France, Norway, Blue Lady the saga continues

Paul UK
20th January 2006, 18:02
Maritime matters report Norway sale to Scrappers cancelled due to Toxic waste problems.

And that Star have broken a promise with the French made to enable her to leave Bremerhaven.

Paul (Applause)

kelgels
23rd January 2006, 09:44
France's TV FR3 report that Star Cruises have cancelled the recent sale of NORWAY to Indian scrappers.
The reversal came from fears of potential legal action being taken against the company for breaking an
agreement to not sell the asbestos-laden ship for scrap when she was towed away from Bremerhaven last
year. Various environmental groups have recently put pressure on European nations for selling toxic ships
to Asian shipbreakers where standards are more relaxed. There are further reports that suggest the
Malaysian Government has been investigating the sale. (Applause)
The NORWAY, inactive since a fatal boiler explosion in Miami killed eight crew members in 2003, remains
at anchor off Port Klang, Malaysia.

Thamesphil
23rd January 2006, 10:19
I am involved with the ship demolition market and I can tell you that these TV and newspaper stories are very misleading.

According to demolition sources, the Norway has NOT been withdrawn from the market. She has been committed to a cash buyer who intends to scrap her. However, the cash buyer is also rumoured to have several trading offers on the table.

Phil

Thamesphil
7th February 2006, 16:46
This from Fairplay Daily news. I would stress that market sources are still insisting that she will sail for demolition 'shortly'.

NORWEGIAN Cruise Line’s SS Norway is still at anchor off Port Klang, Malaysia, awaiting its final voyage to breakers. The owner - Genting subsidiary Star Cruises - is believed to be finding it difficult to secure a buyer in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. The row over the proposed demolition of the French aircraft carrier Clemenceau at Alang scrapyard in India has discouraged prospective buyers. Environmental groups have threatened action if Clemenceau is scrapped because of the presence of asbestos onboard. The 1961-built Norway is said to contain 1,250 tonnes of material with asbestos content. Norway has been given a new name, Blue Lady, but Star Cruises declined to comment on speculation that the ship’s name has been changed to avoid attracting attention if and when it proceeds to a demolition yard.

Paul UK
7th February 2006, 19:01
I thought most ships changed name on the way to the beach, so this sounds dodgy.

Paul

fred henderson
7th February 2006, 19:29
Could Star have changed the name to warn buyers that she contains blue asbestos?

Fred (*))

kelgels
17th February 2006, 12:38
I have heard reports that this ship is on the move as we speak.

I was just wondering if anybody knows what Tug(s) are conducting the tow?

I know she is not going to bangladesh, so it looks like she is going to Alang. If the Indians don't ban her also (hopefuly they will)

fred henderson
17th February 2006, 15:38
Forgive me Kelgels, but if the Indians do ban Blue Lady, because of her very significant asbestos content (estimated as 1,250 to 2,000 tons), what other options do you feel are open for her?

Fred

ruud
17th February 2006, 15:45
Ahoy David & Fred,

What about Pres. Chirac, calling her back as well as he ordered the Clemenceau.?All French will be delighted to see her back,and rename her France again.(*))

fred henderson
17th February 2006, 16:45
Nice one Ruud.

It was the French Supreme Court that decreed Clemencaeu was a contaminated ship, because she has 75 tons of asbestos on board. As a result EEC law prevents her being sent to a non-EEC country as scrap. Chirac was forced to order her diversion to "French territorial waters" until the matter can be resolved.
This is a huge embarrassment to Chirac, as he is about to arrive in India on a state visit and the Indians are claiming that his action will result in 10,000 people being thrown out of work in Alang. I may be wrong, but I think that the Indians are unlikely to throw away this opportunity to obtain trade concessions from France by rejecting Blue Lady.
Blue Lady belongs to Star, the owners of NCL. As neither Malaysia or Norway are EEC members the Clemencaeu ruling does not apply. Chirac has no influence or interested in a heavilly modified ex CGT ship with up to 2,000 tons of asbestos on board. Even when the French Government owned her, they were happy to sell France to a Saudi arms dealer.

Fred (Thumb)

kelgels
18th February 2006, 00:29
OK Fred that is a far enough comment.

Obviously to put but this ship back into service she will have to have 1 of 2 options to her power plant undertaken: 1. Completley strip her of the Steam Driven equipment and replace it with either Desiel Electric or a Gas Turbine System. 2. Total overhaul of the boilers and associated equipment.

No doubt she would have to have an inspection regards the Asbestos. But I belive from previous reports on other pages I have read that the Asbestos on this ship is safe.

Now there have been reports of a Dutch Business Man who wants to buy the ship as a floating Hotel and Confrence and he apparently tried to buy her when NCL had her laid up in Germany. There are several issues over this ships movments that are questionable, shoudl the US allowed it to leave Miami in the first place knowing that there was a strong posibility that the ship would not be repaired, Should Germany allowed it leave considering towing her to Port Kalang was closer to the sub cont Ship breaking yards.

But then you look at NCL who brought the United States and are thinking about restoring her? Ok the Norway did not break the Transatlantic record, but she is just as famous.

I don't know what other options are open to her and I don't know what her condition is like inside, but just from what I have seen from the exterior she still looks to be in bloody good condition for her age. But the Indian Ship Breaking Industry has just been given a major kick in the guts and no doubt now because of all the international attention over the French Aircraft Carrier is going force chages in the shipbreeaking industry world wide.

All ships have a use by date, I can accept that. But it with room on land decreasing perhaps there is a role for retired passenger ships to play as floating hotels?

flyer682
18th February 2006, 07:58
Maritime Matters reported the following on 13 February:

"BLUE LADY (ex FRANCE, NORWAY) languishes at her Port Klang, Malaysia anchorage as environmentalists enlist government involvement to block the ship's delivery to either Indian or Bangladeshi breakers. The ship's asbestos content is under international scrutiny and now no buyers will come to the table to scrap her until the issue is resolved."

fred henderson
18th February 2006, 13:16
The increasingly unreliable turbine machinery of QE2 was replaced by diesel electric in 1986 at a cost of £100 million. The refit was based upon extending the life of QE2 by 25 years and it reduced her fuel consumption by 250 tons per day.
Those 25 years are almost over. Carnival have stated that they will fund the considerable costs required to enable QE2 to meet the new international safety regulations that come into force 2009/10. Carnival is a highly profitable company, Star struggle to break even. I do not think there is any possibility of Blue Lady being returned to operational use.
I also think that there is very little chance of United States returning to service. I think Star bought her in order to get another non-US built ship into the Jones Act coverage for their US subsidiary. The plan being to carry out a detailed study before saying "Sorry it is not possible to restore the United States." She would then be scrapped but the additional Jones Act ship would remain. The asbestos fuss seems to have blown a big hole in this plan.
Perhaps the two ships will become hotels, but the asbestos scare may rule that out. It is of course highly likely that most of the asbestos is the non-toxic white variety, but scientific facts like this are usually ignored by the folks who make a living out of green scares.
A repeat of the QE fire perhaps?

Fred

David Wilcockson
18th February 2006, 20:27
I was under the impression the United States was towed to Turkey & back in order to have asbestos removed, which would be a big hurdle out of the way for for present owners. However they make no moves what so ever to refurbish her, & in my humble opinion never will do so. There is only one foreseeable out come unfortunately for this fine vessel.
D (egg) avid

kelgels
5th March 2006, 12:04
Any body heard anything further about her recently. It seems to have gone all quiet about her again.

Did see on very short article, early last week that there was an organisation in Europe had applied to have the ship listed some sort Heritage Register? It did not name an organisation, I did hear that another enviromental organisation other than Greenpeace were also asking a few questions about her.

Just wondering, worries me that Star might be trying to do something behind everybody concerned back to get rid of the ship.

kelgels
25th March 2006, 13:36
Recived this information today.



A story in today's online edition of the Star newspaper reports that the Norway, former flagship of Norwegian Cruise

Line, has been sold to a Bangladeshi businessman for $12 million dollars. If true, this will be the second time the ship

has been sold within the past three months.

Back in January, the ship's owner, NCL-parent Star Cruises announced the ship had been sold and was headed for a

scrap yard in Chittagong. That plan took an unexpected turn when Star learned that it might be subject to significant

environmental-related fines if the ship was broken up because she still contained more than 3,000 tons of asbestos.

Environmental groups have for a long time been targeting the ship breaking activities in India and Pakistan claiming

that the largely manual process of scrapping a ship releases hazardous materials into the environment. Most recently,

they joined local groups to seek a court order in an attempt to block the scrapping of the former French aircraft carrier

Clemenceau.

Sources have indicated that fines related to the large amount of asbestos on board could range as high as $10 million.

Those of you that have been following this saga from the beginning may remember that sceptics claimed Star's

announcement that it was moving the ship from Germany to Asia last year to become part of a resort was nothing

more than a way for the company to dodge European environmental laws.

While the sale announced today has all the earmarkings of a sale for scrap, it is not clear how the new owner will

overcome the asbestos-related issues. Following the uproar in January, the Bangladesh Environment and Forest

Minister issued an order preventing the ship from entering Bangladesh territory.

It is possible, although unlikely, that the new owner will attempt to convert the ship into a hotel or resort facility. At

this point however, there is no indication that this is part of the plan.

fred henderson
25th March 2006, 14:58
The sensible thing would be for the EEC to set up environmentally sound asbestos removal services based at the main shipbreaking yards. That would not please Greenpeace and the like as it seems to me that the guys who run these organisations earn their salaries from bogus scare stories, not from the production of solutions.

Fred :rolleyes:

J Boyde
26th March 2006, 09:01
Removing asbestos is not a impossible task. I have seen it done, alright, it was a very big job but done none the less. Further, it was done without a great lot of fuss. Where I was involved it was a major industry with 6 boilers and steam lines of considerable lengths. It was costly and the company did have its own dump for it, covered, sealed, for ever. I am sure that all countries are capable of puting the procedures in place, do it and I am confident that the fuss will soon dissappear.
Jim B

tom nicholson
26th March 2006, 14:10
it allready happens in this country and has been for a very long time just a few year ago the complete engine room of one of the rover class R F As was stripped of all asbestos, the big problem is the cost as usual owners dont want to pay out of the profits.

cheers tom (*))

oglebilluk
27th March 2006, 09:29
it allready happens in this country and has been for a very long time just a few year ago the complete engine room of one of the rover class R F As was stripped of all asbestos, the big problem is the cost as usual owners dont want to pay out of the profits.

cheers tom (*))


I know that the scale is much smaller but as part of the surveys re possible restoration of Manxman (see www.ssmanxman.co.uk) the quotation for removal of asbestos from engine room, boiler room and elsewhere is some £250,000

Bill

Paul UK
28th April 2006, 11:00
Maritime Matters report that the Blue Lady will be on the beach in Alang within the month.

Paul

dom
28th April 2006, 12:32
still in the pipeline?the evironmental authority in bangladesh has been alerted and the ship is not to be broken up in the chittagong area,unless there have been some later developments

rushie
10th May 2006, 20:01
A press report, dated today, states: Another asbestos-lined vessel is heading for the western Indian ship-breaking yard in Alang, the environmental group Greenpeace says. Passenger Blue Lady, ex Norway, with more than 900 tonnes of toxic waste on board, was banned from Bangladeshi breaking yards in February. The Indian government has not yet commented on the issue and a port officer at Alang said he had received no official information about the vessel.

Taken from Lloyds List 10/05.

Rushie

ruud
11th May 2006, 23:33
Ahoy,

Dear Friends,

I have just read and signed the online petition:

"Petition to Save ex SS FRANCE, Ex SS NORWAY, BLUE LADY TO THE SCRAPPING"

hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition
service, at:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/PLPF02/ (http://www.petitiononline.com/PLPF02/)

I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might
agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and consider
signing yourself.

Best wishes,

Ruud

Note:Just give it a try!Besides she was a beautiful "LADY", here seen on her maiden voyage

rushie
15th May 2006, 13:47
Bad news for all.....

A report in Lloyds List breaking news section this morning says that the Indian Gov has thrown out an appeal by Greenpeace for the Norway to be banned from entering Indian waters due to the large amount of toxic material on board.

The ship is now expected to sail for the beaches at Alang.

RIP

Rushie

David Wilcockson
15th May 2006, 22:41
Once again I think it`s a case of too little too late, & just goes to prove that the bean counters win in the end, no heart or soul. Profit before all else.
David (Cloud)

flyer682
16th May 2006, 07:30
Maritime Matters reports that she sailed from Klang anchorage at 1600 on 5 May under tow for Alang where she is expected around the 1 June.

rushie
16th May 2006, 07:44
I agree David it's total profiteering but in this case the Indian Gov are putting greed before the good of their people.

All those poor b**tards will have to remove 900 tons of toxic material will be a boiler suit and a pair of rubber gloves...if they're lucky. It says a lot when even a country as poor as Bangladesh refuses to take the ship on health and safety grounds.

If you go into a search engine and type Alang you'll find some pictures of their working conditions.

There again...I'm surprised our Government didn't tender for the job to be done at Hartlepool...ah but of course...the ship isn't a Yank vessel....

Rushie. (Ouch)

fred henderson
16th May 2006, 12:49
Of course we do not know which type of asbestos is invoved. If it is white it is completely harmless. Not that would stop Greenpeace, who have never been known to allow facts to get in the way of a good headline.

Fred

R736476
16th May 2006, 13:24
Good on yer Fred,
The Indian Government has obviously decided that the benefits of employment outweigh the risks in breaking up the ex France. I doubt if they'll consult Greenpeace when they come to break up Viraat ex Hermes in due course, plenty dodgy lagging there.
Greenpeace appears to have lost it's way or been hijacked of late. It did a great job in the past supporting the whales, harrassing the French nuclear tests and rightly kicking up a stink about Brent Spar, but it now seems to be almost anti the industrial revolution. Are these the same brigade who expect to switch the light on each night, expect 21st century miracle drugs, wear leather shoes but are anti coal, nuclear power, wind farms and extreme animal rights campaigners.
It's high time the Government and it's agencies gave the go ahead to breaking up the ghost fleet at Hartlepool with the necessary risk assessments and controls put in place.

rushie
16th May 2006, 13:29
It's high time the Government and it's agencies gave the go ahead to breaking up the ghost fleet at Hartlepool with the necessary risk assessments and controls put in place.

Bet the Indian workers wish they had these too...!

kelgels
16th May 2006, 15:08
I have been approached by a gentleman who has asked my to leave his name anonymus, but is writing a book on the History of this ship.

He was wondering if anybody knows which tug(s) currently had her under tow? The reason he says tugs is that 1 tug towed her from Germany but he has heard reports that up to 3 tugs are towing currently.

Has any body heard any confirmed reports on her next destination as he has heard reports that she is going to Dubai for a Hull Inspection?

Any information you can provide would be great so I can pass it on to him.

R58484956
16th May 2006, 15:43
Clemenceau arrives back in Brest on Wednesday 17th May 06

kelgels
18th May 2006, 08:56
She is now undertow to Dubai as she has been blocked entry to Indian Waters. She is still on the Market at $27mil US.

Any body have any idea on what tug or tugs are towing her?

Paul UK
18th May 2006, 09:13
Maybe she will spend the rest of her days being towed from port to port !!

Paul UK
22nd May 2006, 17:15
The story continues, I dont know if it is true (source Maritime Matters) but she has been banned from alang now.

Story is asking if she will accidentally beach and then need to be broken up in situ.

We await the next chapter.

Paul

newda898
22nd May 2006, 17:21
She's a stubborn old girl isn't she? Don't think she wants to go yet.

vchiu
23rd May 2006, 16:14
Don't give a sh_t about what is happening to the Former France. They prefer the state's money to go to welfare.

Every time the clemenceau is mentioned in the newspaper, the editors add an example of a ship being sunk as artificial reef. Preservation? this word doesn't exist in the vocabular of many journalists nor in the readership's

Pathetic

dom
2nd June 2006, 03:38
the indian express
a technical committee set up by the supreme court will on thursday sumit a report in wich it has recommended that the ship be allowed to dock off the ship breaking yard in alang,on the gujarat coast.

Paul UK
6th June 2006, 17:36
Maritime Matters reporting that the all clear has been given to beach the Blue Lady in Alang.

Looks like the end.. :@

Paul

rushie
6th June 2006, 19:41
From a Maritime press release today...

New Delhi - India's Supreme Court Monday permitted asbestos- lined ocean liner SS Norway into the country's territorial waters.

The direction came after a pollution control agency had last month barred the ship from entering western Gujarat state's Alang shipyard where it was due to be scrapped.

A two-judge bench of the apex court accepted the interim report of the Committee of Technical Experts on Ship Wrecking and said the ship had to conform to its recommendations.

The committee in its reports had recommended safe anchorage of the ship, in Indian waters for its inspection by high-level committee of technical experts.

The experts would determine the amount of toxic materials and contaminants on board, after which a decision on whether the vessel could be scrapped would be taken.

The ship, popularly known as 'Blue Lady', has been on high seas since early May when it had set sail for India from Malaysia.

Environmental groups, including Greenpeace, allege that the ship, which contains more than 900 tons of asbestos and is among the top 50 toxic ships in the world, poses a hazard for India's environment as well as for workers at Alang.

In February, the supreme court prevented the entry of decommissioned French aircraft carrier the Clemenceau which allegedly contained hazardous waste.

Later that month, French President Jacques Chirac recalled the ship following aggressive protests by environmental groups.

The SS Norway, a French-built ship, was originally named the SS France in 1962 and was considered a masterpiece.

The 315-metre-long vessel was bought in 1979 by Norwegian Cruise Line, renamed the Norway, and plied the Caribbean until a 2003 boiler room explosion in Miami that killed seven people.

Parent company Malaysian-based Star Cruises sold the ailing vessel to Bangladeshi ship-breaker, Haji Lokman Hossain for 7.5 million dollars.

This should open the floodgates for a lot more soon (they'll be stoking up a French aircraft carrier as we speak)....watch India become an EU member and competing in the Eurovision Song Contest very soon....

Rushie

david
7th June 2006, 06:36
Good One Rushie!!
Too many hypocrites...too much B.S.
Regards,
David D.

dom
7th June 2006, 11:18
thetwo tugs attending the norway/blue lady
intersurf built 1976 as boa prince
seaways 5 x deymos

David Wilcockson
7th June 2006, 12:31
Was it ever going to end any other way. Too many back handers & brown envelopes, allegedly.
David

rushie
7th June 2006, 16:30
Absolutely...Indian Gov represented by Cherie Blaie QC perhaps....?

Rushie

R58484956
7th June 2006, 19:26
Clemonceau next????????

rushie
9th June 2006, 09:03
Maritime press release - 08 June

Famed SS France (Cruise Ship Norway) Moves Closer to Scrap Yard

The famed ocean liner SS France, which later enjoyed a successful second life as the cruise ship Norway, moved a step closer to the scrap yard on June 5th when India's Supreme Court gave permission for the "Blue Lady," as it is now named, to be brought into the port of Alang for inspection by authorities.

The Blue Lady has been anchored some 75 miles off the coast of India while environmentalists sought to block its entry into Indian territorial waters, contending that the Alang ship-breaking yard is not equipped to safely dismantle the ship, which is laden with hundreds of tons of asbestos and other toxic wastes.

While the Indian high court did not permit the dismantling of the ship until further orders, it accepted the government's argument that an inspection of the ship -- to determine if breaking up the ship could be accomplished safely -- was not possible unless the ship was permitted to arrive in Alang.

The ship -- sold for scrap by Star Cruises, parent company of Norwegian Cruise Line -- left Malaysia under tow more than a year ago, seeking to find a ship-breaking yard that would accept it. In late 2005, the Bangladesh government prohibited it from entering that country on health and environmental grounds.

The Blue Lady then had been due to arrive by May 24 at the world's largest shipbreaking yard in Alang, but Greenpeace and other environmental groups asked the Indian courts to ban the ship on grounds it contains toxic materials local shipyards are not equipped to handle.

Earlier this year, the French aircraft carrier Clemenceau -- reportedly containing hazardous substances similar to those on the Blue Lady -- was bound for dismantling in Alang, but was recalled by the French government after the Indian Supreme Court refused entry to the ship.



Rushie

Gulpers
12th June 2006, 17:18
Some interesting trivia from the BBC on France/Norway. (Thumb)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5060206.stm

Mark Taxis
14th June 2006, 08:24
Latest news from SS Maritime, looks a bit more promising
Rgds
Mark

Dear friends of SS France / Norway

Having placed the announcement of "Project SS France" online last week on www.ssMaritime.com/newsupdates2.htm, I was excited and amazed to discover that in that time I received just over 11,000 emails of support. I hereby wish to personally thank you for your support and encouragement of the projects in hand. In addition I was happy to hear that so many of you intend to both visit and stay on this, the greatest French liners built in our era, no matter where she is located.

I extend my sincere apologies for not being able to respond to you individually, but I am sure you will understand that is due to the massive number of emails received. However, be assured that each email of support is special to us and they are forwarded the main players in this campaign!

The overall news is quite positive at this stage, and as I am in direct contact with the parties involved, Thus, I will able to place the latest news online as soon as it comes to hand. At this stage negotiating are in full swing with the owners, the longer these last the longer she will be held far from the beach!

As SS Blue lady is currently located at Fujerah, in the UAE, things seem quite positive!

I suggest that you keep an eye on the new "Save a Classic Liner Campaign" - "Project SS Norway - France" page on www.ssMaritime.com/newsupdates2.htm

If you have anything to add or have a recent or historic photograph of interest, I would appreciate receiving them.

I am feeling more confident than I have over the past 10 months, as previous attempts to buy her were lame to say the least. There have been many who had the heart and desire to save her, and all had some great ideas, but all this enthusiasm needs financial backing, and that was obviously lacking. Sadly, from what I know, most of these attempts had little know how to go about and fulfilling such a massive task. But, now, there are several companies who know what they are doing, but remember, we still need to keep our fingers crossed!

Again thank you for your support!

Best wishes and Viva le SS France!

Reuben Goossens
Nautilus Media Australia
PO Box 2039 Runcorn Qld 4113
Brisbane Australia
www.ssMaritime.com
www.e-CruiseWorld.com
www.Cruise-Australia.net
www.AustCruiseClub.com

david
14th June 2006, 09:20
I think that I have become even more cynical as the yeras roll on, (by?), but I can't help but thinking that Reuben and others like him, and I include myself in this category..i.e. a Shiplover, that we can march in the streets, send messages to our local member, write letters to the editor and rail about the destruction of our maritime heritage in forums such as this etc etc, but at the end of the day it comes down to the old story,--COLD HARD CASH!!.
Would it be fantastic if all of the 11,000 folks who sent him messages of support also were able to stump up $1000.00 each, or even 50% 0f them $10,000 each, then maybe there could be a different outcome?
But I am afraid this will never happen as those who could afford this sort of help are too focused on the future, to be thinking about saving some treasures of the past.
They probably don't even know of the existance of this ship.
Sorry about that rail shipmates, but I had to get it of fmy chest.
Regards,
David D.

david
14th June 2006, 09:22
I think that I have become even more cynical as the years roll on, (by) but I can't help but thinking that Reuben and others like him, and I include myself in this category..i.e. a Shiplover, that we can march in the streets, send messages to our local member, write letters to the editor and rail about the destruction of our maritime heritage in forums such as this etc etc, but at the end of the day it comes down to the old story,--COLD HARD CASH!!.
Would it be fantastic if all of the 11,000 folks who sent him messages of support also were able to stump up $1000.00 each, or even 50% 0f them $10,000 each, then maybe there could be a different outcome?
But I am afraid this will never happen as those who could afford this sort of help are too focused on the future, to be thinking about saving some treasures of the past.
They probably don't even know of the existance of this ship.
Sorry about that rail shipmates, but I had to get it of my chest.
Regards,
David D.

rushie
30th June 2006, 10:51
Interesting article from the Khaleej Times -

Did mystery ship ownerslie over fate of ssNorway?

DOCUMENTS obtained by enviornmental campaigners appear to show the present owners of the ssNorway, the famous cruise liner Dubai investors want to save from an Indian ship breaking yard, gave false information to marine, government and court officials.


The ship, now renamed the 'Blue Lady,' is considered the last of the great cruise ships and to be of great cultural significance in the annals of maritime history. The vessel has been bought by a consortium of Indian scrappers who plan to tear the 1000-foot liner apart for her steel.

The ship is currently owned by a mysterious Liberian shell company, Bridgeend Shipping, who apparently bought the ship from its long-time owners and operators, the Malaysian-based Star Cruises. Bridgeend, in turn, is holding a promissory note for $19.3 million from the consortium of Indian breakers, Haryana Steel, in payment for the liner.

The true owners or controllers of Bridgeend Shipping is not known, although sources have told Khaeej Times the company has an interest in Haryana Steel.

The scrapping is being vigorously opposed by environmental groups who say the Indian breakers do not have the facilities or technology to safely dispose of the estimated 1,000 tons of asbestos used as fire retardent on board the ship. Last month, the Indian Supreme Court ordered a special Technical Committee to inspect the Blue Lady and assess the asbestos risk before she is allowed to be scrapped. The ship has been granted permission to anchor in Indian waters while the court makes its decision.

The Khaleej Times has learnt the Blue Lady was due to drop anchor at Alang at 8.40am Friday. Once there, she will be boarded by the inspection team, who are already in the town investigating the ability of the scrapper to safely dispose of the asbestos. Their report is expected by the end of the first week of July.

Yesterday, however, the Khaleej Times obtained access to documents that reveal the ship's owners gave apparently misleading information to marine and government officials in order to move the ship from its former berth at Kalang Harbor, Malaysia to India.

According to a document provided by the Malaysian Maritime Department, Bridgeend Shipping told Malay authorities on May 19 they were sailing to Dubai where the Blue Lady was to undergo 'repairs'.

In fact, the liner was towed directly to India. Once there, the ship's owners appealed to the Supreme Court to be allowed to anchor in Indian Waters on 'humanitarian grounds'. On June 5, a month after leaving Malaysia, the owners claimed the Indian crew would not be safe on the boat during monsoon season and might run out of food and water. In response, the court allowed the liner to anchor, but only until the technical Committee report was complete.

Then, the liner was turned around and towed to the UAE, docking at Fujairah for two days before again being towed back to the edge of Indian territorial waters.

Gopal Krishna, who is coordinating the environment campaign to prevent the ship being scrapped in India, said by misrepresenting the true destination of the Blue Lady when she left Malaysia, Bridgeebd Shipping had violated international law.

Specifically, he said, the owners had violated the United Nations Basel Convention on Hazardous Wastes which stipulates that ships containing material such as asbestos must be decontaminated in the home country first before being broken up.

Mr Krishna said the ship left Kalang having already been sold for scrapping by the Liberian shell company. Therefore the ship should have been cleared of asbestos in Liberia. Instead the owners appear to have moved the vessel on the notion it was being repaired in the UAE, when in fact it was going to India for scrapping.

Mr Krishna said: "Additionally, they told the court they needed to anchor in Indian waters on humanitarian grounds because the crew might be at risk. Why then did they, after they were granted permission, move the ship to UAE and then bring her back again? If they were really concerned about crew safety, would they have not immediately moved her directly into Indian waters or, having moved her to the UAE, kept her docked there until the monsoons were over?"

Mr Krishna said he would be filing the documents with the Supreme Court as part of the case opposing the ship's destruction in India.

In the meantime, there is growing support for 'Project Dubai', a $120 million rescue plan developed by a joint UAE/US consortium of investors to save the ship and bring it to Dubai as a floating hotel, conference,

restaurant and cultural center. Since the Khaleej Times story of June 28, Project Dubai's investors have been flooded with calls and offers of support.

John Voet, one of Project Dubai's US partners, said they were committed to having the Blue Lady's asbestos expertly removed and made safe before she was brought back to the UAE. "The risk from the asbestos is only a risk if the ship is broken up,' he said. "We want to make sure everyone walks away from this happy."

Rashid al Noori, a UAE partner, said: "The ship is still beautiful - a work of art. She needs cleaning and some attention, but there is no doubt she could become exactly the kind of niche project envisioned by

His Highness Shaikh Mohammad bin Rashid Al Maktoum to bring the cultures of other nations into Dubai."

Let's just hope the Dubai option comes off

Rushie

Peter Eccleson
30th June 2006, 11:06
Been following the story on www.ssmaritime.com - makes interesting reading! Especially the ownership issues! Quite a damming campaign against allegations of lies etc from NCL regarding the future of the s.s. United States and the Independence
An interesting and somewhat "nostalgic" site. (Applause)

benjidog
1st July 2006, 18:06
Not everyone looks at breaking up this ship as a disaster. This is a copy of a report in the Oman Daily Observer 1 July 2006 which acknowledges Reuters as the source. I have put the bit I am referring to in Bold.

Ahmedabad - A former cruise liner anchored in Indian waters yesterday despite protests by environmentalists who say it contains toxic asbestos hazardous to the health of the ship-breakers.

The Supreme Court has allowed the scrapping of the 46,000 tonne Blue Lady, formerly SS Norway, provided it is declared safe by experts.

The vessel is berthed 73 nautical miles off Alang, a sprawling shipbreaking yard in the western state of Gujarat and port officials said experts were checking the asbestos content.

Greenpeace and other groups say the ship contains more than 900 tonnes of asbestos and due to the lack of modern technology at yards like Alang, it is not safe for the workers to break it.

In a report last December the group said thousands of workers in the ship-breaking industry in countries such as India, China and Pakistan had probably died over the past two decades in accidents or due to exposure to toxic waste.

But the workers at Alang are eagerly waiting for the ship. "We pray to scrap the Blue Lady. By cutting it we will get money every day" said Devan Guna.

In February the French government recalled aircraft carrier Clemenceau as it was en route for Alang after a lengthy campaign by Greenpeace which said the ship carried toxic waste.

So there it is - money to survive basically. But there is really no reason why these people should not break the ships safely and still make a living if they were given the right equipment and training - but this means the owners would have to pay a proper price for disposal which obviously would not do.

Grrrrr!!!!! (Cloud)

Brian

dom
2nd July 2006, 05:06
A KHALEEJ TIMES SCRUTINY EXCLUSIVE
ship breakers could start tearing apart the ss norway,last of the great liners as early as next week in apparent voilation of a court ruling forbidding the ships immediate destruction,sources have told khaleej times.
informed sources close to the ship breakers,say the breakers are prepared to start beaching the 1,000ft ship within the next 48hrs at lang,india the worlds largest shipbreaking yard.
there're prepared to start on monday,the source said referring to haryan the ship breaking company

brianh
2nd July 2006, 05:47
The decision to sell the ss Norway for scrap is probably the most talked about liner demolition since the Ile de France in the 1950's. It really is too bad that the national flagship of France and then Norway could not have found a home in one of those two countries as a hotel-meeting centre-museum. Future generations will no doubt wonder what we were thinking by allowing these great accomplishments to be destroyed. I guess we need to be thankful that the Queen Mary still survives and hopefully ss Rotterdam will as well.

ssmaritime
5th July 2006, 07:34
I am sure many of you have been following the Norway saga unfold over the past year. However, may I suggest that you visit http://www.ssmaritime.com/newsupdates2.htm on a daily basis, as when it happens, I will have it online. I am closely involved with the company Bleu Ribband/Gulf Desert LLC, who are currently negotiating with the ships owners. In order to find out more, I have placed Simon Cooper’s first article which covers it adequately.

Reuben Goossens
Maritime Historian, Author & Lecturer
ssMaritime.com

Dubai bid to save historic cruise liner
Scrutiny Special Report
A GROUP of Dubai investors have launched an ambitious plan to save the ssNorway, considered along with the QE2 to be the last of the great cruise liners, from Indian breakers who plan to scrap the vessel within the next two weeks.
‘Project Dubai', as it has been dubbed, is a $100-120 million plan that would see the liner snatched from the breakers and transformed into a luxury floating hotel and conference center moored in the city's harbour.
A joint UAE/US venture company called Gulf Desert LLC/Bleu Ribband has been established to negotiate with the liner's current owners and operators, who are towing the 1,000 foot-long passenger vessel to Alang, India, home of the world's largest ship-breaking yard.
John Voet, one of the U.S. partners, says the Dubai group had high hopes of buying the ship before wreaking crews start to tear her apart. Voet said the ship would be a 'fantastic commercial venture' for Dubai, that would eventually provide hundreds of new, much-needed hotel rooms as well as adding a significant cultural and historical asset to the city.
Marine historian Rueben Goossens, who started an online campaign to save the liner, said Project Dubai' would add 'yet another structure of great prestige to one of the great cities of the world.' Goossens said he had received 3,000 emails from people supporting the plan. “80 per cent of the people who have written to me say they will visit Dubai and stay on the ssNorway," Goossens added.
The fate of the ssNorway has been at the center of a growing controversy that has seen environmental groups and marine preservation organizations at war with the ship's owners, Malaysian-based Star Cruises.
Originally launched in May1960 as the French 'national vessel', the then named ssFrance was the longest transatlantic passenger ship in the world and arguably the most luxurious. The ship featured 1,200 cabins, two 800 and 900 seat restaurants, two swimming pools and a two-tier, 748 seat theatre. Move star Cary Grant and painter Salvador Dali often
vacationed on the ship. Even the Mona Lisa has been a passenger: the great painting was transported on the liner when France briefly lent Da Vinci's masterpiece to a US exhibition.
The liner was sold in 1979 to Norwegian Cruise Lines, who renamed her the ssNorway. She then spent the next 25 years cruising the Caribbean. But in 2003 a devastating boiler room explosion killed eight crew members while the ssNorway was docked in Miami.
After being towed to Germany for repairs, NCL's chief executive appeared to do a U-turn announcing the ssNorway would never sail again. The ship was towed to Malaysia where she floated until she was bought for scrapping in Bangladesh.
But, after a vociferous campaign by the environmental group Greenpeace, which branded the ssNorway as one of the world's 50 most 'toxic' ships, this February the Bangladeshi government refused to let the liner enter its waters. Greenpeace says the 1,000 tons of asbestos used as fire retardant in the ship make her an environmental hazard.
However, the Project Dubai team say the asbestos is only a hazard if the ship is broken up. Under their plans, the liner would be professional decontaminated by asbestos experts who would either seal the asbestos safely inside a rubberized 'case' or where it must be removed, have it dealt with using the 'highest international standards for decontamination'. The boat would then be completely refitted and then towed to a permanent mooring in Dubai to start its new life as a hotel, conference center and tourist attraction.
Project Dubai investors have persuaded the new owners of the ssNorway, a Liberian shell company called Bridgend Shipping and a consortium of Indian breakers called Haryana Steel, to meet with them to discuss selling the liner and saving her from the scrapheap.
In the meantime, the Norway has been renamed the 'Blue Lady' for her last voyage, which began on June 14 in Fujairah, where she apparently took on new crew and supplies before setting off for India.
The ssNorway/Blue Lady will not be allowed to dock in India until a government inspection has been carried out to assess the extent of the asbestos in the ship. In the meantime, the liner is sitting approximately 100 miles off the coast waiting to hear if she will be scrapped or saved.
Project Dubai investors are now urgently trying to conclude a rescue deal. The Khaleej Times understands Project Dubai offers would give the Indian breakers around a $3 million profit for not scrapping the vessel.
“The Project Dubai goal is to meet a favorable price and terms and conditions that leave everyone happy," said Voet. “We are optimistic of reaching an agreement that leaves everyone happy."
Voet said in selecting and drafting the business plan for Project Dubai, the investors had followed Vice President and Prime Minister Muhammad bin Rashid al-Maktum's vision for creating quality venues and attractions in Dubai to attract high quality, international visitors.

We thank Simon Cooper of Khaleej Times for his ongoing support of our effort to save the Great SS France / Norway

Reuben Goossens

dom
6th July 2006, 08:40
a khaleej times 6/jul.06 scruntiny exclusive
the ship breaking consortium hoping to scrap the former ss norway is facing a growing list of woes in india where the ship is anchored
the khaieej times has learnt that haryana, and the liberian shell co.bridgend shipping,which currently controls the ship,are facing mounting legal,financial, and contractual problems in their bid to scrapthe liner.
the region is under a torrential deluge which is creating swells of up to 8 metres and wind speeds up to 40knts.
souces connected to the tug operaters currently towing the vessle have aid they will refuse to beach the liner without a valid court order
such is the concern over the safety of the ship that the liners insurers are threatening to withdraw cover unless the liner is moved away from india to safer waters.
loss of insurance would invalidate the 19.3million$ promissory note haryana have used to stake claim to the liner

R58484956
6th July 2006, 09:45
A warm welcome Reuben to the site enjoy it and all it has to offer,very interesting news on "Blue Lady" Thank you.

Paul UK
6th July 2006, 10:23
a khaleej times 6/jul.06 scruntiny exclusive
the ship breaking consortium hoping to scrap the former ss norway is facing a growing list of woes in india where the ship is anchored
the khaieej times has learnt that haryana, and the liberian shell co.bridgend shipping,which currently controls the ship,are facing mounting legal,financial, and contractual problems in their bid to scrapthe liner.
the region is under a torrential deluge which is creating swells of up to 8 metres and wind speeds up to 40knts.
souces connected to the tug operaters currently towing the vessle have aid they will refuse to beach the liner without a valid court order
such is the concern over the safety of the ship that the liners insurers are threatening to withdraw cover unless the liner is moved away from india to safer waters.
loss of insurance would invalidate the 19.3million$ promissory note haryana have used to stake claim to the liner


Dom

this is interesting but if a storm happend to push the ship on to the beach at Alang would it not then be a case of breaking her in situ, or am I being a cynic.

Paul

dom
6th July 2006, 11:41
paul,maybe thats what everyone want to happen thats the end pf the problem, dom


sometimes i sits and thinks and sometimes i just sits

Paul UK
6th July 2006, 11:47
Well it would not be the first time that "nature " has taken the hand

Paul

Paul UK
6th July 2006, 11:55
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5153314.stm

Item on BBC news today

Paul

dom
6th July 2006, 12:18
a lot of toing and froing going on,the report i took my last post from went on to say
the supreme court, which must reveiw the inspection committie's report before making a decision on whether to allow the liner to be beached at alang,is not schedulled to sit untill july 30 at the earlest,making it almost impossible for the breakers to meet their contractual deadlines.
the haryana source said the breakers were facing costs of up to $100,000 per dayto keep the ship where it is.
take also into the fact that the breakers need the ship to keep the industry going,politics, local govt.storms ,anything could happen,and if dubai has the money?

Paul UK
7th July 2006, 19:45
http://www.ssmaritime.com/newsupdates2.htm#_News_Updates

Try this address loads of up to date info

Paul

Paul UK
8th July 2006, 12:50
I am sure many of you have been following the Norway saga unfold over the past year. However, may I suggest that you visit http://www.ssmaritime.com/newsupdates2.htm on a daily basis, as when it happens, I will have it online. I am closely involved with the company Bleu Ribband/Gulf Desert LLC, who are currently negotiating with the ships owners. In order to find out more, I have placed Simon Cooper’s first article which covers it adequately.

Reuben Goossens
Maritime Historian, Author & Lecturer
ssMaritime.com

Dubai bid to save historic cruise liner
Scrutiny Special Report
A GROUP of Dubai investors have launched an ambitious plan to save the ssNorway, considered along with the QE2 to be the last of the great cruise liners, from Indian breakers who plan to scrap the vessel within the next two weeks.
‘Project Dubai', as it has been dubbed, is a $100-120 million plan that would see the liner snatched from the breakers and transformed into a luxury floating hotel and conference center moored in the city's harbour.
A joint UAE/US venture company called Gulf Desert LLC/Bleu Ribband has been established to negotiate with the liner's current owners and operators, who are towing the 1,000 foot-long passenger vessel to Alang, India, home of the world's largest ship-breaking yard.
John Voet, one of the U.S. partners, says the Dubai group had high hopes of buying the ship before wreaking crews start to tear her apart. Voet said the ship would be a 'fantastic commercial venture' for Dubai, that would eventually provide hundreds of new, much-needed hotel rooms as well as adding a significant cultural and historical asset to the city.
Marine historian Rueben Goossens, who started an online campaign to save the liner, said Project Dubai' would add 'yet another structure of great prestige to one of the great cities of the world.' Goossens said he had received 3,000 emails from people supporting the plan. “80 per cent of the people who have written to me say they will visit Dubai and stay on the ssNorway," Goossens added.
The fate of the ssNorway has been at the center of a growing controversy that has seen environmental groups and marine preservation organizations at war with the ship's owners, Malaysian-based Star Cruises.
Originally launched in May1960 as the French 'national vessel', the then named ssFrance was the longest transatlantic passenger ship in the world and arguably the most luxurious. The ship featured 1,200 cabins, two 800 and 900 seat restaurants, two swimming pools and a two-tier, 748 seat theatre. Move star Cary Grant and painter Salvador Dali often
vacationed on the ship. Even the Mona Lisa has been a passenger: the great painting was transported on the liner when France briefly lent Da Vinci's masterpiece to a US exhibition.
The liner was sold in 1979 to Norwegian Cruise Lines, who renamed her the ssNorway. She then spent the next 25 years cruising the Caribbean. But in 2003 a devastating boiler room explosion killed eight crew members while the ssNorway was docked in Miami.
After being towed to Germany for repairs, NCL's chief executive appeared to do a U-turn announcing the ssNorway would never sail again. The ship was towed to Malaysia where she floated until she was bought for scrapping in Bangladesh.
But, after a vociferous campaign by the environmental group Greenpeace, which branded the ssNorway as one of the world's 50 most 'toxic' ships, this February the Bangladeshi government refused to let the liner enter its waters. Greenpeace says the 1,000 tons of asbestos used as fire retardant in the ship make her an environmental hazard.
However, the Project Dubai team say the asbestos is only a hazard if the ship is broken up. Under their plans, the liner would be professional decontaminated by asbestos experts who would either seal the asbestos safely inside a rubberized 'case' or where it must be removed, have it dealt with using the 'highest international standards for decontamination'. The boat would then be completely refitted and then towed to a permanent mooring in Dubai to start its new life as a hotel, conference center and tourist attraction.
Project Dubai investors have persuaded the new owners of the ssNorway, a Liberian shell company called Bridgend Shipping and a consortium of Indian breakers called Haryana Steel, to meet with them to discuss selling the liner and saving her from the scrapheap.
In the meantime, the Norway has been renamed the 'Blue Lady' for her last voyage, which began on June 14 in Fujairah, where she apparently took on new crew and supplies before setting off for India.
The ssNorway/Blue Lady will not be allowed to dock in India until a government inspection has been carried out to assess the extent of the asbestos in the ship. In the meantime, the liner is sitting approximately 100 miles off the coast waiting to hear if she will be scrapped or saved.
Project Dubai investors are now urgently trying to conclude a rescue deal. The Khaleej Times understands Project Dubai offers would give the Indian breakers around a $3 million profit for not scrapping the vessel.
“The Project Dubai goal is to meet a favorable price and terms and conditions that leave everyone happy," said Voet. “We are optimistic of reaching an agreement that leaves everyone happy."
Voet said in selecting and drafting the business plan for Project Dubai, the investors had followed Vice President and Prime Minister Muhammad bin Rashid al-Maktum's vision for creating quality venues and attractions in Dubai to attract high quality, international visitors.

We thank Simon Cooper of Khaleej Times for his ongoing support of our effort to save the Great SS France / Norway

Reuben Goossens

Reuben see address in my comment "14" of this string it appears Blue Lady was sold with the condition of no further commercial use only for scrap.

Paul

rushie
19th July 2006, 19:17
From the Daily Star....obviously not the UK version...

Oil tanker Shourabh's fate to be decided tomorrow
Rafiq Hasan

The fate of public oil tanker Banglar Shourabh, which caught fire last month at the outer anchorage of Chittagong port, is likely to be decided tomorrow whether it will be repaired or scrapped.

State Minister for Shipping M Quamrul Islam is scheduled to visit Chittagong tomorrow to give the final decision about the wrecked tanker, according to sources.


Shipping Secretary Rafiqul Islam and other high officials of the ministry will accompany the minister and hold a meeting in Chittagong, the sources added.


The BSC oil tanker was procured 25 years back at a cost of Tk 50 crore. The oil tanker caught fire at Charley (C) point of the outer anchorage of Chittagong port on July 24.


"We will try our best to repair the ship and make it operative again," Quamrul Islam told The Daily Star. He said before making the final decision the government will examine all the investigation reports submitted by committees formed after the tragic fire incident.


Two investigation committees formed by the ministry and Bangladesh Shipping Corporation (BSC) already submitted its report to the government.


Another expert committee formed with teachers of Bangladesh University of Engineering and Technology (BUET) is likely to submit its report today. The members of the BUET expert committee visited the ship, committee sources said.


The investigation committees formed by the ministry and the BSC expressed almost similar views regarding the causes behind the fire. The committee observed violation of international regulations and handling of equipment by unskilled operators were to blame for the accident.


They suspect while cleaning the ship's tanks, sparks from the electric blower might have caused the fire and explosion which killed three people on board.

The BSC probe committee has already submitted its report. The three-member committee headed by General Manger [workshop] Saidullah found gross irregularities in recruiting people by a section of BSC officials.

The committee found the BSC officials tampered the certificate of nautical cadet Mehdi Hasan who died in the accident. He had no tanker endorse certificate, which is necessary for working on an oil tanker, the report said.

Besides, there was another minor accident at the ship around 12 hours before the huge accident. The BSC authorities ignored the minor accident, the probe committee found, according to sources.

The experts observed the repairing of the ship would be cost effective only if it is done in the country. Otherwise, if the ship is repaired abroad it might not be so cost effective, the source pointed out.


The BSC had only two oil tankers, Banglar Shourabh and Banglar Joyti, in its 13-ship fleet. The Banglar Shourabh was used for lightering purposes like carrying oil from mother vessels anchored at deep sea.

Rushie

dom
20th July 2006, 08:32
the anxiously awaited report demanded by Inidia's Supreme Court has now been submitted by the court appointed committee.
the inspection team consisted of a 15 member team from the central polution control board,and the National Instute of Occ.Health,and G.M.B.
it took five days to compile while the ship remained at anchor off pipavay port,and was compleated July 12th
new of the reports contents remain sealed
it is reported that if the ship get the go ahead from the court,Blue Lady will be beached at yard no.V-4,owned by Ravjiv Renival of Haryana ship demolitions Pvt., at alang to be desmantled

rushie
20th July 2006, 08:36
She'd be better off being used to evacuate people from Lebanon.!

Rushie

dom
31st July 2006, 11:21
it seems that the SS Blue Lady will be broken up after all,from the Times on line
An offical repoty seen by the Times concludes that the ship,now at anchor of the coast of India should be allowed.
the report,by a goverment appointed inspection team rules that the SS France is fit for dismantling,dispite the presence of significant amounts of abestos
it concludes "no other hazardous material of any kind or quantity was found that cannot be safely removed,handled and desposed of at Alang
to-day the Blue Lady is rusting and without propulsion after an explosion in he boiler room three years ago

Mark Taxis
4th August 2006, 08:28
Latest news from SS maritime
BLUE LADY Gets Green Light
August 1: Press from India states that BLUE LADY (ex FRANCE, NORWAY) will be broken at Alang after the Supreme Court Technical Committee granted Gujarat Maritime Board (GMB) permission to beach the ship tomorrow.

rushie
4th August 2006, 12:56
From TimesNow.tv

Blue Lady to dock on Indian shores

The Blue Lady, a Norwegian passenger liner, and the Clemenceau, a French aircraft carrier, charted the same course to controversy — they both had high amounts of toxic asbestos on board. But while the latter was ordered back to French shores in February this year, the Blue Lady will make its way to Indian shores in the next few days. The Norwegian ship received the green signal from the SC, and is slated to be dismantled at the Alang shipyard in Gujarat.

The ship comes insulated with about 500 tonnes of asbestos, the dust of which is hazardous to health. But the Supreme Court has justified its decision on two grounds, i.e., the ship might get damaged on the high seas during the monsoon and the 13 Indian crew members on board would starve if ship was not allowed in.

Though the impending arrival of the ship is bad news for environmental groups, it does bring some benefits to the Alang shipyard. Her arrival will mean revenues of Rs 25 crore for the State and Central Governments, which will help re-establish the potential of Alang, says the GM of company that has bought the Blue Lady. Employment, both direct and indirect, will also get a boost, he added.


Addressing the environmental concerns over the project, Chief Nautical Officer of the Gujarat Maritime Board, Captain S C Mathur, said, "A letter from the Ministry of Environment dated August 1, has indicated to us that whatever hazardous waste is likely to be generated from Blue Lady can be handled in an environmentally friendly manner at Alang. So the beaching permission can be given."

Rushie

david
7th August 2006, 00:19
Rushie,
It certainly looks like the end.
As we say downunder.."Roll over Red Rover, it's all over"
Sad day but inevitible under the circumstances.
Never had a chance of being saved, too little, too late.
David D. :@

dom
8th August 2006, 09:29
high level sources say that the inspection committee on blue lady was under intence pressure to give clearance to the vessel for beaching.
*******
the source admitted that alang does not have the capacity to handle any of the toxic substance known to be present in blue lady
*****
beaching permission which has been granted is illegal on three counts.
1the supreme court allowed the vessel entry on humanitarian grounds,not fo beaching with no equity on the owners.this permission was in pursuance of a submission made by haryana ship demolitions Pvt Ltd.but the permission has been given to a new outfit called Priya Blue shipping Pvt Ltd,this is in voilation of the court order
2ndly,even this permission has been by a technical committee whose term had expired on the 31st july2006
3rd the committee was supposed to submit its report to the court.the court is yet to hear the leagal arguments
it is now quite manifest that the courts directions have been violated and the relevant rule of law with regard to hazardous waste has been flouted

Thamesphil
8th August 2006, 12:42
high level sources say that the inspection committee on blue lady was under intence pressure to give clearance to the vessel for beaching.
*******
the source admitted that alang does not have the capacity to handle any of the toxic substance known to be present in blue lady
*****
beaching permission which has been granted is illegal on three counts.
1the supreme court allowed the vessel entry on humanitarian grounds,not fo beaching with no equity on the owners.this permission was in pursuance of a submission made by haryana ship demolitions Pvt Ltd.but the permission has been given to a new outfit called Priya Blue shipping Pvt Ltd,this is in voilation of the court order
2ndly,even this permission has been by a technical committee whose term had expired on the 31st july2006
3rd the committee was supposed to submit its report to the court.the court is yet to hear the leagal arguments
it is now quite manifest that the courts directions have been violated and the relevant rule of law with regard to hazardous waste has been flouted


High level sources? For one, Alang DOES have the capability to handle toxic substances safely and effectively.

Obviously more lies, propaganda and s**t stirring from the odious green brigade.

Phil

Paul UK
15th August 2006, 09:27
Maritime Matters report that the Blue Lady was run up on the beach this morning.

Yet to be confirmed

Paul

Thamesphil
15th August 2006, 11:13
According to local agents at Alang, she is still waiting off the coast as of this morning. Other local sources have also reported at the weekend strong currents in the area which had prevented the tugs from beaching her last week.

Phil

Paul UK
15th August 2006, 14:35
Hi Phil

Reports I,ve seen said 7.30am today but I assume India time and I have no idea what that is.

The report I feel is from a site in Australia so we might find out more tommorow.

Paul

Thamesphil
15th August 2006, 16:28
Hi Phil

Reports I,ve seen said 7.30am today but I assume India time and I have no idea what that is.

The report I feel is from a site in Australia so we might find out more tommorow.

Paul

Yes, it could be to do with the time difference. I get an Alang port report emailed here every day. It usually arrives in the morning, so let's see what tomorrow's report says.

Phil

Mark Taxis
15th August 2006, 18:58
This is a cutting from an indian newspaper

AHMEDABAD: Norwegian cruiseliner the 'Blue Lady' on Tuesday beached for dismantling at the Alang shipbreaking yard in Bhavnagar after recently getting the go-ahead from the Supreme Court.

The beaching was permitted after the cruiseliner, also known as the SS Norway, underwent a thorough inspection by a team of experts appointed by the apex court last week after environmentalists said that it contained tonnes of harmful asbestos.

Confirming that the cruiseliner had beached at Alang, the port officer Anil Rathore said, "The Blue Lady has beached today in plot No V1 after completing all formalities required. It should be ready for dismantling in a month's time."

Blue lady, that stands 315 meters tall and is almost 11 storeyed, got a green signal to beach on July 15 after the Supreme Court-appointed committee inspected it for five days and submitted a report to it.

The team comprised 15 members of the Gujarat Pollution Control Board (GPCB), National Institute of Occupational Health (NIOH) and Gujarat Maritime Board (GMB).

On entering Indian seas on July 10 it was docked at Pipavav port in Kutch district till clearance from the experts committee.

The cruiseliner made its way into Alang after it was turned away from the Bangladesh Shipbreaking yard following protest by environmentalists who complained that it contained toxic asbestos that could harm the numerous workers involved in ship breaking.

David Wilcockson
15th August 2006, 22:06
http://www.ssmaritime.com/newsupdates2.htm
Check out this site for update.
David

Thamesphil
16th August 2006, 09:06
And today's Alang port position confirms that she was beached yesterday (15/8).

Phil

Peter Eccleson
16th August 2006, 09:16
All

The latest from the ss Maritime webpage indicates that the campaign to save the former classic liner ss Norway (ss France) has failed and that she has been beached at shipbreakers in Alang India to await the cutting torches!
The near-last of the great trans-Atlantic liners - just QE2 and remaining in service.
Take a look at the ssmaitime website..... it was a worthwhile campaign. However, I just can't belive the narrow minded individuals who have condemned the efforts of the campaigners to save the ship. It beggars belief.
Let us at least hope that no poor underpaid, underfed workers die in the destruction of this great old lady! R.I.P France. (Night)

Check out 'Shipbreakers thread' and http://www.ssmaritime.com/newsupdates2.htm

cockerhoop
16th August 2006, 10:18
While i think the project Dubia battled admirably to save the Blue Lady, i can't help thinking that a lack of interest from France, contributed to her demise. Had the French nation got together and wanted there old flag ship saving i think it would have happened, but i guess 25 years as the much altered Norway, dampened their entusiasum. We lost our old queens because not a lot was done in the UK to save them, it will be interesting to see what happens to QE2 in coming years, as she will be 40 years old before the decade is out.

Paul UK
16th August 2006, 11:02
I wonder if she will put up a fight like Canberra did when she was nearly the down fall of the breakers because she was built so well it took ages to break her.

Paul

Ps Please remember SS United States and SS Independence are owned by Star Cruises I hope the same fate is not in store for these, as I understand it they needed to be purchased to allow NCL America to be born .

Now that NCL America is operating have these out lived there use, any of our US members please comment.

rushie
16th August 2006, 11:27
From the BBC -

'Toxic ship' docks in Indian port

The Blue Lady was once the pride of the French shipping industry
A controversial asbestos-lined former ocean liner, The Blue Lady, has docked in the western Indian port of Alang in Gujarat State to be scrapped.
Port officer Anil Rathore told Press Trust of India that the ship known in its glory days as the SS France would be broken in a month's time.

Indian Supreme Court experts earlier cleared its entry for breaking.

Environmentalists have protested against the ship's entry, saying it contains asbestos and toxic waste.

'Pressure for clearance'

The 11-storey, 315-metre-long, liner, which was relaunched as the SS Norway after leaving French service in the 1970s, entered Indian waters in July.

For a French person, scrapping le France is like dismantling the Tower of London for a Briton

Jean Philippe Prieur
Spokesman for campaign to save the SS France


Surreal times on the France

"The Blue Lady has beached today [Tuesday] after completing all formalities required," Mr Rathore said.

"It should be ready for dismantling in a month's time."

Environmental groups say the ship contains 1,200 tonnes of cancer-causing toxic waste, which the workers at Alang - the world's biggest breaking yard - are not equipped to handle.

Greenpeace alleges that the court experts were "under intense pressure to give clearance to the vessel for beaching".

The liner was the pride of the French shipping industry and many ship-lovers and ecologists proposed to convert it into a floating hotel or a museum.

Artist Salvador Dali and pop star David Bowie have been among its celebrity passengers.

In February, the French government recalled the decommissioned aircraft carrier Clemenceau en route to Alang, after a lengthy campaign by Greenpeace and other environmental groups.

Rushie

Paul UK
16th August 2006, 11:53
High level sources? For one, Alang DOES have the capability to handle toxic substances safely and effectively.

Obviously more lies, propaganda and s**t stirring from the odious green brigade.

Phil

Hi Phil

I saw a program three weeks ago on sky were they filmed a young guy who works at alang, although green peace gave an interview it was not by them.

The guy was about 21 or so looking after his terminally ill uncle (former worker) dying from a chest complaint and the workers have a saying "a ship a day a life a day".

They were burning waste oil on the beach and had bare foot woman unloading re useable items from the ships, local doctors say that the fumes the men breath in is like smoking 80/100 a day 7 days a week.

They have no running water or sanitation I must ask the question that if they can not provide basic amenities for the workers why would they worry about safe working practices.

I just dont know what to belive, but would like to find out the truth.

I,m not part of the Green Brigade (apart from putting my cans and bottles out once a week) but I do value human life and their existance seemed wretched even the senior cutters, one even tells his wife not to cook the dinner until he gets home just in case he gets killed.

Ps I think the programme was "Most Dangerous Jobs in world" part of the Cheating Death Series.

Paul

ruud
16th August 2006, 12:18
Ahoy,


R.I.P.
http://media.putfile.com/le-France-44 (http://media.putfile.com/le-France-44)

andysk
16th August 2006, 13:48
From the BBC -

'Toxic ship' docks in Indian port

.

Rushie

Hi Rushie ...

What is the URL of this BBC report ?

Cheers

Andy

benjidog
16th August 2006, 15:30
At the request of all the Moderators can you please use this thread for all further postings about the fate of this ship as requested in the members notice board forum.

Many thanks!

Regards,

Brian

Knut
16th August 2006, 22:27
A sad day for all of us.
Knut.

rushie
16th August 2006, 23:20
From the Alang Daily Press -

"Safety is our motto" reads this welcome sign at Alang, a statement heavily criticizedAlang is a coastal town in the State of Gujarat in India. It is a centre of the ship breaking and recycling industry. Close to 99% of the materials from the ship are recycled.

The shipyards at Alang recycle about 50% of the ships salvaged in the world. The yards are located on the Gulf of Khambat, 50 kilometres southeast of Bhavnagar. Visiting Westerners complain that before shipbreaking began there in June 1983 the beach at Alang was pristine and unspoiled. However, locals say that the work means the difference between an early death from starvation and a reasonably paid job by local standards with a steady income that can be used to support their families.

Large supertankers, car ferries and container ships are beached during high tide, and as the tide recedes, hundreds of manual laborers dismantle each ship, salvaging what they can, and reducing the rest into scrap. Tens of thousands of low-paid jobs are supported by this activity, and millions of tons of steel are recovered.

The salvage yards at Alang have generated controversy about working conditions, workers' living conditions, and the impact on the environment. One major problem is that despite many serious work-related injuries, the nearest full service hospital is 50 kilometres away in Bhavnagar. Alang itself is served by a small Red Cross hospital which offers only limited services.

A shipyard at Alang is possibly the model for the shipyard described in the Iain Banks novel, The Business (1999). A documentary on the industry in Alang entitled Shipbreakers was produced by Michael Kot in 2004.

A more modern and safer ship-breaking yard is located nearby at Pipavav.

In January 2006 Alang became the center of an international controversy when the Supreme Court of India temporarily prohibited the French ship Clemenceau from entering the port.

Well here we are...at last...nothing apart from what we all expected....

When I first started to post threads on this particular issue, I was amazed that some of the members had a go at me for including the mention of Health & Safety...in India...???!!!!! Well here we are..shes on the beach....and it'll be interesting to hear how many die scrapping her...cynic...no...not me....

What another sad loss fo Maritime history.

A fine , majestic ship....

Rushie

rushie
16th August 2006, 23:47
Fom the diaries of Mark Moxon - an inependent writer...who experienced Alang as it is -

Wrecker's yards, where cars go to die, are sad places. With twin headlights, a grinning radiator grille and a smiling curve to the bumper, your average car looks human, whether it's the frog-eyed bewilderment of the VW Beetle, the blockheaded bouncer look of the Volvo, the cute innocence of the Mini or the slit-eyed sophistication of the Ferrari. Stacks of rusting and half-dismantled cars look depressing because we personify them, subconsciously succumbing to images of retirement homes, mass graves and the inevitability of death. I should know: I spent plenty of time in Australia searching for bits to make my car, Oz, king of the road.

What about ships, though? With their proud bows and blunt sterns they're hard to associate with living creatures, let alone humans. Ships are sleek and ships are always female, but despite man's long history of glorifying and waxing lyrical about boats and the sea, from The Rime of the Ancient Mariner to The Old Man and the Sea, they're less human than vessel. The only personality I associated with Zeke – the yacht in which I sailed to French Polynesia – was that of gaoler, and despite the curves of the QE II and the gushing success of Titanic, ships aren't people, they're machines: that's why Herbie and Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang were cars, not boats.

There is greenery in Alang, just not much
But try telling that to someone who visits Alang. Stretching along the west coast of the Gulf of Camray some 50km southeast of Bhavnagar, Alang is the biggest ship-breaking yard in the world, and it has to be seen to be believed. Official statistics are hard to come by where Alang is concerned, not just because of the tendency of the locals to make things up, but because Alang has been the centre of human rights issues for some time and the government is more than a little sensitive about the whole thing.

However, gleaning what information I could from the local chai shop owners, I discovered the following: Alang consists of 400 breaker's yards (known as platforms) where somewhere between 20,000 and 40,000 workers dismantle ships by hand. An average ship has 300 people working on it at any one time, who take two months to break the ship down completely. The whole complex breaks about 1500 ships per year, and when I say 'ships' I mean everything from supertankers and war ships to car ferries and container ships. The statistics are impressive.

Getting to Alang

Nothing is wasted in Alang; absolutely everything is salvaged and sold off
Because the working conditions are appalling and safety levels are laughably non-existent, Alang is a major draw for the poor of India who are desperate for a job, any job. People from Orissa and Bihar, two of the poorest states, make up a large percentage of the workers, but there are people from everywhere from Tamil Nadu to Nepal. I was waiting for the bus in Bhavnagar on the morning of Sunday 7th June – I took the phrase 'it's difficult to reach by bus, so take a taxi for the day' in my guidebook as a personal challenge, especially as there were four or five buses each way per day – and while I was trying to work out the bus timetable a sadhu wandered up to me, saffron clad and clutching a bag and a plastic container half full of what looked like month-old yoghurt. 'Where are you going?' he asked.

'Alang,' I replied. 'To see the ships.'

Ships queuing up to be broken down
'So am I,' he said. 'I'm going to start work there.'

We chatted for a bit – his English was pretty good – and eventually the right bus pulled in and we hopped on. An hour and a half later we were sipping chai1 in Alang, looking out over the platforms where the ships lay in various stages of disarray.

The word 'platform' when applied to Alang is a euphemism: the platforms are simply beach. When a new ship is about to be broken up, the beach in the relevant yard is totally cleaned, even down to the last nut and bolt (nothing is wasted in this recycling operation), and then the ship is driven straight at the beach at breakneck speed so that it quite literally beaches itself. This part is finely tuned and has been done so many times that the ships are rarely more than a few metres off the desired position, which is a relief when you think of what would happen if they applied Indian bus logic to beaching a supertanker.

Mighty supertankers are rammed into the beach and ripped apart bit by bit
Alang is a suitable place for such crazy antics because it has a pretty eccentric tidal system. The tide is high only twice a month, which is when the sea covers the yards and new ships are beached; then for two weeks at a time the tide recedes, leaving the ships out of the water and easy to work on. And what work it is: everything that is detachable that can be sold is removed from the inside, all the engines are gutted and removed and then the ship's body itself is dismantled, chunk by chunk. The road into town is lined with large warehouses stacked high with doors, lathes, engine parts, beds, entire kitchen ranges, life jackets and plenty of other salvaged jetsam: you name it, if you can find it on a ship then you can buy it cheap in Alang. Most of the bits are trucked straight out to customers, but there's plenty left over for the high street stores.

The ships are stripped by working from one end to the other
The sight of a beached ship with half its front removed is both awesome and gruesome, because despite the lack of humanity in a fully intact ship, when it's sitting there with its guts hanging out it's hard not to pity the poor thing. It might be pity in the sense that we pity moth-eaten teddy bears or unlucky cartoon characters, but the sheer immensity of the beasts makes such pity harrowing.

I saw destroyers losing their final battle against the blow torch and hacksaw, I saw container ships sagging into the sand as the P&O signs were pulled down, I saw roll-on roll-off ferries rolling over and dying: even without an obvious face to each ship, it was slightly funereal.

The workers' houses are extremely close to the shipyards
But the appeal of Alang is also scientific. The whole place is like a huge, lifelike book of cross-section drawings, a real-life lesson in how the engines fit into a supertanker, how those millions of air vents and electricity conduits mesh together inside the hull of a navy ship, and how much of a ship is crammed with gear and how much is just empty space. In the West we are familiar with yards that make ships but not those that break them, and you don't make a ship from bow to stern, you make it in parts: the hull is built first, then the structural innards, and then the pleasantries of furnishing. In Alang it's a horizontal destruction irrespective of what order the insides were put in, and as such it's a unique sight.

Visit to the Ashram

The head of the Gopnath ashram (left) posing with his right-hand man
I was impressed by the view from the chai shop, but what I really wanted to do was to get inside a yard and nose around: I wasn't stupid enough to want to climb around on a half-deconstructed ship, but some close-up views would have been great. My new-found friend said there would be plenty of time to worry about getting permission from the Port Officer later: first, it was time to visit his ashram.

This was an opportunity too good to miss. I've managed to avoid India's ashrams totally so far, and the thought of seeing one in such a godforsaken place as Alang was intriguing. We tootled along the road, past yard after yard and ship after ship, and soon ended up at the Siva ashram of the Gopnath Temple, a ramshackle but friendly complex surrounding yet another Hindu temple tucked away from the main coast road. Inside were other sadhus sitting cross-legged on some mats, and so we joined them.

I've often wondered what makes sadhus tick, and my visit to Gopnath confirmed my suspicions: they're a bunch of stoners. The man who was introduced to me as the big cheese at Gopnath ashram was puffing away on a chillum packed with charas (that's a pipe packed with marijuana), and as we rolled up he offered it to me.

A doorman guarding his platform
I declined because it was obvious that Alang was going to be fascinating enough without chemical aid and I didn't want to get memory loss, but he packed another one and passed it round the circle, everybody inhaling right down to their toes except for me and a couple of guys who were having their palms read.

Five minutes later they were buggered but very hospitable, inviting me to dinner that night (which I also declined because I'd be back in Bhavnagar) and letting me take their pictures, as long as I promised to send them copies (which I did). But I wanted to see the ships, so I said goodbye to my now inert friend, who had decided to put off his job-hunting until four o'clock (though, come to think of it, he didn't say which day), and strolled back to the surf.

The Yards of Alang

The yards are strewn with bits of ship as far as the eye can see
I had previously met a few westerners who had visited Alang, and their advice had been not only to avoid taking pictures, but to leave my camera at home: unauthorised photography was not tolerated and would result in the removal of your film and undoubtedly a big baksheesh bill. I'd brought my camera anyway, and was mighty glad that I had: possibly the fact that it was Sunday made a difference, or the fact that it was high tide and the ships were being smacked by waves, but there were no workers to be seen, just a few lazing gate keepers, and quite a few of them let me in to wander among the guts of ships from all over the world. Only one of them asked for anything – two Cokes, which I didn't bother to buy him seeing as lots of other places weren't asking for a thing – and another bloke took a fancy to my biro (which he duly pinched) but there were no officials, no baksheesh issues and no problems with taking photos.


Bit by bit, even the biggest ships disappear
So I took 'em. The hotel man would later say that I had been very lucky being able to take photos – most tourists are apparently stopped and denied permission – and I would later meet a woman who had been accosted by a policeman with no badge, no gun and no proof of status except for his uniform (which looked suspiciously like a bus conductor's) who tried to charge her for her camera. I was lucky indeed: my experience was far from negative.

The yards were surprisingly clean: I had imagined oil slicks three feet deep and piles of rusting metal clogging up the environment. In reality the sea was fairly blue (inevitably it's not going to be mineral water round a ship breaking yard) and the beach was recognisable as sand, though I recalled that most of the objections to Alang from the international community were over working conditions rather than environmental concerns. Whatever the case, it's a good example of western hypocrisy because the ships keep coming, whatever the issues; dozens of ships were floating offshore, waiting their turn, looking well-used and battered in the way that only old ships can. For a fleeting moment I thought of homes for the elderly and waiting for God, but only for a moment. Ships aren't human, OK?

Cricket Among the Ships

Chatting with the wonderfully friendly people of Alang
The inhabitants of Alang are, though, and they're also incredibly friendly. As I wandered past the yards and admired the workers' slums leaning against each other, I smiled and got smiles back, I wobbled my head and got wobbling heads in return, and I waved and got raised palms for my trouble. And halfway back to the bus stand I came across a handful of boys playing cricket across the main road – steadfastly ignoring trucks and cycles as they turfed up the wicket – and they insisted that I join in.

I must have played for a good hour, batting and bowling my way into the history books. I was wearing my bush hat so I became 'Shane Warne' to the locals, and one of the boys who was a pretty good batsman became 'Sachin Tendulkar'. We drew a crowd and I drew on skills not used since school, but eventually it drew to an end, the heat killing my energy, ruining my spin and reminding me that I had to get back to Bhavnagar before I was stuck here forever. The people might be wonderful, but Alang isn't the sort of place you want to be stranded in.


Huge ships are rammed into the beach just yards from each other
Finally, my Bhavnagar hotel just served to underline how friendly the area is. The previous night I'd dropped my bag onto a marble table and the bloody thing had come loose from the wall, smashing on the ground and shattering; even the Rolling Stones would have been impressed by my ability to ruin a hotel room so comprehensively. I assumed the reaction would turn into a barely restrained discussion on how much I would have to pay, but what was the reaction in Bhavnagar? 'I am sorry, sir, would you like to have a different room?'

I was gobsmacked, and hardly wanted to leave.

Poor bastards....Rushie

benjidog
17th August 2006, 00:29
Rushie,

Thank you for those interesting postings. I try to keep an open mind about these things but it seems clear to me that the people in Alang cannot win. If they break these ships under dangerous conditions their health must surely be put at risk; if they don't, they say they have no means of supporting their families. We have the luxury of living in a world of plenty for all our bleatings and don't have to face that kind of harsh reality.

It also seems obvious that the governments of the world and shipping lines are only too happy to get someone to dispose of their problems at low cost. In the absence of international agreements and standards for ship breaking this situation is going to continue indefinitely whatever we may think about it.

Thamesphil,

Please don't think I am picking on you but you seem to have a different perspective and if I have understood your posts correctly you are arguing that the conditions at Alang are not as bad as people are making out. Now I know that journalists like to exaggerate, but the films I have seen of Alang make your viewpoint difficult to accept.

Do you or other members have further information that we are not aware of that makes a case for Alang being OK? If so I would like to hear it.

Brian

PS: I hope this discussion will continue in a polite vein as this must surely be one of the most controversial topics we are ever likely to discuss on SN. The debate should be about the facts and avoid personal attacks on those that have other views to our own.

Paul UK
17th August 2006, 07:14
Here Here Brian I would just be nice to know the truth without the industry finances getting in the way.

Paul

david
17th August 2006, 09:10
Rushie and Benji,
Also Hear, Hear from down under. (Applause) (Applause).
These poor bastards at Alang are probably the lowest of the low in the notorious Indian caste system.
Eking out a 5th or 6th way of existence on the bottom rung the ladder in a third world country, that at least, thank our lucky stars, is a democracy of sorts, and a feed of sorts each day.
I don't think we can judge, in this forum or anywhere else as we come from the comforts we take for granted daily, like the ability to turn on the tap and get a glass of clean drinking water!
I feel a sadness for the passing of a great vessel, the likes of which will never be seen again, with only the Queen Mary remaining. Reuben Goosens and others took the battle for preservation to a possibly wider audience, and more power to him, but at the end of the day it really comes down to the $$$, and for the Dubai Group, I believe it was just too late.
The money MAY have been there, but where were they when she was laid up all that time im Bremerhaven?
Vale France/Norway/Blue Lady.
Regards,
David D. (Cloud)

Thamesphil
17th August 2006, 09:26
Firstly, I'm wondering if anyone here has any first hand knowledge of the shipbreaking industry as it is today (not 10 or even 5 years ago). If there is anyone out there, throw your two penneth in and lets hear the true facts, rather than blindly believing the biased and inaccurarate information peddled by organisations to justify their own agendas.

I don't profess to be a total expert, but my job requires me to keep up to date with events in the ship demolition market and I do have contact with people who have witnessed shipbreaking first hand and are very knowledgeable on the subject.

Anyone who has this knowledge will tell you that Alang has cleaned up its act considerably in the past 3 years. Safety has become the latest buzzword and the Gujarat Maritime Board (GMB) has invested heavily in training programmes and safety awareness campaigns. See here http://www.gmbports.org/alang_surkmht.htm

Alang has moved on from the days of women and children carrying asbestos buckets on their heads, but the media still chooses to believe the lies that the likes of Greenpeace churn out as that makes for better headlines. As for the Sky TV programme, I never saw it. When was it made, 3-4 years ago perhaps? Even if it was more recent, the media will always manipulate and exaggerate to get a better story regardless of the truth.

Phil

Tony Breach
17th August 2006, 09:45
Shame!
Noted also references to the Big U, Independence & QE2. What about the Queen Mary (the real one)?. I understand the managing company has gone bust But I think the ship is still owned by the city of Long Beach & was only leased to Prevratil's organisation. Both Japan & China have discovered the difficulties in maintaining an old passenger ship (Oriana) based upon their earnings. The Dutch are smart, let's watch how they do with the Rotterdam & wish them all the best for success.

ListToPort
17th August 2006, 10:18
A sad day, however I can't help but think that with the two major refits, the France really disappeared under the weight of tacky cruise modifications. Maybe I'm just consoling myself, but what a great career the vessel had. It could have all ended in Taiwanese yards back in the 1970s.

At least the Rotterdam authorities showed some appreciation of Rotterdam's maritime heritage with the support for the SS Rotterdam. I can't wait to get over there when she arrives. Great city, and a great ship. I imagine little fuss will be made in the UK if the QE2 is mooted for scrapping.

Now, America. Are you to let one of the greatest liners disappear, and with it a symbol of your national pride and technological prowess?

benjidog
17th August 2006, 12:35
Phil,

Thanks for that link. The Gujurat Maritime Board certainly paints an innocuous picture. A cynic would of course say "Well they would do wouldn't they!".

You may be right that they have made improvements since those films were made. I would like to think this is the case for the sake of the people working in the industry.

Is there anyone out there who has seen the place in the last year who can provide us with a more up to date view from first hand?

Regards,

Brian

david
18th August 2006, 00:56
Brian,

One of the guys from LAX who operate the maritimematters.com site has made a video called "On the road to Alang" and extracts of how he did so can be viewed on it.
I have not checked, but I don't recall any dates.
Could be of interest maybe.

Regards
David D. (Thumb)

brianh
18th August 2006, 06:15
My first ever cruise was on SS Norway in the Spring of 1981 and I fell in love with everything about her...even my tiny cabin with bunk beds down on Atlantic Deck (A052)....It's strange how after all these years I still remember my cabin number. Actually I think I remember more of those 7 days than any cruise since. So many memories.....I remember the pleasant smell of the ship. It seemed to be from a particular brand of suntan lotion sold onboard that somehow travelled from the outer decks to the interior. Once back from the cruise I still had that lotion and everytime I opened the top of the bottle the smell of the ship came right back. She was so popular that I had to book my cruise nearly 7 months in advance and even then was only able to get one of 3 cabins left....and she was sold out through the rest of the summer. I doubt any cruise ship afloat today has that many sold out sailings that far in advance. I remember watching the performers do "Hello Dolly" in the theatre as well as laughing my butt off at Phyllis Diller at her show. The Norway was the only ship afloat that had a star on each sailing to entertain the passengers. Not even QE2 had that. She had her own Marching Band, her own TV station (WNCL) and I think I heard that she was the first cruise ship to have a TV in each cabin. I remember the 2-story drugstore "Upstairs at the Downstairs", and the disco named "A Club Called Dazzles" that you entered by using a spiral staircase from the pool area. It was the first real disco I had ever been in and as an 18 year old at the time it was the first place I actually could drink and not be underage...I felt very grown up! I remember becoming friends with one of the Norway dancers who was also 18. Her name was Tanya, from Portland, OR...She wanted me to tell her all about college life and I wanted her to tell me all about what it was like to work on this great ship! I remember dining each night in the beautiful "Windward Dining Room" and wondering if any famous people had been seated at my table when she was the France. I remember being up on deck the first night, close to midnight, and watching our funnel lights turn on and off three times as a return greeting to the Emerald Seas, Flavia, Sunward II and the Dolphin as they sailed closely past us on their way back to Miami for their Monday morning arrivals. I remember the funnels, tall and proud painted in the white, light blue and dark blue swoop design. Everynight I would take time to go outside up to the top deck to just stare at them and watch the smoke curl out of the aft fins, glowing white as it trailed back toward the wake. I had never seen so many stars in the sky in my life as I did those nights. I never expected that.
Twenty years later I went down to the port here in Miami to watch her leave and to say my goodbye as she left for her farewell trans Atlantic crossing in Sept. 2001. In the time since my Norway cruise I had grown from a boy to a middle-aged man. Seeing her always brought back the memories and left me wondering how quickly the years just seem to go by. It was a sad afternoon watching her leave but I was happy that the people of Miami gave her a dignified goodbye. Hundreds, perhaps thousands turned out to watch her go. Perhaps many were there to also say goodbye to a ship that gave them many pleasant memories. She came back of course (after 9/11 changed NCL's original plans) to continue her cruises for several more years and I saw her every so often sailing out, still proud, still beautiful.
I have read where some people say the ship was ruined when originally rebuilt by NCL back in 1980, and that becoming the Norway was a let-down from her fomer life as the France.....but the feeling I got when onboard was not that at all. She was magnificant, she was spotless and she looked and felt new. She was no longer the France in name, but the memories still lingered and it was easy to spot so many France things still in place. The Norway had the feeling of being alive...much more than any other ship I have ever sailed on. Alive and proud. Proud of her past but also proud to be the SS Norway. And that is how I will always remember her.

dom
18th August 2006, 07:14
NEW DELHIAUG 17th
indias supreme court said on thursday the 'blue lady' should not be dismantled without the courts permission.
"breaking cannot take place without our orders the court said."
"if it's done without our orders,we shall deal with it"

if its run up on the beach,how they going to pull her of

Paul UK
18th August 2006, 07:42
First Pictures of Blue Lady on the beach at Maritime Matters.

Paul

non descript
18th August 2006, 07:45
Controversial cruiseship cannot be scrapped without judges’ permission, writes Shirish Nadkarni in Mumbai
Lloyd’s List Friday August 18 2006

INDIA’S Supreme Court ruled yesterday that the controversial Norwegian cruise liner Blue Lady, formerly the Norway, should not be dismantled without express permission of the bench.
Barely two days after the 46,000 dwt cruiseship beached for demolition off the world’s largest shipbreaking yard at Alang a challenge to its entry came up in the apex court from the Non-Government Organisations’ Global Platform on Shipbreaking.
“Breaking cannot take place without our orders,” the court said when it was told the ship had been beached at Alang by Haryana Shipbreakers, which had purchased it for demolition from Star Cruises of Malaysia.
The green lobby had refused to accept the verdict of the Gujarat Maritime Board and the Gujarat Pollution Control Board that the Blue Lady was safe for demolition.
Claiming that they were not aware of any Supreme Court order permitting the beaching, and that no legal arguments on the matter had been heard, they made yet another attempt for a final ban on the ship’s demolition.
“The Blue Lady still carries more than 900 tonnes of asbestos waste and unquantified amounts of cancer-causing polychlorinated biphenyls and heavy metals, which are a serious health hazard to the poorly equipped workers at Alang,” said Gopal Krishna, India co-ordinator of the Global Platform on Shipbreaking, which represents, among others, Greenpeace.
“Where is the Supreme Court order? We have not seen it. The technical committee of the GMB and GPCB seem to have simply rushed the matter through without carrying out a thorough inspection of the hazardous materials on board the Blue Lady.
“That is why we have taken up the issue.”
The apex court had allowed the Blue Lady to enter Indian waters in June and drop anchor at Pipavav port, but had appointed an expert committee to look into how much toxic waste was on board before it could be sent to Alang for demolition.
When contacted, GMB officials conceded that, while its technical committee had cleared the cruiseship for recycling on the grounds that the hazardous materials on board were well within the permissible limits, the Supreme Court had not been officially informed of the clearance

Paul UK
18th August 2006, 11:16
http://www.maritimematters.com/shipnewspics.html

Sorry guys Pics Here

Paul

Paul UK
21st August 2006, 16:56
Now I have seen that the hull appears un damaged and the German authorites are now being lobbied as they unknowingly exported toxic materials to the third world a contravention of the EU laws, although it appears from reports that Star knew what the ultimate destination was !!.

Just think if Star the current owners are forced to refloat her and return her to Bremerhaven the cost would be enourmous, they might just sell her to the Dubai interests.

The story continues.

( Source Maritime Matters) (Read)

Thamesphil
21st August 2006, 17:14
Star cruise aren't the owners - they sold her last January whilst she was anchored off port klang

Phil

Paul UK
21st August 2006, 18:13
Hi Phil

Thats interesting I wonder were the Maritime Matters are getting their info.

Paul

fred henderson
21st August 2006, 20:11
Hi Phil

Thats interesting I wonder were the Maritime Matters are getting their info.

Paul

Greenpeace? It has all their hallmarks of misinformation and total disregard of scientific facts in favour of TV soundbites.

Fred (Cloud)

Paul UK
21st August 2006, 22:46
Hi Fred and Phil have a look at this site although the guy admits to writing articles for Maritime Matters what do you think.

Paul

http://www.ssmaritime.com/Norway-NewsUpdates-1.htm

fred henderson
21st August 2006, 23:28
Whilst it is always possible that Star "sold" Norway to a company that they owned through nominees, I will only believe it if someone comes up with some proof. Star have not owned her since January.
I feel that we should be realistic about this ship. Some of us may like the way that she looks, but it is very unlikely that she ever earned a cent in her entire life. There is no way she can be returned to service.
She could be stuffed and mounted as a hulk in Dubai, but someone would still need to remove the "toxic substances". It would not be a gang of Arabs. Far more likely to be a team of ex-patriate Indians. It is highly unlikely that the health and safety standards in Dubai would be any higher than they are in India.
It is not proven that Blue Lady contains any "toxic substances". What type of asbestos is in the ship? Despite the scam operated by the industry, white asbestos is completely harmless, it is only the other rare types that are lethal.
I feel that France/Norway/Blue Lady is at the end of her life and she should be allowed to die in peace.

Fred

Thamesphil
21st August 2006, 23:31
I'm sure this guy is well-intentioned, but he he probably just a joe public bystander getting his 'facts' from the general media and Greenpeace et al.

It was widely reported in the shipping markets that Norway was sold in January by Star Cruises to a Bangladeshi purchaser who is a traditional 'cash speculator' i.e. someone who buys ships with the intention of reselling to scrappers. I've no reason to doubt these reports.

The problem is that the general public do not understand standard shipping practices and economics and take whatever the general media and those lovely people at Greenpeace say as gospel.

Phil

dave s
22nd August 2006, 10:17
Hello all

I have been watching these postings with interest, the internet is a wonderful thing, unfortunately it is also a means of misinforming with half truths and so called facts

quote
"I'm sure this guy is well-intentioned, but he he probably just a joe public bystander getting his 'facts' from the general media and Greenpeace et al."

Not so he is an informed peron with many contacts in the industry

quote
"It was widely reported in the shipping markets that Norway was sold in January by Star Cruises to a Bangladeshi purchaser who is a traditional 'cash speculator' i.e. someone who buys ships with the intention of reselling to scrappers. I've no reason to doubt these reports."

how about no cash being forthcoming and the sale being called off. She is still on Star's books.

quote
"The problem is that the general public do not understand standard shipping practices and economics and take whatever the general media and those lovely people at Greenpeace say as gospel."

Or it could be that there are some who are party to more information and are not held back by blinkered vision. also maybe its time standard shipping practise is changed?

quote
"It is not proven that Blue Lady contains any "toxic substances". What type of asbestos is in the ship? Despite the scam operated by the industry, white asbestos is completely harmless, it is only the other rare types that are lethal."

I must remember this when I think of my father, (He spent his life at sea and within the shipping industry) after having one lung (right) removed it was completely blocked with WHITE asbestos particles (not blue or brown, WHITE) and then watching him die a long slow painfull death as his other lung ceased to function for the same reason.
All asbestos is dangerous but to a different degree, white is fine when used as lagging etc but is harmfull when disturbed and in its dust form as it enters the lungs and cannot be expelled through coughing, slowly blocking the arterial ways, blue on the other hand rips your lungs apart.

I am not someone who is adamant that France/Norway/Blue lady is saved, I would just like to see some thought given to those that scrap her, My contact at NCL says Star/Genting are still the owners and are trying to stop any further commercial use.

quote
"I feel that we should be realistic about this ship. Some of us may like the way that she looks, but it is very unlikely that she ever earned a cent in her entire life. There is no way she can be returned to service."

Not so, there are several reasons why Star brought NCL (casinos is No 1) another was that while Wind/dream/sea etc were relatively new ships,Norway always produced a profit far in excess of operating costs and subsidising the other ships, it was Star's multi restaurant dining concept that spelt the end for her with NCL as she was too costly to convert, and she did not fit in with the image the company wanted to project, also the casino take on the newer ships is much higher and trust me this is of more concern to Star than health of workers/Crew and indeed passengers!
Star's concern is that for a relatively small sum ($50M) another company could be running her in the cruise market with the customer loyalty that she has built up, as although they ran her down in recent years she still had a loyal customer base willing to travel on her, couple this with a refit/re-engine which would substantialy reduce operating costs and you have competition that could bleed passenger numbers from NCL.

It does seem odd that the scrapping of a ship should bring forth such opposed views about Greenpeace etc, just remember the court action being brought in India is by Indians, it is after all their country and if they have the welfare of their fellow countrymen and environment at heart is that such a bad thing.

Personally I have no opinion either way as to whether she is scrapped or not I just think we ought to remember that Star exported her from Bremerhaven when they shouldn't of, and then from Port Klang, both times with False information being presented to the local authorities.

And no I am not a member of Greenpeace or any other tree hugging group just someone with friends within the company at the centre of this and party to a bit more information than others.

regards

billyboy
22nd August 2006, 12:01
Dave!...well said sir!
Now, I am not an expert on anything even remotely conected with the inns and outs of the blue lady. However i did admire her on several occasions when she was "the France". to me it was sad when she became the "Norway" albeit another lease of life for her. but as the blue lady I never did appreciate this ship. Now in my humble opinion she has come to the end of her useful life as a ship persey. It seems to me that things are getting a wee bit hyped up about her. I dont remember hearing complaints about toxic waste on the thousands of other fine and worthy ships that were broken up.
How much toxic waste is on Queen mary?... the United States? admitedly they are not not on their way to the breakers (we hope). the asbestos pipe lagging on the old warships, old steam ferries,freighters and tankers, some of which was serious. nobody seemed to complain about that.
Me? I am just a simple ship lover who has a great deal of respect for ships. I have stood in boiler rooms during start up when the main stop was opened and the water hammers in the pipes caused it to literaly snow on us down below with asbestos. ask any ex RN man what hapened when his warship went into action and fired salvos. they can all tell you about boiler room snow.
not wishing to detract from any other valid points on this thread, just dipping my oar in as it was.
Look forward to reading the final episode on this one.
Shame?..yes Sad? .. yes. but it has happened hundreds of times before and it always will happen.
now, talk about preserving the Queen mary and mooring her in southampton and i am all ears gentlemen. I also look forward to hearing good news that the United States will have some kind of a future even if only used as a museum would be better than rusting alongside the wall.
Affectionatly yours, ex-bilge rat (billyboy)

fred henderson
22nd August 2006, 12:49
Firstly, may I warmly welcome you to the site Dave.

Your first post is very lucid, but I hope you will forgive me if I express a contrary view to some of your statements.

Ted Arison convinced Knut Kloster to enter the US cruise market, form Norwegian Cruise Line and create the leading cruise operator. After they fell out and parted company, Arison went his own way by forming Carnival. Kloster bought and converted France. All reports indicate that the ship was a huge white elephant and NCL went into a continuous decline, until it was on the verge of bankruptcy when bought by Star. Perhaps the Star management transformed the operating results of Norway, but with the present day cost of bunkers any steamship is an economic nightmare.

Star is quoted on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. In their report of the results for 2005, filed with the exchange in January 2006, they have under the heading "Significant Subsequent Event" a simple statement that Norway has been sold. The value of Norway appears to be removed in the March Quarter 2006 accounts. The Half Year 2006 Accounts have just been posted and there is no reference to the Norway sale having failed.

Incidently Star Group lost $69 million in the half year. Carnival made $631 million profit in the same period.

Fred

R58484956
22nd August 2006, 12:53
Welcome Dave s to the site, thank you for putting the record straight.

Thamesphil
22nd August 2006, 14:05
Star is quoted on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. In their report of the results for 2005, filed with the exchange in January 2006, they have under the heading "Significant Subsequent Event" a simple statement that Norway has been sold. The value of Norway appears to be removed in the March Quarter 2006 accounts. The Half Year 2006 Accounts have just been posted and there is no reference to the Norway sale having failed.
Fred


Fred, you took the words right out of my mouth. The sale to Bangladeshis did not fail at all. What did fail was a previous sale a few weeks earlier to Global Marketing Systems, again for onward demolition.

Why some people refuse to believe a simple, documented fact is beyond me. Talk about blinkered.

Phil

rushie
22nd August 2006, 15:39
Hi all,

For the benefit of all who have expressed an interest in this provocative issue...you can find the balance sheets of Star Cruises and NCL etc at -

www.starcruises.com

The info is contained within the press release of 15/08.

With respect to all, I can't see anything in there (including the NCL accounts) of any money being made from anything like "assets sold" etc. There isn't a mention of the old girl at all, which may be intentional...I don't know. I don't do balance sheets..!

The sites worth a look anyway. In the meantime...here's the latest from a journal called the "Toxic Trade Waste Journal" -

India Continues to Ignore International Law and own Supreme Court Order to Keep Shipbreakers in Business


15 August 2006 (New Delhi) – The former ocean liner SS Norway (recently renamed Blue Lady) has been beached at India's Alang shipbreaking yards, despite a long campaign by environmental and human rights organisations to prevent the scrapping of the ship which is thought to contain 1240 tonnes of asbestos and hundreds of tonnes of other materials contaminated with toxic persistent organic pollutants known as polychlorinated biphenyls or PCBs. It is well known that Alang does not have the facilities to properly manage these hazardous materials.
The shipbreaking yards of Alang, in Gujarat State, India are notorious for their unsafe working conditions. It has been estimated that one worker per day dies in these yards either from sudden explosions and fires from flammable residues, set off by handheld cutting torches combined with non-existent or inadequate protection for workers. Many workers - often hired by the day for cash-in-hand - also die from chronic and terminal illnesses such as asbestosis and cancers following exposure to hazardous chemicals and asbestos during the shipbreaking process.

The international Basel Convention to which India is a Party, strictly controls the movement across borders of hazardous wastes has called for a total ban on exports of these wastes from developed to developing countries. For this reason the Supreme Court of India had demanded in 2003 that all ships must be first properly inventoried, pre-cleaned and stripped of all hazardous materials prior to entry into India. However, in this case, the Supreme Court has remained quiet.

Star Cruises Ltd, the beneficial owner of the SS Blue Lady, has several times been made aware of the environmental and human rights disaster dumping the toxic vessel on Indian breaking beaches will lead to [1]. It is believed that Star Cruises Ltd knowingly circumvented the Basel Convention by first claiming the ship was not to be scrapped but rather re-used as a floating casino, meaning that technically the ship was not a waste under the law. Meanwhile the Ministry of Environment and Forests in India has seemingly ignored international law, and endorsed the rapid beaching of the ship in Alang. It is expected that the ship will generate 5.3-6.4 million dollars for the State Government from recycled steel revenue.

"The saga of the Blue Lady ends as a case of two global criminals working hand in hand to profit from poisoning the poor," said Jim Puckett of the Basel Action Network a global waste trade watchdog and spokesperson for the NGO platform. "First there’s Star Cruises that would rather poison workers in India than spend any money on asbestos and PCB abatement prior to export, and they are aided and abetted by Indian politicians, who have sold the health of their poorest constituents to the powerful Gujarat steel lobby."

The permission to beach the Blue Lady was granted reportedly on 1st August, 2006 following a cursory inspection by a Technical Committee team which was staffed by Ministry of Environment, Central Pollution Control Board, and Gujarat Maritime Board officials. The inspection team admitted the presence of PCBs and asbestos, but failed to quantify them or to identify where they are located on the ship. They further failed to address the question of whether the Alang yards had the technical capacity to manage such dangerous materials and protect their workers. Yet the conclusion of the Committee [2] was that Alang could handle all hazards found on board. The NGO Global Platform published a critique [3] of this technical committee report last week citing fatal flaws and lack of compliance with international law, but it was ignored along with the October 2003 Supreme Court order in a rush to beach the ship. The Blue Lady is the largest ship arriving for breaking in the Alang shipyards since the French aircraft carrier Clemenceau was recalled from India by France following global furor over the legality of the export.

"It is ironic that the French government realised at the last minute that the dumping of the asbestos-laden Clemenceau on India was wrong and illegal - and our own government, whose job is to protect Indians, utterly fails to do its job," said Gopal Krishna of Ban Asbestos Network India. "Despite this temporary setback, the corrupt global shipping industry and governments that allow it's illegal and immoral behaviour are increasingly seen as bearing the guilt of those hundreds of deaths in Alang and elsewhere where they send their trash to be disposed of out of sight and out of mind."

Seems more people than "tree-huggers" are concerned about this.

It should also be noted that the "toxic" ship that has laid in Amsterdam for 7 years is trying to be moved under the smokescreen of the Blue Lady for demolition in Turkey. This is also being blocked - by Turkish fishing authorities.

Cheers,

Rushie

Thamesphil
22nd August 2006, 16:54
The key fact is here http://www.starcruises.com/News/2006/Qe200504_hk.pdf

And can be seen at the top of page 16.

Phil

fred henderson
22nd August 2006, 19:46
The key fact is here http://www.starcruises.com/News/2006/Qe200504_hk.pdf

And can be seen at the top of page 16.

Phil

Also on page 13 in the note concerning Impairment Losses. These are losses that occur when a company realises that an asset has become worth less than its depreciated value in the balance sheet. In 2004 Star made a provision of $14.5 million for Norway after her boiler explosion. With the ship sold, the actual loss is now known and on page 13 Star state that this is $1.3 better than they feared. This amount is used to partially offset a new impairment loss on a catamaran that is for disposal.
There is no way that these accounting entries could be made unless the sale had been made. If the sale subsequently failed the stock exchange regulations demand that this must be disclosed at once. No such disclosure has been made.

Fred

Tony Breach
22nd August 2006, 20:03
Anyone know who is behind Star Cruises?

fred henderson
22nd August 2006, 22:46
Anyone know who is behind Star Cruises?

The Malaysian Genting Group, owners of the Genting Highlands Resorts and Casinos.

Fred

dave s
22nd August 2006, 22:54
evening all

its good to have contrary views it helps pin down the truth.

I have already seen the balance sheet and yes its states that Norway was disposed of but not where or who, and theres the rub.
I have seen other company documentation that shows Star still controls the sale and eventual destination of Norway anyone claiming to "own" Norway is only acting in an agents capacity the "sale" was to seperate the company from any enviromental pressure which the company knew it was heading for.
There is the point that if the ship is not toxic then why did the Bangladeshi's refuse her?

I wish I could say and show more but the Star is well aware that confidential information is leaking from the company and those that I know do not wish to compromise their employment.

Star is part of Genting group which also owns casinos and a large resort

regards

tom
22nd August 2006, 23:11
(Cloud)
is there any truth in the rumour the man who designed her cimmited suiside
owing to the fact she was six feet to long for the panama canal
tom

Thamesphil
23rd August 2006, 09:13
Dave S:

Until you present us with some hard and documented facts, there is absolutely no credibility in what you say. Rumourmills, gossip and malicious axe-grinding on the part of company employees are not something that I prefer to believe in.

It's also astonishing - given the above - that some people think that you have put the record straight. Maybe you could at least fill out your profile, tell us who you are, what you are, etc. This might add a little credibility to your argument, though I doubt it.

Phil

dave s
24th August 2006, 10:08
Thamesphil

3 days as a member, profile now done.
Some of the documentation is out there now and it seems some of it has been presented to the Indian courts. I have even found some copies on a website called SSmaritime this morning.
What evidence would you like on asbestosis and other lung diseases?
You seem to be an apologist for the woes and bad practises within our industry I suggest you try it on board for a while and see how different it is, I was able 2 years ago to visit Alang (awful journey) with a friend as an interpreter (still confusing with the dialect), The workers were a cheerfull bunch but I was unable to take photos due to "pressure" from security (for want of a better world). The men are happy because they can eat.
You talk of the situation being improved, interesting I saw no goggles on those cutting, no hard hats and very few with shoes let along any form of safety boot, we saw 5 men pulling a cut of sheet steel up the beach by rope and walking through oil/ sludge/tank wash or something similarly nasty, when I got bunker fuel on me as a child that burnt like hell after a while, I cant imagine it being any that different now.
Those that spoke to us said the nearest doctor was about 10 miles and as for a hospital that was 30!

I note in a previous thread that another member thought you had holidayed on the moon or saturn, I venture to suggest that it was Uranus and you have spent far too long up there.
Whether you think I have credibilty is immaterial, I have only posted my own personal experiences, you on the other hand believe what someone else sends you whilst sitting at a desk.

dundalkie
24th August 2006, 15:33
As a memento of a fabulous looking ship. Taken in Cuxhaven about two years ago. fond memories of the old gal.

Thamesphil
24th August 2006, 22:30
Thamesphil

3 days as a member, profile now done.
Some of the documentation is out there now and it seems some of it has been presented to the Indian courts. I have even found some copies on a website called SSmaritime this morning.
What evidence would you like on asbestosis and other lung diseases?



Who's talking about lung diseases? You seem to think that hearsay and gossip relating the ownership of Blue Lady is fact. Get real.

You seem to be an apologist for the woes and bad practises within our industry I suggest you try it on board for a while and see how different it is

I don't apologise for anything. Sure there are bad practises which should be stubbed out, but the vast majority of shipowners are responsible and play by the book. This 'try it on board' rubbish is always slung into arguments with non-seafarers. Sure I know nothing about shipboard ops and respect any views seagoing personnel have on that point. But why should that make you any more damn informed than me or better than me in any other way. Try learning about shipping economics. I suggest that it is you that should see the other side of the coin

, I was able 2 years ago to visit Alang (awful journey) with a friend as an interpreter (still confusing with the dialect), The workers were a cheerfull bunch but I was unable to take photos due to "pressure" from security (for want of a better world). The men are happy because they can eat.
You talk of the situation being improved, interesting I saw no goggles on those cutting, no hard hats and very few with shoes let along any form of safety boot, we saw 5 men pulling a cut of sheet steel up the beach by rope and walking through oil/ sludge/tank wash or something similarly nasty, when I got bunker fuel on me as a child that burnt like hell after a while, I cant imagine it being any that different now.

So good for you. You went to Alang and saw these atrocities. Maybe you did, maybe you are lying, I don't know. With such provocative languange and a confrontatational attitude, you obviously have an malicious and misguided agenda to denigrate the shipping industry at large. Are you sure that you don't work for Greenpeace? It proves nothing anyway, as all the improvements have been made in the last two years.


I note in a previous thread that another member thought you had holidayed on the moon or saturn, I venture to suggest that it was Uranus and you have spent far too long up there.

So you think that hurling insults is the way forward? Obviously you have run out of arguments and so have to attack the arguer. Typical of the left-wing, self-righteous morons that so permeate our society these days.


Whether you think I have credibilty is immaterial, I have only posted my own personal experiences, you on the other hand believe what someone else sends you whilst sitting at a desk.

I refer to my first point where you are relying on what the tea-boy at Star Cruises tells you. Hardly a personal experience.
[/QUOTE]

fred henderson
24th August 2006, 22:49
Dave

I am sorry. You are absolutely correct when you write that the internet enables incorrect statements to be published. I apologise for writing that white asbestos is completely harmless, when I should have written rarely harmful. I am very sorry that your father was a victim of our past lack of knowledge. The precautions required to avoid harm are fairly basic, but I accept that in the past we were unaware of the need and today many in the third world are equally ignorant.
I have not been to the ship-breaking beaches of Gujarat, but I have been to many of the overseas, smaller shipbuilding and ship repair yards. Safety is minimal in many small Mediterranean facilities, poor in Asia and non-existent in Africa. I feel that the way forward is for concerned organisations to contribute towards improvement in standards, not to try to drive the facilities out of business and leave the workforce to die of starvation. If Greenpeace India had been contributing to the provision of the basic facilities needed to secure safe working conditions, I would have applauded. As usual however, they were completely negative. (Can anyone think of any commercial activity that has ever been supported by Greenpeace?)
As for the rest of your original post, Dave, I would respectfully submit that you are writing from the naive situation of a seagoing officer, and not from the factual position of a management desk. Norway is a worthless hulk. She was by present day standards no more than a modest cruise ship. She was on her way out of the American marked, when she suffered her boiler room explosion, killing 8 crew members and injuring a further 20. That was on 25 May 2003. It would take at least another couple of years to return her to service. There is no longer an important legacy clientele.
She is 45 years old. It cost $200 million to re-engine and refit QE2 in 1986. That was 20 years ago, when the QE2 was only 17 years old. The cost for Norway must be well over $350 million today. You can buy a new handy-sized, 76,000 ton cruise ship for that price.
Star has had no qualms about selling usable tonnage to other operators. Fred Olsen has been one of their beneficiaries. Why should they have any concern about a white elephant like Norway?
To further correct my earlier posts under this thread, I must modify the information I have provided concerning the ownership of Star. The present company was formed in the Isle of Man, before moving to Bermuda. Genting owns 21% of the business, with further major chunks owned by wealthy Malaysians and a minority of the shares held by investors on the Hong Kong stock exchange.
On page 75 of the full copy of the Star 2005 accounts, there appears the following statement: -

“In January 2006, the Group entered into an agreement to dispose of S/S Norway and she was delivered to her new owner in January 2006 following the completion of the sale transaction.”

The accounts were signed-off on 20 February 2006 and certified on the same day by PriceWaterhouseCoopers as being correct. Why on earth would the distinguished directors and auditors of Star lie about something as financially insignificant as Norway?

Fred

gdynia
25th August 2006, 03:51
Gents
Been watching this thread develop with interest so might as well add my two pennys worth. My work takes me to many undeveloped countries or Third World as the Press calls them and over the years from seeing and believing Ive learnt not to believe in whats wrote down in Articles on internet or newspapers. I will give you a example last year I was one of the team on the Mars Semi Sub salvage in the Gulf of Mexico. We had a film crew on from Discovery and the long awaited documentary finaly came out on the big screen. What a shambles there was not one interview with any of the main players onboard all the interviews conducted were binned and some form of dialouge was introduced by people who took no part in the salvage what so ever yet to a innocent bystander it looked all blood and thunder.
Asbestos I deal alot with, you just have to go into our back yard (North Sea)and see how many of the older but still working platform have it onboard and some are in the process of removing it with specialized teams. Places like Alang will always be around as certain things in this life make things revolve or as the saying goes Money Talks, Bull**** walks and no matter how many pressure groups get into the act no one will stop the scrappoing of the Norway. Just take a look at Governments how often do we read of fiddles going on and theres none worse than the UK FROM RECENT EVENTS.No one will stop the final demise of the Norway.A problem which existed has now had a solution found and the only people who suffer at the end of the day are the poor sods who do the cutting it up, but if these people do not do it they will find someone else as we all have families to take care of.Ive seen so much going on in the places I work in but no one not an individual or a high ranking government offical will ever change this as theres no such thing as a Perfect World.
Ive had alot of dealings with the likes of Greenpeace and they are certainly not my cup of tea you just have to see what their leaders have as a lifestyle compared to others they so proudly claim they help.
No matter what bickering goes on about this Fine Lady shes doomed and it all boils down to Pounds,Shillings and Pence at the end of the day.

dave s
25th August 2006, 09:57
Baer with me I'll quote from different replies

Many thanks Fred

I am sorry. You are absolutely correct when you write that the internet enables incorrect statements to be published. I apologise for writing that white asbestos is completely harmless, when I should have written rarely harmful. I am very sorry that your father was a victim of our past lack of knowledge. The precautions required to avoid harm are fairly basic, but I accept that in the past we were unaware of the need and today many in the third world are equally ignorant.
Some people may be exposed to it without much effect except for a "smokers" cough but others are not so fortunate.

Thamesphil
I don't apologise for anything. Sure there are bad practises which should be stubbed out, but the vast majority of shipowners are responsible and play by the book. This 'try it on board' rubbish is always slung into arguments with non-seafarers. Sure I know nothing about shipboard ops and respect any views seagoing personnel have on that point. But why should that make you any more damn informed than me or better than me in any other way. Try learning about shipping economics. I suggest that it is you that should see the other side of the coin

my point is that what info that is sent out from companies is not always what is actually happening. And I am changing careers to see things from the other side.
With such provocative languange and a confrontatational attitude, you obviously have an malicious and misguided agenda to denigrate the shipping industry at large. Are you sure that you don't work for Greenpeace?
These are typed in quite a rush but there is no agenda, we just cant go on dumping our mess on someone less fortunate and seeing it first hand makes you think more. I doubt if the pay's that good and I dislike Tofu and plastic shoes I'm starting my car and leaving it to tick over for a couple of hours to prove a point.
As for the rest of your original post, Dave, I would respectfully submit that you are writing from the naive situation of a seagoing officer, and not from the factual position of a management desk. Norway is a worthless hulk. She was by present day standards no more than a modest cruise ship. She was on her way out of the American marked, when she suffered her boiler room explosion, killing 8 crew members and injuring a further 20. That was on 25 May 2003. It would take at least another couple of years to return her to service. There is no longer an important legacy clientele.
point taken, I left the company 4 years ago shortly before the bolier explosion and can only say what the company was saying at the time, we (crew) knew she wouldn't re-enter service with NCL as she did not fit corporate image, thats fine. My point is not that the ship is disposed of for re-use scrap its just that the company do it properly. If she gets a higher price than scrap for use as a floating hotel (example) then surely that is better for the share holders, but if she is to be scrapped ( I have no problem ) then it has to be done properly and not use the excuse that "it didn't make much money when operating" to let some poor devil do it on a beach with a low life expectancy. When the boiler exploded the crew reported that there was asbestos dust released into the ship that cannot be good.
Typical of the left-wing, self-righteous morons that so permeate our society these days.
Where are they so i can avoid them.
I refer to my first point where you are relying on what the tea-boy at Star Cruises tells you.
no way would I ask a senior officer to make tea !
In short Keep it/ scrap it its just that Star should do it within international law not outside of it.

flyer682
25th August 2006, 11:25
I really don't think we need to be going down this road.
Rightly or wrongly, the ship is going to be scrapped regardless of whether we agree or disagree with the politics that go with it.
No more multi quotes and replies please.
Thank you.

dave s
25th August 2006, 13:44
Fair point David

this has turned into handbags at dawn...........you first....oooh is that a Gucci or ralph lauren six shot in your hand. (I know a chf eng that had one as well!)

Gulpers
26th August 2006, 12:55
Well done David - beautifully handled. (Applause)
How is it that I go away for a couple of days on my boat and all hell lets loose? Missed all the fun again! (Ouch)

moaf
23rd September 2006, 14:09
just stumbled upon this site:

http://www.ssnorway.no/auctions.php

Rennie Cameron
30th October 2006, 22:33
Vessel was taken to breakers by tugs from a Sharjah based company. I saw the pix last week when in the Middle East. They have little pix and I cannot this evening recall their name. But let me know if you wish me to pursue.

benjidog
31st October 2006, 04:46
Hi Rennie,

A lot of us are interested in the final outcome so if you can find out any more we would appreciate it.

Brian

Rennie Cameron
10th November 2006, 15:51
Brian, will do. I will get on to them on Monday. They are Brits so not be a problem. Will get back to you. I had a lengthy discussion on it...apparently the poor guys onboard doing the tow ran out of food and the tug had to re-supply against some rules in place. Rennie

aadje
11th November 2006, 13:15
This picture was taken by me when sailing on dutch passenger vessel s.s.Nieuw Amsterdam in 1962 when s.s. France departed Le Havre, whilst Nieuw Amsterdam awaiting pilot. In Hamburg there will be a photo exposition concerning all about ss. France / Norway. This photo is added. Details of he exposition unfortunately unknown to me, however when interested you may approach the german forum forumschiff.

b/regards
aadje

kelgels
15th November 2006, 11:05
Does anybody know anything about this new player in the bid to stop the France/Norway/Blue Lady from being scrapped. I am not talking about Project Dubai. I have heard that this new business man tried to buy her in europe and his offer of the asking price was turned down. What I have heard is he is prepared to pay the Breaker twice the amount they paid for ship posibly more and plans to take it back to europe for a full refurbishment. Thats all I have managed to find out about this offer and he cannot make a move until the Supreme Court pass down their verdict in a few weeks.

Thamesphil
15th November 2006, 13:05
Does anybody know anything about this new player in the bid to stop the France/Norway/Blue Lady from being scrapped.....

But Isn't she already in bits? The go-ahead to scrap was given months ago and she was beached 11th August.

Phil

Lksimcoe
15th November 2006, 14:54
They haven't started to tear her apart yet, as the Indian Supreme Court hasn't rendered their decision as to whether the Norway has dangerous amounts of asbestos.

While it is still theoretically possible for the Norway/Blue Lady to be hauled out to sea and towed back to Europe, I don't think it will happen.

My reasoning is, (and I'm sure there are many qualified people who can comment on my reasoning) is that she has been beached for months now, and just last week was hauled closer to shore. The stresses on the bottom of the ship, caused by the upward and downward motion of the tides, could mean that she is dangerously weak now, and if they attempted to re-float her, she could split in two.

I wish she could be saved, but I think that she has reached the end of her life.

As an aside, the Monterey, the last of the Matson Liners beached last week in Alang as well. That's a shame because just last month she was still cruising the Meditteranean. She would have been far easier to save. And if you take a google earth look at Elusius in Greece, there are a lot of ships on lay up there. I think a lot of them will end up at either Alang or Bangladesh as well.

Jeff Taylor
7th December 2006, 16:44
I don't disagree at all that she will probably be scrapped, but another website is quoting engineering sources as saying that she most likely has not yet suffered damage, and that she could be refloated on one of Alang's "King" tides. I'd love to believe, but the reality is that she's probably done.

Ron Stringer
12th December 2006, 17:13
The BBC World Service has started running a series of 4 documentaries on dealing with toxic waste. The first episode began today - you can listen via the internet or however you normally get the BBC. For times of broadcast see
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/schedules/internet/wsradio_today.shtml

The programme trail is:

Dirty Business Ep 1/4
Monday 11 December
9.05-9.30am BBC WORLD SERVICE

Liz Carney travels to India, Nigeria, the Czech Republic and the USA to find out how the world deals with hazardous, toxic waste.

The Blue Lady, once one of the world's most glamorous cruise ships, is currently beached at the huge ship-breaking yard of Alang in India. Environmental groups argue that the asbestos-riddled ship is toxic waste and say she was dumped on India as a cheap place to scrap her. But ship breakers say Alang meets the necessary health and safety standards. They maintain that if Blue Lady is turned away from India, the work will simply go to a cheaper yard, probably in China.

The situation is set to become worse; 200 single-hulled oil tankers need to be disposed of by 2015. Liz Carney asks who is going to deal with them and at what economic and environmental cost.

Presenter and Producer/Liz Carney

Lksimcoe
13th December 2006, 22:01
I wonder how many of those oil tankers will be scrapped at H&W? Haven't they applied for permission to scrap ships in Belfast?

I would think that scrap yards in the EU could put pressure to get them, rather than having them go to Alang or Bangladesh with no environemental controls.

The way that the France/Norway was shifted to Alang via Port Kalang has left a bad taste in the mouth of the EU gov't, so I would think that they will be much tighter in their controls.

At least I hope so. One spark wrong and a hell of a lot of people could die.

David Wilcockson
2nd January 2007, 14:58
Tom
I think she was a bit longer than 6` to go thro` the Panama Canal as I`m sure the locks are 1000` long, but may be wrong, she was somewhere in the region of 1035` long.
David

benjidog
2nd January 2007, 16:20
To get back to the ship in question - has anyone read an update recently - the press has been very quiet about it of late.

Regards,

Brian

Santos
2nd January 2007, 20:50
She was winched closer into shore in the first week of Decemeber 2006. I dont think she will be going anywhere else now.

Chris.

bobby388
8th January 2007, 03:06
dont know if you guys have seen sad video waiting to be scrapped look in Google Video type in Alang.

Jeffers
8th January 2007, 20:12
Just watched it....a very sad sight indeed.
I thought that the photos on the cabin wall were particularly sad reminders of when the ship was full of life.

David Wilcockson
8th January 2007, 23:33
A very sad video indeed, I`m afraid there is only one place the old girl is going now & thats further up the beach in bits & pieces.
David

Coastie
8th January 2007, 23:40
Where do you find that video? I can't find it, though I've looked through google.

billyboy
9th January 2007, 00:48
i found it but after 3 hours of going round in circles trying to download it gave up

lex
9th January 2007, 13:14
I think this is the video you are looking for Billy Boy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgdPG1gTwwg&NR


It isnt really nice viewing..

hasse neren
9th January 2007, 17:08
Seen this link´s,
http://www.ssmaritime.com/SS-Norway.htm
(http://www.ssmaritime.com/SS-Norway.htm)
http://ss-norway.com/

Lksimcoe
9th January 2007, 18:07
I looked at the vid, and actually thought it was okay. Sure the end on an emply ship is sad, but the rest showed her in happier times. At least those memories will survive on film as well.

bobby388
9th January 2007, 23:10
Where do you find that video? I can't find it, though I've looked through google.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-7712503934928914465&q=alang
try that one coastie yuo tubes ok but i think this is best
PS its not Google its Google video Cheers Bobby

Coastie
9th January 2007, 23:39
Cheers Bobby, I cannot get onto the Youtube site anyway.

JoK
9th January 2007, 23:54
Not one gas detector on that bunch wandering thru the auditorium. Unmanned Ships in this condition are dangerous.

billyboy
10th January 2007, 09:06
I think this is the video you are looking for Billy Boy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgdPG1gTwwg&NR


It isnt really nice viewing..

Thanks for the link Lex.
started downloading now mate. should be able to watch it later today. (rice powered server here) (Jester)

billyboy
10th January 2007, 12:36
Hmmmm. Just watched that. think i will go sit on the terrace with a large rum for a while. So very sad to see. I know it has to happen but wish some of these grand old girls could last forever like the rest of you do.

David Wilcockson
11th January 2007, 13:28
How long before the United States follows her, if she is seaworthy?
David

Lksimcoe
11th January 2007, 17:48
My understanding is the NCL (US ltd) has bought the liner United States, and promised to re-build her once their Hawaii fleet was done. I think the last ship, (Pride of Aloha?) launched last year, so they should be making up their mind fairly soon about her. It's a shame really, because the is getting into a bad state.
Is she seaworthy? Who knows, but I beleive they got concessions on their Hawaii fleet because of their promise to rehabilitate the SS United States.

Rennie Cameron
15th January 2007, 18:08
Further to United States trip for asbestos...she was bought by Karaman Sadikoglu and towed from USA. Smit towed her and as she dropped anchor at Tuzla half the chain locker went twith the anchor never to be found (at least we couldnt). The vessel was then taken to Sevastopol and had her asbestos removed. She returned to Tuzla where he tried to get interest - including Branson - to run again on the Atlantic. She was "gutted" - all the panelling had been removed throughout the ship, lifeboats gone etc. He had the only set of drawings available as the underwater lines were strictly confidential. I lost touch with him and next he sold it to the US. It was a rather sad looking ship when I last saw her but still in her colours....useless but intertsting I suppose

AlexBooth
18th January 2007, 19:58
Just received this from Seatrade

" Blue Lady scrapping on hold !
17/1/2007
The ex-Norway and former France, renamed Blue Lady, is still in Alang, India, awaiting scrapping. In early December, the Indian Supreme Court ruled against granting permission for her dismantling over environmental concerns.
The Court forwarded the shipbreaking plans submitted by Priya Blue Industries to the Gujarat Pollution Control Board, which will determine whether the plans meets the requirements for safe dismantling of the ship and disposal of any hazardous products on board, including asbestos.

The next hearing on the former Norway’s fate is scheduled to take place on March 7 "

newda898
18th January 2007, 20:28
Nah! She's had it. Great to hope she won't be scrapped but as soon as she was beached it's obvious she was gone. Very sad really.

Gavin Gait
18th January 2007, 20:33
I read on another site that they had hauled her further up the beach on one of the high tides just before Christmas and they thought that any attempt to tow her off would only result in her breaking her back. Very sad that this has happened as I much prefer the classic Ocean Liner looks to todays "mobile tourist resort" type ships.

Davie

Steve
18th January 2007, 20:34
Ill post some photos of her in happier times when I was on her in the 90s, when I get time.

xl391
5th March 2007, 22:19
Any News?? (Cloud)

Paul UK
21st April 2007, 08:20
SS Maritime Matters site report looking more positive french conglomerate showing interest to tow her to Singapore for safety repairs then full refit for use as hotel in France and to be renamed france and repainted in original colours.

Secondly Priya Blue the scrappers have sent an email stating that they hope the Blue Lady has a Golden Future " Not sure if cutters torch or setting sun".

Thirdly court case to decide on removel from beach has been brought forward by 2 weeks to 30th April.

Now we wait and see still further.

Paul

billyboy
21st April 2007, 11:17
many thanks for the update PaulUK

Paul UK
27th July 2007, 08:48
The saga continues in the Indian court yesterday everyone expected permission for the breaking to start.

Well they now seem to have found radioactive material on her and the owners have been given 1 week to report on this.

Also a contempt case is now appearing in that the owners were given permission to remove furnace and lube oils but also sold off used oil which is illigel in India.

Info from " save the blue lady part of the maritime matters site.

Paul

Coastie
28th July 2007, 03:31
No sign of this French conglomerate making a move then, Paul?

JoK
28th July 2007, 10:07
I wonder if that radioactive material is in the fire detector heads.
I'll bet every other ship they have cut up has had the same heads.

LizzieNo1
11th November 2007, 19:55
Hi all,
After a search of the forum, I would like to ask, has the SS Norway been laid to rest? [I hate scrap**d].
I mean has the dark deed been done? Are there any photo's of this?
Any information is greatly apreciated !!

alex page
11th November 2007, 20:19
last I heard she is still at anchor off the coast of India . Indian officals are pondering over safety issues . Probably awaiting for a suitable large roll of rupees
Alex

LizzieNo1
11th November 2007, 21:14
Thanks fella,
I have been doing a bit of rummage around the net, I came across a site stating that the Norway [France], hasn't been broken up "yet", but I can only assume the worst is to come.
Follow this link to see:
http://www.ssmaritime.com/newsupdates-1.htm
Again, thank you for your words !!

Frank P
12th November 2007, 08:50
Lizzie,

If you go to the following site you will find plenty of information about the France/Norway past and present, the site is run by an ex officer from her Norway days and there are quite a few contributions from other ex Norway crew members.

http://captainsvoyage.7.forumer.com/index.php?sid=b3fa6afc9155fff7c50bc589397c6276

Cheers Frank

Thamesphil
12th November 2007, 10:03
On 11/9/2007, the Indian Supreme Court gave permission for the BLUE LADY (ex Norway, France) to be demolished. She had been beached at Alang since August 2006 but legal, political and environmental wrangling had prohibited her scrapping. The fact is, she could never have been towed back out to sea without severe structual damage, so she was never going to be reprieved anyway.

I suspect that, since the September ruling, breaking will commence ASAP. Indian scrappers are desperate to get their hands on what they can at the moment. The industry there is in danger of dying out with the lack of available tonnage and new environmental regulations to contend with.

Phil

LizzieNo1
12th November 2007, 19:01
Hi all,
Thank you all very much for the information on SS Norway, I must admit to thinking how sad an end to such a graceful vessel. It just mystifies me how such a iconic liner could have been treated the way she was. I have seen the SS France in her original 70's scheme a few times, graceful from whatever angle she was viewed from, to me she is an icon.
I can also see QE2 ending up the same way, in a shorter time than most think, I know where she is going next year, but short lived in my mind. Damn the British goverment for not stepping in yet again !!

Jeff Taylor
12th November 2007, 21:14
Thamesphil: I suspect you're right about the impracticality of ever towing her off the beach, but at least one salvage specialist has written on Reuben Goosen's site (ssmaritime.com) that his firm considers the job possible and would be happy to attempt it. Practical, no, but possible. Certainly I'm no expert in any event.

Thamesphil
13th November 2007, 13:45
LizzieNo1,

Admirable comments regarding what are undoubtedly fine vessels, but if the QE2s next assignment is really going to be short lived, what do you really expect the British Government to do? Pump millions of pounds of taxpayers money into keeping her afloat, when schools, hospitals and the transport system are crumbling around us? I know where I'd rather my taxes were spent and it wouldn't be on a rusty old ship, despite it being one of the most iconic symbols of the 20th century. Sometimes you just have to let go.

LizzieNo1
13th November 2007, 15:43
Hmmn maybe too much thnking from the heart on my behalf, I see your point though. I think what I'm trying to say is that, the QE2 will the very last in the line of the old type liners, the QM2 and other apartment block looking liners are a break away from the past. Wouldn't it be right to preserve the last one of it's kind, specifically so future generations could see living history of what their great grandfathers built. I want my son to see his countries history here for himself, here in blighty.
yes, it could cost millions, but I reckon that it's little compared with wastage of billions thrown away by sucsessive british governments on crackpot schemes & bad management, and that one is a very long rap sheet.

Thamesphil
13th November 2007, 19:34
LizzieNo1,

Point taken. I suppose that almost 30 years in the business on the inside has taken it's toll, leaving little room for sentimentality. I'm by no means adverse to preserving our maritime heritage, but maybe as a charitable status. That way, I can choose whether I contributed or not.

Cheers
Phil

LizzieNo1
13th November 2007, 21:45
Ah!... 30 years on the inside does indeed make a difference my friend, I see where you are coming from, very good point!

benjidog
13th November 2007, 22:51
There has already been a lengthy discussion on this ship and for continuity I am going to merge this with the earlier thread.

I will leave a temporary redirection notice to help you find it.

Regards,

Brian

Jeff Taylor
14th November 2007, 14:04
Apparently the Indians have kicked the can further down the road...it's now being reported that the whole court issue will drag into 2008 before any final decision is rendered. In the mean time, she sits and rusts on the beach.

David Wilcockson
14th November 2007, 15:10
Even the most optimistic & hopeful must have realised by now she ain't going anywhere else except further up that beach. This is a better end than sinking whilst in tow for some breakers yard, at least a great deal of artifacts can be salvaged and resold/recycled. The only question is, how long before the United States follows as surely she is beyond economic refurbishment.
David

AlexBooth
14th November 2007, 16:56
Since the QE2 is taking up the floating hotel postion in the palm island project in Abu Dib-Dabs, I guess even if the France/Norway's scrapping was cancelled what other possibilities are there out there for her ?

Steve Woodward
14th November 2007, 17:30
Given that the hulk has now been beached for more than a year, can she really besafely refloated and towed away for repair ?, what is the damage to her bottom structure ? and would it be financially viable to repair that damage as well as refit her for further use?
I think the answer to those three questions is that the next move she makes will be piece by piece, sorry but the old ship has reached her end.

Lksimcoe
14th November 2007, 20:21
From what I've read on the net, stripping of her interiors has already begun. Once that is done, they will start to dismantle.

Also, the Mercy ship, ex Anastasis, is already being broken up.

The Independance, ex Matson lines is en route after being sold by "NCL" to an Indian "middle man", and will beach in Alang soon. Since NCL owned both the Independance and the SS United States, the same thing might happen. The only thing keeping them from doing it now is that the SS US, unlike the Independance, is on the US Historic Register, so until she either sinks in place, or is delisted, they can't scrap her.

Over the next couple of years, you're going to see a lot of older passenger liners beach in Alang or Bangladesh. SOLAS 2010 has doomed virtually every single one of them.

I think it will be like it was in the 1980';s. As newbuilds come into service, the bigger lines, like Carnival, NCL and RCL will sell of their older ships to the smaller lines. In turn, those smaller lines, like Fred Olsen, Classic Cruises, etc, will then take the oldest and most SOLAS uncompliant out of service and sell to the breakers.

And in 20 years, we'll be doing the same thing all over again with the ones that are launching nowadays.

But then when the QE2 launched, I remember the press against her. I seem to remember the press comparing her to the QE and the QM, and saying she wasn't a real liner.

Amazing how times change ones opinions.

:)

fred henderson
14th November 2007, 22:11
NCL have a new 50% investor, but they are still cash-strapped. They and Star, their other 50% shareholder will probably sell off their older ships as you describe. Carnival and RCCL on the other hand are taking over European operators and transferring all except the real dogs to their new subsidiaries. The other companies have a real problem of finding ships to enable them to continue in business.

Fred(Thumb)

Frank P
15th November 2007, 08:45
From what I've read on the net, stripping of her interiors has already begun. Once that is done, they will start to dismantle.

And in 20 years, we'll be doing the same thing all over again with the ones that are launching nowadays.

Amazing how times change ones opinions.

:)

Lksimcoe, While I agree with most of what you say, what makes you think that these new things will still be around in 20 years.

Cheers Frank(Thumb)

Thamesphil
15th November 2007, 09:43
Lksimcoe, While I agree with most of what you say, what makes you think that these new things will still be around in 20 years.

Cheers Frank(Thumb)

Frank,

Unless there is some sort of economic disaster, today's new ships will HAVE to be around in 20 years, otherwise there is no feasibility in building them.

Phil

Frank P
15th November 2007, 12:46
Phil,

You said it, "economic downturn (not disaster)", the last time that I read anything about the today's cruise industry, there was an article in the Telegraph and at it stated that approximately 75-80% of today's cruisers pay for the cruise with their credit card, and if there is an economic downturn, so called luxuries like cruises will be one of the first things to "bite the dust".

Cheers Frank(Thumb)

Jeff Taylor
15th November 2007, 14:05
Small irrelevant point, but the Independence was American Export, not Matson. The last ex-Matson ship afloat, the Monterey, fell victim to Alang last year due to boiler problems.

Lksimcoe
15th November 2007, 14:28
Jeff

I stand corrected. I do beleive however, that the Independance is the last American Export liner still afloat isn't she?