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Ships Without Sailors?

5K views 68 replies 25 participants last post by  Andrew Craig-Bennett 
#1 ·
#4 ·
I don't think that's completely true. There is an abundance of members on the site who swear by their previous employers and the converse is probably true, to a lesser extent I hope. But lets face it, in our private life we try for the best deal and are not above employing guys who are willing to undercut the boss by doing 'foreigners'. Owners were no different. They wanted value for money.

(*))
 
#5 ·
This has always been an interesting concept that has interested me. J haven't seen a full concept presentation as one or two problems are certainly glaring:
To where does the unmanned arrive.....Pilot Station
How and where does the mooring crew board?
Who controls the mooring crew?
Present regulations in regards compulsory pilotage require a Master / Pilot relationship.
I am afraid I find it all rather mind boggling! So much unknown.
 
#6 ·
Going back to 67 when I was sent to Southampton on MAR. The powers that be there were telling us by the time we sailed as Master ALL ships would run on Atomic Power and the crews would join at the Pillot station and get off at same place. vessel would then do its own thing !!

Alan
 
#7 · (Edited)
Just from the engineering side I cannot see this happening too soon. What will they do when the owners buy the cheapest fuel and the purifiers need manual cleaning continuously, a small bore pipe to a fuel line pressure sensor
fractures due to vibration, a mechanical seal on a oil / water pump fails, or a million other things occur in the middle of an ocean? IMHO until every eventuality is covered totally unmanned ships will not come about.
 
#11 ·
Tony, the Americans have been running an unmanned ex Warship on Trials for quite a while now, like the proposed cargo vessel it is on a fixed route from one Naval Base to another although of course any problems have not been published.
Like yourself I wonder what happens if those problems you mention happen.
 
#8 ·
Steal one! Have a large enough (ish) vessel that can carry your own helicopter. Find an unmanned contain ship and you just take it wherever you want and take the pickings. Who is going to stop anyone? Crew are not that great at stopping pirates. Without crew on board it would be simple.
 
#14 ·
At what point does it become economically viable to leave valuable property with nobody taking care of it?

Is there any precedent from which guidance might be taken?

As a small child I can remember being in Richard Jones' grocery shop in Chester, gazing in awe as cash was loaded into small canisters (about the size of a cocoa tin) and duly despatched overhead from the sales counter to the accounts office by a deft pull by the ruddy-cheeked saleswoman on a thing like a lavatory chain. Whang- and off it went! There, of course, in-store security was all around and the cash-in-transit was almost certainly safe.

Valuable goods on the open ocean? That's a different matter. What do insurers say? The risks no doubt will have been taken into account. Who, on standing his first watch, was not conscious of the value of the tin can which floated beneath his feet?
 
#15 ·
Will She?

I must go down to the sea again, to see just how safe is my freight?
In a modern tin can, with no deck-boy nor man, to look at the draft or the weight.
Is she still upright? Is she deep? Is she light? Is she ballasted duly in trim?
Where man would once check to ensure against wreck, I wonder what happened to him?

I must go down to the sea again, to ensure that she’ll get up the channel,
With no-one aboard. Can we really afford to entrust navigation to flannel?
Will the man on the beach with electric outreach feel the wind and the tide up his jacksie?
Or, duly laid-back, will trustworthiness crack; as he orders his home-going taxi?

I must go down to the sea again. I’ve seen many wrecks on the beach,
Since days of yore and a truthful sealore, the truth has had plenty to teach,
From a freight-rate and a young mate, ambitious to rise in his calling,
Or a sad joke and an old soak, with history truly appalling.

I must go down to the sea again. I’ve seen both the worst and the best,
Where all who sail will succeed or else fail. No mercy is shown in the test.
There are pound signs. There are fine lines. Survivors are few, where they’ve crossed.
She’s a tin can. This is management, man. She’ll float, yes she will. Or she’s lost.


BY
17.05.2017
 
#17 ·
Today, all these concepts sound possible, electric cars, driverless cars, why not ships and even aeroplanes.
Many of us scoff at the ideas, some have seemingly valid reservations and a few see the trends as inevitable.
Only today I hear about a new design of storage battery that will enable a car to be fully recharged within five minutes and with a range that will improve the present relatively short distances between charges.
Battery powered container ships? Don't rule it out but perhaps after our time.

Bob
 
#18 ·
I saw a piece on TV today that said self-driving cars are probably ten years away. The stated problem is self-driving cars are programmed to follow driving rules. The problem is that many, if not most human drivers, do not follow all of the driving rules all of the time.

They illustrated several areas around the US, where due to quirks in street/highway design, everyone must break the driving laws to go that way. This is accepted by the local populace, and the local law enforcement agencies. But it stymies self-driving cars.

So self-driving cars have to be programmed to drive like a human anywhere in the US.

Greg Hayden
 
#19 ·
An Olde worlde chestnut ?? This has been around theses pages before, and I remember at college in 59-61 one of the lectures who spent time at the RN station in WWII at Milford haven saying the 'blue print' for crewless/unmanned convey ships was on the drawing boards then? It is the investment and time that is needed, and in times of emergency people have a value? but what that is I will leave you too decide- WAS Manpower cheap in WWI & WWII??? I am slightly older and more cynical.
 
#22 ·
I have spent the greater part of my career faultfinding and trying to repair automation that has gone wrong, in many cases badly wrong. These shining, chrome plated gizmos were fitted only months previously with a salesman's promise that they were rigorously tested and had Class approval. Boll1x, did someone mention the self-cleaning separator?

All a beancounter wants to hear is how much money he is going to save and there is no doubt that modern automation can be quite good but intrinsically risky. Many unmanned ships won't get further than the fairway buoys if indeed they don't crash into them.
 
#26 ·
. Ultimately, the fleet managers and sector managers are drawn from either deck or engine. QUOTE]


Ultimately there won't be anyone from deck or engine that can fix or manage the damn things!


If you want to get a good job at sea? Start the towing and salvage business! You find crewless (clueless) ship, grab it and tow into port. You will get a fine salvage award! All you need to is watch the AIS Tracker. If it stops or goes in circle... head forphen it.

Stephen
 
#25 ·
It will happen sooner or later.
I can remember working on the docks in the late 60s when containerisation started to gain a foothold.
"Ah", we said, "but they will never be able to put railway lines and the like in containers, our jobs are safe". Little did we know.
 
#28 ·
I would suspect that autonomous ships would add a whole new dimension to piracy. After all, there must be a means of communication with the ship by the owners and maritime authorities, and communications can be hacked -- perhaps by something like the current ransomeware WannaCry that has crippled half the world's industries and authorities. Imagine contacting your ship only to have a message appear on your computer screens saying "We have control of your ship, and unless you immediately pay us $10m we will run it into the nearest solid land and sink it."

The pirates would never need to take the risk of putting to sea and being taken out by naval vessels; they could simply sit in front of a computer miles from the nearest ocean and be completely untraceable. In fact, one individual teenage hacker could become very wealthy!
 
#29 ·
One way round that is to make the ships fully autonomous, self determining, maybe even self aware ? Give it a couple of Phalanx Gatling Guns and send it on its way.

Would call for some pretty advanced AI admitted. Quantum Computers are on the horizon (*))

Might make the pilots and mooring crews a bit nervous when boarding though. (LOL)
 
#31 ·
The statutory definition of a pilot is "Any person not belonging to a ship who has the conduct thereof" (Section 31, Pilotage Act 1987).

A shipmaster belongs to his ship, within the meaning of the Act; and cannot therefore at the same time be a pilot within the meaning of the Act. (The Anna Merryl, Grimsby Magistrates' Court, 2002.)

If a statutory pilot with a mooring crew boards a wholly unmanned ship, who then is the master of the ship?
 
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