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Engine makers

63K views 179 replies 68 participants last post by  oldgoat1947 
#1 ·
I live in South Manchester. In Poynton there is a very interesting engine museum whose moving spirit had an honour recently. There are all sorts of engines on display - many of them operational. I am not an engineer but am struck by the fact that there used to be about six engine builders in the Manchester area - Crossleys, Gardners, Mirlees etc. Now there are none !
In Hazel Grove near Stockport there used to be the Mirlees factory. They were bought out by MAN and shut down. Most of the site now consists of about six office blocks - all empty !!!
I was told however that Mirlees still have an office on the site and employ engineers who service engines worldwide. And this is the rub - they make more money now than they ever did when they manufactured engines !
It's a funny old world !
 
#76 ·
Hi
Reading this thread gives me more than a little pride as it does you. We "did our time" and sailed our ships in a time of great demand. I recall that Europe, Britain and others took a pasting in WWII. What more natural than to rebuild. Good on us we wus there and ready to be involved and at a time when the evolving technologies were on our doorstep. That made us famous. Such as Doxford's , Sulzer Bros. Mirrlees, and all the others, were there. What a a time it was.. I agree most whole heartedly. I was there too, however time and a dollar have moved on also. Unfortunately those who we call master have forgotten us and our prowess. I see that ...They can build (better or cheaper) than us. Let them do it. Or the other one ... If it costs more than a dollar you can't. have it. Unfortunatly pride do goeth before a fall. I am retired now but had a rare old merry go round before I stopped . (Even now I'm still doing something). To be useing my skills I have changed jobs several times,keeping that base knowledge that I was given as an apprentice. Happily I can say I did get a chance to pass on some of my skill and knowledge. I do mourn the passing of the technology and the people and see that too many are "standing on the backs of giants" and not attempting to become giants themselves.
As an apprentice I worked many a long hour on some steam engine or some boiler. As a seaman, every ship I got was diesel. There were many steam auxy's. Finally , when I came to Australia, I built jet aircraft turbines.
What a strange world.
Before I retired I was asked to be an engineer and look after an historical paddle steamer.
To teach wannabees about steam, boilers, engines, links, eccentrics. gave me that feeling that all was not lost and some who were interested would pick up where we left off. I saw this again when I visited England and met with several enthusiasts at several "steaming days".
All is not lost gentlemen, Just changed. Like old warhorses our ears pick up at the the trumpets call.
 
#79 ·
I know that it's going back in time but the Sirron engines built by the Newbury Diesel Company, mainly for the Everard Coasters were robust and reliable. Two stroke reversing diesels. They ceased manufacturing in the late sixties and I guess most if not all the old ships are now gone along with their engines although two remain unloved in the diesel fire museum ex MV Balmoral, now fitted with two Danish Grenaa engines, German gearboxes and Singapore made props.
I have had some experience with marine diesels in the RN. My favourite little engine was the Foden FD6 which powered the smaller generators on the old Ton class minesweepers. The old straight 8's on the A class diesel electic, thumping away and the screaming ASR range of supercharged V16 diesels. Both of these engine types can be seen in preservation. The former on the submarine Alliance at Gosport and the latter on the submarine Ocelot at Chatham. The ASR diesel certainly needed a lot of air when on full tilt dived. A few minutes with the snort head below the surface and your ear drums were sitting on your shoulders. Those were the days.....
 
#80 ·
As an ex Ton man you may be pleased to know that the Deltic engine live's on as they are now using a privately owned Deltic Loco to haul heavy freight in the N.E. and I believe that her spare's are ex Kellington.
 
#83 ·
A significant number if the NZS/Federal ships had that arrangement. The system was used as it gave two engine reliability as well as single screw efficiency and the added advantage of rapid ahead and astern movements.
There were some impressive moments on the Bridge when after a long ocean passage the stbd engine was stopped and run astern. If they were a little exuberant down in the ER there would be a very loud explosion from the funnel and a small mushroom cloud.
Nearly killed a number of pilots that were getting on in years with that trick on the Northumberland!
 
#86 ·
We had bit of trouble leaving Marseilles while in manoeuvering mode.A new second mate didn't know the set up to get full power,and we down below didn't know we were being blown onto a fully laden tanker tied up to the breakwater; no explosion luckily or perhaps I wouldn't be writing this.
Jim Garnett
 
#87 ·
Boys boys where are the Pamatrada, GE, Bacocks, Foster Wheeler, Brotherhood, Allens, David Brown and a host of European Turbine marine steam turbine, boiler and gearbox manufactures Gone not forgotting the auxilary pumps by Weirs and Sulzer. They all produced gods engines, not a pisss fart machine that need a big hammer. Gentlemen in White Boiler Suits? Howaz that for a googly.
 
#88 ·
British Railways/British Rail used English Electric (CS-series?), Sulzer, and Paxman for many of the locos built in the late 50s-early 60s. I think the Paxman ones were withdrawn quickly due to problems with the main engine; they were found to be dirty, and I think, prone to siezing or catching fire. However, the use of Valenta/Ventura in the High Speed Train of the mid 70's was very successful, though I think the HST remaining power cars are now re-engined.
2750 hp Sulzers had, I think, teething problems though later rectified, but may have been de-rated later. The 'Deltic' was used as a two-engine set up in one loco very successfully, but I think the engine was swapped if faulty rather than repaired in situ.
The English Electric series was seemingly successful, being used widely in different power ratings and cylinder numbers; one class of locos was re-engined with EE after the original Mirlees engines gave trouble. These engines were, though, I think refurbished and re-used at sea.
Maybach engines were built in the UK under licence for some locos; I think MAN were likewise built under licence.

Just a few notes from some-one interested in railways who used to be at sea (on deck).

Martyn (loco)
 
#92 ·
Ah, the memories this thread has bought back! As an apprentice in the late 60's-early 70's I worked on many types of marine diesel (Gotaverken, MAN, B&W, Doxford, Allen, Fairbanks Morse, Caterpillars, Ito, Daihatsu, (and a few types I am sure to have forgotten) as the various ships would stop over in Wellington. Joined the RNZNVR and got to play with supercharged Foden Mks 1 & 6, steam recips on the minesweepers, and the occasional boiler & turbine job (Blackpool) for added experience.

Then went to sea on little Leith/Dundee-built bulk carriers that had:
1. Russell Newbury gennies and 2 x British Polar mains with supercharger piston on the front, along with nine ton electro-magnetic couplings between the engine and intermediate shaft (don't forget to put the excitation on before starting or the mercury will go everywhere!)
2. English Electric 8RK main engines (always threw timing chains) x 2, with diesel electric propulsion, twin screw, and Paxman V4 gennies (would only start from one position!). Eventually got so temperamental we sent it back to Blue Circle Cement, UK, in 1979.
3. 3 x Bellis & Morcomb 22 Standard engines (600 v dc diesel electric propulsion, feeding to a 1200 hp double-wound propulsion motor on single shaft), along with a 3 cyl, 100 hp Bellis & Morcomb gennie, and another in the other corner that I cannot remember the type of, but was about 50 or 60 Kw.
I still have 2 pistons from the 22 Std engines - now powdercoated, and sitting on my deck - they make good seats!
4. 2 x Ruston 12RK3CM mains, plus 2 x Paxman RPHCZ. The mains have hardly stopped in 32 years, but are getting a bit like grandad's axe, with so many parts having been changed (to be expected!).
5. Now at sea on Caterpillar 3516B V16 mains, with Cat 3406 gennies. Have only just done 6,000 hrs on the mains, so no major dramas yet. Ship is not UMS, so everyone gets a good sleep!
6. Just come off a month on a virtually brand new Soton-based ship fitted with six Caterpillar-MaK's - all 430 mm bore (bought a book in the bookshop onboard that stated the ship was fitted with Wartsila 40S engines, but showed a photo of Cat-MaK!). Was not down below long enough to really form an opinion of the job, but there was heaps of new technology.
Skilly
 
#93 ·
Recently in the Gallery a photo of a 1955 built VTE engined vessel appeared which left me wondering when was the last VTE built by a British Company. Smith's built their last VTE in 1955 and as it was the last of the VTE's built by S.D. those that worked on it (like myself) witnessed popped their initial's on the side's of the Bedplate. Anybody out there either worked/served on a VTE built after that?
 
#94 ·
4. 2 x Ruston 12RK3CM mains, plus 2 x Paxman RPHCZ. The mains have hardly stopped in 32 years, but are getting a bit like grandad's axe, with so many parts having been changed (to be expected!).

Skilly 57
Would this by any chance be the cement carrier "Golden Bay" on which I did the alignments in the Caledon yard, Dundee round about 1979. She was destined for NZ.

Derek
 
#95 ·
Hi Derek,
Go to the top of the class!! Right first time.
I have included a link below to the site where I have written up most of this ship's history, (and the other NZ cement ships operated by Golden Bay Cement) but she was about the last vessel out of Robb Caledon (572) and was built like the proverbial outhouse.
She's been operated by the same company since 1979, and only now are they starting to look for a replacement.
Skilly


http://www.oceaniashippingforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=145
 
#96 ·
The End

Gents,
Having worked for Rustons from 2002 to 2006 I will let you in on the history. 2002 we moved from Newton Le Willows The Vulcan Works a factory and village set up by Stephenson. We set up at Hazel Grove and the only engines built in the factory were the Paxman YP185 suppose to replace the Valenta in the class 53. The RK215 was produced for the Iran Railway along with Syria, Sri-lanka and Malaysia. These are now made in Iran after UIC testing. It still holds the record as the worlds most poerfull traction engine. The RK280V20 has been remouved to Ausburg Germany again the worlds most powerfull medium speed engine. The RK270 is now made under licence in the Dallian locomotive works China. The machine tools endeed up in Korea. So as an island nation we do not have a engine manufacturer. Quality management from all governments.
 
#100 ·
I came across this 19 minute film Polar Power about British Polar from 1974:

http://ssa.nls.uk/film.cfm?fid=3268

Ideal for marine engineers who can't get off to sleep....I noticed a couple of odd things: the plastic-sheeted frames used in the factory to isolate engine building areas. Any ideas why? An attempt to create a clean area, or perhaps to keep the heat in....

Also, at 12:50 the V-12 engine arrives in France - it looks like one of the valve covers has fallen off! :eek:
 
#103 ·
Thanks Peter for the film about British Polar Engines. Like Jocko I also served my apprenticeship with British Polar. 1965 - 1970. It was expected that once your time was out that you went to sea. As was said to me " We have taught you the basics now go to sea and become an engineer".

Happy days
 
#102 · (Edited)
My experience with Fairbanks-Morse engines was that they were loud, cranky and hard to do regular maintenance on them. The biggest problem was the outboard generator was to close to the skin of the skin of the ship. During an overhaul of one of the Generators a fuel leak developed on the remaining engine. In order to fix the fuel leak we had to transfer the load to the shaft generator before shutting down the engine online. This normally wouldn't been a problem but we were at anchor and the Deck Watch did not call the Captain. So when we clutched in the Main Engine to run the shaft generator with the CP at zero pitch and about 100 rpm the Captain ran up to the bridge in his PJ's thinking he sleep through his wake up call and we had orders to leave.

While we where doing the overhaul of the inboard engine the person guiding the vertical shaft in place got stuck in the crankcase. The longer he was in the crankcase the more bloated he got an could not slide pass the vertical shaft. So the engine gang started to close up the crankcase doors leaving him with only one way out of the engine. In the process of climbing out of the engine he torn up his clothes and cut up his chest legs and arms.

Joe
 
#105 ·
While we where doing the overhaul of the inboard engine the person guiding the vertical shaft in place got stuck in the crankcase. The longer he was in the crankcase the more bloated he got an could not slide pass the vertical shaft. So the engine gang started to close up the crankcase doors leaving him with only one way out of the engine. In the process of climbing out of the engine he torn up his clothes and cut up his chest legs and arms.

Joe
Reminds me of my cadet workshop experience time in Hawthorn Leslie when we were building the one and only Doxford Seahorse prototype. One of the fitter's mates, a somewhat intellectually-challenged individual who rejoiced in the nickname of The Blob, was delegated to clean some machining swarf from the bottom of the crankcase. He managed to slide in around the crankshaft, but when he was finished he found there were no hand- or footholds to enable him to climb out. His requests for a hand to climb out got more and more vociferous as knocking-off time approached, which , of course, his workmates thought was hilarious. By the time I left the volume and profanity had reached astronomic proportions. Someone must have relented eventually because all was back to normal the next morning.(*))
 
#104 ·
Hello everyone - my first post here.

Does anyone have any leads on Gleniffer engine spares ?

I know they were taken over by Kelvin in Glasgow.

I need some piston rings for a 1930s DB2 ( 4 3/4 " dia bore), which we have in a narrow boat here in the UK.

I gather Gleniffers were quite popular in Australia and New Zealand. Used as lifeboat engines, as well as for small ships.

Thanks for any help.
 
#106 ·
Thanks for reviving this thread. Brings back memories of a lifetime.

I owe an interesting and fruitful career in engineering to an early encounter at age five or so with a two stroke Petters that use to scare the s*** out of me with its backfiring every half minute or so. One day i saw it dismantled with failed bearings and there and then I decided to be like the guy who trounced that beast. Later in life I had many encounters with many of the names that appear in this thread, including the last Sulzer RND** (I still think it was 105).

Further up bri445 asked about English Electric. I had some experience with the last of the EE fullagars at an underground station from the late 1930's. They were good workhorses that did their job when called for. Everything in the pics is EE made.

If i manage I'll attach two photos of the plant, still all there, but crying for mercy. Its underground at a place known during the war as "the caves". Maybe someone heard of that.

Rgds.
 

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#108 · (Edited)
These are land based units in a power station, British services, later DOE as I recall.

There used to be nine engines. Three early units with air blast injection. They were scrapped before I got there. The other six were a later model, three installed between 1934 and 1939 (in preparation for war evidently), three during the war. Fullagar square-four opposed piston, three pairs of liners.

Everything inside the plant was English Electric, to answer an earlier request by bri445.
 

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