[roboted]

The latter stages of "Useless Chief Engineers" contains much discussion about the definition and status of an Engineer.

If we take the basic premise that Isembard Kingdom Brunel was a great Engineer.

Would you consider "Fred Dibnah" to be an engineer ?

I await your comments with interest......

Robbo

[Satanic Mechanic]

oooooohhhh nice one

My answer - without question

Now let me put one back at you

is the Super Collider at CERN (aka The Black Hole Machine) an example of Engineering




For the record I define Engineering as "The executive side of science"

[roboted]

Ahh !! Good morning SM,thought you might comment

Now then...."is the Super Collider at CERN (aka The Black Hole Machine) an example of Engineering"

Mmmmm
Yes and No.....

It's design and construction are a partnership between the requirements of the particle physcisists(?) and the ability to realise that in practice.
So yes an example of engineering.

Can it be fixed/tweeked with nowt but a shifter,2lb ball pein and a lung full of expletives...I think not !!
So no not an example of engineering

[Billieboy]

Originally Posted by roboted

Ahh !! Good morning SM,thought you might comment

Now then...."is the Super Collider at CERN (aka The Black Hole Machine) an example of Engineering"

Mmmmm
Yes and No.....

It's design and construction are a partnership between the requirements of the particle physcisists(?) and the ability to realise that in practice.
So yes an example of engineering.

Can it be fixed/tweeked with nowt but a shifter,2lb ball pein and a lung full of expletives...I think not !!
So no not an example of engineering

Ever thought about the the angle at which the individual flanged sections are machined?

Fred Dibnah was one of the best engineers ever to apper on TV.

[Satanic Mechanic]

Or how about this one - I love this one.

Bearing in mind my own definition of an Engineer above, which I came up with after ritual chanting and sitting naked under a waterfall in Shangri La for a month (ok it actually came to me as I was kicking the crapout of an uncooperative valve one day).

Are doctors Engineers?

and just to add a bit of spice to it lets subdivide them into physicians and surgeons



Edit to nurses - you can be stokers, greasers and oilers

[dom]

Engineers ,a loosely used term today covering everything from genetic engineering to fixing TV sets,when i think of an engineer its someone down below pulling pistons or giving me steam on deck

[Thats another Story]

SM you might have put your foot in it there sister eliff may give you a shot with a grease gun or shovell something up your boiler

[roboted]

Originally Posted by Billieboy

Ever thought about the the angle at which the individual flanged sections are machined?

Absolutely,so a work of engineering,in its construction...

[Satanic Mechanic]

Originally Posted by JOHN PRUDEN

SM you might have put your foot in it there sister eliff may give you a shot with a grease gun or shovell something up your boiler

Sigh - if only

[Satanic Mechanic]

Originally Posted by roboted

Absolutely,so a work of engineering,in its construction...

Soooo getting back to my zen like definition - the scientists new what the wanted and asked the engineers to build it and maintain it- executive side of science

[roboted]

Originally Posted by Satanic Mechanic

Or how about this one - I love this one.

Bearing in mind my own definition of an Engineer above, which I came up with after ritual chanting and sitting naked under a waterfall in Shangri La for a month (ok it actually came to me as I was kicking the crapout of an uncooperative valve one day).

Are doctors Engineers?

and just to add a bit of spice to it lets subdivide them into physicians and surgeons



Edit to nurses - you can be stokers, greasers and oilers

Shurely we have a record here SM,4 posts to get away from "Fred Didnah" to doctors

No doctors are not engineers,but in certain cases,as in radiology they have to be aware of the engineering side of the equipment they use to get the best results from it.As an example my little sister(!) who is now the senior partner and consultant, of one of the largest independant radiology practices in Oz spent two years in Sweden with the team of engineers and doctors who developed some form of scanning system(not sure what)...so that does not make her an engineer and conversely the engineer who built it dosn't become a radiologist overnight...

[roboted]

Originally Posted by Satanic Mechanic

Soooo getting back to my zen like definition - the scientists new what the wanted and asked the engineers to build it and maintain it- executive side of science

After my last post,which I think reinforces your definition ,any chance we can get back to dear old Fred !!!

[dom]

what is/are an engineer

[Satanic Mechanic]

Originally Posted by roboted

After my last post,which I think reinforces your definition ,any chance we can get back to dear old Fred !!!

Fred is easy though - a great engineer

Oh there is a point.

Were Engines named from Engineers or the other way about? I don't know,

[roboted]

Ok,a last attempt to retrieve this thread

Would you consider "Fred Dibnah" to be an engineer ??

SM much as I enjoy your thought provoking questions,I might ask one of you..
Are you still in Singers,and if so,must be sundowner time ?

[Sister Eleff]

Originally Posted by Satanic Mechanic

Edit to nurses - you can be stokers, greasers and oilers

Yep, done all of that at some time or another but not on mechanical engines

John P I know what you are after, now where did I put that whip

[Thats another Story]

yes sis i have been a very naughty boy

[WilliamH]

In the French language the word for Engineer is Ingénieur and the word for ingenious is ingénieux which would suggest to me that the French consider Engineers to be men of ingenuity.

[michael charters]

Fred Dibnar was a Great Steeple Jack. Only an Engineer if you are employed as one.
Otherwise you count as unemployed. As I am classed as Retired.

[michael charters]

Originally Posted by WilliamH

In the French language the word for Engineer is Ingénieur and the word for ingenious is ingénieux which would suggest to me that the French consider Engineers to be men of ingenuity.

I think this definition answers ALL

[roboted]

Originally Posted by michael charters

I think this definition answers ALL

And was Mr Dibnah a man of ingenuity ?

[cubpilot]

languages other than English have a distinction between mechanics and engineers. the engineer these days having advanced academic education, the mechanic having skills training for their field of expertise. hence a chief engineer is an engineer as is someone with an engineering degree but the chap who does your car or fits your central heating boiler is a mechanic.
sadly we have little distinction which leads to people in other professions deriding the training needed to become say a chartered engineer. especially prone to thinking this way are doctors who lets face it only have two derivations of one machine to look after.
In my book Fred D would be more of a mechanic veering towards an engineer. Brunel, Telford and all the other Victorian pioneers were of an era that created modern engineering and since they had to develop the skills and the academics they really were engineers with a bit of the mechanic on the side.

[mikel1]

A different thread so here goes.

The definition of the word only as in Engineer is derived from ingenuity as stated by William H.

I agree with Cubpilot regards the advanced academic qualification as a prerequisite too. However a Chief Engineer on a ship is not an Engineer. More of a Mechanic or Operator/Maintainer as they say.

It used to be that an OND gave exemption from the 'academic' element of the Chief's ticket. In otherwords the Chief's ticket is only equivelant to elements of and OND. And an OND is not an advanced academic qualification.

I suspect that mechanical based tradesmen thought that working on an engine makes them an 'engine'er. Simple mistake I suppose but a mistake nevertheless.

As a word of warning. A person who believes he is an Engineer, as understood in the UK and by a number of misinformed characters, may indeed be able to operate within certain countries in the belief that they are Engineers. The UK being one of them where anyone with a greasegun can say they are Engineers. That same unqualified person under the belief they are Engineers should be careful in applying that same self belief outside the UK where an Engineer must have professional qualifications and not equivelant qualifications. A bit like a Nurse applying for a Doctors job in the UK I suppose.

Was Fred Dibnah an Engineer ? No, but an excellent Tradesman with an acute mind.

[cubpilot]

one recognition of being an engineer is to be a member or fellow of an engineering institute or institution. In that someone with a chief engineer's certification can become a member and then fellow of the institute of marine engineers it follows that a chief engineer can be classed as an engineer. well at least that is my understanding of the situation.

[Long gone]

Originally Posted by cubpilot

languages other than English have a distinction between mechanics and engineers. the engineer these days having advanced academic education, the mechanic having skills training for their field of expertise. hence a chief engineer is an engineer as is someone with an engineering degree but the chap who does your car or fits your central heating boiler is a mechanic.
sadly we have little distinction which leads to people in other professions deriding the training needed to become say a chartered engineer. especially prone to thinking this way are doctors who lets face it only have two derivations of one machine to look after.

Excellent post; the same point that my father always made about engineers, and why some people don't regard engineering as a profession (lawyers, doctors, and so on)

For the record, my father left school at 14, eventually did an apprenticeship at Woolwich Arsenal, and got himself a job as a building services' draughtsman.
When I first became aware of him, he was attending night school to gain an OND. Anyway, he eventually reached near to the top of his profession (FCIBSE); again, when I first became aware of him, he was a'heating engineer'. It was only when they started fixing his central heating boiler that he started calling himself a building services engineer.