19th October 2006, 06:39
1421 – The Year China Discovered the World
1421 A Bantam Book : 9780553815221 0553815229 published by Transworld Publishers Author Gavin Menzies
(Scribe) A brilliant book that turns history on its head made even more controversial by the numerous historians debunking the Menzies theories on line. Lots of green cheese being thrown about! I personally believe there is a lot of truth in it…..it is up to you guys and gals, well what do you think?
Check it out on line under 1421.
19th October 2006, 07:06
A load of cobblers!
19th October 2006, 10:48
This book is well worth reading and will undoubtedly upset some cultures regarding their ancestry. It would certainly seem from the evidence that the Chinese Fleets reached parts which others had not at that time.
19th October 2006, 14:18
. It would certainly seem from the evidence that the Chinese Fleets reached parts which others had not at that time.
I think you're getting confused with Heineken!!!
19th October 2006, 14:49
My pal gave me this book for my birthday, far from being enthralling I found it heavy going and good for putting me to sleep at night, I couldn't actually care less if it were true or not. Sorry.
19th October 2006, 19:13
Read this book about a year ago. Mostly a load of garbled misinformation, with a few grains of truth. It may go down with the "gee whizz" crowd, but for anyone with a half serious interest in exploration and navigation, it's a load of rubbish.
19th October 2006, 21:30
I keep watching "Discovery" channel on Sky TV in anticipation of the program that features how China invented the internal combustion engine the CRT and split the atom 4000 years before the Europeans managed it!
19th October 2006, 22:22
What a load of tosh ...
"It is a copy, made in 1763, of a map, dated 1418"
says it all .....
Remember the Voynich manuscripts ... a wonderful hoax
completed with extraordinary detail and accuracy ...
but it was a fake that mystified for hundreds of years.
It is a beautiful creation, though, in it's own right.
20th October 2006, 05:32
I read this a while back and thought it was reasonably well written but went on a bit and included a lot of assumptions.
We know the Chinese were in advance of Europe technologically speaking for a long time but did they discover the entire world in a massive expedition like the author claims? Who knows - it needs a lot of independent corroboration before we start tearing up the history books.
20th October 2006, 08:15
It is known that Chinese and Japanese fishing boats were swept away across the Pacific by storms and other conditions in centuries past, but none was ever reported to have made it back home, so any discovery of the new world via the Pacific was not to be known. This story of discovery via the Atlantic is another "who knows" puzzle.
20th October 2006, 20:17
As one with Chinese origin, I am certainly amused by Menzies' assertion. But it does not matter too much to me whether or not he is right or wrong. He entitles to his opinion and I admired his efforts that devoted to substantiate his opinion. I think history is absolute, only historians that are not all trustworthy. One thing for certain though, historians can never concoct history no matter how hard they try. True history will prevail, sooner or later. So relax, if you enjoy the reading, enjoy it! If not, oh well!
22nd October 2006, 09:56
I think you're getting confused with Heineken!!!
(Jester) Thanks for the laugh, that was brilliant!….the thought gives new meaning to ships in large green bottles sailing the oceans blue.
Equating the European voyages of discovery that followed with modern times, getting the financial backing for projects is the same now as it was all those years ago. “What are the chances of falling off the edge of the earth?” would have been a bit of a downer. Just produce the wee map and floor the opposition is an ideal scenario as Ferdi and Annabels' leading accountant would surely have renewed his membership of the Flat Earth Society rather than approve the cash.
The European expeditions were tiny compared with the job in hand so logically a massive fleet and surveyor work force would be required. This to put in the millions of man hours required to chart so many thousands of miles of coast line. Imagine Mr Columbus turning to his sidekick to tell him that he wants Cuba finished by a week on Tuesday…..aye that’ll be right, give me ten minutes to invent the SatNav. and we’ll be home by next wednesday week.
Thanks for the postings, any more mariners out there willing to add to the intrigue?
24th October 2006, 07:16
My wife gave me the book for a birthday present a year or two back and I read it and also checked out some of the contrary opinion on the net. I don't know what the truth is anymore than the rest of us do; superficially his arguments seem quite persuasive, but he makes some very sweeping assumptions and extrapolations. Reminds me a bit of Von Daniken.
28th October 2006, 17:59
Maybe, like me, you had never heard of Voynich & Von Daniken.
For all us dumbos,
The Voynich manuscript is a mysterious illustrated book with incomprehensible contents. It is thought to have been written approximately 400 years ago by an unknown author in an unidentified script and unintelligible language.
Erich Anton Paul von Däniken (b. Zofingen, Aargau, Switzerland, April 14, 1935) is a controversial Swiss author best known for his books about extraterrestrial influence on human culture since prehistoric times. He is one of the key figures responsible for popularizing the paleocontact and ancient astronaut theories.
Now do you feel much better about yourself? (K)
28th October 2006, 23:50
Could this be the reason I like Chinese food ??
30th October 2006, 10:17
Could this be the reason I like Chinese food ??
Hi Kaiser Bill,
Have a wee look on line @
1421 - Evidence - Pre-Columbian Chinese Jade found in the wake of
1421 - Evidence - Shipwrecks with ''Chinese'' characteristics ...
Seemingly the wreck on Ruapuke could be a Tamil Junk attached to the Zhou Man fleet....may also account for a sudden urge to devour a curry as well?...(Jester)
The Voynich manuscript is a mysterious illustrated book with incomprehensible contents. It is thought to have been written approximately 400 years ago by an unknown author in an unidentified script and unintelligible language - seems like a good read then?
30th October 2006, 11:17
Hmmm ... early evidence of Junk food.
30th October 2006, 11:49
The author states that wrecks on the east coast of Australia are Chinese junks. Of the ones he has marked on his map only three are wooden, the rest are metal and include two submarines. All the wrecks have a known history.
30th October 2006, 21:29
(Jester) [QUOTE=treeve;85934]Hmmm ... early evidence of Junk food
30th October 2006, 21:35
(Jester) The author states that wrecks on the east coast of Australia are Chinese junks. Of the ones he has marked on his map only three are wooden, the rest are metal and include two submarines. All the wrecks have a known history.
Maybe Zhou Man came in the yellow submarine?
Lots of love and tolerance,
30th October 2006, 23:29
Johnny Morris - Zhou Man.
31st October 2006, 01:55
The Voynich manuscript was a beautifully crafted hoax on paper taken from an old monastery and produced this last century, all at once everyone cried hallelujah!! Behold the mystical writings, the strange and interesting plants ( no, it's not Audrey Two ), here lies the secret of the ancients. All kind of murmurings about links with Walsingham and even Elizabeth R.
It was finally proved to be a great and financially motivated plan.
We can all look at the stars and see patterns, or align land features. The permutations are endless. These latest in the Bible Code, The da Vinci Code, etc, are, in my opinion, wonderfully crafted explanations of the blindingly obvious. Hindsight is easy, especially when selecting bits and pieces to make a narrative. Look at Hancock and the Orion theory; falls to pieces when the proper celestial calculations are made. I am all in favour of a jolly good read, and experiencing a fertile mind, but it is just that. As an experienced jigsaw puzzle maker, the picture ain't clear until all the pieces fit. At least with a jigsaw, we have the picture on the box to tell us where to start.
Walsingham Matilda, Walsingham Matilda ......
3rd November 2006, 07:39
Thanks for the posts
Are all us dumbos paying attention?.
Walsingham, in north Norfolk, England (United Kingdom) has been a place of pilgrimage since medieval times, when travel to Rome and Compostella was virtually impossible....what's the wrap then?
Graham Hancock (born 1951) is a British writer and journalist A recurring theme in several of Hancock's works has been an exposition on the "Orion Correlation Theory" The basis of this theory concerns the proposition that the relative positions of three main Ancient Egyptian pyramids on the Giza plateau are (by design) correlated with the relative positions of the three stars in the constellation of Orion
Da Vinci Code/Bible Code - Some things are just not worth knowing…Best Mogadon sleepy pills ever.
1421 - 1421exposed.com. Ya boo suck go the sceptics…Ya boo suck the plots smell…Ya boo suck go the theorists…Ya boo suck to them as well!
Audrey Two – You don’t know who Audrey Two is? You tube, for a life you just need to get, apply within.
Finally Jigsaws – My wife is a Wasgij maniac. You can’t even trust pictures any more.
3rd November 2006, 10:12
And China also founded Switzerland
It is made up of cantons
3rd November 2006, 10:23
BTW it's Francis Walsingham
father of the intelligence network, as it were,
3rd November 2006, 11:52
I dug up a clock in a field near ancient stones
- is this evidence of time travel?
I have the greatest admiration and respect for Chinese culture.
I am fully aware of the Ming journeys to Africa, India and the Pacific,
last one recorded, in 1433. The wording and posturing of this latest
theory just reels with arguments and phraseology that I have seen
in the other theories. Going back to Voynich, it was even put forward
by experts that John Dee ( a real piece of work ) was involved. Now
it is known that the document was forged on authentic paper with
authentic inks - all the experts opinions mean nothing. Then there was
the theory that there were seven magical temples all over the world
- trouble was the seventh one was impossible to find, then, as if by
magic, some geological features were found deep under the sea, and
"they looked like a temple". I do believe that if a person is totally blinkered
then that person will argue and search just to find what he/she is looking for
to the total exclusion of all else. I like to look at these theories and to enjoy
them as they are - theories. And I certainly don't see Western civilisation in
isolation and as the only culture with science - in fact the Arab world has
the first on most of our cultural and scientific giant steps.
10th December 2007, 11:17
As part of the research I am doing I have just watched a documentary on the ABC on Mr. Menzies and in the interview it was full of answers like:
"we have been told on good authority that one of the wrecks is Chinese and very old."
He could not explain the evidence that the Newport round tower was a stone windmill. The proof was in the Newport Museum.
As for the Bimini road:
The Bimini road was claimed to be a slipway for the Junks but on checking my dive logs it turns out that they are at an "Avg Depth: 15 ft. / 5m and a Max Depth: 20 ft. / 6m under water."
A bit deep for a slipway I think.
As John Briggs writes...A load of cobblers! I could not agree more...(Scribe)
11th December 2007, 16:00
There are loads of these theories, some have a grain of truth, some significantly more. A key phrase that should put you off is "must have", and either inaccurate referencing, as mentioned above, or an absence of referencing.
For example, there was a theory some 30 years ago that there were some Romans in the Chinese Empire. Captured by the Parthians who transferred them to the east of their Empire then captured by Huns, who transferred them to the east of their Empire, then captured by the Chinese who captured the city that they were part of the garrison ofd. The theory was based in part on a Chinese description of some soldiers they captured, who were unlike soldiers that they had seen before, and who were "fair haired and fair skinned" and with "fishscale armour".
Therefore they must have been Romans and the rest of the theory was concocted to fit.
Similarly there was a theory that "A Roman" must have seen the Great Wall and gave the idea to Trajan, who built a all in Dacia, who then gave the idea to his adoptive son Hadrian who built his wall in Britain. Trajan couldn't possibly have had the idea by himself!