Manxman

oglebilluk
18th October 2006, 09:22
Two items of news. The long awaited review meeting with Merseyside's great and good is now scheduled for early November.

Also Sea Breezes are to publish (in two parts) the story of the ship and the project to date. The first going on sale next week, 23 October

Bill

oglebilluk
5th January 2007, 13:37
Much has happened in recent weeks and an update is now appropriate.

One of the key outcomes of the review meeting held in Liverpool during November was the statement from NW Regional Development Agency that, before embarking on any major funding proposal, it would be necessary to carry out an independent Sustainability Study into the long term financial viability of the project; which would confirm our existing projections.

The Trust made application to NWDA for financial backing of this study and, I’m delighted to advise, the bid was accepted.

Tenders have been invited from a wide range of consultancy organisations and the timetable requires submissions to be received by 12 January, an interim report by 16 February and a final report by 23 February.

The project is “coming back to life”, but we also recognise that time is not on our side and continue in the hope that we can pre-empt any dramatic action by the present owners of Manxman

Bill

Santos
5th January 2007, 20:13
Very good news indeed Bill.

Lets hope that 2007 will prove to be Manxmans' year. I eagerly look forward to the results as I expect you do too.

She would be a crowd puller without a doubt ( I will be first in the queue )and something that the River Mersey needs to remind people of its history before it is all long forgotton thanks to ( spit ) Property Developers.

Chris.

Hawkeye
5th January 2007, 23:09
Lets hope she dosen't go the same way as the Duke in North Wales. I have heard somewhere that she is to be broken up on site, but I can't remember where I heard it.

nhp651
10th January 2007, 17:14
on this very site about three weeks ago,hawkeye.and although sad news,it doesn't supprise me one bit.

oglebilluk
4th March 2007, 08:32
To let you know that the project is very much alive. Ship is now back in the Pallion undercover dry dock so is hopefully safe from further vandals and the weather. Scrapping her in the yard is now considered to be an option, but there is a lot of beaurocracy for the owners to deal with before that can happen.

More positively the interim consultants report on sustainability has been presented and shows that our original estimates were pretty accurate. The bottom line is that, if berthed at Birkenhead, a restored Manxman could be the focus of a successfull business which generated sufficient profit to fund ongoing maintenance and future development. The only proviso being that all purchase and restoration costs would need to be separately funded.

So it's onwards and, hopefully, upwards

Bill

oglebilluk
21st May 2007, 15:06
The Manxman project is still very much alive, but decisions must be made in the next weeks!

Funding awarded earlier this year by the North West Regional Development Agency permitted consultancy work which lead to some key independent statements.
1) Once restored, a static Manxman based at Birkenhead would be a viable and sustainable business
2) the core restoration costs are commercially sound
3) a recent hull survey has provided updated costs which allow for recent damage and deterioration.

The Trust is now in a position to properly address all of the questions raised by the Steering Group, and the above reports have been issued to members (and other possible funders) for their urgent consideration and action. In addition the Trust has been in direct contact with the owners, in Athens, and a short term arrangement is in place.
In support of this the Trust has set up a Public Meeting which will be Chaired by Professor Peter Toyne, former Vice Chancellor of Liverpool John Moores University; this will take place in Room 126 at India Buildings, Water Street, Liverpool on Wednesday 6th June, 2007, commencing at 5.15 for 5.30 pm

Bill Ogle

vchiu
28th June 2007, 17:05
Dear Bill,

1) Does your trust provide modellers with the Manxman's drawings (in 1/96 or 1/48) ? I would be very keen to purchase some. This could be a (modest) source of financial support for the Trust. If you don't have the structure to handle this trade, one solution is to have Model boats or Marine modelling sell the plans for you and give you royalties on the accrued sales.

2) Related to this, I am considering offering to the public a ready made mode of the Manxman through a friend who owns a boat model workshop. The detail level of the model would obviously depends upon the intended Public price. Model would be fully built, painted to its true colors and ready for display and /or R/C integration. Scale probably 1/96. The issue is that understandably, creating the first few samples need to put some money (10 times the price of the mass production model)

The key idea is that if the trust is willing to support us in this step, we would give them a certain amount of money (say 10£) for each sold model.

3) I should however say 3 unpleasant things :
A) Nothing can tell us how successful such a model could be , UK being the primary intended market. At best 100 models could find an owner over a certain period of time (RRP = 400-800£ depending on detail level +VAT.). at worst, maybe less than 10.

B) The question mark of the UK distribution is raised

C) This is a medium term project : If go ahead, first models may strike the market in about 18 months. and many "if" to overcome.

If you believe this project to be of any interest at this stage, I would need your support in helping me get the ships drawings and many good pictures of every outside part of the ship in order to assess the model development costs.

4) in Summary, this contribution to your trust won't certainly match even a fraction of your needs, but I wish to raise people awareness of the Manxman and all the work of the people like yourself who tiredlessly struggle to save Britain's beautiful craftmanship from oblivion.

Pls don't hesitate to PM me should you want to discuss more into details

All the best to you and your endeavours

passenger john
18th October 2007, 09:44
Just wondering whether there is any further news on the Manxman have not heard anything for a while. Thanks

passenger john
23rd January 2008, 11:09
Just touching base as to further news of progress with the preservation of the Manxman.

passenger john
1st February 2008, 10:14
Does anyone know what has happened to the Manxman - even the wbb page now seems to have dissapeared.

Manxships
26th April 2008, 02:10
The Manxman project ended a few months ago due to lack of funds. The former members are supporting a project for preservation in America instead, although in a different manner.

http://www.manxman.xtreemhost.com/news/news.htm

oglebilluk
27th April 2008, 08:12
The Manxman project ended a few months ago due to lack of funds. The former members are supporting a project for preservation in America instead, although in a different manner.

http://www.manxman.xtreemhost.com/news/news.htm

The fact is that the Manxman project is being wound up because we were unable to secure arrangements for a long term berth on Merseyside; without that support from Peel Holdings (owners of the dock estates) or the local councils then no major funding could be made available.
Also re the US interest, as a charitable trust we cannot formally participate.

vchiu
4th May 2008, 05:27
Hello Bill

I am flabagasted by learning that Local authorities won't even move a finger to allow this endeavour. Of course, I prefer the Manxman to be saved in US rather than scrapped.

I wish to sincerely thank you for all the energy you and other enthusiasts put into saving this piece of engineering. Your really worked out to have a dream of the best of Britain come true. I really wish I could do something on my side.

The US are very strong in preservation. For instance They are keeping their remaining four battleships with care and respect, whereas we were so hasty to have all ours disappear.

oglebilluk
4th May 2008, 07:33
Hello Bill

I am flabagasted by learning that Local authorities won't even move a finger to allow this endeavour. Of course, I prefer the Manxman to be saved in US rather than scrapped.

I wish to sincerely thank you for all the energy you and other enthusiasts put into saving this piece of engineering. Your really worked out to have a dream of the best of Britain come true. I really wish I could do something on my side.

The US are very strong in preservation. For instance They are keeping their remaining four battleships with care and respect, whereas we were so hasty to have all ours disappear.

Thanks for your kind comments.
Unbelievingly I still cannot say what the outcome will be. The US interest doesn't seem to have progressed, nor has dismantling her started as yet.
Will post to the site when one does take place.

vchiu
5th May 2008, 03:40
Hello Bill

Do you know if someone could tour the ship and take as many good detail pictures of her. As I wish to make a model of her I would personally need deck, superstructure, funnel, lifeboats, weelhouse pics. There are some on your web site already, but they don't completely cover all the ship and they don't seem to be high resolution.

We are seeing an endangered species disappearing right in front of our eyes, and I fear that in a too close future, pictures will be our only remaining legacy. For this reason, I thought it would be necessary to make a high resolution photographic collection of her with a good DSLR.

I would be grateful if you could help me pass the word through other fellow members /Ship enthusiast asking for a volunteer. I would be too happy to oblige but my financial situation prevents me from flying to UK.

I could post a message on shipspotting.com , but I don't know if access to the ship is restricted and would need appointment /authorisation

Thank you

Valery

oglebilluk
6th May 2008, 08:33
Hello Bill

Do you know if someone could tour the ship and take as many good detail pictures of her. As I wish to make a model of her I would personally need deck, superstructure, funnel, lifeboats, weelhouse pics. There are some on your web site already, but they don't completely cover all the ship and they don't seem to be high resolution.

We are seeing an endangered species disappearing right in front of our eyes, and I fear that in a too close future, pictures will be our only remaining legacy. For this reason, I thought it would be necessary to make a high resolution photographic collection of her with a good DSLR.

I would be grateful if you could help me pass the word through other fellow members /Ship enthusiast asking for a volunteer. I would be too happy to oblige but my financial situation prevents me from flying to UK.

I could post a message on shipspotting.com , but I don't know if access to the ship is restricted and would need appointment /authorisation

Thank you

Valery

Valery
We did have such a collection taken two years ago, but they are held by the Liverpool Daily Post who will not release them to us. Similarly BBC filmed on board last year for the programme Inside Out (which is now on Youtube); however only 7 minutes from several hours of filming was broadcast. The BBC said they'd provide us with a copy of all they had taken, but didn't and do not reply to requests

Access to the ship is very restricted but I have been advised that we could make a final visit and would repeat the exercise

I do have scans of some original drawings if your are interested, the rigging plan and general arrangements of each of the decks

With thanks for your comments and interest

Bill

vchiu
7th May 2008, 05:55
Dear Bill
yes I am definitely interested by scans of the original drawings.
And if you can make a final tour, I guess this won't be a very happy moment but it will leave us with pictures that will become invaluable when she is not around anymore.

Thank you very much indeed

Valery

passenger john
5th December 2008, 11:51
Does anyone know what finally happend to the Manxman is it still in Sunderland or did it go to the breakers.

Pat McCardle
5th December 2008, 12:59
Still under cover in the Pallion yard(Thumb)

passenger john
9th December 2008, 09:36
Pat thanks for that, but is there any clue to what its future is.

oglebilluk
10th December 2008, 08:55
Yes, she's still in the covered dry dock at Pallion, but the future of the US based bid is now unclear.
It may be that an alternative to scrapping is now available, but I have no confirmation
The Manxman Trust is in the throes of winding up and will shortly announce which charity will receive its residual funds. You will recall that the provisional offer of a berth at Birkenhead was withdrawn by Peel Holdings when they took over the Mersey Docks Company, in spite of rumours that position is unchanged.
It has to be recognised that the restoration costs continue to climb, in spite of significant reductions in steel pricing, because her condition continues to deteriorate. In the present climate the chance of raising in excess of 7.5m is not good.
The Trust is planning to advise interested groups of the final outcome when that is known, but are not in favour of responding to rumours.
Sorry that the information is still so vague

Bill

hsc viking
29th December 2008, 09:34
Hello Bill would it be possible for me to come and take some pictures of the Manxman in Sunderland. Thanks

oglebilluk
30th December 2008, 07:41
Hello

The Trust doesn't actually own the ship and I know that the dry dock owners at Sunderland do not now allow visitors. In fact there is no gangway fitted and nobody goes on board.

We are having major problems with our web site at present but do intend to load more pictures

As an alternative if the visit youtube and search on Manxman you will find several videos of her including last years BBC TV broadcast

Bill

oglebilluk
3rd January 2009, 09:14
Recently there has been a spate of rumours saying that Peel Holdings are now interested in making provision for Manxman at Birkenhead.
As part of the winding up process the Manxman Steamship Company has written to ask Peel Holdings if their position has changed. The very clear reply states that “their position is unchanged”. i.e. “Manxman is inappropriate”.

Our web site at www.ssmanxman.co.uk is now reactivated and we apologise for being “off line” for so long, as well as the now abbreviated format.

We will however seek to provide relevant information regarding the winding up, as well as the ultimate fate of Manxman.

Bill Ogle Manxman Steamship Company

SCDA
3rd January 2009, 11:29
The following is an extract of an article published in the Sunderland Echo on 15th December, 2008:

Pallion Engineering has also recently been licensed to scrap ships and is in talks over several contracts.

"We got that licence a month ago, so there is a lot of interest there," said Mr Dickinson.

"You have always had to scrap ships and it has to be done properly – there is a lot of asbestos on some of these older ships."

No prizes for guessing the first ship likely to be broken up!!

hsc viking
22nd March 2009, 20:05
Any more news on her present condition?

Pat McCardle
22nd March 2009, 21:21
As far as I am aware, she is still laid up under cover of the yard.

Santos
22nd March 2009, 22:00
I will probably get shot to pieces for this suggestion, (EEK) however, deep breath, I read in todays Sunday Express that plans to bring HMS Whimbrel home from Egypt have been abandoned for good. She apparantly had a berth allocated for her in Canning Dock, Liverpool.

Now here is the suggestion - if the Manxman is still available, could the Charity set up for HMS Whimbrel perhaps join up with the Manxman SS Co and with the monies so far collected pool their funds towards saving the Manxman.

I know HMS Whimbrel was R.N. and Manxman is M.N. but, had it been vice versa I would not mind my money going to save HMS Whimbrel, at least we could perhaps save one ship after all.

Tin Hat on and awaiting incoming (Jester)

Chris.

billyboy
23rd March 2009, 00:46
Seems a good logical idea to me Santos. Lets hope someone picks up on it eh!

bazzoh
23rd March 2009, 22:41
I always thought a good idea would have been to berth the Whimbrel near to the U-boat - hunter and hunted so to speak! I think it's absolutley disgusting that a city built on its maritime history, should now choose to ignore it!
Barry

Santos
23rd March 2009, 23:58
I agree Barry, a great idea, but you try putting that to the present hierarchy they would have a fit, if its not an appartment then forget it - bitter I'll say I am - fat wallets is the only outcome wanted on Merseyside now I am afraid - b-gger the history.

Chris.

oglebilluk
24th March 2009, 09:14
Unfortunately the basic problem with the Manxman project is that the provisional agreement to a berth (by MDHC) was withdrawn by Peel Holdings when they took control.
Both Liverpool and Wirral Councils, Leaders and Senior Officers in both cases, made very clear to the Trust that they could not renegotiate on the position taken by Peel, presumably because of the larger financial implications.
With no berth then there can be no public funds and that is why the Manxman project cannot proceed.
In December 2008, Peel confirmed that their position is unchanged.
The American interest is not being developed, the credit crunch hasn't helped.
Manxman's condition continues to deteriorate such that all the shell plating would now need to be replaced, and a vertical crack in the hull (adjacent to the boiler room) is worsening significantly
Her owners recently asked interested parties if they were in a position to proceed, and are now re-examining the costs of dismantling in-situ
The Trust is proceeding with the winding up process. Shortly we will create a Yahoo Group which will contain many photos at different stages of her life, copies of the reports commissioned by the Trust, various drawings of the ship and much more interesting information. This will become a permanent record and open to public access.
We are obviously disappointed that the Whimbrel project has also foundered, although for different reasons, and so Merseyside will not be able to celebrate its maritime heritage by having an appropriate sea-going ship - whilst being pleased at the success being shown by the 3 tugs now to be seen as well as Edmund Gardner and others
We have searched for a better outcome, but there really isn't one; meanwhile the Trust remains committed to keeping all our supporters advised, but as of now very little is happening
Bill

Pat McCardle
24th March 2009, 09:37
Take a look at how she is looking at

http://www.this-is-sunderland.co.uk/Shipyards/Shipyards.html

site belongs to Andy Martin

DavidsOffice
8th April 2009, 16:40
Whilst acknowledging that Manxman is probably too far gone to be saved, what are the reasons for the decision? Is it still the lack of berth, as suggested on the website, or is it technically or financially impossible?
Is there any date suggested for the cutter's torch?

oglebilluk
9th April 2009, 08:24
The reason is purely lack of a berth. The provisional arrangement with Mersey Docks Company was withdrawn and without that the key funders (NWDA and HLF) made clear they could advance no more money.We were unable to find a suitable alternative.

The technical issues could all be dealt with and were incorporated into the independently audited cost estimates. An extensive and independent marketing survey confirmed that she would pay her way as the envisaged static operation (at Tower Quays, Birkenhead) providing the initial restoration costs could be met.

I hope this clarifies the position

Bill

oglebilluk
9th April 2009, 08:25
The is no change to report regarding the ship herself, but the web site used by the Trust at www.ssmanxman.co.uk will shortly cease to function because it cannot be supported through and beyond the winding up process.
A free to join Yahoo Group has been set up which will continue to be the voice of the Trust and its Friends. In addition it ultimately will hold the main archives of the company, whilst the original documentation will be held by Merseyside Maritime Museum.
If you search Yahoo Groups for ssmanxman, and then follow the instructions to join you can have permanent access and continue to follow the story

Bill

DavidsOffice
9th April 2009, 10:28
Drifting the thread slightly, I note the same issues with HMS Plymouth...no suitable berths. Is there no where in the UK where berthing space can be made available for preserved ships? What about docks, like Preston, that are no longer used commercially?

oglebilluk
24th June 2009, 07:45
There is still nothing to report regarding the fate of Manxman.

However the free ahoo Group now contains much additional information, mainly drawings.

Please join at ssmanxman on Yahoo Groups. If you have problems accessing it please send me a PM and I will send a shortcut

Bill

oglebilluk
12th September 2009, 08:32
Manxman scale model

Members might be interested to know that, as part of winding up the Charity, our 4 foot, display quality, scale model of Manxman is for sale by auction. Details are shown at www.bonhams.com where you should item search on manxman.

Bill

hsc viking
17th November 2009, 17:15
Has there been anymore news on the project. Is she still being preserved or has she come to the end of the road?

oglebilluk
18th November 2009, 08:07
The only news about the project is that we are continuing towards winding up. The web site licence has not been renewed so it is now off-line, and replaced with a free-to-join Yahoo Group called ssmanxman. Please join and see that much more of the archive material has been made available, for free. (if you have any problems in accessing/ finding the group please send me a PM and I'll provide a short cut route)
With regard to the ship herself. She is still in the covered dry dock at Sunderland. We presume that eventually she will be dismantled in-situ but, with the high costs for asbestos removal, we expect nothing will be done until scrap prices improve. We also presume that her removal to say Hartlepool for scrapping is unlikely because again the is a high cost for hull repair and preparation work.

If we learn of any change I will provide an update

Bill

DavidsOffice
18th November 2009, 11:26
I did hear a rumour some time ago that SCARF were interested in taking Manxman to make an attraction alongside City of Adelaide. Presumably their priority is the clipper so we'll have to wait for the outcome of that.

oglebilluk
4th December 2009, 09:50
Unfortunately there is little progress to report. We are actively seeking to finalise disposal of the remaining assets as a prelude to winding up the Trust and the Company. The detailed scale model of Manxman is for sale in the New Year at www.bonhams.com. Of course residual monies will be distributed to appropriate charities as previously advised, and the Trustees intend that a final communication be sent to Friends and supporters once the picture is clear. The trading company Steamship Enterprises is now wound up.
With regard to Manxman herself; she still lies in the covered dry dock at Sunderland and sadly continues to deteriorate. There have been regular rumours that a new bid is imminent but clearly the project is becoming increasingly expensive and is approaching the unrealistic.

Bill

S. Toth
19th February 2010, 23:40
is there any new news on the manxman?

Burned Toast
21st February 2010, 11:37
Still undercover at Pallion, Sunderland.

Ray

northsands
21st February 2010, 15:40
A recent picture:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/interzone-inc/4193485250/in/set-72157612448513294/

S. Toth
24th February 2010, 22:43
does anyone know if she will be restored, or if there is a active preservation campaign that is currently ongoing?

oglebilluk
25th February 2010, 08:51
Sadly I have to say that there is no ongoing preservation campaign. The two I am aware of were:
- firstly an American organisation which sought her rebuild as a "high end" cruise facility
- secondly the Manxman Steamship Company, which I chair. As reported in earlier postings we are now having to wind up the Trust because cancellation of the only suitable berth means that we have no chance of accessing the necessary public funds.

Try Google for national historic ships and search their register for Manxman. Also the records of the Trust are now freely available at a Yahoo Group called ssmanxman (if you have problems finding it pl send me a PM and I'll send an invitation)

Bill

marjack126
1st March 2010, 16:33
Very sad news indeed Bill. It must be heartbreaking.


Martin Slater
Secretary HMS Plymouth Association

S. Toth
10th March 2010, 00:24
so if both trust are now down, i know it looks slim but are there still efforts to save her?

oglebilluk
10th March 2010, 07:36
Basically no I have to say. Also her condition continues to deteriorate and over recent years her restoration costs were increasing by about 1m per year over and above inflation - so this is another reason working against her.

Bill

S. Toth
11th March 2010, 01:26
such a shame she is such a beauty, however in the end I guess its not over till the torch hits her, hopefully something good will come around and get her.

Best Regards; Steve

Rafal Zahorski
28th March 2010, 00:56
Hello everybody,

We were on Manxman two days ago. We mean: Kamil and myself.

I can say only that as far as I have a knowledge about restoration of vessels based on our Old Lady Bembridge there is no chance for Manxman.

Who thinks that it is possible to save her is a dreamer. Without public money or support of anybody with huge money it is no chance to save her. I visited whole vessel from decks till her bilges - soon we will publish all pictures ( several hundreds) what we made together with my colleague Kamil. Than I will let you know here. We made a beautiful pictures.

A deadline is this June or July.

The only reason of her existence is asbestos - nothing more. As far as I heard to remove all asbestos from her is a huge cost - ca GBP 300 000. So I can ensure all of you - who wants to have that vessel free of charge - he can do it.

First of all her hull have a lot of holes and fractures. Next story - please remember that when she was built than steel was made from a scrub received from old war ships - some sunken and lifted or just sent as a vessels completed their service. That time there were a mountains of old hulls to be broken.

So I was touching a hull of Manxman and several months ago I tough a hull of our Bembridge. The quality of steel on both vessels is like two different worlds. Bembridge was on dry dock in 1970 so she was not painted or cleaned on her bottom from 40 years!!! Her bottom was only covered by many surfaced of paint and many "green" algae. Manxman hull is very rusty - it is a structural many layers deep rust. This steel is like sponge splitting on many thick layers of rust. That is a main reason that her hull is in so bad condition. Next story she is standing on many concrete blocks which are like teeth - many of them are pushed inside her hull.

Manxman is beautiful and well finished and preserved inside. Really!. Deck are Ok too they are perfect.

I can only tell here - restoration costs will be min GBP 10 000 000 and her value after restoration will not extend GBP 1 000 000 max!!!

So please show me a Bank or any private investor who will finance it.

So ... we must be prudent - only some rich Business guy can effort it.

I will give everything to save her but ... one story is to have such a huge money and from other story to get it back from such an investment.

Sorry ... it is to late for her..

Best greeting Rafal

oglebilluk
28th March 2010, 08:49
Hello Rafel
Thank you very much for this clear, concise and accurate description of Manxman.
Yes I am a member of the Trust which sought her restoration and some 4 years ago we estimated 7.5 million for her restoration, of which 300,000 was for the asbestos removal; so 10 million now is fair. Also at the survey conducted then we established that 80% of the shell plating required replacement, but also much of the tank tops and db framing. We always stated that only public funds could pay for such a restoration, thereafter and in the right location she could have paid her way
We began our project in 2002 and since that time her condition has slowly deteriorated
Her current condition is now that her hull would almost need re-building before she could even be towed to sea and, sadly, I have to agree with you it is now too late and I suspect only the low residual value is preventing any action.

Bill

Rafal Zahorski
28th March 2010, 23:58
Dear Bill,

I have only one and good idea concerning Manxman. There are many not used docks in UK. So it will be a perfect idea to place her in such a dock. Than to clean her hull and to paint by bitumens and than just close such a dock by certain ceiling or floor imitating a water. Than such a restoration will have a sense and it will cost less like 2 max 3 m GPB. Visitors can than admire her bow & stern rudder or nice propellers.

It will be nice to make a roof over there - simple roof from polycarbonate.

This is a great idea - but please hurry up!!!

She is so beautiful that in my opinion is worth to save.

Greeting Rafal

oglebilluk
29th March 2010, 07:53
Dear Rafel

Yes I agree with the idea to do what is possible but unfortunately much work would need to be done before she could leave Sunderland. All the hull repairs, closing all outlets, removing asbestos and contaminated water/ oil (the fuel bunkers are full of oily water) for a start.
Yes here in Liverpool we have many empty docks, but the owners are removing the ships that we do have and they think that Manxman (although she was built here and sailed from here) is "not appropriate". In smaller ports she would not attract sufficient visitor numbers.
She should be saved, but the costs are now too great, and the global financial picture doesn't help.
There could be a commercial role for a fully restored Manxman, perhaps diesel electric powered with pods replacing propellors and rudder together with bow steering - but otherwise looking like Manxman. She would then be more economic in operation and more manoeverable. Those changes would release internal space permitting accomodation for say 30 passengers for expensive cruising operations. She could be marketed as the mini Cunarder. But it's a pipe dream I'm afraid.

Bill

Rafal Zahorski
2nd April 2010, 05:57
Yes ...money is always the biggest problem. Leaking hull - not so much. There are not so many places to be repaired. But asbestos it is a problem - huge problem and let say the true - main problem in any her project.

One sure I am completely sure - there is 100% that nobody will place her again in using as any working vessel. Her hull is to weak to be used as working vessel. Floating maybe but I am doubting too. Placing her in any dock and even cover her hull by bitumen and to leave only open bow and stern - it will be a good idea.

On the beginning it can be only fast reparations of existing holes and removing of asbestos.

I know that this cost is ca EUR 300 000 but - where it is - I was looking very carefully inside and I could not see it.

There is really so much of it inside or it is only a story to get money from the owners?

Maybe will be a good idea to speak with guys who must pay now for her breaking and removal of asbestos - maybe they will help you in financial way. Instead to pay so big money both parties can save - restoration team will pay more for a vessel and they will spend less. You know what I mean.

Anyway her clock is now starting to ring her last hours.

Best greeting from Bembridge deck

Rafal

Santos
2nd April 2010, 19:16
Seen on Facebook today and dated 25-03-10, the following :-

I work for Pallion Engineering Ltd where the SS Manxman is situated. I am here to inform you that the Manxman will be regrettably dismantled very soon, however we would like to give Manxman enthusiasts the opportunity of purchasing some of the membrobilia from onboard. There are several great pieces including the logo ...badGe, the name, lifeboats adn davits, engine compartment, priginal ship panelling, wood decking, handrails, wheel house, original portholes and some windows, steering gear, props, anchors, chain and many more. Anyone interested in making Pallion Engineering Ltd an offer please email office@ssa.org.uk or telephone 0191 5640404 and speak to Julie Robson.IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO VISIT THE MANXMAN AND POSSIBLY GO ONBOARD THE MANXMAN THIS MAY BE POSSIBLE BUT PLEASE WAIT FOR FURTHER IMFORMATION

Looks very much like the end is very near - well property developers I hope you are satisfied - another piece of maritime history gone.(Cloud)

Chris.

Rambo
3rd April 2010, 08:52
I was fortunate to have a tour around the Manxman at the Pallion drydock a couple of weeks ago but didn't get onboard.

Here is the collection http://shipcanal.fotopic.net/c1823722.html

Look forward to seeing your pics Rafal.

John.

hsc viking
3rd April 2010, 21:50
Great photos John thanks for letting us have a look.

The scrapping of the Manxman will be regretted in around 20 years time. She should not be allowed to be scrapped, and shouldn't have been allowed to get in such a run down condition in the first place. However we have to thank the Manxman Steamship Company for their efforts to save her and Pallion for the work they have done and their support.

Such a shame for a vessel like her to go as I believe she has more heritage significance than the Royal Iris.

Once again thanks for sharing your photos.

cueball44
3rd April 2010, 21:52
I was fortunate to have a tour around the Manxman at the Pallion drydock a couple of weeks ago but didn't get onboard.

Here is the collection http://shipcanal.fotopic.net/c1823722.html

Look forward to seeing your pics Rafal.

John.

hi all, i remember the 'MANXMAN' being in the dry dock at the mouth of the river hull on the river 'HUMBER',opened as a nightclub but had to close because of late night licence laws, caused quiet a stir with hull city clubbers,because they wer'nt prepared to go to a club which had to close at '2am, it was its downfall ,it had to have part of its bow cut away has it was to long for the dock,looked a bit silly with the top part of the bow sticking through a gap in the dockyard wall they created, stupid licence laws cost 'HULL CITY' a great deal of lost revenue! not to mention a lovely ship\club that would have been well looked after if allowed to thrive, winston hawker.

Lancastrian
4th April 2010, 07:57
Perhaps the scrapyard will be a more dignified end than that.

cueball44
4th April 2010, 09:03
Perhaps the scrapyard will be a more dignified end than that.

well what would you suggest was a 'DIGNIFIED END' appart from the scrapyard!, there are lots of ships converted into 'nightclubs or floating hotels', at least it would'nt be in the state its in now with souvenir hunters snatching lumps off it!!, winston hawker 'yorkshireman'.(Cloud)

captain61
7th April 2010, 10:06
She would have been an ideal visitor atraction at Liverpool Maritime Museum But o I FORGOT THEY DONT WANT ANYTHING MARITIME
Just look at Plymouth & Bronnington sat on the other side

Winston The State of her now is nothing to do with souvenir hunters it was the thieving B@*"#@ds who wanted the copper and brass for Cash

cueball44
7th April 2010, 13:41
She would have been an ideal visitor atraction at Liverpool Maritime Museum But o I FORGOT THEY DONT WANT ANYTHING MARITIME
Just look at Plymouth & Bronnington sat on the other side

Winston The State of her now is nothing to do with souvenir hunters it was the thieving B@*"#@ds who wanted the copper and brass for Cash

ah well,suppose its the scrapyard then,if the tatters have swooped on her its no use trying to put her on show,i hope someone managed to save the bell and builders nameplate or possibly a couple of lifebouy's with the name intact,could'nt they put those on show at where she originated?, winston hawker 'old AB'.(==D)

S. Toth
8th April 2010, 11:01
Sad news. Sadly the manxman will be dismantled shortly(Sad).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/8608704.stm

oglebilluk
9th April 2010, 15:33
You will be aware of the many rumours surrounding the fate of Manxman and, sadly
yet inevitably, I can now advise that the plans for her dismantling are
proceeding. In fact contracts have been signed for the initial phases. I'm sure
most of you will realise that her condition continues to deteriorate and that
restoration costs are escalating rapidly.
I can also confirm that Pallion Engineering at Sunderland, as agents for her
owners, would like to give Manxman enthusiasts and the wider community the
opportunity of purchasing some of the memorabilia onboard. In fact this process
has already started. If you are interested, and photos on our Yahoo Group ssmanxman and elsewhere give an indication of what may be available, please enquire by email to
office@ssa.org.uk or telephone 0191 5640404 and speak to Julie Robson.
So far as the Trust is concerned we can now move into the next stages of the
winding up process as required by the Charity Commission, and will advise you
when the final position is known both with regard to the amount of residual
funds, and distribution.
If you have any other queries please pm to me.
Regards

Bill Ogle

Degzie
16th April 2010, 09:54
Is their a glimmer of hope for the old lady?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8623653.stm

captain61
16th April 2010, 13:51
Wish they would make there mind up

S. Toth
16th April 2010, 22:44
I also wish they would make up there minds for the better, but this is a very good sign. At least theres still hope,

oglebilluk
19th April 2010, 15:13
With so many recent rumours and media reports we needed to check on the current situation at the two key locations:

1. Pallion Engineering at Sunderland have confirmed that a contract is in place for the first stages of dismantling, scheduled to start in a few weeks. They have also publicised that, at the appropriate time, a procedure will be made available allowing the purchase of certain specified items.

2. Meanwhile Peel Developments have confirmed (16 April, 2010) that the position remains the same as stated in their previous correspondence. Namely that Manxman is considered inappropriate for Birkenhead Docks.

Sadly this really emphasises what we already knew and, based on this current information, the Trustees must now consider making the decision to move into the irreversible phase of winding up. Obviously we had always hoped that the situation could change for the better, but no longer see that as likely to happen.

Bill Ogle, Manxman Steamship Company

hsc viking
8th May 2010, 20:28
There is now an online petition to save the Manxman. I know its unlikely to happen but lets all give it one last try.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ssmanxman/

hsc viking
12th May 2010, 20:40
Would a few more please sign as this may make a difference. Doubtful but just a minute will help the last attempt to save her.

hsc viking
10th June 2010, 21:47
What's the latest on her?

sam2182sw
12th June 2010, 15:59
Scrap her sam

oglebilluk
13th June 2010, 08:55
We were able to visit Manxman recently, after a gap of almost 2 years. Sadly I have to say that her continued deterioration is even worse than expected. Perhaps the most noticeable being that the vertical crack in the hull is now very clear to see, and has opened to about 3 5 cms, that she continues to settle on some of the blocks in the stern section and that rust holes the size of a football have now broken through as high as the shelter deck.
Removal of the asbestos is confirmed to begin 14th June, with a planned timescale of 18 weeks. However it would be very optimistic to separate this from the dismantling because:

1. Most asbestos is in the engine and boiler rooms. Access to neither is currently simple because of conversions made to the accommodation layout. They may well need to cut a large access hole through the three main decks to allow crane access through the former location of the engine room skylight, alternatively a fork lift sized hole in the side and a ramp may be used
2. Asbestos also exists throughout the accommodation as either lagging to pipe work or insulation behind panelling. Again much could be damaged.
3. Removal of asbestos is a major cost and our final estimate was over 300,000 (although we had specified that it be dome sympathetically to minimise subsequent re-instatement costs).

Now the owners will need to recoup their expenditure by selling major items at an early stage; in fact they hope to remove masts, lift the deck planking and be ready for a quick start. They have been trying to find a buyer for Manxman since 1997, and do not want further delays!

There are many photos and additional information at Yahoo Group ssmanxman, please join and have a look - it is free

Bill Ogle

hsc viking
14th June 2010, 21:10
Thanks for informing us Bill. Would you let us know when items are available for purchase.

Thanks

ds247
15th June 2010, 13:32
What lessons can be learnt for the next group wanting to save a ship?
There are a few vessels in dire need and presumably people are working behind the scenes yet it appears it is always left too late before moves and appeals become public.
Will the UK ever see a large commercial vessel preserved?

john g
14th July 2010, 14:11
I wonder if anyone has thought of dressing her in her original colours and recording a piece of maritime history

hsc viking
14th July 2010, 19:30
That would be lovely just before she goes forever just paint her up for enthusiasts to see how she should be for one final time.

Once the asbestos has been removed are they scrapping her straight away?

Thanks

Rafal Zahorski
19th September 2010, 18:54
Hello,

Any news related to Manxman?

Best greeting Rafal

nhp651
19th September 2010, 22:07
sadly Rafal, it can only be bad news if there is any.
neil

Rafal Zahorski
20th September 2010, 08:28
Yes Neil, I know. When they will start to break her than I will try to apply again for her columbus davits. She has got much bigger like we had on Bembridge but the same producer so Taylor and sons. They are in terrible conditions but it can be a base to reduce their size, repair and refit for our ready basements. I have two other vessels - one has exactly the same kind like Bembridge - so Columbus LUM type. It looks that for a moment we will have only one main missing element in her restoration. It looks that we have already found two life boats and their davits.

After my visit on Manxman I was asking that shipyard in Sunderland for eventual price but they offered me price like for a new davits. That's why we stopped any discussions. When they will start to cut her - than we can apply once again. Maybe than they will be more realistic. We are not in hurry - we can wait even 2-3 years for a davits in order to have a proper one.

I know that it is very sad to wait for her demolition - but if such a case will take place than maximum amounts of elements must be preserved - only in such a way she can be remembered. There are many beautiful elements on Manxman - like engines for instance to be preserved.

Best greeting Rafal

Duncan112
12th October 2010, 23:12
I've put some photos of her engine room in the gallery - taken when she was in Preston before she was converted to a floating pub.

D Sutton
27th November 2010, 19:30
Is there any news of Manxman? has she been scrapped?

hsc viking
5th December 2010, 21:42
I wish I knew, I hope some news comes around soon.

Rafal Zahorski
4th January 2011, 20:07
Here we published her pictures made in April 2010.

http://www.bembridge.pl/cms.php?lid=pl&gid=48850.

Tomorrow we will add more pictures.

You can find over there two sets of PS Ryde - we made these picture on 29.11.2010.

Best greeting Rafal

Degzie
6th April 2011, 20:13
according to wikiedia the Manxman in January 2011 is currently being dismantled in Pallion shipyard.
Can anyone confirm this ???

oglebilluk
7th April 2011, 10:52
At present they are completing removal of asbestos; then I understand that dis-mantling will begin.
When that happens I have asked to be advised; and will post that information here on SN and also on our YahooGroup.
Why not join, it is free and contains much archive material of the Manxman Steamship Company. Go to Yahoo then Yahoo Groups and search for ssmanxman.

Bill

Burned Toast
7th April 2011, 20:19
according to wikiedia the Manxman in January 2011 is currently being dismantled in Pallion shipyard.
Can anyone confirm this ???

Seen a few workmen onboard, looking from(Gleam) Alexandrer bridge.

Ray

oglebilluk
18th May 2011, 07:43
Just to let you know that the dismantling of Manxman is moving closer, work has now started on the furniture and fittings.

Pallion Engineering has now set up a web site at

www.ssmanxman.co.uk

where they will shortly list items for sale

Bill

oglebilluk
6th August 2011, 08:03
Recently a professional photographer visited Pallion and his pictures are posted at:

http://quintinlake.photoshelter.com/gallery/Pallion-Shipyard-Sunderland/G00006eQF0GWK53A/

The hull opening giving access to the engine room is clear to see and it appears that some windows from the First Class lounge have been removed to facilitate the work

Just this week Pallion Engineering Ltd have advised that dismantling of the Manxman is being delayed in the short term, however the process with continue once again very soon. They will further advise as soon as things start moving again. They now have a database of over 140 people interested in Manxman memorabilia and will issue a catalogue of available pieces in the near future.

Bill

Rafal Zahorski
18th October 2011, 23:10
Hello Bill,

I am trying from a long time to get any info concerning a particular elements of Manxman.

We are interested in the thing what nobody will be interested - so fully rusty columbus davits, their winches and steering panels.

Recently I have sent many e-mails to Juliet, I was trying to call them many times - but nobody wants to speak. Pallion received my full list of parts ( description and pictures) what we intend to buy + our prices. No answer. Not very nice - but true.

I do not want to borrow to Peter - but can you advice me any serious person in Pallion to contact apart Peter?

My problem is very easy - I must complete my davits and all elements to the end of November - so I must buy them, transport to Poland, resize (we had on Bembridge a LUM type Columbus Davits - but Mamxman has a much bigger size of Columbus type), make a new basements (presently they are so rusty that you can not use them anymore and we must restore and repair everything. Our EU founds are ending on the end of November - so if Pallion will not answer - we will order a new ones in Poland. In my opinion reparations and restoration + resizing + transport will be more costly like constructing a new davits in Poland.

Can you help me to with this matter. You know if they will tell me - go to hell man - we prefer to destroy everything - than I will understand them.

Thanks a lot in advance, best greeting Rafal

Duncan112
10th January 2012, 11:49
Seems to have gone very quiet, any news on whether she has been dismantled yet - Pallion's website hasn't changed ands I asked about some bits.

Rafal Zahorski
10th January 2012, 22:16
Hello Duncan,

I will be over there in early February - anyway I am planing to be over there - so less than one month. I have sent several e-mails to Pallion but unfortunately they do not want to give any comments when and the like.

I will be very grateful for any info too.

Best greeting

Rafal

Rafal Zahorski
19th April 2012, 10:59
Hello Everybody,

I am planning to be in UK next week. I wanted to drive to Sunderland to see Manxmann and to discuss about her davits. But it looks that vessel changed her owners in a meantime. I see that previous www page of Manxmann disappeared.

Who knows the new owner and any details. Who can help me? I intend toi buy two pairs of her fore davits for Bembridge but previous owner do not want to give me a details concerning a new one.

Many thanks in advance for any help.

Best greeting from Bembridge's board Rafal

oglebilluk
13th May 2012, 08:38
I understand that Manxman, or what remains, has been sold to a major demolition contractor and the work is proceeding at an accelerated pace. So the register of interests which had been set up by Pallion appears to be defunct. The demolition company are willing to consider a limited number of interests
providing that they can be submitted (or re-submitted) by close of business on
Thursday 17th May and, in view of the short timescale, it was suggested that you please specify the item's of interest to you by e-mail to:

manxman1955@hotmail.com

Individual replies may not always be possible.

At least we now know what is happening.

Regards

Bill

Rafal Zahorski
10th June 2012, 10:25
Hello Bill,

My collogue Kamil is going to be in Sunderland on Monday evening.

On Tuesday in the morning we will have a Polish truck to collect:

1. Columbus LUM type davits of Samuel Taylor and Sons - the most fore set. We must a bit resize them to make them smaller.
2. Their winches, rolls and small elements to serve a steel ropes mounted to her deck
3. Steering boxes for davits and winches
4. Wooden basements for life boats - to be used for our pilot boarding boats
5. Wooden thick and stairs railings
6. some wooden planks and other elements to be used once again on Bembridge including original holders for life rings
7. electric switches and some small electric stuff including original lamp from wheel house used for charts.

and several small elements to decorate Bembridge. It is only one occasion - so Kamil will try to find as much as possible.

So definitively some elements will be saved and re-used on other historic vessel - a bit older but worth to support by Manxman.

Whole story with Manxman is very sad. We were not a first who taken anything from her. We are taking all element when Manxman is really very advanced in her demolition.

Anyway it is sad.

Kamil will make many pictures - so soon we will show you Manxman today look.

Best greeting Rafal

Rafal Zahorski
15th June 2012, 22:52
Hello,

I know - it is a sad view. But I promised. So you can see. All photos were made by our Kamil - sorry he had only a very small camera.

I asked already Michael O'Brien - the Co-owner of O'Brien Demolition Company for more pictures later on when vessel will be more destroyed. Michael O'Brien being a yang man was working in a Smith's Dock - it was his first job with demolition - so he remembers when Smith's Dock disappeared as a company. He is a really a nice person who helped us really a lot.

Many things were destroyed on her without any sense. Previous owner cut off even a propellers from all life boats. Many valuable elements were taken just as a brass or coppers scrub.

No mercy, no respect and no sense.

Previous owner were asking everywhere to give him a list of all interesting objects. Now I know why it was required. He made a long list of all valuable elements and all of them were removed before O'Brien Company bought it. It is a pity - many elements were more than valuable.

Manxman definitively deserved to save many elements from her.

I will preserve her bow, funnel, wheel house and her whole stern with propellers. And of course her steam engine - but previous owner taken everything valuable from her engine destroying her complete look and value. But is is only my personal opinion.

More you will find in Bembridge threat. I will publish over there what we saved from Manxman.

Best greeting Rafal

PS. I am sending my special regards to Bill Ogle - a normal, silent man with GREAT HEART. Heart greater like any possibility to save Manxman. A man who should be definitively respected and admired by all of us.

Ken Green
16th June 2012, 16:22
A crying shame

Marc Trotter
29th June 2012, 11:41
Just passed the dry dock on the bus and the doors were slightly open. I had a look but couldn't see Manxman.

oglebilluk
30th June 2012, 08:30
As of a week ago the superstructure had all been removed. I'm hoping to have some pictures to post.

Bill

A.D.FROST
30th June 2012, 08:39
Is this the begining of the end of this once great site?

Marc Trotter
3rd July 2012, 21:59
Passed again today and the big doors were again slightly open.
I could see a lot of scaffolding and no Manxman. It would seem like the work to scrap her has moved very, very quickly. I would say no more Manxman by even the end of this week.
It's a sad end. I've followed the Manxman ever since she came to Sunderland. I was there when she hit the Wearmouth bridge with her mast. Seeing her rot away at Pallion quay was such a shame. I really hoped she would be saved.

oglebilluk
21st July 2012, 07:25
I am told that dismantling of Manxman has been completed, although not everything has been removed from the dock. Some pictures are added to the Ferries section.
The dismantling has been undertaken by The O'Brien Group (www.g-obrien.co.uk) who have already advertised some items on EBay under the name obrienmdemo. Other items will presumably be offered for sale and their contact tele number is 0191 537 4332

Bill

oglebilluk
22nd July 2012, 08:02
I have now added 2 more pictures to the Ferries section
Bill

I am told that dismantling of Manxman has been completed, although not everything has been removed from the dock. Some pictures are added to the Ferries section.
The dismantling has been undertaken by The O'Brien Group (www.g-obrien.co.uk) who have already advertised some items on EBay under the name obrienmdemo. Other items will presumably be offered for sale and their contact tele number is 0191 537 4332

Bill

oglebilluk
21st August 2012, 10:54
Now that Manxman is completely dismantled, and the dock empty, it seemed a good time to post some GA's of the ship.
These are the Rigging Plan, Upper decks and Lower decks and are uploaded to my own section.
Of necessity they are much compressed. However better quality copies are available on line. You can join the Yahoo Group ssmanxman.
If you have any problems please send me a PM and I'll try Plan B

Bill

Rafal Zahorski
29th June 2013, 08:48
I know that Manxman is now only in our memory but some her elements are now on another old vessel Bembridge.

You can see all elements taken by us from Manxman restored and reused again just in our thread:

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=24193&page=56

Of course we have two sets of her columbus Lum type davits made by Samuel Tylor and Sons Ltd company, wooden supporting stands from her life boats - all used for our Pilot Tender Boats.

We have several wooden crosses from her life boats, ladder from her funnel, many electric switches with whole unit of fire alarms, beautiful lamp from navigational table from her wheel house, some wooden railings and many smaller and bigger element including a machinery telephone with label Bridge.

Everything you can find in our thread.

Bembridge will be more or less ready for The Tall Ships Races on 3-6.08.2013. Than we will be open for visitors for whole 4 days. Everybody is very welcome.

Best greetings Rafal

Rafal Zahorski
20th November 2013, 10:15
Hello,

I have just received this link from Kamil Hajduk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBvdVsJIczo

You can see her even during dismantling her columbus davits which were later on transferred to Poland to support THPV Bembridge 1938 project.

Today everything what we taken from Manxman is mounted on Bembridge, was repaired and restored and ... everything is working like a new devices and machineries

Anybody who wants to touch these Manxman's rescued elements must come to Szczecin, Poland. Sorry it is only one problem :-)

Best greetings from Bembridge's deck Rafal, Kamil and whole our crew.

Hugh Ferguson
20th November 2013, 10:47
Thanks, Rafal, good to hear from you again. I would love to be able to come to Szczecin and tread those decks just one more time but that would not be possible. A strange wish; as when we pilots were waiting on board her, for a ship to arrive flying a G flag, all we wanted to do was to get off her as soon as possible, especially when the weather was bad!!

Rafal Zahorski
24th November 2013, 20:51
Hello Hugh, Yes I know that she was not very comfortable vessel especially during bad weather. She was in service of Cosag Marine Services on North Sea from 1972 till 1976. She was than building the first underwater pipeline for crude oil from Ekofisk Oil Field to Teesside Refinery. That time many crew members left her board only after one trip.

Hugh - I will soon publish a bit on our threat.

Keep well going, Rafal