USS FITZGERALD/ACX CRYSTAL collision (merged threads) - Page 3 - Ships Nostalgia
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USS FITZGERALD/ACX CRYSTAL collision (merged threads)

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  #51  
Old 18th June 2017, 20:27
John Cassels John Cassels is offline  
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Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
I was almost caught in the Channel one night. Ships ahead, plenty of ship to my starboard. A rogue ship decided to cross my bow. I was making 23 knots. I phone the E/R and said, "I'm stopping!" Pushed the stop button on the bridge control. Then started the horns... a lot! The rogue passed ahead of my and the other ships to my starboard started to blowing their horns. My own ship came down to about eight knots and started the revs again. The lesson? Well four years before I was on the sea trials on the same ship. I saw it go from Full to Stop and then Full Astern from 24 knots. It was night to know that I could rely on it needed! The idea of trying VHF was useless.

Don't believe you did that , pushing the stop buttons on the BC unit
without calling the old man.

If you really had to do that then you left your response to the situation far too late,
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  #52  
Old 18th June 2017, 22:14
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Originally Posted by John Cassels View Post
Don't believe you did that , pushing the stop buttons on the BC unit
without calling the old man.

If you really had to do that then you left your response to the situation far too late,

Of course it was too late... when an idiot decides to cross a lane right in front of me. The OM was fast asleep at 0500. The other ship was on my port bow and I was overtaking. He started to cross across my bow and there was no room to turn to anyone to starboard.

Have you never altered or stopped when you wanted? That is what the telegraph was for. The E/R was manned. If you don't believe me... ask George Morrison. He was on the bridge with me. He was taking the ship over from later that day at le Havre. He said to me, "I have never touched the engine before!"
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  #53  
Old 18th June 2017, 22:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
Of course it was too late... when an idiot decides to cross a lane right in front of me. The OM was fast asleep at 0500. The other ship was on my port bow and I was overtaking. He started to cross across my bow and there was no room to turn to anyone to starboard.

Have you never altered or stopped when you wanted? That is what the telegraph was for. The E/R was manned. If you don't believe me... ask George Morrison. He was on the bridge with me. He was taking the ship over from later that day at le Havre. He said to me, "I have never touched the engine before!"
Almost exactly the same thing happened to me one night on the east side of Gedser Rev in the Baltic. I was close in to the buoys on the landward side heading south and overtaking everything at 22+ knots when a tanker heading in the same direction about 3/4 mile and a few points off my port bow altered some 70 degrees to starboard right in front of me. I daren't alter to starboard because of the shallows and poor marks, had a ferry about half a mile on the port quarter doing a fair turn of speed herself so all there was left to do was stop.
Thankfully that class of ship had great manoeuvrability and could slow/speed up very quickly, so all that was required was to bring the telegraph back to stop and the speed just fell off her.
Gave me something of a fright all the same, however the old man bought me a dram as consolation later on!
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Last edited by James_C; 18th June 2017 at 22:43..
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  #54  
Old 18th June 2017, 23:22
Steven Lamb Steven Lamb is offline  
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My sympathies are for the missing and those confirmed dead, their loved ones and friends. RIP. They probably did not even know what happened! Interesting track record of the 'box boat', that slight port course (probably scheduled) alteration obviously just minutes before the s**t hit the fan. However I will await more information if we get it before the enquiry before forming a concrete opinion.
Agree wholeheartedly mate - good post
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  #55  
Old 18th June 2017, 23:58
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Originally Posted by James_C View Post
Thankfully that class of ship had great manoeuvrability and could slow/speed up very quickly, so all that was required was to bring the telegraph back to stop and the speed just fell off her.
Gave me something of a fright all the same, however the old man bought me a dram as consolation later on!

Turning 125 RPM sea speed. Hit Full Ahead and the revs come right back to 100 RPM Manoeuvring then hit STOP. The engine did not stop so just go back to Full sea speed.

The OM never gave me a dram, but went straight back to his bunk.

Waiting to ask the OM for permission is the kind of accident that causes the sinking of ships like Costa Concordia.
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  #56  
Old 19th June 2017, 02:48
ecb ecb is offline  
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For many years I have appreciated the Deck and Engine Dept who got me home safe and sound from my time at sea never thought about it at the time I was in the Catering Dept and thoughts were some were else.
As to the U.S. Ship hope it did'nt have Nuclear Weapons!! I saw another ship had a collision with a Japanese Fishing Boat
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  #57  
Old 19th June 2017, 03:30
herky herky is offline  
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call me a cynic but as us navy is involved the one thing that will come out of it was ""It wasnt their fault""
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  #58  
Old 19th June 2017, 04:10
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call me a cynic but as us navy is involved the one thing that will come out of it was ""It wasnt their fault""
Yes, you are a cynic. We must wait for the final analysis but, I am waiting to hear why that box boat was making all those peculiar U turns.
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  #59  
Old 19th June 2017, 05:33
BoB Vick BoB Vick is offline  
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wasting time waiting for pilot may be
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  #60  
Old 19th June 2017, 07:27
Robert Hilton Robert Hilton is offline  
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Ship on my starboard bow, what are your intentions? Ho hum.
I intend to follow the regulations. How about you?

I have used the above when called from far off.
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  #61  
Old 19th June 2017, 07:29
Colin P Wood Colin P Wood is online now  
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Typical Western Approaches gail and big swell. Greek slowly overtaking me from port quarter. Getting too close and he runs up 2 black balls. So someone on bridge. I take a turn to starboard to avoid collision, very heavy roll and engine stops. We are now heading straight for Ushant light house with the wind astern.
Chinese crew all on deck with lifejackets on. No order had to be given. Midship bridge and aft ER, no sensible information from ER so old man sent me down to find out what was happening. All engineers standing around control position. Informed that 3rd engineer had been occupied elsewhere and had not pumped up day tanks, so big roll ended up sucking a pipe full of air. Told them to blow whistle if they got the donk going and returned to bridge, Apparently the 4th. Engineer followed me up and when he saw how close we were to Lighthouse, his feet did not touch a step on the way down, where he told them he could see the curtains on the lighthouse. Engines running full ahead by the time I returned to bridge.
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  #62  
Old 19th June 2017, 07:37
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Originally Posted by Samsette View Post
Yes, you are a cynic. We must wait for the final analysis but, I am waiting to hear why that box boat was making all those peculiar U turns.
It depends on where the point of impact was I suppose, but the track showed a long initial straight course, then a sharp turn to starboard followed by a long loop back to the region of that fist sharp turn, and finally a circle. Possibly returning to the damaged destroyer to offer assistance? (Or to have another go at it!).

As to the AIS I am told that warships regularly turn it off when at sea, I suppose for the obvious reason that they wouldn't want a potential enemy knowing their position, course, and speed. Even so, apparently the night was clear with good visibility but the box boat still managed to tee-bone the destroyer. Knowing little about ship handling I wait intrigued to see what the inquiry into the accident will find, but warships are not supposed to be easy to see and, I believe, are designed to offer a minimal radar signature, so perhaps that was a contributory factor?

Another point -- never having sailed on a box boat I have looked at many photos and videos of them, and have often wondered how on earth anyone on the bridge can see what's in front of them with all of those containers stacked high above the maindeck. Do they have to rely upon radar to see anything closer than some miles?
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  #63  
Old 19th June 2017, 07:48
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Some excellent collision avoidance skills being demonstrated....unmanned ships????
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  #64  
Old 19th June 2017, 09:55
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Originally Posted by ART6 View Post
It depends on where the point of impact was I suppose, but the track showed a long initial straight course, then a sharp turn to starboard followed by a long loop back to the region of that fist sharp turn, and finally a circle. Possibly returning to the damaged destroyer to offer assistance? (Or to have another go at it!).

As to the AIS I am told that warships regularly turn it off when at sea, I suppose for the obvious reason that they wouldn't want a potential enemy knowing their position, course, and speed. Even so, apparently the night was clear with good visibility but the box boat still managed to tee-bone the destroyer. Knowing little about ship handling I wait intrigued to see what the inquiry into the accident will find, but warships are not supposed to be easy to see and, I believe, are designed to offer a minimal radar signature, so perhaps that was a contributory factor?

Another point -- never having sailed on a box boat I have looked at many photos and videos of them, and have often wondered how on earth anyone on the bridge can see what's in front of them with all of those containers stacked high above the maindeck. Do they have to rely upon radar to see anything closer than some miles?
I think you may have hit the 'nail on the head' Art when it comes to minimal RADAR signature and the Warship AIS being turned off.
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  #65  
Old 19th June 2017, 11:34
sternchallis sternchallis is offline  
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Very good Colin, liked that.

Reminds me when we were at anchor off some Brazilian port, plenty of room to swing.

Got permission off the OM to start dismantling one of the units of the Stbd Doxford, Port one was ok.
Had the junior on nights making a start.
Panic buzzer goes from ER. Romper suit on sharpish and slide down the handrails to bottom plates. Both telegraphs ringing but Stbd engine in too many bits.
Few minutes Port ready to run.

It appeared a Greek ship again, anchored too close to us,started to swing and drag, bridge in darkness.

After we manouvred the 3rd said afterwards , he didn't know which ER ladder to go down ours or the Greeks, we were that close.
(Comments like that you don't get inshore jobs)
And we were a 1958 old banger, but British professionalism saved the day.

Last edited by sternchallis; 19th June 2017 at 11:38..
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  #66  
Old 19th June 2017, 12:17
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Earlier posting:


"The only note I did wrote down was the position where she started to make the U turns at Posn: 34 31 N 139 04 E (just south of Oshima). If we can find the position of the collision will tell is the U turns were before or after the collision. Wish I had written it down... including the times. All I remember was that I remember that she slowed at some point AFTER the U turns. At some other point after the U turns and at some point NE of Oshima, the track was lost."


Some new information:

Collision at 0230 hrs Local. Position 34 32N 139 05E

Comparing position and times the "U" Turns seem to have been done AFTER the collision.

Appears to be a situation of 'overtaking'. Which one was the overtaking vessel? Was the container ship coming up behind the warship and could not see the warship on radar, AIS, no deck lights with only stern light? Perhaps the OOW on the warship did not see the container ship and miss the steaming light and red sidelight?

One thing for sure. If you have a 'stealth' ship and you go about the seas with your AIS shut down, you had better have a good lookout for EVERYTHING that floats.
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  #67  
Old 19th June 2017, 13:08
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Does anyone notice the similarity between the USS Porter?
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  #68  
Old 19th June 2017, 14:13
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Thanks re USS PORTER.

Listen the inquest and the audio. Scary.
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  #69  
Old 19th June 2017, 17:13
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This morning - 6/19 - online news says collision occurred @ 0130 but not reported to Japanese CG by container ship until 0220. Speculation about what occurred during those 50 minutes.

Greg Hayden
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  #70  
Old 19th June 2017, 17:56
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Admiral said on TV this morning that the Destroyer is sliced down almost to the keel.
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  #71  
Old 19th June 2017, 18:41
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Does Rule of the Road still apply? I know windows were obsolete about oinks years ago, but I thought even an up to date US warship and a modern boxboat could figure out who was give way and who could stand on.
Then again, the man who can stop accidents hasn't been invented.
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  #72  
Old 19th June 2017, 18:42
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Art said "Or to have another go at it." I am still chuckling to myself.

I do agree with your assessment having hit the nail on the head, as Chadburn says.
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  #73  
Old 19th June 2017, 18:54
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Sounds more like both vessels' watchs were doing their jobs.
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  #74  
Old 19th June 2017, 19:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kewl dude View Post
This morning - 6/19 - online news says collision occurred @ 0130 but not reported to Japanese CG by container ship until 0220. Speculation about what occurred during those 50 minutes.

Greg Hayden

Why didn't the USS ship report the collision to the CG?

The ACX CRYSTAL made a report at CG 50 minutes. Possibly trying to find the ship that had been in collision with and couldn't see because AIS was 'off'.

The container ship made a sudden turn shortly before the collision
The route of the container ship ACX Crystal, provided by vessel-tracking service MarineTraffic, shows that the ship made a sudden turn around 1:30 a.m., as if possible trying to avoid something, before continuing eastward.



The AIS track of the ACX CRYSTAL shows a sudden turn... and shows it was STARBOARD turn.... away from a ship. Looks like the destroyer tried to run ahead of the container ship when it should have passed astern.

Photo of the ASX CRYSTAL shows typical container and the bridge is quite high. Visibility from bridge over the bows looks reasonable. OK, might not see a small fishing boat right ahead, but a 500 ft long warship was a good 'target'.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ACX CRYSTAL 17.jpg (125.0 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by Stephen J. Card; 19th June 2017 at 19:50..
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  #75  
Old 19th June 2017, 19:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rogers View Post
Admiral said on TV this morning that the Destroyer is sliced down almost to the keel.

I think he might means it sliced DOWN to the KEEL.... as in 'bilge keel', not to the centreline keel.
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