[lagerstedt]

Can any member advise me on what caused the crew problems and why on the MV Wainui in the 1960's. I think the problems started with one of the Motorman and lead, I think, to the ship being taken of the far east run and sold.

Regards
Blair
NZ

[PKiddell]

HI Blair. the dispute arose over the 2nd.Eng. refusing to engage a motorman put forward by the Seamans Union, prior to this both the Mates and the Engineers were allowed to make a selection of who they wished to engage,this of course meant that the stirrers found it hard to ship out unless there was no one else available. With the Union putting a man forward for engagement it meant that there no free selection, and in this case the 2nd. declined to employ the motor man offered. This was the basic reason for the dispute. Being forced to employ someone you didn't want to or felt would be unsuitable. There were lots more meetings involving the Union,Institute,and Guild and the Goverment but nothing was resolved and the Wainui finally sailed for Singapore on the 5th March after being held up for 141 days. The ship was then sold to B.I. and the Union Co. withdrew from the Asian service.

Peter Kiddell

[Hammerfan]

Thats the biggest load of tripe ive read.Lets get the facts right.It was a direct hit at our roster system.The union had no involvement as to where you were on the the roster.Bobby kidd the motorman that was involved was at the top of the roster so he took the job.The second engineer refused him and it went from there.Before the roster system you stood for jobs in line and you were picked.Some seaman spent mths ashore because there faces didnt fit. Who had families and no income.I was a friend of Bobby Kidds you wouldnt have met a nicer bloke.He is also dead and buried.Hope someone else can add to the Wainui dispute roster system etc.cheers Bazza.

[shad]

I think that you are right hammerfan,I sailed with Bobby Kid and he was a good joker.I also sailed with the 2nd years later and found him to be o.k. too. We had the same problem in the cooks & stwds union,the old chopping block it was called.When we started the roster, the first day the "Tarawera" was the first call, Billy Weems was wanting the "Tarawera" in the galley,and he was the longest on the corner I was next longest on the corner,when the job was called up stood Billy,"Knocked back",no one else stood, this went on for Three days,in the end he got the job.I got the next one after six weeks sitting around,I had stood for everything going,with a wife and three kids I came close to giving it away,but stayed till 87.

[raybnz]

Did you guys ever come across a chap with the surname of Price. He was in the deck department. I am not sure now whether his first name was Frank or Kevin as there was two brothers in the family who went to sea. One was with the USS and the other with NZS. I grew up close to where they lived and new them both well.

[Paul J Burke]

Yes Hammerfan, i can recall the days prior to the Roster System coming into play. you lined up like cattle, and the Skipper or Mate would eye the candidates up and down, before making a selection.I had my first experience of this system in Dunedin in 1965,"lining up" for a Deckboys job on the Kaitoke.there were 3 of us in the "line up", and i was unfortunate to miss out!!! what a degrading experience it was as ,the Skipper-Big Jim Robbie- towered over all the candidates, and gave us all the "once over" prior to making his"selection'.the Roster System was like a lottery. you could be number 1, or number 21, when you registerted. it was a more dignified system, and you had a reasonable choice of jobs.you could remain at number 1 as long as the jobs underneath you were filled, otherwise you got "shanghied"!!!

[lagerstedt]

Thanks guys. Your replies have given me a better inside to the system used in hiring back then. I guess it was similar to the English pool system. I currently work in an industry which has a senorlity list and it, I beleve, has its meits and draw backs during our annual layoff and recall.

Regards
Blair
NZ

Regards

[Hammerfan]

Dont know about that one Paul.I would have probably agreed with Big Robby there.haha.Be over your way next year have to catch up and have a beer.Cheers mate Bazza.

[shad]

Ah! Big Jim Robbie,he came screaming down to the ch/stwd's cabin in Sydney one time and told him to stop the beer order(days before the bars went in),a couple of the lads had been stopped at the gate with ships stores,a pound of butter and a couple of bangers,something like that,they had been invited to a barbie I think,we gave him awhile to settle down then went up to him again and he let us have our beer,two bottles per man per day I think.He used to take his motor bike with him,an old english job I think.He was big alright,he carried up the gangway in Dunedin.

[RAY LUSTY]

Yes Paul. I got a DR one trip ( got a couple in my day and deserved them), but this one was unfair. Anyway, I copped it sweet, but I was on the corner for months and took the Kaitangata. Good ship, good crowd, but I'd had enough of colliers. The roster system wasbetter than the line system, but it still had it's flaws.
Sad to hear about Bobby Kidd. A hard man but a great bloke and an excellent mentor to us younger ones.
Do you remember the other Bucko's hangouts, The Loft in Vulcan Lane and the Quintet in Queen St? A ton of good lookin woman round then!
Ray.

[arfera]

Originally Posted by PKiddell

HI Blair. the dispute arose over the 2nd.Eng. refusing to engage a motorman put forward by the Seamans Union, prior to this both the Mates and the Engineers were allowed to make a selection of who they wished to engage,this of course meant that the stirrers found it hard to ship out unless there was no one else available. With the Union putting a man forward for engagement it meant that there no free selection, and in this case the 2nd. declined to employ the motor man offered. This was the basic reason for the dispute. Being forced to employ someone you didn't want to or felt would be unsuitable. There were lots more meetings involving the Union,Institute,and Guild and the Goverment but nothing was resolved and the Wainui finally sailed for Singapore on the 5th March after being held up for 141 days. The ship was then sold to B.I. and the Union Co. withdrew from the Asian service.

Peter Kiddell

Hi Bazza & Peter
Got a couple of minutes, as we wait to cross da bar at Westport, and saw this .
This was NEVER about individuals it could have been anyone the facts are the Seamans Union had got away from the old antiquated pick up system and had reached an agreement with the employers on a roster system [ in this case Union Company] but at the same time the out of date Shipping And Seamans Act still gave the right to Mates engineers etc to act as employers, this was always going to cause a problem until the act was changed or updated.
The roster system, although never perfect, went on to serve employees and employers well, after this early teething problem.
Sometimes well for us to all realize at sea we are all employees.
Cheers Folks
Now off to work
Arfera

[Austow]

If you blokes got it so right, right across the board, managers, masters, mates, enginers and seamen, why is there no longer a New Zealand shipping industry ? Notwithstanding that the 'Wainui' was an unsuitable vessel for the trade, a hand-me-down from the P&O Group for the colonials, the dispute damaged the credibility of the nation as a viable base from which to operate shipping in international trades. But then 'national interest' was not foremost in the minds of the participants, dominated then by a British culture that never did sit well with New Zealanders or identify with the national interests of New Zealand.

[garry Norton]

The Wainui could not stop in the Calcutta river during a bore tide and had stability troubles for that trade. ex 2nd mate