Obsolete Navigational Aids

lakercapt
15th March 2006, 14:13
Watching a programme on TV last night about the worlds worst jobs and this episode had a nautical theme.
ONe clip was about the "Snotties" i.e. midshipmen casting the log to find out the ships speed.
Don't know who their nautical adviser was but they did not do it right.
However that is not my point.
I got the grey matter going again about nautical navigation aids that we all thought absolutely necessary for us to go round the globe sucessfully.

One that I only ever saw used once but was a question in second mates ORALS.
How to use a deep sea lead. The patient lead was a contraption that had a reel with wire with handle for rewinding.
a large weight was attatched to the end and a glass tube with a chemical was put on it. Supposed to have a boxwood scale to measure it when it was recovered but if not there we a forumula (wet/dry X 5.5). Useless machine.
Others that I wonder if they still are used or even fitted to modern vessels

1. D.F.
2. Decca Navigator.
3. Echo sounders
4. Loran "C"
5. Gongs for use in fog when anchored.
6. All round signaling lamp
7. Aldis lamp with battery.
8. Sextant
9. Chromometer
10. Nories Tables
11. Patient log (the one that was streamed over the strn with a propellor
12. Chernikif log (the one that was a tube lowered when you cleared port and hoped to retract it b4 entering port
I am sure there are more and I look forward to some other views.
I was going to mention FLAGS (international code) but that is a topic I won't mention again

Pat McCardle
15th March 2006, 14:15
Watching a programme on TV last night about the worlds worst jobs and this episode had a nautical theme.
ONe clip was about the "Snotties" i.e. midshipmen casting the log to find out the ships speed.
Don't know who their nautical adviser was but they did not do it right.
However that is not my point.
I got the grey matter going again about nautical navigation aids that we all thought absolutely necessary for us to go round the globe sucessfully.

One that I only ever saw used once but was a question in second mates ORALS.
How to use a deep sea lead. The patient lead was a contraption that had a reel with wire with handle for rewinding.
a large weight was attatched to the end and a glass tube with a chemical was put on it. Supposed to have a boxwood scale to measure it when it was recovered but if not there we a forumula (wet/dry X 5.5). Useless machine.
Others that I wonder if they still are used or even fitted to modern vessels

1. D.F.
2. Decca Navigator.
3. Echo sounders
4. Loran "C"
5. Gongs for use in fog when anchored.
6. All round signaling lamp
7. Aldis lamp with battery.
8. Sextant
9. Chromometer
10. Nories Tables

I am sure there are more and I look forward to some other views.
I was going to mention FLAGS (international code) but that is a topic I won't mention again

1 & 2 gone but the rest are still there along with the signal flags. (Thumb)

eldersuk
15th March 2006, 15:29
Not strictly navigational aids, but what about the six wooden buckets of sand to put the fire out? They were certainly still around in the 70's.

Derek

Jeff Egan
15th March 2006, 16:12
When I was at college in Liverpool we used to get lectures on how to use a slide rule, don't suppose you see many of them at sea these days!

rstimaru
15th March 2006, 16:14
the six wooden bucket were on the flying bridge as for the codes you mentioned i doupt they would even know what they were these days they are all G.P.S nav aids i sometimes wonder what would happen if they were all scrubed

dnobmal
15th March 2006, 18:54
British certified Masters & Mates they were in abundance once, but becoming rather scarce in numbers now to what we had

Pat McCardle
15th March 2006, 19:55
British certified Masters & Mates they were in abundance once, but becoming rather scarce in numbers now to what we had

Along with British AB's, Cooks, Stewards, Motormen the list is endless (Cloud)

dnobmal
15th March 2006, 20:24
Along with British AB's, Cooks, Stewards, Motormen the list is endless (Cloud)
Sorry did not mean to offend but my answer was in the context of navigational aids,I agree with you wholeheartedly it takes everyone to man and run a ship from Deck-boy to Master

EBenarty
15th March 2006, 23:04
Watching a programme on TV last night about the worlds worst jobs and this episode had a nautical theme.
ONe clip was about the "Snotties" i.e. midshipmen casting the log to find out the ships speed.
Don't know who their nautical adviser was but they did not do it right.
However that is not my point.
I got the grey matter going again about nautical navigation aids that we all thought absolutely necessary for us to go round the globe sucessfully.

One that I only ever saw used once but was a question in second mates ORALS.
How to use a deep sea lead. The patient lead was a contraption that had a reel with wire with handle for rewinding.
a large weight was attatched to the end and a glass tube with a chemical was put on it. Supposed to have a boxwood scale to measure it when it was recovered but if not there we a forumula (wet/dry X 5.5). Useless machine.
Others that I wonder if they still are used or even fitted to modern vessels

1. D.F.
2. Decca Navigator.
3. Echo sounders
4. Loran "C"
5. Gongs for use in fog when anchored.
6. All round signaling lamp
7. Aldis lamp with battery.
8. Sextant
9. Chromometer
10. Nories Tables
11. Patient log (the one that was streamed over the strn with a propellor
12. Chernikif log (the one that was a tube lowered when you cleared port and hoped to retract it b4 entering port
I am sure there are more and I look forward to some other views.
I was going to mention FLAGS (international code) but that is a topic I won't mention again

3. Still in use
5. Still in use ( Bell and gong )
6. Still in use
7. Still in use
8. Still in use
9. Still in use
10. Still in use

John Briggs
16th March 2006, 03:15
When I first went to sea (mid fifties) the cadets regularly used the hand and deep sea lead as it was thought to be good training for young fellows to improve their seamanship skills.

The hand lead was quite enjoyable and became a bit of a contest between us to see who was most proficient. One poor cadet managed to land it on the foc'sle head - he really copped it for that one. Photo attached of a port arrival.

The deep sea lead was an absolute pain in the ****!.

captainrodaway
16th March 2006, 04:41
I always enjoyed swinging the lead. As Briggs says, always a contest. We've got a 18 yr old Loran-C onboard. It's been turned on all of 3 or 4 times in the last 6 years. One of our two GPS units is bolted to the top of it. Other then the 1940 R.C.N. Aldis lamp on my mantle, the last time I saw one on a ship was 8 years ago. Apart from Alpha, Bravo, Hotel, Oscar & Quebec, I haven't seen signal flags used for anything other then dressing ship or just having fun sending signals to old shipmates. My favourite signal has always been Sierra November - "You should stop immediately. Do not scuttle. Do not lower boats. Do not use the wireless. If
you disobey I shall open fire on you"

Keltic Star
16th March 2006, 06:52
You still need the gongs but otherwise the rest of the list is redundant.
Morse code has been dicontinued. The last time I saw a lead line used was going up the Hooghly River to Calcutta in 1961 and that was by the leadsman who accompanied the Pilot.

Anyone other than Everards men steer by compass points instead of by degrees?

Today navigation is all electronic, it's worked for aircraft for the last thirty years and finally we have caught up.

The latest chartplotters are available at a price of between $1200 and $3000 US and a faily good radar without all the bells and whistles in the same price range.

With radar and GPS, you should not need a depth sounder, it only tells you when you have exactly run aground, you don't have to follow a line of soundings up the Thames estuary in thick fog anymore

At a pinch, you only need your laptop computer and a handheld GPS. You can purchase a GPS for a little as $39.00 U.S. and yoiu can download free navigation sofware. All U.S. charts can be downloaded free and for other areas the price of chips is lower than buying the paper charts and you don't have to correct them as updates are automatic.

Ralf I Karlson
16th March 2006, 07:21
As a teacher in navigation the pupils thought the same way, and I used to ask them what they were going to do when they run out of electricity. Quite a few of these items are very selldom used but we need them there for sure. A few years ago we started to discuss identficaton of stars, which led to that on my watch, 4-8, there were all the cadets, and a couple of filipino AB:s with 3:d mates licences making astronomical obresvations, and discussed about all the finesses. It actually started from finding Zubenelgenubi, and what great fun that was!!!

Keltic Star
16th March 2006, 07:37
As a teacher in navigation the pupils thought the same way, and I used to ask them what they were going to do when they run out of electricity. Quite a few of these items are very selldom used but we need them there for sure. A few years ago we started to discuss identficaton of stars, which led to that on my watch, 4-8, there were all the cadets, and a couple of filipino AB:s with 3:d mates licences making astronomical obresvations, and discussed about all the finesses. It actually started from finding Zubenelgenubi, and what great fun that was!!!

As an old timer myself, I couldn't agree with you more. However the answer to no electricity is "change the batteries". House bank batteries will also work. As for astro navigation, I'm glad I can use it, but don't see too many Boeing 777"s with a bubble sextant aboard.
Cheers
Bob

Keltic Star
16th March 2006, 07:45
When I was at college in Liverpool we used to get lectures on how to use a slide rule, don't suppose you see many of them at sea these days!

You must be one of the young ones Jeff, in my day we used an abbacus!!
Seriously though, anyone remember the Friden machines that were used for calculating cargo aboard on tankers. You wound round a handle for each addition or multiplication. Looked like bus conductors ticket machines.

Sebe
16th March 2006, 07:54
You must be one of the young ones Jeff, in my day we used an abbacus!!
Seriously though, anyone remember the Friden machines that were used for calculating cargo aboard on tankers. You wound round a handle for each addition or multiplication. Looked like bus conductors ticket machines.
Great machines as long as you didn't forget how many times you had turned the handle if distracted!

Sebe

Ralf I Karlson
16th March 2006, 08:06
So u never run into a situatiuon when there is all sorts of batteries around, exept for the one u need ?

Chris Field
16th March 2006, 09:38
Even though I'm yet another traditionalist and old-timer (Elleramn & Bucknall 1952-56 etc) I still maintain that Capt. Cook would have demanded a GPS if they had been around- they are marvellous. BUT have any of you used it around poorly-charted coastal routes such as Papua New Guinea? Ours frequently gave us positions that on the chart purported to be villages/hills/estuaries- even though we could see the items miles away!
Even the radar pictures didn't agree with the shapes of much of the coast as charted- so it was always back-to-basics as far as the mates were concerned- the main topic being to concentrate on one's distance off a nasty thing like a rock rather than where we were on the earth's surface... (Fly)

Ralf I Karlson
16th March 2006, 12:22
I've come across the same problems, the charts aren't good enough, coming down east of papua-ng between all the beatifull islands you really have to look out, not rely on the electronics.
We even had an accident here in the northern baltic where the electronics had an newer chartdatum than the chart!
What we have to get through to the younsters is that the reason that there is a good view from the bridge is that one is supposed to see what's going on.
There is a story going around here which unfortunately could be tru, that one of the first who graduated with our new system went signed on his first job as 3:d mate, and everything wenr well, working with all computers and such on the bridge, until late afternoon and it became dark, when this guy asked distressed that "are you driving these things when it's dark?"
The few years I've left before retirement can't be short enough!
When the old joke that one dares to sleep only on his own watch becomes a fact ....

Jeff Egan
16th March 2006, 12:45
Ah "Zubers" I was on one ship where just for fun we only checked the Gyro by taking an Azimuth of Zubenelgenubi, it caught on for a while, just a bit of madness as we became "Stir" crazy on long trips from Europe to the gulf.

Orcadian
16th March 2006, 23:12
One one ship that I was on the three mates had a competition to see who could get the strangest star for an azimuth. Cant remember who one but there were some strange names. As a young keen third mate i used to to shoot the moon and cross it with the sun and occasionally i have used a meridian alt of venus crossed with the sun for a position during the mornings. Taking stars was much more satisfying than the sun. Them were the good old days when it was rum bum and baccy not its ciggys whisky and bloody women???

Interesting site this (Thumb)

R798780
17th March 2006, 07:55
One one ship that I was on the three mates had a competition to see who could get the strangest star for an azimuth. Cant remember who one but there were some strange names. As a young keen third mate i used to to shoot the moon and cross it with the sun and occasionally i have used a meridian alt of venus crossed with the sun for a position during the mornings. Taking stars was much more satisfying than the sun. Them were the good old days when it was rum bum and baccy not its ciggys whisky and bloody women???

Interesting site this (Thumb)

One trip the 2nd mate Dan Scroggie complained that all I ever took was Polaris or an amplitude of the sun. That started me off. Armed with a couple of old star charts I made a list of named stars beyond the 57 varieties. Cor Caroli was one of the first. Still got that list somewhere. Only in dire situations did the compass error book have a 57 varieties star on my line.

Chris Field
17th March 2006, 21:18
Talking of Mer Alts and Polaris etc reminds me of the time (1955, "City of London")when we were searching for Jeddah - miles off-shore because of the dubious stuff on the charts then and unidentifiable mountain tops in the far-distant background- and Capt Jeffers got me to tell him when we were on the correct latitude to go in on 090 (T) to the pilot. Polaris was the method of choice, my trusty Hughes sextant did the trick, and the pilot vessel turned up dead ahead- a canoe paddled by a ten-year-old lad with the pilot (turbanned and curved dagger in his belt!) sitting in the rear...

R.Philip Griffin
17th March 2006, 23:52
Ahoy
Nos1;2;4;11;&12, used to be considered in the same way as a musical horn on a car-very nice to have, but completely un-necessary. All the others were regulatory equipment. Nories tables were my favourite, but there were others - Davies? I think. What a pain in the ginger recovering the log.
Grifmar

Hugh Wilson
18th March 2006, 02:35
We still use number 12, the speed log, to measure the speed through the water, usually when approaching an SBM, as opposed to the GPS indicated speed over the ground. These days its either an acoustic or a doppler log which uses a transducer similar to an echo sounder, so it doesn't need retracting in shallow water. The older types either use a Pitot tube to measure the pressure of the water forced into the tube as the ship moves forward with the scale calibrated in knots or they are the magnetic type which rely on the theory behind Fleming's right-hand rule about current being induced into a conductor moving through the earth's magnetic field. Either way they were both a pain in the a....e to replace when someone forgot to retract them.

HW

Peter Eckford
25th March 2006, 16:41
Ref. the mention of the international code: When the code was being composed some clever person with a sense of humour managed to line up "Infectious disease" with the three letter signal POX in spite of the alphabetical system.

Peter E.

pete
25th March 2006, 21:27
My favourite signal in the PRB Code was "BRO" which meant Ball or Balls. A very good answer to some unruly vessels of the time.............pete

Nairda59
26th March 2006, 14:15
No2 Shore Stations make excellant houses, the equipment station has made one house and the geny room has made another. With Velux windows in the roof they are superb 3 bed houses (Barra,Western Isles)

Flemings right hand rule - I should sit down in a darkened room Hugh !!!

It was always the "not any working" whatever the list was, that showed who the seamen were. I was always told that Christopher Columbus never had any of that new fangled gear all he had was a couple of oars (or was it whor##)

athinai
29th March 2006, 00:16
Hi Lakercapt and fellow travellers, Good list there, and for info the DF is still alive and kicking in the Aviation World, the beacons ident is still in morse code, as are all Aero navigational aids onboard aircraft, including ILS instrument landing systems etc., and it works a threat, suggest next time visit the Cockpit and have a Ragchew with the lads.,Certainly it nearly went overnight from the Marine envoirnment, what a pity, Remember making unsure landfalls off the Canadian Coast coming in from Europe in Fog with a Dodgy Radar, it always saved the day. Brings back memories ???? and dont forget Consol great fun back then counting the dots and dashes. WOW or am I getting old.

trotterdotpom
29th March 2006, 12:12
Hi Lakercapt and fellow travellers, Good list there, and for info the DF is still alive and kicking in the Aviation World, the beacons ident is still in morse code, as are all Aero navigational aids onboard aircraft, including ILS instrument landing systems etc., and it works a threat, suggest next time visit the Cockpit and have a Ragchew with the lads.,Certainly it nearly went overnight from the Marine envoirnment, what a pity, Remember making unsure landfalls off the Canadian Coast coming in from Europe in Fog with a Dodgy Radar, it always saved the day. Brings back memories ???? and dont forget Consol great fun back then counting the dots and dashes. WOW or am I getting old.

No Athenai, I was also thinking of Consol. I remember using it on trawlers approaching the Norwegian coast - position plotted on printed out charts just like the Decca ones - quite accurate too (after a few miscounts). Apparantly some of the stations were still operating in the 1980s.

Good to hear that DF is still alive and well, even if only airborne (although I must confess doing test bearings was a bit of a pain when that was the only time it was used on board ship). I worked on Nab Tower Lighthouse in Spithead and had to switch on the beacon for 'Queen Mary' to do a DF calibration on her last trans-Atlantic runs - bit of a treat.

John T.

DerekC
29th March 2006, 19:53
HI All,

Just reading the comments about the demise of DF for ocean nav. As noted above radio direction finding has actually become much more technological and sophisticated in recent years. Someone mentioned its use in aviation, its also a very important part of military reconnaissance techniques and can be a real battle winner if used to locate enemy headquarters in the field. It is also being used nowadays to locate mobile phones after they have been triangulated from nearby mobile phone masts.

So, now that the rest of the world is catching up with DF'ing we old sea dogs who relied on it to make safe landfalls can feel justifiably proud of our early endeavours.

Having said that a nice GPS comes in really handy too! (Fly)

regards

DerekC

Santos
29th March 2006, 20:46
Piece of string and a penny bicycling map of the east coast.

R651400
5th April 2006, 04:47
Good to hear that DF is still alive and well, even if only airborne (although I must confess doing test bearings was a bit of a pain when that was the only time it was used on board ship). John T.

Sailed with a Second Mate who couldn't handle a sun-gun or tables, had me taking bearings at some 200 miles from the coast and used them instead.
The DF was RCA swinging loop type, stand alone console in the wheel-house, which at these distances amazed me with it's accuracy. Malcolm

Peter Martin
14th March 2008, 09:36
Lord Kelvin's Patent Sounding Machine. I remember receiving a message from India Buildings to dump the machine over the siide. This was in the very early seventies. Only ever used it once and that just out of curiosity. Inconclusive result obtained.

vasco
14th March 2008, 14:02
1. D.F.
2. Decca Navigator.
3. Echo sounders
4. Loran "C"
5. Gongs for use in fog when anchored.
6. All round signaling lamp
7. Aldis lamp with battery.
8. Sextant
9. Chromometer
10. Nories Tables
11. Patient log (the one that was streamed over the strn with a propellor
12. Chernikif log (the one that was a tube lowered when you cleared port and hoped to retract it b4 entering port
I am sure there are more and I look forward to some other views.
I was going to mention FLAGS (international code) but that is a topic I won't mention again>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

1 & 2 Obselete for us.
All the rest are still in use and except for the patent log on every coastal vessel I have sailed on lately. The Pitot is needed to use for ARPA as speed through the water is required for plotting.

Together with 2 or 3 gps, AIS ( the biggest headache of all) and a cupboard full of checklists.

I have one thing to thank the DF for. If life is boring I just say something like 'my goniometer is playing up today'. You'd be surprised how many people ask if you've seen a doctor about it. Try it!

Dave Wilson
14th March 2008, 14:17
8. Sextant
!

Do any of the intake (Cadet) in recent times know how to use Item 8?

James_C
14th March 2008, 14:37
Dave,
It's still part of the curriculum, although the Norwegians have tabled an amendment to have it removed from STCW regulations.

mikeg
14th March 2008, 14:41
As an old timer myself, I couldn't agree with you more. However the answer to no electricity is "change the batteries". House bank batteries will also work. As for astro navigation, I'm glad I can use it, but don't see too many Boeing 777"s with a bubble sextant aboard.
Cheers
Bob

No bubble sextants aboard 777's but flight training still depends on the old fashioned methods, i.e. a circular slide rule called a 'whizz wheel' to work out DR calculations of drift correction, distance run, fuel conversions etc. no batteries are require and you can still navigate if your GPS packs in. Also aeronautically they still occasionally use - and identify NDB's (MF non directional beacons) and some other beacons by morse code.
Cheers,
Mike

Trevorw
14th March 2008, 17:28
Watching a programme on TV last night about the worlds worst jobs and this episode had a nautical theme.
ONe clip was about the "Snotties" i.e. midshipmen casting the log to find out the ships speed.
Don't know who their nautical adviser was but they did not do it right.
However that is not my point.
I got the grey matter going again about nautical navigation aids that we all thought absolutely necessary for us to go round the globe sucessfully.

One that I only ever saw used once but was a question in second mates ORALS.
How to use a deep sea lead. The patient lead was a contraption that had a reel with wire with handle for rewinding.
a large weight was attatched to the end and a glass tube with a chemical was put on it. Supposed to have a boxwood scale to measure it when it was recovered but if not there we a forumula (wet/dry X 5.5). Useless machine.
Others that I wonder if they still are used or even fitted to modern vessels

1. D.F.
2. Decca Navigator.
3. Echo sounders
4. Loran "C"
5. Gongs for use in fog when anchored.
6. All round signaling lamp
7. Aldis lamp with battery.
8. Sextant
9. Chromometer
10. Nories Tables
11. Patient log (the one that was streamed over the strn with a propellor
12. Chernikif log (the one that was a tube lowered when you cleared port and hoped to retract it b4 entering port
I am sure there are more and I look forward to some other views.
I was going to mention FLAGS (international code) but that is a topic I won't mention again
Deep sea lead sounders did have their uses. We used to use ours for shark fishing! Put a meat hook on the end with a large joint of meat, swing out the boom and reel it out. Anchored off Belawan in the Malacca Straits we got a 14 footer using this method. Once it was hooked, we wound it in, which took forever, then when it was alongside we got a wire strop round it and winched it onto the for'd well deck. It was great sport and the Chinese crew appreciated it for obvious reasons. I have to say it didn't do the sounding machine much good though!

price
14th March 2008, 17:37
Has anybody mentioned Console ? (sp) ?. I remember playing around with it many years ago. There used to be console charts with a list of radio beacons and call signs. I think one of the stations was Bushmills, the bearing, which had to be corrected was normally indicated by the call sign followed by a specific number of dots. As I mentioned this was all a long time ago and my memory has faded a bit, used it on vessels without Radar or Decca.
Bruce.

mikeg
14th March 2008, 18:29
Has anybody mentioned Console ? (sp) ?. I remember playing around with it many years ago. There used to be console charts with a list of radio beacons and call signs. I think one of the stations was Bushmills, the bearing, which had to be corrected was normally indicated by the call sign followed by a specific number of dots. As I mentioned this was all a long time ago and my memory has faded a bit, used it on vessels without Radar or Decca.
Bruce.


Yes it was Consol,
As well as Bushmills (266kHz) there was
Stavanger (Norway) 319kHz
(FRQ) Quimper (France) 257kHz
(LG) Lugo (Spain) 285kHz
(SL) Seville (Spain) 315kHz

Cheers,

Mike

K urgess
14th March 2008, 19:48
Is that the one where you had to count the dots and dashes to get a bearing?

mikeg
14th March 2008, 20:06
Is that the one where you had to count the dots and dashes to get a bearing?


Yes Kris, thats right.. sends you dotty after a while (==D)

BeerSailor
15th March 2008, 10:44
We spent two days using Consol in filthy weather with no radar, Decca or DF. With three of us counting dots and dashes we surprised a cynical OM by raising Bishops Rock nicely to port. We found Consol signals to be hopelessly blurred at night and anywhere near sunrise and sunset.
Yes it was Consol,
As well as Bushmills (266kHz) there was
Stavanger (Norway) 319kHz
(FRQ) Quimper (France) 257kHz
(LG) Lugo (Spain) 285kHz
(SL) Seville (Spain) 315kHz

Cheers,

Mike

ajaxrm742sq
15th March 2008, 11:32
....that proper education and training have been superseded by digital equipment that can be operated by morons.
One day the satellite system will break down - that'll be a laugh!

mikeg
15th March 2008, 11:39
We spent two days using Consol in filthy weather with no radar, Decca or DF. With three of us counting dots and dashes we surprised a cynical OM by raising Bishops Rock nicely to port. We found Consol signals to be hopelessly blurred at night and anywhere near sunrise and sunset.

I found many folk sceptical about Consol but in my experience it actually worked remarkably well providing you avoided those poor reception periods. It's good to hear of its use under such adverse conditions. I'm afraid my only experiences are in it's use for training or just for curiousity - usually the Consol results were compared favourably with known nav fixes.

Mike

Bill Davies
15th March 2008, 11:42
James-C
Quote: It's still part of the curriculum, although the Norwegians have tabled an amendment to have it removed from STCW regulations.:Unquote

Jim,
Although I am well known for for disregard for STCW qualifications your above does concern me. I heard similar in a recent NI meeting directed at UK but just dismissed it as talk. Worrying!

Ajax742sq
Agree with you fully. Thank god I'm out of it!

mikeg
15th March 2008, 11:42
....that proper education and training have been superseded by digital equipment that can be operated by morons.
One day the satellite system will break down - thet'll be a laugh!

Or mid Pacific in a lifeboat (EEK)

K urgess
15th March 2008, 12:32
Treating the power of the sea with contempt can only lead to tears.
We seem to have a culture of reliance on technology with a complete disregard for worst case scenarios.
Does this mean modern crews and ships are just disposable assets?

Ron Stringer
15th March 2008, 18:07
I found many folk sceptical about Consol but in my experience it actually worked remarkably well providing you avoided those poor reception periods. - usually the Consol results were compared favourably with known nav fixes.

I found it both reliable and surprisingly accurate when on the Iberian coast and across Biscay in poor weather. On ships without Decca Navigator (most of those that I sailed on) there was nothing else to touch it. The results were always better than the D/R.

John Briggs
16th March 2008, 00:57
For me, the most devastating item to be relegated to the status of obsolete navigation aid is the bridge front windows. The new breed never seem to use them!

sparkie2182
16th March 2008, 01:00
not seen a "kent glass" for years, come to think of it, john

vasco
16th March 2008, 07:32
not seen a "kent glass" for years, come to think of it, john

They are still going around

John

trotterdotpom
16th March 2008, 11:59
Hate to show my ignorance, but is a Kent Glass a clearview screen or what?

Or is it a receptacle for that revolting beer from Sydney, Kent Brewery - KB (aka Kiddies Beer) - thankfully defunct?

I used to love gobbing on clearview screens and marvelled at how the thickest, greenest chunk of flem would disappear - magic.

Should I see someone about this?

John T.

sparkie2182
16th March 2008, 20:26
you never did tell us why you were discharged from the Royal Yacht Britannia, trotterdot..................:)

vasco
16th March 2008, 23:33
Or is it a receptacle for that revolting beer from Sydney, Kent Brewery - KB (aka Kiddies Beer) - thankfully defunct?

I used to love gobbing on clearview screens and marvelled at how the thickest, greenest chunk of flem would disappear - magic.

Should I see someone about this?

John T.

yes it is a clearview and yes you should see someone (maybe a dry cleaner?)[=P]

Outlawtorn70
22nd March 2008, 23:05
Treating the power of the sea with contempt can only lead to tears.
We seem to have a culture of reliance on technology with a complete disregard for worst case scenarios.
Does this mean modern crews and ships are just disposable assets?



I completely do agree...

"Bug them before they bug you."....

UK091181
1st May 2008, 12:14
Swallowed the anchor about eighteen months ago after seventeen years. I was still using the ALDIS lamp on the port wing more often than I'd have liked to give five or more short and rapids to all those lovely fellows who don't like to give way for a crossing vessel. I usually followed this by taking action as stand on vessel, so yes, I guess it is redundant.

JimC
1st May 2008, 13:35
I found it both reliable and surprisingly accurate when on the Iberian coast and across Biscay in poor weather. On ships without Decca Navigator (most of those that I sailed on) there was nothing else to touch it. The results were always better than the D/R.

Problem with Decca in the early days was that you had to be half wayback to Ushant before it was reliable.
I know it's not a nav 'bit' but does anyone remember a thing called a Pneumercator Guage? We had one on a Denholm ship I was on. You pumped it up like a bicycle tyre which caused two columns of mercury to rise. Then you released a valve and were rewarded with the draft. Fore or aft. I suppose it worked a bit like the cuff of a blood pressure sphygni-thing or whatever?

Jim C

trotterdotpom
1st May 2008, 14:19
".....does anyone remember a thing called a Pneumercator Guage? We had one on a Denholm ship I was on. You pumped it up like a bicycle tyre which caused two columns of mercury to rise. Then you released a valve and were rewarded with the draft. Fore or aft. I suppose it worked a bit like the cuff of a blood pressure sphygni-thing or whatever?"

Jim, sounds like a great gadget which could also be used as an enema.

John
T.

Phil C
1st May 2008, 14:23
The clear view was always handy to ignite damp matches and lite your fags.
With regard to the depth sounder, a previous post said that they were now redundant. I use one all the time but do get to a lot of out of the way locations (fishery protection), its a bit embaresing to be stuck on a sand bank in full view.(K)
Oh just remembered we also use a VHF DF for casulty location but not for navigation.

jimmys
1st May 2008, 14:24
Chernikeeff logs are still on the go made by Lilley & Gillie in England. Used in Navy ships goodness knows what for.
The speed log I have used was a SAL log used to be in the engine room and went out thro' the double bottom. Used to help the Second Mate keep it going,it had lots of small bore tubes that used to block and airlock. The read out was on the bridge. SAL are still on the go as well.
The Pneumercator Guage was a first class piece of equipment used for bunker tank dips in the engine room as well as draft on the deck. Gone because of mercury dangers.

regards

Chouan
1st May 2008, 15:14
No2 Shore Stations make excellant houses, the equipment station has made one house and the geny room has made another. With Velux windows in the roof they are superb 3 bed houses (Barra,Western Isles)

Flemings right hand rule - I should sit down in a darkened room Hugh !!!

It was always the "not any working" whatever the list was, that showed who the seamen were. I was always told that Christopher Columbus never had any of that new fangled gear all he had was a couple of oars (or was it whor##)

On the other hand, Columbus never knew where he was, and even by the time of his death was convinced that he'd discovered Japan.