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Wartime built -Empires, Forts and Parks

24K views 90 replies 34 participants last post by  Ali Urquhart 
#1 ·
Re wartime built Empire, Fort and Park ships. Does anybody know what bridge equipment they would have had as built ? Presumably magnetic compass and echo sounder, but what about gyro and auto pilot?

As for radar. I won't even ask.

Anybody sail on one in late fifties early sixties and what sort of equipment might they have had by then?
 
#4 ·
Empire Boats....

Can't have you thinking that no one reads your signals! Frankly, I never sailed on any of the British-built 'standard' WW11 ships but visited a few operated by my company in the '50s.
Bank Line had several of these ships:
"Hazelbank" ne 'Empire Franklin" Readhead's coal burner
"Hollybank" ne "Empire Southey" Shorts coal burner
"Etivebank" ne 'Empire Aden' Bartrams coal/oil burner
"Lochybank" ne "Empire Honduras" Shorts coal/oil burner
"Shielbank" ne "Empire Takoradi" Gray, steamer.

The fact that most if not all were coal burners (don't know about the "Shielbank" but probably coal) made them dirty and unpopular but nice and cheap to buy. Remember we're talking about Andrew Weir's here!

Anyway, the bridge as I remember it was very simple. A binnacle with a steering wheel amidships and another binnacle above on the monkey island. Electronics were provided by Marconi so there would have been a wet paper depth machine. One E.R. mechanical telegraph inside the wheelhouse on the starboard side. Can't remember a smoke detector cabinet and definitely no windscreen wipers or rotary clearview windows. Wind-up 'field' telephones to the fxl, aft, ER and Master and voicepipes to the ER and Master.

That's it!

Perhaps there had been some original military stuff but by the time Bank Line got hold of them, these would have been removed. On the 12 "Liberty" Boats Bank Line bought, the ice-water drinking fountains in the accommodation had been removed!

Cheers!
 
#13 ·
Can't have you thinking that no one reads your signals! Frankly, I never sailed on any of the British-built 'standard' WW11 ships but visited a few operated by my company in the '50s.
Bank Line had several of these ships:
"Hazelbank" ne 'Empire Franklin" Readhead's coal burner
"Hollybank" ne "Empire Southey" Shorts coal burner
"Etivebank" ne 'Empire Aden' Bartrams coal/oil burner
"Lochybank" ne "Empire Honduras" Shorts coal/oil burner
"Shielbank" ne "Empire Takoradi" Gray, steamer.

The fact that most if not all were coal burners (don't know about the "Shielbank" but probably coal) made them dirty and unpopular but nice and cheap to buy. Remember we're talking about Andrew Weir's here!

Anyway, the bridge as I remember it was very simple. A binnacle with a steering wheel amidships and another binnacle above on the monkey island. Electronics were provided by Marconi so there would have been a wet paper depth machine. One E.R. mechanical telegraph inside the wheelhouse on the starboard side. Can't remember a smoke detector cabinet and definitely no windscreen wipers or rotary clearview windows. Wind-up 'field' telephones to the fxl, aft, ER and Master and voicepipes to the ER and Master.

That's it!

Perhaps there had been some original military stuff but by the time Bank Line got hold of them, these would have been removed. On the 12 "Liberty" Boats Bank Line bought, the ice-water drinking fountains in the accommodation had been removed!

Cheers!
Thanks Alistair. Where you have written 'coal/oil' do you mean dual fuel (didn't know that was possible) ? Or converted ?

According to wiki the parks were coal burners and the forts were oil burners.
 
#6 ·
My memories of the wheelhouse on an "Ocean" were there was a magnetic compass, steering wheel, telegraph, whistle tube to captains cabin,wet paper E/S and a hatch to sparkies place. On the monkey island was the standard compass and the D/F goniometer (the d/f was in the sparkies shack).
A switchboard for the navigation lights. A rack with the international signal flags.
A place for the bain of our life's brasso. There was a telephone (voice activated) with a wind up handle to contact the E/R forcastle and poop.
They were not well equipped
 
#7 ·
I sailed on the Saxon Star ex Empire Strength, in early 1957. From memory she only had the basics and certainly no radar.Captain Kinghorn, who was a cadet on her in the early 50s, states, in P Heaton's book,"the Redbrook a Deep Sea Tramp", that she had two magnetic compasses,an echo sounder and an antiquated DF set, for which I can vouch. She also had an emergency Spark transmitter.She did however have HF capabilities when I was on her.
 
#9 ·
The Waihemo was a fort boat and had a gyro and radar which was a pointed range finder type converted to a PPI screen later. The Wairata I think was a later built war time building I think was called a C1A.
The gyro compass was fitted to both vessels but I do not know what type as at that time I was a cadet.I think they had auto pilots.
 
#10 ·
Sailed on Shahristan,ex Empire Dunnett Redheads coffin sterned built 1945,early fifties
Had mag compass and Sperry gyro with repeater on monkey island.Decca radar seldom in working order(I think it was repaired at almost every port we called at)and when it was no one trusted it--often needing the Masters authority to turn it on!
Telephone to foc'sel and poop. Voicepipe to E/R and Masters cabin.1 Kent Clear View screen.Mechanical telegraph,paper echo sounder,paper recording barometer,chronometer,lanyard operated steam whistle,1telescope and 1pair day and night binoculars,1d/f,1 megaphone for Master to yell at anybody more than 25 yards away,distress gun and rockets and a lot of 20/20 vision
Cant think of anything else---too long ago
 
#11 ·
Sailed on Avistone/GBSV ex Empire Martaban on iron ore run to Med and Conakry, very basic bridge gear, no radar but had an Oceanspan 1 and D/F in the Radio Room with CR300 Receiver, cant remember the Emergency TX/RX as was quite a few decades ago, the Oceanspan had a knob near the top which you pushed in to transmit anf pulled out when receiving!!
Ern Barrett
 
#14 ·
The 'Baron Geddes', my first ship was ex 'Empire Ploughman' built West Hartlepool 1943, orriginally coal burning but just converted to oil burning when I joined at Redheads South Shields in April 1958. Bridge equipment :- magnetic compass and binnacle on monkey island, also one in wheelhouse, Sperry Gyro Mark 16 which occasionally broke down voice pipes to Engine room and Master, one engine telegraph zig-zag clock steel shutters which could be closed over the three small central wheelhouse windows, seperate chart room with D/F and wet paper echo sounder Radio Receiver and transmitter + operator on hire from Marconi.
Regards Robin Craythorn.
 
#15 ·
I was wondering about the gyro compass. Did the Liberties and Victories have them as standard ? Doesn't seem as if the Empires/Parks/Forts did. Would have thought that a gyro compass would have been invaluable for convoy station keeping and zig zagging in poor vis.
 
#16 ·
re fort ships

there was 3 types, north sands, victory and canadian type, north sands were coal fired, victory were oil fired, canadian were dual fuel, forts and parks were same ships, many launched with a fort name, later changed to a park name, oceans were same design, but welded and american built, forts were all canadian built.
 
#17 ·
Sailed on four standard Empire ships -

ex Empire Patriot, joined 1948, this type were known as West Hartlepool Jeeps. Three island coal burner with woodbine funnel. Basic bridge gear, no radar or gyro. Basic comforts.

ex Empire Antigua, joined 1949, oil burner, basic bridge gear plus gyro, no radar.

ex Empire Rhodes, joined 51, bridge house rebuilt after serious fire in 45. basic bridge gear plus gyro, no radar, oil burner

Empire Darwin, former CAM ship. joined 1953, coal burner, basic gear plus gyro & radar.

Happy times.
 
#30 ·
They were. Everything was so different and ahead of the times. It is ironic that it took a war to change the way things were at sea.

Shower, washbasin and toilet in every cabin. The beds, or bunks, were half as wide ,again, as the bunks in Forts. Ice water machines and fridges in the wardrooms.

All this is old hat to later generations but this was in 1945 and they were still ahead of their time and setting the benchmark for future ships. It took Americans to show British shipowners that times were changing. If it was not for them we would still be using one shower and toilet for deck officers and one for engineers and the sailors would, still, be getting their fresh water by the use of a hand pump.
 
#25 ·
I went aboard a Fort ship when I was an apprentice. I think it was in Villa Constitucion, Parana river. Maybe it was Counties, or London and Overseas, or a London Greek; I forget, and I didn't note it in my "log". But I do remember she had wooden derricks ( some of them, anyway). Would that indicate Canadian built perhaps?
 
#31 ·
It might have done. The cabins had nicely finished furniture ( but you had to put a bucket under the wash basin to catch the water and you had to fill it by hand. No one used the damned things). The bridge and lifeboat decks were wood. T2's in contrast, had "tin" furniture and there was no wood to be seen anywhere. I know what I would rather have!
 
#29 ·
I sailed in 14 ships built during WW2 - 3 of them during the war.
Cape Howe a Standard Y type for Lyle Co - I made her maiden voyage 1943.
Neritina -Anglo Saxon Co - I made her maiden voyage 1943/44.
British Merit BTC - built 1942 - my voyage 1945.
Postwar -
Empire Shepherd MOWT built 1943 - my voyage 1945
Fort Gloucester MOWT built 1943 - my voyage 1945
Sampep MOWT Liberty ship built 1943 -my voyage 1945
Gold Ranger RFA built 1941 - my voyage 1946
Ocean Vanity MOWT built 1942 - my voyage 1947..Details exactly as stated by Lakercapt..
El Morro T2 tanker of BTC built 1944 -my voyage 1948
Trevanion Hain Co built 1944 -my voyage 1948
City of Ely Ellerman Co Liberty ship ex Samarina built 1943 -my voyage 1948
Empire Baltic ex LST 3519 built 1945 -my voyage 1949/51
Freecrest ex Empire Austen built 1942 -my voyage 1951
Starcrest ex Empire Asquith built 1944 - my voyage 1952/53
Stan
 
#32 ·
Sailed as apprentice on Fort Camosun in 1944 and 3rd Mate coasting on Fort Ville Marie in 1945.
Fort Camosun was twice torpedoed and didn't sink.. First time was 6 hours into her 1st voyage from Vancouver where she was built. 2nd time in G of Aden - beached there and then patched up and sailed to UK for repair.
Coal burner - Port Said was the fastest coaling port - women with baskets !!
Make me feel old !!
 
#34 · (Edited)
Was not until 1956 that I sailed on a ship with Radar.
It was a very basic and when working was a great asset.
Main difficulty was that you had to get the master who had a key to unlock the controls.He was the one who decided if it was necessary or should it be kept until really needed!!!!
A big problem was that the switching on and off was a major factor in them breaking down. It was when they were left on that they were more reliable and suffered less breakdowns.
 
#35 ·
Fort Edmonton. Shanghaied.1955
Was told by Dock St Pool fly to Antwerp join the Federal Voyager 5 week trip
Montreal back to the UK.
We flew from Blackbushei noticed a 18 inch stilson on the wing of the plane as the plane was reving up prior to take off the stilson fell to the ground.
The 2 planes were ex Vicounts no heating we were freezing helped only by the minature bottles of spirit which they gave us.
On arrival on board at Antwerp we were told that we would be on the Canadian
coast for the season alot longer than 5 weeks,after some arguments we did sign on and sailed.
We left Antwerp April 30th arrived Montreal May 18th heavy weather all the way,when we came back 8 months later the crossing took 16 days 3 days less.
She was was a slushy old ship heading into a gale, stick her snout in fill up forrard,then stick her **** in poop one and fill up aft,on the Monkey Island
there was a massive Aldis Lamp which was used at night to check the forrard hatch covers.
On arrival at Montreal we were told that we would be bringing iron ore from Seven Islands to Contrecour which was a jetty in the middle of nowhere.
Contrecour was a village a few miles away after about a mile walk you could
get a bus,it consisted of a couple of shops a soda bar and a club,consequently
the club was popular as it was the only place to get a beer.
One amusing incident one evening most of the crowd were in the club over the other side was the Old Man with the Chief Officer,something happened so all of us were kicked out including the Captain and the CO.
We threatened to go on strike if we did not get our Canadian Coast bonus straight away,Cheap Cigarettes,Travel money for bus fares they agreed on those points.
We did 37 trips down river to Seven Islands,37 trips up river to Contrecour.
Accomodation 4 to a cabin first and last ship where Mosquito Nets were supplied,food nothing special but edible.
If we helped Chippy repair the ceiling of the hold we got a extra Canadian Dollar a hour.
We left Montreal for Hull December 10th,arrived Hull December 26th.
On the whole she was not a bad Old Ship enjoyed my time in her.
A incident while there,Second Cook and the Sparkie stole a car,they were being chased by the police when they crashed off the road,Second Cook was killed.Sparkie was deported.
 
#36 ·
Sailed on the Fresno City ex Empire Singapore in 1963/64 . I remember we had a gyro (located somewhere on the main deck) but cant recall an auto pilot if we did then it rarely worked.The depth sounder was some sort of rotary device but I think it was fairly accurate and a RDF which only the RO Could operate successfully. I remeber a story doing teh rounds at that time that one of the company ship ( Reardon Smiths) he had constructed a" radar scanner " out of an empty oil drum mounted it on the monkey island when at anchor with another company ship, as an act of upmanship.
 
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