Clan Line

Jim S
16th February 2006, 20:26
What has happened to the Scottish Navy? Your contributions pale into insignificance compared to Brocklebanks for instance, yet you had many more ships.

I seem to remember an old saying that went something like:-
"The Officers (and Gentlemen) of P&O,
The Men of B.I
And those Bastards in Clan Line"

Norman Trewren
16th February 2006, 20:39
I recall the same ditty - with second and third lines reversed!!

Norman (ex Clan)

Banni
17th February 2006, 20:52
i agree, there must be somebody out there that can share a picture or story from the scottish navy. a while ago i posted a photo of a fire on the balmoral Universal (ex Clan) surely there are old photos that we could share or even extracts from the Clansman (I still have one or two of these kicking about)

danube4
17th February 2006, 21:32
Banni. What clan line ships do you want to see, I have ten good pics pre 60s if interested. Barney'

Rhiw.com
18th February 2006, 09:54
i agree, there must be somebody out there that can share a picture or story from the scottish navy. a while ago i posted a photo of a fire on the balmoral Universal (ex Clan) surely there are old photos that we could share or even extracts from the Clansman (I still have one or two of these kicking about)
Recently I was given over 400 postcards of British cargo ships of the 50's and 60's, a shoe box full in fact!!! Amongst them were 16 photos of Clan Boats. You are welcome to down load them if you like. Regards Tony.
http://www.rhiw.com/y_mor/ships_photos_03/clan_line/clan_01.htm (Thumb)

ruud
18th February 2006, 10:03
Recently I was given over 400 postcards of British cargo ships of the 50's and 60's, a shoe box full in fact!!! Amongst them were 16 photos of Clan Boats. You are welcome to down load them if you like. Regards Tony.
http://www.rhiw.com/y_mor/ships_photos_03/clan_line/clan_01.htm (Thumb)Ahoy Tony,
Thanks for these lovely piccies, you lucky b*******d(Thumb) I'm waiting for the
day I will find such a shoe box(*))

Note: Btw, a fine site you have(Applause)

Rhiw.com
18th February 2006, 10:11
Yes I was a very lucky chappie, amongst them are about 12 Japanese cargo boats, they are the only ones that are not on line. The shoe box came from a retired school master, he had a project with his pupils, and wrote to several companies, and the shoe box was the result. But listen to this!!! he orginally had over 2,000 postcards, and he reckons the rest could still be in his loft, and I'm just keeping my fingers crossed on that one!!! Regards Tony (*))

Charlie_Wood
18th February 2006, 10:21
Thanks for that Tony, I'll be adding them to my files. Back to the original point, I have despaired how all the Clan Line men (in fact B&C group from my time) seem to have disappeared into the ether. I am trying to put together something for Paul Wood's training ships site (www.rakaia.co.uk) about the Clan Line training ships but there is little to find on the net for such a big outfit.

danube4
18th February 2006, 10:31
Thank you for your kind offer to down load Clan pics Tony. I also have ten Different to yours. You are all welcome to down load them. Mactavish. Davidson. Buchanan. Maclennan. Maclaren. Maclachlan. Lamont. Maclean. Cumming. Shaw. If you want any let me know. If you want them all let me know and I will up-load two each day.
All the best. Barney.

ruud
18th February 2006, 10:46
Yes I was a very lucky chappie, amongst them are about 12 Japanese cargo boats, they are the only ones that are not on line. The shoe box came from a retired school master, he had a project with his pupils, and wrote to several companies, and the shoe box was the result. But listen to this!!! he orginally had over 2,000 postcards, and he reckons the rest could still be in his loft, and I'm just keeping my fingers crossed on that one!!! Regards Tony (*))Ahoy Tony,
Where does that retired teacher lives?(Fly)
No, just joking,I know you like to share these as well, and we all hope that one day you will get these 2000 as well.
http://www.glesolutions.co.uk/images/fingers%20crossed.gif

R58484956
18th February 2006, 17:26
WEnt to Clan line for a job once, said " I want a 3rds job" Any tickets "no"
sorry no ticket no job. But I have just met one of your 3rds with no ticket (mentioned ship and name) Oh yes I know him but he has been with us for 25 years and we have rewarded him with a 3rds job. He had been a third for 22 years. Reckon he should have been in the Guiness book of records.

Jim S
18th February 2006, 17:59
WEnt to Clan line for a job once, said " I want a 3rds job" Any tickets "no"
sorry no ticket no job. But I have just met one of your 3rds with no ticket (mentioned ship and name) Oh yes I know him but he has been with us for 25 years and we have rewarded him with a 3rds job. He had been a third for 22 years. Reckon he should have been in the Guiness book of records.


Hence the term "Professional Third" - Many were invaluable to the company being a wealth of experience just never had the drive or academic ability to go for their tickets. On the other hand could be frustrating as they often graduated to the better ships and it could be dead man's shoes for ambitious 4/Es.
I don't know whether true or not but I heard once that in Blue Flue if no ticket by 26 years of age then you could be asked to leave to make way for others.

maurice gibson
9th February 2012, 01:54
i agree these guys were very good,i remember peter hollingsworth a rough tough geordie ,he had immaculte manicured nails but still managed to get really stuck in when things went wrong.I feel these guys were invaluable in that they were happy to stay at their rank because they did not have a ticket ,most of them were only too happy to impart their knowledge to any keen cadet or junior engineer.There was not much they did not know,a certificate of competancy does not mean that the holder is a better engineer,we are all differant some of us have ambitions to get to the top asap,others are happy to get to a certain level and carry on stress free.

alan ward
10th February 2012, 10:56
I don`t understand why there are so few postings from ex-Clan crew members.I have contacted ship mates on other sites often more by chance than good judgement.I sailed on the Ranald twice,Sutherland,Menzies and Malcolm working on many others too many to remember whilst in Birkenhead,London or Tilbury Docks.I found them a good outfit and only left them for promotion.

Chris Isaac
10th February 2012, 13:21
Our postings are divided between Clan Line, Union Castle, Bowaters, King Line etc etc.
Most of us by now have learned how to use a knife AND fork and so claim to have a Union Castle heritage.

Steve P
10th February 2012, 13:42
Started in '71 but didn't join my first ship until 1973. Clan Alpine in Avonmouth. Paid off in Glasgow and joined Clan Macgillivray, in Antwerp, the next day. Trips on Clan Ranald, Clan Macinnes and King Charles finished off the sea phase of my cadetship.Up to 3/E before it all went t*ts up and ended up on foreign flag reefers. Those few years with the Clan Line were the best I've ever had at sea - didn't want to come home half the time - shame it's not the same now!!

Robert Wheeler
15th February 2012, 09:56
Perhaps I should add my bit rather than silently watching in the background.

September 1973:
SA Oranje - 4th R/O, 2 trips and hated it.
Edinburgh Castle - 1.5 trips and things getting better mainly due to C/R/O John Walker (by name and tipple)
SA Vaal - 3/R/O, half a trip.
Clan Maclean - 3 trips
Clan Macintosh - 2 trips
King Richard
Everett F Wells - 3 trips
Clan Macgillivray
Sunnyway
King Charles
King Alfred
Mistral Universal
Kawkab 1

with a few coastals in between, then shifted to Cayzer's offshore section, Neptune Shipping -

December 1983:
Scirocco Universal
Al Zohal
Al Moshtaree
Al Zahrah
Al Zohal

December 1987.


Looking back I'm sure it's easy to forget the 'fed up' parts but there was a lot of good times in there, especially the last few years on the reefers.

andysk
15th February 2012, 11:44
Perhaps I should add my bit rather than silently watching in the background.

Edinburgh Castle - 1.5 trips and things getting better mainly due to C/R/O John Walker (by name and tipple) .....

When was this then Robert ? I was on her between Sept - Dec 1973

(Seems such a long time ago !)

Steve P
15th February 2012, 14:48
After the cadetship it was:
Clan Maclay 75 - 76 J/E
Clan Maclean 76 J/E
King James 76 J/E
Clan Macgillivray 77 J/E & 4/E
Kinpurnie Castle 78 - 79 4/E
Clan Macnab 79 4/E
Clan Graham 80 4/E
King Charles 81 3/E
Balmoral Universal 3/E
Al Mareekh 3/E

Transfer to Neptune
Al Moshtaree 83 - 84 2/E
Scirocco Universal 84 2/E
Caspian Universal 85 2/E
Al Attared 85 - 86 2/E
Mistral 86 2/E
Speedster Universal 87 2/E
Al Zohal 88 - 89 2/E promoted C/E 11/88
Al Attared 89 C/E
Al Zahrah 90 C/E

You are right Bob, there were plenty of good times in amongst that lot - not least when you were involved!!

macca57
15th February 2012, 21:01
SA Vaal November 1969 - December 1970
Clan Ranald April 1971 -August 1973
Clan MacIntyre September 1973 - October 1973

Banni
16th February 2012, 18:44
Thought I would jump on the bandwagon and keep the Clan Line forum on the posting list!!

Clan MacIntosh 10/75 - 02/76 - Cadet
Clan Grant 03 to 07/76 - Cadet
Clan MacGregor 12/77 - 05/78 - J/E
Clan MacGillivray 09/78 - 01/79; 03 to 09/79 & 10/79 - 01/80 - J/E
Clan Alpine 03/80 - 04/80 - 4/E
Balmoral Universal 05/80 - 09/80 - 4/E
Causeway 06/81 - 10/81; 02/82 - 08/82 - 4/E
Clan MacGregor 10/81 - 11/81 - 4/E (Last Clan ship handover)

Jim S
16th February 2012, 19:35
As I started this thread with a plea for some input from the Scottish Navy perhaps I should now show my hand - I did not sail with Clan Line although as a youth I liked to visit King George V Dock in Glasgow to view Clan and Blue Funnel ships.
As an apprentice with G & J Weir I worked for a couple of days on Clan Mactaggart (or might have been sister ship Clan Mactavish) at KGV on the overhaul of a boiler feed pump. - I was very impressed by the spacious engine room.
I completed my apprenticeship working on Transvaal Castle at John Brown's.
I was tempted to apply to Clan Line when I decided to go to sea but thought the company had too many "up and downers" and elderly motor ships for my liking. I was interested to read the post by Steve P that he sailed on Al Moshtaree - As Fyffes' Motagua she was my last ship when I sailed on her as C/E in 1974. - A ship with a bit of history, not all good.

Steve P
17th February 2012, 21:45
Hello Jim
Interested to see you had sailed on the Motagua. I joined her in Jeddah, not too long after we had taken over the four ships from Fyffes, as first trip 2/E. I can't remember who I relieved but can remember him telling me the Fyffes lads weren't too friendly toward these "foreign flag scabs" as we were called. All my reefer experience up to that point had been carrying citrus or deep freeze cargos (fairly straight forward to carry) so bananas came is a bit of a shock and a steep learning curve. A few engine problems (injection timing mostly) and that boiler.........!!! Still, some good people onboard, survived it and went on to sail on all four in the end. Saw the biggest scavenge fire I have ever seen on Al Zohal (ex Morant) - still wake up in a cold sweat thinking about that one!!
Regards Steve

Robert Wheeler
20th February 2012, 15:32
When was this then Robert ? I was on her between Sept - Dec 1973

(Seems such a long time ago !)

Hi Andy,

It was a long time ago. I was on GOHN from 9/1/74 till 18/2/74 and 27/2/74 till 22/3/74. On the second trip I was paid off down coast at PE to join the Vaal up coast as 3rd (aaargh the morning press from GKA and ZSC, all by hand then typed!).

Robert Wheeler
20th February 2012, 15:38
After the cadetship it was:

You are right Bob, there were plenty of good times in amongst that lot - not least when you were involved!!

The trouble is Steve, half the fun and games are difficult to remember and maybe some were a bit crazy so you're not sure whether you remember them straight. Still, there are times when something crops up and jogs your memory and brings on a smile.

cajef
21st February 2012, 12:10
Joined B & C after a fall out with Marconi

Clan MacDougall 4/66 -9/66
Clan MacLennan 11/66 - 4/67
Nicholas Bowater 7/67 - 5/68

Came ashore as met what I thought was the love of my life.(Turned out not to be, well not that one anyway:))

maurice gibson
21st February 2012, 13:26
Aye and you were always told you will know when it hits you,it must have been just a glancing blow,anyway i hope you got the right one eventually.I got a dear John from the love of my life,it broke my heart and to make it even worse he was a bloody radio officer,anyway he did me a real favour because i then met the love of my life and we are still married after 33 years, the wee darlin.Hope it wisny you that stole my bird!
cheers.
Maurice Gibson.

cajef
21st February 2012, 13:36
Hope it wisny you that stole my bird!


Not unless you have lived in Cornwall at some time though doubt it as have met her first one, been ashore a few years before the real one came along, all worked out at the second attempt, still together and enjoying each others company after over thirty years.(Thumb)

robert the bruce
9th March 2012, 16:14
Wow, I'am getting a little bit worried with Clan Line marital status, love of my life, a few years later, once again, the love of my life. It was the love of my life on a yearly basis, but I never forget. Every Christmas I send off a sackful of cards.

185Queens
29th April 2012, 12:49
I don`t understand why there are so few postings from ex-Clan crew members.I have contacted ship mates on other sites often more by chance than good judgement.I sailed on the Ranald twice,Sutherland,Menzies and Malcolm working on many others too many to remember whilst in Birkenhead,London or Tilbury Docks.I found them a good outfit and only left them for promotion.
Here's my career with B&C.
as Deck Cadet:
Clan Menzies joined at Hull on 4/2/76 and paid off on 16/5/76 at Genoa
Clan Ramsay joined at Cardiff on 25/6/76 and paid off on 24/8/76 at Falmouth
Clan Ramsay joined at Cardiff on 20/9/76 and paid off on 23/12/76 at Hull
Clan Ramsay joined at Wallsend (dry dock) on 17/1/77 and paid off on 25/3/77 at Hull (name changed to Winchester Castle)
Clan Mathieson joined at Hull on 27/8/77 and paid off on 10/2/78 at Avonmouth
King George joined at Rotterdam on 2/5/78 and paid off on 23/5/78 at Falmouth
Clan Malcolm joined at Hull on 25/5/78 and paid off on 20/10/78 at London
Clan MacGregor joined at Avonmouth on 4/12/78 and paid off on 22/12/78 at Manchester
Dover Universal joined at London on 17/8/79 and paid off on 30/8/79 at Hull
Winchester Universal loined at Southampton on 10/9/79 and paid off on 15/9/79 at Southampton
as Third Mate:
Clan MacNair joined at Manchester on 28/2/80 and paid of on 4/4/80 at Birkenhead
Clan MacNair joined at Birkenhead on 17/4/80 and paid off 30/6/80 at Mombasa (ship sold/handed over to Singapore owner)
Clan MacGregor joined at Glasgow on 3/11/80 and paid off on 16/3/81 at Avonmouth
King William joined at Falmouth on 2/6/81 and paid off on 9/6/81 at Falmouth
King Richard joined at Ghent on 24/6/81 and paid off on 26/10/81 at Rotterdam
King Alfred joined at Naples on 15/2/82 and paid off on 19/5/82 at Genoa
Kinpurnie Universal joined at Sheerness on 14/7/82 and paid off on 15/10/82 at Cardiff.
I was made redundant after that and came ashore to work in the NHS (briefly), as a photographer (self employed and then 6 years as an archaeological site photographer), and since May 1991 I have worked at the Norwich University College of the Arts in several roles - I've been the Resources Manager since July 2005.

Always happy to hear from old shipmates and Warsash alumni. I can be emailed at one8fiveATgmail.com (change AT to @).

maurice gibson
30th April 2012, 21:50
Alan,
I dont know if we actually met but looking at my old discharge book i left the Clan menzies in Hull 2/2/76 after doing a voyage ,i was a 5th engineer.I lasted with the company until about christmas,82 and got notice of my redundancy whilst on leave,my last ship was the Meltem Universal and left that at Jeddahon 19/10/82.I have a number of Clansmen magazines around this time and a will look through them,there will probably be some pictures of you and some of your old college pals,i looked at these recently and there was a few pictures of navigating cadets around this time ,i will look these up and let you know if you are mentioned.
Cheers,
Maurice Gibson

timo
30th April 2012, 22:08
185 Queens..........I was on the King Alfred in Naples when you joined 82, first trip deck boy. Colin Brookes was the bosun, from St Helena, A. Macintyre was the old man and Pete Ward the mate .....I think, long time ago now, i paid off in dry dock, Malta.

andysk
2nd May 2012, 12:40
185 Queens..........I was on the King Alfred in Naples when you joined 82, first trip deck boy. Colin Brookes was the bosun, from St Helena, A. Macintyre was the old man and Pete Ward the mate .....I think, long time ago now, i paid off in dry dock, Malta.

Archie Mac was a character, I wonder what happened to him.
Pete Ward, was he from Boroughbridge North Yorks ? If so, I sailed with him a couple of times, did he ever get his command ?

timo
2nd May 2012, 13:38
Can't help you with that one andysk, I did the Alfred, Scottish Lion and Edinburgh Universal and that was my lot with Cayzers, when I joined the Alfred end of 81 I think they had about a dozen ships under the red ensign, when I finished early 83 they only had 4 still trading, Pete Ward was English, thats as much as I can recall.

Fred Field
25th March 2013, 14:10
i agree these guys were very good,i remember peter hollingsworth a rough tough geordie ,he had immaculte manicured nails but still managed to get really stuck in when things went wrong.I feel these guys were invaluable in that they were happy to stay at their rank because they did not have a ticket ,most of them were only too happy to impart their knowledge to any keen cadet or junior engineer.There was not much they did not know,a certificate of competancy does not mean that the holder is a better engineer,we are all differant some of us have ambitions to get to the top asap,others are happy to get to a certain level and carry on stress free.

Porky Geordie Hollingsworth, together with Johnny Goodrum did our pre-sea training together at Les Broomfield's acadamy in Jan '67. Never saw them again until Nov '74 when I was standing in for Dave Bradford in Southampton just before I emigrated. A consequence of being a casualty of the Bowaters Marriage Bureau!

Fred Field
25th March 2013, 14:32
Started in '71 but didn't join my first ship until 1973. Clan Alpine in Avonmouth. Paid off in Glasgow and joined Clan Macgillivray, in Antwerp, the next day. Trips on Clan Ranald, Clan Macinnes and King Charles finished off the sea phase of my cadetship.Up to 3/E before it all went t*ts up and ended up on foreign flag reefers. Those few years with the Clan Line were the best I've ever had at sea - didn't want to come home half the time - shame it's not the same now!!

Steve, when were you on the MacInnes? I was S/2/E on her Aug '72 to Jan '73 and there were 3 engine gadgets Steve something, Andy Humpish and something Drysdale whose father was a C/E in Crazy Irvine. Was that Steve You?

Steve P
25th March 2013, 20:46
Hello Fred
No, I don't think so. I was only on MacInnes for 11 days in July '74. Joined N.Shields and paid off London. I have no memory at all of who was onboard sadly.
Regards Steve

Fred Field
25th March 2013, 21:49
Hello Fred
No, I don't think so. I was only on MacInnes for 11 days in July '74. Joined N.Shields and paid off London. I have no memory at all of who was onboard sadly.
Regards Steve

Steve,
Thank you for the response. I was on the Oranje in July '74.
The engine gadgets on the MacInnes when I was there did the trip out to South Africa, up the East African coast and back to the UK.
Fred

wharferat
26th March 2013, 12:28
Pete Ward, was he from Boroughbridge North Yorks ? If so, I sailed with him a couple of times, did he ever get his command ?

Peter got his Old Mans job on the reefers that Cayzers had the manning of from 1983. They later sold off the manning company & today it is London Ship Management.

andysk
26th March 2013, 16:12
Thanks Wharferat, it's good to know he got his command in the end with CI ...