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White Fleet - Santa Maria Manuela

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  #26  
Old 8th January 2010, 20:00
TNeves's Avatar
TNeves TNeves is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay cresswell View Post
Hi Tiago
Good to see your post
I'd like to make a suggestion or two
Perhaps you could post some of your pix of Argus on this site?
It has been ages since anything was and certainly not since she returned to Portugal
Also, do you know anyone, perhaps at Pascoal or the maritime museum and who has access to up-to-date photos of Santa Maria Manuela. It would be great if some photos of her being restored were posted on this site too
I think it is amazing that in maybe another two years, the three sisters will be sailing together again
Regards
Jay
Pascoal keeps the blog updated, and it is from there that I see the updates of SMM. About the two years, SMM is almost ready, however I don't know when Argus is going to be refurbished.

The pictures that I post here, is before the white painting, but the ship is exactly the same

http://img707.imageshack.us/i/img1368ur.jpg/
http://img412.imageshack.us/i/img1364w.jpg/
http://img36.imageshack.us/i/img1363gw.jpg/
http://img36.imageshack.us/i/img1360ee.jpg/
http://img689.imageshack.us/i/img1359x.jpg/

This weekend I will try to take more pictures.

I hope you enjoy it.
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  #27  
Old 9th January 2010, 21:01
jay cresswell jay cresswell is offline  
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Thanks Tiago
Yes, I check the SMM site every week
Note that there have been not further pix on the New Quest of the Schooner Argus site since Oct 19. Pity, I and I guess many others were enjoying the old historic pix
I'm guessing that the work of stripping back Argus won't start until SMM is fully commissioned. At least she got a cosmetic coat of white paint to hide some of the rust
Regards
Jay
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  #28  
Old 11th January 2010, 17:26
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TNeves TNeves is offline  
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New pictures!

http://santamariamanuela.blogspot.co...janeiro-i.html

It's January update! Almost ready for the final painting. Will it be painted in black? Blue? No, pure white just joking.
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  #29  
Old 15th January 2010, 22:13
Fpaiao Fpaiao is offline  
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Smm Recovery

Hello there, you can follow the recovery of the ship in

www.santamariamanuela.blogspot.com


Argus will take his time!

Ps: Use google translate to understand some of the texs.


Regards, Francisco Paião
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  #30  
Old 20th January 2010, 15:58
jay cresswell jay cresswell is offline  
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Hi guys
Yes, have been following recovery of SMM for the past two years
The pix posted on the website this week are fantastic
It won't be long now before SMM heads back home for the final part of her fitting work before starting charters
Can either of you get in touch with Pascoal (I can't write Portuguese, and ask if they would permit some pictures of SMM to go onto this site
Cheers
Jay
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  #31  
Old 25th January 2010, 21:56
Eric L Eric L is offline  
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Early History of Gazela Primeiro

Quote:
Originally Posted by werner_ju View Post
Hi Eric,

I’ve seen GAZELA several times (Philadelphia, New York, Halifax).

GAZELA (currently her official name) is by far not the oldest wooden vessel still sailing. With most sources her year of built is given as 1883 which is true only at about 99.9%.

There was a GAZELA built in 1883, much smaller than the one we know today. GAZELA PRIMEIRO was built in 1900 by incorporating a symbolic piece of wood of the old GAZELA in the new structures. The reason for doing this was that at that time no newbuilds were allowed, rebuilds however could be done. Officially GAZELA PRIMEIRO was a rebuilt, in fact she was almost entirely new.

Unluckily the blog where I had the details from is no longer active but I’ve saved it’s contents regarding Gazela.

At least you can find a hint on her rebuilt and the whole cod fishing fleet here:
http://museumaritimo.cm-ilhavo.pt/frota/navios.aspx
Click on the small boxes with or without pictures for details and history of the vessels. In case parts of the boxes or the page selection (under the lowest right box) is obscured, play a little with the size or different folders. GAZELA for instance can be found on the sixth page.

Some of the oldest wooden sailing vessels still active are:
Germany:
RIGMOR, cutter of 1853
GRÖNLAND, topsail cutter of 1867 / 68
VANADIS, schooner of 1868

Denmark:
JENSINE, cutter of 1852

Norway:
ANNA ROGDE, schooner of 1868

Best regards,
Werner

Hi Werner,

Thank you for the clarification on other older wooden-hulled sailing vessels. I omitted "square rigger" from my description of what we believe Gazela to be -- the oldest wooden-hulled square rigger still actively sailing. I am not familiar with the other vessels you cited, so maybe she's just "one of the oldest".

Where did you get your information for Gazela's pre-1900 history? We are aware of several versions, all conflicting with each other. These different versions keep being repeated which gives each one credibility. To resolve this we would like to find original records, such as Lloyds or archives in Portugal.

One thing about Gazela that we think is remarkable is that she has been in continuous use her entire life. Although she has been rebuilt, she has never been restored from an abandoned status.

Best Regards,

Eric
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  #32  
Old 25th January 2010, 23:47
Eric L Eric L is offline  
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Early History of Gazela Primeiro

Quote:
Originally Posted by werner_ju View Post
Hi Eric,

I’ve seen GAZELA several times (Philadelphia, New York, Halifax).

GAZELA (currently her official name) is by far not the oldest wooden vessel still sailing. With most sources her year of built is given as 1883 which is true only at about 99.9%.

There was a GAZELA built in 1883, much smaller than the one we know today. GAZELA PRIMEIRO was built in 1900 by incorporating a symbolic piece of wood of the old GAZELA in the new structures. The reason for doing this was that at that time no newbuilds were allowed, rebuilds however could be done. Officially GAZELA PRIMEIRO was a rebuilt, in fact she was almost entirely new.

Unluckily the blog where I had the details from is no longer active but I’ve saved it’s contents regarding Gazela.

At least you can find a hint on her rebuilt and the whole cod fishing fleet here:
http://museumaritimo.cm-ilhavo.pt/frota/navios.aspx
Click on the small boxes with or without pictures for details and history of the vessels. In case parts of the boxes or the page selection (under the lowest right box) is obscured, play a little with the size or different folders. GAZELA for instance can be found on the sixth page.

Some of the oldest wooden sailing vessels still active are:
Germany:
RIGMOR, cutter of 1853
GRÖNLAND, topsail cutter of 1867 / 68
VANADIS, schooner of 1868

Denmark:
JENSINE, cutter of 1852

Norway:
ANNA ROGDE, schooner of 1868

Best regards,
Werner

Hi Werner,

Thank you for the clarification on other older wooden-hulled sailing vessels. I omitted "square rigger" from my description of what we believe Gazela to be -- the oldest wooden-hulled square rigger still actively sailing. I am not familiar with the other vessels you cited, so maybe she's just "one of the oldest".

Where did you get your information for Gazela's pre-1900 history? We are aware of several versions, all conflicting with each other. These different versions keep being repeated which gives each one credibility. To resolve this we would like to find original records, such as Lloyds or archives in Portugal.

One thing about Gazela that we think is remarkable is that she has been in continuous use her entire life. Although she has been rebuilt, she has never been restored from an abandoned status.

Best Regards,

Eric
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  #33  
Old 26th January 2010, 01:41
Eric L Eric L is offline  
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Early History of Gazela Primeiro

Quote:
Originally Posted by werner_ju View Post
Hi Eric,

I’ve seen GAZELA several times (Philadelphia, New York, Halifax).

GAZELA (currently her official name) is by far not the oldest wooden vessel still sailing. With most sources her year of built is given as 1883 which is true only at about 99.9%.

There was a GAZELA built in 1883, much smaller than the one we know today. GAZELA PRIMEIRO was built in 1900 by incorporating a symbolic piece of wood of the old GAZELA in the new structures. The reason for doing this was that at that time no newbuilds were allowed, rebuilds however could be done. Officially GAZELA PRIMEIRO was a rebuilt, in fact she was almost entirely new.

Unluckily the blog where I had the details from is no longer active but I’ve saved it’s contents regarding Gazela.

At least you can find a hint on her rebuilt and the whole cod fishing fleet here:
http://museumaritimo.cm-ilhavo.pt/frota/navios.aspx
Click on the small boxes with or without pictures for details and history of the vessels. In case parts of the boxes or the page selection (under the lowest right box) is obscured, play a little with the size or different folders. GAZELA for instance can be found on the sixth page.

Some of the oldest wooden sailing vessels still active are:
Germany:
RIGMOR, cutter of 1853
GRÖNLAND, topsail cutter of 1867 / 68
VANADIS, schooner of 1868

Denmark:
JENSINE, cutter of 1852

Norway:
ANNA ROGDE, schooner of 1868

Best regards,
Werner

Hi Werner,

Thank you for the clarification on other older wooden-hulled sailing vessels. I omitted "square rigger" from my description of what we believe Gazela to be -- the oldest wooden-hulled square rigger still actively sailing. I am not familiar with the other vessels you cited, so maybe she's just "one of the oldest".

Where did you get your information for Gazela's pre-1900 history? We are aware of several versions, all conflicting with each other. These different versions keep being repeated which gives each one credibility. To resolve this we would like to find original records, such as Lloyds or archives in Portugal.

One thing about Gazela that we think is remarkable is that she has been in continuous use her entire life. Although she has been rebuilt, she has never been restored from an abandoned status.

Best Regards,

Eric
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  #34  
Old 26th January 2010, 01:46
Eric L Eric L is offline  
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Gazela's Early History

Quote:
Originally Posted by werner_ju View Post
Hi Eric,

I’ve seen GAZELA several times (Philadelphia, New York, Halifax).

GAZELA (currently her official name) is by far not the oldest wooden vessel still sailing. With most sources her year of built is given as 1883 which is true only at about 99.9%.

There was a GAZELA built in 1883, much smaller than the one we know today. GAZELA PRIMEIRO was built in 1900 by incorporating a symbolic piece of wood of the old GAZELA in the new structures. The reason for doing this was that at that time no newbuilds were allowed, rebuilds however could be done. Officially GAZELA PRIMEIRO was a rebuilt, in fact she was almost entirely new.

Unluckily the blog where I had the details from is no longer active but I’ve saved it’s contents regarding Gazela.

At least you can find a hint on her rebuilt and the whole cod fishing fleet here:
http://museumaritimo.cm-ilhavo.pt/frota/navios.aspx
Click on the small boxes with or without pictures for details and history of the vessels. In case parts of the boxes or the page selection (under the lowest right box) is obscured, play a little with the size or different folders. GAZELA for instance can be found on the sixth page.

Some of the oldest wooden sailing vessels still active are:
Germany:
RIGMOR, cutter of 1853
GRÖNLAND, topsail cutter of 1867 / 68
VANADIS, schooner of 1868

Denmark:
JENSINE, cutter of 1852

Norway:
ANNA ROGDE, schooner of 1868

Best regards,
Werner
Hi Werner,

Thank you for the clarification on other older wooden-hulled sailing vessels. I omitted "square rigger" from my description of what we believe Gazela to be -- the oldest wooden-hulled square rigger still actively sailing. I am not familiar with the other vessels you cited, so maybe she's just "one of the oldest".

Where did you get your information for Gazela's pre-1900 history? We are aware of several versions, all conflicting with each other. These different versions keep being repeated which gives each one credibility. To resolve this we would like to find original records, such as Lloyds or archives in Portugal.

One thing about Gazela that we think is remarkable is that she has been in continuous use her entire life. Although she has been rebuilt, she has never been restored from an abandoned status.

Best Regards,

Eric
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  #35  
Old 8th February 2010, 15:29
Cachinare Cachinare is offline  
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Hello everybody.

I know this forum "Ships Nostalgia" for a couple of years, but only now decided to be part of it due to this thread on portuguese codfishing and it´s sailing vessels, where happily I see some passionate foreigners.
I am the author of the blog www.caxinas-a-freguesia.blogs.sapo.pt , and follow very carefully everything related to fishing, codfishing, and the neverending Sea.
There are some interesting questions along the thread, as for instance why the portuguese fleet, using still sailing vessels in early 70s, is "neglected" by proeminent writers, or museums. I used to think that great sea nations, like England, Portugal, Holland, etc, had in their government the responsibility for it´s memory and care. But today I know I was wrong, because its private investment the only one who can save / develop maritime heritage (maybe Holland is an exception). Governments do the "theatre", we the people do the work, and that´s the case of Pascoal & Filhos with the 2 of the "white swans" they have in hands, for our joy.
This and other topics can provide us good discussions, as I hope to.

With regards,
António Fangueiro

Last edited by Cachinare; 8th February 2010 at 15:32..
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  #36  
Old 12th February 2010, 16:25
jay cresswell jay cresswell is offline  
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Hell Antonio
Good to read your note
Even though I neither read nor write Portuguese, I still pick through your website, plus the others listed on the SMM blog
Your observation about the failure of governments to care for and conserve the maritime past are all too true, but I think that, of the three, the UK is the worst. As for Portugal, the perception here is that your country cares more about its maritime past than we do. I appreciate your point about the private sector. What Pascoal is doing is quite amazing.
SMM is looking wonderful and I'm looking forward to seeing her back under sail in a few months. I guess that will be the point at which serious work will start on Argus, subject to Pascoal having the funds of course
Regards
Jay
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  #37  
Old 12th February 2010, 23:13
werner_ju werner_ju is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric L View Post
Hi Werner,

----
Where did you get your information for Gazela's pre-1900 history? We are aware of several versions, all conflicting with each other. These different versions keep being repeated which gives each one credibility. To resolve this we would like to find original records, such as Lloyds or archives in Portugal.
----
Best Regards,

Eric
Hi Eric,

Sorry for letting you wait for my answer but I was off to New Zealand for the worst part of the northern winter, far away from my files.

The blogspots on the Portuguese cod fishing fleet have become a great source of information to me. It looks like there are still persons around with a profound knowledge about its history. Of course I cannot judge about the correctnes of these infos. Also I don’t speak Portuguese which means I depend on Google translation which usually provides quite funny results. However with a little practise, the occasional aid of a dictionary and the knowledge of some similar words from other languages the way is paved for understanding at least the core infos.

Well, there were at least two sailing vessels in the fishing fleet which entered a shipyard as small vessels and emerged as a lot bigger ones. These were the JÚLIA 1° or JÚLIA PRIMEIRO (same meaning) and the GAZELLA, later GAZELA PRIMEIRO.

Let’s begin with the JÚLIA because in
http://noseomar.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_archive.html (no longer working)
it was told why it happened.

Part of the original message from the above blog:
Alguns autores referem o ano de 1866, o que se torna muito pouco provável, porque os navios que referenciam como tendo ido à pesca do bacalhau não existiam nesse ano. Em 1872, a Casa Bensaúde & C.ª, com sede no Faial, mandou à pesca dois navios: a escuna "CREOULA" e o patacho "GASELLE". A Casa Bensaúde & Cª., em 1891, fundou a Parceria Geral de Pescarias. As condições climatéricas nas Ilhas não eram as melhores para a secagem do bacalhau e por isso as instalações da Empresa transferiram-se para a Azinheira Velha, no Rio Coina, perto do Barreiro. Nasceu em 1885, na Figueira da Foz uma nova Empresa, a Mariano & Irmãos, cujos proprietários eram os irmãos José e António Mariano Goulart, de origem Açoreana. Esta iniciativa partiu do seu primo, Capitão da Marinha Mercante, José da Cunha Ferreira, (que viria a dar o seu nome ao navio-motor, tipo CRCB, "CAPITÃO FERREIRA". Faleceu um anos antes e não chegou a conhecê-lo) natural dos Açores, da Ilha de São Jorge, há anos emigrado na América do Norte e a comandar navios da pesca do bacalhau. Ao ser enviado a Portugal, a comandar um veleiro com um carregamento de bacalhau, consignado à Casa Bensaúde & Cª., explicou aos seus primos as vantagens que poderiam obter se adquirissem e enviassem um navio aos Bancos da Terra Nova. Estes ouviram-no e de regresso à América comprou o navio com que tinha vindo a Portugal, ao qual foi dado o nome de "Júlia I" e ainda nesse ano de 1885, fez novo carregamento e veio descarregá-lo à Figueira da Foz. O "JÙLIA I" era um pequeno navio de 82 toneladas, armado em Hiate, mas como o Decreto de 1830 não permitia a construção de novas unidades, em 1885, o Hiate "Júlia I" foi encalhado e reconstrúido num estaleiro na Murraceira, Figueira da Foz, pelas mãos do mestre de construção naval Filipe Gonçalves Mendes, passando a ser um lugre de 218 toneladas. De um "gato" nasceu um "leão".

It tells us that JÚLIA 1° was a schooner (Hiate) of 82 tons and that a decree of 1830 forbade the building of new vessels (probably from a certain size on because small vessels like GAZELLA and JÚLIA 3° were built indeed). In 1885 JÚLIA I was reconstructed in a shipyard at Murraceira, Figuera da Foz bei the Master shipwright Filipe Gonçalves Mendes to a 3m-schooner of 218 tons. Out of the "cat" a "lion" was born.

I learned from other sources that during the time of the decree repairing and reconstructing was not forbidden.


The following blog (still working) tells us that JÚLIA 1° was built in 1853 in the United States as the schooner B.F. SPARKSO (1853 – 1884)
http://naviosenavegadores.blogspot.c...-foz-1900.html
According to this blog she was reconstructed in 1898 (quite a difference from 1885 to 1898). She went lost due to water ingress at the Virgin Rocks, Newfoundland in 1957.

http://museumaritimo.cm-ilhavo.pt/frota/navios.aspx
This site does not mention her increase in size at all. At least her change of rig is told and Essex (USA) as the location of the shipyard.


Now to GAZELA:
http://www.gazela.org/ships/gazela/gazela.htm
The GAZELLA of 1883 is the GASELLE in the first blog with no data except the owners given there. This site mentiones her rebuild in size, the measurements are the ones after her rebuild.

http://museumaritimo.cm-ilhavo.pt/frota/navios.aspx
The museum site just tells us that there was a rebuilt and that she received her name GAZELA I in 1900. The measurements are the old ones and the tonnage is new which obviously is an error.

http://noseomar.blogspot.com/

No longer available:
NAVIOS BACALHOEIROS QUE PERTENCERAM A BENSAUDE & CA. LDA. E À PARCERIA GERAL DE PESCARIAS

NAVIOS DE MADEIRA (wooden ships):

"GAZELA": Lugre Patacho de 180 tonaladas brutas construído em Cacilhas por J. A. Sampaio em 1883. Pertencia a Bensaude e Ca. Lda. em 1886 tendo passado para a Parceria Geral de Pescarias, Lda. em 1891. Um pedaço simbólico da quilha foi utilizado para o que se convencionou chamar uma reconstrução efectuada em 1900 nos Estaleiros J. M. Mendes de Setúbal, passando a chamar-se "GAZELA PRIMEIRO" com 325 toneladas brutas. Em 1938 foi reforçada a popa do navio tendo-se instalado um motor de propulsão Benz M.W.M de 180 HP. Reconstruído (substituição da sobre-quilha) em 1959 nos Estaleiros da Gafanha da Nazaré de Manuel Maria Mónica. Fez a última viagem à pesca do bacalhau em 1969. Foi vendido ao Philadelphia Maritime Museum em 1971.

This tells us what was used of the timber from the old GAZELA:
A symbolic piece of the keel was used for what is called a reconstruction in 1900 in Shipyards J. M. Mendes de Setúbal and renamed it "GAZELA FIRST" with 325 gross tons.

The 99.9% are just my interpretion of a symbolic piece.

I hope that the author gets knowledge of our discussion and hopefully sheds some more light on GAZELA’s history.

Best regards,
Werner
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  #38  
Old 21st February 2010, 21:17
Eric L Eric L is offline  
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Werner,

Quite fascinating. Thank you.

I shall investigate the blogs you cited.

Best Regards,

Eric
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  #39  
Old 27th February 2010, 02:59
Reinaldo Delgado Reinaldo Delgado is offline
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Hello everyone and good evening.
First of all I regret being unable to offer my colaboration in these forums due lack of time, but bearing in mind the subject white fleet, I would like to place myself to help clarifying some unreplyed questions.
Long are the days where the main topics used to be discussed in the blog «nos e o mar», in spite that capt Marques is still the person who holds the most complete and interesting information about the cod fishing ships.
However I would like to say that there are more information today than there was two years ago, therefore what I really need is time to look the archives existing to overcome doubts still existing.
I must confess that it is still difficult to find out the complete fleet registered in Lisbon although I am pleased to confirm that I am well aware of almost all the ships registered in the remainder ports. Also, I would like to inform that capt Bento Leite, living like myself in the north of the country, has a remarkable job done identifying the fleet which he keeps at home, because until the present date he regretably did not find any support for published his investigation.
I am very much hopefull to publish still this year a book with all the ships (both fishing and commercial) registered in Aveiro, from 1900 until 1975. This investigation is being done by me and capt Marques and surely all interested will be informed in due course.
At this point I am doing some researching which leads to the possibility that the portuguese are linked to the cod fishing since the 12th or 13th century which means that I still have a long way to go.
Enquiries are welcome via email <reimar50@gmail.com>
P.s.- I shall have a good look to the story of the "Gazella" with comments a.s.a.p. in this page.
Very best regards to you all,
Reinaldo Delgado, Oporto
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  #40  
Old 28th February 2010, 00:26
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TNeves TNeves is offline  
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Nice to "ear" that Reinaldo!

I would love to see that book coming out to the stores! Unfortunately we don't have that many blogs, or even a website/forum were we can publish and discuss our tradition, and everything else.

I have opened a blog to show my photos of Portuguese trawlers, and other ships that I can photograph in Aveiro's Port:

www.roda-do-leme.com

By the way, new pictures of SMM!

http://santamariamanuela.blogspot.com/

She is almost ready for sea trials!

Best Regards
__________________
Blog: Roda do Leme

Last edited by TNeves; 28th February 2010 at 01:07..
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  #41  
Old 5th March 2010, 05:47
ErictheViking ErictheViking is offline
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Hi,
My nickname is ErictheViking ,I am on the Reardon Smith Line (British Merchant marine company) thread as I was a radio officer with them.
However , I was also 2nd and 1st mate on the POLYNESIA AKA ARGUS for 1988 and 1992. Some might think that windjammer barefoot cruises spoiled the ARGUS but as Polynesia she gave enormous pleasure to thousands of passengers and maybe saved her for Portugal to now restore her.
I enjoyed my time on her and was always aware of her honorable history.
All who set foot on her are I'm sure thrilled that she will now be restored to original.
Regards , Eric.
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  #42  
Old 6th March 2010, 00:32
Reinaldo Delgado Reinaldo Delgado is offline
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To members Eric and Werner
Subject : The schooner Gazzela (the early years)

In order to follow above promise please be guided that until the moment I have checked the following publications :

Lloyds : 1888, 1922, 1930 until 1941, 1945 and 1946
Portugueses ship lists : 1887 and 1888, 1890 until 1892, 1895 until 1898, 1900 until 1903, 1906 until 1910, 1914 and 1915, 1917, 1925 until 1928, 1930 and 1931, 1933 until 1935, 1939, 1941 and 1942, 1944, 1946, 1953, 1956 and 1963

Regretably is still missing the very beginning although it is already possible to get some conclusions, such as the very many structural alterations on board during the investigated pages.

The change of name :
Initially she was named "Gazella", 18??-1913
Later she became "Gazela", 1914-1930
After she was rhe "Gazela Iº", 1930-1942
Later changed to "Gazela Primeiro", 1942-1971

From the beginning she reply by the call sign H.G.V.Q.
In early lists there was no tonnage only 179,990 Cbm (Cubic meters)
classified schooner 2 masts

The first alteration in structure indicate rebuilding to have occured in 1892, showing Grt 164,01 tons and 464,595 Cbm.
The second alteration in structure happened indeed in 1901 because in 1902 the figures are substantially increased to Grt 325,48 tons and 921,114 Cbm.
Apparently she was enlarged in Lenght -Pp- from 27,2 mtrs to 47,8 mtrs and the beam was also enlarged from 6,7 mtrs to 8,2 mtrs, being then classified as a 3 masts schooner.

According to 1914's list her details show Grt 325,48 Nrt 309,21 and the lenght Pp 41,70 mtrs and beam 8,22 mtrs. Further alterations and consequent rebuilding seem to have taken place in 1930 and 1938, when she has been motorized with a MWM (Mannheim) diesel engine, 4Ci 290rpm 180 Bhp developing max. 6-5 kn/h.

I would like now to express the feeling that the "Gazella" could have been build in the UK as "Gazzelle" bearing in mind that the Portuguese Government had forbidden the building of new ships. It is my opion that the purchase of the "Gazella" could have followed the purchase of the 2 masts schooner "Creoula" build in Brixham, during 1862.

I shall return to this subject as soon I can find further information.

Best regards and a good week-end
Reinaldo Delgado - blog «navios e navegadores»
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  #43  
Old 6th March 2010, 13:16
jay cresswell jay cresswell is offline  
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Eric the Viking
You make a very valid point
Happenstance all three sisters have survived, which is incredible
I am in little doubt that, but for Capt Mike ???? of Windjammer, Argus might not be with us today. OK, so there are critics of the changes made. However, SMM went through even more radical surgery to keep her working as a motor dory carrier
It really is astonishing how all three have come through the past 70 or so years and are in the process of being reborn, much as per their original spec, while allowing for fundamentally different roles
Bravo to the Portuguese
Unless it's naval, that just about doesn't happen in the UK, except for Cutty Sark, Glenlee and very few others
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  #44  
Old 6th March 2010, 17:01
Reinaldo Delgado Reinaldo Delgado is offline
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Hello Mr Cresswell,
Now that you mention one of the most familiar ships in the world, did you know that the 3 masts schooner "Ferreira" (according to the Portuguese registration), ex "Cutty Sark" made a campaign to the Grand Banks with cod fishermen in 1919. This happened due the shortage of ships in the country, bearing in mind that a large number of them were destroyed by German U-boats during WWI. Capt. A. Marques from Ilhavo was the man in charge during that voyage.
Best regards,
Reinaldo Delgado
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  #45  
Old 11th March 2010, 10:33
jay cresswell jay cresswell is offline  
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Hi Reinaldo

I did not know that Cutty Sark did a Grand Banks voyage whilst in Portuguese ownership as Ferreira

I have the two volume book about her by CN Longridge ... he built the model of CS that resides in the UK's Science Museum

A technical point ... Ferreira was by 1919 rigged as a barquentine rather than schooner. That was the result of being dismasted off Cape Hope during WWI. The work was carried out in Cape Town. She arrived back in UK in 1922 rigged that way

Meanwhile, SMM is expected to start trials next week, accordidng to the website
Should be some brilliant pictures of her under sail very soon

Jay
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  #46  
Old 1st May 2010, 13:28
Reinaldo Delgado Reinaldo Delgado is offline
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Hello everyone !
I am back in the forum just to inform that the SMM is leaving the Spanish yard tomorrow, the 2nd of May, being expected to arrive at Aveiro between 3/4 hours pm.
Like many other people already advised of her arrival, I surely intend to be there to present a memorable return to her homeport.
Best regards to you all.
Reinaldo Delgado
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  #47  
Old 1st May 2010, 13:59
Reinaldo Delgado Reinaldo Delgado is offline
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Hello again,
For those gentleman interested in the "Gazela Primeiro" history, I have been checking almost all documents available, as promised previously and I reached the conclusion that she has sailed under the portuguese flag at least since 1874, being registered in the port of Horta, Faial Island, in the Azores.
Bearing in mind that those days she was named "Gazelle", I believe that she was built
sometime around the eighteen sixties and most likely somewhere in France.
Also I realize that at 1883 she did some repairs in Lisbon and was rebuilt between 1901 until 1902 at Setubal, however in spite of the outstanding transformation she remained using the very same call sign, therefore being still the same ship.
I am still hopeful being able to find the Lloyds Register of that early period or other identical publication to obtain the missing details.
Further I would like to inform you that she was bought by Bensaude, Horta, for whale fishing whose activity took place until the remodelation at Setubal, since when she sailed to the Grand Banks.
Best regards,
Reinaldo Delgado
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  #48  
Old 1st May 2010, 21:35
jay cresswell jay cresswell is offline  
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Brilliant to see SMM looking so fine
Wonder when Pascoal will make a start of the restoration of ARGUS
I envy anyone who will be Aveiro to meet SMM when she arrives back home
Best regards
Jay
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  #49  
Old 3rd May 2010, 13:52
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TNeves TNeves is offline  
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For those that weren't able to be there yesterday, I would like to show to you some photos taken by me:

www.roda-do-leme.com

Hope you like it! Must say that was a fantastic day! Very windy though.
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  #50  
Old 3rd May 2010, 23:32
werner_ju werner_ju is offline  
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Tiago,

Thanks a lot for the pictures !

What a difference from the bare hulk I’ve seen at São Jacinto 12 years ago. Congratulations to PASCOAL and the Portuguese Nation for this fine vessel.

Always fair winds,
Werner
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