5th Battle Squadron at Jutland

Alan Blair
1st March 2006, 13:17
This is the latest painting HMS Barham with Valiant and Warspite-----------Alan

benjidog
1st March 2006, 15:07
Nice picture Alan.

The pyramidical look to the ship looking at the bow is really striking isn't it?

Brian

Harry Nicholson
1st March 2006, 18:55
Superb painting Alan. Jutland always gets me wondering. But for the Kaiser I would not be here. My mothers fiance died in the stokehold of HMS Queen Mary at Jutland along with a lot more Hartlepool men, so she married an artillery man eventually... who was my Dad:

"I Blame Kaiser Bill"
(A tale of two Billies,)

Its all because of Kaiser Bill
That the 'Seidlitz' blasted to bits
The battle cruiser 'Queen Mary'
At Jutland.

Its his fault that Joe the stoker
Didn't come home to wed
My Mam, his intended,
That I am not here.

Instead she wed Billy
Of the artillery, so
I'm not who I might be
You see.

stevevincent1974
2nd March 2006, 17:00
Nice picture alan these were truely magnificent ships shame there history now but great that we have pictures like yours to remember these beautiful beasts.

Alan Blair
3rd March 2006, 09:36
Thanks Brian

Great little story and song Harry

Thanks Steve I'm doing a another painting of the Grand Fleet I'll post it when it's done, they were very impressive looking vessels

Many thanks------------Alan

johnjames06
9th February 2011, 20:38
Does anyone know who won the Battle of Jutland.

John Cassels
10th February 2011, 07:14
Does anyone know who won the Battle of Jutland.

Strategically yes .

Binnacle
10th February 2011, 10:12
Does anyone know who won the Battle of Jutland.

The British claimed it as a strategic victory as the German High Seas Fleet never ventured out again in force, though if you count the ships sunk then it was certainly a German tactical victory. During the battle Admiral Jellicoe said " There's something wrong with our bloody ships today". He was aware of the superiority of the German ships. however he was also aware that the destruction of the British fleet could lose Britain the war,

John Cassels
10th February 2011, 14:00
The British claimed it as a strategic victory as the German High Seas Fleet never ventured out again in force, though if you count the ships sunk then it was certainly a German tactical victory. During the battle Admiral Jellicoe said " There's something wrong with our bloody ships today". He was aware of the superiority of the German ships. however he was also aware that the destruction of the British fleet could lose Britain the war,

Fraid not , it was Beatty who made that quote.

The German High Seas fleet did come out again , in August and
November of the same year but the foray did not account to much.

Tha fact remains that on the evening of the 2nd.June , the Grand
Fleet was again ready for action , Jellicoe having then 24 intact
battleships and battlecruisers against the 10 available to Scheer on
the same date.

surfaceblow
10th February 2011, 15:47
A North Sea Diary 1914 - 1918 by Commander Stephan King-Hall has a first hand account of the Battle of Jutland has he seem the Battle on fold before him while he was a Lieutenant on the Light Cruiser H.M.S. Southampton. There are some sketches of the battle in the book. The book is available on-line for a free download, I got and read the book from the Barnes and Noble site, but it is available on other sites also.

Joe

johnjames06
10th February 2011, 18:23
Thanks for your opinions lads, all correct to a degree notwithstanding the slip of the pen about the bloody ships, Actually there was nothing wrong with the ships, it was the way that Beatty was using them, stacking cordite all over the place, leaving flash doors open to accomodate the British obsession with rapid shooting, But my question was who won the battle not who ended the day with the strategic advantage. The answer has to be the Germans. They sank more of our ships and killed more of our men so what more do you have to do to win a battle?. The only reason that Beatty was'nt court martialed for fighting his ships in a dangerous manner was that he was made CinC of the Grand Fleet and Jellico was made 1st Sea Lord and of course there followed a convienient cover up. A huge lesson was not learned at Jutland, dont fight battleships with battlecruisers, it will always end in tears ( Hood)

Binnacle
10th February 2011, 20:18
Fraid not , it was Beatty who made that quote.




I stand corrected John. As I wasn't sure whether it was Beatty or Jellocoe I checked with Google and obviously came up with the wrong answer. On rechecking the site it turns out it was some guy's blog who wasn't too knowledgeable.

Binnacle
10th February 2011, 20:36
In a bar in Harburg in the 70s there was a marvellous painting hanging on the wall, showing in the foreground a number of German seamen on a raft, one proudly holding aloft a tattered Imperial Navy flag. Behind on the horizon were a number of ships with blazing guns. Morale was obviously high. I assumed it was a scene from Jutland. There were no pictures like that on the walls when I visited the Elbe in the 40's. Suspect it had languished in the cellar during the Allied occupation. Has anyone seen this painting on the web ?

John Cassels
10th February 2011, 21:05
Thanks for your opinions lads, all correct to a degree notwithstanding the slip of the pen about the bloody ships, Actually there was nothing wrong with the ships, it was the way that Beatty was using them, stacking cordite all over the place, leaving flash doors open to accomodate the British obsession with rapid shooting, But my question was who won the battle not who ended the day with the strategic advantage. The answer has to be the Germans. They sank more of our ships and killed more of our men so what more do you have to do to win a battle?. The only reason that Beatty was'nt court martialed for fighting his ships in a dangerous manner was that he was made CinC of the Grand Fleet and Jellico was made 1st Sea Lord and of course there followed a convienient cover up. A huge lesson was not learned at Jutland, dont fight battleships with battlecruisers, it will always end in tears ( Hood)

This might well end up being a matter of opinion - or which historical
account you accept. My reading of the battle is that it was a
British victory. It's true that the Grand fleet lost more ships and men
than the High Seas fleet but that's about all.
Jellicoe's deployment on the port wing was perfect - so perfect that
Scheer was in fact trapped , not once but twice and had to twice
turn away. What saved Scheer from destruction after that was a
combination of the visibility , poor feedback to Jellicoe and a certain
overcaution on his part.
Scheer's only option was to try and escape which he ( cleverly) did.

Beatty made some mistakes but his first was his worst - failing to
ensure that the 5th.battle squadron followed him in his initial
persuit after Hipper. You are correct re flashdoors etc and the
misconception re the battlecruiser concept but had the 4 ships of
the 5th.been with him then Hipper's battlecruisers would have not
had the relatively easy time that they had.



We can discuss this for days but as I said , depends which history
you accept.

johnjames06
10th February 2011, 22:52
John, Battles are littered with what ifs and if onlys. Clearly we are in opposing camps over this and will never agree. This has raged for nearly 100 yrs and it will polarize naval opinion till the end of time. My own what if is --what if it had been Nelson and not Jellico, but here we go again.