1974, and three new sisters of 5662 dwt joined the fleet from the Devon yard of Appledore SB Ltd in 1976: SOUTHGATE (6) and SANDGATE (2) and GREEN PARK. SANDGATE (2) loaded 4500 tons of bagged sugar at Liverpool for her maiden voyage to Lattakia in Syria.

The coastal chemical and oil trades were entered in 1968 with the formation of Whitehall Shipping Co. Ltd, half owned by the company and A.H. Basse Rederi A/S of Copenhagen. The ships were to have stainless steel cargo tanks, a fact signified by their STAINLESS names. Three of around 3000 dwt were built between 1970 and 1974 with the larger STAINLESS SPRAY of 10400 dwt completed in 1985 and sold in 1989. The coastal tanker SKELDERGATE (2) of 3500 dwt was completed in April,1976 at Lowestoft, and underwent modification at the Wear Dockyard in early 1984 to a water conversion and storage vessel for use in the Falklands. Expansion of coastal tankers was achieved on 8th December,1981 by the purchase of the fleet of the Hull Gates Shipping Co. Ltd and the holding company Fred Parkes Holdings.
Soon after the purchase HULLGATE became a constructive total loss at Milford Haven, leaving five coastal tankers EASTGATE, WESTGATE, HUMBERGATE, NORTHGATE and IRISHGATE all on charter to Rowbotham Tankships. However on 29th November, 1982 four of these were sold to the charterer with Turnbull, Scott Shipping Co. Ltd retaining IRISHGATE with a long demise charter to Rowbotham.

A return to traditional trades had been made in September, 1977 with the delivery of the geared 29600 dwt bulker by the Hiroshima yard of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd, TRONGATE (4). She traded satisfactorily, particularly in the Plate grain trade to Japan, but her earnings did not match interest repayments and she was sold at the end of 1979 to the Nile S.S. Co. Ltd (Finance for Shipping) for £5.24M with a bareboat-charter back at £850,000/year and was finally sold to Greek owners in 1983.
In 1986 the coastal tanker SKELDERGATE was bareboat chartered to Turkish owners and purchased two years later.
Only IRISHGATE was left in 1990 and with her sale the family owned Turnbull Scott Shipping Co. Ltd was sold to British buyers for £2.45M in May,1991.

Name Built Tons Builder Notes
HIGHGATE 1882 1,451 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1890 sunk in collision off Lundy.
SOUTHGATE (1) 1883 1,779 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1899 sold to Sweden renamed OTTO, 1900 sold same name, 1902 sold idem, 1903 wrecked off Terschelling.
NORTHGATE 1888 2,354 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1897 stranded at Sharpness.
EASTGATE (1) 1889 1,675 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1913 sold to Sweden renamed AMPHITRITE, 1919 sold renamed MORIA, 1928 sold to Latvia renamed AUSMA, 1950 deleted from register.
PARKGATE (1) 1889 2,242 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1904 sold to A.H. Bull & Co., USA renamed CAROLYN, 1912 wrecked near Rockland.
NETHERGATE (1) 1890 2,253 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1909 aground and total loss, 1910 sold to Uruguay renamed MALDONADO, 1918 sold to Cie. Francaise des Chemins de Fer de Paris-Orleans, France renamed BLOIS, 1929 sold to Cie. Delmas & Vieljeux same name, 1933 scrapped.
WESTGATE 1893 2,773 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1919 sank of Wolf Rock.
TRONGATE (1) 1897 2,553 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1917 torpedoed and sunk by German submarine UC-71 near Flamborough Head.
SOUTHGATE (2) 1899 3,661 Thomas Turnbull & Sons Ltd, Whitby 1924 sold to Italy for scrapping.
PARKGATE (2) 1906 3,232 R. Craggs & Sons Ltd, Middlesborough 1917 captured and sunk by German submarine U-35 near Cap de Fer.
EASTGATE (2) 1915 4,277 Wm. Gray & Co. Ltd, West Hartlepool 1937 sold to Adamas S.S. Co., Greece renamed ADAMTIOS, 1940 bombed and sunk by German aircraft at La Rochelle.
HELREDALE 1906 3,574 R. Craggs & Sons Ltd, Middlesborough Ex HELREDALE, 1918 purchased from Thomas Turnbull not renamed, 1929 sold to Greece renamed KAPETAN STRATIS, 1941 bombed and sunk by German aircraft off the West Coast of Ireland.
WHITEGATE (1) 1911 5,067 J.C. Tecklenborg A.G., Geestemunde Ex ARSTERTURM built for DDG Hansa, Bremen, 1919 allocated to Great Britain as war prize, 1920 purchased renamed WHITEGATE, 1937 scrapped.
FLOWERGATE (1) 1911 5,166 J.C. Tecklenborg A.G., Geestemunde Ex SCHILDTURM built for DDG Hansa, Bremen, 1919 allocated to Great Britain as war prize, 1921 purchased renamed FLOWERGATE, 1941 sold to C. Strubin & Co., London not renamed, 1944 scuttled as a blockship at Arromanches, 1946 refloated and scrapped.
NETHERGATE (2) 1908 5,096 J.C. Tecklenborg A.G., Geestemunde Ex WARTURM built for DDG Hansa, Bremen, 1914 seized by Great Britain, 1922 purchased renamed NETHERGATE, 1932 scrapped at Rosyth.
BAXTERGATE (1) 1905 5,679 Swan, Hunter & Wigham Richardson Ltd, Newcastle Ex RHEINFELS built for DDG Hansa, Bremen, 1914 seized by Great Britain, 1923 purchased renamed BAXTERGATE, 1933 scrapped.
HAGGERSGATE 1913 5,344 D. & W. Henderson & Co. Ltd, Glasgow Ex CHALISTER built for Chalister S.S. Co., 1924 purchased from Adam Bros., Aberdeen and renamed HAGGERSGATE, 1936 sold to Seereederei Frigga, Germany renamed HODUR, 1942 torpedoed and sunk by British submarine Trident off Namsos.
SOUTHGATE (3) 1926 4,862 J. Readhead & Sons Ltd, South Shields Laid down as ARABISTAN for F.C. Strick but completed as SOUTHGATE for TS, 1946 sold to Norway renamed OTTEID, 1947 sold to Greece renamed DIMITRIOS A. KYDONIEFS, 1960 scrapped at Hong Kong.
SALTERSGATE (1) 1924 3,940 Northumberland Shipbuilding Co., Newcastle-upon-Tyne Ex OVERSTONE, 1927 purchased from Rochdale S.S. Co. and renamed SALTERSGATE, 1944 sold to MOWT and sunk as a breakwater of Mulberry Harbour.
STONEGATE (1) 1928 5,044 Wm. Doxford & Sons, Sunderland 1939 sunk by gunfire from German pocket battleship DEUTSCHLAND.
ESKDALEGATE (1) 1930 4,250 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1950 sold to C. Macprang Jr., Flensburg, Germany renamed HOLSTEIN, 1960 sold to Brazil renamed MARISSA, 1971 wrecked.
WAYNEGATE (1) 1931 4,260 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1941 torpedoed and sunk by German submarine U-73.
EASTGATE (3) 1940 5,032 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1952 sold to Buries Markes, London renamed LA ESTANCIA, 1959 sold to Greece renamed KAPETAN KOSTIS, 1966 scrapped.
STONEGATE (2) 1941 6,949 Short Bros. Ltd, Sunderland Ex EMPIRE SUMMER, 1945 purchased from Minstry of War Transport not renamed 1946 renamed STONEGATE, 1955 sold to Germany renamed HASTEDT, 1959 sold to China renamed HO PING WU SHI ER, 1967 renamed ZHAN DOU 52, 1973 renamed HO PING 52, 1984 deleted from Lloyd’s Register.
SOUTHGATE (4) 1943 7,209 J. L. Thompson & Sons Ltd, Sunderland Ex EMPIRE BRUTUS built for Minstry of War Transport, ex VERGMOR 1948, 1950 purchased from Haddon S.S. Co. and renamed SOUTHGATE, 1955 sold to Turkey renamed FAITH, 1967 sold for demolition, 1968 scrapped.
WAYNEGATE (2) 1944 7,416 Bartram & Sons Ltd, Sunderland Ex MULLION CAVE built for the Admiralty, ex MARGARET CLUNIES 1948, 1951 purchased renamed WAYNEGATE, 1961 sold to Greece renamed KATINGO, 1964 sold to the Philippines renamed PRESIDENT MAGSAYSAY, 1968 renamed MAGSAYSAY, 1968 scrapped.
BAXTERGATE (3) 1944 7,072 Shipbuilding Corp. Ltd, Sunderland Ex EMPIRE COWDRAY built for Minstry of War Transport, ex Granhill 1948, 1951 purchased from Goulandris Bros., London renamed BAXTERGATE, 1960 scrapped.
FLOWERGATE (2) 1952 4,894 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1964 sold to Panama renamed AMENTY, 1977 scrapped at Troon.
REDGATE (3) 1945 7,132 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland Ex EMPIRE FREETOWN built for Minstry of War Transport, ex INVERNESS 1946, 1953 purchased from B.J. Sutherland & Co., Newcastle and renamed REDGATE, 1963 sold to Panama renamed AGIA ELPIS, 1967 sold to Cyprus same name, 1968 scrapped.
SALTERSGATE (2) 1944 4,975 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland Ex EMPIRE MACKENDRICK built for Minstry of War Transport, ex GRANPOND 1947, ex CONDOR 1951, 1955 purchased from Panama and renamed SALTERSGATE, 1957 sold to Bulgaria renamed VASSIL LEVSKY, 1967 trapped in Great Bitter Lake, 1975 released and scrapped.
EASTGATE (4) 1944 7,372 Litgows Ltd, Port Glasgow Ex TREVIDER, 1955 purchased from Hain S.S. Co., London and enamed EASTGATE, 1956 sold to Bulgaria renamed BALKAN, 1968 scrapped.
PARKGATE (3) 1945 7,133 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland Ex EMPIRE CALSHOT built for Minstry of War Transport, ex DERRYCUNIHY, ex ARGOBEAM, 1955 purchased from Argobeam Shipping and renamed PARKGATE, 1960 sold to Lebanon renamed PANAGOS, 1968 scrapped.
EASTGATE (5) 1957 12,166 J. L. Thompson & Sons Ltd, Sunderland Tanker, 1973 damaged in collision with CIRCEA, towed to Hong Kong and sold to Panama renamed GREAT FAREASTERN and scrapped.
SUNGATE Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1968 sold to Cyprus renamed ELIKON, 1978 sold renamed LISA, 1983 sold renamed MONTEVIDEO, 1984 scrapped.
STONEGATE (3 ) 1961 12,270 Smith’s Dock Co. Ltd, Middlesborough Tanker, 1981 sold to Greece renamed SUNNY, 1987 scrapped.
BAXTEGATE (4) 1962 8,813 Burntisland Shipbuilding Co. Ltd., Burntisland 1971 renamed MEDIATOR on charter, 1972 renamed BAXTERGATE, 1972 sold to Argrentina renamed MARVALIENTE, 1981 damaged by fire, sold renamed BRAVO NECK, 1981 sunk in collision.
SOUTHGATE (5) 1962 9,571 Bartram & Sons Ltd, Sunderland Ex ARLINGTON COURT, 1964 purchased from Court Line, London and renamed SOUTHGATE, 1969 sold to Wm. Brandts, London renamed GELA, 1977 sold not renamed, 1985 sold renamed CYCLOPUS, 1986 scrapped.
NAESS PARKGATE 1966 40,767 Furness Shipbuilding Co., Ltd, Haverton Hill-on-Tees 1974 renamed IRON PARKGATE on charter, 1975 renamed NORDIC TRADER, 1978 sold to Liberia renamed PANAMAX URANUS, 1984 renamed PANAMAX SOLAR, 1985 scrapped.
FLOWERGATE (3) 1968 58,589 A/B Gotaverken, Gothenburg 1974 sold to Granges A/B, Sweden renamed PORJUS, 1978 sold to Liberia renamed UNITED VENTURE, 1980 sold renamed SAAR ORE.
SALTERSGATE (3) 1968 1,426 Scheepswerf De Vooruitgang, Foxhol 1976 sold to Panama renamed LUSTAR, 1982 sold renamed LADY NINA.
REDGATE (4) 1968 1,426 Scheepswerf Gebr. van Diepen, Waterhuizen 1977 sold to Panama renamed ANNEMIEKE, 1978 foundered off Petershead.
WAYNEGATE (3) 1971 1,594 Ast. Construcciones S.A., Vigo 1976 renamed MONKCHESTER on charter, 1978 sold to Charles M. Willie & Co., Cardiff renamed CELTIC VENRURE, 1991 sold renamed Lydia Flag.
TRONGATE (3) 1968 1,432 E.J. Smit & Zoon’s Scheepswerf N.V., Westerbroek Ex HOLLAND PARK, 1971 transferred from Park Steamships and renamed TRONGATE, 1973 sold to Denmark renamed NINA LONBORG, 1976 sold to Oost Atlantic Lijn renamed ADINE, 1977 sold to Lebanon renamed MUHIEDDINE.
HIGHGATE (2) 1972 1,600 E.J. Smit & Zoon’s Scheepswerf N.V., Westerbroek 1982 sold renamed MARIA, 1984 renamed MARIA I.
WHITEGATE (2) 1972 1,600 Scheepswerf Gebr. van Diepen, Waterhuizen 1982 sold renamed HELENA, 1986 sold renamed TALEA.
ESKDALEGATE (2) 1969 2,889 Schiffswerft Neptun, Rostock Tanker, Ex BRUNI, ex FREDERICKSGATE, 1974 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping and renamed ESKDALEGATE, 1977 sold to Cyprus renamed ELISABETH.
NORDIC TRADER See NAESS PARKGATE.
BAXTERGATE (5) 1976 1,598 E.J. Smit & Zoon’s Scheepswerf N.V., Westerbroek 1980 sold renamed BALLYKERN.
SKELDERGATE (2) 1976 1,599 Richards Shipbuilders Ltd, Lowestoft Tanker, 1983 sold renamed CABO AZUL, 1984 repurchased renamed SKELDERGATE, 1986 sold renamed YASEMIN S, 1990 sold renamed TIGER CAT.
FLOWERGATE (4) 1976 1,598 Scheepswerf Gebr. van Diepen, Waterhuizen 1982 sold to Intermarine Rotterdam renamed BLOEMPOORT, 1983 sold renamed WHITEHALL, 1985 sold renamed CHIVAS, 1988 sold renamed MARATHON, 1996 sold renamed REDA, 2002 sold renamed AL KARIM.
SOUTHGATE (6) 1976 3,687 Appledore Shipbuilders Ltd, Appledore 1983 sold to Turkey renamed FERAY, 1983 sold renamed SOUTHERN STAR, 1984 sold renamed UGUR YILDIZI, 1991 sold renamed AGIOS SPYRIDON.
SANDGATE (2) 1976 3,687 Appledore Shipbuilders Ltd, Appledore 1982 sold to J. Fisher renamed ATLANTC FISHER, 1988 sold to Arklow Shipping, Ireland renamed ARKLOW BEACH.
SALTERSGATE (4) 1976 3,687 Appledore Shipbuilders Ltd, Appledore Ex GREEN PARK, 1977 purchased renamed SALTERSGATE, 1982 sold renamed HERMENIA.
TRONGATE (4) 1977 18,604 Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd, Hiroshima 1983 sold to Greece renamed MARIA SITINAS.
HULLGATE 1970 1,594 R. Dunston, Hessle Tanker, ex HULLGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1981 damaged by explosion at Milford Haven and scrapped.
EASTGATE (6) 1979 1,599 Kanrei Zosen K.K., Naruto Tanker, ex EASTGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1982 sold to Rowbotham not renamed, 1993 transferred to P&O Tankships, 1996 to James Fisher.
WESTGATE (2) 1979 1,599 Kanrei Zosen K.K., Naruto Tanker, ex WESTGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1982 sold to Rowbotham not renamed, 1993 transferred to P&O Tankships, 1996 to James Fisher.
HUMBERGATE 1968 997 R. Dunston, Hessle Tanker, ex HUMBERGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1982 sold to Rowbotham not renamed, 1990 sold to Greece renamed KORINTHIA.
NORTHGATE (2) 1981 1,599 Kanrei Zosen K.K., Naruto Tanker, ex NORTHGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1982 sold to Rowbotham not renamed, 1993 transferred to P&O Tankships, 1996 to James Fisher.
IRISHGATE 1981 1,599 Kanrei Zosen K.K., Naruto Tanker, ex IRISHGATE, 1981 purchased from Hull Gates Shipping not renamed, 1990 sold to Rowbotham not renamed, 1993 transferred to P&O Tankships, 1996 to James Fisher.

Your info is sketchy on the Sungate after her days with Saguenay, she was far east for some time running grain from Vancouver and Sydney to Communist China, also recall a trip with East Africa Line, could be other trips Frank

lawrence Croxford
19th May 2009, 20:05
Hi Thats A Blast From The Past Who Remembers This Old Company Any Ships Names And Photos Sam2182sw

Hi,SAM, I joined ss Southgate at Tilbury Docks April 9th 1953 as a catering Boy fresh from HMS Worcester at Greenhithe Kent, while the Worcester is for training mainly deck apprentices they did have 12 catering trainees after a year you were given a letter of introduction to the federation at Tilbury(cheap labour) I got the southgate as my first Deep sea voyage which was to last a year and nine days, I was payed off in Hamburg April 17th 1954 after a visit to a german dentist who managed to break my jaw, not one of my better days. that first trip was general cargo to the west indies, then bauxite to sagenay, most of the voyage was spent on the east coast of the US with two trips to Rotterdam and the last for me to Hamburg but the Southgate was reloading for the west indies again, the ship was crewed with Arab Firemen and Malays on Deck, the Chief cook Had a reputation as a bully which did land him in a New York cell for a couple of nights, he was to meet an untimely end, he bullied one crewman to many on another ship sometime later who promptly lost his temper and ran him through with a galley knife, on the second crossing of the atlantic from New York which seemed to take forever we were passed by the Queen Mary as we left New York, we were to see her again on her way back to N/York, only to be passed again in the channel as she headed for Cherbourg I feel this must be some kind of record for slowness, not much chance of a Blue Riband there. On our second visit to Kingston w/i A certain Errol Flynn came alongside on his sailboat draped with lovely women scrounging english ciggaretts. I lost the tip of a finger in bad weather crossing the deck with an armfull of plates, Got thrown out of Jack Dempsys bar in N/York,for being under age, was kept on a late night bus by the driver who drove me to the dock gate to make sure I got back to the ship safely(off his route) nice guy, back then if you saw my dicharge book photo most people would think I shoud not be allowed out without my mother, but that 12 months on the Southgate was probably the best introduction to a life at sea that has not been regretted, if I do have one regret it is the fact that I never had a camera with me, unlike the Captain, who I think looking at my discharge book was called B, Thorn, the other signature is W,White, in the gulf of St Lawrence he stopped the ship to film dead whales and orcas fighting over the carcasse, an interesting first trip Larry Croxford
l

johnb42
4th June 2009, 10:41
I sailed as 2nd Mate in the Sungate on her last voyage for Turnbull Scott. Must get my Discharge Book out for the dates, but I think it was the back end of 67 and the front end of 68. We spent about a month in Japan discharging general from Red China, and handed the ship over to new Greek owners in Nagoya. I remember the Super - Don Gavin as he spent a lot of time with us in Japan prior to the sale. From memory the Master's name was Simpson, the Mate was unfortunately named Woolias - most of us emphasised the 3rd syllable - the 3rd Mate was Sinclair, there was an apprentice I remember only as "Scotty" (he was English and Scott may have been his surname). The memory bank is a bit scant on the others like the Chief Steward who was only ever known a Wacker, an engineer called Gerry and so on. I remember it being a really good time and that we had a ship's dog too. I inherited the job of looking after her - a black cocker spaniel who came out of the dog pound in Vancouver. We were all very cut-up when we had to transfer her to the Baxtergate in Tokyo (or maybe Yokohama) before the ship was sold. Lots and lots of memories of that voyage.

John Bateson
30th June 2009, 15:13
Hi,
I am the grandaughter of Captain Price who was Eastgates master at the time of the collision in Hong Kong 1973. Unfortunately, he passed away in 1995 when I was 6 yrs old. My aunty remembers hearing about the collision on the radio and also recalls seeing photos on the front of the Argus, a local newspaper from the area where they lived. I am very interested in finding out more about the incident, I have found one picture of the Eastgate sometime before the collision on the internet. If anyone has any other links to photos or newspaper archives they would be appreciated.
Thanks, Jo

I am the son of the Chief Engineer who was onboard the Eastgate that day. John Bateson was the C/E who finally retired from sea service in 2005. My father has an extensive scrap book of all of the newspaper cuttings from that day. I always found that quite fascinating as a child. I followed my father's footsteps to sea and joined Shell after leaving school. I am now an Engineer Superintendent for Shell Tankers Australia, living in Perth Western Australia.

John Bateson
30th June 2009, 15:38
Doug: Bateson was he the company man, worked up from eng/apprentice, having spent several trips on Eastgate, who we knew as 'John the One'. Rumour had it that he was chief on board and instrumental in helping to save crew from the water, anyone know what happened to him?

Frank

The Chief at the time of the collision was my father John Bateson. He finally retired in 2005 and resides in East Yorkshire.

STORM
12th July 2009, 17:02
I sailed as 3/E with C/E Frank Graham on the chemical tanker STAINLESS SPRAY way back in 1987. As you have mentioned, it took a while to know him and what a wonderful person he turned out to be. Understand that he has now retired, but could you please give me his contact details if possible. Also sailed with C/E Ian Murcott, Capt. James Hirst, Capt. Ian Odd, 2/E Pringle & 2/E Ian Goodall. Any news on them.

Earlier in 1986 , I sailed as 4/E on the SYCEE ( ex MARILOCK) with a wonderful crowd which included Capt. Falconer, C/E Phil Chandler, 2/E Mike Beech, 3/E Ian Webster, C/O Lawrence Aye Maung.

After my stint on the STAINLESS SPRAY , I joined as 2/E on SAINT CLOUD. By then most of the old crowd had left TURNBULL. Eddie Green was the Technical Supereintendent for all the above vessels.

Raymond

Hello Raymond - I haven't been on the site for a while. I have phone numbers for Ian Odd and Frank Graham but I'm not sure if it's permitted to publicly give them out on this site. No problem PMing me if you want to & I'll send them to you. Ian Goodall is still at sea I think but I don't know who with - it's just possible I might see him soon as I am hoping to get to a 50th birthday in RHB which Ian will be at if he's at home. Met Peter Cooper (son) a few weeks ago and also Steve Donkersley. Neither have changed very much at all for those who remember them at all. I remember Ian Murcott, Robin Pringle and James Hirst but have no idea where they are.

Someone was asking about Nick White. The last time I saw him was 1982 ish when he was C/O on the Marilock. He wet to school at Conway & might possibly be on Friends Reunited.

Andrew.

(Email address removed as per site policy - http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=17182 )

seanmac
18th July 2009, 18:57
I am the son of the Chief Engineer who was onboard the Eastgate that day. John Bateson was the C/E who finally retired from sea service in 2005. My father has an extensive scrap book of all of the newspaper cuttings from that day. I always found that quite fascinating as a child. I followed my father's footsteps to sea and joined Shell after leaving school. I am now an Engineer Superintendent for Shell Tankers Australia, living in Perth Western Australia.
I am the son of the man that died on the Eastgate

stores
18th July 2009, 22:23
Sam,Re.turnbull scott.There is a good history of this company in"Travels of the Tramps" Vol.3 by Norman Middlemiss with 7 photos.IBSN 1 871128 080.May be out of print now though was published 1992. Pierhead jumper.

hi from stores, i just bought vol 2 travels of the tramps from ABE,S BOOKS on line £20 , they had vol 3 for sale as well, STORES.

J.Bateson
20th July 2009, 17:30
The chief engineer on board at the time of the collision was Rodger Bateson.

Chief Engineer on board at the time of the collision was me, John Bateson.
There was a C/E called Rodger Bedson in Turnbulls at the time.

seanmac
21st July 2009, 19:09
A message of Sympathy,Warm and sincere,To tell you our thoughts, Will be constantly near. From John and Valerie Bateson and family, Chief Engineer Eastgate.John i still have the sympathy card you sent to my family.From John Mc Dermott,junior

STORM
25th July 2009, 10:22
This is a real longshot but is there anyone around who sailed on the Parkgate in 1956 / 57. It was the last ship my grandfather Raymond Storm was Captain of before he retired.

wilfred
31st July 2009, 22:14
There is a booklet "Turnbull Scott & Co by H S Appleyard published by The world Ship Society,Kendal LA9 7LT 1978,which gives a history on Turnbull Scott and their other companies,Redgate Steamship Co Ltd,The Golden cross line Ltd,park Steamships Ltd,Whitehall Shipping Co Ltd and others.There were 5 Baxtergates.
I sailed on Baxtergate No 2. 14/03/46 until 26/02/47.
Wilfred

Billy1963
3rd August 2009, 11:18
Only ever sailed on one of Turbull Scott's the Skeldergate. Joined in Sunderland 22/1/85. Refused to join her when I first saw the state of this little chemical tanker when I leaned over the dock and saw it. Gill and I were buying a house at the time so I decided to give it a go. The ship was returning to a chemical run after being in the Falklands making fresh water. Spent most of the time around Europe & Mediterranean and up in the Black Sea. Put into drydock first week aboard after a large crack appeared across the deck. Only 11 crew on the ship with me being the youngest and only had an average of twelve hours in port in the middle of nowhere so was extremely boring. Had only two half day runs ashore in three and a half months. The ship did not handle the bad weather to well and I suffered terrible bouts of sea sickness. Paid off Rotterdam 1/5/85.

NB: The house will be all paid for next year and mortgage free (==D)

JKB
7th August 2009, 05:52
Maritiem said:
"SANDGATE (2) 1976 3,687 Appledore Shipbuilders Ltd, Appledore 1982 sold to J. Fisher renamed ATLANTC FISHER, 1988 sold to Arklow Shipping, Ireland renamed ARKLOW BEACH."

I can add a little bit to this, having seen her in Immingham last year. She became the SUNRANA when sold to a Norweigian firm in about 1996 and was the MOON FOX, and for sale, operated by Fox Shipping of Latvia when I saw her. There are a couple of pictures of her in the gallery under this name.

JKB.

marcht
1st September 2009, 17:57
Hi - I'm afraid I don't know a great deal about these ships (though as a child I went on board a number of them). I grew up in a family that was involved with the company and I have a pretty complete collection of photos of TS ships.

This thread goes back a couple of years but I should be able to dig out and scan / email specific pics if that would be of interest or help to anyone.

Cheers from rainy Cape Town.

wbtk
2nd September 2009, 02:19
Please do post any pic,s you might have,I am sure they will be of interest to many

Ed.
2nd September 2009, 19:50
Hi - I'm afraid I don't know a great deal about these ships (though as a child I went on board a number of them). I grew up in a family that was involved with the company and I have a pretty complete collection of photos of TS ships.

This thread goes back a couple of years but I should be able to dig out and scan / email specific pics if that would be of interest or help to anyone.

Cheers from rainy Cape Town.

Hi March. Fantastic to hear from you. "a family that was involved with the company" Theres an understatement!!

vela
6th September 2009, 15:24
Hi,
I am the grandaughter of Captain Price who was Eastgates master at the time of the collision in Hong Kong 1973. Unfortunately, he passed away in 1995 when I was 6 yrs old. My aunty remembers hearing about the collision on the radio and also recalls seeing photos on the front of the Argus, a local newspaper from the area where they lived. I am very interested in finding out more about the incident, I have found one picture of the Eastgate sometime before the collision on the internet. If anyone has any other links to photos or newspaper archives they would be appreciated.
Thanks, Jo

Saddened to hear that Capt Price has passed away
I only discovered this site today and learned of this news
I was the 2nd Officer on the Bridge with Capt. Trevor Price at the time of the collision. I also attended the subsequent Court of Enquiry with him.
I do have photo's and newspaper cuttings from the Hong Kong newspapers.
Barry Scott

seanmac
15th September 2009, 16:35
Saddened to hear that Capt Price has passed away
I only discovered this site today and learned of this news
I was the 2nd Officer on the Bridge with Capt. Trevor Price at the time of the collision. I also attended the subsequent Court of Enquiry with him.
I do have photo's and newspaper cuttings from the Hong Kong newspapers.
Barry Scott

I am intrested in any recollection from that day,John Mc Dermott junior

valencia59
19th November 2009, 18:16
Hi Tony,
I remember sailing on the Sealock '84 or '85 (the mind wanders at times), I was working for Electronav who supplied the r/o's and had done a couple of trips on the Fenlock before this. If I remember rightly it was her second voyage and John Werner joined part way through the trip, he was ex Blue flu/ocean, very formal we thought at the time.
That was until he went ashore for a charterers party, I think it was in oz somewhere. We didn't see much of him for the next couple of days and it was only when the chief eng. George Ohikere told us later that he had too many sherberts and fell on to the glass table holding all the food thus depositing it on the floor, that we realised why !
He was a good captain and I enjoyed sailing with him... with all the guys on that ship actually.

magicred
14th December 2009, 18:42
Well I had the pleasure of serving on the Trongate in 1974.I joined her as Asst Steward at Ayr.I had a brilliant 7 months on her.We went to Rouen for grain which went to Tallinn.We spent 3 weeks in the bay,the Russkies used to come out every day to check that the grain was still in good order.My first experience of Communist Russia.That's another story.We also went to Porsgrunn in Norway,to load ore for Venezuela.Then onto New Orleans with timber,In between times we hit a hurricane going to New Orleans,lost most of our deck cargo and radio mast,A voyage not for the faint hearted.We ended up paying off in Holland where I think she was being sold.For such a small ship we had some great adventures on her.Mostly Scots crew,used to drink with Ronnie and Pete,they came from Hamilton and Blantyre.I have some photos somewhere will dig them out in the new year.

Donks
16th December 2009, 20:36
For Ex Turnbulls members, regret to advise Captain Peter Cooper (Senior) passed away on Fri 11th December 09. For more details see the "Shipmates Remembered" thread.

seanmac
22nd December 2009, 19:02
any information on the eastgate collision would be appreciated

STORM
21st January 2010, 19:54
Was Nick a big man with a busy beard, a fondness for Rum and a great collection of the Goon Show on cassette, if it is i sailed with him on the Highgate when he fell overboard during lifeboat drill on his birthday !!

We could have crossed paths. I was with Turnbull's from 77 - 84.

I had a long chat with Paddy last year. He is as full of life as ever - now lives in the USA, still mad keen on Rugby (in fact he tried to persuade me to take part in a Charity match last September) and he has a senior role in ship safety.

You must have been at Greenhithe on Phase 1 at the same time I was on Phase 3 - do you remember any others??

Andrew.

Buster2003
22nd January 2010, 00:23
We could have crossed paths. I was with Turnbull's from 77 - 84.

I had a long chat with Paddy last year. He is as full of life as ever - now lives in the USA, still mad keen on Rugby (in fact he tried to persuade me to take part in a Charity match last September) and he has a senior role in ship safety.

You must have been at Greenhithe on Phase 1 at the same time I was on Phase 3 - do you remember any others??

Andrew.

Andrew,
You mentioned having a long chat with "Paddy" I wondered if it was Paddy Baines you were refering too. I sailed with him several times on the Stainless Warrior and the Skeldergate.

Clive

vic pitcher
22nd January 2010, 08:41
Andrew,
You mentioned having a long chat with "Paddy" I wondered if it was Paddy Baines you were refering too. I sailed with him several times on the Stainless Warrior and the Skeldergate.

Clive

Paddy Baines, originally from Kirby Lonsdale, attended Liverpool Nautical College's "pre-sea" course with me in 1955 and served his time with Manchester Liners. He was with Lamports for a while before joining Turnbulls, I came across him at Liverpool doing Mate and Master 1963 and 1966.
I next came in touch with him in the Tees around 1979 when I was Master of "Pass of Glenclunie" and he was Master of the "Stainless" something or other.
I had somehow got hold of an address for him in Stainsacre, close to Whitby and a few years ago when I was in the area, I tried to look him up; however a neighbour told me that he had died a few years before.
If this is incorrect and he is in fact still with us, I would like to get in touch, plese PM me with any contact details.

fweapril04
24th January 2010, 21:51
Turnbull Scott update.

In addition to Captain Peter Cooper's passing :-

Ken Thorne (now then young man) 'crossed the bar' September 2000.

P.J.(Paddy) Baines & wife Muriel apparantly passed 'years ago'.

2nd Engineer Terry 'On the Ball' Maule passed 2009 (cancer).

valencia59
14th February 2010, 00:40
I sailed with capt. Ken Thorne on the Fenlock. As a young R/O he scaed the living S....T out of me.
A great blole when I got to know him, he always invied us to his cabin for beers on a Sunday (no bar on the ship !)

STORM
5th April 2010, 21:04
Andrew,
You mentioned having a long chat with "Paddy" I wondered if it was Paddy Baines you were refering too. I sailed with him several times on the Stainless Warrior and the Skeldergate.

Clive

Hi Clive - I was referring to Paddy Shrimpton who was Cadet with Turnbull's at the same time as me. I did sail with Paddy Baines a couple of times on the Skeldergate though. I believe Paddy and his wife (Muriel?) both died of throat cancer within a few months of each other.

Sad to hear Ken Thorne has gone as well. I well remember him hauling me up the road in Houston for him to do some shopping with me adjudicating on his selection. The occasional warning shot of "Now then young man" kept me from overstepping the mark.

Andrew.

seanmac
28th July 2010, 19:16
I am the son of the Chief Engineer who was onboard the Eastgate that day. John Bateson was the C/E who finally retired from sea service in 2005. My father has an extensive scrap book of all of the newspaper cuttings from that day. I always found that quite fascinating as a child. I followed my father's footsteps to sea and joined Shell after leaving school. I am now an Engineer Superintendent for Shell Tankers Australia, living in Perth Western Australia.
I am the son of one of the men who died that night

Landi
20th August 2010, 11:46
In 1974 I joined Turnbull's, as Engineer Cadet, Poplar Tech and King Ted's. 1976 joined Sandgate, and sailed on the following ships Stonegate, Southgate, Trongate, Hyde Park, Fenlock, Whitehall, Fairmead, Skeldergate, last voyage with Turnbulls on Stainless Spray in 1990 as Second Engineer, which was the last ship they were involved with, just before she was sold.

Folks I have sailed with.

Captains:
Trevor Price, (a big bear of a guy, with an easy manner and happy outlook, who was a pleasure to sail with)
Ken H Thorne, (I guy who could send a shiver up anyone's spine, Young man......................)
Matt England.
Ian Odd, (Still sailing on Chemi tankers, occasional contact.)
Gentleman Jim Hurst
Peter Cooper, (Recently past away)
Alan Falconer (The silver fox)
Howard Vane
John Werner
Colin Henry Roberts, (less said the better)

Chief Engineers:
Frank Graham (Still in regular contact, but the rollups are finally slowing him down)
Ian Murcott. (A gentleman with a love of Alvis cars)
John Bateson (John the One)
Rodger Bedson
Peter Findley
Frank Foster

Engineers:
Tom Black, Ian Lamie, Jimmy ??? Barney ???? Bill Foster, Alan Johnston, Roy Fairbairn, Raymond Sequeira, Robin Pringle, Mike Beach, Ian Webster (a Chief on a Dive support boat), Terry Maule.

Electricians:
Gareth Burns.

Navigators:
Steve Donkersley (In contact, Captain RFA), Phil Pannet (In contact Captain he trains Humber pilots), Paul Myers (In contact, Captain Stolt Nielsen), Peter Cooper Jr (In contact, Captain Dive Barge in the Gulf), Dave Estill (Captain now a Humber Pilot), Frank Freeman, Phil Wigglesworth, Malcolm Allen, Barry Stevenson, Andy Fennimore, Barry Scott, Paddy and Phil Shrimpton.

Galley:
Terry Deighton, Mr Cheng. Pete ????

Supers:
Walter Swan, Don Gavin, Eddie Green

Office:
Fred Harris (I will just pencil you in) and Peter Storm.

And many more guys who's names are on the tip of my tongue, but the memories of you all linger on, oily and sweaty from a Doxford crankcase inspection, baffled by the latest lump to fall off a KDMR8 Major, deep sea or coasting, the good times we had onboard and ashore. While I was with Turnbulls I did not realise how good it was until on leaving I found I had lost that friendly family company spirit and bond of shared times. If you look at the number of Captains and Chiefs they have produced, not bad for a small Whitby Tramp Company.

When the Company sold the last ship they had interest in, the Stainless Spray in early 1991, they concentrated on the truck supply, MAK parts supply and security businesses they had built up. A few years ago Frank Graham purchased a safe, and when he got it home was surprised to find it was made by Turnbull & Scott.

After Turnbull's I did 15 years with Stolt Nielsen and have now been with BP 4 years, currently sailing as Chief on the British Ruby, a Dual Fuel, Diesel Electric, LNG tanker, which is just a little different to the P type Doxford on the Stonegate.

Cheers guys, contact me if we sailed together, I am still in Whitby, call in for a beer or two.

Ian

J.Bateson
19th September 2010, 12:23
I am rewriting the history of all the ships owned and managed by Turnbull Scott from 1872 to 1991. If anyone has any photos, of ships owned and managed by TS, and would like them to be published in my book, please contact me via e mail and ships nostalgia. Best Regards to All John Bateson Turnbull Scott 1961-1983

Binnacle
19th September 2010, 14:06
Jo,
Have a look at this site. There are number of Eastgates to chose from.

http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Ships/Old%20Ships%20E/slides/Eastgate-01.html

Good Luck

Landi
20th September 2010, 17:52
Hi John,

Whitby Gazette archives for the older ships?

A letter in the newspaper asking for pictures?

Ian.

John David Mair
22nd December 2010, 04:40
No this was not me I don't think I ever attended the Redgate - it is likely to have been Walter Swan or Don Gavin or if of a later date Eddie Green.

My dad (stepfather) was Walter Swan, died 83.

I have a few pictures of TS ships and Shipping Venture, the history of TS.

Ed.
22nd March 2011, 21:10
I just came across the Obituary for Andrew Motyl.
Born 11th April 1929.
Died. Boston. Lincs. 30th Jan 2011.
Andy will be remembered fondly by many who sailed with TS.
A wonderful man. A good friend. Skilled and resourceful.
I first met him in about October 1969. My first Chief Engineer's job on the Hyde Park. He relieved George Scanlon Duncan as Second Engineer. Pat joined the ship later, I well remember our stays in Londonderry and The Canaries.
At the end of The War Andy was a boy living in his home of Poland. He started walking West and did not stop until he reached England. The determination to make that journey and then obtain and complete training as an Engineer can only be imagined.
Later on Andy and Bob Barnard were the basis of the Turnbull Scott Repair Squad. The team became well known, respected and called for throughout the fleet. Completed some amazing work.
As far as I know Andy had no ties in England and in his methodical and logical Polish way he thoroughly studied the property market and decided that Boston was the place where he could get the most house for his money.
Andy - you helped me a great deal, made my life easier and brighter.
How I wish we had kept in touch.
Eddie Green.

Mjroots
24th April 2011, 08:39
Just a heads up, found this thread whilst researching the 1944-built Baxtergate, ex Empire Cowdray and Granhill. Am currently writing an article on this ship for Wikipedia. Should be up in next day or so.

trotterdotpom
24th April 2011, 12:53
I remember being alongside a Turnbull Scott ship in Archangel (about 1972) -sorry can't remember the name, but she was probably loading sawn timber and a regular visitor to the port. One day I was listening to the World Service News and it turned out that the British Government had just kicked out 106 Russian spies (think they'd been employed in Lada dealerships all over the country). The Belgian government kicked out about another 50.

Early in the evening the mission bus arrived to take ships' crews to the Interclub in town. The bus was packed and there were a couple of "hostesses" from the club on board. A young man from the Turnbull Scott ship, who turned out to be the Chief Engineer, was quite familiar with the girls and was chatting with them. He told them that two of the ship's seamen had had their shorepasses revoked because they'd returned on board after midnight. One of the hostesses said: "Their is nothing to do in Archangel after midnight, they must have been up to no good!" The Chief replied: "Well, in retaliation for this, my government has just expelled 106 of your diplomats!"

His snappy answer brought the house down, except for the hostesses who said: "Your radio lies."

John T.

GeeM
15th May 2011, 00:21
I am rewriting the history of all the ships owned and managed by Turnbull Scott from 1872 to 1991. If anyone has any photos, of ships owned and managed by TS, and would like them to be published in my book, please contact me via e mail and ships nostalgia. Best Regards to All John Bateson Turnbull Scott 1961-1983

John

I am Martin Gee, I sailed with Turnbulls as Engineer Cadet from 79 to 83 and then subsequently on the Marilock, Rangelock and St Aubin. When you get that book completed please let me know how I can purchase one.

J.Bateson
28th June 2011, 20:40
Urgently looking for photographs of these two ships. Can any ex TS personnal help please ? Best Regards John Bateson

BillH
29th June 2011, 07:54
Urgently looking for photographs of these two ships. Can any ex TS personnal help please ? Best Regards John Bateson

John,

You may have a struggle. I could not locate them when I was finalising my book on Jebsens a few years ago. Not even the Jebsen had one in their archives.

The following is the detail extracted from my Jebsen book, the accuracy and content of which was verified by Atle Jebsen and other directors before they would permit commitment to press.

The gist of reasoning for inclusion of this pair was that Jebsen were in partnership with Wheelock Marden when the latter went base upward early 1980’s and almost took the Jebsen Group with them. This was at a time when the partners had numerous vessels on order or under construction.
A frantic re-financing operation was undertaken by Jebsen if just for survival. Many contracts and vessels were sold or cancelled. Jebsen suffered horrendous financial loss and it was at that time many vessels were renamed GENERAL *********** or MANILA ******* and transferred to Philippine flag.
This pair and a few others were deemed a lesser risk because Jebsen only had 25% shareholding.
The dates in brackets next to the name is the period in which Jebsen stated that the had a financial interest.

Obviously the histories are incomplete as I did not continue after the book was published.


8201337
157. PHILIPPINE KAMIA / ST AUBIN (1984 – 1989) Kamia class
12,539g. 7,897n. 18,100d. 160.03 x 22.20 x 8.818 metres oa.
5-cyl. 2 S.C.S.A. (550 x 1,380mm) B&W 5L55GFCA type oil engine made by Hudong Shipyard, Shanghai. 6,700 bhp. 13.75 kts.
Bulk carrier with four 15-ton cranes capable of operating grabs carried aboard.
1982: Ordered by Wheelock Marden & Company Ltd., Hong Kong, from Guangzhou Shipyard, Guangzhou / Canton (Yard No. 1105).
25.3.1983: Keel laid as PHILIPPINE KAMIA.
5.3.1984: Launched for Poole Shipping Ltd., (Wheelock Marine Ltd., managers), Hong Kong.
30.11.1984: Completed as ST. AUBIN for Yorkshire Bank Leasing Ltd., (Turnbull, Scott Management Ltd., managers), Hong Kong. (O.N.708292).
1985: Owners restyled as Yorkshire Bank Lease Management Ltd., (same managers).
1989: Sold to Triple-Crown Company Inc., (Fenwick Shipping Services Ltd., managers), Philippines, and renamed CALATAGAN.
1995: Sold to Botelho Shipping Corporation, Philippines, (same managers).
1999: Sold to Galaxy Shipping Ltd., Hong Kong, (same managers), and renamed ST. AUBIN.
2002: Sold to Thymus Shipping Ltd., Dubai, (Tradeline Inc, Dubai, managers), and renamed REGAL STAR, under St Vincent and The Grenadines flag.


8201351
170. MANILA SPIRIT / ST.CLOUD (1985 – 1994) Kamia class
12,519g. 6,153n. 18,411d. 160.0 x 22.05 x 8.802 metres oa.
5-cyl. 2 S.C.S.A. (550 x 1,380mm) B&W 5L55GFCA type oil engine made by Hudong Shipyard, Shanghai. 6,700 bhp. 13.75 kts.
Bulk carrier with four 15-ton cranes capable of operating grabs carried aboard.
1982: Ordered by Wheelock Marden & Company Ltd., Hong Kong, from Guangzhou Shipyard, Guangzhou/Canton (Yard No. 1107).
24.8.1984: Keel laid as hull sub-contract by Dalien Shipyard, Dalien (Yard No. B.270/7).
24.1.1985: Launched as MANILA SPIRIT for Wheelock Marden & Company, Hong Kong.
29.3.1985: Completed as ST. CLOUD by Guangzhou Shipyard, Guangzhou/Canton (Yard No. 1107), for Yorkshire Bank Lease Management Ltd., (Turnbull, Scott Management Ltd., managers), Hong Kong. (O.N. 708319).
1991: Fenwick Shipping Services Ltd., appointed as managers.
1994: Sold to Breton Ltd., Hong Kong, (same managers).
2002: Sold to Zhoushan Zhongchang Shipping Company, Zhoushan, China, retaining Hong Kong flag.

Bill

tiachapman
29th June 2011, 08:15
joined the BAXTERGATE 1956 IN MIDDLESBORUGH engaged in the iron ore trade

J.Bateson
29th June 2011, 17:21
Re St.Aubin & St.Cloud- Thanks for the info Bill. Have sent you an e mail via Ships nostalgia. Best Regards John

BillH
29th June 2011, 20:29
Re St.Aubin & St.Cloud- Thanks for the info Bill. Have sent you an e mail via Ships nostalgia. Best Regards John

Thanks John,

Not sure which way it is travelling but not yet arrived after 15 hours.

Bill

Gurnet
1st August 2011, 17:02
Good afternoon,
My reply comes late, but I join the forum only today.
I was 3rd mate of the French cargo-ship Circea at the time of the accident. It was around 2:37/2:40 AM this 30-3-1973, being off duty, I was sleeping.
Of course I woke up instantaneously when the clash occurred, when opening my portholes facing forward, I only saw a great ball of fire and then rushed up to the bridge, needless to say that it was a nightmare and a mess. The Circea got jammed until the walkway, the middle of the Eatsgate, and the burning jet fuel spilled on our port an starboard. We managed to withdrew and put out the fire on the forecastle and hold n°1. Because of the huge blaze we thought they were already all dead on board the Eastgate and it was with a great great surprise and relief that we saw a first lifeboat, then another one. Very sadly we understood later on that 3 people were missing. We launched a lifeboat ourselves and tried as much as possible to assist.

Almost 40 years after the accident, I still have a quite good recollection of what happened inasmuch that I drafted at the time a kind of technical report in my own words (I was 24) for my father who was a shipowner in Monaco - thus able to understand the details of the story - with many press local clippings, a map and so on. Later on, I also managed to have a copy of the report of the HKG Marine Court of 1974.

We were the ship to blame, no doubt about that. Not only were we running too fast (The Master was in hurry to reach Keelung asap, dockers having already being ordered… Yes, back in 1973, this behavior already prevailed !), but (i) we most probably cut the incoming traffic lane before the recommended way point and (ii) unfortunately, there were fog patches, we were in clear weather while the Eastgate was in a fog patch and this caused delay in understanding the situation (bearing in mind that radars in those days had nothing to see with those of 2011).

Capt Albos died some few years after. The CMCR (Compagnie Maritime des Chargeurs Réunis - aka Cognac Line because of the 5 red stars in the funnel) which was on of the three major French shipping lines with Cie Générale Transatlantique and Messageries Maritimes has vanished, missing the turn of containers.

I have a bunch of news clippings in english (South China Morning Post, China Mail, Star, Hong Kong Standard) available which can be photocopied an sent.

The report from the HKG Marine Court can be downloaded following this link :
http://library.hku.hk/record=b1233841

Another story and a photo about the Eastgate is here :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33402600@N02/3580066498/

Gurnet.

PS : Please excuse my english, I am only a froggy…

Hi,
I am the grandaughter of Captain Price who was Eastgates master at the time of the collision in Hong Kong 1973. Unfortunately, he passed away in 1995 when I was 6 yrs old. My aunty remembers hearing about the collision on the radio and also recalls seeing photos on the front of the Argus, a local newspaper from the area where they lived. I am very interested in finding out more about the incident, I have found one picture of the Eastgate sometime before the collision on the internet. If anyone has any other links to photos or newspaper archives they would be appreciated.
Thanks, Jo

gordonw
8th August 2011, 11:50
Hi Thats A Blast From The Past Who Remembers This Old Company Any Ships Names And Photos Sam2182sw

I left the R.N. in1966 and joined the Eastgate in1967(?),I thought slavery was outlawed in the 1800s,the food and accomadation was terrible,and I was a submariner.Turnbull Scott seemed to have just the bare minimum of interest in their crews.
When we paid off in Hong Kong i was asked if I would like to do a mates course.They had to be joking.

the_phil
5th September 2011, 23:20
I am rewriting the history of all the ships owned and managed by Turnbull Scott from 1872 to 1991. If anyone has any photos, of ships owned and managed by TS, and would like them to be published in my book, please contact me via e mail and ships nostalgia. Best Regards to All John Bateson Turnbull Scott 1961-1983

Hi, how's that book coming on? If you're still interested in photos - my dad (C/E Roger Bedson) took a load from his time on the Sandgate. I have them in my possession along with all sorts of other bits and bobs such as training records of his, and identity cards etc.

Would love something of his to be involved (as I'm sure he would too) or if you'd just like to see them?.....

Roger stayed in Jamaica where he took a post at a Maratime college before a short battle with cancer took him in 2003.

All the best.
Phil

J.Bateson
7th September 2011, 11:37
Hi Phil, Have just sent you an e mail via ships nostalgia. Best Regards John

seanmac
9th October 2011, 12:04
Good afternoon,
My reply comes late, but I join the forum only today.
I was 3rd mate of the French cargo-ship Circea at the time of the accident. It was around 2:37/2:40 AM this 30-3-1973, being off duty, I was sleeping.
Of course I woke up instantaneously when the clash occurred, when opening my portholes facing forward, I only saw a great ball of fire and then rushed up to the bridge, needless to say that it was a nightmare and a mess. The Circea got jammed until the walkway, the middle of the Eatsgate, and the burning jet fuel spilled on our port an starboard. We managed to withdrew and put out the fire on the forecastle and hold n°1. Because of the huge blaze we thought they were already all dead on board the Eastgate and it was with a great great surprise and relief that we saw a first lifeboat, then another one. Very sadly we understood later on that 3 people were missing. We launched a lifeboat ourselves and tried as much as possible to assist.

Almost 40 years after the accident, I still have a quite good recollection of what happened inasmuch that I drafted at the time a kind of technical report in my own words (I was 24) for my father who was a shipowner in Monaco - thus able to understand the details of the story - with many press local clippings, a map and so on. Later on, I also managed to have a copy of the report of the HKG Marine Court of 1974.

We were the ship to blame, no doubt about that. Not only were we running too fast (The Master was in hurry to reach Keelung asap, dockers having already being ordered… Yes, back in 1973, this behavior already prevailed !), but (i) we most probably cut the incoming traffic lane before the recommended way point and (ii) unfortunately, there were fog patches, we were in clear weather while the Eastgate was in a fog patch and this caused delay in understanding the situation (bearing in mind that radars in those days had nothing to see with those of 2011).

Capt Albos died some few years after. The CMCR (Compagnie Maritime des Chargeurs Réunis - aka Cognac Line because of the 5 red stars in the funnel) which was on of the three major French shipping lines with Cie Générale Transatlantique and Messageries Maritimes has vanished, missing the turn of containers.

I have a bunch of news clippings in english (South China Morning Post, China Mail, Star, Hong Kong Standard) available which can be photocopied an sent.

The report from the HKG Marine Court can be downloaded following this link :
http://library.hku.hk/record=b1233841

Another story and a photo about the Eastgate is here :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33402600@N02/3580066498/

Gurnet.

PS : Please excuse my english, I am only a froggy…

Hi Gurnet,Thanks for your post.My Father lost his life that night on the Eastgate

alan ward
12th October 2011, 15:43
It is so far back in the past that I am sure that no-one on here will remember.However my Dad Ted Ward served his time with TS together with his friedn Eric Dennis serving the entire time on the Empire Summer later Stonegate(I believe)

FatherOf2
18th October 2011, 15:17
Just seen some of the posts regarding Turnbull Scott. Some of the people mentioned are remembered and to those that remember me I wish you all well. I spent about 3 years with Turnbulls and remember the people from those at head office right down through the ranks as being mainly great characters without pretentiousness.

I would like to agree with many of the remarks about Captain Price. He was a larger than life character who is fondly remembered. I was a young second mate when I sailed with him on the Stonegate in 1977 and the Trongate in 1979. His granddaughter should know he was a good, fair captain who was larger than life in personality as well as stature.

I was on board the Trongate when Captain Ellerby passed away ashore in Buenos Aires. I will send his son an email about this as he requested information, if I can work out how. On the night that he passed away the ship dragged anchor in a very crowded River Plate anchorage. The mate called me to the bridge and the third mate went forward to heave in the anchor. I remember we spent some time debating how best to resolve the situation as there was very little room to safely anchor in very poor holding ground. It was one of those occasions where it was pilotage by committee! We both made light of it all and joked about how the superintendent would react if he knew what we were doing to his ship. We weren't aware at this time of the Captain's passing.

Ref the enquiry regarding Nick White. I was at school with him and recall reading about him being a skipper with a deep sea towage company in the 80s I think. Since then I don't recall hearing of him.

Danny Harris

Nick1958
18th October 2011, 18:50
Just to say thanks to Danny for figuring out how to send me a message about my dad. Really appreciated. Nick.

gremlin
18th January 2012, 22:53
Hi. Graham Devlin here. I was with TS from the end of '75 to the middle of '86, when I left the Sycee and thus the MN for good. It's nice to see the RHB glee club is still going strong. I have fond memories of sailing with most of you. I have loads of pictures of those days, but most are slides, until I can find a mechanism for converting them... Anyone interested?(Gleam)

Landi
20th January 2012, 17:30
Hi. Graham Devlin here. I was with TS from the end of '75 to the middle of '86, when I left the Sycee and thus the MN for good. It's nice to see the RHB glee club is still going strong. I have fond memories of sailing with most of you. I have loads of pictures of those days, but most are slides, until I can find a mechanism for converting them... Anyone interested?(Gleam)

Hi Graham,

Nice one, only sailing fun sailing with "most of us".

Pete C Jnr, Stevie D, Phil Pannet, Paul Myers, Dave Estelle and me still in the area, Ian Odd recently made a pilgrimage and Frank Graham has been in the past. John Bateson is writing a TS ship history so a few of us still about and would be interested in your photos if you can get them transferred.

All the best,

Ian Goodall.

gremlin
21st January 2012, 00:24
Hi Ian

Gosh, so nice to get a friendly reply... You were more of a help to me and Brian D. on our cadet trip on the Stonecrusher than you probably realise. A lifetime ago. Peter C. jun. and Steve D. were also fab to sail with. Sorry about my 'most of you' line - it's all such a long time ago (and most of it was great) . I really miss the ships, and I'm really jealous when work colleagues get sent to vessels to work on them. Halcyon days. Sigh...(Gleam)

gremlin
7th February 2012, 12:26
[
QUOTE=Landi;568510]Hi Graham,

Nice one, only sailing fun sailing with "most of us".

Pete C Jnr, Stevie D, Phil Pannet, Paul Myers, Dave Estelle and me still in the area, Ian Odd recently made a pilgrimage and Frank Graham has been in the past. John Bateson is writing a TS ship history so a few of us still about and would be interested in your photos if you can get them transferred.

All the best,

Ian Goodall.[/QUOTE]

Hi Ian

I'm picking up a slide/jpg converter at the weekend. Hopefully I can digitize some half decent photos.

All the best.

Graham D.

Landi
7th February 2012, 22:14
Hi Graham,

Did you get a email from me on your site email?

Ian

Les Tobbell
12th February 2012, 10:27
[
QUOTE=Landi;568510]Hi Graham,

Nice one, only sailing fun sailing with "most of us".

Pete C Jnr, Stevie D, Phil Pannet, Paul Myers, Dave Estelle and me still in the area, Ian Odd recently made a pilgrimage and Frank Graham has been in the past. John Bateson is writing a TS ship history so a few of us still about and would be interested in your photos if you can get them transferred.

All the best,

Ian Goodall.

Hi Ian

I'm picking up a slide/jpg converter at the weekend. Hopefully I can digitize some half decent photos.

All the best.

Graham D.[/QUOTE]

Les Tobbell
12th February 2012, 10:40
Hi,
I have just come across this website and read through the history trail of TS. I joined TS in July 1968 as a Cadet Engineer and rose rapidly to 2nd Engineer (1973) and to Chief Engineer and left TS in 1982. Lots of good memories but also not so good, I remember all those Captain's mentioned with some amusing incident, such as Peter Cooper, "Chief you mentioned that you wanted to change a piston, tomorrow looks to be a good day to do that while I'll go fishing."
The Mirrlees engine mentioned, I remember in 1982 in the Atlantic in a force 9 having a major engine failure, resulting in damaging the cam followers and cylinder head, after changing the cylinder head we resuming the trip on five cylinders.
Sad to hear so many of the family of the TS sailing community have passed away.

gremlin
12th February 2012, 12:39
Hi,
I have just come across this website and read through the history trail of TS. I joined TS in July 1968 as a Cadet Engineer and rose rapidly to 2nd Engineer (1973) and to Chief Engineer and left TS in 1982. Lots of good memories but also not so good, I remember all those Captain's mentioned with some amusing incident, such as Peter Cooper, "Chief you mentioned that you wanted to change a piston, tomorrow looks to be a good day to do that while I'll go fishing."
The Mirrlees engine mentioned, I remember in 1982 in the Atlantic in a force 9 having a major engine failure, resulting in damaging the cam followers and cylinder head, after changing the cylinder head we resuming the trip on five cylinders.
Sad to hear so many of the family of the TS sailing community have passed away.

Hi Les

Hardly surprising how many posts relate to those dreadful Mirrllees engines on the 'S' boats. We changed a camshaft on the Southgate in '78 in Durban after crossing the pond from the Straits of Magellan on 7 legs. We frequently blacked out as the vee belts for the shaft genny would explode due to overheating (it was vitually impossible to correctly align the multiple pulley arrangement). On one of those ships the ME used to trip out on overspeed whenever the sparky transmitted on 8 Megs (allegedly - possibly apocryphal). Their gennys weren't much better...

Happy days

Gremlin

Landi
13th February 2012, 01:10
Hi Les

On one of those ships the ME used to trip out on overspeed whenever the sparky transmitted on 8 Megs (allegedly - possibly apocryphal). Their gennys weren't much better...

Happy days

Gremlin


It was true, I was there, Sandgate first trip, found when in the bar one night the Sparky said why do you always blackout when I am transmitting!

Traced to the bridge contol and radio cables being too close together.

And what about the deck cranes, hydraulic oil, diesel and saw dust what a mixture.

Hi Les, welcome onboard, nice to see you have signed on.

Ian

Tony Morris
13th February 2012, 09:34
Hi. Graham Devlin here. I was with TS from the end of '75 to the middle of '86, when I left the Sycee and thus the MN for good. It's nice to see the RHB glee club is still going strong. I have fond memories of sailing with most of you. I have loads of pictures of those days, but most are slides, until I can find a mechanism for converting them... Anyone interested?(Gleam)

Hi Graham,

Nice to see your name crop up, it's a long time since our days on the Marilock.

All the best,

Tony[=P]

gremlin
13th February 2012, 13:05
Hi Graham,

Nice to see your name crop up, it's a long time since our days on the Marilock.

All the best,

Tony[=P]

Hi Tony

How are you? Fine I hope. So many memories of our trips on the Panamaxes. I'll see what pictures I can dig out.

Good to hear from you.

Best wishes

Graham (gremlin)

Tony Morris
15th February 2012, 11:09
Hi Tony

How are you? Fine I hope. So many memories of our trips on the Panamaxes. I'll see what pictures I can dig out.

Good to hear from you.

Best wishes

Graham (gremlin)

Hi Again Graham,

I am fat and fit but still having to go to sea to finance the local watering holes while on leave. I see that you swallowed the anchor, hope you are enjoying life.

I look forward to seeing the pictures.

All the best,

Tony

vela
18th February 2012, 13:33
Hi Gurnet,Thanks for your post.My Father lost his life that night on the Eastgate

Thanks for the other side of the story Gurnet.
Barry Scott - 2nd Mate - on the bridge with Capt. Price that morning.

Erimus
20th February 2012, 17:03
Interesting read this thread.......my first day working in the Tees for BISC(Ore)Ltd...(following my departure from the Constantine Group), was onboard the Baxtergate for a full Articles change this was in 1960 and I think the Master was Captain Storm from Whitby,,in fact I think that Redgate,Baxtergate & Waynegate were all Whitby Masters.

geoff

kevin mcavoy
6th March 2012, 19:43
hi i am kevin,i sailed in holland and hyde park,i loved every minute of the twoyrs.ihave worked with a lot of companies/blue star/shaw savill/P@O liners alot more of ships including the countries ft everard,i always seemed to get thewee blackies thankyou kevin ps i sailed as ab/bosun/its hard to come ashore to retire. i went to sea at 15 to63 notbad thanks

Ed.
7th March 2012, 20:30
Hi Les

Hardly surprising how many posts relate to those dreadful Mirrllees engines on the 'S' boats. We changed a camshaft on the Southgate in '78 in Durban after crossing the pond from the Straits of Magellan on 7 legs. We frequently blacked out as the vee belts for the shaft genny would explode due to overheating (it was vitually impossible to correctly align the multiple pulley arrangement). On one of those ships the ME used to trip out on overspeed whenever the sparky transmitted on 8 Megs (allegedly - possibly apocryphal). Their gennys weren't much better...

Happy days

Gremlin

I think I was there. May/June 78. Southgate called first at Cape Town then did the repair at Durban. Captain Trozska - cant remember the other ships staff, unfortunately memory is becoming seriously defective.
Nearly all the problems with those engines were associated with the reversing gear/camshaft area. As unidirectional they might have been OK.
My worst memory of the appalling Moelven cranes is also on Southgate. Dec. 76. South Nelson on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick. Loading pit props in appaling weather with every possibility of being frozen in for the winter, ice getting thicker and swing bridge downriver becoming unreliable. Whenever the blizzards became too bad for the stevedores to work, then we were up on the gantrys trying to repair those horrible transverse hose carriers.
I wonder if anyone reading this was there.
An engineer from Holland also attended to fix the shaft alternator control system.
Eddie Green

Jack Milligan
5th August 2012, 11:57
Remember You & Roy Fairbairn Joining The Stonegate In Lagos As Cadets

Regards
Jack Milligan

Landi
19th August 2012, 14:17
Remember You & Roy Fairbairn Joining The Stonegate In Lagos As Cadets

Regards
Jack Milligan

Hi Jack,

A long time time ago..............34 years, how time flys when your having fun, the Stonegate, what an engineering triumph, and a great place to learn.

I am still at sea, Chief with BP on gas boats, what about you, did you ever see Tom Black again, I sailed with Jimmy on the Trongate on his last trip when they did away with dispensations.

All the best,

Ian

Roebuck
11th November 2012, 14:35
It is strange reading the threads relating to Turnbull Scott as my dad was one of the Captains mentioned. Many of the names ring bells in my memory from when I was young, such as Captains Price and Richardson, as well as some of those based at the head office.

My dad died 1st October 1978 (a liver complaint not unknown amongst many who go to sea!), thirty years ago on board ship (someone has already mentioned it was the Trongate) at Buenos Aires. My mum Shiela Ellerby travelled on many voyages with him and passed away in 2000 - she held very happy memories of some of the voyages she went on, and the people she met. I sailed on one voyage in about 1975 from Scotland to France and then North Africa, before coming back to the UK.

It has been a good reminder of the dynamics that are created in any relatively small community of people when I read the threads.

I remember meeting the wife and daughters of a Chief Engineer who lived in the Wirral and I wonder if anyone recalls his name. Also there were officers on the voyage I went on, one of whom had a wife who befriended me (she was not english as I recall) - but again I cannot remember their names. Two cadets were also on the voyage and I think we had a very late night in Bordeaux which resulted in missing the tide - which did not go down well as anyone who knew my dad can imagine.

If anyone remembers Captain Ted Ellerby, I would appreciate any memories - and recognise they may may be mixed...but that is what makes a character and a fuller picture of the person.

Nick

Hi Nick
I joined the Trongate with your father off South africa where we went after that not quite sure of the details now but iwas the radio officer on board when your dad passed away. I remember the funeral as all the officers went, i remember that we all stood around the coffin and we had our photo taken around the coffin. I also got the job of packing your fathers personal effects and that it when i discovered the he was a Freemason and at that time and still am one myself. It was a pity that i found out after his passing.
Hope you find the above interesting. Your dad was a fine man one of the best i served under
Regards
John

Ian Odd
17th November 2012, 17:30
Hello Nick,
I was C/O on the Narya, or was it the Vilya?, when you sailed from Scotland to France with your parents. I recall shooting the breeze with you on watch one night. I think you were on the bridge to well past midnight as far as I can recall. Your presence certainly made an otherwise boring watch pass quickly. I last sailed with your father in 1977 on the Sandgate. My wife was with me at the time. We arrived back in the UK in 1977 and had to anchor off Southend and thus miss the Silver Jubilee. I think your Dad signed off with ill health when we finally docked up[ the river.
Best wishes
Ian Odd

Landi
3rd December 2012, 12:12
RIP Frank, a true gentleman, a good mate and a fine engineer.

Ian

Tony Morris
3rd December 2012, 12:53
RIP Frank, a true gentleman, a good mate and a fine engineer.

Ian

I relieved Frank a number of times on the cement carrier "Helvetia", when we worked for Transocean Shipmanagement, as you say a fine engineer and a sad loss.

Tony

gremlin
3rd December 2012, 15:27
So sorry to hear the news. Loved his support and sense of humour. A true gent.

Ed.
4th December 2012, 17:04
RIP Frank, a true gentleman, a good mate and a fine engineer.

Ian

Sad news indeed. I knew and worked with Frank for many years. We struggled through many difficult repair jobs and had some good fun as well. My last job with Turnbulls was Drydocking of Stainless Spray in Singapore, March 1988. As far as I remember Ian Odd was Captain and Frank C.E. They were often together, made a good team.
None like him!
Eddie Green

Landi
12th December 2012, 12:30
Hi,

To all those who knew Frank, I understand that his funeral was on Monday and he had a good send off with his family, many friends and those of his ship mates who were able to attend. It was in his own style, and those of you who sailed with him will know that would be interesting.

For a Steam Queen he was a hell of an Engineer and is probably up their right now redesigning a Doxford, planning an upgrade to Big H, or discussing the merits of RO plants with all who will listen, beer in one hand the makings of a fag spread around his lap.

Cheers mate,

Ian

Essjay
19th December 2012, 10:54
I did the maiden voyage of a ship. named Baxtergate, sailed from Amsterdam, in the eary 60's. Is it the same company, brain needs an upgrade!!!
:confused:

Chief Graham
30th December 2012, 21:05
As Ian posted on 3rd December my Dad had passed away peacefully, in the early hours, after being ill for some time.
Until then, when Ian informed us, we were unaware of this website. As I am sure some of you will be aware, my Dad and IT were not the best of friends-so very much doubt that had be known of its existence he would have been a frequent visitor. Dad was the one finger style typer!!
My Mum (Pam), my brother (Alex) and I have been some what overwhelmed by the messages of condolences, and tributes to Dad from this site, and subsequent emails prompted from here, from around the world.
Although we often called Dad Victor (as in Victor Meldrew) he had become grumpy in his old age- he still had that patience about him when explaining things. Something his 12 year old granddaughter is going to miss when she has maths homework she needs help with!

Kind regards

Candy

ixion
23rd January 2013, 18:00
Saltersgate. Does anyone have any recollection of the Saltersgate being laid up in the River Blackwater for some time assumedsometime in the 1970s or early 1980s ?

Ed.
24th January 2013, 19:21
Saltersgate. Does anyone have any recollection of the Saltersgate being laid up in the River Blackwater for some time assumedsometime in the 1970s or early 1980s ?

I visited the Southgate and Saltersgate laid up in The River Fal near King Harry Ferry, on 15/16 June 1982. These were the Appledore Built ships. You might be thinking of the earlier, smaller, Dutch Built Saltersgate. We did have ships laid up in The Blackwater but I can not remember when.
Ed.

Ed.
24th January 2013, 21:00
Saltersgate. Does anyone have any recollection of the Saltersgate being laid up in the River Blackwater for some time assumedsometime in the 1970s or early 1980s ?

Found it!
Unfortunately I did not keep a journal in those days - but still have all my old expenses books. Under the heading Saltersgate, I see that on 28th/29th July 1975 I drove from Farnborough to West Mersea, Colchester and back. 233 miles. £4.42 for Hotel and 75p for breakfast. (Peter Dean was red hot on the expenses) The only reason for this would have been to visit the Saltersgate in River Blackwater.
She must have come out of Layup soon after because my next visit was at Castelon (Near Valencia) 3rd Nov 75. when we changed Main Engine Camshaft.
This was the Dutch Built Saltersgate. MAK engine. Capt McLean at the time of this visit.
Ed.
What a waste of time, searching old expense books for trivia. Get a life!!

Landi
26th January 2013, 01:32
75p for breakfast, those were the days!

I was going to say I was on the Southgate while she was laid up on the Fal. Cream teas, and shopping trips up the river, very pleasent, we had to do a unit for the Turkish buyers, but they never turned up to inspect it. Peter Findley as Chief and Pete Cooper 2nd Mate.

Ian

Ed.
26th January 2013, 19:38
75p for breakfast, those were the days!

I was going to say I was on the Southgate while she was laid up on the Fal. Cream teas, and shopping trips up the river, very pleasent, we had to do a unit for the Turkish buyers, but they never turned up to inspect it. Peter Findley as Chief and Pete Cooper 2nd Mate.

Ian
I seem to remember that the Southgate was sold to Fishers of Barrow - is that correct.
The Saltersgate went in Nov. 82 to Ishmael Robertson of Kingston, Jamaica. Renamed Herminia. New Owners had big problems keeping the Mirlees main Engine running. I visited in Dec 83 and did the passage from Jamaica to Miami. Later Chief Engineer Roger Bedson joined the ship on loan and eventualy ended up working for them (Coldport) as Superintendent.
Cant remember what happened to the Sandgate.
Ed.

Tynesider
26th January 2013, 22:19
Wasn't the SANDGATE sold to Fishers and renamed ATLANTIC FISHER ?

Landi
27th January 2013, 17:27
Correct Sandgate went to Fishers, I paid off her in Manchester, right up the top of the Ship Canal in Eccles just before she was sold, she took a couple of TS guys with her, was it Howard ? a Captain and a 2nd mate. (names all gone in the mists of time)

Southgate eventually did go to the Turks. I have a photo of her laid up on the Fal, god they were small ships to go worldwide trading on!

Ian

ixion
27th January 2013, 18:11
Many thanks for your reply Ed re the Saltersgate and if you or colleagues recall any others that were laid up here in the River Blackwater it would be helpful for a local history archive I am helping with. See http://www.merseamuseum.org.uk/mmshipping.php

Lynne Caffyn
27th January 2013, 23:51
I have just come across this site while looking for references to some of the ships i sailed on. I joined Turnbull's in 1977 as a cadet and left in 1983 as 2nd mate.

As well as Captain Price I remember Captains Thorne and Cooper very well. They were both fine Captains who disliked each other in equal measure. Captain Thorn could be harsh and some of the stories were the stuff of legend. I liked him a lot and would be interested if anyone has any news of him. He knew the Stonegate like the back of his hand and woe betide cadets who did not pass muster on his quite frequent tests. Choice epithets would flow poetically and loudly. He had a vague notion once of setting up a restaurant with Terry Deighton. Terry told me the gist of it was that he (Terry) would do the work while Ken 'mingled' with the guests. Now there's an image. Terry was a super bloke. We were once travelling in a bus somewhere. There was a fair crowd of us including someone's wife and a cadet using a lot of particulary fould language. Someone asked Terry to stop the cadet behaving in such a manner which Terry duly did with clip round the ear and a "****ing pack it in".

I am in touch with Captain Coopers son Peter who did his cadetship a little before me. Through him I have bits of news of Paul Myers, now a Master with Stolt Line, and Steve Donkersley, now a Chief Officer with RFA. Pete and I have occasionally made plans to meet up but have never quite made it.

I am in close contact with Mike Bailey who like me works in IT. We meet up a couple of times a year and reminisce with vigour. I am sure there will be a few people who remember Paddy Shrimpton. He is domiciled American (I think one of his parents was American but I'm not certain), is still mad keen on Rugby and is head of safety with Chevron tankers.

I also remember Captain Troczska a big bear of a man whose wish was to have been in the Polish paratroop regiment in the war. He railed bitterly aganst those authorities who put him in the Merchant Navy. He did not forgive the Germans for what they did to Poland and discussing things German were best avoided. He was another excellent Captain. His wife sailed part of the trip with him and she was as small as he was huge, or maybe it was just relitive and time is confusing my memory. They clearly adored each other. The other thing I particularly remember about him was his fondness for John Steinbeck novels.

On the subject of Poland didn't Captain Price sail in the war on Polish ships. He certainly liked the Poles a lot and was still angered by the way the Allies had treated them.

I sailed quite a lot with Captain Odd who was made Master at a very young age. He was great. Helpful, demanding in a balanced way and good fun.

On the engineering side I remember Chief Engineer Frank Graham particulaly well. We used to play cribbage most evenings. I used to win (that's my story anyway) and every night he would tell me how rubbish I was. Fantastic. He was another great character and a very nice man, though it did take me the best part of my first trip with him to get used to him.

I sailed on the Skeldergate several times both as Skeldergate and Cabo Azul. In fact the Skeldergate was my last trip which I rounded off with a certain symmetry when I threw the heaving line lock stock and barrel into the water. A rather dry witted dock worker asked me deadpan if I was supposed to do that. I had done exactly the same thing about seven years earlier on my first trip, the Saltersgate. I'd like to think that I did a few things correctly in the years betwen.

Apart from the Skeldergate and Saltersgate I sailed on the Southgate, the Stonegate, the Trongate and Marilock.

If anyone has any news of those I mentioned above or indeed anyone else who was in Turnbull's around that time I would be really interested. It might be through the rose tinted glasses of time lapsed but I had a great few years in Turnbull's and met some splendid people and many true characters.

Andrew.

Hi Andrew,
Back in 1979 (April) The Trongate came to Wallaroo, captain was Peter Cooper. He came to our Mission as did others including Willy (C/O) and Brian Donaldson (sparky). Have photos of those 3 on board ship here. I see you're in touch with Capt Cooper's son. If you don't mind, and next time you're in touch can you say Lynne from Wallaroo Mish says Hi. I have really enjoyed reading your entry.
Lynne

gremlin
28th January 2013, 12:41
Correct Sandgate went to Fishers, I paid off her in Manchester, right up the top of the Ship Canal in Eccles just before she was sold, she took a couple of TS guys with her, was it Howard ? a Captain and a 2nd mate. (names all gone in the mists of time)

Southgate eventually did go to the Turks. I have a photo of her laid up on the Fal, god they were small ships to go worldwide trading on!

Ian

Brian Davies went to Fisher's and had at least one trip on the Atlantic Fisher, as I recall (I think this was his last seafaring experience). Don't think it travelled very far under Fisher's...
(Pint)

STORM
10th February 2013, 14:32
Interesting read this thread.......my first day working in the Tees for BISC(Ore)Ltd...(following my departure from the Constantine Group), was onboard the Baxtergate for a full Articles change this was in 1960 and I think the Master was Captain Storm from Whitby,,in fact I think that Redgate,Baxtergate & Waynegate were all Whitby Masters.

geoff

I'm fairly certain that the 'Captain Storm' you met would have been either my grandfather Raymond Storm or his brother, Richard Storm. Both born and brought up in Robin Hood's Bay.

STORM
10th February 2013, 14:42
Hi Andrew,
Back in 1979 (April) The Trongate came to Wallaroo, captain was Peter Cooper. He came to our Mission as did others including Willy (C/O) and Brian Donaldson (sparky). Have photos of those 3 on board ship here. I see you're in touch with Capt Cooper's son. If you don't mind, and next time you're in touch can you say Lynne from Wallaroo Mish says Hi. I have really enjoyed reading your entry.
Lynne

Hi Lynne, I've just emailed your note on to Peter. Regds, Andy.

STORM
10th February 2013, 14:53
As Ian posted on 3rd December my Dad had passed away peacefully, in the early hours, after being ill for some time.
Until then, when Ian informed us, we were unaware of this website. As I am sure some of you will be aware, my Dad and IT were not the best of friends-so very much doubt that had be known of its existence he would have been a frequent visitor. Dad was the one finger style typer!!
My Mum (Pam), my brother (Alex) and I have been some what overwhelmed by the messages of condolences, and tributes to Dad from this site, and subsequent emails prompted from here, from around the world.
Although we often called Dad Victor (as in Victor Meldrew) he had become grumpy in his old age- he still had that patience about him when explaining things. Something his 12 year old granddaughter is going to miss when she has maths homework she needs help with!

Kind regards

Candy


I haven't been on this site for quite a while and am very sorry to hear of your father's passing. I sailed with him a number of times on the Skeldergate and remember you and your brother visiting the ship with your mother. He was a great personality and a real character. Although it's 30 years this year since I left the sea he's one of the one's I won't forget - all for the right reasons. Please pass on my rather late condolences to your mother and brother. Andy Storm.

Ed.
12th April 2013, 20:05
The memories of Frank Graham and the recent death of Mrs Thatcher with all the talk of The Falklands makes me think of the strange voyage of The Skeldergate. Small Stainless Steel Chemical tanker. Did anyone reading this make the voyage to Argentina.
Shortly after the end of the Falklands conflict the Skeldergate, unbelievably, was chartered to an Argentine Company to trade on the Argentine coast. She drydocked in Flushing in January 1983. Captain Odd Master and her name was changed to Cabo Azul. I suppose she must have changed to Argentine registration, I can not remember, but the evening before the arrival of the ship in Flushing (Vlissengen) My Wife and I had dinner with Mr Clarich of the Argentine DTI. Poor chap was so nervous, I think he thought we were going to eat him.
What a voyage for a ship of that size - she traded for six months on the Argentine coast, with all TS regular Officers and Crew. Please reply if any of you read this.
The next record I have of this ship was when I visited at Immingham 31st Oct 83, then again at Avonmouth 11 Jan 84. Still named Cabo Azul.
The story then becomes even more strange because after The Argies the vessel was now chartered by The MOD. In Jan 1984 dry-docked at Wear Dockyard, Sunderland, name reverted to Skeldergate and we fitted two large Reverse Osmosis units in the top of the pump room. She steamed all the way back South to the Falklands and for the next year trundled around dispensing Fresh Water to other vessels.
At that time we were operating Six Month trips so many of our men flew on Military flights between Brize Norton and Stanley.
I do hope this jogs a few memories.

Robin J Smith
27th July 2013, 23:21
I Sailed as 3/E on the "Marilock" (panamax bulk carrier) twice between Oct 82 and Feb 84, Turnbulls were managing her and another ship (Sealock I think) for Wheelock Marden - Hong Kong. Anyone know what happened to these ships?

Hi Tony,
The other boat was indeed the Sealock. In my office, I have a great photo of her sailing into Sydney after the guarantee dry dock (I will scan it and post it later). I sailed as first trip 4E in 1984 with Pete Roberts as 3E (4E ex Marilock) did you sail with him? I stayed in touch with Pete for a long time but havent seen him for a few years now. I also sailed with Bob Babington (Chief) (also ex Marilock) on the Sealock - Great bloke. Does anyone know where he is now?
The Sealock was scrapped in 2012 under the Name Universal Challenger. Have a look at this link http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?IMO=8108597

Robin

Sonofasailor
22nd November 2013, 01:47
My dad was I think the last chief super based out of the Farnborough office, I was regularly in abbot house as a kid waiting for my dad to pick up weekend telex messages. 75- 82. I'm sure I was on the Skeldergate as a guest of the captain a few times while it was loading and my dad was working.

I remember very few names, Peter Green.. My dad Keith Huntley.
I was hunting around for pictures of ships of this line as an unusual birthday gift and came across this site.. Very interesting.

Landi
23rd November 2013, 08:13
My dad was I think the last chief super based out of the Farnborough office, I was regularly in abbot house as a kid waiting for my dad to pick up weekend telex messages. 75- 82. I'm sure I was on the Skeldergate as a guest of the captain a few times while it was loading and my dad was working.

I remember very few names, Peter Green.. My dad Keith Huntley.
I was hunting around for pictures of ships of this line as an unusual birthday gift and came across this site.. Very interesting.

Hi,

I have a few photos, which ships are you looking for?

Ian

tiachapman
23rd November 2013, 08:32
joined the baxtergate in tees 1956 lightship pepel iron ore to Glasgow SHE was held together by cement boxes of which i made quite a few .done 4 months on her

alan ward
23rd November 2013, 12:46
Eric Dennis,Peter Verani,Ernest Ward anyone out there who remembers,sailed with or even knows any of these men who were all Apprentices on the Empire Summer/Stonegate 1942-45?

roger303
5th March 2014, 16:47
Hello gents - Roger Martin here. I have just found and joined the site.
I was a Deck Apprentice with TS 1972 to 1974 and served on Eastgate, Regents Park and Vilya before changing careers and joining the Royal Marines.
I was very sad to read of Captain Price's death - he was my first skipper on the Eastgate and he was a gentleman.
I left her whilst she was in dry dock in Singapore and it was shortly afterwards when she was struck whilst at anchor in Hong Kong.
I served on the Vilya, my last ship, for over a year and can only remember the name of the second engineer - Oscar Janovski (changed to Barrington before we went to Archangel, in Russia).
I am struggling to find anything at all about the Vilya and often wondered what happened to her.
Anyone out there I may remember/remember me?

roger303
5th March 2014, 18:50
I remember being alongside a Turnbull Scott ship in Archangel (about 1972) -sorry can't remember the name, but she was probably loading sawn timber and a regular visitor to the port. One day I was listening to the World Service News and it turned out that the British Government had just kicked out 106 Russian spies (think they'd been employed in Lada dealerships all over the country). The Belgian government kicked out about another 50.

Early in the evening the mission bus arrived to take ships' crews to the Interclub in town. The bus was packed and there were a couple of "hostesses" from the club on board. A young man from the Turnbull Scott ship, who turned out to be the Chief Engineer, was quite familiar with the girls and was chatting with them. He told them that two of the ship's seamen had had their shorepasses revoked because they'd returned on board after midnight. One of the hostesses said: "Their is nothing to do in Archangel after midnight, they must have been up to no good!" The Chief replied: "Well, in retaliation for this, my government has just expelled 106 of your diplomats!"

His snappy answer brought the house down, except for the hostesses who said: "Your radio lies."

John T.

Hi John.
She would have been the Vilya most probably. I did the Archangel/Shoreham timber run on her in 1972/3, as a deck cadet.
I remember the seamans' club well. They were pretty girls who spoke perfect English and who were happy to give away expensive communist literature!
Best wishes
Roger