Princesa

oldbosun
1st August 2004, 14:13
Greetings to all.

I'm looking for a photograph of Houlder Bros. "Princesa".
I sailed on deck in her in about 1947. Old coal burner, heavy on deck, bad feeder, but a grand old lady.

If anybody could direct me to a picture of her or email me a copy to via PM where I can give you my email address I'd be most obliged. Many thanks........Peter

Fairfield
1st August 2004, 18:33
Try www.merseysideviews.com and go into the Houlder Line secton.There/s a shot of her there.

oldbosun
1st August 2004, 23:07
Try www.merseysideviews.com and go into the Houlder Line secton.There/s a shot of her there.


They must have taken Houlder Bros. out since you were last in there Fairfield.

I searched through every shipping company in there, thinking that Houlder's may have been included as a subsidiary of one of the other companies. Thanks anyway for revealing a good website to me, so all is not lost. Regards.........Peter (oldbosun)

Fairfield
2nd August 2004, 10:11
Still there.Go into Merchant Shipping then Houlder.She is Photo No.14 with Tug.

oldbosun
2nd August 2004, 12:44
Ah yes. Thank you, I got her now. I see now that I should have scrolled across the page.

Fairfield
2nd August 2004, 20:54
Good.Not the best of pics but at least it/s there!

oldbosun
27th February 2007, 00:39
I sailed on Houlder's "Princesa" in '47. I joined her out of hospital in BA. We went down to Punta Arenas and from there to Liverpool to pay off. She was a coal burner and one of the worst feeders I was ever on.
She was a steamer and I used to go down the engine room and stand for ages watching those con rods going up and down and round and round. I wouldn't get so much fun watching TV these days as I did watching those engines. So quiet, just the hissing of steam. I always marvelled at the donkey greaser, an old Greek who timed his oil can to go with the movement of the engine, no matter how much the ship was 'chucking about'.
A great experience for a 17 year old which sticks in my mind to this day 60 years later.

non descript
27th February 2007, 15:00
Oldbosun, you have some amazing first hand experiences - I only have records. Princesa was built in 1918 by Alexander Stephen & Sons, at Govan; two 3 cylinder steam engines, twin screw. She remained in the fleet until 1949, when she was sold to breakers at Blyth.

Only two items of interest register with me; first a report that in July 1927 she lost her starboard propeller, some 250 miles off Cape Verde Islands, whilst en route back to the UK from the Argentine, but made it safely back at 8 knots on one propeller. - The second point of interest being that she transported back from Montevideo to the UK a special cargo consigned to the British Admiralty; a 4.1 inch twin gun salvaged from the Graf Spee. She stopped off briefly at Plymouth on 16th June 1940 to unload her special cargo, before heading on up to Liverpool, arriving there safely on 18th June 1940.

oldbosun
27th February 2007, 21:03
Well Tonga, I must say yes, I did have some great experiences as did all of us who lived that wonderful life regardless of what era we took part.
I sailed with some great old sea dogs, many of whom had experienced both wars. Men who held me spellbound with their yarns.
Which brings me to your mention of "Princesa" bringing back a salvaged gun from "Graf Spee".
So many times entering and leaving Monte did we see the wreck of "Graf Spee" easily visible. She didn't go entirely under when she was scuttled and she was easily visible well above water level. They used to sell postcards in Monte of her laying there. I never did have a camera in those days much to my regret in these days.
Funny,In those days I always thought that cameras were things that rich people had, like wrist watches and proper suitcases instead of canvas kitbags. Ah...such innocence.
My family had a neighbor who was in the cruiser "Ajax" in that battle, known as the "Battle of the River Plate", and he was the only one to come out of his gun turret alive, wounded yes, but still alive. In later years when I was a fully fledged seaman, we would have a few pints together, but he rarely spoke of that experience, even when pressed.
Thanks for the info of the Princesa and the gun Tonga, very interesting.

oldbosun
6th April 2007, 23:50
When I was in the Princesa years ago in Punta Arenas down in Tierra del Fuego, we laid at anchor because I think there were no actual docks there in those days and the 'dockies' would live on the ship on deck until loading was finished. They would set up tents etc and sleep under sheets of canvas.
There was this old boy who did their cooking for them and being as we were loading sheep. (Dead sheep) Well, lambs really which were brought out on flat barges. He would roast fresh killed lambs on a spit over charcoal, and did one for us crew too. Best lamb I ever tasted in my life before or since.Went down doubly well too because the ship was a lousy feeder.

Didn't mean to stray from the subject, but the cargo was young sheep, even if they were dead.
I just had to tell of a 60 year old memory.

marinero
7th April 2007, 12:20
When I was in the Princesa years ago in Punta Arenas down in Tierra del Fuego, we laid at anchor because I think there were no actual docks there in those days and the 'dockies' would live on the ship on deck until loading was finished. They would set up tents etc and sleep under sheets of canvas.
There was this old boy who did their cooking for them and being as we were loading sheep. (Dead sheep) Well, lambs really which were brought out on flat barges. He would roast fresh killed lambs on a spit over charcoal, and did one for us crew too. Best lamb I ever tasted in my life before or since.Went down doubly well too because the ship was a lousy feeder.

Didn't mean to stray from the subject, but the cargo was young sheep, even if they were dead.
I just had to tell of a 60 year old memory.

Hi Oldbosun.
I was on the Hardwicke Grange in the 60's and we loaded lamb at Tierra De Fuego. The apprentices had to live ashore and do the tallying and send it out in barges to the ship. As you say nowhere to tie up, in fact I think we might have steamed up and down offshore and loaded on the move( although my memory may not be as clear on this point) Captain Kent who was in command had to be hospitilised afterwards as I think the responsibility of the whole operation became a bit to much to bear.
Regards
Leo(Thumb)

non descript
16th April 2007, 17:26
Peter,

I finally found one for you, courtesy of John Clarkson and his D H Johnzon collection.

duquesa
16th April 2007, 19:35
Tonga, that'll do just fine. Anything is better than nowt as they say. Many thanks. I'm slowly, very slowly filling up my ship picture portfolio. Still hunting for one of the Zim Line bulker "Elat". She was eventually, possibly chartered to Upper Lakes Shipping but I'm not sure. Anyhow, wrong thread. Many thanks.

non descript
17th April 2007, 14:54
Peter, one small postscript on the Princesa. Mr D H Johnzon remarked that:

the Princesa was his favourite ship and after the vibration and noise of the El Argentino, the machinery silence above deck on Princesa was sheer heaven, despite the coal dust in the ears, nose and throat and even in one’s bunk after refuelling.

Happy days.

steve morgan
17th November 2008, 17:09
Steve Morgan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My dad served on the S.S. Princesa (Houlder Brothers) during WW2 from approx 1940 to 1945.
He was in the engine room I think.
His name was Arthur Morgan and he would have been 20 when he signed up.
He was a proud Welshman from just outside Newport. I have a photo of the Princesa if anyone wants a copy.
All the best,
Steve Morgan.
P.S. My Father-in-Law has just shown me a hardback book published by Houlder Bros in 1946 called Sea Hazard (1939-1945).
This is a history of all Houlder Bros ships during WW2 and shows the details of their ships torpedoed, bombed or otherwise sunk during WW2.
It also lists all individual ships engagements with the enemy, pictures of all ships in the Houlder Bros fleet, decorations earned by the crews and also lists the men who gave their lives during the conflict. It is over 100 pages and is a priceless record of that tragic and hazardous period. My father-in-law worked for Newport (South Wales) Stevedore Company during the war. This was owned by Houlder Bros so he would have loaded and unloaded the ships my father sailed on. What a coincidence and I only found this info out a week ago after being married to his daughter for 31 years!

non descript
17th November 2008, 18:01
Steve, I gather that Sea Hazard is quite a book - I have tried to find a copy without too much success, but I am very pleased you have a copy bearing in mind your direct connection.
(Thumb)
Mark

Corky
17th November 2008, 19:59
Steve, I gather that Sea Hazard is quite a book - I have tried to find a copy without too much success, but I am very pleased you have a copy bearing in midn your direct connection.
(Thumb)
Mark

http://www.doullbooks.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=50609&keyword=brothers+houlder&searchby=author&offset=0&fs=1&CLSN_957=122695171895701c405ab513b3e2fd37


A bit expensive!

Regards

Corky

non descript
17th November 2008, 20:12
http://www.doullbooks.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=50609&keyword=brothers+houlder&searchby=author&offset=0&fs=1&CLSN_957=122695171895701c405ab513b3e2fd37


A bit expensive!

Regards

Corky

Corky, thank you and that is most kind. - As you say, it is a little expensive and I tried negotiating a while ago, but was wholly unsuccessful. I even proposed bartering as well, but neither coconuts nor turtles were much in demand... (Jester).

As last resort I have today dropped a subtle hint to Mrs Tonga, and with Christmas not so far away, I believe she and Amazon are now entering into some dialogue, for and on behalf of Father Christmas.
(Thumb)
Mark

K urgess
17th November 2008, 20:54
16 available around the world
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bi=0&bx=off&ds=30&kn=houlder&sortby=3&sts=t&tn=sea+hazard&x=0&y=0

Kris (Thumb)

non descript
17th November 2008, 21:28
16 available around the world
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bi=0&bx=off&ds=30&kn=houlder&sortby=3&sts=t&tn=sea+hazard&x=0&y=0

Kris (Thumb)

Thanks Kris, I have dropped an even bigger hint (Jester) - I am confident that Mrs Tonga will strike a deal...
(Thumb)
Mark

steve morgan
18th November 2008, 15:58
I have just uploaded a photo of the S.S. Princesa into the gallery for general interest of all members.
She was owned by Houlder Brothers and my dad sailed on here thro most of WW2. He was still in the MN on the Princesa when he married my mam in Jan 1947.
After the honeymoon he had to go back to sea but for some reason which my mam is not sure about, she is almost certain he ended up on the SS Samtampa until end of March 1947 when he left the sea.
He was a very lucky man as the SS Samtampa went down a few weeks later (on the 23rd April) off the South Wales coast at Porthcawl en route to Newport from Middlesbrough.
All 39 hands were lost and even more tragically she capsized onto the Mumbles (Swansea) Lifeboat which was attempting to rescue the crew, and all 8 of the Lifeboat crew also lost their lives. Someone upstairs must have been looking after him!

non descript
18th November 2008, 16:38
Thanks Steve and for easy working the link to your picture is here. (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=148451)