Cargo plan: Glenroy, voy.17 - Ships Nostalgia
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Cargo plan: Glenroy, voy.17

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  #1  
Old 17th June 2011, 10:16
Hugh Ferguson's Avatar
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Cargo plan: Glenroy, voy.17

A typical Glen Line cargo, from a voyage to Japan and mainland China in 1951.
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  #2  
Old 17th June 2011, 11:02
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4 female elephants for restocking Hamburg Zoo after the war.
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  #3  
Old 17th June 2011, 21:03
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Another section of the same plan. This one shows the more valuable items such as silk, skins, rugs etc., classified as Ad Valorum. They were stowed under lock and key.
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  #4  
Old 17th June 2011, 21:29
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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Hugh as an engineer I always looked upon the mates cargo plan as a work of art.
Loved your space left for the elephants, did you have to leave part of the hatch open for them? Mydad once carried a giraffe which entailed them leaving part of the hatch open and also carry it in the very best of weather.

Don
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  #5  
Old 17th June 2011, 22:32
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Yes, Don, could be, but I never thought of it like that. Actually it was the Purser's-chief R/O- skills that produced them and 'twas he, on completion of loading in Colombo, who placed the 'work of art' in a frame with a blank piece of photographic sensitive parchment beneath it, and left it in the blazing sun on the boat-deck to eventually produce about ten copies. He would then, with a crayon, colour them all in, red for London, blue for Hamburg etc..
It all seems so primitive this day and computerised age: would you believe we didn't even have pocket calculators-I remember one chief mate who used a slide rule for the very important trim and stability calculations that were so essential. If we had finished six inches by the head I doubt he would have been in that ship next trip.
And to think that was just a mere sixty years ago!

(Incidentally, that class of Glen boats were reckoned to be the most powerfully engined cargo ships of their time, with their twin double-acting B&W engines producing 12,000 BHP for an 18 knot sea speed. The first one I was in, the Glenartney, clocked up 17.65 knots, average full sea speed, for the 100 day voyage to Japan and back).
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Old 17th June 2011, 23:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Ferguson View Post
Yes, Don, could be, but I never thought of it like that. Actually it was the Purser's-chief R/O- skills that produced them and 'twas he, on completion of loading in Colombo, who placed the 'work of art' in a frame with a blank piece of photographic sensitive parchment beneath it, and left it in the blazing sun on the boat-deck to eventually produce about ten copies. He would then, with a crayon, colour them all in, red for London, blue for Hamburg etc..
It all seems so primitive this day and computerised age: would you believe we didn't even have pocket calculators-I remember one chief mate who used a slide rule for the very important trim and stability calculations that were so essential. If we had finished six inches by the head I doubt he would have been in that ship next trip.
And to think that was just a mere sixty years ago!

(Incidentally, that class of Glen boats were reckoned to be the most powerfully engined cargo ships of their time, with their twin double-acting B&W engines producing 12,000 BHP for an 18 knot sea speed. The first one I was in, the Glenartney, clocked up 17.65 knots, average full sea speed, for the 100 day voyage to Japan and back).
In bank line it was the 2/0 who did the plans and having to get 7 copies of a work of art out before sailing was hard work. I think that our more complicated plans were on the capetown far east run.
I did 4 years on that run and never saved a plan,so it is nice to see one.

jim
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  #7  
Old 17th June 2011, 23:18
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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Hugh if I remember correctly wasnt the Glenorchy built in Fairfields on the Clyde. I thought that class to be beautiful ships.

Don
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Old 18th June 2011, 10:22
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Don, There were two of the original Glens (class name Glenearn) lost in the war, Glenorchy and Breconshire both built by Taikoo Dockyard in Hong Kong.
Those two ships were replaced and given those same names by two very similar ships-Priam and Telemachus-both built by Caledon.
Glenearn was built by Caledon at a cost of £440,500, she was the first to be followed by the Glenroy, built by Scott's Yard, Glengyle and Glenartney both built by Caledon, and lastly the Glengarry built by Burmeister Wain in Copenhagen.
The odd one out was the Radnorshire, built by Caledon and launched as the Achilles for Blue Funnel, an A.Class ship, which was added to this London/China/Japan service to enable it to maintain the one ship sailing per fortnight.
Caledon and Scott's were the mainstay builders for Blue Funnel and Glen: as far as I know they didn't patronise Fairfield's.
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  #9  
Old 18th June 2011, 10:25
Tom Inglis Tom Inglis is offline  
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Glenorchy

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Originally Posted by Don Matheson View Post
Hugh if I remember correctly wasnt the Glenorchy built in Fairfields on the Clyde. I thought that class to be beautiful ships.

Don
Hi Don,
Glenorchy was built at Caledon Shipbuilding in Dundee for Blue Funnel. She was launched as Priam in 1941 and immediately requisitioned by the Admiralty. She was acquired by Glen line in Oct 1948. In 1970 she transferred back to Blue Funnel as Phemius and went to scrap at Kaohsiung in 1971. A good productive and eventful life. I sailed on her in 1963 and again in 1970 when she transferred back to Blue Funnel.
I also did 3 voyages [4th Mate] on Glenroy in 1962 so Hugh's cargo plans brought back memories. It was always fascinating that we simply had to have good sunny weather between Colombo/Trincomalee and Aden so that the plan could be photographed as Hugh described and made ready to post from Aden.
I remember one master saying to me when I was a Middy that " I have seen a lot of changes lad, but you are going to see a hell of a lot more" How right he was!!

Tom Inglis
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Old 18th June 2011, 10:32
Tom Inglis Tom Inglis is offline  
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Glenorchy

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Originally Posted by Hugh Ferguson View Post
Don, There were two of the original Glens (class name Glenearn) lost in the war, Glenorchy and Breconshire both built by Taikoo Dockyard in Hong Kong.
Those two ships were replaced and given those same names by two very similar ships-Priam and Telemachus-both built by Caledon.
Glenearn was built by Caledon at a cost of £440,500, she was the first to be followed by the Glenroy, built by Scott's Yard, Glengyle and Glenartney both built by Caledon, and lastly the Glengarry built by Burmeister Wain in Copenhagen.
The odd one out was the Radnorshire, built by Caledon and launched as the Achilles for Blue Funnel, an A.Class ship, which was added to this London/China/Japan service to enable it to maintain the one ship sailing per fortnight.
Caledon and Scott's were the mainstay builders for Blue Funnel and Glen: as far as I know they didn't patronise Fairfield's.


Hi Hugh,
Our information does not correspond and I wonder who is correct.? The source of my info is The Book "Glen and Shire Lines" from the "Ships in Focus" series. They are usually accurate.
Any further thoughts?

Tom
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  #11  
Old 18th June 2011, 11:06
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Tom, That's where I confirmed my recollection of the history of that class! I'll check and come back to you.
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  #12  
Old 18th June 2011, 12:30
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Well, Tom, having checked I don't see any contradictions. As you state, the surviving Glenorchy was indeed Caledon built-I can't see why, or how our respective information fails to correspond.
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  #13  
Old 18th June 2011, 12:59
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The thumbnail is of a piece I found stuck on the back of a fine painting I have of the Glenroy. Nice place for a boy to grow up in, a home overlooking Scott's Yard, Greenock.
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  #14  
Old 18th June 2011, 17:05
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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Thanks guys, I have seen Glenorchy in Glasgow as a boy, remember her as my Dad was captain of the Orchy of William Sloans. Such coincidence cant go unnoticed in a young boy.
Looking up a very very old and dusty notebook, I think the Glenline ships built by Fairfields was the Glenfalloch and Glenogle around 63-63.
Sorry about the confusion with Fairfields and Glenorchy.

Don

By the way Hugh, you never told me about the hatches when carrying elephants.
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  #15  
Old 18th June 2011, 17:27
Tom Inglis Tom Inglis is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Ferguson View Post
Well, Tom, having checked I don't see any contradictions. As you state, the surviving Glenorchy was indeed Caledon built-I can't see why, or how our respective information fails to correspond.


Very sorry Hugh. Having sent my message I then saw yours, [sent about the same time,] read the first line refering to Taikoo Yard and jumped to the wrong conclusion without reading the rest.
Yes, we are now on the same wave length.

regards

Tom
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  #16  
Old 18th June 2011, 17:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Matheson View Post
Hugh as an engineer I always looked upon the mates cargo plan as a work of art.
Loved your space left for the elephants, did you have to leave part of the hatch open for them? Mydad once carried a giraffe which entailed them leaving part of the hatch open and also carry it in the very best of weather.

Don
Initially, the elephants were tethered on the port side of the after well-deck with their own specially erected awning. But as we were going to be arriving home in the dead of winter (signed off in London 5th Dec.1950), come time we entered the Meddy, other arrangements became necessary.
This involved utilizing the space in the centre-castle deck which had already been set aside for them. So, come the cooler weather, the huge double steel doors which gave entry to this deck were opened and the four 'ellies' were persuaded to amble in!
All that remain of my recollections of that remaining eight days to London are that they soon got their sea-legs, and being tethered athwartships it was easier for them to counter the ship rolling than had they been tethered fore and aft as it were.
Despite being indoors we got concerned when we began to notice them shivering-elephants shiver in slow motion. It was then that some bright spark thought they should be given buckets of warm water laced with rum: they seemed to like that but, as anyone would know these days, alchohol is absolutely the wrong medicine for treating the cold.
Whatever, they still seemed O.K. by the time we docked and it was left to the coasting crowd to see them safely delivered to Hamburg.
(I have a photograph of them being off-loaded there).
Looking back, it would not seem very wise to ship tropical animals to a freezing Hamburg mid December 1950. I've often wondered how they fared. I never much cared for the idea of wild animals being kept in steel cages for people to gawk at-it seems unutterably cruel
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Old 18th June 2011, 17:42
Tom Inglis Tom Inglis is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Matheson View Post
Thanks guys, I have seen Glenorchy in Glasgow as a boy, remember her as my Dad was captain of the Orchy of William Sloans. Such coincidence cant go unnoticed in a young boy.
Looking up a very very old and dusty notebook, I think the Glenline ships built by Fairfields was the Glenfalloch and Glenogle around 63-63.
Sorry about the confusion with Fairfields and Glenorchy.

Don

By the way Hugh, you never told me about the hatches when carrying elephants.
Hi again Don,
you are right about Glenfalloch and Glenogle. And come to mention these two, I sailed three trips as third mate on Glenfalloch [1966- 67] and one on Glenogle [1965] These were my favourite ships of all.
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Old 18th June 2011, 17:54
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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Hugh thanks for the story on the elephants, would have been a lot of fun had they got loose! Could you not have used steam heating rigged up to warm them.

Tom Glad I managed to get something correct. Glad you enjoyed your time on them, and I do hope the Clyde built good ships for you.

Don
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Old 18th June 2011, 18:32
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In Blue Star, on the "A"boats from leaving the last South America port to the Canaries was a frenzy of cargo plan photographing. Buckets of slop, lines on the bridge, sun frames whistling in and out. Everyone and his dog wanted a plan in London, including the night watchman! Must admit, some of them were good.
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  #20  
Old 18th June 2011, 20:38
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An awful lot of misunderstanding seems to have crept into this thread which leads me to wonder, Don, what have hatches to do with elephants!?
Could it be the layout of Blueys and Glens having a centre-castle deck which runs right under all of the midships accommodation and down the port and starboard sides of the engine-room space. This deck is closed at the forward end abaft No.3 hatch, but with an opening at the after end giving access to the after well-deck. That opening is secured by large steel doors which, if required, can be left open weather permitting, or closed if weather not permitting.
On outward passages this space was invariably used for the carriage of uncased cars which could be pushed in off the deck abreast No.5 hatch all the way along to the closed bulkhead just abaft No.3 hatch.

The centre-castle deck was easy to fill with cars but not so easy for other types of cargo-it was absolutely perfect for elephants, but I only ever saw it used for that on the one occasion.
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Old 19th June 2011, 20:46
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Click HERE for the very beginnings of the making of a cargo plan. Every one of those junks is laden with something transported down the Pearl River from the interior of China to Hong Kong, to be shipped to any one of some ten destinations.
And that was just one of the several loading ports!
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Old 20th June 2011, 07:32
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Your picture brought back memories of cargo watches at the buoys in Jardines. Everyone of those junks would have a wad of boat notes for different parcels of cargo and each would have to be signed for ! If you stood still for more than a few minutes you would be mobbed by hoardes of people (and kids) waving sheaves of pink sheets to be signed, so that they could be on their way in their junks. We tried to get permission to have 'chops' made ashore with our signatures cut in, but the powers said no. My signature slowly deteriorated to a vague squiggle and flourish during my time in Jardines and has never recovered !

Mike

Last edited by MikeK : 20th June 2011 at 07:35.
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  #23  
Old 20th June 2011, 13:30
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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Hugh Your picture of the Menelaus being swamped by such a confusion of junks is amazing. It makes me wonder, despite your posts following the photo, how did anyone know what went where and did it ever go wrong?
The photo must be a wondeful memory for lots of Blue Funnel/Glen Line members who would face chaos such as this on a regular basis.
Super photo, and thanks for explaining it all to me. Wee bit late now but appreciated never the less.

Don
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Old 20th June 2011, 19:13
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I must admit that I never myself saw so many junks alongside a ship. The Menelaus was a nine hold ship and so was a couple of thousand tons bigger than any of the Glenearn class with which I was familiar.
It is only fair to say that it was the Chinese foreman stevedores who were those with the most experience of dealing with the threatening chaos. They were familiar figures to us-we called them Jack-and their know how of where everything would get stowed was second to none.
I have a vivid picture, still in my mind after sixty years, of a Jack leaping up a rail, clinging to a stay, and waving his hat at an approaching junk to indicate where he should come alongside-now how the hell did he know what that junk had aboard which was to be loaded into No.2.?!?!
The two who really needed to know what they were about were the mate and that Chinese foreman stevedore. We, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th mates, had to note where it all got stowed and to report that to the purser for addition to the plan.
Just remains to be said that I loved cargo work in Hong Kong simply because it was done with such skill and expertise.
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Old 21st June 2011, 07:11
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Click HERE and you'll have an excellent image of a Glen boat alongside Holt's Wharf, Kowloon, showing the gear available for the loading and discharge of cargo: in this instance, discharging the last of the outward cargo.
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