Asiafreighter

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Fairfield
16th August 2004, 07:43
Managed by Denholm/s in Glasgow,she and her two sisters,ASIALINER and EUROLINER were a familiar sight on the Clyde in the early days of First Generation container ships in the 70s-this taken in 1973.
Gas turbine powered,they were extremely fast ships.All later sold out and over the last 5 years or so have all gone to breakers.

Gulpers
8th September 2005, 21:52
GTV Asiafreighter had 3 sisterships. Asialiner, Eurofreighter and Euroliner, all built in Emden, owned in the US and British flagged. The original concept was that the Euro ships would run from UK / Continent, across the pond to East coast USA. The boxes would then be transported across the States by rail for collection by the Asia ships on the West coast. This cunning plan was foiled because, to cross the Pacific, the ships would have had to stop off in Hawaii for bunkers. Commercially this wasn't viable because of the US Coast being a closed shop for US flag ships.

Accordingly, the four vessels ended up on the Atlantic run. They had a 28 day programme and one would arrive off Gourock to collect their pilot - George Grierson - every Friday morning at 06:00 hrs. Ports of call were Greenock, Weehawken (New Jersey), Baltimore, Norfolk, Wilmington (NC), Charleston, off Brixham (to collect North Sea Pilot), Le Havre, Rotterdam, Bremerhaven and back to Greenock via the Pentland Firth and Minches. Not bad in 28 days, considering we singled up to one engine when going across the Atlantic.

cboots
9th September 2005, 05:48
Thanks to both posters for reminding me of these interesting vessels, I remember them well from the days when box boats seemed to be getting faster and faster. They had adapted aircraft turbines didn't they? I recall that they did some fantastic speed and drank the bunkers like a thirsty sailor. I never knew that the concept had been an early day intermodal one, and of course, US West Coast - Hawai would be Jones Act. Though it surprises me that they could not have got a waiver on the grounds that they were only bunkering, not working cargo. Couldn't have had the right political connections.
CBoots

Gulpers
9th September 2005, 09:27
The four ships were powered by twin Pratt & Whitney Gas Turbines. As mentioned in my previous post, we generally didn't need the speed when crossing the 'pond'. The ships came into their own on the coast when, if there had been a delayed departure from one port, we had to 'boot it' to reach the next port on schedule.
I served as Cadet, 3/O and 2/O on the Asiafreighter and Asialiner and used to get a real buzz when driving the maritime equivalent of a Porsche up the English Channel.
All four ships were originally powered by Dash 4 Pratt & Whitneys - the engines fitted to a Boeing 707. The Asiafreighter was used as a testbed for the US Navy and could also use the Dash 12 Pratt & Whitneys - these were the engines fitted to early Boeing 747s. With the 'big' engines fitted the AF could easily maintain 36 knots without going to 120% power. The best speed I ever witnessed on the AF was 43 knots 'over the ground' with a following tide in the Pentland Firth - chocks away, or what?
cboots is correct, all that power came at a price. The AF could consume 240 tons of MGT4 a day on each engine. There were a couple interesting spin offs from burning Av Gas. Tank inspections could be carried out without getting filthy and secondly, there was a residue from the burnt fuel which was pumped into bunker barges in Rotterdam each trip. This waste was able to be burned in conventional diesel engines without any further refining.
Oh happy days - I have so many memories of these ships and the people I sailed with.

Gulpers

Marcus Cardew
9th September 2005, 18:11
I came across most of these boats when I was with ACL on the Conveyor and Causeway (24.5 knots downhill, with sun astern). Was always very impressed when the Denholm GT's 'took off' at the mouth of the Clyde.... There was also a SeaLand GT vessel that I saw once.. I think it was named SL181... not very pretty, but went like smoke!

Gulpers
9th September 2005, 19:41
Marcus has a point. These were the only ships I sailed on where you could watch the log increasing or decreasing like a car's speedometer. I remember one occasion when sailing from Greenock on the Asiafreighter, we dropped the pilot at Kempock Point, Gourock, and by the time we reached the Cloch corner, we were up to full sea speed.

All very well until the company received a letter from Dunoon Town Council complaining that our wash had picked up several 'hire' rowing boats from the beach and dumped them above the high water mark!

Gulpers

japottinger
9th September 2005, 19:51
What ticket did the Chief Engineer have, steam or diesel!

Gulpers
9th September 2005, 20:09
japottinger, thanks for the question.

I honestly don't know. Engineers were always a mysterious breed to me. I do recall the first time I went below to transfer ballast in the Engine Control Room on the GTVs and being amazed to see the Engineers wearing immaculate white boiler suits. Instead of being festooned with 'shifters' and hammers, they had a dinky little row of ring spanners in their top pockets!

However, I remember that we used to have two RO's. A junior who used to take care of the daily schedules between Glasgow and the States and the senior RO who was retitled as an ECO. The Electronics and Communications Officer spent most of his time working on control systems for the Gas Generators and Gas Turbines.

Rgds,

Gulpers

cboots
10th September 2005, 05:18
All this sounds like a different world, science fiction almost, to an old 13 knot man. It sure must have been fun though.
Envious CBoots

R58484956
10th September 2005, 10:35
Generally speaking steam turbine/ gtv engineers nearly had clean white boiler suits as there was no oil/grease on the loose, whereas diesel ship engineers generally had greyish boiler suits gained from oil etc when repairing the engine.

Gulpers
11th September 2005, 12:35
cboots,

Science fiction indeed. The bridges were hi-tech but a visit to the engine control room was like stepping into the 'Star Trek' set! Remember we are talking about the early 70s here.

Rgds,
Gulpers

japottinger
11th September 2005, 18:12
There was a full description of these ships in a shipping magazine at toime of commissioning, I think the idea was that they could replace a gas turbine in 8 hours. I will need to look out the magazine.
Actually I think the Chief had to have a combined ticket, steam for the clean whirly bit and diesel for the dirty grease driven bit!
Guess what machinery I sailed with !

Gulpers
11th September 2005, 20:18
japottinger,

Yes you are absolutely correct. You will have gathered that I used to 'drive' the ships and engineering was not my field.
On the Eurofreighter, Euroliner and Asialiner, the engine 'change over' time was around eight hours. On the Asiafreighter, eight hours was the norm if we were changing from a Dash 4 to another Dash 4, or a Dash 12 to another Dash 12. If the 'change over' was from 4 to 12, or vice versa the job took about fourteen hours. From what I remember, this was mainly due to engine mounts (beds) having to be swapped over.
Remarkably, the 'change over' was generally done at sea, when on passage from Greenock to Weehawken. We would arrive in Weehawken to find our 'new' (serviced) engine waiting for us on the quayside.

Gulpers

Gulpers
24th September 2005, 06:32
For those who have followed this topic, I have found a German website which has interesting material on the construction and propulsion of the Euro and Asia Containerships. If I have copied the link correctly, this should be a translated version of the site.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.beachcomber.gmxhome.de/euroliner.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAsialiner%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr %3D%26sa%3DN

ex ro
30th October 2005, 20:08
hi Iwas a second radio officer on the Asiafreighter over the winter of 72 she was almost brand new, and was very futuristic for her time with microwave ovens etc, infact I believe she was designed for the crew to have frozen meals and to cut the crew members to an absolute minimum. She also had a crew lift, which was virtually unheard of on a cargo ship, her callsign was GOYX the radio room was marconi as was I, she was an extremely busy ship in terms of radio traffic, and because of her speed it was easy to get to the destination before the agents had sent the berthing info. The bridge was up to the mark with Loran ,but somewhat spoiled with as I recall interswitched Marconi Raymarc radars. The main tx was a Crusader !.6 kw and she had the ultramodern Apollo main rx regards ex ro

RobW
6th January 2006, 14:58
I read with great interest the correspondence on the Euroliner-class boxships since I dealt with these superb vessels in their final years with OOCL which purchased the ships from Hamburg-based Ahrenkiel following the demise of Seatrain in 1980.
By this time they had been re-engined by HDW, Hamburg with twin medium-speed Stork Werkspoor diesel engines after the huge increase in fuel costs between 1973 and 1979. Whilst they were re-engined their carrying capacity was increased from around 1,700 TEU to 2,200 TEU by increasing their draught and expanding their on-deck box capacity.
Initially OOCL used all four ships on a RTW service between the US and the Far East but during 1987 transferred three of them to the Dart Line which saw them return to the transatlantic trades as replacements for the so-called 'Seapac' (1,000 TEU) vessels built by Namura, Japan which by then had become too small for this service.
The replacement diesel engines brought about a major decrease in service speed to around 19-knots. Interestingly, some of the space taken up by the air intakes in the accomodation block during their Pratt & Witney period was converted to crew quarters after they were re-engined. Sadly the ships suffered regular breakdowns and additional engineers would regularly travel with the vessels, no wonder they needed additional cabins !!
OOCL sold the ships in 1991, two went to CMA of France whilst Shanghai-based Cosco also bought a pair.
Euroliner and Eurofreighter were demolished in 1995 as Bright River and Splendor River whilst Asiafreighter was scrapped in 1998 with Asialiner finally bowing out in 2001 after 29 years in service.

R58484956
6th January 2006, 15:31
Welcome Robw to the site, your 1st posting is very interesting. more to come?
enjoy the site and a happy new year to you.

R651400
6th January 2006, 16:16
This was grand reading Fairfield.
Easy on the abbrevs lads, this old break/bulker & tanker man can only just get the grey matter round TEU.
Now just wait till the Brussels lot get their hands on that one!
"Not METRIC!!! This will never do!"
Chief or 2nd R/O on any of this class would have done me nicely, excepting was there ever time enough in port to have a bevvy?
Any pics of that Marconi lineup ex RO?
Welcome to the site Rob W.

Tom Morton
6th January 2006, 16:26
[QUOTE=Gulpers]
With the 'big' engines fitted the AF could easily maintain 36 knots without going to 120% power. The best speed I ever witnessed on the AF was 43 knots 'over the ground' with a following tide in the Pentland Firth - chocks away, or what?


Those speeds absolutely boggle the mind !!! Given that that was in the 70's, what speeds are such ships capable of now.
My memories of crossing the pacific at 12 knots, with a couple of stops to change fuel valves must sound quite archaic ; yet that was early 60's.
With all those advancements down below, what happened on the bridge/ Presumably sextants are quite obsolete!!

RobW
6th January 2006, 16:53
Tom might be interested to know that no big containerships travel faster than around 24-25 knots these days with most running at between 20-22 knots. Typically they are powered by one slow-speed diesel with the largest ships of round 9,000 TEU capacity requiring about 90,000BHP to reach their service speed.
However, gas turbines have made something of a comeback in merchant ships with several new major cruise vessels utilising this power source, including the QM2 which has two General Electric 40,000SHP units fitted in addition to four diesel motors.

John Cassels
7th January 2006, 10:57
Tom;
I was ch,mate on all 4 Seatrain ships 1974-1977 and have never heard of the
Asiafreighter(fastest of the 4) recording 43kts. Also 36 knts without 120% power
is also an exageration.
Was on board her during the famous Arsine gas incident and even running out
to the western approaches to meet up with HMS Kent for the gas freeing operation
we never got near to 36 kts.
They were also not particularly good sea ships , especially in a following sea and
stability was the mate's nightmare.
The most that can be said for the speed ia that you very rarely had a crossing
situation.

JC

Gulpers
7th January 2006, 11:08
John,

Happy New Year!

Beg to differ! I was on board AF with Dougie Naismith as Old Man when she clocked 43 knots 'over the ground' in the Pentland Firth. I vividly recall Dougie's celebratory binge afterwards! The 43 knot spurt was only over a very short period (12 minutes) but was still most exhilarating. Conditions in the Pentland Firth were absolutely perfect and unusually, flat calm. Our ETA was timed to perfection so we able to make the transit at the maximum ebb spring tide.
No disrespect to Dougie whatsoever, he was a madman at times but he was probably the best ship handler I ever sailed with. (Thumb)

John Cassels
7th January 2006, 18:44
Ray;
Your lack of experience re the GTV's is beginning to show.

43 knts (over the ground )---------how was that acertained... in your dreams !.

If you think that DM was probably the best ship handler you ever sailed with...
then I rest my case.

JC

Gulpers
8th January 2006, 09:34
John,

I'm not going to fall out with you over this! I only sailed on the two Asia ships, not all four like you but, I reiterate that I was there, and I know what I witnessed.

As for a character assassination of DN - I'm not going to get into that one. I will however say that I wasn't a great fan of his because of his drinking habits but on several occasions I witnessed him manoeuvring those ships in a way that no other could! Maybe it was alcohol-induced bravado, or pure luck, but he did the business!
(Thumb)

contals
8th January 2006, 23:29
I only did a single (28 day) trip on Asialiner in 1975 ish as cadet. George Mayne was old man and spent his last trip in the foces'l making furniture

I remember the entire crew being permanently jet lagged as there were clocks every night due to the speed.

Storm damage resulted in a plentiful supply of bicycles washed up on deck.

On our return to Rotterdam a change of pilots asked for Full ahead- being cadet I did as told, within a ships length we were doing 12 knots, the third mate pulled her back and rapped my knuckles- (Ian MacKay?)

There were rumours then of the Asiafreighters 43 knots through the Pentland Firth, apparently a van was seen on a parrallel course ashore and the ship left it standing.

After I left there were interesting stories about Seatrain being a money laundering excercise for an Italian-American organisation in Hoboken. Unconfirmed reports of 40 foot containers in the dock area being fitted out and staffed by PVC clad ladies offering "services" to passers by....

Colin

RobW
9th January 2006, 16:44
Please feel free to check out the photos of this class recently posted on the gallery under 'Asiafreighter'.
During their diesel days Harwich pilots would moan about their lack of maneuveribility, twin screw one rudder didn't help I guess without the punch of gas turbines.

R651400
9th January 2006, 17:19
After I left there were interesting stories about Seatrain being a money laundering excercise for an Italian-American organisation in Hoboken. Unconfirmed reports of 40 foot containers in the dock area being fitted out and staffed by PVC clad ladies offering "services" to passers by....
Colin
Thanks for keeping the 43 knot Pentland Firth dash alive. Just love the comparison between the AF and the van.
Coincidentally the same organisation did the same with Sealand in Newark NJ. Not only Sealand but the entire city itself went to the dogs.
Newark was my homeport before all this happened and a nice place to visit.
I used to watch the Sealand containership in wonderment and I have to admit with a bit of sceptism. Oh ye of little faith!

Gulpers
9th January 2006, 20:48
Please feel free to check out the photos of this class recently posted on the gallery under 'Asiafreighter'.



RobW,

Excellent photographs and thanks for sharing them with us. (Thumb)

Gulpers
9th January 2006, 21:00
.......... incidentally the same organisation did the same with Sealand in Newark NJ. ........... I used to watch the Sealand containership in wonderment and I have to admit with a bit of sceptism .........

Malcolm,

The Sealand ships were steam powered. I remember seeing SEALAND MCLEAN on the odd occasion. Launched in 1972, the first SL-7 was the largest and fastest container ship of her time. She used to cross the Atlantic 'flat out' and was an impressive sight. There were eight SL-7s built and they were eventually sold to the U.S. Navy as logistics deployment vessels.

SEALAND MCLEAN was named after Malcon McLean, who was born in Maxton, N.C., a trucker who was credited for having started the container revolution. (Thumb)

turbines48
22nd January 2006, 15:46
USCG required EITHER Steam or Motor on the GTS Admiral Callaghan

Angus Murray
12th February 2006, 01:08
Hi all!
Regarding the record speeds attributed to the GTV's. I joined the EUROLINER as 2nd Mate when the vessel was about 6 months old. One thing i do remember is recording a speed of 36 kts (over the ground, in a 20 minute period) again with a full Spring Tide in the Pentland Firth. This was verified by the (off duty) North Sea Pilot who had embarked at Brixham, and would be leaving the vessel in Greenock. Best General Average Speed achieved during my time on board was 27.2 kts on the voyage from Charleston to Le Havre. Great vessels to sail on, except for the Omega Nav Systems and the Stability problems as mentioned by John. Masters during my time on board were I C Campbell and Tam Cormack (with the late Dougie as Chief Officer). Great change from a pevious transatlantic Winter crossing on the ORMSARY at 6/7 kts!!
Regards to all

muldonaich
12th February 2006, 07:49
What ticket did the Chief Engineer have, steam or diesel!
they all had to have a combined ticket

muldonaich
12th February 2006, 08:03
Hi all!
Regarding the record speeds attributed to the GTV's. I joined the EUROLINER as 2nd Mate when the vessel was about 6 months old. One thing i do remember is recording a speed of 36 kts (over the ground, in a 20 minute period) again with a full Spring Tide in the Pentland Firth. This was verified by the (off duty) North Sea Pilot who had embarked at Brixham, and would be leaving the vessel in Greenock. Best General Average Speed achieved during my time on board was 27.2 kts on the voyage from Charleston to Le Havre. Great vessels to sail on, except for the Omega Nav Systems and the Stability problems as mentioned by John. Masters during my time on board were I C Campbell and Tam Cormack (with the late Dougie as Chief Officer). Great change from a pevious transatlantic Winter crossing on the ORMSARY at 6/7 kts!!
Regards to all
you say the late dougie has he passed away??

John Cassels
13th February 2006, 08:17
Angus,

You mention the "late" Dougie.

Who do you mean??

JC

Angus Murray
16th February 2006, 14:55
Regarding Dougie Naismith: A Chief Engineer who sailed with me in Stirling Shipping (and who belonged to Bridge of Allan, Dougie's home town) informed me when he came back off leave, that Dougie had passed away in hospital in Edinburgh. This goes back to sometime in the eighties, not too sure of the exact year. This coming from a reliable source, i have no doubt regarding the authenticity of the report. If this is true, Dougie must have been a relatively young man at the time of his death.

Angus

R58484956
16th February 2006, 15:46
Welcome Angus to the site enjoy it and all it has to offer.

John Cassels
17th February 2006, 19:46
Angus,
You only said "Dougie"and I never mentioned Naismith but looks like we both
are talking about the same person.
did not know that DN had passed away - very sad - he was indeed not so old.
Last sailed with him on the Cast Puffin early 1981.

JC

Angus Murray
19th February 2006, 23:09
I have noticed a few references to Capt Norman Angus Macdonald by those who sailed with him on the GTS and other vessels (To John Cassels - i think you also mention sailing with him on the Naess Cavalier) . In case you are not aware of it, NA sadly passed away a couple of years ago. Other ex Denholm Masters still hale and hearty in Lewis are Malcolm Thompson and Bert Frater.
Angus

John Cassels
20th February 2006, 10:23
Angus,

Confirms what Kevin said that N.A.Mac passed away a couple of years
ago. Very sad , I learned a lot from that man.

JC

David Scott
10th April 2006, 20:57
Ray;
Your lack of experience re the GTV's is beginning to show.

43 knts (over the ground )---------how was that acertained... in your dreams !.

If you think that DM was probably the best ship handler you ever sailed with...
then I rest my case.

JC

John, I was on the Euroliner for a while and found the engineering interesting. I learned to use lockwire and a wiretwisting tool sitting cramped up in the enclosures changing out turbine blades because of "hot-section sulphidation". Only lost a few gas generators. When I returned some years later they had stopped using MGT7 fuel and were on a heavier blend meaning all kinds of money-saving attempts (homogenszers, fuel additives) resulting in lots of troubles with the turbines. And I remember our service speed being 27 knots and rarely exceeding that. Who was it that let the flashlight go through the turbine on her maiden voyage? There's a good question.
Nights going through the Minch, parcels would be dropped off the fantail and a fishing boat would pick up whatever. Can imaging that when they changed out the engines and had less speed they would have been real uncomfortabe dogs.
Scotty

muldonaich
10th April 2006, 21:55
it was the old man regards kevin.

John Cassels
11th April 2006, 08:46
David;

As Kevin says , it was the Master at the time and if my memory is correct , it was
Ian Graham (superman).
Questions re dropping things off the poop. Kevin and I have a mutual aquaintance
who may have practised this black art.

JC

muldonaich
11th April 2006, 17:03
hi john yes it was i c graham i was washing out the engine in the plenum chamber when he came in the door he tripped on the hose and the torch flew out of his hand i saw a lot of sparks as it got sucked into the engine ian ross jun chief said to me what was that i said the old mans torch his reply was he can tell the f----nn chief him self his next masters job was the dunblane wee nick constantis the greek in nj was not a happy chappie when we got there ah but the memories are great regards kevin yes we threw a few things over for a certain fishing boat wich shall remain nameless b j is doing fine by the way he sends his regards.

John Cassels
11th April 2006, 19:18
Kevin,

Great we can talk in code because for the outside world he will stay B.J.

Yes, I thought it was I.C.Graham but wasn't sure. I sailed with him after the
torch incident also on the Eurofreighter but it was something he never talked
about. Don't blame him. remember Ian Ross well, he was chief then. Other
ch.engs on the GTV's I sailed with --- Sandy(forgot his name);Dick Stevenette
John Benn; Mick MacManus and probably a lot more that I can't remember.

Nick in Weehauken, wow there's a guy I don't miss. Guess we could write a book
about the things that happened on the GTV's. Still got my testimonial letters
that I got after the gas affair which is a story in itself though am still not allowed
to talk about it.

One of these days I'll see you two again ( you and B.J. I mean )!!!!!!!!!!!.

JC

muldonaich
11th April 2006, 22:16
another great guy was jun chief on them was allan blackwood think he ended up super with stena line be great to get together again for a few beers regards kev.

Gulpers
12th April 2006, 01:25
Kevin/John,
Another Chief - Willie Thorburn.

Anyone who sailed on the GTV's could have a pretty shrewd guess at who BJ is! If I remember correctly he also discouraged the use of toilets when passing a certain Hebridean Island. (*))

I sailed with his brother “Pedro” on Arctic Troll several times. Did either of you ever meet him? He's another of life’s real characters (Thumb)

muldonaich
12th April 2006, 06:37
i sailed with him as well on vancouver forest used to visit him when he was home sailed with willie thorburn still got the scar to prove it neil mac mahon was another onemet him in barra a few years back he was super for some company russian i think kev

R904444
7th July 2006, 20:01
I sailed as 4th Engineer on both Eurofreighter & Asiafreighter from April 1978 till January 1979. By this time due to the high fuel prices they had been converted to run on Blended Fuel Oil (BFO). This was a mixture of heavy fuel and the MGT7 (known in the aircraft industry as AVTUR) They had extra plant fitted to 'wash', homergenize and treat the fuel with an anti high temp corrosion inhibitor. It was very interesting sailing on them during this time and many of the engineers could carry out the hot section inspections and engine change outs in their sleep! As metioned in prevous posts we used sail across the pond on one engine and use the extra power to maintian scedule on the coast.

I also remember that when on watch we were constantly pumping ballast to maintain stability as they were carrying the boxes 4 high on deck.

Wee John
7th July 2006, 20:42
I sailed with I.C. on the Dunelmea, and was warned by the C/E not to mention gas turbines. I must admit I never did, so I dont Know The truth of the story but it is a good one. A few beers I have had telling the story. Just by the way, I.C. was a good Old Man on the Dunelmia

iain mac
7th July 2006, 21:32
I.C.asfar asthe deck crew was concerened stood for action man.B.J/ a steward well above his station as was his brother Niell -housewifes with balls

Ships Agent
8th July 2006, 18:53
Tom;
I was ch,mate on all 4 Seatrain ships 1974-1977 and have never heard of the
Asiafreighter(fastest of the 4) recording 43kts. Also 36 knts without 120% power
is also an exageration.
Was on board her during the famous Arsine gas incident and even running out
to the western approaches to meet up with HMS Kent for the gas freeing operation
we never got near to 36 kts.
They were also not particularly good sea ships , especially in a following sea and
stability was the mate's nightmare.
The most that can be said for the speed ia that you very rarely had a crossing
situation.

JC
I seem to remember that at one point the foremast on the asia freighter was bent towards the stern after encountering heavy seas wasn't this at the same time as the gas incident

Gulpers
9th July 2006, 00:49
The raked back foremast was due to an accident alongside in Greenock. A trainee container crane operator was lifting ‘invisible’ boxes ahead of the ship and, once he got bored with that, decided to travel up the berth. Unfortunately the crane’s boom set our foremast back about 30 degrees. A work party from Scott Lithgows made a rapid visit to the ship to re-align the foremast navigation light before we sailed.
After our Atlantic crossing we were at stations for arrival in Weehawken when the Pilot decided to let rip on the whistle. An unfortunate decision since the for'd whistle was, of course, pointing skyward. Instead of the normal resounding bellow we were treated to hiccup, gurgle, phaaart and about 45 gallons of water being coughed onto the fo’c’sle head.
The racy looking ‘go fast’ mast remained with us until we arrived in Bremerhaven later in the trip when permanent repairs were carried out.
Incidentally, I’ve no idea what became of the trainee crane driver! (Cloud)

muldonaich
9th July 2006, 02:09
bj had more balls than you will ever have and he does not have brother niell and we were all great shipmates i was born a bosun not a jumt up toe rag like you !this is a
site for real seaman not ********s! that only went to sea yesterday.can i ask what
what or where you sailed with bj were you on the s/b anchored off brevig a few years ago regards kev.

muldonaich
9th July 2006, 13:30
hi john i was on asiafreighter na mac was old man we hit a milestone in bad weather and the foremast got ripped out of the focsle deck and it was faceing the other way i forget how many boxes were lost and smashed that night it did a lot of damage to the cabins as well a night i will always remember regards kev.

Gulpers
9th July 2006, 22:15
The raked back foremast was due to an accident alongside in Greenock. A trainee container crane operator was lifting ‘invisible’ boxes ahead of the ship and, once he got bored with that, decided to travel up the berth. Unfortunately the crane’s boom set our foremast back about 30 degrees. A work party from Scott Lithgows made a rapid visit to the ship to re-align the foremast navigation light before we sailed.
After our Atlantic crossing we were at stations for arrival in Weehawken when the Pilot decided to let rip on the whistle. An unfortunate decision since the for'd whistle was, of course, pointing skyward. Instead of the normal resounding bellow we were treated to hiccup, gurgle, phaaart and about 45 gallons of water being coughed onto the fo’c’sle head.
The racy looking ‘go fast’ mast remained with us until we arrived in Bremerhaven later in the trip when permanent repairs were carried out.
Incidentally, I’ve no idea what became of the trainee crane driver! (Cloud)
Kevin,
Been pondering what I wrote earlier. On reflection, I think the raked back foremast incident I described was on Asialiner, not Asiafreighter. Does anyone else remember? (?HUH)

Hillview
10th July 2006, 12:13
Does anyone know where Neil is now.

muldonaich
11th July 2006, 08:16
i met him in barra a few years ago im sure he told me he was working as a eng super for a russian tanker company regards kev.

iain mac
11th July 2006, 15:40
32 years before the mast 22years bosun'14 trips denholm.

muldonaich
11th July 2006, 18:18
ian your only 47 what are you on ???? never heard of you in denholms what ships regards kev

iain mac
12th July 2006, 00:22
49 now.nordic talisman. scandia team.asiafreighter.dunelmia.anglia team.wellpark.loch maree .cast petrel(twice). cast tern .honshu gloria .corato .merchant principal.
merchant patriot.tfl. jefferson.northern enterprise.rocknes.rollnes.city of manchester.
_more than 14.

muldonaich
12th July 2006, 09:44
rather strange ian some of the ships you mention did not carry british ratingsregards kev.

iain mac
12th July 2006, 12:11
wasn't always a rating,started as a cadet.

muldonaich
12th July 2006, 13:40
just as i thought an ablach regards kev.

Ray F Wickman
12th July 2006, 15:59
I sailed on the Asia Freighter and Asia Liner as junior chief engineer between 1972 and 1974, three months on and six weeks off. The two Pratt & Whitney gas turbines developed 30,000 SHP each and were connected to twin screw shafts through gearbox's driving Lipps controllable pitch propellers. Fuel consumption varied but at times peaked at 380 ton per day
They had variable speed shaft alternators which were used at sea. In port there was a monster 16 cylinder Vee 1000 kW Paxman generator which were a nightmare. To run a shaft alternator in port, the fuel consumption was about 1 ton/hour.
I believe they attempted to operate with heavier oils without success.
The gas turbines were eventually removed and they were fitted with two Stork Werkspoor TM 620 medium speed diesel engines which I understand were also a work up.
The chief engineer initially had to have a combined ticket I only had a chiefs motor ticket and had to take an oral examination after studying the manuals in Denholmes offices for a few days.

muldonaich
12th July 2006, 17:54
hi ray many an engine change i did on them over the years the diesel genny on eurofreighter caught fire just off the pier in nj what a bloody mess i think these ships were 20 years at least before their time regards kev.

Tom S
23rd July 2006, 12:05
I served as Chief Officer and Master on all four of the GTV,S Asiafreighter,Asialiner,Eurofreighter and Euroliner, I have really good memories of them they were terrific ships well ahead of their time the only thin that really spoiled them was an underpowered bowthruster that was always tempremtal. What made them really special was the Denholm Crews they made the ships .
After the price of bunkers started to rise Seatrain started to interfere in a big way firstly to increase revenue they went from Three high to Four high and as has been noted earlier stability was a problem.
Then Seatrain introduced their secret weapon "Commander Mike Novac" the man who introduced big Bertha the larger than life prop for single screw operation and the Blended Fuel Oil programme what a problem that was. How the Engineers put up with that I will never know,but they did and they made it work as has been said earler they were a special kind of Engineer on these ships,they had to put up with all the problems and to top it all they had Nick Konstntis at one end and Davy Hogg at the other.
I took the Asiafreighter from her lay-up berth in the Brooklyn Navy Yard to be handed over to her new owners in Kiel it was a sad day.
My best regards to all who sailed with me.
Seatrain like Enron was a house of cards and that is why the business failed

ruud
23rd July 2006, 12:51
Ahoy Tom,

I knew a had somewhere a piccie of the Eurofreighter, so looked all over, and found her, photo was taken in May 1972,I believe outbound from Rotterdam.
The Eurofreighter was built in 1971 for Scarsdale Shipping Co.Ltd.[Denholm Ship Management Ltd.]-London-31,038 Tons.

ruud
23rd July 2006, 13:09
Ahoy Tom,

Found you the "LINER" as well, if wanted a HR is available without frames.

Tom S
23rd July 2006, 13:24
Hi ruud
Thanks for that very kind of you but I alrady have a similar one
regards
Tom

ruud
23rd July 2006, 13:48
Hi ruud
Thanks for that very kind of you but I alrady have a similar one
regards
TomAhoy Tom,
You're welcome, as you said simular, because these piccies are the one and only, in my possession, and now posted for the first time on the WWW,so in fact unique.

Andy-D
31st July 2006, 23:50
Sailed with dougie on his last trip, he was 2nd mate. no medical because of diabetes.we put him in a chopper off Brest in a force9.Dougie died in France of liver failure.RIP

John Cassels
1st August 2006, 08:24
Good day all. Just back from 4 weeks holidays with the caravan(in sunny N.Brabant) so have to catch up a little.

Ruud, your photos of the GTV's reminds me of the only time I have appeared on
Dutch television. After the gas freeing ops we went to Rotterdam for removal of
the container and the two gas bottles. Was at the bottom platform for meeting the
pilot and noticed a crowd of people on the politieboot with cameras etc.
Mother-in-law says she saw me on the journaal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Andy ; maybe I missed something but which Dougie are you talking about.

JC

muldonaich
1st August 2006, 12:05
i think hes talking about dougie naismith john regards kev.

sparkey
10th August 2006, 00:16
Great to read the reflections on time spent on these ships. I did trips as Junior R/O on the AsiaLiner, Euroliner and Eurofreighter between 1977 and 1978. They were definitely far ahead of anything else at the time, and during my time on them, satellite comms had just been installed (the writing was on the wall for R/Os even then!). The four Seatrain ships were among only 20 merchant ships worldwide at that time with satcom. Although the ships were reasonably well equipped with Marconi kit, the satcom package made much of it pretty much redundant. One of our main activities was gathering all the Navarea 1 warnings from Portishead radio, travelling at the speeds these ships did, you had to be up to scratch with all of these!
I remember the crew lift, and the fact that it seemed to bang about in the lift shaft during heavy weather! Am I correct in remembering that there were "personal" crew fridges in the alleyways, one between two cabins - luxury! The operation of the microwave ovens were a mystery then, and the great mistake was to go down to the galley after a couple of beers, and cook an egg without *****ing the yolk, only for it to explode all over the inside of the oven (only ever did that once!).

I too remember I C Graham (Action Man) and often used to arrive in the radio room for a watch to find him using the satcom package. I saw him later, on the Dunelmia (SD14?) in, I think, Abu Dhabi when I was there with one of the United Arab general cargo ships.

Happy days indeed. I'll try to dig out the few photos I have and post them also.

celsis
4th September 2006, 14:17
I remember being on a Port boat in the mid 70s at Shieldhall dock in Glasgow and we had the Asiafreighter astern of us. I went aboard to have a look at her engine room and was amazed! Lino on the plates! I almost had to pinch myself to make sure I wasn'y dreaming!

duquesa
4th September 2006, 16:52
From a pilot's manoeuvring point of view, they were a total nightmare. The poor stability issue was frequently mentioned in conversation with masters.

Tom S
4th September 2006, 22:15
Duquessa
I must disagree with your statement. I was Master and Chief Officer on all four of the GTV,s for a number of years and they are the finest ships I have ever handled sure we had problems with an uderpowered bowthruster and when we went four high stability was a problem but you must remember we had twin CP propellors.
Tom S

John Cassels
5th September 2006, 08:08
Quite correct Tom..........but remember they only had a single centreline rudder
rudder which in many respects negated the advantages of twin screw CP's.

Are you still connected with the Green Award foundation ??.

JC

Tom S
5th September 2006, 09:05
Fair point John but even with this the vessels were very manouverable. First real experience I had was when I was Chief Off with Norman Angus Macdonald who was one of the finest Shipmasters I ever came across and he was involved in the building of the vessels so he knew them like the back of his hand. We took the Eurofreighter into Baltimore without tugs or bowthruster and the ship handling was magnificent,I learned a lot that day and put it to good use a few years later during the New York Tugboat strike
Tom

John Cassels
5th September 2006, 18:30
Tom,
Just sent you a PM before I read your last post.

Norman Angus, if you read my previous posts you will also note how much I admired
the man. I learned a lot from him not just as a shipmaster but as a gentleman.
Still remember (as my youngest son was born the same day) on 10 may 1976
berthing stern first alongside Dundalk terminal Baltimore during another tug strike.
It was a joy to watch and to be a part of it.
On another note , Norman Angus would have no talk of celebration re our family
addition , but when we got back to Greenock and I was going on leave , the
Glenfiddich came out for an evening to remember. Great days fondly remembered.

JC

Tom Morton
6th September 2006, 10:59
Was this Norman Angus the same N A McD that was Captain of the Needles when she was turned over from Clyde Shipping Co to J&J and renamed Wellpark ?

Tom S
6th September 2006, 15:55
Tom
Thats the same Man
Tom S

Tom Morton
7th September 2006, 12:07
Very interesting---I sailed as first trip cadet on the Needles maiden voyage in 1958 with N A McDonald as Captain It was not a great experience , so I quit after 3 or 4 trips and Joined J&J. From that point on I had a wonderful time.

xdenholm
3rd October 2006, 15:47
anyone on eurofrieghter back in 1977/78 when she had two different size props on one big one small ,then a cowling fitted to one,experimenting with fuel consuption and speed, the asifreighter was suppose to be fitted with bigger ft6a pratts the rest ft4a,s any comment , also remember the arsine gas leaking out of asifreighter containers and royal navy told her captain to go to full speed to get out of the port then told her captain to slow down cos they ,the royal navy could not keep up with her.

John Cassels
4th October 2006, 08:07
Was Ch.mate during the gas freeing operation with HMS Kent and others
but don't remember the incident you describe.
Malcolm John was Master.

JC

xdenholm
5th October 2006, 11:02
yes jc was only on the eurofrieghter and euroliner but many whom sailed on all ships like yourself ,stories they tell!! some are good, but i know the eurofrieghter 36 knts was her normal , but 38knts she done when the sea and wind were with her thats for sure ,so yes the RN having been in it for 4yrs for a spell ,are not invincible and at the time these ships were star trek machines for there day.we overtook many a passanger ship.and many other container ships. your must have had a dirty hull jc, cos this ship done 36knts thats for sure!!

Tom S
5th October 2006, 15:05
Well I was Master and Chief off on all four GTV,s for a number of years and never achieved the speeds you speak of. Although i must correct that on one occassion I did achieve 32knots going through the Pentland Firth with wind and tide up my stern but that was only for a short period of time. 25/27Knots was the norm the Asiafreighter was the fastest as she had slightly more thrust
Tom

John Cassels
6th October 2006, 08:30
Quite correct Tom.

There has been a lot of hype on this thread about speeds of 36 (and over)
knots but my experience is the same as yours , around 30 was the norm.
36 may have been achieved but not in all the years that I was on all four.

JC

Tom S
6th October 2006, 08:51
Yes John the highest average speed was recorded by the "Asiafreighter" on the voyage she picked up the commercial Blue ribband if memory seves me correct was 31.6Knots but she did it only the once and she lost the award shortly afterwards to the "Sealand Maclean" what people must remember your speed across the Atlantic was determined by two very important facts one fuel economy and the other the vessels were on a Liner service and had to maintain a strict voyage itinery and berthing schedule. There was no use racing across the pond only to find there was no cargo waiting for you. Seatrain had a worldwide service and they all connected up with each other.The vessels design speed was 26.4Knots at 9.9m Draft
Tom

xdenholm
8th October 2006, 08:34
is that calculated speed or on ships speedo which i remember was a big rod that use to stick about five or six feet out the bottom of the hull and use to get pulled in when the ship came into port, always geeting forgotten about and getting damaged.thats what recorded the guage reading.

xdenholm
8th October 2006, 08:53
tom ,u capt of eurofrighter back in 1976 with kisinski ?as c/mate ,your tall thin, if fact in one of the denholm mags , ??jsut trying to place you. costa ?was purser?

Tom S
8th October 2006, 08:55
Thats me not so thin these days I Joined her when they fitted the large propellor ( Big Bertha) in Falmouth
Tom

Tom S
8th October 2006, 09:02
Ronnie Keir who is Chief Eng on the Queen Mary2 was there
Tom

John Cassels
9th October 2006, 08:03
All this talk about forgetting to house the chernikief is making me
nostalgic again.
John Costa was one of the regular ch.stwds.

JC

xdenholm
9th October 2006, 12:56
hi tom, i joined eurofrieghter 16th aug 1977 for 5months remember it well .it came over the radio in duty messs that elvis had died , i remember c/eng as parnell ? small man with beard an englishman releived by white ,it was his first as ch/eng seem to remember you needed your combined ticket for ch/eng on gtvs,i aso remember yourself ,a good capt, got the job done with little fuss, everything taken in your stride no problem,your in one of the denholm mags think you were getting some kind of award need to check that though. yes enjoyed sailing with you,p.s you certainly got a good memory for your age ...lol. i could not remember that the big prop was called bertha till you mention it. what was it all about?

Tom S
9th October 2006, 16:16
Not that old only just retired so still have a few grey cells left. Big Bertha was part of the heavy fuel programme you mentioned before the principle is the once you had left port and you were on the Atlantic crossing you would go down to one engine and burn heavy fuel. This meaant you only used one prop (Big Bertha) the other was allowed to run free. Big Berth was a much larger diameter prop and in theory was meant to increase the thrust giving you a much higher speed. The blended fuel oil programme was a good idea but the reason it never worked was that Seatrain never spent enough cash developing the idea and it wasnt really meant for gas turbines as they operated better at lower temperatures. With the blended fuel burning engine hours were drastically reduced before you required a changeover. If you read my earlier post I said I have the greatest respect for the engineers involved in this project they worked worked extremely hard to make this Heath Robinson affair a reality. It was really the begining of the end for the ships when I first joined in 1973 fuel oil/aviation spirit for these vessel was 30$ a tonne when I took the Asiafreighter to her new owners in 1979 it was 450$ a tonne. They were special ships I just wish I could turn the clock back. Thats me getting all maudling again.
Tom

Tom S
9th October 2006, 16:20
Just one intersesting footnote the trip Big Bertha was fitted in Falmouth was my first Command,Took her out of Drydock with this shiny new prop put the engine to slow ahead and bang we hit a submerged log put a nice little bend in one of the blades which we sorted out in Rotterdam.Most embarresing
Tom

xdenholm
9th October 2006, 18:29
yes i remember she hit that log and drydocked as you said in rotterdam, did the bow thruster not get something done to it to.?in fact i think we got a football team from us onboard and played another team,but we lost , it was a floating drydock to . tom you were in the denholm news recieveing u.s west coast port bear of oakland for seatrain sarratoga first call in port c/o was wray with you , you must have been a young captain to. nice picture in that mag. yes BFO, hot section inspection with purnell as ch/eng happy memiories, remember tom sutherland doing his cabin inspections and coming into mine ,i was in the hospital ,only cabin available,it had a bath to .i was just off watch feeling rough and tom just came in burlled and went out again with costa and co. never heard any more about it, like i said tom takes things in his stride , a good man.ps also got your signature in my old discharge book,need any cheques signed....lol

Irvingman
23rd January 2007, 12:30
If I remember correctly the Diesel Generator (on Eurofreighter) was mounted between the gas turbines and over a double bottom (oil?) storage tank. Problems varied but as the tank contents reduced with use, vibration increased leading to sheared fuel pipes. sheared manifold bolts etc.

xdenholm
23rd January 2007, 13:36
If I remember correctly the Diesel Generator (on Eurofreighter) was mounted between the gas turbines and over a double bottom (oil?) storage tank. Problems varied but as the tank contents reduced with use, vibration increased leading to sheared fuel pipes. sheared manifold bolts etc.

the single paxman was only used in port as she had two shaft alternators at sea also use to use shore power in grennock. the eurofrieghters diesel had a new crankshaft fitted just before i jioned her late 1976 early 1977.but yes vibration was a problem also sheared of the lub oil relief v/v housing which was cast aluminium and could not be repaired as a result while in savanha

muldonaich
23rd January 2007, 16:51
the single paxman was only used in port as she had two shaft alternators at sea also use to use shore power in grennock. the eurofrieghters diesel had a new crankshaft fitted just before i jioned her late 1976 early 1977.but yes vibration was a problem also sheared of the lub oil relief v/v housing which was cast aluminium and could not be repaired as a result while in savanhai remember when diesel burst into flames just off the berth in new jersey we let go co2 tugs held us in the river for a couple of hours till they were sure fire was out and we cleared the engine room of co2 what a bloody mess kev.

xdenholm
24th January 2007, 08:38
i remember when diesel burst into flames just off the berth in new jersey we let go co2 tugs held us in the river for a couple of hours till they were sure fire was out and we cleared the engine room of co2 what a bloody mess kev.yes they ships had a big co2 room to from memory red bottles wasnt it. correct me if im wrong new jersey ,you could see empire state building from there ? i remember we passed the statue of liberty with a sewage pipe running along the river streaming out sh--t everywere very tourist attractive i though at the time, the ship savanha nuclear powered cargo boat we use to pass tied up in willmington which from memory had a lot of military ships and installations nearby. if you remember kev(Thumb)

muldonaich
24th January 2007, 17:44
yes they ships had a big co2 room to from memory red bottles wasnt it. correct me if im wrong new jersey ,you could see empire state building from there ? i remember we passed the statue of liberty with a sewage pipe running along the river streaming out sh--t everywere very tourist attractive i though at the time, the ship savanha nuclear powered cargo boat we use to pass tied up in willmington which from memory had a lot of military ships and installations nearby. if you remember kev(Thumb)
savanh laid up in charlston i think do you remember when i think it was john benn ch/eng was held to ransom by one of the boats in new york till seatrain paid his bill caused a bit of a stir at the time kev.

xdenholm
25th January 2007, 09:28
savanh laid up in charlston i think do you remember when i think it was john benn ch/eng was held to ransom by one of the boats in new york till seatrain paid his bill caused a bit of a stir at the time kev.

two c/eng i remember are pirnell and white whom was an arogant ba------td, but i got my own back on him if you remember the doby m/c was outside the control room along with the tea making facilites and we use to use the polystyrene cups if you remember , of course we also used the cups for the washing powder to, when white asked me to make him a cup i used one of the ones that someone had used for the powder ,it was certainly sweet all right when he tasted it(Jester)you could say he was foaming at the mouth (Jester)served him right he was needing his mouth washed out

muldonaich
25th January 2007, 16:35
two c/eng i remember are pirnell and white whom was an arogant ba------td, but i got my own back on him if you remember the doby m/c was outside the control room along with the tea making facilites and we use to use the polystyrene cups if you remember , of course we also used the cups for the washing powder to, when white asked me to make him a cup i used one of the ones that someone had used for the powder ,it was certainly sweet all right when he tasted it(Jester)you could say he was foaming at the mouth (Jester)served him right he was needing his mouth washed outsailed with them both im still LOL kev

John Cassels
26th January 2007, 19:16
two c/eng i remember are pirnell and white whom was an arogant ba------td, but i got my own back on him if you remember the doby m/c was outside the control room along with the tea making facilites and we use to use the polystyrene cups if you remember , of course we also used the cups for the washing powder to, when white asked me to make him a cup i used one of the ones that someone had used for the powder ,it was certainly sweet all right when he tasted it(Jester)you could say he was foaming at the mouth (Jester)served him right he was needing his mouth washed out

Have been away for a week so have not seen this thread until now.

x-denholm , you are following into the same track as your compatriot
SJC. If you feel it necessary to abuse someone ( in this case John White)
please do this via PM and not on open forum.

By the way , it was Weehauken and not NJ.

JC

xdenholm
28th January 2007, 08:51
you must have been missing your FIX jc all that time of SN.weehauken is in new jersey jc,.cheers.i did forget the name of that place but have have a picture in my mind of it there was large jagged posts from an old jetty sticking out next to and no to far off the ship to. as far as abusing anyone jc could be he was the real abuser ,but point taken cheers

xdenholm
8th February 2007, 11:19
tom s or JC or anyone, when on the GTV,S you hear many stories,bearing in mind first trip to sea you understand. one from memory ,the ships had and owners cabin did it not?,which may have been better than the captains.? did robert redford sail on any as a passanger 76/77 and does anyone remember if any other celebs sailed on them ,or is the story ,for my grandchildren one for the bin?(Thumb) other names i remember kisinski c/o, costa c.stwd, colin 2/eng,ronnie kerr 3/eng, dave 3/eng smoked ciggs using a long holder reddish hair,black bob 3/eng, remember we all took or e.r. boots off while going into the accomidation ,welll black bob use to do the same but his socks were worse than his e.r boots and you could follow them all the way back to his cabin,jeff, or jeffers as dave used to call him x RN man again 3/eng. also john the cook whom went to the new wellpark.does anyone remember the 3/eng think he came from greenock or gourock had a small yatch, ,was it ronnie or bob or something ?lastly have we all got our seiko watches that the gent use to come down to the ship in rotterdam was it? p.s all great guys to sail with,if anyone can put second names to some to jog my memory back some(Thumb) and yours of course.

Tom S
8th February 2007, 15:01
I think that us another one for the bin. The ships had really fantastic Owners Accomodation and from time to time we did carry fairly important passengers but no celebs that I know of, Remember all the names you mention. Black Bob(Rab Fraser) died of a heart attack in Spain last year his funeral was in Leith. Dave Wood was the 3/E
Tom

muldonaich
8th February 2007, 16:43
sorry to hear about black bob ,bill tennant did a tv programme about these ships when they first came out think it was on euroliner there must be a tape around somewhere cant remember what channel he worked for or was he independent regards kev.

Tom S
8th February 2007, 18:32
You have a good memory Kev It was the Euroliner Bill Tennant worked for STV at the time and they did a trip around the coast from Rotterdam to greenock it was in the winter and it was freezing
Tom

muldonaich
8th February 2007, 21:15
You have a good memory Kev It was the Euroliner Bill Tennant worked for STV at the time and they did a trip around the coast from Rotterdam to greenock it was in the winter and it was freezing
Tomthanks tom i must try and get a copy can you remember who was old man?? kev.

Tom S
8th February 2007, 21:54
Captain Bill Williamson (Ruppy) he was quite a character used to be MD of a Shipping Company that went bust and came back to sea late in life.
Tom

muldonaich
8th February 2007, 22:12
Captain Bill Williamson (Ruppy) he was quite a character used to be MD of a Shipping Company that went bust and came back to sea late in life.
Tomnice old man i sailed with him a few times put him ashore i think it was brixham minds getting foggy also put a mate ashore there of eurofreighter called jim soley think thats the way you spell it seemingly he had been bleeding inside for a couple of weeks we heard he was ok but never heard of him after that nice guy will remember at some point the name of ruppys company regards kev.

randcmackenzie
8th February 2007, 22:23
Ruppy worked for Trader Navigation, a division of Cargill, in their london office.

When they put their ships under Denholm management (Sussex Trader etc) Ruppy went back to sea, first of all on Malta Cross, then finally on the Seatrain ships.

Among the names I recall 2/E Colin Booth, C/S John Costa, and C/O Jan Kuszynski whom I never met.

Black Bob was indeed Rab Fraser, who later went to Northern Marine, quite a character and a great cartoon artist.

Master I remember NA MacDonald of course, Bob Sharp, Dougie Naismith, who could forget them, Ruppy and George Mayne.

Chiefs Big Bobby Greenow, Bob the bed Whigham, Dave Hogg, Iain Ross and Willie Purnell. I could go on, maybe tomorrow.

muldonaich
8th February 2007, 22:32
Ruppy worked for Trader Navigation, a division of Cargill, in their london office.

When they put their ships under Denholm management (Sussex Trader etc) Ruppy went back to sea, first of all on Malta Cross, then finally on the Seatrain ships.

Among the names I recall 2/E Colin Booth, C/S John Costa, and C/O Jan Kuszynski whom I never met.

Black Bob was indeed Rab Fraser, who later went to Northern Marine, quite a character and a great cartoon artist.

Master I remember NA MacDonald of course, Bob Sharp, Dougie Naismith, who could forget them, Ruppy and George Mayne.

Chiefs Big Bobby Greenow, Bob the bed Whigham, Dave Hogg, Iain Ross and Willie Purnell. I could go on, maybe tomorrow.thats right roddy the funnel on these ships had a t on it wth th ends turned down to a point kev.
ps dont forget allan blackwood c/eng

John Cassels
9th February 2007, 08:30
Roddie;

And I.C. "superman" Graham , Ian Donaldson.
Chengs ; Mick MacManus , Dick Stevenette , Sandy ( still can't remember
his last name).
Sailed with Colin Booth on the Cast Puffin . John Costa on the Trollpark and
and Clarkeden.

JC

Gulpers
9th February 2007, 08:58
Some more names from the past:

Harry Grainger 2/E, Howard ? ECO, Dennis Thompson C/O, Davy Agnew 2/O, Willie Thorburn C/E, Fergie Miller 2/O, Neil Smart 3/E and I'll never forget a Junior Sparky on Asialiner "Benjamin P Pluck" - honestly!
Did Frank Brown C/O sail on the GTVs?
I certainly sailed with him on Vancouver Forest after her conversion to container ship. (Thumb)

Tom S
9th February 2007, 09:05
John
Sandy Gray he is in Aussie now
Tom

Tom S
9th February 2007, 09:15
Jack McEwen c/o Jackie Davidson2/o Bill Chalmers 2/0 there was a c/o from Belfast Bernie Frieze? Lenny Bell, John Gatherer, Alan Paterson who later came ashore and took Peter Sommervilles job at Seatrain in Greenock, and there were the regular ECO,s I cant remember all their name and the regular CPO,s like Angus McCaskill and of course no list would be complete unless you included Sam the Waterman at Greenock he was involved in everything
Tom

John Cassels
9th February 2007, 15:16
Tom , You're correct , Sandy Gray.

Always remember he was always moaning about losing weight , used to eat
only a salad at lunch , complaining it didn't seem to do any good. Then go
into the bar before dinner and consume a few pints ????????????????/.

What is he doing in Aussie , do you know.

JC

John Cassels
9th February 2007, 15:19
Peter sommerville ( also an old school buddy) retired from Clyde ports
in August last year. Is of next month on a cruise thro the Panama Canal
as a 60th. birthday present to himself and Delia.

JC

xdenholm
9th February 2007, 16:08
Peter sommerville ( also an old school buddy) retired from Clyde ports
in August last year. Is of next month on a cruise thro the Panama Canal
as a 60th. birthday present to himself and Delia.

JC
jc you mentioned clyde ports does your friend know scott or ewan jameison of clyde ports whon i believe is M.D, though i havent seen them for about 5yrs ,now that their father moved way down south england(Thumb)

Tom S
9th February 2007, 16:11
I remember Peter and John KcKinnon well. John retired early due to heart problems
Tom

xdenholm
9th February 2007, 16:21
big thank you tom s and muldonaich and all ,thats the missing names booth ,wood ,fraser,etc which i,m deeply shocked at hearing about the tradegy. now you have really brought back the nostalgia for me and some happy memories of all on those ships. tom s do you ever remember of a ,they said arab e.r. .po, though he looked more indian with greying hair i think they called him ali but not to sure another story told by mr fraser was that he took fire axe to someone and the captain paid him off, you were the captain of course because i was there any recolection of the incident if any,there were some good story tellers on there you know, but i know the po was there one minute gone the next with no relief.

muldonaich
9th February 2007, 18:01
Jack McEwen c/o Jackie Davidson2/o Bill Chalmers 2/0 there was a c/o from Belfast Bernie Frieze? Lenny Bell, John Gatherer, Alan Paterson who later came ashore and took Peter Sommervilles job at Seatrain in Greenock, and there were the regular ECO,s I cant remember all their name and the regular CPO,s like Angus McCaskill and of course no list would be complete unless you included Sam the Waterman at Greenock he was involved in everything
Tom
hi tom angus passed away a couple of weeks ago and was laid to rest in eriskay kev.

Tom S
9th February 2007, 19:43
Hi Hev
I am really sorry to hear about Angus he was a good man of the old school really proud of his ship I had a lot of time for him. If my memory serves me right I also had his nephew sailing with me as GP?
tom

muldonaich
9th February 2007, 20:50
Hi Hev
I am really sorry to hear about Angus he was a good man of the old school really proud of his ship I had a lot of time for him. If my memory serves me right I also had his nephew sailing with me as GP?
tom
yes a good man he will be sadly missed not only by his family but all who sailed with him sorry tom i did not know his nephew but if he was related to angus he would have been a good lad kev.

Dick S
10th February 2007, 19:04
Hi, just joined, I was 3rd Mate on the Asialiner for ayear. Tom S was Captain(I think!) Bernie Frieze was Mate ( I was with him on a seateam boat when he was 2/mate and from Belfast) other names I forget but remember father and son passengers who intended to tour UK on mopeds!
Also the I remebr the Beer being pretty good on board, especially over a New Year "holiday" we had in Greenock.

Dick

Gulpers
10th February 2007, 23:34
Dick,

A warm welcome to the site from Anglesey.
I guarantee you will thoroughly enjoy the SN experience!
You will certainly spark many happy memories when you have a chance to explore our threads.
Coincidentally, I am ex Asialiner, sailed with Tom S on Seatrain Saratoga and am also a member of HMCG! (Thumb)

R904444
12th February 2007, 23:25
I saw this thread and remembered a few names from my two trips on Asiafreighter paid off Jan 79 just before lay up.

The attached photo taken at Xmas 78 shows Neil Smart 3/E, Tom O'Donovan C/E, Bernie Frieze C/O Kevin Dowdall JC/E with his wife.

Other people I remember on board at the time were N A Macdonald captain, I Gillies C/Stwd, Big Albert the Cook Mike Mullen 3/E, Ronnie ---- 3/E from Troon, Alan ----- 4/E, John who played the moothie GP1, Matt ---- was another GP1. Does anybody out there remember who else was on this trip.

I was 4/E.

Andy McArthur

xdenholm
18th February 2007, 09:26
I think that us another one for the bin. The ships had really fantastic Owners Accomodation and from time to time we did carry fairly important passengers but no celebs that I know of, Remember all the names you mention. Black Bob(Rab Fraser) died of a heart attack in Spain last year his funeral was in Leith. Dave Wood was the 3/E
Tom
funny story,for any that knew or nows dave wood(professional) 3/eng ,and i dont know where he is now?1st trip to sea you understand ,i was on watch with dave,mostly serious man, slighlty funny,no messing, anyway sea water pump to overhall with dave located on fwd bulkhead, motor above tread plate pump below, but you could dangle your legs over and work on the pump, v/vs closed slight leak of sea water passing valve, nothing though.there was a wooden plug in side of volute casing which, via copper pipe lead to bottom bearing, missing, long story short when we eventually put the pump toghether i thought the wooden bunk was to go back in the hole in the side of the pump casing so put it in, latter dave seen it said no we are to fix that, so got down ,his feet dangling over the tread plates and knocked the wooden bung out, only the pump had filled up with sea water didnt it, you should have heard dave scream!! ya f--king ba--d (Jester) as the water gushed out all over him at the front.i ran away up to the control room ,not because i was scared but i could not stop from laughing (Jester) dave being the man he was , and i good guy to, he came up ,my f---king pants are soakin he said i burst out laughing again(Jester) and he did get me back comming into weehawkin but thats another story.(Thumb)

John Cassels
18th February 2007, 18:30
funny story,for any that knew or nows dave wood(professional) 3/eng ,and i dont know where he is now?1st trip to sea you understand ,i was on watch with dave,mostly serious man, slighlty funny,no messing, anyway sea water pump to overhall with dave located on fwd bulkhead, motor above tread plate pump below, but you could dangle your legs over and work on the pump, v/vs closed slight leak of sea water passing valve, nothing though.there was a wooden plug in side of volute casing which, via copper pipe lead to bottom bearing, missing, long story short when we eventually put the pump toghether i thought the wooden bunk was to go back in the hole in the side of the pump casing so put it in, latter dave seen it said no we are to fix that, so got down ,his feet dangling over the tread plates and knocked the wooden bung out, only the pump had filled up with sea water didnt it, you should have heard dave scream!! ya f--king ba--d (Jester) as the water gushed out all over him at the front.i ran away up to the control room ,not because i was scared but i could not stop from laughing (Jester) dave being the man he was , and i good guy to, he came up ,my f---king pants are soakin he said i burst out laughing again(Jester) and he did get me back comming into weehawkin but thats another story.(Thumb)


Wonderfool stori , reely wonerfool.

JC

Tom S
18th February 2007, 18:31
What was the name of the 2nd Mate we had on the Container Ships who was studying for his BSC and his thesis was on raindrops? I remember he used to appear everytime it rained and caught raindrops measured the size and density of them. I believe he went on to do a Phd and became a lecturer at Southampton Uni?
TomS

xdenholm
16th March 2007, 20:27
does anyone, especially tom s, remember the electrician whom was electricuted behind the switchboard on a GTV, think it was the eurofrieghter, they had to shut down the plant to get him off the busbar..... shocking story(Thumb)

ostfriese
14th April 2007, 11:14
May I introduce myself first: I was responsible as object leader for the four gasturbine driven Eurofreighter-Class ships and I took them all out as chief-engineer on sea trials. I found this page by sitting in a hotel room in Nikolajew in the Ukraine as a retired “Nordseewerke” man out of Emden, where we built these ships. I am here to set up a supervising team for a multipurpose vessel of 12000 tdw for a friend of mine, who bought a half ready ship here at the Damen-Akeryard Okean. So after working hours I surfed in the internet and found a trace of your web side searching for four ships I had as chief of a supervisor team in Japan 30 Years ago. These ships, starting with the “Seatrain Independence” had the same charter company as the Euroliner Class.
I remember a lot of funny stories of the Euroliner and her sister ships. One story about a captain and a torch mentioned here still bring also now a smile to my face. It happened in 1971, when one of the fire brigade on one of these ships told me to phone my secretary. I did and she told me, that I had to fly to Rotterdam together with the head of the Denholms Supervisor Team, Reginald Clark and David Hogg, the Chief engineer of the next vessel. So I stopped working, rushed home to get some money and my passport and took a taxi to the “Emden Airport”. There I heard about a guarantee claim against the shipyard because there was a design error in the draining system of the plenum-chambers, the air intakes of the gasturbine. And David Hogg told me the story that the vacuum sucks the bilge water through the drains into the air intakes because of the lack of none return valves. I replied that this small vacuum would never be able to suck the water 3 meters high and I guessed the old problem, washing the deckshouse without any warning to the engine room. We arrived in rotterdam and finally also on board of the ship where Reginald ask me to wait in owners lounge and pour me a drink because they wanted to have a short interview with the chief engineer first, before we would start to discuss the serious guarantee claim. Owners lounge was on the same deck as the chiefs cabins below the bridge on portside. So I went to the ice cube generator, which I always took in service beginning the seatrials, and I poured me a Gin Tonic. I sat down at the big round table and found the note book of the chief engineer with his notice what happened with the gasturbine. I quickly noted all facts and finished it just when eginald came in and invited me to the chiefs living room. Before even Reginald could start the discussion I Told him that I had a dream. “It happened on the last trip that the decks crew started to hose the house down. From monkey island then tons of water where falling into the air intakes and the demisters could not take the complete water out of the air and so down below the compressor of one of the gasturbines started to salt up. Now the fuel control tried to keep up the speed of the free turbine and the engine started to overheat and the sensor TT7 in front of the free turbine gave alarm. The crew pushed the shut down button and investigated the case. Than the crew started to wash the engine with distillate while cranking the engine on the starter. Now the poor Old Man, who was very interested in the work of the engineers came into the picture! He had a look himself into the plenum chamber and by accident his good old “Nordseewerke torch” felt down against his knee and then entered the compressor of the gasturbine. The crew had to stop the procedure and tried to get the parts of the torch out of the compressor again but failed with one battery, which was stuck in 9 th stage of the compressor.” They all looked at me like the saw a ghost and then I told the story about the notebook of the Chief in owners lounge. “So I have nothing to do anymore here and I will count this nice trip to Rotterdam as a extra vacation day and will leave now for Emden” .
Suddenly also David Hogg said, that he would come with me. He had the right smell in his nose. I planned to stay a night in Rotterdam in a different hotel to see all the funny places I knew since my time at sea. So we had a long evening and managed a train to Emden the next day ending up in the “Bei Evi” bar in Emden for our last beer that trip.

muldonaich
14th April 2007, 13:55
May I introduce myself first: I was responsible as object leader for the four gasturbine driven Eurofreighter-Class ships and I took them all out as chief-engineer on sea trials. I found this page by sitting in a hotel room in Nikolajew in the Ukraine as a retired “Nordseewerke” man out of Emden, where we built these ships. I am here to set up a supervising team for a multipurpose vessel of 12000 tdw for a friend of mine, who bought a half ready ship here at the Damen-Akeryard Okean. So after working hours I surfed in the internet and found a trace of your web side searching for four ships I had as chief of a supervisor team in Japan 30 Years ago. These ships, starting with the “Seatrain Independence” had the same charter company as the Euroliner Class.
I remember a lot of funny stories of the Euroliner and her sister ships. One story about a captain and a torch mentioned here still bring also now a smile to my face. It happened in 1971, when one of the fire brigade on one of these ships told me to phone my secretary. I did and she told me, that I had to fly to Rotterdam together with the head of the Denholms Supervisor Team, Reginald Clark and David Hogg, the Chief engineer of the next vessel. So I stopped working, rushed home to get some money and my passport and took a taxi to the “Emden Airport”. There I heard about a guarantee claim against the shipyard because there was a design error in the draining system of the plenum-chambers, the air intakes of the gasturbine. And David Hogg told me the story that the vacuum sucks the bilge water through the drains into the air intakes because of the lack of none return valves. I replied that this small vacuum would never be able to suck the water 3 meters high and I guessed the old problem, washing the deckshouse without any warning to the engine room. We arrived in rotterdam and finally also on board of the ship where Reginald ask me to wait in owners lounge and pour me a drink because they wanted to have a short interview with the chief engineer first, before we would start to discuss the serious guarantee claim. Owners lounge was on the same deck as the chiefs cabins below the bridge on portside. So I went to the ice cube generator, which I always took in service beginning the seatrials, and I poured me a Gin Tonic. I sat down at the big round table and found the note book of the chief engineer with his notice what happened with the gasturbine. I quickly noted all facts and finished it just when eginald came in and invited me to the chiefs living room. Before even Reginald could start the discussion I Told him that I had a dream. “It happened on the last trip that the decks crew started to hose the house down. From monkey island then tons of water where falling into the air intakes and the demisters could not take the complete water out of the air and so down below the compressor of one of the gasturbines started to salt up. Now the fuel control tried to keep up the speed of the free turbine and the engine started to overheat and the sensor TT7 in front of the free turbine gave alarm. The crew pushed the shut down button and investigated the case. Than the crew started to wash the engine with distillate while cranking the engine on the starter. Now the poor Old Man, who was very interested in the work of the engineers came into the picture! He had a look himself into the plenum chamber and by accident his good old “Nordseewerke torch” felt down against his knee and then entered the compressor of the gasturbine. The crew had to stop the procedure and tried to get the parts of the torch out of the compressor again but failed with one battery, which was stuck in 9 th stage of the compressor.” They all looked at me like the saw a ghost and then I told the story about the notebook of the Chief in owners lounge. “So I have nothing to do anymore here and I will count this nice trip to Rotterdam as a extra vacation day and will leave now for Emden” .
Suddenly also David Hogg said, that he would come with me. He had the right smell in his nose. I planned to stay a night in Rotterdam in a different hotel to see all the funny places I knew since my time at sea. So we had a long evening and managed a train to Emden the next day ending up in the “Bei Evi” bar in Emden for our last beer that trip.i remember you like it was yesterday but was reg clark not the seatrain naval arcitect for those ships im sure he was

Tom S
14th April 2007, 14:29
ostfriese I also remember that account of IC Graham,s unfortunate accident I think it has now become a Denholm Legend. Were you not the same gentleman who introduced Captain N.A.Macdonald to the Mercedes factory where he had his Mercedes custom built and supervised by himself during the building of the Eurofreighter???
TomS

randcmackenzie
14th April 2007, 23:10
Ostfriese,

By the time I got to Emden to standby Asiafreighter, your trip to Rotterdam with Davie Hogg had become legendary.

I remember Evi's very well, plus a few others - Rio Rita, Herrentor, Adler to name but a few.
Is it still in business, and is 'Queen Evi' still alive?
Her birthday was of national German importance - flowers everywhere and free beer for the customers.

I seem to remember you were a large man - is your name Scultz or Horst or something like that?

From the Rheinstahl yard I remember Batterman, his shadow the chief Schlosser (Theo?) and the schlussel major, but his name is also gone.

I was on Asiafreighter for the trials, empty ship. Her best run was about 32.3 knots, balls to the wall on the GGs.

Great days, great ships for their time, and in many ways far ahead of their time.


Best regards from Scotland.

muldonaich
15th April 2007, 16:48
ostfriese I also remember that account of IC Graham,s unfortunate accident I think it has now become a Denholm Legend. Were you not the same gentleman who introduced Captain N.A.Macdonald to the Mercedes factory where he had his Mercedes custom built and supervised by himself during the building of the Eurofreighter???
TomShi tom i was with norman angus the day he collected the merc it is still going in stornoway a lad related to him was down testing our central heating he told me he has it now and still runs like a sewing machine.regards kev.

Tom S
15th April 2007, 17:00
Kev
Sadly he died a while ago and I didnt know what happened to it. It would be a fair age by now.He used to keep me entertained with the story about it,it was his pride and joy
Tom

John Cassels
16th April 2007, 08:19
Ah , Norman Angus , the Master I most respected.
He also built his own boat while on the Naess Cavalier around '63 ,about a year I sailed with him on her.

JC

muldonaich
16th April 2007, 10:12
Ah , Norman Angus , the Master I most respected.
He also built his own boat while on the Naess Cavalier around '63 ,about a year I sailed with him on her.

JCthat boat is still going to in the western isles john regards kev.

ostfriese
17th April 2007, 21:55
i remember you like it was yesterday but was reg clark not the seatrain naval arcitect for those ships im sure he was

Yes, he was that Naval architekt but in fact he was the one he presents the owner and that was that funny New York based Seatrain Line..

muldonaich
17th April 2007, 23:00
yes thats right they did a programe a few years back on seatrain on the tv it looks like they were a money laundry for the mafia in the end or mabye always were who knows anything goes in america companies just look at enron etc etc regards kev.

John Cassels
18th April 2007, 08:04
yes thats right they did a programe a few years back on seatrain on the tv it looks like they were a money laundry for the mafia in the end or mabye always were who knows anything goes in america companies just look at enron etc etc regards kev.



Thought my 3 years sailing on all 4 were the most interesting times.
Not only the ships themselves , but the Seatrain people themselves.
Can only remember a few names now ; John..... in Weehauken the ops
man, Chuck Dunlap in Savannah. Can still see the faces of others in
Baltimore,Norfolk and Willmington but names have escaped me.
Did wew not carry quite a few class 7 (radioaactive) boxes ex NY, ( Tom ,
maybe you can help me out here ).

JC

Tom S
18th April 2007, 08:48
John
You are correct we often carried Class 7 Boxes between NY and Le Havre had a problem with them once or twice. I dont think they would get away with it these days.
Gregg Himoff Marine Ops Director,Capt Van Geyzel Marine Super and his Son Gerry was the Bunker Controller, Commander Mike Novak Engineering Director. Of course Nick Konstantis the Excitable Engineer there was another Engineer Big Dave cant remember his last name but he was a really nice guy.
Piet Ton the European Director in Rotterdam the memory is fading a bit I will have a think and see if I can come up with some more names.
Tom

Tom S
18th April 2007, 08:57
Kev
Seatrain were owned by the Cahn family they started off in the Mid West of the States as Furriers and got into the Transport business at the turn of the Century they made quite a good go of it and had Container Ships and Tankers. By the time Denholms got involved Joseph Cahn was the President of the Company and he adopted the policy of Leasing,everything was leased and they got themselves heavily in Debt with the Chase Manhatten Bank that is when the Longshoremans Union which is Mafia controlled got their fingers into the pie and it all went downhill from there on. They offered me a job in the States I am glad I didnt take it now. Its a pity because as John said they were great ships and great people on the ships I really enjoyed them.
Tom

John Cassels
18th April 2007, 09:31
Tom , you took the words right out of my mouth regarding class 7 boxes as am quite sure they wouldn't get away with it these days. In retrospect , even in those days it was chancy. As mate , I don't remember ever getting
a copy of the readings when they were loaded ( always underdeck just abaft
the ER bulkhead). None of the rigmarole nowadays concerning class 7.

Yes , of course Mike Novak. There was also a guy who used to appear when
there was any damages to cntrs or cargo. Looked as if he had just come
from the set of the Godfather. Remember piet ton and his assistent John....
Greenock there was Jim Haig and Peter Somerville ( still keep in touch with
Peter , just retired from Clydeport) . Can still remember the faces , but no
names in Le Havre and Bremerhaven.

Yes Tom . they were special days . A pity they are long gone. There will
never be ships like those again , or the people associated with them.

JC

muldonaich
18th April 2007, 09:52
hi tom there was two familys involved what happened to the pack crowd when we took out hopepark she was owened by pack and cahn big pk on the funnel they also owned some fly by nite tanker chartering company named something like tocarphilly do you know anything about in south america i think it was norman cahn or one of them was shot outside his house going to work his nephew was president of the chase manhattan bank iremember he came alongside in his massive cabin cruiser norman angus went on board and talked about it for weeks as he said pure luxury regards kev.

Tom S
18th April 2007, 10:28
Kev
You are correct the Pack familly were involved but on the Seatrain side it was mainly the Cahn family who controlled the Company. I got taken out for a meal with them once I never knew that kind of world existed there was no expense spared
Tom

Tom S
18th April 2007, 10:38
John
I cant remember the names of the Bremerhaven people the Manager was a Scotsman he had been to sea and knew a lot of people I knew he married a German girl and moved to Bremerhaven and loved it there. He was quite a dour character. The operations fellow was a nice guy and again I cant remember his name but he had been involved in a bad accident on the the terminal drove under a straddle carrier and had the top of his car and his head taken off,nasty.
Alan Paterson who was Mate with the Company took peters job at Greenock and wee Jock mcVicar took over the agency.The other people I remember most were Ryan O`Hare Director Group Three, David Livingstone?Olaf Olsen Ship Managers and Davy Hogg/John Livingstone Engineering Supers and John McIntyre Cat Supt
Tom

Tom S
18th April 2007, 11:05
John
You got me thinking here are some names from the past.
Joe Bendix Farboil Paints Baltimore
Seatrain Bremerhaven Cat Uwe Krock and the other fellow was called Rogge
Seatrain Rotterdam Gerry Van Der Bent and Franz Jol
Denholm Supt New York Derek Boardman
Seatrain Charleston Chuck Dunlap and Llyod Syre
Seatrain Greenock John Hodgkinson
Seatrain Wilmington Becky Pennington
John Cooke Agent in Charleston
And One for the Engineers John Campbell Kintyre Marine Services
Tom

muldonaich
18th April 2007, 11:56
hi tom something sticks at the back of my mind that one of the ships i think it was seatrain texas was famous for something during the 2nd world war can you shed any light on that kev.

Tom S
18th April 2007, 12:23
Hi Kev
This is what your looking for
To command the lead ship in the class, Vice Admiral William M. Callaghan selected perhaps the best known master in MSTS at that time, Captain Kenneth G. Towne. As the master of the SS Seatrain Texas in the Second World War, he shuttled the initial tanks of the Army's 1st Armored Division from the U.S. to the United Kingdom in early 1942.

In that summer, with German General Erwin Rommel pushing the British Eighth Army back toward the crucial Suez Canal, Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army General George C. Marshall offered them the use of the 2nd Armored Division. In desperate need of replacement tanks and material, the British asked that the Americans ship them to Egypt via the Cape of Good Hope, to avoid German aircraft and U-boats in the contested Mediterranean Sea.

In July 1942, Convoy AS-4 departed from New York with six ships but a submarine sank SS Fairport of Waterman Steamship Company, loaded with tanks. Marshall hurriedly made an additional 250 tanks available and SS Seatrain Texas sailed the end of the month, without an escort, to catch up with the convoy. She completed the voyage in one month and five days and her cargo proved crucial to the Allied victory at El Alamein.

In December 1951, Towne took command of USNS Barrett and both the ship and captain proved themselves when they came to the assistance of the freighter SS President Pierce, rocked by flames and explosions in one of its holds.
Try this link it gives a bit more info http://www.usmm.org/seatraintexas.html
Tom

muldonaich
18th April 2007, 13:27
thanks for the info tom regards kev.

ostfriese
12th May 2007, 00:07
My name is Johann :-)

Ostfriese,

By the time I got to Emden to standby Asiafreighter, your trip to Rotterdam with Davie Hogg had become legendary.

I remember Evi's very well, plus a few others - Rio Rita, Herrentor, Adler to name but a few.
Is it still in business, and is 'Queen Evi' still alive?
Her birthday was of national German importance - flowers everywhere and free beer for the customers.

I seem to remember you were a large man - is your name Scultz or Horst or something like that?

From the Rheinstahl yard I remember Batterman, his shadow the chief Schlosser (Theo?) and the schlussel major, but his name is also gone.

I was on Asiafreighter for the trials, empty ship. Her best run was about 32.3 knots, balls to the wall on the GGs.

Great days, great ships for their time, and in many ways far ahead of their time.


Best regards from Scotland.

John Graham
7th June 2007, 14:54
Hello, my father is I.C.Graham (Actionman) as mentioned above. And your right, the torch incident is one he would rather forget. He is now retired, and living in Surrey. Regading the speed of the GTV's, 43 knots does sound somewhta on the high side. 33kts in a good tide might be more accurate. I sailed on all of them except the Eurofrieghter. I am very sad to hear about Rab Fraser. Though when I sailed with him on the Brittania Team, his nickname there was sinply 'Blackfoot'. He was indeed a real character. Another name from the early days of the GTV's was Wally Rolland (3rd Eng)- Another larger than life personality. I also recognice the name of Dick Stevenette. I sailed with him on the Nordic Patriot. I'm just wondering if anyone knows what became of an engineer called Jerry Deeney? I sailed with him on the Brittania Team, and the Dahlma. I know he made it to Chief, and may even have become a superintendent engineer

Tom S
7th June 2007, 15:04
John
Nice to have you onboard met you with your Dad once glad he is doing well and living in Surrey always wondered what happened to him after he left Kilmaclom
Please be kind enough to pass on my regards to him
TomS

John Graham
7th June 2007, 15:06
Just out of interest. my father was the skipper on the Asiafrieghter when it had the Arsine gas incident. It all started on his birthday (15/11/1972). Don't think it is one of his happier memories.

John Graham
7th June 2007, 15:55
Tom S

What is your full name so I can pass it on to my Father?

Tom S
7th June 2007, 16:15
John
I have sent you a PM
TomS

randcmackenzie
7th June 2007, 23:24
Just out of interest. my father was the skipper on the Asiafrieghter when it had the Arsine gas incident. It all started on his birthday (15/11/1972). Don't think it is one of his happier memories.

It's not one of mine either, but I survived without blemish.

I remember you and your mother on the Euro boats though I can't remember which one.

Please give your father my best regards, my name is Roddie MacKenzie.

Wally Roland's claim to fame, or one of them, was that he is reputed to have built a coffee table in the aft store, which proved too large to come out the door.

What of James Ignatius O'shea - a Ricky Fulton look alike, anyone remember him.

Big George from Kyle is still bosun with MacBraynes, and I have heard of various others here and there.

Jerry Deeney did indeed become Chief and Superintendent with Denholm, but I haven't heard of him for years.

Muldonaich will probably chime in with a few others.

John Graham
8th June 2007, 11:29
Randcmckenzie

Thanks for that. Have passed this onto my dad. Your name does ring a bell or two. I also remember Big George. The sight of him having to stoop to walk inside the accomadation was not something easily forgotten. He couldn't have been far off 7ft tall, but he was a gentle giant.

I can also remember Wally Rolland recalling when he was young, his folks weren't very well off. In fact they were so poor, his mother used to steal coal from the train trucks. One day she and another lady were filling up their scuttles when Wally's dad came along. He saw his wife and the other lady in the coal truck. He decided to play a wee trick on her. He shouted out as if he was a security man. His wife got such a fright she jumped from the truck, but her skirt got caught on the side of the truck. She apparently ran all the way home in her stocking and suspenders carrying a coal scuttle. From what Wally told us, his dad was in the doghouse for quite some time after that.

Regards

John Graham
8th June 2007, 11:49
One guy that simply cannot go without a mention is Barra John Galbraith. I first met John in 1963 on the Arisaig. The last time I saw him would have been around 1975 on one of the GTV's. Anyone know what has become of him? When the GTV's used to dock in Weehawken, they used to line the ship's bridge up with his name, which was painted in large letters on the quayside.

John Cassels
8th June 2007, 19:26
Barra John is alive and still kicking.

Regarding the Arsine gas incident. This was in 1975. I joined as mate for
the gas freeing op. Malcolm John was Master and we had the company of
HMS Kent for the duration. As far as I remember there were only about 14
of us on board - no GP's only offs.. Interesting time . Anyone else remember ???.

eigyro
17th July 2007, 23:33
Glad to hear Capt Graham was OK after the gas incident. I did one lap of the
pond as Jnr R/O with him on Asiafreighter earlier that year. Pleasant guy.

I remember Dick Stevenette, C/Eng and custodian of the porn projector.
James Ignatius O'Shea rings a bell also.

I definitely remember 36kts round the top. Also we did a close pass by
Asialiner mid-atlantic which was impressive.

Graham M
3rd October 2007, 11:01
Hi to all the Gts boys I was 2/0 Maidian voyage on Euroliner March 1971
I.C. Graham Dougie Naismith Ian Ross these are the names I remember
I have not worked out who Muldonaich is Except that you live in Stornoway ,
A place I visit on a regular basis I will be there for a week on 13th. October.
RandcMackenzie you were Sen cadet Crinan when I did my first trip Jan 1963
regards Graham

Gulpers
3rd October 2007, 11:26
Graham,

A warm welcome to the site from the Isle of Anglesey!
I see you have been a member for some time and I hope you are thoroughly enjoying the SN experience.
Now that you've taken the plunge, keep posting. (Thumb)

You've got the wrong neck of the woods for muldonaich, he's not from Stornoway. I'll let Kev contact you himself by PM with his whereabouts! (==D)

Graham M
4th October 2007, 09:34
Thanks for the welcome.
I have found out where Kevin lives now , cheers !

Jim ECO
25th January 2008, 13:37
I stumbled on to this site today and found it very interesting. I joined Eurofreighter around April '74 and sailed on all 4 GTVs for the next 5 years. Was shocked to hear of Rab Fraser's recent death. He was the most knowledgable person wrt the GTVs and a great person to sail with.

Jim Blane ECO

Gulpers
25th January 2008, 14:45
Jim,

A warm welcome to the site from the Isle of Anglesey, I guarantee you will thoroughly enjoy the SN experience!
You will certainly spark many happy memories when you have a chance to explore our threads and, who knows, since there are plenty of ex Denholm members, you may even re-establish contact with old shipmates.
Good luck! (Thumb)

Tom S
25th January 2008, 15:25
Welcome to the site Jim remember you from the GTV,s
TomS

Harry Grainger
8th February 2008, 23:04
Tom S, and that can be only be one Person, when are you going to arrange a GTV reunion, with cheap flights from N.I. and other places, I'll be there. Maybe St. Vincent Street, can think of other places but really it should be in the Tonteen Hotel, (wrong spelling I'm sure), Greenock., hope it's not apartments by now. SO MANY HAPPY MEMORIES. Sadly Black Bob, Johnny G, and I'm sure many others have crossed the bar to their final port, but while we can still remember those happy days you're the Captain to get the crew together.
Rgds Harry G

Tom S
9th February 2008, 08:11
Tom S, and that can be only be one Person, when are you going to arrange a GTV reunion, with cheap flights from N.I. and other places, I'll be there. Maybe St. Vincent Street, can think of other places but really it should be in the Tonteen Hotel, (wrong spelling I'm sure), Greenock., hope it's not apartments by now. SO MANY HAPPY MEMORIES. Sadly Black Bob, Johnny G, and I'm sure many others have crossed the bar to their final port, but while we can still remember those happy days you're the Captain to get the crew together.
Rgds Harry G

Hi Harry
Really nice to hear from you hope you are well. A GTV get together wouldnt be a bad idea there are still a few of us around as you can see by this site,the only problem is everybody is so scattered around the world now. There is not a week goes by when I dont think about some of the good times on the GTV,s there was something special about them
best regards
Tom

John Cassels
9th February 2008, 08:17
Tom , the wife and me will be over for 10 days in April !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Gulpers
10th February 2008, 17:18
Tom/Harry,

Good news, the Tontine Hotel is still up and running - not a block of flats, yet! (==D)

muldonaich
10th February 2008, 18:28
Tom/Harry,

Good news, the Tontine Hotel is still up and running - not a block of flats, yet! (==D)the deputy head in castlebay school had his wedding reception there told me what i already knew it is agreat watering hole kev.

Tom McNeill
17th February 2008, 14:50
Hello, my father is I.C.Graham (Actionman) as mentioned above. And your right, the torch incident is one he would rather forget. He is now retired, and living in Surrey. Regading the speed of the GTV's, 43 knots does sound somewhta on the high side. 33kts in a good tide might be more accurate. I sailed on all of them except the Eurofrieghter. I am very sad to hear about Rab Fraser. Though when I sailed with him on the Brittania Team, his nickname there was sinply 'Blackfoot'. He was indeed a real character. Another name from the early days of the GTV's was Wally Rolland (3rd Eng)- Another larger than life personality. I also recognice the name of Dick Stevenette. I sailed with him on the Nordic Patriot. I'm just wondering if anyone knows what became of an engineer called Jerry Deeney? I sailed with him on the Brittania Team, and the Dahlma. I know he made it to Chief, and may even have become a superintendent engineer
Jerry went to work in Singapore as a Super about 15 years ago and as far as I am aware he is still there.

Wallyh
25th February 2008, 07:39
Jerry went to work in Singapore as a Super about 15 years ago and as far as I am aware he is still there.

Gerry Deeney is working for MTMM Shipmanagement of Singapore as one of their Engineer Supt. has been since about 1995, first met him in 1997 when I joined one of their ships and had to transit through the Singapore office,

Wallyh
Also ex Denholms Uqba Ibn Naafi twice, that was enough punishment

Jim ECO
2nd April 2008, 16:23
I was looking at some old slides recently and have attached 2 views of Eurofreighter Control Room, and a photo of Dave McFarlane (2nd Eng.), Ian Cameron Cook later Ch. Stwd.) and QM2's Chief Engineer in his younger days.
Hope they are of interest.

Rgds, Jim

xdenholm
3rd April 2008, 09:41
I was looking at some old slides recently and have attached 2 views of Eurofreighter Control Room, and a photo of Dave McFarlane (2nd Eng.), Ian Cameron Cook later Ch. Stwd.) and QM2's Chief Engineer in his younger days.
Hope they are of interest.

Rgds, Jim

jim great pics sailed with ronnie on eurofreighter when he was 3rd some time ago,great story teller,i see hes still wearing his seiko watch .control room was so modern at the time ,but now antique by todays PC control systems and screens(Thumb)

Tom S
3rd April 2008, 10:52
jim great pics sailed with ronnie on eurofreighter when he was 3rd some time ago,great story teller,i see hes still wearing his seiko watch .control room was so modern at the time ,but now antique by todays PC control systems and screens(Thumb)

Yes he has done well really pleased for him. As you say he was quite a character and could tell a good story I always looked forward to having him onboard
TomS

darrochdog
20th May 2008, 21:59
My "handle" may be "Darrochdog" (in honour of a Border Terrier), but my name is Norman Angus Macdonald and my father features quite frequently in the comments above (Morton of the Needles, your name is noted).

John Cassels, Morton fanatic, I remember you well from the "Naess Cavalier" - you and Findochty Flett (whose accent was so thick that nobody could work out what the messages from the stern comprised) were the two cadets when I was on board - Rotterdam, Emden, Sept Iles, Newport News, Panama, Tobata, Huasco, Panama, Rotterdam - in 1964.

With regard to the Seatrain ships' top speed, I know that (prior to the 1973 fuel crisis) there was some consideration being given to increasing supernumerary accommodation in order to have a go at the full "Blue Riband" (the Riband charter stipulated that the ship should carry - I think - 12 or more passengers). This would imply that there was the theoretical possibility of the ships being able to achieve 35 knots over a distance (though this had never been put to the test). Since the marinised P&W jet engines ran on a methanol derivative, the cost of which was many times that of diesel, when fuel costs quadrupled in 1973/4, the economics went out the porthole.

Since my father stood by the construction of two of the Seatrain ships, there is a fair chance that it was he who dropped the torch in the gubbins - however, such a fact would never have been publicised within the family.

My wife (then girlfriend) and I did the proving trials of the Mercedes 220D which he got from Sindelfingen....a rotten job, but someone had to do it....In order to bring it into UK without duty, it had to have genuine miles under the bonnet and he wasn't going to do that between the company flat and the yard each day - so we were forced to spend a month touring Germany in a brand new Merc. As one of you said, it is now owned by my cousin and her husband on the Isle of Lewis.

It was on the ship in Greenock that I first saw a microwave in action.

Mentioning Greenock, that port was my father's worst nightmare. At that time, the "management" was run by the workforce, and there was a weird payment system which was an incentive to the creation of overtime. The only time they left Greenock on schedule was when there was an Old Firm match. This contributed to the replacement of Greenock with Southampton in the time-table.

Cass - re your mention of Glenfiddich - are you sure it wasn't Johnnie Walker Black Label, because that was always what we drank when out poaching (on the second boat that he built on board ship - the awning spars were great for soaking and weighting the sheets of Thames Marine Ply in order to create the sheer of the bow).

I have loved reading this correspondence - I hope that some of you find this contribution of interest.

Alan G
20th May 2008, 23:11
Hi Darrochdog

Someone should do a documentry of those ships, as they where so far ahead of thier times, Concord of the seas in reality.

I was a Steward on the Asialiner in 1972, and after coming off conventional ships, these vessels where from another age, with there innovations, I remember those Microwaves well, we used to give the duty engineers, small plastic tags, that they fed into it, to make it work, I think they where timed devices as well, also the stores where in two forty foot containers that slotted into the back of the accomadation, and where all set out for a six week trip, there was also a lift, and engineers in sparkling white boiler suits, never seen that before.

I also remember that Blue Ribbon challenge being talked about.

Was anybody on that trip where we hit a North Atlantic storm, and the forrid containers broke open, and cases of J&B whiskey came sailing through the air and hitting the accomadation, and many a sailor risked life and limb going out on deck to pick them up, that morning every cupboard I opened was full of quart bottles of the stuff, then when we got to New Jersey, they put a lone policeman on board to guard it.

Great memories, and every time someone posts, it jogs my one a little more.

Alan

Keckers
21st May 2008, 07:15
Did two round trips on these in the seventies. On AF we lost 11 containers and the fo'csle was damaged necessitating an 11 day (I think) stay in Weehawken for repairs. We "parked" opposite the Empire state building and it was coming up to St Patrick's day - and every night the building got "greener" from the bottom as they bathed the building in floodlights until eventually the whole thing shone green.

Only time I was ever sea sick was on these - they'd roll in drydock.

John Cassels
21st May 2008, 21:06
My "handle" may be "Darrochdog" (in honour of a Border Terrier), but my name is Norman Angus Macdonald and my father features quite frequently in the comments above (Morton of the Needles, your name is noted).

John Cassels, Morton fanatic, I remember you well from the "Naess Cavalier" - you and Findochty Flett (whose accent was so thick that nobody could work out what the messages from the stern comprised) were the two cadets when I was on board - Rotterdam, Emden, Sept Iles, Newport News, Panama, Tobata, Huasco, Panama, Rotterdam - in 1964.

With regard to the Seatrain ships' top speed, I know that (prior to the 1973 fuel crisis) there was some consideration being given to increasing supernumerary accommodation in order to have a go at the full "Blue Riband" (the Riband charter stipulated that the ship should carry - I think - 12 or more passengers). This would imply that there was the theoretical possibility of the ships being able to achieve 35 knots over a distance (though this had never been put to the test). Since the marinised P&W jet engines ran on a methanol derivative, the cost of which was many times that of diesel, when fuel costs quadrupled in 1973/4, the economics went out the porthole.

Since my father stood by the construction of two of the Seatrain ships, there is a fair chance that it was he who dropped the torch in the gubbins - however, such a fact would never have been publicised within the family.

My wife (then girlfriend) and I did the proving trials of the Mercedes 220D which he got from Sindelfingen....a rotten job, but someone had to do it....In order to bring it into UK without duty, it had to have genuine miles under the bonnet and he wasn't going to do that between the company flat and the yard each day - so we were forced to spend a month touring Germany in a brand new Merc. As one of you said, it is now owned by my cousin and her husband on the Isle of Lewis.

It was on the ship in Greenock that I first saw a microwave in action.

Mentioning Greenock, that port was my father's worst nightmare. At that time, the "management" was run by the workforce, and there was a weird payment system which was an incentive to the creation of overtime. The only time they left Greenock on schedule was when there was an Old Firm match. This contributed to the replacement of Greenock with Southampton in the time-table.

Cass - re your mention of Glenfiddich - are you sure it wasn't Johnnie Walker Black Label, because that was always what we drank when out poaching (on the second boat that he built on board ship - the awning spars were great for soaking and weighting the sheets of Thames Marine Ply in order to create the sheer of the bow).

I have loved reading this correspondence - I hope that some of you find this contribution of interest.

Norman , It is with the greatest of pleasure that I welcome you to the site.
I remember you well from that trip in 1964. I cannot say more at this time
regarding your father; my previous posts have made abundantly clear the
high esteem I held for him. He is probably the Master that I learned most
from and most respected.
Am leaving shortly to fly back for a wedding in Ayrshire and will send you
a PM when we get back next week.
Bye the bye , it was Glenfiddich for certain , I can remember the day as if it
were yesterday !!!!!!!!!!!.
He was a man in a million .

muldonaich
21st May 2008, 23:40
Norman , It is with the greatest of pleasure that I welcome you to the site.
I remember you well from that trip in 1964. I cannot say more at this time
regarding your father; my previous posts have made abundantly clear the
high esteem I held for him. He is probably the Master that I learned most
from and most respected.
Am leaving shortly to fly back for a wedding in Ayrshire and will send you
a PM when we get back next week.
Bye the bye , it was Glenfiddich for certain , I can remember the day as if it
were yesterday !!!!!!!!!!!.
He was a man in a million .i could not have put it better john regards kev.

Ian M Cameron
26th June 2008, 22:44
jim great pics sailed with ronnie on eurofreighter when he was 3rd some time ago,great story teller,i see hes still wearing his seiko watch .control room was so modern at the time ,but now antique by todays PC control systems and screens(Thumb)

Well Hello Jim the Easy-o - wizard of all things electronic from radar scanners to control room panels with galley range and fridges in betwen. Good pics of Ronnie and David. Where has my black hair gone? Why were we standing on a raised accommodation ladder? Where did we think we were going.
Regards
Ian

randcmackenzie
27th June 2008, 00:10
Managed by Denholm/s in Glasgow,she and her two sisters,ASIALINER and EUROLINER were a familiar sight on the Clyde in the early days of First Generation container ships in the 70s-this taken in 1973.
Gas turbine powered,they were extremely fast ships.All later sold out and over the last 5 years or so have all gone to breakers.


Just for the record, Euroliner and Eurofreighter were sisters, Asialiner and Asiafreighter had heavier shafting and propellers, designed to accept the JT9 engines, which were 35,000 hp, as opposed to the mere 30,000 produced by the JT4.

Otherwise there were differences in accommodation colours - Euroliner passageways were all wood coloured, whereas the other 3 had fairly ghastly primary colours. Also Asiafreighter had only one pantry, and I think there were some differences with the laundries.

AlanHrpr
3rd October 2008, 18:52
Barra John is alive and still kicking.

Regarding the Arsine gas incident. This was in 1975. I joined as mate for
the gas freeing op. Malcolm John was Master and we had the company of
HMS Kent for the duration. As far as I remember there were only about 14
of us on board - no GP's only offs.. Interesting time . Anyone else remember ???.

Master : Malcolm John
C/O : H. Davies + J. Cassels
3/0 : Alan Harper
C/E : I.C. Ross + J.M. Benn
2/E : P. Thirlaway
Elec/O : J. Stevens

+ 5 civvy medical / scientific experts

Only two of the above named, were aboard from the time the cargo was loaded in America till the discharge of the Arsine gas.

Regards

Alan

randcmackenzie
3rd October 2008, 23:24
Alan, the incident took place in November 1974.

kewl dude
4th October 2008, 07:38
I worked five years in the 70's as 2/E and 1/E on US Flag Seatrain ships.

Seatrain was known to bite off big chunks and come up with vessels ahead of their time.

I attach three pictures.

Seatrain.jpg shows one of five 10,000 HP Mission Class T2's Seatrain converted right after WW2 to carry railroad box cars between Weehawken, NJ and Cuba. When that service ended in 1959 these ships were laid up, but then, when 'Nam came along, these five ships were converted to Fueled Vehicle Carriers.

There was enough CO2 on board that we could flood the cargo hold. We carried military fixed wing and rotary aircraft and vehicles fully fueled and ready to go. We'd place helicopters on the dock and they would be checked over, the rotors installed, then flown off the dock. The cargo gear was the pair of electric LaTourneau 275 ton cranes shown.

I sailed the Seatrain Maine and we picked up a steam railroad locomotive in Keelung and placed it in the lower, but it was a narrower gauge than our American tracks. We delivered it to Saigon.

2.jpg is one of five 25,000 ton jumboized T2's converted by American Shipbuilding in Lorain Ohio and each named after one of the Great Lakes, this being the TransErie. My five foot four first ex-wife stands on the blocks at the bow for scale.

3.jpg is the TransErie with me for scale. The midship houses were slid aft, as you can see in this picture. This picture was taken by our NY Port Engineer Andy Anderson. This was taken after the dry docking while the Erie was laid up on Terminal Island in Los Angeles harbor. I was the Ship Keeper.

I had five shares of Seatrain stock and I still have here the 34 page 1978 Annual Report. Joseph Kahn is listed as Chairman, Howard M. Pack Vice Chairman and Stephan Russell President and CEO. I met these three along the way.

Regarding the Seatrain Texas, I have a 33-1/3 rpm phonograph record that was sent to shareholders. It is a recording of a radio broadcast on The Cavalcade of America broadcast October 1951, with the American actor Ray Milland playing the Texas's Master Kenneth George Towne. The title of the show was The Ship the Nazis Had to Get.

I have always been under the impression it was when Seatrain got into the shibuilding business that caused the whole company to go south. Seatrain took over the operation of the then defunct Brooklyn Navy Yard to build 225,000 ton tankers.

This was a US Government make work project where Seatrain was NOT allowed to employ experienced ship yard workers. Instead they had to hire inner city individuals where unemployment was very high. Seatrain had to train all of their employees in their skills. Basically with all the mistakes made building them, each ship was built three times before they got them right. Even then I believe the few ships they built (three?) had short difficult lives.

Initially Seatrain operated them, but then leased them out to others.

Greg Hayden

Alan G
4th October 2008, 16:24
HI Greg

Thank you for that very interesting story, especially about the Pack and Kahn company and the Tankers, as I sailed on the Hopepark, when it was managed by Denholms, but owned by them, I often wondered who they where, and what the story was, as I recall it was a pig of a ship, apart from a couple of fires, and a death on board, and other misshaps, it used to vibrate like hell.

Here's an attachment of it, going into simons town for repairs to the Anchor an bow after a storm, is it the same vessels you are talking about, it did have a P and K on the funnel.

Alan

AlanHrpr
4th October 2008, 19:06
Roddy

You are dead right. The first part of my message, including the date, was a quote from John Cassels. My part of the message was letting John know the names of the others who went out to clear the gas. Sorry if it was misleading. Anyway, glad to hear you are alive and well. The last time I saw you was November 15th 1974. I was tying you to a rope to send you up to a helicopter and off to hospital. Took no photos but let me tell you, you looked like a warmed up corpse as did the other three! Not surprised there are conflicting stories about this - from start to finish of the operation there were5 Masters, 5 Chief Officers, 2 Second Officers not to mention the rest of the first team + numerous substitutes. After you left and were tucked up nicely in hospital Denholm sent R. Wallace to replace you. We then tried to head for the Continent but Mr Wallace took ill and we immediately returned to Falmouth at which time he, Capt I.C. Graham and several others were detained at Treliske Hospital for observation. Denholm then sent the "crack troops" namely Malcolm John, John Cassells and others, all with vast experience of this class of vessel, to form a skeleton crew to take the ship out and discharge the gas into the atmosphere. The operation was a complete success.

Best wishes to all

Alan Harper

kewl dude
4th October 2008, 23:10
I knew I had these Seatrain Texas pictures on my machine, but it took me awhile to remember which folder they were in.

SeatrainTexas.jpg I cannot recall when nor where on the web I found this picture. Taken circa early 1960's it shows two Seatrain vessels rafted together in layup, I believe the outboard vessel is the Seatrain Texas.

Seatrain-Texas-Nha-Be.jpg I got these two pictures off of a Vietnam War US Army transportation corp website. The Transportation Corp operated tugboats, LST's, LCM's and barges in Vietnam ports. The first picture shows the Texas, while:

Seatrain-Texas-Nha-Be-Repairs.jpg shows underway repairs after a rocket attack on the ship. Notice all the safety gear these two guys are using. Standing on a ladder rigged over the side, sitting on a staging rigged over the side welding. Pretty much every time I saw the Texas in 'Nam there were new holes in the hull and as often as not a repair gang working underway in protected waters.

The Seatrain Texas, now converted to a container ship, stayed in the war zone acting as a container feeder ship visiting all ports north of Saigon. Offshore ships delivered and picked up containers in Saigon. Texas delivered them and picked up from other ports like Nha Be where these pictures were taken, Cam Rahn Bay and Danang.

It was impossible to get a job on the Texas as everyone on board earned a LOT of money, since the ship was attacked so often, and never got off. As I recall underway attacks each crew member received a $500 bonus. Harbor attacks generated a $300 per man bonus.

I only ever received harbor bonuses. When we eventually paid off the voyage, war zone bonuses were paid separate from our voyage pay. $196 was retained in taxes, we being paid $104 for each harbor attack. And a ship like the Texas that was on the move in the zone much of the time was attacked often. Just as in WW II when the Texas carried a load of battle tanks to North Africa that the Nazi's did not want to happen. In 'Nam the VC had a high bounty on the Texas payable to anyone who could sink her.

It is true also that while in the Zone -- which included seas up to 12 miles off the coast, and of course the coastal and inland waterways -- 100% base pay bonuses were awarded to all hands. But in those days our base pay generally wasn't anything to write home about. Somewhere here I have my union contract book of that era. IF I can find it I can be more accurate, but I believe as 1/E my base pay was in the $900 monthly range. But once tings got figured out in 'Nam typically a stick ship would be in the zone only a week or two.

Early on, 1965-1967, so many ships filled up Vietnamese ports, that often we waited in line anchored somewhere in the zone four to six weeks before going alongside, anchoring in the stream or tied to dolphins in some ports. But then they got their act together and we would wait anchored in Japan, Thailand, the Philippines, being in the zone only a week or two.

Overtime is where we made our money. As 1/E generally I was the highest paid man aboard, make twice what the Master did, grossing $6,000 monthly. But of course I did little in the way of sleeping. USCG rules required the 1/E to be on the throttle while maneuvering. From time of Arrival until finally docking way up some river may entail up to 12 hours at the throttle, usually an overnight affair which was all overtime for me.

And while union contracts expressly forbid pyramiding of overtime, it was done all the time. If I entered a tank outside of my regular 9AM to 5PM Day Worker shift, I got triple overtime. An hour of overtime for excess of 8 hours, an hour for entering a tank, an hour for getting dirty. And of course if I was in that tank more than one hour I got three hours of OT for each hour actually spent.

And of course we all got OT for hours worked each Saturday, Sunday, US Federal Holidays and any day in port that was a local holiday. Generally anyone who wanted to work could earn at least four hours OT everyday doing maintenance work.

Lastly Brooklyn.jpg I scanned from a Marine Engineering/Log magazine article of the era about Seatrain and the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Brooklyn being the first ship, the other three were named for Brooklyn neighborhoods Bay Ridge, Stuyvesant and Williamsburg.

Greg Hayden

John Cassels
5th October 2008, 09:23
Roddy

You are dead right. The first part of my message, including the date, was a quote from John Cassels. My part of the message was letting John know the names of the others who went out to clear the gas. Sorry if it was misleading. Anyway, glad to hear you are alive and well. The last time I saw you was November 15th 1974. I was tying you to a rope to send you up to a helicopter and off to hospital. Took no photos but let me tell you, you looked like a warmed up corpse as did the other three! Not surprised there are conflicting stories about this - from start to finish of the operation there were5 Masters, 5 Chief Officers, 2 Second Officers not to mention the rest of the first team + numerous substitutes. After you left and were tucked up nicely in hospital Denholm sent R. Wallace to replace you. We then tried to head for the Continent but Mr Wallace took ill and we immediately returned to Falmouth at which time he, Capt I.C. Graham and several others were detained at Treliske Hospital for observation. Denholm then sent the "crack troops" namely Malcolm John, John Cassells and others, all with vast experience of this class of vessel, to form a skeleton crew to take the ship out and discharge the gas into the atmosphere. The operation was a complete success.

Best wishes to all

Alan Harper

My apologies to all. Thought it was 1975 but just shows you how the
memory can play tricks.
Nice to hear from you again Alan.

Don't know about "crack troops ". Was just newly married and remember the
wife being mad at me for "volunteering ".

muldonaich
5th October 2008, 10:25
I knew I had these Seatrain Texas pictures on my machine, but it took me awhile to remember which folder they were in.

SeatrainTexas.jpg I cannot recall when nor where on the web I found this picture. Taken circa early 1960's it shows two Seatrain vessels rafted together in layup, I believe the outboard vessel is the Seatrain Texas.

Seatrain-Texas-Nha-Be.jpg I got these two pictures off of a Vietnam War US Army transportation corp website. The Transportation Corp operated tugboats, LST's, LCM's and barges in Vietnam ports. The first picture shows the Texas, while:

Seatrain-Texas-Nha-Be-Repairs.jpg shows underway repairs after a rocket attack on the ship. Notice all the safety gear these two guys are using. Standing on a ladder rigged over the side, sitting on a staging rigged over the side welding. Pretty much every time I saw the Texas in 'Nam there were new holes in the hull and as often as not a repair gang working underway in protected waters.

The Seatrain Texas, now converted to a container ship, stayed in the war zone acting as a container feeder ship visiting all ports north of Saigon. Offshore ships delivered and picked up containers in Saigon. Texas delivered them and picked up from other ports like Nha Be where these pictures were taken, Cam Rahn Bay and Danang.

It was impossible to get a job on the Texas as everyone on board earned a LOT of money, since the ship was attacked so often, and never got off. As I recall underway attacks each crew member received a $500 bonus. Harbor attacks generated a $300 per man bonus.

I only ever received harbor bonuses. When we eventually paid off the voyage, war zone bonuses were paid separate from our voyage pay. $196 was retained in taxes, we being paid $104 for each harbor attack. And a ship like the Texas that was on the move in the zone much of the time was attacked often. Just as in WW II when the Texas carried a load of battle tanks to North Africa that the Nazi's did not want to happen. In 'Nam the VC had a high bounty on the Texas payable to anyone who could sink her.

It is true also that while in the Zone -- which included seas up to 12 miles off the coast, and of course the coastal and inland waterways -- 100% base pay bonuses were awarded to all hands. But in those days our base pay generally wasn't anything to write home about. Somewhere here I have my union contract book of that era. IF I can find it I can be more accurate, but I believe as 1/E my base pay was in the $900 monthly range. But once tings got figured out in 'Nam typically a stick ship would be in the zone only a week or two.

Early on, 1965-1967, so many ships filled up Vietnamese ports, that often we waited in line anchored somewhere in the zone four to six weeks before going alongside, anchoring in the stream or tied to dolphins in some ports. But then they got their act together and we would wait anchored in Japan, Thailand, the Philippines, being in the zone only a week or two.

Overtime is where we made our money. As 1/E generally I was the highest paid man aboard, make twice what the Master did, grossing $6,000 monthly. But of course I did little in the way of sleeping. USCG rules required the 1/E to be on the throttle while maneuvering. From time of Arrival until finally docking way up some river may entail up to 12 hours at the throttle, usually an overnight affair which was all overtime for me.

And while union contracts expressly forbid pyramiding of overtime, it was done all the time. If I entered a tank outside of my regular 9AM to 5PM Day Worker shift, I got triple overtime. An hour of overtime for excess of 8 hours, an hour for entering a tank, an hour for getting dirty. And of course if I was in that tank more than one hour I got three hours of OT for each hour actually spent.

And of course we all got OT for hours worked each Saturday, Sunday, US Federal Holidays and any day in port that was a local holiday. Generally anyone who wanted to work could earn at least four hours OT everyday doing maintenance work.

Lastly Brooklyn.jpg I scanned from a Marine Engineering/Log magazine article of the era about Seatrain and the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Brooklyn being the first ship, the other three were named for Brooklyn neighborhoods Bay Ridge, Stuyvesant and Williamsburg.

Greg Haydenthe other one is the seatrain san juan i have the wheelhouse clock from the seatrain texas in my kitchen on the bulkhead given to me by nick c kev.

Varley
13th November 2008, 16:41
cboots puts his finger on my feelings "FUN" and who can say that of what we ask our staff to do these days.

I must also comment on the clean boiler suit brigade. That must have been before BFO! if you think MGT4/7 was fun imagine what burning sh.. in aircraft engines was like!

27 in the Pentland firth was the best I remember can't remember if that was Asialiner or Eurofreighter (my only berths).

To be pendantic they were not exact sisters the Asia boats needed bigger gearboxes to go with their ability for the 'C' engine. By my time Eurofreighter had had a 'big bertha' propeller put on one shaft for more efficient single engine operation (can't remember which).

David V

Ronnie Keir
18th January 2009, 21:26
Gentlemen, as a new member to the website, I read with interest the stories about the Asia Freighter.
I joined the Euro Freighter with Jim Blane in LeHavre, i think is was 1974, need to get my first dischharge book out. I was on there for a couple of trips as 4th Eng and then went to the Asia Freighter as 3rd. I was on there when the gassing incedent took place and we made for Falmouth metting with a helicopter from Cornwall on the way in, who lifted off, if i remember right, Roddy Mcleod ? the mate, John Galbraith ? an AB, and Alan McGregor the cadet to Truro hospital.
We made all haste to Falmouth, and if remember right we made 32 Knots with the stops out in the ECR telegraph. Gearbox bearing temps were limiting us.
Ian Ross was Chief. Myself, Robert Frazer and Andy Anderson, ex RN, were the thirds, can't remember who the 2nd was.

With the FT4C engines, ( the rest had FT4A's ) with the extra compressor stage and 3 stage power turbine we made this speed.
I don't recall making this speed during our regular voyages, probably around 30 knots.
So with an 11 knot current down the Minch i would expect a speed over the ground of around 41 knots possible. I rember doing it.


I was sorry to hear big Jim McGillivray crossed over, ( well called him split pin when he was Chief on the Stena Seaspread,) ,and John Costa. i really did like wee John. you will all probably know Robert Frazer also crossed the bar a couple of years ago, in his middle 50's. scary isn't it.

Keep going strong. Ronnie

Pat Kennedy
18th January 2009, 22:05
The speed of these ships seems absolutely incredible.
I remember being on the wheel of a 'H' class Blue Funnel ship racing from Glasgow to Liverpool to catch the tide and as we passed out of the Clyde estuary, a submarine surfaced off the starboard bow, and promptly took off at high speed. within ten minutes she was gone. The officers in the wheelhouse were in awe at the speed and said it must have been in excess of forty knots.
Does anyone know just how fast a nuclear sub can go on the surface?

xdenholm
19th January 2009, 15:51
Gentlemen, as a new member to the website, I read with interest the stories about the Asia Freighter.
I joined the Euro Freighter with Jim Blane in LeHavre, i think is was 1974, need to get my first dischharge book out. I was on there for a couple of trips as 4th Eng and then went to the Asia Freighter as 3rd. I was on there when the gassing incedent took place and we made for Falmouth metting with a helicopter from Cornwall on the way in, who lifted off, if i remember right, Roddy Mcleod ? the mate, John Galbraith ? an AB, and Alan McGregor the cadet to Truro hospital.
We made all haste to Falmouth, and if remember right we made 32 Knots with the stops out in the ECR telegraph. Gearbox bearing temps were limiting us.
Ian Ross was Chief. Myself, Robert Frazer and Andy Anderson, ex RN, were the thirds, can't remember who the 2nd was.

With the FT4C engines, ( the rest had FT4A's ) with the extra compressor stage and 3 stage power turbine we made this speed.
I don't recall making this speed during our regular voyages, probably around 30 knots.
So with an 11 knot current down the Minch i would expect a speed over the ground of around 41 knots possible. I rember doing it.


I was sorry to hear big Jim McGillivray crossed over, ( well called him split pin when he was Chief on the Stena Seaspread,) ,and John Costa. i really did like wee John. you will all probably know Robert Frazer also crossed the bar a couple of years ago, in his middle 50's. scary isn't it.

Keep going strong. Ronnie

hi ronnie,welcome to the site and thank you for your predicted speed...lol as it was you that told me that the gtvs could do that speed along with many more of your fasinating stories at the time, being about 1977/78 on eurofreighter (big bertha prop)i think ,and john costa was there to along with dave wood whom was my mentor at the time as a cadet in fact it was you that more or less sold me a seiko watch when we arrived at rotterdam £30 i paid and it still works today...lol atb(Thumb)

John Cassels
19th January 2009, 18:26
This is a load of codswallop , 41 knots over the ground , utter rubbish.

Billieboy
23rd May 2009, 06:39
This is a load of codswallop , 41 knots over the ground , utter rubbish.

Depends on wether the tyres were wet, or dry slicks, anyway, the Pentland Firth is all downhill!

Steven Lamb
30th May 2009, 06:43
Some interesting posts submitted. I for my sins was put on the "Asialiner" for a couple of trips in 74 as Jnr R/O after being a bad boy on my 1st trip to sea on an old Ore carrier. Nonetheless the training was excellent and I was fortunate to have three excellent ECO's push me along. Can only remember their 1st names ! (showing me age) they were :- wee Jack (fee Stonehaven I think ?) Robbie and Scouse Pete (think last name Johnson ?) You regular Denholm men would remember them. do you know where they are these days please ?
The Old Man (unforgettable) was Georgie Mayne and not sure if I did a trip with IC as old man - he was the chap involved in the Eurofreighter gas job.
I've since met Bill Maddox who was 3rd mate (from Dundee) who sadly packed in the sea on health grounds. The 2nd Engineer Ian was a jovial chappie from Barrow with good patter - wonder we he his these days ?
Highlights of the trip if you could them that ! were a quick waltz round Manhattan up the Empire state into Macy's a bit of shopping before getting back onboard and whizzing round to Baltimore or Norfolk - forgot the routing ?
Seem to remember ("rather well") the visit from the office girls in either Norfolk or Wilmington ? Ah well young & innocent but great !
And to top it off these fast boaties had draft beer onboard - luxury !

eigyro
2nd June 2009, 00:22
Hard to imagine Bill Maddox having health issues.
He was pretty good to me on my first trip as junior r/o on
Asiafreighter in early 74.
I enjoyed the trip but not the short turnarounds.
Went to Kuwait Shipping, general cargo, thereafter.
If you see Bill again, give him my best wishes.

cheers,

Fergus Kavanagh.

P.S Often wondered if they timed the Pentland passage to catch the tide.
Sure went through there fast.

Steven Lamb
2nd June 2009, 06:32
Will do Fergus.

Rgds
Steve

Jim ECO
3rd October 2009, 13:03
I have dug out a couple more photos, one of "Big Bertha" and two of the Radio room.
Regards, Jim

Billieboy
3rd October 2009, 13:19
I have dug out a couple more photos, one of "Big Bertha" and two of the Radio room.
Regards, Jim

How come there are two different shaped screws on the ship? is the Port one a, "Good used", spare? The high speed is reflected in, "Edge Cavitation", which appears to have been polished out.

Gavin Naismith
20th December 2009, 11:37
Interesting article re: Seatrain, in the Wilmington Morning Star from 1980...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1367&dat=19800814&id=stsVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=URMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3285,2701050

clarkvw
11th January 2010, 09:19
What ticket did the Chief Engineer have, steam or diesel!

Originally combined tickets but reverted to motor as gas turbines classed as internal combustion engines - hope that helps!(Thumb)

Jim ECO
19th August 2011, 21:27
I was in NY last year and this is what the Seatrain berth in Weehawken looks like now. Changed days.

Malky Glaister
20th August 2011, 11:54
Trying to think of something humorous about Bobby G but cannot.

Big changes indeed but the same for a very large number of such places.

regards Malky

John Cassels
20th August 2011, 19:25
Trying to think of something humorous about Bobby G but cannot.

Big changes indeed but the same for a very large number of such places.

regards Malky


Bobby G ?.

Malky Glaister
20th August 2011, 22:47
R G Greenow esquire, South Wales, some place in the Vale of Neath I think.

Those who sailed with him, will remember Bobby G.

Absolutely lovely wife called Mai

Regards Malky

Tom S
21st August 2011, 11:43
I was in NY last year and this is what the Seatrain berth in Weehawken looks like now. Changed days.

Quite amazing how the place has changed Time certainly marches on. Found this web page, http://www.hudsonplacerealty.com/hudsonplacerealty/listings_rentals_display.asp?varRentalListingID=39 60
Wonder if Nick Konstantos is the maintenance man?
TomS

muldonaich
21st August 2011, 18:21
I was in NY last year and this is what the Seatrain berth in Weehawken looks like now. Changed days.
still belongs to the mafia by the look of things kev lol.

Bill61402
9th October 2012, 16:25
I know it's bad form to revive a long dead string, but I will give it a shot. I am a newbie and am considering writing a book on some of these great ships as well as the great diesel triple screw container ships from this time (Scan Dutch mostly)... kind of a "greyhounds of the cargo world" type book focusing on the early 70's before fuel economy was such a detractor. Still in very prelim research phase, but had a question for you gents after reading this amazing string that i was hoping you could help me with. What's the story with the engines in these ships? I mean I understand they were turbines, and I gather that the Asia ships had more power than the Euro Ships, but specifically, what were the differences, what engine models, was it just AsiaFreighter or both Asia ships that received bigger engines. I have heard the bigger engines referred to as "Dash 12, FT6A, JT9, C Type, FT4C" in this thread alone. Doing some homework, those are all different engines. Maybe they tried a number of different powerplants? Also, do you know of any good reference materials on these ships, blueprints, plans, etc.? Any help would be greatly appreciated and I apologize for resurfacing this thread, but the level of expertise on these posts is hard to ignore. Thanks in advance. -Bill

John Cassels
9th October 2012, 18:40
Firstly , welcome to the site.

Afraid your questions will have to be answered by one of our engineering
brethern , but as far as I am aware it was only the Asiafreighter that had
the bigger engines. They were Pratt & whitney and the US navy always
seemed to be interested !.

Varley
9th October 2012, 18:56
Both the Asia boats had gearboxes suitable for the more powerful "C" engine (as I remember them described) I never sailed on Asiafreighter which, like John I think was the only one to have them fitted.

Also understand that they were only used when US Navy (Coast Guard?) wanted test information. They were not interested in ruinning their engines with BFO - only MGT 7 for the Grey (White) fleet!.

Bill61402
9th October 2012, 20:10
Thank you both for the warm welcome and quick replies. The FT4C would make sense. The famous ferry Finnjet used two of those same engines and they were 70,000+ hp together. The acceleration must have been wild with big CP propellers. You fellas are a lucky lot to have had the experience you did! Was just doing some research on the triple diesel Container Ship Toyama. She was a real beauty and fast too, but not as exotic as the GTVs. Found interesting old catalog from a company which made reduction gears for the GTVs and they list the Euro ships as 60,000hp and both Asia ships as 70,000 which is in line with Varley's comments from a design perspective. Thanks again guys. Happy to hear from any others who care to weigh in. One can never have too much info.

Stephen J. Card
9th October 2012, 21:05
I'll never forget coming out of New York in EUROLINER in'72 bound Le Havre and working up to 28 knots.

Over the VHF...

"AMBROSE PILOTS, AMBROSE PILOTS, THIS IS SEALAND GALLOWAY. WE ARE SLOWING DOWN TO THIRTY KNOTS."

I thought that Bob Sharpe was going to be physically sick!

We passed a short while later. She had come over at 37 knots I believe, burning 500 tonnes of HFO per day!

Tom S
9th October 2012, 21:39
The asiafreighter had the larger turbines the Euroliner and Eurofreighter had Pratt and Whitney Turbo power FT4-12A turbines rated 30900bhp(m) (29719bhp) they were derived from the engines used on the Boeing 707.the vessels had two gs turbines totalling 59420shp driving Lips c- p propellers.Approx daily fuel consumption at 90 per cent power was 300 tons
Hope this helpsTomS

Bill61402
9th October 2012, 23:24
Thanks guys, this is all very helpful! Much appreciated. -Bill

John Cassels
10th October 2012, 08:36
Still remember leaving Le Havre on the Asiafreighter once.
Off shore wind , Norman Angus just let her drift off the berth a bit then put
her slow ahead. You could see the acceleration.

Those of us who sailed on the Seatrain ships , it sure was a lifetime experience.

oldseamerchant
10th October 2012, 09:10
The speed of these ships seems absolutely incredible.
I remember being on the wheel of a 'H' class Blue Funnel ship racing from Glasgow to Liverpool to catch the tide and as we passed out of the Clyde estuary, a submarine surfaced off the starboard bow, and promptly took off at high speed. within ten minutes she was gone. The officers in the wheelhouse were in awe at the speed and said it must have been in excess of forty knots.
Does anyone know just how fast a nuclear sub can go on the surface?

Best I've heard all week!

Varley
10th October 2012, 10:42
The asiafreighter had the larger turbines the Euroliner and Eurofreighter had Pratt and Whitney Turbo power FT4-12A turbines rated 30900bhp(m) (29719bhp) they were derived from the engines used on the Boeing 707.the vessels had two gs turbines totalling 59420shp driving Lips c- p propellers.Approx daily fuel consumption at 90 per cent power was 300 tons
Hope this helpsTomS

Tom, I think your fuel consumption would look more startling if you added "of paraffin".

Which was why the slops man in Rotterdam was always happy to see us until BFO! (I can't say really say "us" here as my too few trips were post introduction of BFO). What fun!

David V

Stephen J. Card
10th October 2012, 12:11
[QUOTE=John Cassels;626912]Still remember leaving Le Havre on the Asiafreighter once.
Off shore wind , Norman Angus just let her drift off the berth a bit then put
her slow ahead. You could see the acceleration.

QUOTE]


The amazing thing with gas turbines is that while the acceleration is dramatic is not as damatic as much as an instant 'STOP'!

The first was when one of the gas generators on one of the ships attempted to 'digest' a small hand torch that Captain Graham dropped down the air intake at sea. I remember seeing bent and mangled bits of turbine blading scattered on the dock in Weehawken.

The second sudden stop came from the other end. EUROLINER in Le Havre, November 1972. Preparing to sail but not quite ready. Pilot was told that if we didn't move we would be delayed by a large arriving tanker. Everyone ran to stations, let go F&A... drifted off the berth as you describe above. First movement was not Dead Slow but something considerably more..... we accelerated and as we came to the first course alteration we were moving quite fast. As the ship heeled the port prop made contact with the bottom and came to an instant stop. Coninued out to the anchorage on one engine, and then made attempt to get port negine started again. Starting not a problem but the control gear was knackered. Headed for Greenock on one engine and the ship was drydocked there for about a five days before heading to New York.

I left in Greenock on arrival and flew to Bermuda on compassionate leave. My dad had passed away while we were coming over from New York and had the ship not gone into drydock I would not have been able to get leave. In those days, being a Bermuda resident, I was not entitled to any compensation for air travel between UK and Bermuda. Probably the reason why I only took leave twice in four years! I flew home and within a few days received a letter from head office requesting my cheque for about 120 pounds for my air fare and also insstructions that I should book a ticket from Bermuda to New York to rejoin the vessel. This I did, no agent to meet at at the airport or overnight hotel... spent the night at the Port Authority Bus Terminal before heading over to Weehawken in the morning. Not much fun on cadet's pay... then about 35 pounds a month. My next leave was not until March 1974. By then I was 3/O and on filmstar wages.... could live like a king!

Varley
10th October 2012, 14:29
I think the circumstances of I.G Grahams torch may not have been quite like Stephen's description (wasn't it during water washing or even perhaps left inside during an HSI?) - the feedback was supposed to have been that the torch did no damage, it was all down to the batteries!

Less salt is needed for the follow up (as I heard it closer to first hand). That is that he had next appeared in the engine room to show interest in a gearbox inspection. This time, with torch firmly strapped to wrist his keys fell out of his top pocket into the gearing when bending over for a better look-see.

Agency in New York? I arrived for some urgent relief (can't remember for whom or for why). No runner at JFK (?) finally got nightwatchman at Weehawken who told me Eurofreighter had been there earlier but berth now empty. Ripped off in a taxi to Penn Street Station and then took train to Norfolk. Agent there rather miffed that I had arrived without assistance.

Stephen J. Card
10th October 2012, 15:08
The way I was told it was that the vessel was at sea making full speed, the covers of the intakes were off as a riding crew were fitting demisters to lower salt contamination of the blades. IC and ChEng went out to have a look. Holding on to the rail, having a look , his torch fell down the shaft, there was a bang and Seatrain needed a new gas generator.

Roddy MacKenzie was mate in EUROLINER while I was there. If he is reading this I'm sure he will confirm to refute the story. I was just a cadet at the time and the vision of a captain wrecking a main engine .......

I did not sail with IC until some years later when he was master in LOCH LOMOND. Many times we spoke about the Seatrain ships but I swear, I was smart enought to not ever ask him directly about the 'incident'!

Varley
10th October 2012, 17:59
I am sure someone will come up with the 'goods'.

I do recall being told that the ingestion of salt had been far worse before the demisters were modified - very early on I thought.

muldonaich
10th October 2012, 18:10
the real story is myself and ian ross were in the plenum chamber doing an engine wash the engine was running about 1800 reves when ic stepped through the door tripped on the hose and his torch got sucked into the engine when engine washes were done you were not allowed to have anything loose or in your pockets if my memory serves me right demisters were modified after this accident brgds kev.

John Cassels
10th October 2012, 18:28
That's right Kevin , Ian Ross was the cheng at the time. A great guy.

Varley
10th October 2012, 18:38
Much obliged. From the horse's mouth, as it were.

Tom S
10th October 2012, 18:53
I am sure someone will come up with the 'goods'.

I do recall being told that the ingestion of salt had been far worse before the demisters were modified - very early on I thought.

David
You are correct I remember when I first joined the GTV,s we carried the Pratt and Whitney brain squad who were concerned about the reduced engine life due to salt if I remember it was 30 per cent less than they thought it should have been in addition to modifying the demisters they looked at different types of turbine blades ie ceramic.
You have a good memory. I served eight happy years on these ships and enjoyed every minute of it even with Big Bertha and BFO
Tom

Tom S
10th October 2012, 19:21
That's right Kevin , Ian Ross was the cheng at the time. A great guy.

John
Whatever happened to Peter Yates long time third mate on the GTV,s?
Tom

makko
10th October 2012, 19:23
What a laugh with the torch and THEN the keys! I look at GT losses all the time.

Two favourites: one concerns a step ladder, the other a lump hammer.......Yes, you guessed it, left in the intake on start up! With regard to the first, my bosses immortal words were,"Well, you have a covered loss - But we aren't paying you for the bloody ladder!".

Rgds.
Dave

muldonaich
10th October 2012, 21:47
That's right Kevin , Ian Ross was the cheng at the time. A great guy.hi john ianross was jun chief at the time the first two jun chiefs were himself and allan blackwood two gentlemen and to of the best engineers i ever sailed with if you looked down from inside the demisters there was a lot of baffle plates so the air did not go down and hit the bottom of the plenum chamber in a lump that was done before they left the yard the demisters were washed every morning we had a wee machine that told you how many particles of salt was in the water you washed out we had to record that great ships to sail on great crowds from the old men down kev.

John Cassels
11th October 2012, 09:00
John
Whatever happened to Peter Yates long time third mate on the GTV,s?
Tom

Morning Tom, yes remember Peter Yates. Think it was on the
Asialiner or Euroliner. But no idea what happened to him.

John Cassels
11th October 2012, 09:05
Another thing sticks in my mind about the GTV's is that when coasting , one
very rarely had a "risk of collision situation ", we were simply going too fast
for other traffic to present a problem.

Stephen J. Card
11th October 2012, 09:25
Kevin, Thanks.

A bit like the story about BR testing the windows on the front end of a chain by firing chickens at them through a special canon. The Americans decided to used the same method when testing their windows. The windows constantly failed in testing so they went back to BR to discover what was wrong. The reeply came back.... "Defrost the chickens."

Stephen J. Card
11th October 2012, 09:34
Another thing sticks in my mind about the GTV's is that when coasting , one
very rarely had a "risk of collision situation ", we were simply going too fast
for other traffic to present a problem.



Southbound NY to Baltimore....

EUROLINER southbound making about 25 knots. Two or three miles away on our starboard beam making same speed northbound... another gtv..... in the middle between us doing about 10 knots...the GINA MARIA. Would have made a great photo!

Stephen J. Card
11th October 2012, 09:43
John
Whatever happened to Peter Yates long time third mate on the GTV,s?
Tom



I remember a lad up at GCNS when I was there doing Second Mates. I think it was Peter Yates but I am not 100% certain. The chap I knew would have been in his late 20s or early 30s (in 1974). Taller than average and walked with a slight limp. While in college he flipped his little 3 wheel car and spent a few weeks in hispital. Some months later he went off to one of the Scanscot ships, fell down the hold off a ladder and was killed. I'm not 100% certain it was Peter Yates. I think mention of this was made in Denholm New sat the time.

Stephen

Varley
11th October 2012, 12:09
Kevin, Thanks.

A bit like the story about BR testing the windows on the front end of a chain by firing chickens at them through a special canon. The Americans decided to used the same method when testing their windows. The windows constantly failed in testing so they went back to BR to discover what was wrong. The reeply came back.... "Defrost the chickens."

The late Ryan O'Hare had two 'tall tales' told over some of the beers we enjoyed together:

1) He and Jimmy Holden boarded a plane having both remarked on the punishment a GG could take as evinced by two distorted compressor blades they had both noticed.

Plane took off only to make emergency landing with said engine vibrating fit to bust. On telling the pilot of the damage they had noticed they became "bloody fools" for having said nothing earlier. It was assumed that the damage was done as the engine was being shut down after the last landing.

2) at TPMS he witnessed the chicken test done with a frozen bird. The result was as the apocryphal story had it, GG all same bird - gutted.

(You must admit the temptation for all involved to know for sure what would happen must be great - it must have happend some time or even some times).

Tom S
11th October 2012, 17:52
Found this the crew list fom the Eurofreighter,s first voyage on BFO you might remember some of the names
Tom Sutherland Master. Alan Paterson c/o Charles Black 2/o Chris Walmsley 3/o Ed Collins ECO Gary Roberts 2nd RO Willie Purnell ch/Eng. Colin Booth 2nd Eng Gerry Morrison 3rd Eng Dave Wood 3rd Eng Robert Johnston Deck Cadet Jeremy Meek Eng Cadet Angus McAskill CPO Finlay Maclean PO Malcolm Macaulay GP1 Gerry Wardl GP1 Murdo Mackenzie GP1 Murdo Morrison GP1 John Macleod GP1 Michael Kelly GP1 Alex Cameron GP1 John Costa Cat Off Frank Love Cook Bob Bryce Stwd Mat Cherri Stwd John Glencross cat boy Campbell Millet cat boy Dave Anderson Seatrain Engineer.
It was a voyage to remember engine room fire and we lost both engines
TomS

John Cassels
11th October 2012, 18:20
When was this Tom?. I left the GTV's before the advent of BFO but many of
the names ring bells.

Tom S
11th October 2012, 18:26
When was this Tom?. I left the GTV's before the advent of BFO but many of
the names ring bells.

John
It was August 1976 we even managed to damage the new prop hen we came out of dry dock in Falmouth
Tom

Harry Grainger
11th October 2012, 21:46
The late Ryan O'Hare had two 'tall tales' told over some of the beers we enjoyed together:

1) He and Jimmy Holden boarded a plane having both remarked on the punishment a GG could take as evinced by two distorted compressor blades they had both noticed.

Plane took off only to make emergency landing with said engine vibrating fit to bust. On telling the pilot of the damage they had noticed they became "bloody fools" for having said nothing earlier. It was assumed that the damage was done as the engine was being shut down after the last landing.

2) at TPMS he witnessed the chicken test done with a frozen bird. The result was as the apocryphal story had it, GG all same bird - gutted.

(You must admit the temptation for all involved to know for sure what would happen must be great - it must have happend some time or even some times).

Another page without an Engineer from the days of the GTV's saying anything, someday I will try to correct some of the rubbish, but please along with Ryan O'Hare was James G Holburn ( not Jimmy Holden ). James G was among other things in Denholm's, in charge of cadets when I was interviewed and offered an "Indentured Apprenticeship" by him in 1965. Google the man and it tells you his input to Marine Engineering ! !

Gulpers
11th October 2012, 22:03
Southbound NY to Baltimore....

EUROLINER southbound making about 25 knots. Two or three miles away on our starboard beam making same speed northbound... another gtv..... in the middle between us doing about 10 knots...the GINA MARIA. Would have made a great photo!

Bloody hell - Gina Maria making 10 knots - that must have been a good day. I spent a great deal of time on that dear old girl going round in circles due to excessively worn teeth on the steering quadrant.

Stephen J. Card
11th October 2012, 22:40
Bloody hell - Gina Maria making 10 knots - that must have been a good day. I spent a great deal of time on that dear old girl going round in circles due to excessively worn teeth on the steering quadrant.



Ray,

Were you on the GM when she grounded off Belieze?

Neil B Morrison was 2nd Mate.

Stephen