West Hartlepool Jeeps

dom
31st May 2006, 04:16
theres been a lot of talk about sam boats fort/park,and T2s
what about the west hartlepool jeep,the only co i've sailed with that had some in their fleet were jones of newport ,uskmouth uskside,anybody else come across them

Mac
31st May 2006, 05:49
Jardine Mathesons had five wartime "Empire Malta" class, all built towards the end of the war by Wm Gray & Son, West Hartlepool for MOWT.
All were of approx 3550 Gt.
The first bought was the "Hangsang", ex "Empire Malta" followed by "Hinsang", "Hewsang", Hopsang" and "Hosang". They were used mainly in the Borneo to Hong Kong timber trade and lasted into the sixties, "Hosang" was sold by Jardines in 1968 and was scrapped in 1970 after 26 years afloat. I think they were known as "Jeeps."

wakaman
31st May 2006, 08:29
They must have had a monkey island. (*)) (*))

Peter4447
31st May 2006, 09:33
I think you will find Everards had one of these at one time. I think it's original name was 'Ashbel Hubbard'(*))
Peter4447

KenLin39
31st May 2006, 12:12
Hi. A friend of mine was on one called the "Lucy Bouchard" has anyone a photo for him please. Ken.

tom nicholson
31st May 2006, 14:23
the company you mentioned dom used to bring them to middle docks on the tyne in the late 50s early 60s i worked on them while serving my time, i believe they used to carry sparta grass at the time, all had the foremast on the focsle head.

cheers tom (*))

raybeti
31st May 2006, 19:12
Hogarths had some too, I sailed on the Baron Elibank 1954, built Greys

oldbosun
31st May 2006, 22:39
My first trip 1946 "Northern Pioneer". Managed by Wm. France Fenwick I think. I seem to have the impression that she still wore wartime colors. All grey.

This is the first mention I have ever heard about that type of ship after all the years that have gone by since. (60!) Can anybody steer me in the direction of a picture of "Northern Pioneer", or one of her type?

A shadow of a wisp of barely a faint chance, I Know

dom
1st June 2006, 10:03
i've no photos sorry, but post a query on one of the threads,they are very good and some one is sure to come up with something,there was a book ,the usk boats, jones of newport
dom

dom
3rd June 2006, 04:25
My first trip 1946 "Northern Pioneer". Managed by Wm. France Fenwick I think. I seem to have the impression that she still wore wartime colors. All grey.

This is the first mention I have ever heard about that type of ship after all the years that have gone by since. (60!) Can anybody steer me in the direction of a picture of "Northern Pioneer", or one of her type?

A shadow of a wisp of barely a faint chance, I Know
this is the only one i can find at the moment dom

oldbosun
3rd June 2006, 11:48
Ah yes that's the ship type. Why did I always have the impression that they were American built? The word 'Jeep'? Our American 2nd mate? How many of them were built,does anybody know?

Many thanks for the picture. Brings back a memory from the dim past. (Applause)

dom
3rd June 2006, 11:59
Ah yes that's the ship type. Why did I always have the impression that they were American built? The word 'Jeep'? Our American 2nd mate? How many of them were built,does anybody know?

Many thanks for the picture. Brings back a memory from the dim past. (Applause)

no idea where the name came from ,thats all i've ever known them as,dont even know where they were built,briish as they had an empire pre fix
dom

dom
3rd June 2006, 12:01
no idea where the name came from ,thats all i've ever known them as,dont even know where they were built,briish as they had an empire pre fix
dom go to google type empire valour 2nd page 3rd entry

Bruce Carson
3rd June 2006, 12:26
The "Jeeps" were An American wartime standard ship (N3-S-A1).
There is a previous thread with some information here:

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=4400&highlight=jeep

A picture, posted by John Feltham, at the following site:

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/13060/size/big/password/0/sort/2/cat/all
Note similarity to the ship photo posted by Dom.

I don't know how many were constructed, but the Walter Butler Shipbuilders, Inc., Superior, Wisconsin built eighteen in 1943 that went directly to Britain.
These were the smallest American war standard design and could be built on the Great Lakes for delivery to the East Coast.
Bruce C

dom
3rd June 2006, 13:23
there appears to be two types of this vessel,empire valour/uskmouth
built w.gray hartlepool 1943, maybe the name west hartlepool jeep is to difference the british and american built vesels

bert thompson
3rd June 2006, 17:02
Remember France Fenwick having one. 1946 in Aberdeen. The Captain was Falkinbridge from Whitby.
Another ship . Think the name was Dundrum Bay loaded with timber keeled over while discharging at Tyne Dock

Thwandy
29th August 2007, 22:37
Sailed on the ss.Letchworth as radio officer in March/April/May 1954 - Middleboro-Marsaille-Sfax-Leith . I have just put a photograph of it on the gallery.

I also signed on the ss.Uskport but did not sail on but was sent on a radar course and transfered to the m.v.Ireland which had just been acquired by Curries of Leith as their flag ship.

I understood the jeeps were very basic ships built to support the D day landings. They were coal burners with woodbine funnels and a top speed of 10 knots. The radio gear was primitve. I remember the emergency HT supply was two banks of 60 open cell lead acid accumulators many of which were smashed when we hit bad weather after leaving Marsaille.

With a deck cargo of esparta grass we hit a gale off the mouth of the Firth of Forth and got blown across to Norway and had to tack our way back.

MikeK
30th August 2007, 08:53
Jardine Mathesons had five wartime "Empire Malta" class, all built towards the end of the war by Wm Gray & Son, West Hartlepool for MOWT.
All were of approx 3550 Gt.
The first bought was the "Hangsang", ex "Empire Malta" followed by "Hinsang", "Hewsang", Hopsang" and "Hosang". They were used mainly in the Borneo to Hong Kong timber trade and lasted into the sixties, "Hosang" was sold by Jardines in 1968 and was scrapped in 1970 after 26 years afloat. I think they were known as "Jeeps."
My first ship on joining Jardines was the Hangsang (subsequently sailed on Hosang and Hinsang during my time with them)
I was a bit puzzled when I joined her. She was in the quarantine anchorage at Stonecutters Island, fresh in from Borneo yet the decks were covered in men unlashing the log deck cargo. It turned out that there were no 'professional' stevedores in the ports visited in Borneo so the 'H' boats carried their own, signed on as sailor/stevedore. The total crew hovered between 88 and 92 and she was a veritable rabbit warren of accomodation, even still having enough room for 'Asian First Class' passengers on the boat deck - another 12 !! The H boats had had a hard life by the time I joined them in '64 carrying small general cargo southbound and a full log cargo north. (almost invariably arriving in HK with the GM around zero !) We reckoned if you could line the holes up in the hold bulkheads you would see from one end to the other !! The Chinese crew were also experts in patching over rusty holes in the accom bulkheads with paint covered silver paper. Happy ships though.
I was told they had been built as heavy lift ships for the D Day landings, with peculiar high coamings. I think all of them had been in service with Everards previously. The heavy lift derricks were no longer there instead she had 2 derricks and three open winches to a hatch all set so that she used union purchase to load the hold, with the third winch used to wing out the logs via snatch blocks (Bull-wire), then in a very short time converted to one luffing derrick with steam guys for placing the deck cargo. I was informed early on by the head Compradore that it was not safe for officers to go on deck when the deck was loading and to leave it to the bosun !!
Sorry to go on a bit but it brought back so many memories of these China Sea characters
Mike

price
30th August 2007, 12:44
Hi Peter, I think you will find that the 'Ashbel Hubbard/ Solidarity, was an American Jeep, whereas the 'Seniority' of 1949 ex 'Aviswell', ex. 'Empire Boswell' built in 1942 by William Gray & co. was a West Hartlepool Jeep.
Cheers Bruce.

Peter4447
30th August 2007, 13:45
Thanks for that Bruce. I was very much working from memory regarding the 'Solidarity' which I think was lost on a voyage from Norway.

As far as I know Everards only owned the two Jeeps which is surprising when you consider the amount of ex-MOWT ships they had, so perhaps they did not suit their purpose.

Visited an elderly gent not so long back who has a nice model of her as the 'Ashbel Hubbard' which he sailed on as a Sparkie.

Peter4447(Thumb)

Trader
31st August 2007, 00:27
I sailed in the "Uskmouth" of Richard Jones of Newport in 1959. A good ship, chatty but happy as the saying goes. I joined her in Manchester where she had brought a cargo of timber from Archangel. We went back to Archangel and loaded for Garston, after that various cargoes of coal from S. Wales ports to Madeira, Genoa, Livorno, Civitavecchia. Usually phosphate back from Casablanca to Cork or Dublin and one time copper pyrites from Livorno to Barrow.
Her masts and samson posts were out of line, I was told that it was so U.Boats couldn't get a correct bearing on them, don't know how true that story was.
I have got some photos of her some where, will have to post them when I find them.
A regular cargo for her was Esparto grass from Tunisia and Algeria to Watchett in Somerset and Granton near Leith. Never carried it whilst I was in her though.
Trader.

notnila
31st August 2007, 23:58
I seem to remember that class of ship discharging esparto grass in Methil In the Fifties,mostly Swedish or Finnish flag.Dockers always referred to them(obviously wrongly)as West Hartlepool Jeeps.When I went to sea 1960 I always thought of them as such.Just goes to show how these things start.

sailingday
6th March 2008, 14:52
The dundrum bay, in which I sailed 51/52, was known as a jeep, now I know a little more about them. We sailed to amsterdam, through the Kiel canal, to poland, finland and sweden. Rough ship and a rough crew, mainly Ulstermen, who had numerous battles, even the skipper was replaced. We sheltered in jan 52 due to very bad weather, the flying enterprise, was in trouble at the same time. I remember the next trip was to Sydney(nova scotia), I thought they could do without me. I did meet one of the crew years later and they did obviously make it. We were in Belfast the night King George died, and I paid off afew days afterwards in Barry. What a leave mournful music on the wireless all day long

Bill Davies
20th April 2008, 09:39
Quote: Trader
A regular cargo for her was Esparto grass from Tunisia and Algeria to Watchett in Somerset and Granton near Leith. Never carried it whilst I was in her though.
Trader. Unquote

Does anyone know whether Watchet is still operating as a commercial port or not.

Bill

albert.s.i
20th April 2008, 13:11
hi lads i seem to remember a hartlepool jeep in blyth laid up in south harbour potato jones as he was known was captain just after the war there was talk about there wasnt enough money to pay the crews wages maybe someone else may have heard of this, i cannot think of the ships name, that thumb nail photo of the hartlepool jeep is so very much like the yankee jeep its unbelievable bruce c says there were 18 built i was on 5 of them which i named in a previous post my first the benjiman sherburn, laban howes, jesse g cotting, elkanah crowell,william homan, ive seen the asa eldridge, cheers albert .s.i

ROBERT HENDERSON
20th April 2008, 13:39
Everards did have a jeep called the ASHBEL HUBBARD,I cannot be sure if she was a Hartlepool or Canadian jeep. Capt Jimmy Wells was master, he then became Superintendent of Everards.(K) (K)

John Rogers
20th April 2008, 14:32
Also there were the small aircraft carriers called jeep carriers.

The Navy's escort carriers, called "Jeep carriers" or (by the press) "baby flat tops," never received the headlines or glory accorded their bigger sisters. Jeeps did the routine patrol work, scouting and escorting of convoys that their larger fleet-type counterparts couldn't do. Lightly armored, slower than the fleet carriers and with far less defensive armament and aircraft, they performed admirably when called upon.


Jeep carrier crews, who joked that "CVE" (the Navy's designation for this type of ship) really stood for "Combustible, Vulnerable and Expendable," became experts at hunting, finding and killing U-boats in both ocean theaters. Jeeps and their crews also provided fighter and close air support for amphibious landings, and served as aircraft transports as the tempo of the carrier war in the Pacific mounted to a crescendo.


The need for escort carriers came early in the war when German submarines and aircraft were taking a devastating toll on convoy shipping. The heaviest losses occurred far at sea where land-based aircraft couldn't operate. The Royal Navy had experimented with catapult-launched fighter planes from merchantmen; while this was somewhat successful in combating the U-boats, the number of planes that could be embarked was limited. Something else was needed, and in a hurry. Great Britain appealed to the United States for help.


No real specifications had been developed for escort carriers at this time, although the Navy had looked into converting merchant ships for this purpose before the war began. Thus, the quick solution was to build the early CVEs on merchant ships hulls.

I read somewhere that the word jeep was an abreviation of general Purpose which was shortend to GP ending in JEEP.

John.

trucker
5th May 2009, 18:38
Ah yes that's the ship type. Why did I always have the impression that they were American built? The word 'Jeep'? Our American 2nd mate? How many of them were built,does anybody know?

Many thanks for the picture. Brings back a memory from the dim past. (Applause)

just came across this thread earlier today.as on another thread started yesterday,someone asking about the william homan. as far as i know grays of hartlepool ,who also designed the vessels,built 48,then other british yards built 14.then canadian yards built 43,hence the different names.from ship,s monthly 1976.

Peter4447
5th May 2009, 19:24
Quote: Trader
A regular cargo for her was Esparto grass from Tunisia and Algeria to Watchett in Somerset and Granton near Leith. Never carried it whilst I was in her though.
Trader. Unquote

Does anyone know whether Watchet is still operating as a commercial port or not.

Bill

Hi Bill
Just spotted this one!
To the best of my knowledge Watchet ceased being a commercial port some years ago and is now a marina.
Peter4447

K urgess
5th May 2009, 20:37
William Homan was built in the States according to Miramar.
http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/ship/show/136367
Wm Gray built 24 "Scandinavian" types. the Empires Lorenzo, Ransom and Harcourt that became Barons Elcho, Elibank and Ailsa. Empire Caxton became the Letchworth.
Of the Empire Malta class (8 built by Gray) the Empire Newfoundland became the Ethel Everard.
All British standard ships were named "Empire xxxxxx"
Wm Gray built -
29 standard cargo steamships - all around 7000 gross tons
8 Empire Malta Class - engines aft, bridge forrard, 3539 gross tons
24 Scandinavian Type - around 2900 gross tons
8 colliers - around 2850 gross tons (+1 in 1946 - Empire Gower)

From "Empire Ships of World War II" by W. H. Mitchell & L. A. Sawyer, published by Sea Breezes in 1965.

Bruce Carson
5th May 2009, 20:58
The 'William Homan' was a Type N3-S-A1, the smallest US standard ship type built during WWII. The size permitted them to be built on the Great Lakes and the ships were universally known as 'Jeeps'.
As with the military automobiles and the General Motors diesel locomotives, the nickname probably derived from GP (General Purpose).
See posting #14 for a few more details and a picture of the type.

trucker
5th May 2009, 21:02
taking the figuers,from -Merchant navy nostalgia.Freedom freighters.Miramar, states yard ,sturgeon bay ,which i think is canada.

Bruce Carson
5th May 2009, 21:16
Trucker, Sturgeon Bay is in Door County, Wisconsin, USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon_Bay,_Wisconsin

trucker
5th May 2009, 21:17
Trucker, Sturgeon Bay is in Door County, Wisconsin, USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon_Bay,_Wisconsin

apologies ,just checked,(Thumb) just the numbers to sort out now.maybe freedom freighter,s are classing the ships,as being built in canada,as they were built on the lakes.

tiachapman
5th May 2009, 21:19
empire caicos 1945 bulit hartlepool 1950 became sugar transporter ,london /west indies cement clinker out bulk sugar back ,to silvertown plastow wharf done 7 months on her became pattawilya 1957 1962 became clovelly then ??? chippy

trucker
6th May 2009, 19:33
so not to get bogged down in technicalities.the WEST HARTLEPOOL JEEP ,was a three island,scandinavian type timber ,cargo ship.of aprox.4,700.tn.that was what, basically i was wanting to know.

K urgess
6th May 2009, 19:38
Could possibly be but it may have applied to all wartime built "utility" vessels produced by Grays.
I seem to remember it applying more to the Malta Class but I'm not an expert and never sailed on one.
Cheers
Kris

trucker
6th May 2009, 19:44
Could possibly be but it may have applied to all wartime built "utility" vessels produced by Grays.
I seem to remember it applying more to the Malta Class but I'm not an expert and never sailed on one.
Cheers
Kris

cheers (Thumb)

Somerton
8th May 2010, 16:07
The Head Line of Belfast had 3 Jeeps, the Dunmore Head, Kinsale Head, & Malin Head. Glens of Glasgow had the Fidra, Orsa, & Winga, all Jeeps. Metcalfes had the Andrew M & Charles M. Coast Line had one called the Damara. These were all American built.

Alex C.

vindi1954
3rd February 2013, 18:08
This thread seems to be pretty old so maybe no further interest, I was on the GTV Goodwood, a Hartlepool Jeep in 1960, she had been fitted with the first Gas Turbine engine, as a trial by Smiths dock of Middlebrough, we loaded sunphur at Antwerp for Barrow in Furness.

Joe Whelan
29th July 2013, 09:05
Addition to an old thread. I sailed in two jeeps as 3rd engineer during 1951/1952. The s.s Angusloch ex Rodney Baxter and s.s Anguslake ex Samuel Very. Hell ships.

Binnacle
29th July 2013, 11:23
I only sailed on one West Hartlepool "Jeep" the Struan ex Empire Patriot, 2,893 gt. built by W. Gray, Hartlepool 1942. Only the smaller Empire ships of this type were referred to as Jeeps. The larger 7000t Empire ships built in Hartlepool were never referred to as Jeeps. My memory may be playing tricks but I seem to think the chart and radio rooms were a deck below wheelhouse. Ballast trip Hartlepool/St John NB with 100 odd ton **** on after deck for deeper trim. Pit props back to Hartlepool. Coal from Tyne to Palermo, discharged into donkey carts. Bone/Leith esparto grass, deck cargo up to wheelhouse window. Rope ladder down to fo'c'sle head. Coal burner. One of my brothers sailed on the William Brewster, a US built "Jeep". I gathered from him they were much superior to the Hartlepool built Jeeps.

**** big brother doesn't like sl*g type ballast.

ben27
30th July 2013, 01:52
good day john rogers,sm,20th.april.2008.23:32.(p27)re:west harlepool jeeps.i have been reading this old thread with interest,first the jeep to me was that famous all round 4weel drive the u,s.a army used,i was on carriers during ww2,they never used the word jeep to describe them,it was either minni.woolworth.and other names,but I never heard the name jeep applied to the ships.they did a great job for the purpose they were built for,and got me home,thanks for posting,ben27.