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Driving Cimarrons...

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  #1  
Old 29th February 2012, 01:03
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jamesgpobog jamesgpobog is offline  
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Driving Cimarrons...

Here are links to some (I think) very informative writings about the USN Cimarron class replenishment oilers. These were originally built as MARAD T3-S2-A3 type ships and taken over by the Navy in WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimarro...s_oiler_(1939))



I was never on duty on the bridge of Mispillion, so I knew absolutely nothing about how the ship handled, and found these following 2 pages very interesting. I hope you do too.



http://navy.memorieshop.com/Mispilli...Cimarrons.html

http://navy.memorieshop.com/Mispilli...p-Handling.pdf

Last edited by jamesgpobog : 29th February 2012 at 04:27.
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Old 29th February 2012, 10:06
John Jarman John Jarman is offline  
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Hi James. Wasn't the Cimerron a Cadillac?

JJ.
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Old 29th February 2012, 17:29
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jamesgpobog jamesgpobog is offline  
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Originally Posted by John Jarman View Post
Hi James. Wasn't the Cimerron a Cadillac?

JJ.
I think that's a different class you're talking about...
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Old 29th February 2012, 18:22
Klaatu83 Klaatu83 is offline  
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The ship-handling advantages of twin-screws and twin-rudders over twin-screws and single-rudder has been well understood for a long time. The former places the rudders directly in the prop wash, rather than between the prop washes, so that they have a more positive effect. In fleet oilers, the principal advantage comes into play not so much while docking or undocking, as when the helmsman is steering the ship while refueling at sea in very close proximity to other ships.

I gained some familiarity with these ships from serving for a short time on board the Waccamaw during the time when she was first taken over by MSC, and from friends of mine who sailed on similar ships at that time. That was in the mid '70s, during the period when MSC took over the Marias, the Waccamaw, the Pawkatuck, the Mississiniwa and the Neosho in fairly quick succession. However, one friend of mine, who was an officer on the Regular Navy's USS Canesteo, gave me an interesting insight on the difference between how those ships were operated by MSC as opposed to the "Regular Navy". Much to my astonishment, my friend told me that the Canesteo's captain was really an airplane pilot, and that his last job had been in command of an air group on an aircraft carrier. My friend explained that air group commanders were routinely promoted to the command of aircraft carriers, but that they were generally assigned to the command of fleet oilers first in order to acquire ship-handling experience on large, deep-draft, multi-screw vessels. In contrast, the captains and officers who served on the MSC oilers were all professional seamen.

Last edited by Klaatu83 : 29th February 2012 at 18:26.
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Old 29th February 2012, 18:33
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Originally Posted by Klaatu83 View Post
The ship-handling advantages of twin-screws and twin-rudders over twin-screws and single-rudder has been well understood for a long time. The former places the rudders directly in the prop wash, rather than between the prop washes, so that they have a more positive effect. In fleet oilers, the principal advantage comes into play not so much while docking or undocking, as when the helmsman is steering the ship while refueling at sea in very close proximity to other ships.

I gained some familiarity with these ships from serving for a short time on board the Waccamaw during the time when she was first taken over by MSC, and from friends of mine who sailed on similar ships at that time. That was in the mid '70s, during the period when MSC took over the Marias, the Waccamaw, the Pawkatuck, the Mississiniwa and the Neosho in fairly quick succession. However, one friend of mine, who was an officer on the Regular Navy's USS Canesteo, gave me an interesting insight on the difference between how those ships were operated by MSC as opposed to the "Regular Navy". Much to my astonishment, my friend told me that the Canesteo's captain was really an airplane pilot, and that his last job had been in command of an air group on an aircraft carrier. He explained that air group commanders were routinely promoted to the command of aircraft carriers, but that they were generally assigned to the command of fleet oilers first in order to gain ship-handling experience. In contrast, the captains and officers on the MSC oilers were all professional seamen.
@ Klaatu...Very cool. Yeah, I've read that Airedales were given deep draft experience on oilers if they were on track for carrier command. I've read that one of the 5 Mispillion-class jumbos did not receive a double rudder. It was not Mispillion, so do you know which one it was? I'm having a hard time nailing it down. That leaves Navasota, Passumpsic, Pawkatuck, and your Waccamaw.

How did you like sailing on the W?
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Old 29th February 2012, 20:00
Klaatu83 Klaatu83 is offline  
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Originally Posted by jamesgpobog View Post
@ Klaatu...Very cool. Yeah, I've read that Airedales were given deep draft experience on oilers if they were on track for carrier command. I've read that one of the 5 Mispillion-class jumbos did not receive a double rudder. It was not Mispillion, so do you know which one it was? I'm having a hard time nailing it down. That leaves Navasota, Passumpsic, Pawkatuck, and your Waccamaw.

How did you like sailing on the W?
I never actually sailed on the Waccamaw. I worked on her as an AB while she was in the shipyard during the period when she was being transferred over to MSC. At that time, the dispatcher at MSC used to assign newly-hired deck officers to ships as ABs, promising that they would be promoted to 3rd Mate as soon as the current 3rd Mate got off. What the dispatcher didn't mention was that he had told that same story to seven other guys who were already in the foc'sle, and that the 3rd Mate wasn't planning on going anywhere anytime soon. It was a slick way for the dispatcher to fill up the foc'sles of the new fleet oilers with the requisite number of warm bodies. Small wonder they used to call the dispatcher "Shanghai Harry"!

I did know one guy who stuck it out on the Rigel, sailing as AB for many months before they finally promoted him to 3rd Mate. He eventually became captain of the Rigel. He was an exception, however. Most of them got fed up and jumped off long before that.

I was luckier than most of the others in that I managed to get off the Waccamaw before she went to sea, and managed to get a 3rd Mate's berth on another ship. The Waccamaw was in pretty bad shape at that time. We spent a good deal of our time trying to free up frozen blocks, and I wasn't surprised later, when I heard horror stories about head blocks disintegrating under load while refueling at sea.

I was told that the Navy were aware ahead of time that they were going to turn those ships over to MSC, and that they had deliberately stopped performing any maintenance on them for at least the preceding year. I was also told that the Navy really didn't want that program to succeed. After all, it was an embarrassment to the Navy for MSC to operate the same ships successfully with only one third as many CIVILIANS. I knew a guy who was on the Marias when they took her over, who told me that, at the time, she only had one working cargo pump. Another guy I knew who was on one of the newer oilers when MSC took it over (either the Neosho of the Mississinewa, I can't recall which) told me that they had to TOW the ship to the place where they changed command.

Last edited by Klaatu83 : 29th February 2012 at 23:28.
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