Grimsby Fishing Vessels

Pages : 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9

trotterdotpom
12th March 2008, 17:58
Thanks Gil - Rick Wakeman was partially right I suppose.

John T.

mattarosa
12th March 2008, 18:44
Thanks to everyone for the help. Just to put a seal on it, I hope a fine painter won't mind me posting a thumbnail of one of his excellent paintings!

Hilary

Magnus Ganson
25th March 2008, 17:11
Hi all
Can anyone help me a little with the history of Ross Revenge? I have two numbers for her - GY709 and GY718 but I'm not clear whether this is the same trawler and if so, why the different numbers?

I see a notice on the Ross Revenge site calling for old crew members to help make a documentary. Not sure if that is up to date, anyone know any more about it? That would be an interesting history, I think.

Hilary

Hilary I sailed as mate on the Ross Revenge in 1971,I have been contacted by Alan Beech who is hoing to get a few of the old crew members together to make a 'fishing video' they would spend a weekend on board sharing memories and experiences, he is hoping it will happen sometime this summer. Magnus

Steve Farrow
25th March 2008, 18:33
Magnus,
Have you been in touch with her old skipper, John Meadows, he may well be interested!

Steve

Magnus Ganson
25th March 2008, 20:37
Magnus,
Have you been in touch with her old skipper, John Meadows, he may well be interested!

Steve

Hi Steve I haven't heard from John for years,I don't know where he's got to.

Magnus Ganson
25th March 2008, 20:39
Hi Steve I haven't heard from John for years,I don't know where he's got to.
My brother still lives in cleethorpes,although I live down in Kent

mattarosa
25th March 2008, 22:55
Hilary I sailed as mate on the Ross Revenge in 1971,I have been contacted by Alan Beech who is hoing to get a few of the old crew members together to make a 'fishing video' they would spend a weekend on board sharing memories and experiences, he is hoping it will happen sometime this summer. Magnus


Hi Magnus
That's good to hear. I wish you all luck with the project.
Kind regards
Hilary

gkh151
26th March 2008, 00:14
Magnus,

Did you know a friend of mine Scott Watson he was on the Revenge with John Meadows. He is now a Skipper himself. I think at the moment he has a stern dragger out of Iceland.

Graham

Steve Farrow
26th March 2008, 10:36
Hi Steve I haven't heard from John for years,I don't know where he's got to.

Hi Magnus,
John Meadows is still in Cleethorpes and lives a few streets away from me. I spoke to him on the phone a couple of months ago and he said he doesn't have a PC. A great pity because he could tell us so much!

Steve

Magnus Ganson
26th March 2008, 13:15
Hello Graham,the name rings a bell but there were so many crew members over the time I spent on the Revenge.I was mate of her from May 1971 to January 1972.

Magnus Ganson
26th March 2008, 13:20
Hi Magnus,
John Meadows is still in Cleethorpes and lives a few streets away from me. I spoke to him on the phone a couple of months ago and he said he doesn't have a PC. A great pity because he could tell us so much!

Steve

Thanks for that Steve, If you speak to John again please send him my regards,and you wont believe what he could tell you!!!!

nicolina
27th March 2008, 04:35
Hallo Magnus:
I have you as skipper on following Grimsby trawlers:
Northern Queen+Eagle+Chief+Isles
Ross Kashmir+Juno+Panther
Are they all OK and did you skipper other trawlers???

Ronnie Williams
27th March 2008, 08:42
I have a very old [and large] painting, off a Grimsby fishing smack called the
Clyde, going to the aid off a floundering sailing ship, the name appears to be
Mathilda registered Oria? the signature is covered by the old oak frame and I'm lothe to undo it, I've been trying to find out some information about it
I wondered if you could help thanks.
RW

gil mayes
27th March 2008, 09:34
Pic taken at Fleetwood, Raymond. As usual any corrections/additions gratefully received.
MALAGA (GY393) (1926-1935)
O.N. 146901. 271g n 125.7 x 23.5 x 12.7 feet
T.3-cyl by National Shipbuilding Co, Goderich, Ontario

1.1917: Orderered by The Admiralty (paid for and built under direction of RCN) (Canadian “Castle”- “T.R.” class) from Collingwood Shipbuilding Co Ltd, Ontario (Yd.No.59) and subcontracted to Dominion Shipbuilding Co Ltd (Thor Iron Works), Toronto. 15.6.1918: Completed as TR.13. 8.1919: Paid off and laid up. 1921: Accepted offer of Rose Street Foundry & Engineering Co Ltd, Inverness (Captain D. J. Munro) for reconditioning and lay-up prior to sale. Brought over at The Admiralty’s expense. 1920s: After renovation laid up in Caledonian Canal. 9.1926: Sold to Boston Deep Sea Fishing & Ice Co Ltd, Fleetwood (Fred Parkes, manager). 22.9.1926: Renamed Malaga (GY393); fishing out of Fleetwood. 14.12.1929: Sailed Fleetwood for West of Scotland/Butt of Lewis grounds. 27.12.1929: Berthed at Stornoway with forecastle and fish room flooded having struck submerged rocks off Butt of Lewis. 5/6/7.1933: Chartered by Italian Government to provide support for a transAtlantic flight involving 20 to 30 aeroplanes. 9.5.1933: Sailed Fleetwood for NW Atlantic. 19.5.1933: Arrived St. John’s, Newfoundland. 18.10.1935: On a trip to West of Scotland grounds (Sk. G. A. Novo). In severe storm conditions, missing off Portrush, Co. Antrim; crew of twelve lost. 20.12.1935: Grimsby registry closed.
Gil.

Magnus Ganson
27th March 2008, 14:28
Hallo Magnus:
I have you as skipper on following Grimsby trawlers:
Northern Queen+Eagle+Chief+Isles
Ross Kashmir+Juno+Panther
Are they all OK and did you skipper other trawlers???

Hello Nicolina, yes they are all correct. I was also skipper of the Ross Kandahar, Ross Kelly,Ross Tiger, and theNorthern Sea

gkh151
27th March 2008, 17:13
Hi Magnus,

Just out of interest when where you skipper of the Tiger and what did you think to her. I was there with Bill Hodson in 1971.

Graham

Magnus Ganson
27th March 2008, 17:39
Hi Magnus,

Just out of interest when where you skipper of the Tiger and what did you think to her. I was there with Bill Hodson in 1971.

Graham

Hi Graham, I was skipper of the Tiger in1977,I was also mate of her with Dennis Avery after that, she was a fine boat.

billblow
27th March 2008, 19:46
Magnus
Jimmy Sheader Jag, Zebra, etc signed on here but I don't see much activity from him but hopefully he will see some of these threads and respond
billblow

mattarosa
28th March 2008, 13:22
I have a very old [and large] painting, off a Grimsby fishing smack called the
Clyde, going to the aid off a floundering sailing ship, the name appears to be
Mathilda registered Oria? the signature is covered by the old oak frame and I'm lothe to undo it, I've been trying to find out some information about it
I wondered if you could help thanks.
RW

Ronnie
Do you have any idea of date or location? There was a fatal collision between 2 steamships, one being called Mathilda, off Flamborough Head in December 1925. There is a Clyde GY317, built in 1891, but I think that was a steam trawler and not a fishing smack.

If the 1925 incident was the right one, there are a few more details in the Times, but I am rather doubtful whether this is the right time.

Hilary

Magnus Ganson
28th March 2008, 16:04
Magnus
Jimmy Sheader Jag, Zebra, etc signed on here but I don't see much activity from him but hopefully he will see some of these threads and respond
billblow

Have you been on the Grimsby skippers site??

Ronnie Williams
28th March 2008, 23:33
Ronnie
Do you have any idea of date or location? There was a fatal collision between 2 steamships, one being called Mathilda, off Flamborough Head in December 1925. There is a Clyde GY317, built in 1891, but I think that was a steam trawler and not a fishing smack.

If the 1925 incident was the right one, there are a few more details in the Times, but I am rather doubtful whether this is the right time.

Hilary

thanks for answering my query,the Matilda is definately a sailing ship, the trawler could well be steam, I'll try to post a photograph, but I dont know how it will come out, it has glass in the frame and the reflection may distort the image
ronnie

mattarosa
29th March 2008, 12:36
Happy Saturday everyone!

I am looking for a little help to solve an inconsistency.

On my list of Grimsby trawlers I have one GY300 called MORVINA. The source appears to be Olsens 1916. I have checked and Olsen 1916 definitely says Morvina.

However, someone just sent me a picture of GY300 NORVINA (this is clearly typed on the caption).

Does anyone know which is the correct name for this trawler, please?

Hilary

davetodd
29th March 2008, 15:00
1934 edition of Olsen's Almanac gives:-
MORVINA O.N. 137004 GY300 Call letters MFNZ Nett Ton. 109
Horse power 75 Built 1914 at Beverley Owner Kottingham T.Co.Ltd. Grimsby

Miramar Ship index gives:-
Morvina O.N. 1137004 Trawler Gross Ton. 226 built 1914 by C.W.&Gemmel at Beverley.
Wrecked off N.Egilsay 13.5.36

Conclusion is that the name on the picture "Norvina" is in error.
Best regards
Dave

Steve Farrow
29th March 2008, 15:14
I have a photo of this vessel and it also states NORVINA, but looking closely it seems the name on the bow is MORVINA and she has Kottingham funnel markings. Black top, red bottom seperated by a white star on a black band between two white bands.

I have attached a painting of the Rononia belonging to the same company.

Bill might help if I've got this wrong!

Steve

mattarosa
29th March 2008, 15:26
Thank you, Dave and Steve. You guys are great. Your pic is the same as the one I was sent, Steve, though yours is better quality. You can see the caption, which clearly says Norvina, but based on your conclusions, I will file it as Morvina. Thanks for the help.

Hilary

mattarosa
29th March 2008, 15:30
[QUOTE=Steve Farrow;203359]

I have attached a painting of the Rononia belonging to the same company.

Your painting of the Rononia is lovely, Steve. I'd love to have all your paintings collected in a book, but I've taken the hint and won't mention it!

Steve Farrow
29th March 2008, 16:03
Ha!..........Maybe one day Hilary! I am about to post the Reperio in the Gallery!

I think the mis-naming may be a 'Typing error' in our local paper that has done an excellent job of reproducing a series of old postcards, and this has been one of them.
This is becoming more common as time passes, simply because the older editors and reporters that grew up with the fishing industry are retiring and being replaced by younger people who have little knowlege of it. Pressures being what they are, do not allow them the luxury of time to cross referrence most features.
Two weeks ago there was a photo of the the Edlei, a seine netter (originally), sailing down the Humber, and the caption said it was a tug!
But I suppose everything afloat is now called a 'Boat', according to the media.

Been to the framers yet???

mattarosa
29th March 2008, 16:22
Been to the framers yet???

I left the painting with the framer when I visited my mum last weekend. I am hoping to get it back, framed the same at the Dolphin, next week, though the framer is slow sometimes so it might be the time after that. I will send you a pic of the Dolphin and the Seal (or Ranger) sailing together on my wall then.

Hilary

mattarosa
29th March 2008, 16:24
[QUOTE=Steve Farrow;203375]Ha!..........Maybe one day Hilary! I am about to post the Reperio in the Gallery!

I think the mis-naming may be a 'Typing error' in our local paper that has done an excellent job of reproducing a series of old postcards, and this has been one of them.
This is becoming more common as time passes, simply because the older editors and reporters that grew up with the fishing industry are retiring and being replaced by younger people who have little knowlege of it. Pressures being what they are, do not allow them the luxury of time to cross referrence most features.
Two weeks ago there was a photo of the the Edlei, a seine netter (originally), sailing down the Humber, and the caption said it was a tug!
But I suppose everything afloat is now called a 'Boat', according to the media.

[QUOTE]

Luckily there are people like you, and others on this site, who are knowledgeable and interested in sharing the knowledge.

I think even I could tell the difference between a seine netter and a tug, but I'm not sure!

Hilary

nicolina
29th March 2008, 18:12
Question regarding Grimsby trawler Night Watch GY 26
Charles B Cox has following:
Reistered: 2/1929 as Night Watch GY 26
Lost 10/38 register closed: Abandoned Sem Island 1/10-1937
Registered: 3/1939 as Murmansk GY 45
1940 Lost

The Beverley book has her as:
1929: Night Watch GY 26
2/10-1937 Lost Sem Island
1938: Salvaged
1939: Murmansk GY45
1940: Grounded at Brest France
1942: Salvaged and joined German Navy
1944: Reported missing War Loss

Miramar has her as:
1926: Night Watch
1939:R/N Murmansk
1947:R/N Oceanie
1969: Scrapped

My question was she a war loss ore did she survive and became an French vessel???

billblow
29th March 2008, 19:35
Steve
Just come across your mention of Kottingham's colours. Yes thats more or less as I have it but as usual there is always something comes along to make you think. There is around a tinted print or post card of the Rononia I think it is were there red funnel is much more of a pink. When in doubt I show both with a comment on my uncertainty. With Bacons as managers may guess would be they would use their red paint up so ergo red as Lindsey.........
Edit reason ....message for Steve. ....I'll post a Kottingham funnel on the markings forum

mattarosa
29th March 2008, 19:40
Steve
Just come across your mention of Kottingham's colours. Yes thats more or less as I have it but as usual there is always something comes along to make you think. There is around a tinted print or post card of the Rononia I think it is were there red funnel is much more of a pink. When in doubt I show both with a comment on my uncertainty. With Bacons as managers may guess would be they would use their red paint up so ergo red as Lindsey.........

You are right to be wary of prints and pictures. I once went to the Horse of the Year Show and found that many of the red riding coats I'd seen on TV were, in reality, faded to pink.

Steve Farrow
29th March 2008, 21:44
Nicolina,
I have the Murmansk (Nightwatch) as grounded on 17th June 1940 and abandoned. Salvaged in 1942 by the German Navy and commissioned as patrol boat PB 06. Lost in 1944. From Toghill's Royal Navy Trawlers.

Steve

Steve Farrow
29th March 2008, 21:57
Steve
Just come across your mention of Kottingham's colours. Yes thats more or less as I have it but as usual there is always something comes along to make you think. There is around a tinted print or post card of the Rononia I think it is were there red funnel is much more of a pink. When in doubt I show both with a comment on my uncertainty. With Bacons as managers may guess would be they would use their red paint up so ergo red as Lindsey.........
Edit reason ....message for Steve. ....I'll post a Kottingham funnel on the markings forum

Bill,
As you remark, there is always something to make you think! Some years ago, I contacted Tom Wood, (The local editor of Fishing News then) whose hobby and interest was trawler funnels. His father was a customs officer and when young Tom was taken on the docks, he was fascinated by the array of different colours of the ships, so he copied and recorded them.
It was Tom who told me when I was about to paint the Rononia, that Kottingham's had a red funnel that was a shade between red lead and pink. I noted this down in a book using a water colour wash, and tried to produce this in my painting but I feel it should have been a bit lighter.
Perhaps Edwin Bacon got his painters to mix a little white with his red!

Regards

Steve

billblow
30th March 2008, 08:36
Steve
Your photo of the Night Watch GY 26 she is carrying the all yellow funnel of the Nocturne S.F.Co Ltd a company in which Sir G.E.Moody was involved and possibly owner.

mattarosa
30th March 2008, 10:49
Hi Bill
Owner, per 1939 Olsen, is Nocturne Fishing Co Ltd.
Hilary

billblow
30th March 2008, 11:37
Hilary
This blooming S for Steam seems to come and go all the time with many of the companies full titles. Cox has Nocturne S F Co Ltd, Fleetwood Float has Nocturne S F Co Ltd and just had a peep on plimsollships and it has Nocturne F Co Ltd, and you say Olsens has Nocturne F Co Ltd. If and when I'm ready to put the disc out with the funnel's on I must find the most reliable source for the company titles.
Oh and Steam Trawling Co is often also Steam Trawl Co, I never know if it is to save space or if it is worth checking deeper.
Bill

mattarosa
30th March 2008, 13:23
Hilary
This blooming S for Steam seems to come and go all the time with many of the companies full titles. Cox has Nocturne S F Co Ltd, Fleetwood Float has Nocturne S F Co Ltd and just had a peep on plimsollships and it has Nocturne F Co Ltd, and you say Olsens has Nocturne F Co Ltd. If and when I'm ready to put the disc out with the funnel's on I must find the most reliable source for the company titles.
Oh and Steam Trawling Co is often also Steam Trawl Co, I never know if it is to save space or if it is worth checking deeper.
Bill

Bill
I see what you mean. Olsen definitely has Nocturne F Co Ltd in 1939, same in 1934 and 1938.

One of the members here is very interested in the fishing companies. Maybe Birgir? or Nicolina? They may be able to throw some light.

Do you think it possible that some of the company names changed from time to time, maybe even slight changes in the name, for tax reasons in the same way big corporations register and dissolve companies nowadays?

Hilary

mattarosa
30th March 2008, 13:29
Bill
I bid on, and won, some of those trawler funnel cards on ebay yesterday. Not sure which they are as it was a mixed lot. I will bear in mind your comments about the pretty colours, and wait for your authoritative disk to be available. We have seen how careful your research is, and I am sure we are all looking forward to seeing the results.
Hilary

mattarosa
31st March 2008, 17:58
I've just seen the attached advertised for sale on ebay. It is a reproduction.from a book I think, of a painting by Cecil King. The item is advertised as an Icelandic trawler but clearly bears the designation GY and the numbers 54. It is not clear whether it is GY54 as there is something obscuring where another number could be, so it could be GY540, 541, 542 etc. It's also not clear whether this is a painting of an actual Grimsby trawler.

Anyone know anything about this, or care to guess.

Hilary

billblow
31st March 2008, 22:06
Hilary
If it is a Grimsby trawler it's a poor copy. It's painted in 1904 and there were then.
GY 540 Germania GY 548 Cetus belonging to the Grimsby & North Sea Steam Trawling Co. Black funnel with very broad red band. GY 547 Plymouth owned by Hagerup & Doughty black funnel, broad yellow band with entwined HD on it. GY 546 Stromo owned by Henry Smethurst black funnel, broad greeny/blue band. GY 544 Zenobia owned in 1904 by W & A Lambert black funnel with flag of horizontal red white & blue stripes from top down and containing a black L.
Bill
Edit. reason comment. Thats why for folks carrying out reseach in the future a good data base of funnel liveries may be of some help to them in certain circumstances.
Bill

david.hopcroft
3rd April 2008, 13:33
Hi Clem

I wonder if you have a photo of the Ross Kandahar GY123. A friend is compiling an article and is looking for a photo. I was at Humber Radio for many years, so I remember all the names in your thread.

David
+

TSJ59
3rd April 2008, 20:04
David - Did you see the replies to your post re: Ross Kandahar in Ship Research?

Cheers, Terry

mattarosa
7th April 2008, 08:16
Here is the article about Ross Daring from Sidewinder. Hope it is of some interest.
Hilary

mattarosa
7th April 2008, 08:48
Here is a story involving the Ross Daring from the Times newspaper of Friday May 27, 1966

DIVE TO DEATH OFF SHIP
'Going home to see girlfriend'
Hull, May 26
When a trawler was four miles offshore after leaving for the fishing ground a spare hand, aged 19 said he was going home to see his girlfriend and dived overboard, it was stated today at a Board of Trade Inquiry here.
The inquiry was to confirm the skipper's log that the spare hand, Eric Fuller, of Hedon Road, Hull, and Clive Davies, aged 31, third hand, of Fountain Street, Hull, were lost, presumed drowned, from the Hull trawler, St Romanus, off Spurn Point.
Skipper Peter Grayburn, aged 31, of Hamlyn Avenue, Hull, said the ship had stopped for engine repair. Weather and visibility were good but there was a strong ebb current. After the two men dived in a message was sent to the Grimsby trawler Ross Daring nearby. A man dived overboard from her but, although he reached one of the other two men, the man sank and was lost. The Ross Daring man swam back to his ship.
Skipper Grayburn said he searched the area for an hour and a half.
After a trawler had sailed, he added, men often said they did not want to sail and were going over the side, but it was usually just talk. Fuller probably thought he could swim ashore.
Geoffrey Clarkson, mate, of Beecroft Street, Hull, said Fuller was looking forward to coming home again and to his forthcoming marriage.
The acting marine superintendent, Mr Stanley West, who conducted the inquiry, said the three men who attempted rescue, and particularly George Cooper of the Ross Daring. Their names were being forwarded to the proper authority. Davies lost his life going to the aid of a shipmate. The skipper's log was confirmed.

trotterdotpom
8th April 2008, 02:05
Recently someone asked where the names "lumpers" and "bobbers", the workers on the fish docks in Grimsby and Hull respectively, came from and why they used different names in each port. I'm not sure if it was on this thread or not.

I asked my friend Barney Warman (now 84 and former Radio Controller of Ross Trawlers), who worked on the Grimsby fishdock as a 14 year old in the late '30s, but he didn't know. He did however send me the following description of the fishdock which I thought might be of interest to Grimsby aficionados. I also asked about the clogs that the fishdock workers wore right up until the late '60s and maybe later.

"Yes I wore those Clogs, black hard leather tops, wooden soles which had the old steel quarter inch "shoe" nailed to them, and you wore the old hob socks with them. That was the footwear on the Grimsby Docks about the fish markets anyway,, one would be up ended on the slime blood and gore otherwise. I used to be at the Stand as each Merchants piece of the pontoon was called, at 0730 hrs and with one of the older men get up in the oft and sort out what fish boxes would be required to dispaatch the processed fish when prepared weighed and all that sort of thing. After that they had to be washed out and lined up ready. , then Bill and I had to get round to the market auctions which started at the Seine net boat end right up towards the Lockpits, you may have noticed all the small white boats there. then we would follow the sales along, collecting the boxes of fish ear marked with our particular Tally putting them on the barrow and getting them back to the Stand, then back again behind the Sales looking for our Tallies, collecting and rushing back to the stand and this went on all the way round to the last landing of fish on the old Pneumonia where the deep water vessels landed. So you would come through the prime fish Seine net stuff, Northsea stuff, Westard and n Scottish stuff . on to the Faroese landings then the deep water. The Gaffers would buy according to the trade in of course. This process could be over by say 1100 hrs then it would be all let loose to get the 12 o clock earlies prepared, packed and away to the allocated train wagons which as you know were all round the pontoons. Then you could have your lunch feeling knackered, that took about 20/30 mins then back to the graft
and believe me it was always non stop especially Mon and Thurs. You could perhaps have it all over and go home say from 1700 to 1900 hrs. Each firm had its own off pontoon office and there you would go to remove your clogs and hob socks a process which exuded enough steam to run a cylender. Then cycle home. Hell John they were busy days."

I asked Barney how the deep water pontoon bacame known as "Pneumonia" and he sent me some more info:

"Grimsby pontoon, hell it was a crazy place especially on those heavilly fished mkts, following those sales and literally fighting to get your "tallied boxes " of fish onto your barrow and when you had loaded with about 12 or more 10 stone boxes on it getting it back to your "Stand" unloading it and then back to the sales for more. If the gaffers went mad and bought a load of fish with having a lot of trade in then we could have a lorry or horse and cart as they were still on the go then. Yes that long pontoon where the deep water vessles landed was called Pneumonia for some reason it got all the wind and bad wx in winter time and the lads working on the stands along it really felt the wx. The clogs were our own. and had to be cared for with wax was it / and the Horse shoes on the soles were always wearing out or coming adrift resulting in you tripping up occasionally so they had to be renewed. I went there on leaving school at 14, my dad got me in with his old school pals who were then Fish Merchants
It really was donkeys work John, as Ive said when we had finished and we went off the Stand to the office to unrig etc I was near too tired to take the dam clogs off, butof course I did after having five minutes breather, on the old bike and home. Sometimes if we finished early I would stop on the Stand wehn the others had gone home and salvidge some of the fish that had been put in those big offal barrels and practice filleting etc. , and taking some home, when I think back now as writing this they were such happy days really.
I left it in 1941 and enlisted into the RAF in May of that year."

When I asked Barney if it was OK to put his stuff on SN, he replied with the following:

"Well if I had known you wanted to put that GY Pontoon stuff onto the market I could have embelished it more, but was only thinking about it this mng when walking the park, that pontoon from one end (near the lock pits ) to the other end at Pneumonia was at early mng auction times like looking at those Equitorial Ant marches you see on the TV, then when it is all calmed down and all the fishmerchants have their respective quantitiies of fish on their stands the business of cleaning it filleting it and packing it into the different sized boxes according to recieved mail o rders to hand. Icehouse men continually rolling up large kits of ice to cntral points which you collect from when needed on your stand, Offal barrels in the same way, and all the time trying to keep the stand clear so you can pack fish into the boxes, ice them up and nail them shut and stand other boxes on top and go through that process until all the orders to hand are contained. Then came the time to stand the Tallied boxes up and load them onto your barrows for delivery about the pontoon to wherever yor wagon to Coventry, Hitchen, Norweich etc may be. As you came to these required wagons you unloaded respective boxes and then the Dockboard men with their little barrows would run them into the wagons and stack them up inside. Whilst one or two of you were doing this routine the rest of the staff usually the filleters would be icing back the unsold fish and cleaning up the stand. On that last job I had before enlisting there was Albert drayton the gaffer, his foreman Ted Cullum, two filleters Danny and Alf, then there was Bill Lowe who I horseworked with, he was crackers, one of those that would go red in the face and beserk when rummaging about those huge fish squares for our tallied kits. Hell he was a fanatic and I think everyone on the docks knew it. I used to like packing those orders, you would have your say 10 stone box there all clean and iced, a layer of grease proof, in goes for Mr.smith say of Peterborough, 4 stone of headless cod, a layer of ice, 2 stone of 1 lb plaice, 2 stone of cat fish fillets, layer of ice and perhaps a stone of crabs., cover it with grease proof, ice it up bang on the lids nail up and there she was. Hell i can feel it all now."

Hard times.

John T.

davetodd
8th April 2008, 11:53
Barra-boys with clogs on, skidding down the wet concrete ramps, no brakes, no steering except by an art learnt after many collisions and scattered boxes of fish accompanied by much shouting and swearing.
This activity along with many others went on for decades.
The lack of brakes was matched in the "Fish Dock" lorries, which were ex-WW2 service vehicles of any type you can think of.
No number plates, no insurance, no indicators, no lights, maybe a brake now and then. Never allowed off the docks but went anyway.
Exciting times, busy times.
Thank you for reminding us of the atmosphere John T.

One correction for you.
Hob socks is spelt ABB Socks.
You have clearly related what you heard and probably added the "h" to "ob"
Abb wool was/is a rough thick wool which still contains quite a lot of the natural oil. Makes it somewhat water repelant.

Thanks again.

Dave
and no licence required to drive them.

trotterdotpom
8th April 2008, 12:20
No worries Dave. I just cut and pasted what Barney sent, but I'll pass your reply on to him. He'll be pleased you liked it.

John T.

Charles Madsen
8th April 2008, 15:20
Hi to all, I was very interested in the scandanabian skippers sailing out of Grimsby. Does anyone know of my father Ivar Kristen Madsen whos seiner the LA Madsen LO276 (Previous LO 269) was lost with all hands in 1949 while sailing out of Grimsby.
We lived in Vivian Avenue and where neighbors with Sigi Thorensen the Icelandic Skipper.
I can find no recorded record of the ships loss.

mattarosa
8th April 2008, 15:20
[QUOTE=trotterdotpom;206518]

Barney Warman (now 84 and former Radio Controller of Ross Trawlers), who worked on the Grimsby fishdock as a 14 year old in the late '30s

Hi John
I found Barney's recollections very interesting. I didn't have much idea what lumpers did (I thought they only unloaded the trawlers). A friend's father was a lumper, but that would have been after the Second World War. I have also collected a few postcards of the pontoon at Grimsby but, for some reason, they seem to be all around 1900-1910. I am really glad Barney didn't get the chance to embellish his descriptions, for they are wonderfully vivid just as they are.

Hilary

Happy Days
8th April 2008, 16:37
any information on this trawler i believe my grandfather was on her when she was lost

Hello willie howe, my father was skipper of the Guava but left her just before she was lost, I knew your grandparents and went to school with one of their sons. Whose son are you? I believe I have a photo of the Guava somewhere and I know I have the order of service leaflet from the Memorial Service held in Lowestoft giving the names of the crew.
I lived in Fir Lane in Lowestoft.
Contact me if I can give you any more info,
Happy Days

misskiss
10th April 2008, 09:14
hi my nan only had 1 son Alan Fisher and my mum Sheila Fisher so you went to school with Alan who now lives in Australia and has done for 42 years. i would love any info you have copied i would refund any costs if you give me your personal e mail/ address etc i like to get new info for my mum as a surprise. my name is jill gurney thankyou so much jill xxxxx
(Address and email removed as this is a public site. Please use the private message system to exchange such details)

Magnus Ganson
20th April 2008, 21:42
Very quiet on here, where is every body

nicolina
22nd April 2008, 12:35
Hallo Magnus:

Who would you consider to be one of Grimsbys most consistent distant water trawler skippers regarding catching fish/ making moneys?????

What about a top 10 list ???

rexy
24th April 2008, 13:20
Does anybody have a photo of the NORTHERN REWARD LO168 built 1936 and initially sailing out of Fleetwood but later being transferred to Grimsby GY431
rexy

timo
24th April 2008, 14:19
nicolina, I belive Jonny Meadows made quite a bit of money (Ross Revenge), Cocker Mussel and Don Lister landed many a good trip too some of the middle water skippers landed with regular good settlings as well, Hull had some top earners, Billy Brettel and Roy Waller are 2 names that come to mind.

john hill
24th April 2008, 19:21
hi anybody
do you know of any history about the trawler the northern reward

john hill
24th April 2008, 19:24
i would also like any information on the trawler 'FAVORITA'

john hill
24th April 2008, 19:26
Does anybody have a photo of the NORTHERN REWARD LO168 built 1936 and initially sailing out of Fleetwood but later being transferred to Grimsby GY431
rexy

Hi what conection do you have with the northern reward please, think that my g/father was killed on this vessel in 1937 when the reward was going to the aid of tyhe stranded trawler FAVORITA

osta
24th April 2008, 19:36
i have photo of vessel in war rig just come across another one with a/s coldstreamer astern in convoy duty

rexy
24th April 2008, 20:08
i have photo of vessel in war rig just come across another one with a/s coldstreamer astern in convoy duty

I ve spoken to my father and even though t is a photo of the trawler after his father served on it he would be delighted to see it.
thanks very much....if anybodys wondering John Hill is my cousin, so James Robinson is OUR grandad.

Kerbtrawler
28th April 2008, 19:57
Does anybody have a photo of the NORTHERN REWARD LO168 built 1936 and initially sailing out of Fleetwood but later being transferred to Grimsby GY431
rexy

Hi Rexy
have a look at my web site
just click on the link at the bottom of this email and go to Grimsby trawlers then onto Northerns
the one your looking for is at the bottom of the page

cheers

johnblack5
30th April 2008, 10:00
Hello
As part of the search for Captain John Smith 10474 I have found that he served on 3 trawlers all out of Grimsby:
Russel in 1911 GY192
Godra in 1913
Anson in 1911 GY976)(it seems that this names was changed a number of times: Saturn-Lindern-Macedonia.

Do you have any other information on these vessels ?.

Can you recommend a book showing life as a fisherman in Grimsby 1900-1940

Yoiurs is a super site.


John

mattarosa
30th April 2008, 12:48
Hi John
I agree, this is a wonderful site, with many knowledgeable and helpful members.

Re your question about books, "Out of Grimsby" by Alf May is about a fishing family and covers from the 1830s to the 1930s so far as I remember.

I'm sure other members will suggest others.

Good luck with your research.
Hilary

JANE MILLER
8th May 2008, 21:55
I am trying to trace any information I can about the Rononia. My grandfather was lost with this trawler in 1942 and I am trying to put as much info together for my father who will be 75 in July. He was only 9 years old when my grandfather was lost but he can remember visiting the trawler with his dad on many occassions. If you have any pictures or prints, I would be very grateful if you could let me have copies.

Hoping you can help. Kind regards,

jane Miller

Santos
8th May 2008, 22:03
Jane,

There is a painting of Rononia on this site at http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showth...t=6320&page=41 just put in the link and scroll down to post 1024 by Steve Farrow - he posted the painting.

Also there is a mention of the sinking here (http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/1400.html)

Also quite alot of information on the RONONIA here (http://www.fleetwood-trawlers.info/rononia.html)

Kind regards
Chris.

Yorvick
8th May 2008, 23:13
My father spent his working teenage years pre WW2 fishing the arctic circle on his father's trawler he has written a small journal describing his experiences - if you wish I can send extracts to you. His whole family going back many generations were fishermen from Grimsby and Hull, and he writes of 7 uncles who drowned honourably at sea. My gg Grandmother was widowed twice 1864 and 1880 by the death of her husbands at sea. But it did not stop her sons, nor her daughters becoming involved in the fishing industry. Just let me know if you are interested in seeing the extracts.

davetodd
9th May 2008, 00:10
Hello
As part of the search for Captain John Smith 10474 I have found that he served on 3 trawlers all out of Grimsby:
Russel in 1911 GY192
Godra in 1913
Anson in 1911 GY976)(it seems that this names was changed a number of times: Saturn-Lindern-Macedonia.

Do you have any other information on these vessels ?.

Can you recommend a book showing life as a fisherman in Grimsby 1900-1940

Yoiurs is a super site.


John
Hello John
Russell Steam trawler O.N.123585 built 1906 at Beverley 248 gross tons for A.Grant GY192 Served as minesweeper from 1915 for R.N. as Russell II
Then with H.L.Taylor Owner. Broken up in 1957.

Anson Steam trawler O.N. 118943 built 1905 at Beverley 83 net tons
In 1934 the owner was Chas.Dobson port no.GY47. Nothing further known.

Godra?
Could this be ?
GADRA Steam trawler O.N. 127847 built 1909 at Beverley 219 gross tons 106 net tons. Owner Howe S.F.Co. GY485. ( One photograph at Grimsby Library )
Mined 1941.

Hope this is of some help.

Best Regards
Dave

Roger Griffiths
15th May 2008, 20:02
Hello all,
Steam trawler DINORAH 118304 GY1107, 192grt, had been sailing from Grimsby to the North Sea fishing grounds when she detonated a mine on the 28th April 1945 and sank off Bridlington with the loss of 11 crew.
I have her owner as A A Davidson in 1938. Was he still the owner at the time of her loss?

thanks and regards

Roger

gil mayes
15th May 2008, 20:57
Roger, this is what we have at FMHT. As usual grateful for any corrections/additions.
DINORAH (GY1107) (1944-1945)
O.N. 118304. 192g 37n 110.0 x 21.0 x 11.2 feet
T.3-cyl by N.E. Marine Engineering Co Ltd, Sunderland

6.1903: Launched by Smith’s Dock Co Ltd, North Shields (Yd.No.698) for The Castle Steam Trawlers Ltd, London (G. H. D. Birt, manager) as Picton Castle. 7.1903: Completed. Registered at London (LO177). 23.7.1903: Sailed Milford for SW of Ireland grounds (Sk. Joseph Huddlestone). 30.7.1903: Returned Milford with boiler trouble. 31.7.1903: Leaking tube caulked. 1.8.1903: Sailed for fishing grounds. 3.8.1903: Boiler tube leaking again. 4.8.1903: At about 11.30 p.m. a boiler explosion occurred; Michael Kennedy, fireman killed and Nicholas Atkinson, Chief Engineer badly scalded (subsequently died in hospital). Put into Berehaven (Castletown), Co. Cork. 1.10.1903: BOT Inquiry at Milford found that the explosion was caused by the back of the combustion chamber being encrusted with salt and soot and not kept clear. 8.1906: London registry closed. 13.8.1906: Registered at Swansea (SA??). 13.8.1906: G. H. D. Birt, Milford Haven appointed manager. 29.8.1906: Crawford Heron, Swansea appointed manager. 9.1906. Sold to Emprela Lisbonesa, Lisbon. 1.10.1906: Swansea registry closed. 10.1906: Renamed Dinorah (B459). 1911: Sold to W. H. Dodds, Aberdeen. Registered at Aberdeen (A505). 8.1914: Requisitioned for war service and converted for minesweeping duties (Ad. No. 288). 11.1917: Sold to Overseas Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (W. H. Beeley, manager). Registered at Grimsby (GY1107). 1919: Returned. 9.1920: Sold to Bowering’s Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Beeley & Sleight Ltd, managers). 12.1932: Sold to John Buchan, Aberdeen. 1935: Sold to Gorspen Steam Trawling Co Ltd, Aberdeen (A. J. Spence, manager. 1936: Sold to A. A. Davidson, Aberdeen. 12.1940: Sold to J. Bennett (Wholesale) Ltd, Grimsby (W. A. Bennett, manager). 10.1944: Sold to Thornton Trawlers Ltd, Fleetwood (J. Marr & Son Ltd, manager). 28.4.1945: Foundered off Bridlington, believed by mine contact. All crew lost*. (Lost* - W.G. Dyble, A.E. Dyer, F. Rix, A.R. Quantrill, R.H. Lott, T. Balderson, C.F. Mortlock, J.T. Lamb, R.G. Rowbotham, E.G. Bacon, C. Kirk).
Gil.

Roger Griffiths
15th May 2008, 22:14
Hello Gil,
Thank you very much for your usual comprehensive reply.

best regards
Roger

gil mayes
16th May 2008, 08:27
Roger, the Fleetwood Steam Trawler Database would be nothing like as comprehensive without your input over the years.

Small correction, typo,etc, Grimsby registration date should read.
"1917: Sold to Overseas Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (W. H. Beeley, manager). 9.11.1917: Aberdeen registry closed. 12.11.1917: Registered at Grimsby (GY1107)".
Gil.

Don Armour
20th May 2008, 16:56
Hello Magnus,

Just found this forum, saw your name and thought I'd drop you a line.

Don Armour
Radio Op
Ross Kelvin 1969/70

johnblack5
22nd May 2008, 20:57
Hi Hilary
Many thanks I will look out for it. I now have Trawlers of Humberside which is very interesting.

John

johnblack5
22nd May 2008, 21:04
Hi Dave

Many thanks for the info. I purchased the crew lists for the listed boats which are very interesting. The name was listed incorrectly in the NELC archives, as you say it is GADRA. Any idea as to who I should contact for a copy of the photo.
It seems that at 13 years of age he was living in Northwich, at 21 he was a deck hand and at 25 a skipper. I suspect he may have attended a training scholl in Grimsby but none of the information is on line, Kew is very expensive, £45 to look for simple things.
Anyway, I am getting there slowly.

Thanks again

John

davetodd
23rd May 2008, 00:45
John
I will have a look at the photo of the GADRA at Grimsby library next week and let you know the quality and how to purchase it.

Have re-checked the "Anson" GY976.
As far as I can find, the Anson did not have the Number GY976
GY976 was built in 1916 at Goole and was originally the COMMANDER LINDEN.
Bought by T.Robinson and renamed MACEDONIAN
Served in WW2 as SATURN Pennant No. FY823 as Minesweeper and Esso (Fuel carrier) returned to commercial use December 1945. Broken up 1961.
The date you gave for J.Smith's service on Anson was 1911 which seems to be in conflict with the build date of Commander Linden 1916!
Are you certain of the service dates?

Grimsby library have a photo of the Macedonian and I will look at that also.
But it may not be the one you are looking for.
Best Regards
Dave

johnblack5
23rd May 2008, 08:39
Hello
I would be interested in reading this. My Grandfather John Smith was a deck hand on a Grimsby trawler at 21 (1909) and a skipper at 25. He died of old age in Grimsby with many relatives but so far I cannot find one of them.

Regards



John

johnblack5
23rd May 2008, 08:42
Hi Dave
I also found this discrepancy. I obtained my data from the crew list.RefNo 208/5/55/47

Repository Archive
Title Anson
Date 1911
Description vessel Anson; owner Wm Grant; skipper Geo H Green, certificate 4766. Crew: Geo H Green 4766 Skipper Aged 39 Leeds, R E George 8364 2nd Hand 28 Gorleston, T Law 1st Eng 35 New Holland, R Greenacre 2nd Eng 29 Kings Lynn, W C Cook 3rd Hand 21 Grimsby, J Duffield 4th Hand 26 Manchester, W Townsend 4th Hand 24 Grimsby, J Brooks Trimmer 42 Leytonstone, E Huntingdon Steward 46 Hartlepool, R Greenacre 1st Eng 29 Kings Lynn, W Fisher 2nd Eng 23 Hull, G Johnson 4th Hand 51 Birkenhead, F Smith Trimmer 53 Bury St Edmunds, W Townsend 4th Hand 24 Grimsby, T Rising 4th Hand 38 Gorleston, John Smith 10474 Mate 23 Northwich, T Law 1st Eng 35 New Holland, G Greenacre 2nd Eng 29 Kings Lynn, A George 8364 Mate 28 Gorleston, J Brooks Trimmer 42 Leytondstone, H Canfield Spare Hand 20 Ipswich, E Webster 2nd Eng 28 Grimsby, R Greenacre 2nd Eng 29 Kings Lynn, J Woolnough 3rd Hand 50 Lowestoft, J Ayers 2nd Eng 48 Leeds, J Duffield 4th Hand 26 Manchester, E Hetherington Steward 47 Hartlepool, H Emmerson 3rd Hand 24 Notts, S Rising 4th Hand 39 Gorleston, G Mackin Trimmer 31 Queenstown, S Codd 8678 2nd Hand 28 Barrow Haven.

This can be seen on the NELC archives.

johnblack5
23rd May 2008, 08:46
Dave
I have just checked the crew list, the Anson is listed as GY47, not sure where I got the other number from. John

johnblack5
23rd May 2008, 08:52
Hi Dave
I found an earlier record where he served on the St George GY83 as a deck hand age 21, info on NLEC site but I searched under Northwich to find it. It seems as if all the records run out in 1913, prehaps this is where the details were transferred to Kew. He was listed on my fathers marriage certificate as being a skipper in 1934 and he died of old age in Grimsby, date unknown so far.

John

Roger Griffiths
23rd May 2008, 21:16
Hello John,
It is important when searching for details of British vessels and in particular fishing boats that you use the vessels Official Number. This number is unique to the vessel no matter how many name changes and different ports she may have been registered at.
For example ANSON O/N109835 on GY register 2/12/1898 GY976 lost 5/6/1904
ANSON O/N 118943 on GY register 21/5/1905 GY47. Same name different vessel.
That said I cannot find crew lists in the timescale for the vessels you mention.
I think you would be better served looking for his Skippers certificates and working backwards.
The following is From the National Archives website.


9. Later records, c. 1910 onwards
From 1910, a combined index to masters, mates, engineers and skippers and mates of fishing boats was started to replace those formerly kept in registers (BT 127 , BT 138 and BT 141 ). The term index for this collection (as used in RGSS) is misleading: it is not an index to any other records. In effect it replaced the earlier registers and indexes and became a self-indexing register. It was kept in card form covering the period 1910 to 1930. It covers home and foreign trade and each card gives:

Name
Certificate number
Date of passing
Date and place of birth
Rating
Port of examination
The cards are of different colours depending on the type of qualification; white cards are for masters and mates, pink cards are for Engineers and green for Skippers and Mates of fishing boats. The index is available, on microfiche, as Index to Certificates of Competency, Masters, Mates, Engineers and Fishing Officers, Home and Foreign Trade, 1910-1930 (BT 352 ). Information found in this class often falls outside the nominal dates indicated.

Chronological registers of the issue, or reissue of certificates are to be found in:

BT 317 Registers of Masters and Mates Certificates Passings and Renewal (1917-1977)
BT 318 Registers of Examinations for Certificates of Masters, Mates and Engineers, Returns of Passings and Failures (1928-1981)
BT 320 Register of Engineers Passes and Renewals (1913-1935) [in process of transfer], these records are to be found at the National Maritime Museum under references RSS/ENG/5-6.
BT 396 Registers of Passes and Renewals of Certificates of Competency for Fishing Officers (Skippers and 2nd hands) 1883-1959
These registers give brief details of the issue of certificates. The entries are arranged in date order and give:

Date received
Christian name
When [examined]
No
Grade
Port sent to
Surname
Port of examination
Date


Dave,
I cannot find details of the previous names you mention for SATURN O/N 138985. As fare as I know she was taken by the RN directly from the builders and kept the name SATURN throughout her life. Could you give me your source please.


Thanks and regards

Roger

davetodd
24th May 2008, 00:14
Roger,
After checking my information, here are the sources:-
Saturn GY976 WW1 Admiralty No.2971 from Dittmar & Colledge
Saturn GY976 O.N. 138985 MGFC built 1916 Goole Owner Trawlers ( White Sea & Grimsby ) Ltd Grimsby from 1934 Olsen's Fishermans Nautical Almanack.
Saturn FY823 WW2 from Lenton & Colledge
Saturn GY976 O.N.138985 MGFC built 1916Goole Owner Trawlers Grimsby Ltd.
from 1947 Olsen's Fisherman's Nautical Almanack.
Macedonian GY976 O.N.138985 MGFC built 1916 Goole Owner Lindern Fishing Co.Ltd Grimsby from 1960 Olsen's Fisherman's Nautical Almanack.
I now can see that the other names (Commander and Lindern) may be in error.
These two names appear on the excellent FLOAT website when searching for Saturn or Macedonian. I'm sure you are familiar with this website Roger.
Next week I will check Olsens entry for 1960 with Lloyds Register.
Regards
Dave

davetodd
24th May 2008, 00:27
Hi Dave
I found an earlier record where he served on the St George GY83 as a deck hand age 21, info on NLEC site but I searched under Northwich to find it. It seems as if all the records run out in 1913, prehaps this is where the details were transferred to Kew. He was listed on my fathers marriage certificate as being a skipper in 1934 and he died of old age in Grimsby, date unknown so far.

John
John,
Making some guesses now:-
Was your Grandfather apprenticed as a fisherman in Grimsby?
If so, then John Wilson at the N.E.Lincs Archives will have that record I'm sure.
Many fishermen joined the RNR during the times that you give for your Grandfather's service. It is most likely that he joined also.
If that is the case, then the National Archives should have his service records. BT 377/7 is the index by name for the Trawler section.
Finally, do you have any addresses for John Smith in all of your data.
Address was sometimes written for a crewman in the ships crew list that you have quoted with the 208 prefix.
I have a 1911 local directory for Grimsby & Cleethorpes which I can look through if you have any addresses as a starting point.

Regards
Dave

johnblack5
24th May 2008, 09:43
Hi John
I agree, this is a wonderful site, with many knowledgeable and helpful members.

Re your question about books, "Out of Grimsby" by Alf May is about a fishing family and covers from the 1830s to the 1930s so far as I remember.

I'm sure other members will suggest others.

Good luck with your research.
Hilary

Hi Hilary
I found a copy on Abebooks.com so I will be able to learn more on the lives of Trawlermen. Many thanks for your help.

John

johnblack5
25th May 2008, 16:44
Hi Dave
I found an earlier record where he served on the St George GY83 as a deck hand age 21, info on NLEC site but I searched under Northwich to find it. It seems as if all the records run out in 1913, prehaps this is where the details were transferred to Kew. He was listed on my fathers marriage certificate as being a skipper in 1934 and he died of old age in Grimsby, date unknown so far.

John

Some more information concering the daughter Christine. She married a Benjamin Reynolds who was killed by a mine shortly after the war ended, one very unlucky man.

No Surname
Rank
Service Number
Date Of Death
Age
Regiment/Service
Nationality
Grave/Memorial Ref.
Cemetery/Memorial Name

1 REYNOLDS, BENJAMIN THOMAS NICHOLSON
Second Hand 24/04/1946 31 Fishing Fleet United Kingdom Panel 125. TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

Ships listed are as follows:

HMT Earl Essex

Built 7/1/1914

Launched 1/4/1914

Earl Steam Fishing Co. Ltd Grimsby

Requisitioned by the RN August 1914 and used as a minesweeper Pennant No. FY 292

Between the wars she returned to Grimsby in her role as a fishing trawler.

Requisitioned by the RN November 1939 and used once again as a minesweeper Pennant No. FY 852

Returned 29/2/1946

24/4/1946 while fishing in the North Sea a mine got caught in the trawl and exploded sinking the vessel. Trawler Vera Grace that was fishing near to Earl Essex and had seen the explosion picked up only one survivor. 10 crew were lo

johnblack5
26th May 2008, 18:30
Hello John,
It is important when searching for details of British vessels and in particular fishing boats that you use the vessels Official Number. This number is unique to the vessel no matter how many name changes and different ports she may have been registered at.
For example ANSON O/N109835 on GY register 2/12/1898 GY976 lost 5/6/1904
ANSON O/N 118943 on GY register 21/5/1905 GY47. Same name different vessel.
That said I cannot find crew lists in the timescale for the vessels you mention.
I think you would be better served looking for his Skippers certificates and working backwards.
The following is From the National Archives website.


9. Later records, c. 1910 onwards
From 1910, a combined index to masters, mates, engineers and skippers and mates of fishing boats was started to replace those formerly kept in registers (BT 127 , BT 138 and BT 141 ). The term index for this collection (as used in RGSS) is misleading: it is not an index to any other records. In effect it replaced the earlier registers and indexes and became a self-indexing register. It was kept in card form covering the period 1910 to 1930. It covers home and foreign trade and each card gives:

Name
Certificate number
Date of passing
Date and place of birth
Rating
Port of examination
The cards are of different colours depending on the type of qualification; white cards are for masters and mates, pink cards are for Engineers and green for Skippers and Mates of fishing boats. The index is available, on microfiche, as Index to Certificates of Competency, Masters, Mates, Engineers and Fishing Officers, Home and Foreign Trade, 1910-1930 (BT 352 ). Information found in this class often falls outside the nominal dates indicated.

Chronological registers of the issue, or reissue of certificates are to be found in:

BT 317 Registers of Masters and Mates Certificates Passings and Renewal (1917-1977)
BT 318 Registers of Examinations for Certificates of Masters, Mates and Engineers, Returns of Passings and Failures (1928-1981)
BT 320 Register of Engineers Passes and Renewals (1913-1935) [in process of transfer], these records are to be found at the National Maritime Museum under references RSS/ENG/5-6.
BT 396 Registers of Passes and Renewals of Certificates of Competency for Fishing Officers (Skippers and 2nd hands) 1883-1959
These registers give brief details of the issue of certificates. The entries are arranged in date order and give:

Date received
Christian name
When [examined]
No
Grade
Port sent to
Surname
Port of examination
Date


Dave,
I cannot find details of the previous names you mention for SATURN O/N 138985. As fare as I know she was taken by the RN directly from the builders and kept the name SATURN throughout her life. Could you give me your source please.


Thanks and regards

Roger

Hello Roger

Many thanks for your input, I will forward it to my daughter who resides in London and can look at the records in Kew without me considering a bank loan. Initially all I had were the trawler names, these came from searching the NLEC archive, the numbers came after many hours searching on the internet, some were wrong.
I was only able to correct them when I received the crew lists which I purchased, they give the name and number so hopefully I now have them correct.
By reading many of the messages on this web site and reading "Trawlers of Humberside" I am slowly learning about the business, I knew it was hard, but, not just how hard it really was for both husband and wife, it seems as if apprentices did not have an easy life either.
The other part of the history can be seen by reading my notes to Dave, it concerns one of the daughters Christine and the Earl Essex (no ref).

Many thanks for your help.

John

johnblack5
26th May 2008, 18:38
John,
Making some guesses now:-
Was your Grandfather apprenticed as a fisherman in Grimsby?
If so, then John Wilson at the N.E.Lincs Archives will have that record I'm sure.
Many fishermen joined the RNR during the times that you give for your Grandfather's service. It is most likely that he joined also.
If that is the case, then the National Archives should have his service records. BT 377/7 is the index by name for the Trawler section.
Finally, do you have any addresses for John Smith in all of your data.
Address was sometimes written for a crewman in the ships crew list that you have quoted with the 208 prefix.
I have a 1911 local directory for Grimsby & Cleethorpes which I can look through if you have any addresses as a starting point.

Regards
Dave

Hello Dave

I have found a web site where they will search the records of Sea Fishing Apprentices, for the NLEC you have to employ a searcher which I am loth to do at this stage.
I have the following address for Skipper Smith
Address 483 Weelsby St (1911)
Address 70 Cooper Road (1913)
Address 168 Barcroft St (1916)
Address 363 Grimsby Road (1917).

Second wife’s full name was Kate Eliza Vickers from Horncastle. They gave birth to a daughter Christine on the 11th November 1917 while living at 363 Grimsby Road, Cleethorpes.

You will see from the mail that I had a reply from a friend of your, it is good to be in the hands of experts.

John

johnblack5
26th May 2008, 18:43
My father spent his working teenage years pre WW2 fishing the arctic circle on his father's trawler he has written a small journal describing his experiences - if you wish I can send extracts to you. His whole family going back many generations were fishermen from Grimsby and Hull, and he writes of 7 uncles who drowned honourably at sea. My gg Grandmother was widowed twice 1864 and 1880 by the death of her husbands at sea. But it did not stop her sons, nor her daughters becoming involved in the fishing industry. Just let me know if you are interested in seeing the extracts.

Hello
I would be very interested to read the extracts, what do you need, email address, or ?

Regards


John

davetodd
28th May 2008, 11:47
Roger,
After checking my information, here are the sources:-
Saturn GY976 WW1 Admiralty No.2971 from Dittmar & Colledge
Saturn GY976 O.N. 138985 MGFC built 1916 Goole Owner Trawlers ( White Sea & Grimsby ) Ltd Grimsby from 1934 Olsen's Fishermans Nautical Almanack.
Saturn FY823 WW2 from Lenton & Colledge
Saturn GY976 O.N.138985 MGFC built 1916Goole Owner Trawlers Grimsby Ltd.
from 1947 Olsen's Fisherman's Nautical Almanack.
Macedonian GY976 O.N.138985 MGFC built 1916 Goole Owner Lindern Fishing Co.Ltd Grimsby from 1960 Olsen's Fisherman's Nautical Almanack.
I now can see that the other names (Commander and Lindern) may be in error.
These two names appear on the excellent FLOAT website when searching for Saturn or Macedonian. I'm sure you are familiar with this website Roger.
Next week I will check Olsens entry for 1960 with Lloyds Register.
Regards
Dave

Roger

Checked the 1959 Lloyds Register and found the following:-
Macedonian O.N.138985 Owner Dominion Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
Built Goole 1916 230GT 107NT length 102.2' beam 22'
ex Commander Lindern 51
ex Saturn 47

This then shows that FLOAT website is correct.

John,
Am still loking into the addresses you posted.

Regards
Dave

Roger Griffiths
28th May 2008, 18:30
Hello Dave,
Thanks for taking the time and trouble to do the look ups. I will update my records accordingly.
Next time I am at TNA I will try and get hold of her registry to see exactly when the name changes and change of owners occured.

Regards
Roger

johnblack5
28th May 2008, 18:58
Roger

Checked the 1959 Lloyds Register and found the following:-
Macedonian O.N.138985 Owner Dominion Steam Fishing Co. Ltd.
Built Goole 1916 230GT 107NT length 102.2' beam 22'
ex Commander Lindern 51
ex Saturn 47

This then shows that FLOAT website is correct.

John,
Am still loking into the addresses you posted.

Regards
Dave

Many thanks Dave, just received a copy of "Sea Fishing Apprenticeships of Grimsby" that is this evening taken care of. From a wee look inside it is a wonder any of them completed training, the Foreign Legion seems like the Boy Scouts in comparison.

From Google it seems the streets I listed still exist, what sort of area's are they now ?

John

davetodd
28th May 2008, 23:56
John
1910-1911 Directory for Grimsby and Cleethorpes has the following:-

483 Weelsby Street Grimsby Occupant Wm.Draper Cabinet maker.
Weelsby St. was and probably still is the LONGEST street in Grimsby.
Built in the late 19th Century, the majority of these houses were terraced,two or three bedrooms,outside privvy,gas lighting,front door straight onto the street ,small backyard onto alleyway.
Residents had many and varied occupations.
Many of the original 500 or so houses are still there and occupied.

70 Cooper Road Occupant P.Graham Storeman.
This road is at the end of Weelsby St. and was built early 20th Century.
Terraced houses again, but slightly larger and better equipped than Weelsby St.
Three good sized bedrooms, four rooms downstairs outside toilet, Front garden, albeit small and a good sized back garden.
Residents tend to have trades.
My father and his parents etc. lived in the next road (Columbia Rd.) at this time (1912 onwards) Schools nearby and all the properties still occupied.

168 Barcroft Street Cleethorpes Occupant J.W.Hughes
Similar to Cooper Road but generally larger rooms.
Built around the same time as Cooper Road.
Schools on the doorstep and plenty of local shops etc.
Residents as Cooper Rd.
All properties fully occupied to date.
My Grandfather lived at 161 Barcroft St, before moving to Columbia Rd.

363 Grimsby Road Cleethorpes.Occupier Wm.Gillman Skipper.
These were and still are fine buildings in this area.

Large three or four bedrooms,bathroom,front and back gardens.
Residents are typically professional or in business.
Schools local as well as shops,churches etc.
Trams run past the front of the house.
Still command a high (local) price.
Looks like this John Smith progressed nicely up the property ladder, but having said that, most of the houses were rented in the period you are interested in.

Also bear in mind that the information for the directory may not be up to date nor is accuracy assured.

Best Regards
Dave

johnblack5
29th May 2008, 09:55
John
1910-1911 Directory for Grimsby and Cleethorpes has the following:-

483 Weelsby Street Grimsby Occupant Wm.Draper Cabinet maker.
Weelsby St. was and probably still is the LONGEST street in Grimsby.
Built in the late 19th Century, the majority of these houses were terraced,two or three bedrooms,outside privvy,gas lighting,front door straight onto the street ,small backyard onto alleyway.
Residents had many and varied occupations.
Many of the original 500 or so houses are still there and occupied.

70 Cooper Road Occupant P.Graham Storeman.
This road is at the end of Weelsby St. and was built early 20th Century.
Terraced houses again, but slightly larger and better equipped than Weelsby St.
Three good sized bedrooms, four rooms downstairs outside toilet, Front garden, albeit small and a good sized back garden.
Residents tend to have trades.
My father and his parents etc. lived in the next road (Columbia Rd.) at this time (1912 onwards) Schools nearby and all the properties still occupied.

168 Barcroft Street Cleethorpes Occupant J.W.Hughes
Similar to Cooper Road but generally larger rooms.
Built around the same time as Cooper Road.
Schools on the doorstep and plenty of local shops etc.
Residents as Cooper Rd.
All properties fully occupied to date.
My Grandfather lived at 161 Barcroft St, before moving to Columbia Rd.

363 Grimsby Road Cleethorpes.Occupier Wm.Gillman Skipper.
These were and still are fine buildings in this area.

Large three or four bedrooms,bathroom,front and back gardens.
Residents are typically professional or in business.
Schools local as well as shops,churches etc.
Trams run past the front of the house.
Still command a high (local) price.
Looks like this John Smith progressed nicely up the property ladder, but having said that, most of the houses were rented in the period you are interested in.

Also bear in mind that the information for the directory may not be up to date nor is accuracy assured.

Best Regards
Dave

Hello Dave

Many thanks for your excellent work, when I have some more detail in place I think I will have to drive to Grimsby. Maybe buy you a pint, or, two.
One of the stories I was told about my Grandfather was that when he got back from a voyage his wife complained about a new gas cooker. It appears that nobody at the Gas Board took any notice so he carried it out and put it on the tram lines, my guess is that he was then living at 363 Grimsby Road.
If, as we suspect he was a Grimsby apprentice then I can well believe it. If you could survive that you had to be really hard, my new book "Grimsby Fishing Apprentices" is mind boggling, while full of facts it is easy to read and when you think that this was only 100 years ago it is amazing.
Again, many thanks, it really is appreciated.

John

Steve Farrow
29th May 2008, 11:53
Hello John,
The book you have just aquired gives an amazing account of life on the sailing smacks that was endured by the appentices (and the other crew also).
If you can get your hands on Edward Gillett's, 'A History of Grimsby' it also gives a vivid account in a chapters called 'The arrival of the Smacks' and 'Smacks, Apprentices and Owners' It really paints an eye-opening picture of the corruption within the town amongst it's councillors and fishing vessel owners (many owners sat on the council and were magistrates and dished out sentences to their own crews).

Here is a photo of 363 Grimsby Road taken this morning....much moderised and up for sale! Quite a large house.

Regards

Steve

johnblack5
29th May 2008, 13:42
Hello John,
The book you have just aquired gives an amazing account of life on the sailing smacks that was endured by the appentices (and the other crew also).
If you can get your hands on Edward Gillett's, 'A History of Grimsby' it also gives a vivid account in a chapters called 'The arrival of the Smacks' and 'Smacks, Apprentices and Owners' It really paints an eye-opening picture of the corruption within the town amongst it's councillors and fishing vessel owners (many owners sat on the council and were magistrates and dished out sentences to their own crews).

Here is a photo of 363 Grimsby Road taken this morning....much moderised and up for sale! Quite a large house.

Regards

Steve

Hello Steve

Many thanks for your message and especially the photograph. I will have a look for the book you describe. Some of the reports in my book are really shocking, many of these lads died throught sheer negligence.. Corruption on councils seems to be continuing in 2008, at least there are now a FEW rules.
I am waiting for some birth certificates to arrive, they should show me if he moved again, possibly to Cleethorpes where his daughter Christine was married.
Photo shows my latest hobby, model engineering.
Again many thanks.

John10370

johnblack5
31st May 2008, 07:58
Hi Dave
Sally made her first visit to the National Archives in Kew, she was amazed at the size of the place, a reading room like a football field. It takes some time to find your way around and work out how to use the various machines, all very impressive.
Anyway, she found my greandfathers records under the Certificates of competency, 2nd hand in 1910 and Skipper status in 1912 which all ties in with the crew lists I have, it seems that the Gadra was his first role as Skipper. The certificates were issued in Grimsby. Next week Sally will make another visit and we should get some copies.

Best wishes


John

Steve Farrow
31st May 2008, 10:22
John,
I don't know if you have a photo of the Gadra, so I have attached one here!

Steve

johnblack5
31st May 2008, 12:14
Hello Steve
Many thanks for the photo, his first ship as Skipper, I am learing a lot about Grimsby and fishing really fast. Did you see my reply to Dave about his certificates, all received in Grimsby. Dave is also looking for a photo. I have lots of books on marine steam engines, even a full set of works drawings for a triple expansion engine. Would the Gadra have a compound engine ?

Many thanks

John

davetodd
31st May 2008, 14:03
Hello Steve
Many thanks for the photo, his first ship as Skipper, I am learing a lot about Grimsby and fishing really fast. Did you see my reply to Dave about his certificates, all received in Grimsby. Dave is also looking for a photo. I have lots of books on marine steam engines, even a full set of works drawings for a triple expansion engine. Would the Gadra have a compound engine ?

Many thanks

John
Hello John
I'm sure Steve is monitoring your replies when he can.
Regarding the engine for Gadra, I will check Lloyds Register for the engine type.
The L.R. usually give cylinder sizes (dia.) and stroke length.
Guess she was a triple.But will check.
Think I know what you're looking for since I served my apprenticeship on trawler engines in Grimsby.Steam and Diesel types.
Sailed for many years with both types in the Merchant Navy from 1958 to 1975.
You might like to look for my posts entitled "From Dad's Diary" in the Fishing vessels forum.
This is an engineers diary of two GY fishing vessels during 1953, my father was Chief Engineer on both.
Hope you gain some insight from the entries.
Regards
Dave
P.S. Fine looking workmanship on your model attached earlier.
Well done.

johnblack5
31st May 2008, 16:32
Thanks again Dave, I will have a look at the engineers diary. It seems we have a mutual friend, Jennie from the Library, she has been most helpful.
My father served his time with Yarwoods in Northwich and was a superb craftsman.

John

treeve
31st May 2008, 17:33
I am trying to identify just when Sea Lady was GY 263; others with that Port Reg are Agile, Stella Canopus and Cradock but that was all before 1954(?); Sea Lady was a Belgian built vessel, Ostende 1948, became BM 10 Sea Lady in 1972. Headed for Grimsby after that date. Later history is (BA263) (PZ 582 ) (OB167) (PL 20), but I have as yet found no record of her under the reported subsequent name of Marlene Ellen. Any advice please, I have searched Penzance Registers 1970-1990 and Defra/Maaf lists 1996-2006. Best Wishes, Raymond

billblow
31st May 2008, 18:22
Raymond
Sea Lady GY 263 ON 359890 in my 1978 Olsen's at Grimsby. Owner John Nicklin and Others Cleethorpes. Sorry don't know when she came or when she went.
Bill

treeve
31st May 2008, 19:53
Thank you Bill, that ON is vital to be able to check, as I will have to go through the shipping Registers again, she may not have had the name reported. Now I can make my start date no earlier than 1978. Best Wishes, Raymond

johnblack5
31st May 2008, 20:33
Your Dad's diaries are really interesting, it must be the most unusual shopping trip ever, beats Sainsbury's. Your diaries must be equally interesting, I have read of some amazing repairs to triple expansion engines.

John

johnblack5
31st May 2008, 23:48
Hi Hilary
I found a copy on Abebooks.com so I will be able to learn more on the lives of Trawlermen. Many thanks for your help.

John

Hello Hilary
I really found this book rewarding, especially after reading "Sea fishing Appretices of Grimsby". Alfs book showed very clearly how the dangers inherent in sea fishing together with unemployment affected Grimsby family life. It showed how people overcame these terrible hardships by helping one another and how this really was a situation which only existed in sea fishing commuities working in dangerous waters. The book left me feeling great admiration for the people of Grimsby who lived through such times. I know that my Grandfather must have suffered many of those hardships.

Best wishes


John

sallyann-1958
1st June 2008, 08:10
Has anyone any Images of the Drangey?

johnblack5
1st June 2008, 10:10
Hi Dave
Just where among all the Lloys gen is the register you use.

John

davetodd
1st June 2008, 14:46
Hello John,
My local Reference Library in Grimsby has a good range of Maritime publications including many years publication of Lloyds Registers.
If you are considering carrying out your own research the following may be of help.
If your local library in the UK do not have copies of these registers I'm sure they will be able to tell you where to find them.
These are large, heavy volumes, (usually more than one volume per year)
The outer cover of each indicates where they originally came from e.g. Port of Spain Trinidad Pilot. Grimsby Lloyds Surveyor Office etc.
They are arranged in vessel name alphabetical order and contain a vast amount of information.
Consequently, if a search is started for a particular vessel it is essential that one has the following:-
Name of vessel. (Watch out for names which are initials only)
Which year the vessel had that name. (Name change is not uncommon)
Country of registration in that year.
Additionally, the type of vessel may be relevant, since it is common for more than one vessel to have the same name in the same year and registered in the same country. (If the tonnage is known this may help discriminate between two or more vessels of the same name in the same year of the same type registered in the same country)
The more information the better.
I have spent some time going through selected years to identify some vessels, photographs of which are held in the Grimsby Library.
I do not always have success.
Hope this answers your query.
Best Regards
Dave

davetodd
1st June 2008, 15:10
Hello Sallyann-1958.
If you can get to the Grimsby Library, Reference section, they can let you look at three photo's of the Drangey GY126 ON162893 built 1934 at Selby.
One of the photographs shows her as owned by Rinovia S.F.Co.Ltd of Grimsby and two as the WW2 requisitioned Anti-Submarine Trawler Pennant No. FY195.
Best Regards
Dave

Steve Farrow
1st June 2008, 15:47
hi Sallyanne,

Here two photo's of the Drangey as a thumnails

Regards

Steve

billblow
1st June 2008, 16:05
Hello Sallyann-1958
Both photo's Steve's sent you are pre-war with that Grimsby port registry number of GY 126. The funnel is grey with black cap and the flag is the Icelandic national flag, this was the funnel livery of the Rinovia Steam Fishing Co Ltd of Grimsby.
After war service she returned to Grimsby with the port registry number GY 280 and was sold to H Croft Baker and Sons who renamed her Mildenhall, sadly the Mildenhall was lost 1/11/1948 on the Murmansk Coast.
Bill

johnblack5
1st June 2008, 16:12
Many thanks Steve, I will check with Taunton Library. I thought you might have found some way og getting into Lloyds direct.
Time to relax now after a morning on the lathe.

John

treeve
1st June 2008, 20:46
I have searched again, through the FV Registers, and found (it was entered in another Register than the one expected).
Ex BA 272 MARLENE ELLEN PZ 582
Built 1948 Ostend Belgium
Motor Trawler
Overall Length of Hull 57.7 feet
Length 51.3 feet
Breadth 16.7 feet
Depth 6.3 feet
Tonnage Gross 24.29; Net 24.29
Crew 4
Registered 18th April 1978
Skipper J O'Connor
Owner E L Fisheries Ltd, 17 Market Place, Penzance
3rd December 1982 Registry Cancelled, Vessel transferred to Isle of Man.

In 1978 then she was registered Penzance, until 1982 when she became IOM.

johnblack5
2nd June 2008, 13:48
Hello Dave

I have found a web site where they will search the records of Sea Fishing Apprentices, for the NLEC you have to employ a searcher which I am loth to do at this stage.
I have the following address for Skipper Smith
Address 483 Weelsby St (1911)
Address 70 Cooper Road (1913)
Address 168 Barcroft St (1916)
Address 363 Grimsby Road (1917).

Second wife’s full name was Kate Eliza Vickers from Horncastle. They gave birth to a daughter Christine on the 11th November 1917 while living at 363 Grimsby Road, Cleethorpes.

You will see from the mail that I had a reply from a friend of your, it is good to be in the hands of experts.

John


Dave

I have some additions to this information:

On the 31st Mar 1924 Shipper Smith and his wife Kate Eliza, formerly Vickers had a son named Ernest Smith, his address is given as being
362 Cleethorpes Road, Grimsby. Sadly the marriage only lasted until the end of the war when his trawler his a mine.

In addition I now have the marriage certificate for his daughter Christine. She married Benjamin Thompson Nicholson Reynolds on the 26 Dec 1938, Benjamin was a Skipper as was his father John Francis Reynolds, their address is given as being 90 Grimsby Road.

It seems that a large part of my family were dedicated to the sea. Maybe someone reading this may recognise something leading to more detailed information.


Regards



John

mattarosa
3rd June 2008, 13:51
Hello Hilary
I really found this book rewarding, especially after reading "Sea fishing Appretices of Grimsby". Alfs book showed very clearly how the dangers inherent in sea fishing together with unemployment affected Grimsby family life. It showed how people overcame these terrible hardships by helping one another and how this really was a situation which only existed in sea fishing commuities working in dangerous waters. The book left me feeling great admiration for the people of Grimsby who lived through such times. I know that my Grandfather must have suffered many of those hardships.

Best wishes


John

Hi John
I am glad you found it helpful.
Kind regards
Hilary

johnblack5
7th June 2008, 09:56
Hello John
Russell Steam trawler O.N.123585 built 1906 at Beverley 248 gross tons for A.Grant GY192 Served as minesweeper from 1915 for R.N. as Russell II
Then with H.L.Taylor Owner. Broken up in 1957.

Anson Steam trawler O.N. 118943 built 1905 at Beverley 83 net tons
In 1934 the owner was Chas.Dobson port no.GY47. Nothing further known.

Godra?
Could this be ?
GADRA Steam trawler O.N. 127847 built 1909 at Beverley 219 gross tons 106 net tons. Owner Howe S.F.Co. GY485. ( One photograph at Grimsby Library )
Mined 1941.

Hope this is of some help.

Best Regards
Dave
Hi Dave
Did you manage to find the photo of the Gadra in the Library ?. It was a delight for me to find on the Marriage Certificate for my grandfathers daughter Christine that there were 3 people, all Skippers, John Francis Reynolds, Benjamin Thompson Nicholson Reynolds, and John Smith.

Have a nice weekend

John

davetodd
8th June 2008, 14:04
Hi Dave
Did you manage to find the photo of the Gadra in the Library ?. It was a delight for me to find on the Marriage Certificate for my grandfathers daughter Christine that there were 3 people, all Skippers, John Francis Reynolds, Benjamin Thompson Nicholson Reynolds, and John Smith.

Have a nice weekend

John
Hello John
The library have one photograph of GADRA.
Not very clear and is taken of her on the slipway at Grimsby Fish Dock probably 1920's.
There is obvious damage to the bow on the port side and much chalked words eg.OFF.
That is all I have found so far.

More info. from Lloyds Register for 1921-1922.

Russel ON 123585 Captain F.W.Lane
GT246 NT100 built 1906 Cook,Welton&Gemmell Beverley
Owner W.Grant L.125 B.22 D.11.8Triple expansion Steam Engine by C.D.Holmes of Hull HP12.5" MP22" LP35" Stroke 24" 70RHP Boiler Press.180

Gadra ON 127847 Captain J.G.Larne
GT219 NT106 built 1909 Cook,Welton&Gemmell Beverley
Owner Grant&Baker S.F.Co.Ltd. L.117 B.21.6 D.11.5 T3exp by Great Central Eng.Co.Ltd HP12" MP21.5" LP34" Stroke24" 69RHP Boiler Press 180

Saturn ON 138985 Captain S.Wood
GT230 NT107 built1916 Goole Ship Buil'g Co.Ltd.
Owner Grimsby&NorthSea Steam Trawling Co. J.R.Mackrill mgr.
L.120.2 B.22.0 D.12.1 T3exp by C.D.Holmes of Hull HP12.5"MP21.5" LP35" Stroke 24" 76RHP Boiler Press 180

By the way, can you be more precise regarding when John Smith died in 1934?
There may be an entry in the local paper archives.

Best Regards
Dave

johnblack5
8th June 2008, 15:03
Hello Dave
Many thanks for the information. The year 1934 was the year he attended my fathers wedding, we do not know at this stage just when he died. Sally is mailing me a copy of his skippers certificate.
I checked with Taunton Library but drew a blank, they are going to determine just what they could get hold off.
We found a later address for 1924 362 Cleethorpes Road , Cleethorpes , is this another step up the ladder ?.

I hope you are enjoying the same sunshine as we are in Taunton.

Best wishes


John

Gordon Stewart
8th June 2008, 15:05
Hi everyone, here is a list of vessels I'm currently researching. So if anyone reading this has any information of any kind relating to these vessels (including pics), please let me know by posting here or by PM.

Regards

Clem

GY6 Ross Kelly
GY19 Stockham
GY22 Northern Eagle
GY65 Lancer
GY68 Tagalie
GY110 Northern Princess
GY121 Northern Prince
GY142 Northern Sea
GY148 Spurs
GY190 Northern Spray
GY204 Northern Gem
GY245 Euryalus
GY249 British
GY263 Cradock
GY280 Mildenhall
GY289 Northern Dawn
GY333 Boston Valetta
GY354 Peken
GY389 Taipo
GY395 Lifeguard
GY427 Northern Sky
GY440 Northern Sun
GY453 Kyoto
GY457 Clixby
GY467 Digby
GY484 Port Vale
GY507 Recordo
GY511 Varanis
GY596 Boston Coronet
GY600 Osako
GY625 Recono
GY661 Tokio
GY664 Lemberg
GY679 Garola
GY689 Okino
GY810 Strephon
GY1037 War Duke
GY1306 Xylopia
GY1367 Kirmington
GY Katie Louise
GY Efficient

Hi Clem,
I'm new to this forum but have come across this message from you regarding the Grimsby trawlers. My father served in HMT Strephon during the second world war and was based out of Aberdeen. My father passed away several years ago and I can't be certain that this is the same Strephon you are looking for information on.
I have scanned his wartime photo album which has quite a few of the wartime trawlers including Strephon. They are posted here- http://picasaweb.google.com.au/gstewart49/JimmyStewart02
If you wanted better scans of particular pictures please let me know and I will see what I can do. When I was young my father was a keen model maker and made a very nice model of the Strephon which I now own.

Regards

Gordon Stewart

mattarosa
8th June 2008, 19:03
I haven't contributed very much lately as I have been very busy at work.

Here are a few stray refs to the Strephon from the Times.

The Times, Friday, Nov 17, 1933
CASUALTY REPORTS (from Lloyds)
JOSEPH BURGIN – Grimsby, Nov 16 – Steam trawler Joseph Burgin, of Grimsby, reported sunk at sea. Master and crew of nine hands all told were landed at Grimsby this afternoon by Grimsby trawler Strephon.

The Times, Monday, Sep 04, 1939
TRAWLER CREW RESCUED
Early yesterday morning the Wick lifeboat City of Edinburgh rescued 13 members of the crew of the Grimsby trawler Navarre, which went ashore in dense fog with high seas running at Skirsa Head, Caithness. Because of the rocks the lifeboat could not reach the trawler, and two members of the crew were rescued by breeches buoy. The Grimsby trawler Strephon then arrived, but attempts to tow the Navarre off by the Strephon and the lifeboat failed. Finally, after great difficulty, the lifeboat manoeuvred its way as near the Navarre as possible, and the remaining 11 members of the crew jumped on to the lifeboat.

The Times, Wednesday, Jan 19, 1955
LIFEBOAT FROM MISSING TRAWLER SEEN
The owners of the missing trawler Gipsy Queen (114 tons), last heard of a week ago when fishing off the Danish coast, received a report that a ship’s lifeboat with markings LT.166 had been seen last Thursday. The report originated from the Grimsby trawler Strephon. The Gipsy Queen left Lowestoft on January 9 on a fishing trip. She is owned by the West Hartlepool Steam Navigation Co Ltd.

Hilary

mattarosa
8th June 2008, 19:08
And a very brief ref to the GADRA.

The Times, Thursday, Feb 17, 1921
The Grimsby trawler Gadra was sunk in the Humber on Tuesday night after collision with another trawler, but no lives were lost.

Hilary

Steve Farrow
9th June 2008, 12:18
Hi Gordon,
Here are a couple of thumbnails of the STREPHON

regards

Steve

Gordon Stewart
9th June 2008, 13:57
Thanks Steve. For a while there I thought your ship and the one from my fathers album must have been different ships but when I looked closely I could pick up some unmistakable details like the wheelhouse windows. I'm guessing your photos are pre-war (?) and that the flybridge on top of the house in my fathers photos were added by the RN.

Steve Farrow
9th June 2008, 14:51
Hi Gordon,
I would say that both of the photo's were taken in the 1950's (Morris Minor in the background). The one of her alongside the coal-hoists shows no radar scanner, so I would assume mid 50's. The fly bridge was definately added when she was converted into a mine-sweeper in 1940.
I have just posted a painting of mine in the Gallery.

Regards

Steve

davetodd
9th June 2008, 15:34
Hi Gordon,
I would say that both of the photo's were taken in the 1950's (Morris Minor in the background). The one of her alongside the coal-hoists shows no radar scanner, so I would assume mid 50's. The fly bridge was definately added when she was converted into a mine-sweeper in 1940.
I have just posted a painting of mine in the Gallery.

Regards

Steve
Steve is right, I would add that it is the early to mid fifties.
Steve's first thumbnail shows at left a steam trawler alongside on the North Wall.
Usually trawlers woud lie here to receive fuel oil from barges.
Also can be seen further to the right, a vessel stem on to the North Wall
which looks like a Lancer/Bombadier type of oil burning steam trawler.
This type were built 1949 onwards.
Regards
Dave

johnblack5
10th June 2008, 08:14
Hello John
The library have one photograph of GADRA.
Not very clear and is taken of her on the slipway at Grimsby Fish Dock probably 1920's.
There is obvious damage to the bow on the port side and much chalked words eg.OFF.
That is all I have found so far.

More info. from Lloyds Register for 1921-1922.

Russel ON 123585 Captain F.W.Lane
GT246 NT100 built 1906 Cook,Welton&Gemmell Beverley
Owner W.Grant L.125 B.22 D.11.8Triple expansion Steam Engine by C.D.Holmes of Hull HP12.5" MP22" LP35" Stroke 24" 70RHP Boiler Press.180

Gadra ON 127847 Captain J.G.Larne
GT219 NT106 built 1909 Cook,Welton&Gemmell Beverley
Owner Grant&Baker S.F.Co.Ltd. L.117 B.21.6 D.11.5 T3exp by Great Central Eng.Co.Ltd HP12" MP21.5" LP34" Stroke24" 69RHP Boiler Press 180

Saturn ON 138985 Captain S.Wood
GT230 NT107 built1916 Goole Ship Buil'g Co.Ltd.
Owner Grimsby&NorthSea Steam Trawling Co. J.R.Mackrill mgr.
L.120.2 B.22.0 D.12.1 T3exp by C.D.Holmes of Hull HP12.5"MP21.5" LP35" Stroke 24" 76RHP Boiler Press 180

By the way, can you be more precise regarding when John Smith died in 1934?
There may be an entry in the local paper archives.

Best Regards
Dave
Hello Dave
There are many references to C D Holmes of Hull on the web, it seems they built both the complete thing, engine and all.
I am not getting any further with my search for Captain Smith career after 1913. A gentleman, Terry found this reference in the list of apprentices:

Apprentice..............Date indentured..............Ref. no/ Reg. / Page
SMITH John.......... 30 Nov 1904...................... 208 / 1 / 12 / 6

But, since providing this data has not been in contact. Even the Vicar at the church where Tina was married, St Aidans has left for a new job and phones go unanswered. I thought that with his latest move to Cleethorpes Road he may be buried there. Still, nothing like a challenge is there.
I thought my book list may be of interest to you:
The Marine Steam Engine by Sennet and Oram
Marine Engineering Practice by Drover
Verbal Notes and Sketches by Sothern, 2 vols
The Marine Power Plant by Chapman
Board of Trade Orals. Marine Engineering Knowledge
Modern Steam Practice and Engineering by John G Winton massive 1117 pages
A Manual of Marine Engineering by Seaton.

You probably used some of these books yourself. Now all very difficult to find.

Many thanks for all your help


John

johnblack5
10th June 2008, 15:03
Hi Dave
I now have a copy of my Grandfathers certificate, not a lot of information on it but here goes.
John Smith dob 1884 Northwich Cheshire
Certificate 10474 2nd hand 04-10-1910
Certificate " Skipper 30-03-1912

Port of examination Grimsby.

At least I now have a document.

Regards


John

davetodd
10th June 2008, 16:34
Hello Dave
Many thanks for the information. The year 1934 was the year he attended my fathers wedding, we do not know at this stage just when he died. Sally is mailing me a copy of his skippers certificate.
I checked with Taunton Library but drew a blank, they are going to determine just what they could get hold off.
We found a later address for 1924 362 Cleethorpes Road , Cleethorpes , is this another step up the ladder ?.

I hope you are enjoying the same sunshine as we are in Taunton.

Best wishes


John
Hello John
Getting a bit confused with the addresses you have submitted:-
1917:- 363 Grimsby Road (Grimsby Road is in Cleethorpes)
1924:- 362 Cleethorpe Road Cleethorpes (Cleethorpe Road is in Grimsby)
Can you verify house numbers and street/road,town and dates?
If they came from a BMD cert. then they are probably correct.
Dave.

johnblack5
10th June 2008, 18:07
Hi Dave

The addresses came from certificates:

362 Grimsby Road coming from Ernest certificate in 1924
363 Grimsby Road coming from Christines certificate in 1917

I thought the same thing when I saw the numbers but assumed that they were different roads.

I have today received the following from Taunton.

John

Attached is a link that may help.

National Maritime Museum http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.588
This page gives research advice and has contact details for National Archive, Southampton City Archive http://www.southampton.gov.uk/leisure/localhistoryandheritage/archives/services/enquiry.asp and the Registry of Shipping and Seamen. Unfortunately most archives and museums etc. will charge a fee for research (unlike libraries, who tend to do all research free of charge).

Regards
Jeremy Speck
Information Librarian

I will see if there is anything I can use and let you know.


John

c/o george clifford
10th June 2008, 19:15
Hi everyone, I've started this thread to discuss Grimsby fishing vessels. I'm in the process of compiling a database of the above and, would welcome any contributions on this theme. ie. photo's, stories of life on board, histories of the vessels etc.

Hopefully as this thread develops, it can become a reference point for people with similar interests.

Regards

Clem

I'm interested in vessels around 1880/1890's, especially Sando, steam codman, that steamed out of Grimsby 13th Nov 1889. It was shipwrecked off Iceland . I have family connections to this vessel.
In April 1939 an article was written by one of the surviving sailors, 50 years after the event. (See Grimsby Telegraph, and reprinted Nov13th 2000.

mattarosa
10th June 2008, 23:12
I'm interested in vessels around 1880/1890's, especially Sando, steam codman, that steamed out of Grimsby 13th Nov 1889. It was shipwrecked off Iceland . I have family connections to this vessel.
In April 1939 an article was written by one of the surviving sailors, 50 years after the event. (See Grimsby Telegraph, and reprinted Nov13th 2000.


I have posted some references to a trawler called Sando under your other thread (Sando shipwreck). If this was the same trawler, it was not shipwrecked in 1889/90 but went missing for 5 months icebound.

There are also some other stories as Sando seemed to be a trawler in the news quite often.

Hope something there is of help.

Hilary

johnblack5
12th June 2008, 08:09
Hello Dave
Exciting news, My Grandfather John Smith was a fishing apprentice, A gentleman named Terry has sent me a copy of his page in the records.
His address in Northwich fits so I am 100% sure it his him.
It states that the port and registry of ship is Nero, any info on that name ?
It shows his Saving Bank details but not very clearly, Terry is going to send me enlargements. My book "Sea fishing apprentices of Grimsby" now really means something.

John

johnblack5
12th June 2008, 09:45
More info Dave, I managed to zoom in on the page.
Name of master was: Orient S J & Co Ltd
Bound for 4 years 7/12/1887-30/11/1904
Lived at 40 Grafton Street, Grimsby
Previos job, working in a leather factory.
All his reports were excellent. Good lad.

John

billblow
12th June 2008, 09:47
johnblack5
Trawler Nero GY 718
Built 1898 by Mackie and Thomson at Govan
Gross tonnage 150
Owned by the Orient Steam Fishing Co Ltd Grimsby
Sold to Norway 03/1904
Funnel livery for the Orient Steam Fishing Co attached
Bill

davetodd
12th June 2008, 12:02
Hello John
Getting a bit confused with the addresses you have submitted:-
1917:- 363 Grimsby Road (Grimsby Road is in Cleethorpes)
1924:- 362 Cleethorpe Road Cleethorpes (Cleethorpe Road is in Grimsby)
Can you verify house numbers and street/road,town and dates?
If they came from a BMD cert. then they are probably correct.
Dave.

John
Some anomolies seem to be creeping in regarding John Smith.

In one of your postings you give his dob as 1884 Northwich, yet his apprenticeship you give as 7/12/87 to 30/11/04.

Perhaps the start date is really 7/12/1897?

Further to the addresses you gave.
A look through the electoral rolls at Grimsby library shows that
1918, 363 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes have John Smith and Kate Eliza Smith
listed as registered voters.

These names do not appear at this address after 1918. I looked up to 1932.

362 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes did not exist in 1924 (the address from the birth cert. for Christine)

In fact, the houses on the opposite side to 363 were not built until after
1930.

Time for a recap I would suggest and make sure that with a name like John Smith you have not switched tracks along the way.

Dave

johnblack5
12th June 2008, 14:31
Lord Jellicoe built 1962 had a fishing reg as H228.
Transferred to Grimsby in 1963 and had fishing reg as GY 709.
Transferred to Colne Shipping of Lowestoft in 1981, presumably kept GY709 until then.
As far as I can see Ross Revenge had GY718 from1969 to 1979.

But of course I could be wrong.

Best of luck
Dave

Hi Dave

On John Smith appreticeship papers it lists under name and port register NERO. When I searched under Heart of Oak it gives me the following:

Nero, Starbank, Lord Rothchild and finally Ross Revenge with the number GY718, would this be the trawler on which he was trained.

John

billblow
12th June 2008, 17:26
johnblack5
Starbank GY 718 came to Grimsby from Aberdeen in 1915 and immediatly changed her name to Lord Rothschild Gy 718. Ross Revenge GY 718 not until 07/1964
Billblow

johnblack5
12th June 2008, 18:44
John
Some anomolies seem to be creeping in regarding John Smith.

In one of your postings you give his dob as 1884 Northwich, yet his apprenticeship you give as 7/12/87 to 30/11/04.

Perhaps the start date is really 7/12/1897?

Further to the addresses you gave.
A look through the electoral rolls at Grimsby library shows that
1918, 363 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes have John Smith and Kate Eliza Smith
listed as registered voters.

These names do not appear at this address after 1918. I looked up to 1932.

362 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes did not exist in 1924 (the address from the birth cert. for Christine)

In fact, the houses on the opposite side to 363 were not built until after
1930.

Time for a recap I would suggest and make sure that with a name like John Smith you have not switched tracks along the way.

Dave

Dave, first the recap then the apologies;

1.0 DOB is correct 7/12/1884.
2.0 Date of indenture-30-11-04 which I think is 30-11-1904 20 yrs of age
3.0 Date of registry 17-12-04
4.0 Date of confirming indenture 30-1-05 which I think is 30-01-1905
5.0 Term served 14-12-08 which I think is 30-1-1908 age 24

I have a birth certificate for Ernest Smith, DOB 31 st Mar 1924, parents Kate Eliza Smith formerly Vickers and John Smith, skipper, where born is 362 Cleethorpes Road Grimsby.

I have a birth certificate for Christine Smith DOB 11 Nov 1917, parents as above with the address of 363 Grimsby Road Cleethorpes.

From the crew list for the Gadra I have his address as being 70 Cooper Road, Grimsby the date being Jan 1913.

From the birth certificate of my father in 1911 I have the address of 483 Weelsby St Grimsby when he was married to his first wife Catherine Alexander Smith, formerly Hallifax, spelling correct two l's.

168 Barcroft Street is where they were living when Catherine died.

It looks as if I cocked up the apprentice dates but everything else I have check with the certificates.

I will attempt to attach a copy of the apprentice file for you.


John

johnblack5
12th June 2008, 18:56
Hi Dave

On John Smith appreticeship papers it lists under name and port register NERO. When I searched under Heart of Oak it gives me the following:

Nero, Starbank, Lord Rothchild and finally Ross Revenge with the number GY718, would this be the trawler on which he was trained.

John

Hello John
Getting a bit confused with the addresses you have submitted:-
1917:- 363 Grimsby Road (Grimsby Road is in Cleethorpes)
1924:- 362 Cleethorpe Road Cleethorpes (Cleethorpe Road is in Grimsby)
Can you verify house numbers and street/road,town and dates?
If they came from a BMD cert. then they are probably correct.
Dave.

Dave

I have tried to send you a copy of the apprentice log but it fails to load, too large I guess, I will try again.

John

johnblack5
12th June 2008, 19:20
Dave

I have tried to send you a copy of the apprentice log but it fails to load, too large I guess, I will try again.

John

File too big, any ideas ?.

John

johnblack5
12th June 2008, 19:28
johnblack5
Trawler Nero GY 718
Built 1898 by Mackie and Thomson at Govan
Gross tonnage 150
Owned by the Orient Steam Fishing Co Ltd Grimsby
Sold to Norway 03/1904
Funnel livery for the Orient Steam Fishing Co attached
Bill

Hello Bill

Many thanks for the picture. It seems that she ended her days with Radio Caroline, they have a super site showing lots of pictures.
http://www.rossrevenge.co.uk/history.htm, It looks a very modern ship.
Would this be the one my grandfather would have served on as an apprentice ?.

Regards



John

davetodd
12th June 2008, 21:44
SLOW DOWN johnblack.
Hearts of Oak site shows some of the different vessels that carried that
GY 718 number.
Bill told you that Ross revenge didn't get GY 718 until July 1964.
Regarding the image size:-
If you have "Paint" as an option, scan your image to "Paint" then choose the "Skew" option from the edit file.
Reduce to a 200 or 300kb size.
Try again.
Best of luck
Dave

johnblack5
12th June 2008, 23:04
SLOW DOWN johnblack.
Hearts of Oak site shows some of the different vessels that carried that
GY 718 number.
Bill told you that Ross revenge didn't get GY 718 until July 1964.
Regarding the image size:-
If you have "Paint" as an option, scan your image to "Paint" then choose the "Skew" option from the edit file.
Reduce to a 200 or 300kb size.
Try again.
Best of luck
Dave


Sorry Dave, I thought that once you were given a GY number then that was it, it seems it is a number that can be moved to another boat.

I have skewed at 50 % so will give it a try.

I think that the 362/363 business is simply an error made at the time the certificates were written, not the first mistake I have come across.


John

johnblack5
12th June 2008, 23:05
I had to go down to 25% for it to work.

John

johnblack5
15th June 2008, 10:14
Hi Steve
The local library obtained the book by Gillet, very interesting times, from pirates to fishermen. It must have been like the wild west on a saturday night.

Regards


John

johnblack5
15th June 2008, 10:29
Hi Dave
I will ask for a copy of Bessie Smiths birth certificate, she was born in 1921. My reason for getting Ernests bith certificate was to find his last address but as 362 Cleethorpe road does not exist I am left with a problem.
I assume your records show another name occuppying 363 Grimsby Road after 1918. Ernests bith certificate gives Kate Eliza formerly Vickers as his mother and John Smith Skipper as his father. I will also ask the NELC registration people to double check the address.

Regards


John

Steve Farrow
15th June 2008, 11:04
Hi John,
The book is rather heavy going but a great insight into the development of Grimsby............and yes a bit like the wild west I suppose with the meteoric rise of the fishing industry, all helped by the new railway infrastructure. Alas, all but disappeared now! It went as fast as it came but the trawler owners had a good hundred years.
Regards
Steve

davetodd
15th June 2008, 14:28
Hi Dave
I will ask for a copy of Bessie Smiths birth certificate, she was born in 1921. My reason for getting Ernests bith certificate was to find his last address but as 362 Cleethorpe road does not exist I am left with a problem.
I assume your records show another name occuppying 363 Grimsby Road after 1918. Ernests bith certificate gives Kate Eliza formerly Vickers as his mother and John Smith Skipper as his father. I will also ask the NELC registration people to double check the address.

Regards


John
John
Confusion still reigns.
On June 10 2008 you posted 362 & 363 Grimsby Rd as the birth place from certificates.
Grimsby Road is in Cleethorpes.
On June 12 2008 I posted to let you know that 362 GRIMSBY ROAD CLEETHORPES did not exist in that time frame.
362 CLEETHORPE ROAD did exist and in 1910/11 the occupant of that house was given as Mrs.James Alward.
Time for another recap perhaps.
Best Regards
Dave

johnblack5
15th June 2008, 15:43
John
Confusion still reigns.
On June 10 2008 you posted 362 & 363 Grimsby Rd as the birth place from certificates.
Grimsby Road is in Cleethorpes.
On June 12 2008 I posted to let you know that 362 GRIMSBY ROAD CLEETHORPES did not exist in that time frame.
362 CLEETHORPE ROAD did exist and in 1910/11 the occupant of that house was given as Mrs.James Alward.
Time for another recap perhaps.
Best Regards
Dave
Hi Dave
If we take the electorial roll for 1918 then we have Kate and John living at 363 Grimsby Rd, Cleethorpes.
We have Christines bith certificate dated 11 Nov 1917 also giving 363 Grimsby Rd, Cleethorpes, as the address.
That all seems to be OK
Then we have Ernest birth certificate 31st Mar 1924 address 362 Cleethorpes Road, Grimsby.
So I assume the family in 1924 were living in 362 Cleethorpes Road, Grimsby

Is this now correct.


John

johnblack5
15th June 2008, 23:31
Hi Steve
How did the apprentices learn navigation, did they use sextants and tables + some maths, learn at sea, or, at school. No Decca, no GPS, one huge sea to cover and not all of it was good fishing. Any ideas.

John

Steve Farrow
16th June 2008, 10:37
Hi John,
They were taught by the skippers and crews of the smacks that they worked on. Generally it was magnetic compass, and a hand lead line which gave the depth of water and the nature of the sea bed by placing tallow in the base of the lead. This picked up any sand, shingle or other material that could roughly indicate their whereabouts.........to a very experienced skipper! They carried their own charts and guarded them closely as good fishing grounds would be marked on them. In later years, pressure was put upon the owners to give the lads some shore based education and this in Grimsby was the Fisher lads Institute in Orwell Street. When certificates for skippers and mates were introduced, they were in fact insurance tickets handed out by Insurance companies owned by the trawler owners!
Attached is a thumb nail of George Butler's certificate. He was washed overboard from the smack ALPHA on 7/11/1893 aged 34.
Hope this helps,
Steve

johnblack5
16th June 2008, 14:25
Hi John,
They were taught by the skippers and crews of the smacks that they worked on. Generally it was magnetic compass, and a hand lead line which gave the depth of water and the nature of the sea bed by placing tallow in the base of the lead. This picked up any sand, shingle or other material that could roughly indicate their whereabouts.........to a very experienced skipper! They carried their own charts and guarded them closely as good fishing grounds would be marked on them. In later years, pressure was put upon the owners to give the lads some shore based education and this in Grimsby was the Fisher lads Institute in Orwell Street. When certificates for skippers and mates were introduced, they were in fact insurance tickets handed out by Insurance companies owned by the trawler owners!
Attached is a thumb nail of George Butler's certificate. He was washed overboard from the smack ALPHA on 7/11/1893 aged 34.
Hope this helps,
Steve


Many thanks Steve, Were records kept of who attended the Fisher Lads Institute ?, I now have the information which reveals that my Grandfather, John Smith was an apprentice in Grimsby completing his 4 year term in 1908.
I suppose that once on the fishing grounds the skipper kept a record of all movements in order to be able to plot a course for home after some weeks at sea then plotting for an offset from Grimsby such that when he saw land he knew which side of Grimsby he was. No doubt the smart skippers would also plot a course allowing for the effect of the currents, not so easy, many must have got lost and had a long journey home.
Thanks again for taking the trouble to let me know.

John

Steve Farrow
16th June 2008, 20:21
John,
If any records exist of those who attended the Institute I would think they would be kept in the archives by N E Lincs Coucil, at the Town Hall. The man to contact is John Wilson. Unfortunatly I don't have a contact number.

Grimsby Library published a booklet in 1966 called "The Fishing Log of Edwin Green Smith, 1884-1888" It is the day to day account of wind direction fishing grounds and catches.

Steve

billblow
16th June 2008, 21:53
North East Lincolnshire Archives Tel 01472 323585 John Wilson Archivist
www.nelincs.gov.uk/leisure/archives Email archives@nelincs.gov.uk

johnblack5
16th June 2008, 23:31
Thanks Steve, I will try to obtain a copy and contact John Wilson re the lists of students.

Regards


John

johnblack5
18th June 2008, 09:46
Dave
362 Cleethorpes Rd has quite a story attached to it which is being unravelled

1918 Goldstone family living there
1919 John and Kate Smith
1921 " "
1922 " "
1923 " " John has a J next to his name which apparently means he was a Juror
1924 John and Kate Smith as before
1925 Isaac Goldstone and his family - Israel, Percy and Rachael. No sign of the Smiths
1926 John and Kate are listed again at this address
1927 the Goldstones again and no Smiths
1929 Goldstone
1930 Goldstone

I will let you know when I have more details.


John

mkeeble
20th June 2008, 07:52
Can any of you guys help me. I am trying to trace Peter Crane Skipper of the Ross Revenge, Ross Valiant etc in the late 1960's

davetodd
20th June 2008, 19:15
Dave
362 Cleethorpes Rd has quite a story attached to it which is being unravelled

1918 Goldstone family living there
1919 John and Kate Smith
1921 " "
1922 " "
1923 " " John has a J next to his name which apparently means he was a Juror
1924 John and Kate Smith as before
1925 Isaac Goldstone and his family - Israel, Percy and Rachael. No sign of the Smiths
1926 John and Kate are listed again at this address
1927 the Goldstones again and no Smiths
1929 Goldstone
1930 Goldstone

I will let you know when I have more details.


John
John
That seems to be correct.
Starting a little earlier and refering to the indenture for John Smith, the address looks like 114 Grafton St. to me.
The 1904 Elct.Roll for 114 has no electors registered
40 has no electors registered.
The 1905 Elct.Roll for 114 has George Owen Williams as a registered elector.
40 has no electors registered.
Obviously this may have no relevance to your search, but you never know.
The 1911 Elct.Roll for 483 Weelsby St. has Jihn Smith as a registered elector.
Owner of this property seems to be Charles Jame Emptage
who also owns 28 Harold St. Grimsby. This would imply to me that John Smith is the tenant.
1913 and 1914 Elct .Roll has no registered electors at 70 Cooper Rd.
1918 Elct.Roll for 362 Cleethorpe Rd. Grimsby has Israel Goldstone as a registered elector.
1919 Elct Roll for 362 Cleethorpe Rd. has John and Kate Smith as registered electors.
This continues until 1924 but in 1925 the registered electors are Isaac Goldstone (Juror) Israel Goldstone + Percy and Rachael.
Once again it appears to me that John Smith is a tenant here.
So this agrees with what you have said.
If a later address is found then further info. can be gained from Electoral rolls
to fill in the missing years.
The 1935 Electoral register has 7 John Smiths (without a second initial )
listed as living in Cleethorpes and 9 in Grimsby.
Keep looking John.
Best regards
Dave

davetodd
20th June 2008, 19:23
Sorry Dave, I thought that once you were given a GY number then that was it, it seems it is a number that can be moved to another boat.

I have skewed at 50 % so will give it a try.

I think that the 362/363 business is simply an error made at the time the certificates were written, not the first mistake I have come across.


John
John
I agree 363 should be discounted for now.
Regarding the thumbnail of the indenture.
It is clear that John Smith was apprenticed to the Company and not to an individual master/skipper.
The only ship mentioned is Nero but that does not mean she was the only ship John Smith sailed in.He may have sailed in any or all of that Company's fleet at some time.
He seems to have a satisfactory apprenticeship and to gain his mate's and then skipper's "Tickets" in quick time is well done.
Best Regards
Dave

davetodd
20th June 2008, 19:34
And a very brief ref to the GADRA.

The Times, Thursday, Feb 17, 1921
The Grimsby trawler Gadra was sunk in the Humber on Tuesday night after collision with another trawler, but no lives were lost.

Hilary
Hilary
Your post set me wondering about the sinking since the Gadra is entered in Letton and Colledge as an armed patrol vessel form 1939 to 1940 when she was returned to commercial use.
Reported lost on 6th January 1941.
After searching at the local library I found the attached .
This would suggest to me that the Gadra had been refloated and repaired to sreve again.
Some information (Adverts) on the attachments may trigger memories.
Best regards
Dave

mattarosa
20th June 2008, 19:43
Hi Dave
Despite the detailed explanation of the location, I would definitely need satnav!

Thanks for the very interesting information. It proves that you should always cross check your sources, or you may only have part of the story.

Hilary

johnblack5
20th June 2008, 22:59
John
That seems to be correct.
Starting a little earlier and refering to the indenture for John Smith, the address looks like 114 Grafton St. to me.
The 1904 Elct.Roll for 114 has no electors registered
40 has no electors registered.
The 1905 Elct.Roll for 114 has George Owen Williams as a registered elector.
40 has no electors registered.
Obviously this may have no relevance to your search, but you never know.
The 1911 Elct.Roll for 483 Weelsby St. has Jihn Smith as a registered elector.
Owner of this property seems to be Charles Jame Emptage
who also owns 28 Harold St. Grimsby. This would imply to me that John Smith is the tenant.
1913 and 1914 Elct .Roll has no registered electors at 70 Cooper Rd.
1918 Elct.Roll for 362 Cleethorpe Rd. Grimsby has Israel Goldstone as a registered elector.
1919 Elct Roll for 362 Cleethorpe Rd. has John and Kate Smith as registered electors.
This continues until 1924 but in 1925 the registered electors are Isaac Goldstone (Juror) Israel Goldstone + Percy and Rachael.
Once again it appears to me that John Smith is a tenant here.
So this agrees with what you have said.
If a later address is found then further info. can be gained from Electoral rolls
to fill in the missing years.
The 1935 Electoral register has 7 John Smiths (without a second initial )
listed as living in Cleethorpes and 9 in Grimsby.
Keep looking John.
Best regards
Dave

Hello Dave, Many thanks for all this good work. The address which is clear on my copy is 49 Grafton St. I found some additional details of the Goldstone link:

----- Original Message ---
Fishermen Prisoners.

The Grimsby Branch of the Royal National Mission to Deep Sea Fishermen, under the direction of Miss Newnham, has made the care of the fishermen prisoners its particular war work. From November, 1914, to November, 1918, some 33,909 food parcels were sent out to the fishermen prisoners, and 1,697 parcels of boots and clothing, without which the men would have fared badly in starving Germany.

In addition to this, war widows and wives were helped, some o1,049 17s. 6d. being spent in this relief work, a large proportion of the money coming from the South Adelaide Fund. To help wives and widows knitting work was also provided, Mrs. H. L. Taylor and Mrs. J. Smith helping greatly in the organisation of this work. It was started in December, 1914, and continued until the 14th of May last. The total garments knitted were: -- 7,255 pairs of sea boot stockings, 605 pairs of socks, 33 Jerseys and 36 pairs of Meltor twine gloves, for which o948 5s. 11d. was paid in wages.

Grandmother Kate busy knitting.

From Google it shows that Israel Goldstone was absent for the 1919 census, he was then: Israel Goldstone of 362 Cleethorpes Road 202164 PTE 1/5 West Yorks Infantry.

I also learnt more about this period og Grimsbys history. I will now order some more marriage certificates for his daughters in order to establish which of the Smiths in 1935 is the one we are looking for.

Again, many thanks

John

davetodd
21st June 2008, 11:46
Hi Dave
Despite the detailed explanation of the location, I would definitely need satnav!

Thanks for the very interesting information. It proves that you should always cross check your sources, or you may only have part of the story.

Hilary
The attached may help with navigation to the GADRA. I don't have SATNAV either.
Dave

mattarosa
22nd June 2008, 08:21
Dave
Thanks for sharing this interesting map. Hope you enjoy the rest of the weekend.
Hilary

johnblack5
22nd June 2008, 09:40
John,
If any records exist of those who attended the Institute I would think they would be kept in the archives by N E Lincs Coucil, at the Town Hall. The man to contact is John Wilson. Unfortunatly I don't have a contact number.

Grimsby Library published a booklet in 1966 called "The Fishing Log of Edwin Green Smith, 1884-1888" It is the day to day account of wind direction fishing grounds and catches.

Steve

Booklet no longer available Steve.

John

Steve Farrow
24th June 2008, 20:16
I will see if any second hand copies crop up in the near future!

For those people interested, there is a thread about G. F. Sleight's trawlers in the Ship Research section.

Steve

johnblack5
24th June 2008, 23:30
Hi Steve and Dave
Just to let you know we are heading for the Mountains In Brecon for a couple of weeks. However, I must thank everyone on the Nostalgia web-site for being so friendy and helping me to solve the movements of Skipper John Smith.
Best wishes

John

I will be back !!!!

treeve
25th June 2008, 03:42
I have just received some interesting information (though very little). Robert George Reeves of Grimsby (who apparently came from Brixham with other members of the family around 1860), owned a smack GY 414 named BURTON (though I suspect it was BARTON ON.67704 of 1873), the sister vessel was named STATHER. Is there any chance anyone can offer any advice please, or information. Best Wishes, Raymond

billblow
25th June 2008, 09:27
Raymond
I think you will find it is Burton.
Burton Stather is a village in Nth Lincs between Scunthorpe and the Humber.
Don't know anything about the vessel Stather
Bill

gil mayes
25th June 2008, 10:07
GY414 BURTON (67704) 1st Class Smack was registered at Grimsby 12.9.1892. The early Returns do not always show closing of register but she is not recorded in 1899.
Gil.

Steve Farrow
25th June 2008, 10:24
From Cox's, "Sailing Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby".......
BURTON registered on 3/1873. Built by J. Wray of Burton Stather.. Dandy trawl. 68.87 reg tons, 72' length,x 19.2' x 10.05'. 3men & 2 boys.
R. G. Reeves (Owner) 1/1882 J. Plastow (Owner). ( W. Clerke, J. L. Johnson, & Gempton, skippers.) 4/1897 H.Greer (Owner) Off No 67704
Sold to Norway 4/1897.

Steve

treeve
25th June 2008, 14:23
Thanks very much, Bill, Gil and Steve; I had the Barton and ON given by another relative of RG Reeves, who had clearly been given the wrong information; That is brilliant. Best Wishes, Raymond

davetodd
25th June 2008, 17:43
Hi Dave
Despite the detailed explanation of the location, I would definitely need satnav!

Thanks for the very interesting information. It proves that you should always cross check your sources, or you may only have part of the story.

Hilary
Hilary
Gadra lives to fight another day.
The attached from Grimsby Evening Telegraph 15th March 1921
Best regards
Dave

treeve
25th June 2008, 22:06
Now, here's a question ... How can I get a copy of
Charles Bernard Cox - "Sailing Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby";
Amazon is out of stock; I suspect anyone that has a copy will hang on to it
unless attacked by Ninja warriors. And even then a struggle would ensue.
Google does not come up trumps at all. All best, Raymond

Steve Farrow
26th June 2008, 12:38
Raymond,
It was printed locally by Grimsby Copy Centre 251, Cleethorpe Road, Grimsby in 1990, but I having just telephoned them, no cpies are available.
Regards
Steve

treeve
26th June 2008, 17:52
Thanks Steve, I suspected as much ... rather rare. I have just received a very kind offer, which I have accepted gratefully. Best Wishes, Raymond

hallifax
7th July 2008, 21:21
has anyone got a colour photo of northern reward please

Kerbtrawler
8th July 2008, 20:05
Sorry Stephen
I've only got black and white, but I will keep looking

treeve
8th July 2008, 21:27
Don't forget Steve's painting of Northern Gift, sister ship to Northern Reward on trawlerart.

Kerbtrawler
8th July 2008, 21:30
Well remembered that man...

cheers

johnblack5
9th July 2008, 15:09
Hi Dave

While on holiday I bought a copy of "A Life on the Humber, Keeling to Shipbuilding by Harry Fletcher" an interesting book now free to anyone who wants it, just pay the postage.

Byee

John

Steve Farrow
10th July 2008, 11:32
has anyone got a colour photo of northern reward please

I have emailed two pics of the Northen Reward to Trevor.

Regards

Steve

johnblack5
21st July 2008, 09:21
Hi Dave
Just a thought. On the marriage certificate for Christine Smith in 1938 the address for both parties is shown as being 90 Grimsby Road, can you check this one. In the past the bride married from the parents address, why her husband is included I do not know, rather racy for the time. The groom was Benjamin Thompson Nicholson.

Regards


John

Kerbtrawler
24th July 2008, 20:39
Hi Steve,

Thanks to your Help we able to have the full vessel put onto my Father Birthday Cake celebrating his 80th

The Northern reward looked good enough to eat - bad pun i know but couldn't help it,

Once again thanks

treeve
30th July 2008, 17:04
I have just been notified by Malcolm Cameron that Staunton GY 350 (including picture) is included in the book Maritime, by the late John Jeffries;
ISBN No. 9780955 663406
http://www.jjmaritime.co.uk/
Best Wishes, Raymond

Steve Farrow
30th July 2008, 22:12
Raymond,
The picture of the STAUNTON you refer to is a painting I did of her using a sister ship because no photo of her has been published to the best of my knowledge.

Regards

Steve

mattarosa
30th July 2008, 22:38
Raymond,
The picture of the STAUNTON you refer to is a painting I did of her using a sister ship because no photo of her has been published to the best of my knowledge.

Regards

Steve

My heart nearly stopped when I saw the words photo and Staunton together. Steve has some idea how long I have been looking for a picture of her.

Why is your picture of Staunton in this particular book, Steve (or Raymond) - did the author serve on Staunton?

And I am sure I must have asked you this before, Steve, but what ship is your painting of Staunton based on? I understood (not sure where or who from) that Staunton did not have any sister ships, but that seems to be wrong information.

Hilary

Steve Farrow
30th July 2008, 22:55
Hilary,
I must admit I felt the same way! When I saw it was a painting of mine, I remembered that the author of the book contacted me a few years ago asking if he could use the image.
Staunton's sister ships were SHERATON, SICYON, PRETORIA and the BRITISH EMPIRE, all built by CW&G.
Hope this helps,
Regards
Steve

treeve
31st July 2008, 00:55
I received the email today, and in view of the interest in Staunton, I thought it as well to pass this on ... I am glad it is your excellent painting Steve. John Jeffries has passed on apparently, and left a great deal of information, pictures and stories for all to enjoy. Best Wishes, Raymond

di1604
3rd August 2008, 13:13
Hi does anyone have any information/Pics on the Velinda GY29, please

johnblack5
3rd August 2008, 13:45
Hello Dave
As you did not reply to my last request for help I am wondering if you are fit and well, Please let me know, without you I make little progress.

Regards


John

davetodd
3rd August 2008, 15:01
Hi does anyone have any information/Pics on the Velinda GY29, please
Grimsby Reference Library have four photographs of Velinda GY29.
She was built in 1956 at Beverley as an oil-fired steam trawler.
Official Number 184948 779 Gross Tons 296 Nett.
Owners were Atlas Steam Fishing Company Limited.
This vessel is quite a leap from your earlier query regarding Apprentices of the 1800's!
What is the connection?
Regards
Dave

di1604
3rd August 2008, 17:35
Grimsby Reference Library have four photographs of Velinda GY29.
She was built in 1956 at Beverley as an oil-fired steam trawler.
Official Number 184948 779 Gross Tons 296 Nett.
Owners were Atlas Steam Fishing Company Limited.
This vessel is quite a leap from your earlier query regarding Apprentices of the 1800's!
What is the connection?
Regards
Dave


Hi Dave, no connection, someone I know was named after it, and asked me if I could find out anything about it for them.

Kerbtrawler
3rd August 2008, 19:34
Hi does anyone have any information/Pics on the Velinda GY29, please

I can send you a picture of the velinda along side in Grimsby Docks if you want

let me know

cheers

di1604
3rd August 2008, 23:41
Hi that would be great thanks, do you know what happened to her?

davetodd
4th August 2008, 00:14
Hi that would be great thanks, do you know what happened to her?
Sorry di, should have added to my info. for you.
Velinda GY29 Broken up in 1976.
Dave

Kerbtrawler
4th August 2008, 10:14
I will send it tonight please send me your email by PM

cheers

di1604
4th August 2008, 20:02
Received picture ,she is really pleased. Thank you from me and her

Roger Griffiths
5th August 2008, 23:00
A little off topic.
Hello all,
Has anyone any idea on how the requistioned Aberdeen trawler MIRABELLE ex EDWARD BARKER was lost.
She was based at GY and was being used as an Esso when she was sunk in collision 17/9/1944.
I have read she collided with a boom but cannot substantiate this.
Any idea's?
thanks and regards
Roger

treeve
6th August 2008, 00:34
Generally reported as being rammed by accident.
http://www.aberdeenships.com/single.asp?searchFor=abel&index=101389
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/rayricho/1921.htm
Best Wishes, Raymond

Roger Griffiths
6th August 2008, 01:41
Hello Raymond,
I have seen those links. I know she was in collision/rammed. I am trying to find out by whom/what.

best regards
Roger

gil mayes
6th August 2008, 23:20
Roger

Probably old hat. MIRABELLE was requisitioned 25.11.1939 and designated as a M/S until 1.2.1940, from 22.4.1940 to 7.3.1942 she operated as a Patrol vessel and from 1.4.1944 she was on miscellaneous Naval duties. As an Esso/smoke making trawler she was at Normandy as part of Group B sailing Rosyth 10.6.1944, Solent 11.6.1944 as part of Convoy ETC6 arriving Mulberry B 12.6.1944. Her record just ends "sunk 17.9.1944" but given time it is possible that more info is contained in ADM199.
Gil.

Roger Griffiths
7th August 2008, 08:57
Morning Gil,
Thanks for that. I suspect the answer is in ADM199. Will look at the war diaries next time I am there.


regards
Roger

Roger Griffiths
8th August 2008, 00:32
Hello,
Has anyone got any career details of these two trawlers who apparently were fishing out of Grimsby in 1944. EMERALD T C & F Moss 104172 and DIAMOND T C & F Moss 104168

regards
Roger

aavh
8th August 2008, 10:22
According to Cox & Toghill


Emerald 104172 built 1894 Cochranes Beverley 150g 63n 101ft x 20.5ft x 11ft 45hp
06.1894 Registered at Grimsby GY 613 to T C Moss, 29.05.1917:Requisitioned as Fishery Resrve Vessel. 1919: Returned to Owners. 3.1921: Owned by T C & F Moss, 10.1943: owned by Great Grimsby & East Coast Steam Fishing Co Ltd. 26.01.1944: Missing.

Diamond 104168 built Cochranes Beverley 150g 63n 101ft x 20.5 x 11ft 45hp.
05.1894: Registered at Grimsby GY 603 to T C & F Moss 29.05.1917: Requisitioned as Fishery Reserve Vessel. 1919: Returned to Owners.
01.1946: Owned by Jubilee Fishing Co Ltd London, 06.1952: Scrapped.

Roger Griffiths
8th August 2008, 20:59
Hello Andy,
Thanks for the input.
The reason I asked is that I have seen it claimed on another forum that both these vessels sailing together with IRANIAN GY728 were torpedoed early in 1944.
An eye witness report apparently.
Think I'll go to Specsavers.

rgards
Roger

Steve Farrow
10th August 2008, 21:03
I was given a handwritten document containing the instructions for the building of a new sailing smack. I have typed it out for clarity for those who maybe interested in this type of vessel......

The Specification for a new Sailing Smack, to be built by John Bell at his shipbuilding yard, Union Dock, Great Grimsby.


Length of hull 70 feet. Breadth of beam 20 feet, Depth of hold, 10' x 6" inches. Hull to be of American Elm, sided 8" x 12"
Stem and stern post to be of oak, sided 8" Deadwood to be bolted with 1" iron bolts.
(Floors and timbers) to be of oak & sided 6 to 7 inches.
(Keelson) To be of oak & sided 8"x 10" and to be bolted with 1" iron bolts.
(Outside planking) To be of American Elm of Oak 2 ½ " thick up to height mark. From shoulder to topsides to be of oak 32" thick, bolted through.
(Carling) To be of oak 1 ½ " thick and fastened with spikes and two bilge planks on each side to be 2 ½ " thick, fastened with 5/8 " metal bolts in every alternate timber.
(Stanchions) To be of oak, sided 5 ½ " x 4 ½ "
(Clamps) To be of oak, sided 2 ½ " thick
(Shelves) To be of oak, 5" thick, bolted with 11/16 " iron bolts in the usual way.
(Pawl Bitts) To be of oak 8" square and to same.
(Fastenings) To be fastened with oak treenails and all necessary bolts to be of metal up to the ballast mark.
(Beams) To be of oak and about 22 in number, sided and moulded 6 ½ " x 7" and fastened with 2, ¾ " bolts in each end.
(Knees) To have twelve in each side, fastened with 5/8" iron bolts as usual. Also from iron shaped on each side down to bilge, fastened with 13/16" iron bolts.
(Covering Board) To be of oak 2 ½" thick, fastened with iron bolts.
Windlass & Dandy winch bitts to be of oak, sided 4" x 12"
Fore winch bitts to be of oak sided 5" x 12" with oak knees fastened with 11/16" iron bolts.
Skylight hatchways, bollard and all deck framing, to be secured and bolted in the usual way.
(Decks) To be of good redwood & fastened with enough spikes.
Horse, mainsheet block, bowsprit bitts & belly bollard to be of oak, rolled & fashioned with iron bolts as usual.
Rails and warping chocks to be of oak or elm fastened with nails or bolts.
(Bulwarks) To be of oak 1" thick round the bows and the remainder to be of 1" plane deal, fashioned with iron bars.
(Caulking) To be caulked with good oakum and pitch.
(Chainplates) To be bolted, with ¾ " iron bolts.
(Cabin-Fishroom) These to be of deal & fitted up as customary as in port.
(Pumps) To find one & one slush pump and all necessary ironwork used in the construction of the hull of a trawling smack & complete the same up to a workmanlike manner.
Also, to find one new boat.


…………………………………

The price of the said smack to be nine hundred and fifty pounds.

SIGNED……JOHN GUZZWELL,

This day Twenty sixth day of September One Thousand Eight Hundred & Eighty-Five (26/09/1885)

..................................

Steve

RayL
15th August 2008, 23:26
Thanks for the fascinating reading on this thread. In the summer of 1968 I did a trip out of Grimsby in the 'Ross Kashmir', and the purpose was just to try and keep my 'ticket' valid so I would, if necessary, be able to return to the M.N. as a R/O (for the last 12 months I had been working for B.R. in Nottingham).

Almost immediately I was struck down with seasickness - the reason being the different motion on such a small vessel. It took me two days to adjust, and even so I had a repeat later in the 16-day voyage. At least it excused me from having to do my share of the 'cod liver oil' work!

We broke down off Iceland and had to use rockets to deliver ropes to a trawler that came to our rescue. It towed us to the Faeroe Islands - a nice bonus to visit a remote place like that. A special bolt was flown to us there and the engine was restored.

Somebody raided my cabin as we docked at Grimsby (I was on the bridge) and I lost a couple of personal items.

The final irony - I had done it all for nothing because I later discovered that you had to go to sea for a minimum of a month to keep your ticket alive!

mattarosa
16th August 2008, 08:36
[QUOTE=Steve Farrow;237731]I was given a handwritten document containing the instructions for the building of a new sailing smack. I have typed it out for clarity for those who maybe interested in this type of vessel......

Very interesting, Steve. I've just had some furniture delivered made of oak, but it was made in Vietnam, I don't think we have much oak left here.

Obviously your "recipe" also requires craftsmen to put it all together, not sure we have many of them either.

Hilary

mattarosa
16th August 2008, 08:44
[QUOTE=RayL;239094]In the summer of 1968 I did a trip out of Grimsby in the 'Ross Kashmir'

Hi Ray
Thanks for sharing this story with us. The only thing I know about the Ross Kashmir is that in 1965 (I think) it was lengthened and converted to diesel, along with several other Ross trawlers, but I expect others on this site know more.

What a shame you were sick, and that the trip was pointless in terms of your original goal, but it was still an experience that most people never have, and you have obviously vividly remembered it.

Hilary

Steve Farrow
16th August 2008, 09:22
Hi Hilary,
Craftsmen they certainly were! I'm not a shipwright but having watched many of these people set to work with thier many varied tools, I have a great appreciation for them. The sharp edges of thier adze's and chizels would turn blue within minutes as they shaped those hardwoods!
Those skills are still out there but in fewer numbers.

Steve

gil mayes
16th August 2008, 20:34
As a shipwright, nice to be appreciated.
Gil.

kazB
18th August 2008, 16:35
Hi all, just joined the forum today, I had googled the name of the ship my grandad was lost with and this forum came up.
I've read the previous posts on The Sheldon which I found very interesting, I have been to the local library and printed off copies of the reports in the local paper.

What I'd really like to do now is find out more about grandads life, other ships he sailed on, he was in the Navy, can I find out more about his naval career?

Also my family have connections with the Lifeboat station at Cromer (according to family rumour) so any pointers would be much appreciated.

I still live in Grimsby so any help I can give other members, I'd be more than happy.

Thanks Karen.

johnblack5
19th August 2008, 08:28
Hi Karen
We are on the same quest, find out about my grandfather. A lady who has been really helpful is Jennie in the Grimsby Library, you should have a chat with her. I found out the my Grandfather, John Smith has been a Grimsby Fishing Apprentice, I managed via Kew to obtain a copy of his ticket. His first wife died after only 6 years and through this site I have managed to obtain a photograph of this lady, my Grandmother. I finally got to him living in Cleethorpes with a new wife and 4 daughters, there my trail has ended.
Good luck with your search, this is a super site.

John

kazB
19th August 2008, 08:54
Hi John

Thanks for replying!

It may have been Jennie who helped me find all the newspaper reports from The Sheldon - very helpful lady. I'll have to go back and see her though to see what else I can find out!

Have just started looking into my grandfather's apprentiship but I don't know much about him yet and I don't think he's a Grimsby lad.
Did you find that out at the library?

As for your grandfather's new family have you tried genesreunited it's good for finding more recent ancestors!

Karen

Steve Farrow
19th August 2008, 09:45
Hi Karen,

What was the name of your grandfather?

If you go to the Gallery and type SHELDON, an image of one of my paintings will show......Here is what I wrote in the Bygones.



As the violent storm of late January and early February in 1953 swept across the United Kingdom and beyond, reeking havoc and destruction along its path, ships out at sea struggled to survive the hurricane force winds and mountainous seas.
One such vessel was the 41 year old Grimsby trawler SHELDON and her 14-man crew.
She had sailed from Grimsby on 26th January and after calling at Kirkwall, left that port on the 30th, the night before the fierce storms, heading for the Faroe fishing grounds.
For twelve days nothing was heard of her and an appeal was made through the BBC to try and make contact.
A spokesman for her owners, Sir Thomas Robinson & Son Ltd. Said, “ Sheldon may have her wireless out of action and may be somewhere off the west coast of Scotland.”
All ships were told to keep a look-out for her and the fisheries protection vessel, COQUETTE began to make a search of the area where they thought she might be. There was south-easterly gale with heavy seas and snow at the time with 31 trawlers sheltering in Cromarty Firth.
Fears that she had been lost gradually hit home and it was assumed that she had been swamped by huge seas. It was particularly tragic in that the skipper, Tom Beesley, had his 24 year old son Roland on board as mate. Two other crew had travelled out to join her, replacing two sick crew.
The owners said that of the 23 of their ships that had been out at sea during the gales, only the SHELDON failed to make it back, but about 10 of them had suffered damage.
The Grimsby trawler BURFELL had spoken to the SHELDON at 1pm on the 30th January, but since then nothing more had been heard.
On the 14th February, the Grimsby Evening Telegraph reported that several flights from Scottish Command had been made over an area to the north of the Orkneys. The trawler CUNNINGHAM had been steaming about three hours behind the SHELDON but heard and saw nothing more of her. No wreckage had been found at that stage and the air and sea search was continuing. Then on the following day, the 18th February, the owners officially abandoned all hope for the ship. At the outset Mr Frank Robinson had personally visited the relatives of the crew to keep them all informed about the situation.
On the sad day that hope was abandoned, the port missioner Mt Albert Broughton took the sad news to the families.
Just one week later a lifebuoy from the SHELDON was picked up in the Shetlands at Hamna Voe.
Of the crew, 10 were married men. Skipper Beesley (57) lived in Garnett St Cleethorpes. He had been skipper of the ship for five years.
His son Roland lived in Humberstone Rd Grimsby.
The chief engineer H. V. Wass (51) Frankland Place, Cleethorpes,
Second engineer Mr B. Cullen (43) Wades Avenue, Grimsby.
Third hand Mr H. Hess, (38) Grimsby Rd Cleethorpes.
Deckhands, Mr S. B. Blastland (30) Pelham St, Grimsby.
J.W. Swinscoe, (29) Park St Grimsby.
Mr. G. H. Young (54) , Fraser St Grimsby.
Deckhand-Trimmers, Mr. T. Bell, (42) Fuller St Cleethorpes
Mr. T. S. Carlton, Bedford St Grimsby.
Firemen, Mr. K. Burrett,(36), Eleanor St Grimsby.
Mr. J. Haywood (28) Elliston St Cleethorpes.
Cook, Mr. S. King, (30) Edward St Grimsby.
When the SHELDON put into Kirkwall, the cook, Mr. K. Hotson of Springfield Rd , Leicester and deckhand, Mr. A. Algar of Lovett St Cleethorpes left the vessel due to illness.

The SHELDON was built by Cook, Welton and Gemmell in Beverley and launched in 1912. Her owners were the Standard Steam Fg Co. Ltd. In 1915 she was requisitioned by the Admiralty and converted into a mine-sweeper.
She was returned in 1919.
Bought by Sir Thomas Robinson & Sons Ltd. In January 1940.
1940 saw her in the admiralty once again as an auxiliary patrol vessel, then in March 1942, converted into a mine-sweeper again. Returned to fishing in 1945.
288 gross tons
144 net ton89hp engines
Armed with WW1 6pdr
Bomb thrower
2 x machine guns
Admiralty No 1407Pennant No 4.143 (APV)

Steve

kazB
19th August 2008, 11:09
Thanks for that Steve, it's hard to imagine how the families must have felt!

My grandad was Bernard Cullen, my dad Jack being his elsest son, he was 20 at the time of his dad's death with 5 younger siblings.

Your account is very good, I do have the Bygones with it in.

Thanks again, Karen.

davetodd
20th August 2008, 23:48
Hello Dave
As you did not reply to my last request for help I am wondering if you are fit and well, Please let me know, without you I make little progress.

Regards


John
Hello John,
Sorry for the delay.
Had a look for some more info. for you today.
This what I found.
1935-6 Grimsby Cleethorpes Directory
90 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes Occupant J.Smith
92 " " " T.Smith

1938 Electoral Roll
90 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes John Smith & Kate Smith
92 " " Tom Smith & Annie Maria Smith
+ Fred Harness & Annie Harness

1939 Electoral Roll
90 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes John Smith & Kate Smith
92 " " Francis Hanneman & Ethel Hanneman

No Electoral rolls during WW2

1945-46 Electoral Roll
90 Grimsby Rd. Cleethorpes Millicent Beaumont & Walter J. Beaumont
92 " " Douglas Buttle & Joyce Wison.

Best Regards
Dave

mattarosa
25th August 2008, 11:43
Hello all

I have recently seen these two pictures on the Internet, both of GY73.

Can anyone help me identify them please?

Hilary

johnblack5
25th August 2008, 13:25
Hello

If anyone reading this is passing by 90 Grimsby Road then please take a photo for me. Last known home of my Grandfather in 1939. If you know where me moved after that then you have solved a mystery.

Thanks


John

Roger Griffiths
25th August 2008, 13:29
Hello all

I have recently seen these two pictures on the Internet, both of GY73.

Can anyone help me identify them please?

Hilary

Hilary,
I suggest the colour pic is the CWG built WAR STAR 136005.

regards
Roger

Steve Farrow
25th August 2008, 15:02
Hello all

I have recently seen these two pictures on the Internet, both of GY73.

Can anyone help me identify them please?

Hilary

Hi Hilary,

The first picture is the anchor seiner JOHANNE S, built at Fredrikshaven in 1938. In 1957 she was owned by Anglo Danish Trout Co Ltd. Grimsby.
I can just remember her sailing out of GY.

Regards

Steve

davetodd
25th August 2008, 17:15
Hilary,
GY73.
Johanne S
Confirm Steve's comments and add that Johanne S was listed in the 1960 Olsen's almanac and still listed as GY73 in 1965.
Owners in 1960 given as Anglo Danish trout Co.
Grimsby Library have five photographs of Johanne S as GY73

Warstar
Agree with Roger's comments re Warstar.
Served as Minesweeper in WW1 Adm.No.1633 from August 1915 to 1919.
!934 appears in 1934 Olsen's with owners Earl S.F.Co.Ltd. Grimsby
Served in WW2 as FY292 from 1940 to February 1946.
In 1947 appears in Olsen's as A130 owners Wm.&J.Wood Aberdeen
In 1960 Olsen's appears as A130 owners Wm.Wood & others.
But I have her as broken up in 1959.
Grimsby Library have one photograph of Warstar as A130
However, this ifnormation re. Warstar does not confirm that the coloured image is this vessel, but it could be.
It would seem that she was registered at Aberdeen after WW2.
Perhaps that would help date the painting.
Best Regards
Dave

Roger Griffiths
25th August 2008, 18:20
Hello Dave,
WARSTAR was on the GY register from 14/5/1914 until being sold to Irish interests on 16/9/1938. She made a brief return on 22/5/1940 as GY294 before being sold to the Admiralty on 23/9/1940.
As far as I know there were 3 previous vessels which carried the port number GY73
JUNO 1859-?
CONFIDENCE o/n 56969 1869? -3/11/1894
ABYDOS o/n 118949 5/7/1905-20/3/1907
The vessel in the pic looks like she carried a radio so my money would be on WARSTAR circa 1920/30.

regards
Roger

davetodd
25th August 2008, 18:27
Hello Dave,
WARSTAR was on the GY register from 14/5/1914 until being sold to Irish interests on 16/9/1938. She made a brief return on 22/5/1940 as GY294 before being sold to the Admiralty on 23/9/1940.
As far as I know there were 3 previous vessels which carried the port number GY73
JUNO 1859-?
CONFIDENCE o/n 56969 1869? -3/11/1894
ABYDOS o/n 118949 5/7/1905-20/3/1907
The vessel in the pic looks like she carried a radio so my money would be on WARSTAR circa 1920/30.

regards
Roger

Roger,
I agree.
The Abydos ON 118949 was owned by Roberts and Ruthven but since she was lost in 1907 I have discounted her.
Warstar is the favourite.
Dave

mattarosa
25th August 2008, 19:50
Thanks Roger, Steve and Dave, for the information. Very helpful, as always.

Hilary

gil mayes
26th August 2008, 23:07
Hilary
Better late than never.
WARSTAR (GY73) (1914-1915 & 1922-1928)
O.N. 136005. 225g 112n 117.0 x 22.0 x 12.1 feet
T.3-cyl by Amos & Smith Ltd, Hull

12.2.1914: Launched by Cook, Welton & Gemmell Ltd, Beverley (Yd.No.289) for Pelham Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Alex Black, manager) as Warstar. 14.5.1914: Registered at Grimsby (GY73). 5.1914: Completed. Fishing from Fleetwood. 8.1914: Requisitioned for war service and converted for minesweeping duties (Ad.No.1633). 2.11.1915: Sold to Harold Croft Baker, Cleethorpes. 7.10.1918: Sold to Harry Woods & Others, Grimsby. 10.10.1918: Re-registered at Grimsby (GY73). 1919: Returned. 26.1.1920: Sold to Smithfield Trawlers Ltd, London (W. Goldstein, manager). Fishing from Fleetwood. 12.1920: Sold to Lewis Trawling Co, Grimsby. 8.1922: Sold to Earl Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Sir Alec Black, Bart, manager). Transferred to Fleetwood. 1928: Transferred to Grimsby. 16.9.1938: Sold to Mathew J. McCabe & W. M. M. Curtis, Dublin (A. Williams, manager). 17.9.1938: Grimsby registry closed. 9.1938: Registered at Dublin (D121). 1939: Sold to W. M. M. Curtis, Dublin. 5.1940: Sold to Earl Steam Fishing Co Ltd, Grimsby (Sir Alec Black, Bt, manager). 5.1940: Dublin registry closed. 22.5.1940: Registered at Grimsby (GY294). 5.1940: Requisitioned for war service and converted for auxiliary patrol duties 1940: Sold to The Admiralty. 23.9.1940: Grimsby registry closed. 6.1942: Converted for minesweeping duties (P.No.FY.292). 5.1944: Converted to a fuel carrier (“Esso”). 10.1944: At Milford, port duties. 9.1945: Towing at Milford, “To return to fishing”. 10.1945: Paid off C&M at Plymouth. 5.1946: Sold to William Wood, Aberdeen. 5.1946: Registered at Aberdeen (A130). 10.1959: Sold to BISCO (£2050) and allocated to Shipbreaking Industries Ltd for demolition at Charlestown, Fife (Contract No.72E). 2.11.1959: Arrived Charlestown from Aberdeen towing Gunton (A12). 7.11.1959: Delivered. 21.3.1960: Demolition commenced.
Gil.

mattarosa
27th August 2008, 07:44
Many thanks, Gil. Warstar had a very interesting and varied career!

Hilary

jimbrechin
26th September 2008, 12:46
Can any of you guys help me. I am trying to trace Peter Crane Skipper of the Ross Revenge, Ross Valiant etc in the late 1960's
I last saw Pete in Nigeria in 1981, how time flies. The next I heard of him was as Skipper of the Putford Athena.
Unfortunately Pete passed away a few years ago.

Jim

TSJ59
27th September 2008, 01:35
Hi All

The fate of Grimsby’s Steam Trawler Queenborough GY 658 is shown by Clydebuilt Ships Database and other sources as: “Went Missing After - 30/05/1917” but CWGC lists nine casualties remembered on Tower Hill Memorial with the date of death 21/03/1917. Just wondering if anyone knows of any subsequent details of her loss that may have emerged to convince CWGC the loss was war related and on that date?

Cheers, Terry

Brushy
27th September 2008, 08:12
Clem, I served my apprenticeship with Northern Trawlers from 1945 to 51. I have some pics of the northern boats and some stories too. My step fater was a trawler skipper for many many years. My uncle was Dod Osbourne of the "Girl Pat ' fame.
Cheers and all the luck in your research.
Bob Broome

Roger Griffiths
27th September 2008, 20:19
Hi All

The fate of Grimsby’s Steam Trawler Queenborough GY 658 is shown by Clydebuilt Ships Database and other sources as: “Went Missing After - 30/05/1917” but CWGC lists nine casualties remembered on Tower Hill Memorial with the date of death 21/03/1917. Just wondering if anyone knows of any subsequent details of her loss that may have emerged to convince CWGC the loss was war related and on that date?

Cheers, Terry


Hello Terry,
A strange one this.
Some of the citations at Tower Hill say QUEENBOROUGH was sunk by an enemy submarine eg.
COLLETT, Trimmer, CHARLES, Steam Trawler "Queenborough" (Grimsby). Mercantile Marine. Drowned, as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine, 21st March 1917. Age 42. Husband of Mrs. Collett, of 47, Rut-land St., Grimsby. Born in London.
The question is, if so, which one?
There is nothing in Lloyds losses or more to the point on uboat.net.
She was not requsitioned and her B of T logbook for 1917 is still intact.
I don't know where the Clydeside site got their info but the returns of GY fishing boats confirms this. (attached) I can only assume that Lloyds arbitration committee made a retrospective judgement but I cannot confirm this.
I note you have posted on the Great War forum. Try a post on the WW1 forum at uboat.net or could any one here enlighten us.


Roger

TSJ59
29th September 2008, 01:16
Hello Roger,

It is strange I agree. I would have thought the B.of T. date would be the last know sighting / contact but if the CWGC date is correct the loss was over two months earlier and I'd have thought Queenborough would have been posted missing much earlier!

As you probably know there are some resident U-Boat experts on the GWF but they have been quiet on this so far. So one to add to the more to do list!

Thanks for your input.

Cheers, Terry

billblow
29th September 2008, 13:14
Under the heading of Queensborough GY 658 in Cox's " The Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby" it says "missing since 30/05/1917, this vessel does not appear in Loss List, Admiralty Loss List or in the List of Vessels Requisitioned "
Billblow

Roger Griffiths
29th September 2008, 20:58
Hello Terry/Bill,
I have had discussions on this issue via e-mail. Michael Lowrey's reply seems to sum up the general concensus.
The CWGC was fairly liberal on including the crews of missing ships -- it seems that as long as there is a presumption of the loss being war related, the crew was included. That Spindler does not include a matching incident is not a problem to the CWGC -- have seen that in other cases where we've recently been able to establish a loss was in fact U-boat related and the crew of the missing vessel was already included in the CWGC database.

My best guess is the loss is circa March 21, 1917 with a postwar belief (which may or may not be accurate) that the trawler was lost through enemy action.

For my part wether or not the vessel was sunk by enemy action or not the fact is they where out there in hostile waters doing thier bit for Country if not King so as far as I am concerned they are intitled to be on the Tower Hil Memorial.

regards
Roger

TSJ59
30th September 2008, 01:04
Thanks Bill/Rodger,

I had seen Cox's "The Steam Trawlers and Liners of Grimsby" and briefly thought Queensborough and Queenborough might be different vessels. I have seen Michael's reply on the GWF and have to agree - perhaps something might turn up after this airing.

Good to see the crew are commemorated by the CWGC.

Cheers, Terry

davetodd
30th September 2008, 22:58
Terry,
today i had a look through back copies of the Grimsby Daily Telegraph for info. re Queenborough.
No luck i'm afraid, but did find the attached for March 1917.
Also looked through the April editions but no luck there either.
I know that the attached does not mention names of vessels but it may be of some interest to members researching that period.
Didn't find any mention of Queenborough in the press cuttings either.
Best Regards
Dave

TSJ59
2nd October 2008, 18:54
Hello David

Apologies for the slow response - life’s a bit hectic at present. Thanks for your interesting post that eliminates the need to search those papers/dates.
You might be interested in these details to the clipping you posted: (three PoW skippers):

McGovern Patrick, Skipper (b. 1875) of 242 Wellington Street, Grimsby. 13 Feb. 1917 Vessel King Alfred GY 217 Sunk 75 miles S. 16 E. of Fair Isle by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)

Rowson Henry, Skipper (b. 1863) of 132 Grimsby Road, Cleethorpes.
14 Feb. 1917 Vessel Belvoir Castle GY 2 Sunk 25 miles S. E. of Buchan Ness by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)

Broomhead G.H. Skipper (b. 1862) of 8 Arlington Street, Grimsby.
11 Feb. 1917 Vessel Ashwold GY 697 Sunk 130 miles NE by N. of Shields, by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)

All three skippers were taken prisoner and spent the rest of the war in PoW Camp Brandenburg. I cannot find any reports of casualties(deaths) or PoWs associated with the crews of the three vessels but on 4 Aug 1917 the crew of UC 44 were not so fortunate, UC 44 sank on one of her own mines that prematurely deployed 5207N 0659W, 28 dead and 1 survivor. Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns PoW 5.8.1917.

Cheers, Terry

Yorvick
3rd October 2008, 23:53
Can anyone help with a rough estimate as to what a Smack would cost in 1881 - and also any ideas on whether an 11 year old boy would be apprenticed to a ship owner in 1861 in Grimsby. His occupation is listed as school boy but he is with a Master and his wife not his parents on the vessel "Thomas"

K urgess
4th October 2008, 00:21
If you look here
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=37146
You'll see my GGFs indenture papers to the fishing in 1862. He was born in 1849 as far as I can make out so he would have been 12 or 13 when signing.
So it could be possible but he may just have been spending that particular day with family friends if he's listed as a schoolboy.
Sorry, no idea how much a smack would cost but someone else may be able to help.

Cheers
Kris

mattarosa
4th October 2008, 10:27
Can anyone help with a rough estimate as to what a Smack would cost in 1881 - and also any ideas on whether an 11 year old boy would be apprenticed to a ship owner in 1861 in Grimsby. His occupation is listed as school boy but he is with a Master and his wife not his parents on the vessel "Thomas"


Hello Yorvick
You may find some info on this very nice site, in the section "Smacks"

http://www.betty-ck145.de/docueng/index.html

In a very brief glance (I have to cut my grass before it starts raining) I noticed mention of smacks of 14 to 40 tons built at Brightlingsea and other places costing about £10 per registered ton for the hull, and a 20-ton smack costing about £180 to equip. This is possibly from a slightly earlier period than you are asking about (1857-67) but hopefully of some use. I also noticed a comment that smacks were often supplied on credit and were expected to repay their modest cost of perhaps ten pounds a ton in a few year's work.

Hilary

mattarosa
4th October 2008, 10:54
[QUOTE=Yorvick;251949]any ideas on whether an 11 year old boy would be apprenticed to a ship owner in 1861 in Grimsby.

Genealogists’ Magazine Vol. 25, No. 3 (September 1995), pp.99-105 had a very good article entitled "Youth migration – The fisher boy apprentices of Grimsby 1870 – 1914" in which the writer says:

QUOTE
In the initial stages children as young as eleven or twelve were bound in a few cases, and it was not until 1883 that a statutory minimum recruitment age of thirteen was established.
UNQUOTE

so it is quite possible that your boy could be an apprentice. However, I think if that were the case, his occupation would be given as Apprentice. I am inclined to suspect, like Kris, that there was a different relationship in this case.

Hilary

Steve Farrow
4th October 2008, 22:03
Yorvick,

When John Guzzwell ordered a sailing smack to be built by John Bell of Grimsby, on 26/9/1885, the cost was agreed at nine hundred and fifty pounds, the first hundred of which to be paid when the keel was laid.

Steve

Yorvick
4th October 2008, 23:17
Thank you all for your replies - the "school boy" bit threw me as normally the child would be called "scholar". In 1861 only 61 children where registered in England as a "School Boy" and only two are on "Vessels". It would now appear he is with his newly married sister and her husband a Master Kendall on the vessel Thomas, in Yorkshire. To add further to my confusion I have a copy of my GG Grandfathers apprenticeship papers in 1854, so I wandered what was going on. The cost (aprox) of a smack has been very useful as have the links - Thank you all

davetodd
7th October 2008, 22:36
Hello David

Apologies for the slow response - life’s a bit hectic at present. Thanks for your interesting post that eliminates the need to search those papers/dates.
You might be interested in these details to the clipping you posted: (three PoW skippers):

McGovern Patrick, Skipper (b. 1875) of 242 Wellington Street, Grimsby. 13 Feb. 1917 Vessel King Alfred GY 217 Sunk 75 miles S. 16 E. of Fair Isle by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)

Rowson Henry, Skipper (b. 1863) of 132 Grimsby Road, Cleethorpes.
14 Feb. 1917 Vessel Belvoir Castle GY 2 Sunk 25 miles S. E. of Buchan Ness by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)

Broomhead G.H. Skipper (b. 1862) of 8 Arlington Street, Grimsby.
11 Feb. 1917 Vessel Ashwold GY 697 Sunk 130 miles NE by N. of Shields, by UC 44 (Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns)

All three skippers were taken prisoner and spent the rest of the war in PoW Camp Brandenburg. I cannot find any reports of casualties(deaths) or PoWs associated with the crews of the three vessels but on 4 Aug 1917 the crew of UC 44 were not so fortunate, UC 44 sank on one of her own mines that prematurely deployed 5207N 0659W, 28 dead and 1 survivor. Kapitänleutnant Kurt Tebbenjohanns PoW 5.8.1917.

Cheers, Terry
Terry,
Many thanks for the interesting detail to add to the bare bones of the censored newspaper report.
Grimsby Library are presenting a small exhibition regarding Grimsby and WW1 this coming November and with your permission I will let the Librarian have the details you provided.
Best Regards
Dave.

TSJ59
8th October 2008, 00:44
Dave - No problems with that - Can provide the sources if required and thanks for info. re. the exhibition I will make sure I attend.

Cheers, Terry

davetodd
8th October 2008, 16:47
Dave - No problems with that - Can provide the sources if required and thanks for info. re. the exhibition I will make sure I attend.

Cheers, Terry
Terry,
I would be obliged if you can let me know the source if you can.
Regards
Dave
P.S. Have attached the info. for the WW1 exhibition.

JRB9019
8th October 2008, 18:10
I
I found that there was no list of Alfred Bannister’s vessels as such.

Vessels owned by Alfred Bannister or subsidiaries.
Period 1900-1919
Alfred Bannister Trawlers Ltd
East Anglia Steam Fishing Company Ltd EASFCo
Forward Steam Fishing Company Ltd. FSFCo
Spurn Steam Fishing Company SSFCo

Algoma; SpurnSFCo; GY 6.
Andes; GY 5.
Argentina; GY 566. NICA
Bernicia; EastAngliaSFCo; 1910 GY 473.
Brittannia; 1910 GY 410.
Buzzard;II GY 825.
Camenes; GY 531
Dee; GY 513.
Derwent; GY 525.
Don; GY 517. NICA
Dovey; GY 425. NICA
Edinboro Castle; GY 1285
Ephraim ? GY ????
Eulalia (Ocana) GY 273
Ferret; GY 438 NICA
Frances GY 903
Irwell; GY 1176 NICA
Kalso; 1910 GY 725
Kestrel; GY 831
Kuno; 1910 GY 1129 NICA
Mercia; EASFCo; 1910 GY 1212
Napier; GY 597 NICA
Northumbria; EASFCo; GY 169 – Charles Forward (Deck Hand) 1911.
Northward; ForwardSFCo; 1910 GY 110
Onward II; FSFCo; 1910 GY 87
Ophir (II); 1910 GY 171
Orizaba; 1910 GY 356
Ostero; GY 200
Othello; 1910 GY 333
Saxon II (1894); GY 722 NICA
Sir James Reckitt; GY 1203 NICA
Southward; GY 288
Sylvia; GY 1112
Teuton; 1900 GY 795
Videro; GY 980 NICA
Wessex; EASFCo; 1910 GY???? NICA

Please can anyone confirm this list, add any Registrations.
NICA = No information currently available (as far as I am concerned!)

Best Wishes, Raymond

Hello Raymond,

I have just come across your posting re. Bannister Trawlers.
It's a long time ago (2005) don't know if you remember and if you still access this site. If you do - I would also be interested in finding out more about the company, it's trawlers, history etc. (As you now doubt are wondering why - I'm doing some old family research!!)

Can you (or anyone) give advice on any links that could help me??

Thanks in advance

John

Roger Griffiths
8th October 2008, 20:27
Hello Raymond

WESSEX 113231 GY1231 first registered 20/9/1902 posted missing 15/12/1914
I could not find EPHRAIM. I have EMPYREAN 136986 GY209 first registered 7/7/1914
If you still need them I will check the others out.


regards
Roger

davetodd
9th October 2008, 17:43
Steam trawler VONOLEL
Can anyone help with a Port Registration Number for Volonel O.N.132100
built 1911 by Cochranes yard no. 482
In 1913 the owner is given by Grimsby Archives as William Somerville Letten.
Skipper is given as J.Loftis.
I assume that her port of registry is Grimsby.
Many thanks.
Dave