Model Paddlers

Jim MacIntyre
16th March 2006, 17:50
Spent some time in the Model gallery - obviously a bunch of talent within the group... Noticed in particular two builders of side paddle wheelers - japottinger and ernest. I am presently building a 1/84 scale model of the P.S. 'Waverley' and I'm stuck with a decision on how to power the model.
Did you use one shaft for both paddles or two separate half shafts/motors/controls etc.?? Certainly the single shaft would be the easier solution but I'm wondering about steering - the scale rudder looks awfully small.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Jim MacIntyre

Jim S
16th March 2006, 21:34
To be authentic she should have only one shaft for both paddle wheels - this web site had a great discussion on this aspect for full size paddle vessels.
You might just start them off again. Perhaps American Rules were different but I think it was a Board of Trade requirement that UK passenger carrying paddle vessels had both paddle wheels driven by same shaft.

ps I have just posted pictures of Pacific Fortune and Pacific Unity in the Gallery that might assist in your quest to build a model of the former.

Jim MacIntyre
17th March 2006, 18:03
Hello Jim S
Thanks for the postings of the Pacific ships. I should have acknowledged your earlier postings (which were promptly transferred to 'my pictures'), apologies for that oversight.
Agree the Waverley does or did run with one shaft for both paddles and it is said that docking a some of the berths in the Clyde back in the 'Doon the Watter' days were rather scary as a result.
I'm hoping for feedback from modellers who have built and run side paddlers as to the tradeoff between installing one shaft (less time and machinery in building) and two half shafts (better control on the water)
I would be great to see updates from the previous discussion on paddles - I'm sure feathering came up once or twice.. Since starting my project on the Waverly I discovered had I retained the original scale from the plans (1/56 or 54) I could have ordered paddles from Graupner that would fit with some minor alterations. Now I have to find or make the paddles..that is another whole story..
Cheers
Jim MacIntyre

Jim S
17th March 2006, 19:26
Hello Jim S
Thanks for the postings of the Pacific ships. I should have acknowledged your earlier postings (which were promptly transferred to 'my pictures'), apologies for that oversight.
Agree the Waverley does or did run with one shaft for both paddles and it is said that docking a some of the berths in the Clyde back in the 'Doon the Watter' days were rather scary as a result.
I'm hoping for feedback from modellers who have built and run side paddlers as to the tradeoff between installing one shaft (less time and machinery in building) and two half shafts (better control on the water)
I would be great to see updates from the previous discussion on paddles - I'm sure feathering came up once or twice.. Since starting my project on the Waverly I discovered had I retained the original scale from the plans (1/56 or 54) I could have ordered paddles from Graupner that would fit with some minor alterations. Now I have to find or make the paddles..that is another whole story..
Cheers
Jim MacIntyre
There is a guy who runs a business called Waverley Models who has built a 13 feet long !! model of same (pictured on his website) I was looking to see if I still had a copy of a model magazine from some years ago that featured the building of working model of Waverley - must have dumped it cannot even remember the title of the magazine might have been "Model Boats" or "Marine Modelling"

Jim MacIntyre
17th March 2006, 19:33
Yes Jim - I recall seeing something in Paddleducks - another website which is run in a forum very similar to this one.
I wasn't sure how to get around it so I opted not to join, but after my experience here I will take another look. I definitely recall a photo showing the man standing in the pond with a huge Waverley model floating beside him.
Cheers
Jim Mac

Jim S
17th March 2006, 19:41
Yes Jim - I recall seeing something in Paddleducks - another website which is run in a forum very similar to this one.
I wasn't sure how to get around it so I opted not to join, but after my experience here I will take another look. I definitely recall a photo showing the man standing in the pond with a huge Waverley model floating beside him.
Cheers
Jim Mac
Yes that's the one !!

Jim S

Jim MacIntyre
17th March 2006, 21:01
Just been back into Paddleducks.
The man is Gib Duthie but cannot find any information on him other than he may have a connection with Scoonie Hobbies in Kirkcaldy.
Cheers
Jim Mac

Jim MacIntyre
21st March 2006, 03:52
Jim S
Just been back in Paddleducks again and I was wrong.
The real modeller is Mike Mayhew. He lives in Clevedon outside Bristol UK
his web site is www.waverleymodels.co.uk
I wish I had one that big....
Cheers
Jim Mac

BarryM
23rd March 2006, 14:23
Jim,
I believe JimS was right when he said that all merchant paddlers had a single shaft for both wheels. I got round this and remained authentic by building a model of one of the 'Director' Class paddle tugs which as Naval Grey Funnel line vessels were exempt. They were diesel-electric paddlers with independent, feathering wheels. The construction of the feathering system turned the air blue.

Jim MacIntyre
23rd March 2006, 16:15
Hello Barry
Maybe I'll restart the project in 1/54 scale, then I can buy the tailor-made Graupner paddles which will fit that scale with some minor adjustment.
Not too worried about authenticity under the skin more concerned about control on the water - never ran a paddler before.
It may all turn out to be a moot point for a few months because with warmer weather here the 'honey-do' list had appeared on the fridge door (I can't get a beer without going to the fridge....we drink them cold here in the U.S...).
Cheers
Jim Mac

BarryM
24th March 2006, 15:33
Hi Jim Mac,

As I said I have independent paddle control but also a working rudder on that model. However, I find that most of the time I don't bother with the rudder as, even in slightly over scale size, it isn't of great effect. Using single stick control of the wheels via a mixer (tank tracks system) could be interesting.

Could it be that Americans chill their beer to kill the taste?

Cheers
BarryM

Jim MacIntyre
24th March 2006, 20:25
Hi BarryM
I knew I shouldn't have opened that 'beer' door....
Mixers and tank tracks probably far beyond my capabilities, all my past work has been two channels - very basic, but in this case with a rudder area not much bigger than a postage stamp the paddle control would definitely be better.
quoting someone else in the group "I need a bigger Boat"
Cheers
Jim Mac

georged
24th March 2006, 20:34
A good many years ago I happened to be the on turn pilot when the Waverly arrived on one of her around UK trips.
I had assumed wrongly, that the paddles could operate independently ie. one ahead one astern for example. The master told me that many years ago this was the case, but unfortunately a paddle steamer, I think a paddle tug, had capsized and things were changed.
The Waverly has a single rudder which was useless unless doing at least five knots, maybe more, and as we approached the dock at the rate of knots, the master took great delight at my increasing agitation. However when the engines were stopped she drew up in little more than her own length, and all was well.
Well worth a visit if she is in your area.
Georged

Bunkerbarge
2nd April 2006, 13:21
If paddles are not perfectly synchrionised they can set up a resonance and the vessel starts to rock from side to side. This rocking can increase until the vessel capsises.

This is exactly what happened with the marine casulalty being referred to and is why the rules in the UK were changed to ban independant control.

One of the rare occasions where the authentic solution is actually the easier one!!

Jim MacIntyre
3rd April 2006, 02:21
Hello Bunkerbarge
If you sit and think about it with the paddles coming in contact with the water out of synch it would produce a rocking effect. Would not have thought sufficient to capsize. Just out of curiosity do you know the name of the tug ? did it have feathering paddles ? my thought is would that have made a difference with their angle of entry into the water..

Jim MacIntyre

BarryM
6th April 2006, 12:46
I believe that independent paddle operation could also give problems with stability if one wheel was Full Ahead while the other was Full Astern. Whatever, the 'Director's" all survived.

allantcondie
15th May 2007, 21:09
I have built a number of 1:48 scale paddlers - Lincoln Castle, Wingfield Castle, Waverley 1899, Waverley 1947, Fair Maid 1915, Marmion, Lucy Ashton.

All were exactly to scale and have fully working feathering paddles. As per the prototypes the paddles are attached to a single shaft. It's not that difficult to build feathering wheels - I cut the frames (spiders) from an old aluminium body panel from a bus!

If you build them to scale then they sail like the real thing!

ATC