Steam / diesel Engine

Paedrig
7th March 2006, 12:01
I've come across a reference to a steam asissted diesel engine, in a book by Capt. R F McBrearty. He makes a passing comment that not too many were made as the design evidently had some drawbacks. Since the book is about his seafaring days in the 30s I assume that this hybrid engine was designed at that time or could it have been earlier? Can anyone enlighten me further?

R736476
7th March 2006, 13:08
Paedrig,
My inherited 8th Edition of Macgibbon's Marine Engineering, now very tattered, dating from 1920s/30s describes "the Scott-Still engine as a combination internal combustion and steam engine; diesel cycle on top of the piston and steam on the bottom of the piston."
"The steam side is used to get the engine under way in place of compressed air, so doing away with large air reservoirs which are needed in the usual diesel engine".
"The steam used for starting purposes is raised in a set of boilers by using oil fuel burners to start up with, but as soon as the diesel part of the cycle is in operation, the waste gases are sent to the boiler to raise steam ..."
" The saving in fuel has been shown to be considerable. The heat efficiency in the M.V. Dolius is given as 40%, as compared with the usual 34% claimed by diesel engines."
There are diagrams of the engine in Macgibbons.
Don't know how many were ever built and never met anybody who sailed on one!! Don't know who owned M.V. Dolius. No doubt they were a real workhouse!!

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Alex

benjidog
7th March 2006, 13:25
Hi Paedrig,

Google hasn't been much help on this one - I spent half an hour or so but came up mostly with rubbish!:@

Not sure if it is relevant to what you are looking for but there is a reference to steam-assisted diesel engines at this URL: http://people.wartsila.com/pdf/mn1-00.pdf

Hopefully someone else will be able to help.

Regards,

Brian

Paedrig
7th March 2006, 13:31
Thankyou, that was most interesting. I've just gone back to his short reference to check the background again and all he states is that the vessel was owned by a "liner company with a fine reputation" and it was a run job from Birkenhead to London. He does add that he thought only three of this type of engine were ever built.
I now consider myself enlightened
Cheers
Pat

Bruce Carson
7th March 2006, 13:34
Hi:
There were two ships equipped with this type engine.
A good rundown on the engine may be found here:

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/POWER/still/still.htm

Bruce C.

Paedrig
7th March 2006, 13:47
Hi:
There were two ships equipped with this type engine.
A good rundown on the engine may be found here:

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/POWER/still/still.htm

Bruce C.
I'm overwhelmed with imformation. Thankyou
Just as an aside, not a research project, I wonder if the William Still referred to is related to W.Still who used to produce Galley water heaters and a steam heated bain-marie.

Thanks for your efforts too Brian, my typing is a bit slow.

Derek Roger
7th March 2006, 16:07
I understand there were a number of these hybrids using a Diesel- Main Engine and a Bauer- Wach low pressure stem turbine .
An exhaust gas boiler was use to generated low pressure steam by recovering the heat from the Diesel main engine exhast gases ; this was then supplied to the Bauer - Wach turbine which was connected directly to the main line shafting through a gear box with Vulcan Hydraulic clutch .
The Bauer -Wach turbine was initially designed and used with a Triple or Quadrupal expansion steam engine ; using the exhaust steam and so gaining more efficiency before being condensed and recycled .
Derek

japottinger
7th March 2006, 19:19
Dolius was owned by Alfred Holt, their Eurybates had same type of engine, but was converted to full diesel in the mid 1950's
The Scotts-Still was thermodynamically very efficient, but mantenance was heavy, hence conversion.

japottinger
7th March 2006, 19:21
Never heard of that arrangement Derek, I sailed on Umgeni which was twin screw triple expansion, with steam exhausting from the Lp cylinder to the exhaust turbine, which was connected to the prop. shaft voa a Vulcan hydraulic clutch. As far as I know all the Baur Wach's operated on this principle

jock paul
19th March 2006, 12:29
Looking with interest at "weird" steam plants.I was 2E in the 60's on the s.s. Monita. Swedish built, engined on the "Gotaverken System".Steam recip.Quadruple expansion. The interesting bit was that there was an exhaust turbine connected to the main shaft via hydraulic clutch and roller chain drive.This turbine was also direct coupled to a rotary seven stage compressor which drew steam from the 1st. I.P. cylinder, compressed it and delivred it to the 2nd. I.P.cylinder, hence both I.P. cylinders were the same diameter! She aslo sported 4 stage feed water heating. All this on a coalburner of about 1500 tons! Does anybody know the history of this ship. Monita was her original name. Apparentl it was a stipulation of sale that it was not to be changed. She also had an oil portrait of King Haakon in the saloon.

Bruce Carson
19th March 2006, 13:42
Hi Jock Paul:
There's a photo of her at the following site.
I'm guessing that "Upphuggen" translates as broken up.

http://kommandobryggan.se/last/monita.htm

Bruce C.

Paedrig
19th March 2006, 13:46
Looking with interest at "weird" steam plants.I was 2E in the 60's on the s.s. Monita. Swedish built, engined on the "Gotaverken System".Steam recip.Quadruple expansion. The interesting bit was that there was an exhaust turbine connected to the main shaft via hydraulic clutch and roller chain drive.This turbine was also direct coupled to a rotary seven stage compressor which drew steam from the 1st. I.P. cylinder, compressed it and delivred it to the 2nd. I.P.cylinder, hence both I.P. cylinders were the same diameter! She aslo sported 4 stage feed water heating. All this on a coalburner of about 1500 tons! Does anybody know the history of this ship. Monita was her original name. Apparentl it was a stipulation of sale that it was not to be changed. She also had an oil portrait of King Haakon in the saloon.
A bit "different" that system! I wonder what sort of fuel efficiency it gave.

jock paul
19th March 2006, 14:11
Hi Paedrig,thanks for reply, coal cosumption, it depended on the coal! We averaged out about 7 tons a day at about 11 knots. This wa actually very good considering the usual quality of the coal. We had 2 firemen plus 1 trimmer per watch and they were working flat out! I still have memories/nightmares? of putting tube stoppers in boilers under steam at sea!
jock.

lgm
15th May 2010, 12:39
Looking with interest at "weird" steam plants.I was 2E in the 60's on the s.s. Monita. Swedish built, engined on the "Gotaverken System".Steam recip.Quadruple expansion. The interesting bit was that there was an exhaust turbine connected to the main shaft via hydraulic clutch and roller chain drive.This turbine was also direct coupled to a rotary seven stage compressor which drew steam from the 1st. I.P. cylinder, compressed it and delivred it to the 2nd. I.P.cylinder, hence both I.P. cylinders were the same diameter! She aslo sported 4 stage feed water heating. All this on a coalburner of about 1500 tons! Does anybody know the history of this ship. Monita was her original name. Apparentl it was a stipulation of sale that it was not to be changed. She also had an oil portrait of King Haakon in the saloon.

There is another link with a bit more info. http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/monita_1945.htm
Are you sure it was King Haakon's portait? He was the Norwegian king.
The Swedish King would have been King Gustavius V .
I worked on the the next ss Monita it had a double compound engine with the same type of turbine as you described. It was sold 1972 to the Greeks.
/lgm