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  #101  
Old 16th April 2012, 04:55
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jamesgpobog jamesgpobog is offline  
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My old Navy ship had Fairbanks-Morse opposed piston diesels running the aux. generators. They were used in some U.S. subs too. What do you experienced engine guys think of the Fairbanks-Morse?
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  #102  
Old 17th April 2012, 02:45
surfaceblow surfaceblow is offline  
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My experience with Fairbanks-Morse engines was that they were loud, cranky and hard to do regular maintenance on them. The biggest problem was the outboard generator was to close to the skin of the skin of the ship. During an overhaul of one of the Generators a fuel leak developed on the remaining engine. In order to fix the fuel leak we had to transfer the load to the shaft generator before shutting down the engine online. This normally wouldn't been a problem but we were at anchor and the Deck Watch did not call the Captain. So when we clutched in the Main Engine to run the shaft generator with the CP at zero pitch and about 100 rpm the Captain ran up to the bridge in his PJ's thinking he sleep through his wake up call and we had orders to leave.

While we where doing the overhaul of the inboard engine the person guiding the vertical shaft in place got stuck in the crankcase. The longer he was in the crankcase the more bloated he got an could not slide pass the vertical shaft. So the engine gang started to close up the crankcase doors leaving him with only one way out of the engine. In the process of climbing out of the engine he torn up his clothes and cut up his chest legs and arms.

Joe

Last edited by surfaceblow : 17th April 2012 at 03:00.
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  #103  
Old 17th April 2012, 11:08
Malcolm K. Malcolm K. is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Short View Post
I came across this 19 minute film Polar Power about British Polar from 1974:

http://ssa.nls.uk/film.cfm?fid=3268

Ideal for marine engineers who can't get off to sleep....I noticed a couple of odd things: the plastic-sheeted frames used in the factory to isolate engine building areas. Any ideas why? An attempt to create a clean area, or perhaps to keep the heat in....

Also, at 12:50 the V-12 engine arrives in France - it looks like one of the valve covers has fallen off!
Thanks Peter for the film about British Polar Engines. Like Jocko I also served my apprenticeship with British Polar. 1965 - 1970. It was expected that once your time was out that you went to sea. As was said to me " We have taught you the basics now go to sea and become an engineer".

Happy days
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  #104  
Old 9th January 2014, 20:16
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gleniffer gleniffer is offline  
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Hello everyone - my first post here.

Does anyone have any leads on Gleniffer engine spares ?

I know they were taken over by Kelvin in Glasgow.

I need some piston rings for a 1930s DB2 ( 4 3/4 " dia bore), which we have in a narrow boat here in the UK.

I gather Gleniffers were quite popular in Australia and New Zealand. Used as lifeboat engines, as well as for small ships.

Thanks for any help.
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  #105  
Old 13th January 2014, 10:24
Steve Hodges Steve Hodges is offline  
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Originally Posted by surfaceblow View Post

While we where doing the overhaul of the inboard engine the person guiding the vertical shaft in place got stuck in the crankcase. The longer he was in the crankcase the more bloated he got an could not slide pass the vertical shaft. So the engine gang started to close up the crankcase doors leaving him with only one way out of the engine. In the process of climbing out of the engine he torn up his clothes and cut up his chest legs and arms.

Joe
Reminds me of my cadet workshop experience time in Hawthorn Leslie when we were building the one and only Doxford Seahorse prototype. One of the fitter's mates, a somewhat intellectually-challenged individual who rejoiced in the nickname of The Blob, was delegated to clean some machining swarf from the bottom of the crankcase. He managed to slide in around the crankshaft, but when he was finished he found there were no hand- or footholds to enable him to climb out. His requests for a hand to climb out got more and more vociferous as knocking-off time approached, which , of course, his workmates thought was hilarious. By the time I left the volume and profanity had reached astronomic proportions. Someone must have relented eventually because all was back to normal the next morning.
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  #106  
Old 13th January 2014, 18:54
berbex berbex is offline
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Thanks for reviving this thread. Brings back memories of a lifetime.

I owe an interesting and fruitful career in engineering to an early encounter at age five or so with a two stroke Petters that use to scare the s*** out of me with its backfiring every half minute or so. One day i saw it dismantled with failed bearings and there and then I decided to be like the guy who trounced that beast. Later in life I had many encounters with many of the names that appear in this thread, including the last Sulzer RND** (I still think it was 105).

Further up bri445 asked about English Electric. I had some experience with the last of the EE fullagars at an underground station from the late 1930's. They were good workhorses that did their job when called for. Everything in the pics is EE made.

If i manage I'll attach two photos of the plant, still all there, but crying for mercy. Its underground at a place known during the war as "the caves". Maybe someone heard of that.

Rgds.
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  #107  
Old 13th January 2014, 21:00
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Interesting photo Berbex, do you know if these engines were fitted as Emergency Gen Sets on the ROTOR system?
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  #108  
Old 13th January 2014, 21:46
berbex berbex is offline
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These are land based units in a power station, British services, later DOE as I recall.

There used to be nine engines. Three early units with air blast injection. They were scrapped before I got there. The other six were a later model, three installed between 1934 and 1939 (in preparation for war evidently), three during the war. Fullagar square-four opposed piston, three pairs of liners.

Everything inside the plant was English Electric, to answer an earlier request by bri445.
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Last edited by berbex : 13th January 2014 at 22:17.
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  #109  
Old 13th January 2014, 22:16
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Thanks for the info berbex
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  #110  
Old 14th January 2014, 18:17
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Just a bit more info on the engine from my own records which you may or may not know Berbex, the Fullagar engine started its life off as a marine engine in the early 1920s, they were built by either Cammellaird or Palmers Shipbuilding. It is as you say of the opposed piston type with four cylinders, bore of 24 inch diameter and a piston stroke of 36 inches.
The caves may well be the vast underground complex near Bath some of which are still in use I believe to store Equipment. For a number of years I have been trying to find which make of engine was used as the E.G. on a particular RADAR system, the only info I had was that they were as big as a ships engine and they were housed in a building which was disguised to look like a Chapel with the exhaust going up what would have been the Bell Tower. For many reason this engine could fit the bill, in later years these engines were replaced by two smaller R.R 6cyl E.G. Sets.
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  #111  
Old 14th January 2014, 23:31
berbex berbex is offline
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The pictures are from the last remaining lot of 'square four' fullagars, six in no, in an underground station in Malta. The last I heard about these machines was that only one other machine of this type remains.

I have the booklet of the earlier lot, dated 1925. It says they were Cammell-Laird patents.

About 'the caves' I heard from two Parsons top staff who came to see the place while still operational, some 35 years ago. They wondered if the place was it. Spares for the machines came from a similar station in Singapore, closed down about that time. From pics I've seen along the years there apparently were quite a number of these installed. The Spitfire factory power house had those engines.
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  #112  
Old 15th January 2014, 16:45
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Look very similar to the one in Napier (see my photo gallery).

I have a pdf of the Fullagar brochure but it is 32Mb so too big to post - anyone wanting a copy please pm me
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  #113  
Old 16th January 2014, 10:53
retfordmackem retfordmackem is offline  
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Originally Posted by Satanic Mechanic View Post
I would have happily given the Luftwaffe the co ordinates to assist them in closing them down. Bloody awful machines

More on topic, the world has moved on - we (sort of) invented, if not the technology, then certainly the standard off that technology - it then moved on to other places and evolved over the years. To be honest I don't think we could ever compete in the modern day market, most engines and indeed plant are built under license away from the companies home country. Sometimes you just have to sit back and be proud of what we done and accept that we have given so many countries the chance to improve themselves based on our technology. The technology seems to pass on to the next place after a while and so on over the years, at the moment China is in the ascendancy and Korea's time will soon start waning -in time it will move on to the next place. The interesting bit is where that next place will be.
It will be many many years before China wains and money men move elsewhere for technology/and cheap labour. . So perhaps they will come to England then ? as we will have forgotten all we know by then. Just a thought ,as this country is slowly slowly(sorry quickly quickly)being de -skillled .
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  #114  
Old 28th January 2014, 20:42
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Originally Posted by berbex View Post
The pictures are from the last remaining lot of 'square four' fullagars, six in no, in an underground station in Malta. The last I heard about these machines was that only one other machine of this type remains.

I have the booklet of the earlier lot, dated 1925. It says they were Cammell-Laird patents.

About 'the caves' I heard from two Parsons top staff who came to see the place while still operational, some 35 years ago. They wondered if the place was it. Spares for the machines came from a similar station in Singapore, closed down about that time. From pics I've seen along the years there apparently were quite a number of these installed. The Spitfire factory power house had those engines.
The engines appear to be inside the Gib tunnels, used in the Power Station.
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  #115  
Old 29th January 2014, 18:14
berbex berbex is offline
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Originally Posted by chadburn View Post
The engines appear to be inside the Gib tunnels, used in the Power Station.
Hi,

They are in tunnels. If by Gib you mean Gibraltar- no-Malta.
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  #116  
Old 29th January 2014, 18:26
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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There must be others, I was watching the programme about Gib last night and part of the programme was showing a 'Ghost Hunt' in what was the Power Station hidden in the tunnels, there were two of them with 'English Electric' cast on the side.
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  #117  
Old 29th January 2014, 20:02
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Some other survivors here http://www.imarest.org/Portals/0/IMa...letter0110.pdf

Don't know if this will work or not https://www.dropbox.com/s/rub613nl2z...r%20Engine.pdf
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  #118  
Old 29th January 2014, 22:08
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Well done Duncan with the drop box information
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  #119  
Old 29th January 2014, 22:51
bri445 bri445 is offline  
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Many thanks, Duncan, for the brochure. Now we know exactly how the engine works, thanks to the detailed description. There were some interesting installations there, including UK towns wanting dc supplies before 'nationalised' ac came in.
Note that on page 10, they sold one to Japan! Ok, it was land based and not in a ship!

So, may I ask if the brochure is dated; there may be a code at the bottom of the back page, which was how the company listed its publications.
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  #120  
Old 30th January 2014, 09:52
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I'm afraid I don't know a date, I found the booklet on the web, but can't remember where and so far my attempts to refind it have failed, I'll keep looking..

I've mentioned it before but can I commend this website and museum to your attention http://www.internalfire.com/index.ph...8d231e8aac6f9b I visited it about 10 years ago and found I was at school with the owner - my overriding recollection of him is building and running a pulse jet engine in the metalwork shop
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  #121  
Old 30th January 2014, 12:35
bri445 bri445 is offline  
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I somehow assumed you had the brochure. I'll have a search, too.

Correction: The Japanese reference is in Pg.28, Fig.30, not Pg.10.

Thanks again, all, for renewing my interest in the remarkable English Electric Company, where I was apprenticed far too many years ago.
Brian
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  #122  
Old 30th January 2014, 12:57
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Just a check, did English Electric actually machine and build the engines themselves or did they buy them from Cammellaird and stick them on their own bed plate?
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  #123  
Old 31st January 2014, 12:58
berbex berbex is offline
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Thank you Duncan112 for the brochure. Interesting. Re date I checked on Guernsey PS at their site for machine order - last page. The Fullagar 8Q was installed 1936.

There may be other engines. Admiralty supplied fullagars to a number of places apparently, from the brochure list. But most are no more. According to a Diesels magazine only 1(NZ)+6 remained. They may be wrong. There were none left in UK because 25yrs ago someone called to purchase one from Malta. They were still operational then.

Since there seems to be interest in drawings, find attached drwgs of the earlier type, blast injection.
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Last edited by berbex : 31st January 2014 at 17:30. Reason: update
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  #124  
Old 1st February 2014, 14:07
Peter Short Peter Short is offline  
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I wrote the following a couple of weeks back, but have not been able to post. I changed a setting, and it seem to work now....

Berbex, thanks very much for your Fullagar photos and comments. It is great to hear these engines survive. It would be great to hear any of your impressions and memories of these unusual engines.

According to the reference below, there were 11 Fullagar engines supplied to Malta, the first five had blast injection. Remaining engines still on standby in 1992?

There is an early Fullagar at the Faraday Centre in Napier, New Zealand; I was able to examine this engine some years back and was very impressed with the design. The power house has become a museum.

The NZ engine is a type 4Q, four cylinder, 600 bhp driving an alternator. It was started in 1925 and remained on standby until about 1970 (I think). This engine still has blast injection and appears runnable.

FYI, Hugh Francis Fullagar, His Work and Engines by Robert Cox is a 28 page article found in Stationary Power No.19; The Journal of the International Stationary Steam Engine Society. Not exhaustive, but good coverage of Mr Fullagar and his many patents, the marine Fullagars and the more successful stationary engines.

The stationary engines as built by English Electric at their Willans Works were distinct from the marine Fullagars built by Cammell Laird and their six sub-licence holders. Nevertheless, English Electric were also licenced by Cammell Laird.

From the above article: there were approximately 100 Fullagar stationary engines built at Willans Works, Rugby, the last before the mid-1950’s. Most were exported, 16 installed in Britain. There were multiple engines sent to Khartoum (8), Bermuda (8), Malta (11), Guernsey (5), Singapore (12), Nauru (5), Gibraltar and no doubt other places.

There are probably quite a few survivors, e.g. Malta (Type 6Q x6), Australia (Type 8Q x2), Gibraltar (3?) and NZ (1). None known to survive in Britain.

I wonder if any engines survive on Nauru or Ocean Island, or at Khartoum etc.

BTW, there were two main sizes offered by English Electric, the Type Q (14” bore, 16” stroke, each piston) and the Type R (19” bore, 22” stroke, each piston). Both types were made in four, six and eight cylinder versions. The Q type had the prominent “square” scavenge pump, the single-acting pump being the top cross head. The R type had a more conventional circular, double-acting, scavenge pump above each upper piston. Blast injection gave way to direct injection from around 1931, some of the older engines were upgraded to airless injection.

Apologies for dwelling on the land-based Fullagars. There were nine ships fitted with Fullagar engines and some work done on submarine versions, but it seems to have been a sorry tale of failure – all except two engines had been replaced by 1930.

I should also mention that the earliest Fullagars were gas engines with spark ignition, not oil engines. They must have been quite impressive for their time, e.g. Belliss & Morcom built a 2,000 bhp six cylinder Fullagar engine, installed in 1917 at the Weardale Waste Heat Power Station at Spennymore. This engine ran on waste coke oven gas and drove a 1250 kVA Vickers alternator. Lots of initial problems, running well in the 1920’s, in service until the mid 1930’s.

Last edited by Peter Short : 2nd February 2014 at 11:54.
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  #125  
Old 1st February 2014, 18:58
berbex berbex is offline
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Thank you for that informative post. A quick reply for now.

The Malta units, the remaining 6x6Q were still operational up to 1983, having been pressed back into service when demand picked up after the oil shock. They also doubled as ‘black start’ and remained so for some more years.

Spares were got from the Singapore PS when it was broken up, but there were many parts that were not interchangable. Injectors were still obtainable; but a cam shaft cost as much as a new car, a few pounds less in fact. Main consumables were oil pipes to pistons and piston rings. Other than that they were like most other machines.

But you watched out for the cross rods linking pistons, for any loosening or other trouble. Years earlier at a ship repair yard I had seen some ugly incidents. A Doxford upper piston after one rod parted, if that happened in a fullagar?!

On the whole they were reliable, and they did their job.
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