Gyro Error - Ships Nostalgia
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Gyro Error

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  #1  
Old 13th December 2011, 15:18
Andrew Craig-Bennett's Avatar
Andrew Craig-Bennett Andrew Craig-Bennett is offline  
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Gyro Error

I have just been told by my boss to find him a regulation which requires the gyro error to be determined at least once a watch, weather permitting.

Every shipowner I can think of has had a company standing order to this effect but nobody seems to be able to find a regulation that requires it.

Help, please...
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  #2  
Old 13th December 2011, 15:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
I have just been told by my boss to find him a regulation which requires the gyro error to be determined at least once a watch, weather permitting.

Every shipowner I can think of has had a company standing order to this effect but nobody seems to be able to find a regulation that requires it.

Help, please...
Whether it was gyro or magnetic compass error as you say it was a company standing order and if not then certainly it was in the old mans bridge order book,
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  #3  
Old 13th December 2011, 16:53
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Thanks for confirming that I'm not going mad.

It seems to be one of those things that is so "basic" that nobody has ever seen the need to make it a regulation.

And now I have a bunch of so called marine superintendents who can't see the need for it and a boss who sees no need for anything unless there's a regulation for it.

I can say "the radar, the chart plotter and the autopilot all take their heading information from the gyro so it will be a pity if it wanders off" till I am blue in the face and I just get told the GPS sensing loop corrects it so why worry.

This is in a VERY big Asian shipping company...
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  #4  
Old 13th December 2011, 17:07
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Andrew, Why not make a quick call to the MCA and ask the Senior Examiner for Master's & Mates? Surely he will know!
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  #5  
Old 13th December 2011, 17:54
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Maybe, just maybe, its in the technical instructions of the Gyro.


John
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  #6  
Old 13th December 2011, 18:12
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No regulation as far as I know , just pure common sense !.
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  #7  
Old 13th December 2011, 18:26
borderreiver borderreiver is offline  
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M notices You will have to back some way possible bridge watch keeping. also check stews.
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  #8  
Old 13th December 2011, 19:23
Cutsplice Cutsplice is offline  
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Some old men that I sailed with had it as a standing order, "Compass errors to be checked as soon as possible after altering course and a least once per watch if conditions allow". I have never seen any regulation where it stated that compass errors had to be established at any particular time interval.
I was told that the "Torrey Canyon" had a very large compass error and the last time the error was established was many months prior to her rondevous with the Seven Stones, anyone confirm the story about the compass error ?.
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  #9  
Old 13th December 2011, 19:40
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The Bridge Procedures guide gives this as best practice.
Then go to Solas V (While this is referring to magnetic compass it follows that as a gyro is theses days the primary means of ascertaining heading) Quote:
Compass performance should be monitored by frequently recording deviations in the compass deviation book. Compass errors should be determined after every large alteration of course, and at least once every watch when there have been no major course alterations. Checking the compass deviation regularly may show the need for repair, testing or adjustment. In addition, compasses should be inspected occasionally by a competent officer or compass adjuster.

In practice a good gyro error cross checked against the magnetic is still a very important part of good watchkeeping.
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  #10  
Old 13th December 2011, 19:44
Strachan Strachan is offline  
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Gyro Error

Wouldn''t it come under "the ordinary practices of seamen" ?
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  #11  
Old 13th December 2011, 19:58
Jardine Jardine is offline
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I would say John Cassels and Strachan have it just about right.
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  #12  
Old 13th December 2011, 19:59
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Ok couple for you

Firstly it is mentioned in IMO resolution A918 B1/1.2.2
It is also part of the STCW code - Part 3-1 21.5.2


Howzat
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  #13  
Old 13th December 2011, 20:53
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In my days at sea it was the normal practice of mariners to regularly check for compass errors. Any instruction from shore seated company wallahs would have been considered insulting. Fortunately I never sighted such a document.
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  #14  
Old 14th December 2011, 03:54
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On a passage across the North Atlantic in the winter time with overcast nearly all he time it was not possible to obtain a gyro/compass error.
I was looking at the last 24 hrs entries in the log book before signing on the line when I notice that the compass errors ( when compared to the gyro ) was erratic and fluctuating wildly.
Went and checked the gyro and found that the mounting had come loose due to our vibrations.
The auto pilot followed the gyro and that was what was at fault so I think that comparing the compass and gyro should be emphasized not just getting a gyro error
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  #15  
Old 14th December 2011, 06:37
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All,
The provision of Compasses in Cargo Ships used to be governed by Rule 34 of the MS (Cargo Ship Construction and Survey) Rules,1965, these Rules plus others (M. Notices 411 and 417)appear to place a Duty on the Master to maintain a Deviation Book and regularly inspect same, and to take remedial action as required.
The 'ordinary practice of seamen' as quoted elsewhere here would cover it, as a matter of pride and routine dictated that you were able to hand over the watch and be able to tell your relief you had obtained errors.
I appreciate these are old sources, but they must have been subsumed into newer rules.

Yours aye,

slick
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  #16  
Old 14th December 2011, 08:33
Jardine Jardine is offline
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I like to think we are talking 'seamanship' which is a little like 'common sense' and not so easily taught. The problem with the younger element at sea is that they can tick all the boxes and know where to find conventions and legislation but 'take a sight' or talk 'mean of means'.
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  #17  
Old 14th December 2011, 08:47
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I suggest that the relevant rules noted here and the phrase "Normal practice of seamen" should be enough to tell that particular interfering shore whallah that he is out of his depth........
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  #18  
Old 14th December 2011, 11:59
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oh dear lord - it was a simple enough question.

Is it a legal requirement?

not

Tell how good you all were?
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Old 14th December 2011, 12:49
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It is a international legal requirement.
See the under quote
and also SOLAS
Which the bible for the sea lawyers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satanic Mechanic View Post
Ok couple for you

Firstly it is mentioned in IMO resolution A918 B1/1.2.2
It is also part of the STCW code - Part 3-1 21.5.2


Howzat
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  #20  
Old 14th December 2011, 14:48
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Andrew look here

http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga-mnoti...4E7C9E5EB6C418
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  #21  
Old 14th December 2011, 15:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jardine View Post
I like to think we are talking 'seamanship' which is a little like 'common sense' and not so easily taught. The problem with the younger element at sea is that they can tick all the boxes and know where to find conventions and legislation but 'take a sight' or talk 'mean of means'.
I think that I mentioned it on another thread,but when I was cruising on the Arcadia recently and having a chat with the ships navigator i was amazed when he looked completely baffled when I mentioned the devescope and what we had to do when up for masters orals.I wonder what mates now have to study instead of magnetism.

jim
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  #22  
Old 14th December 2011, 15:44
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Jim,They only use Magnetism when they mix with the lady passengers.


John.
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  #23  
Old 14th December 2011, 20:03
John Cassels John Cassels is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satanic Mechanic View Post
oh dear lord - it was a simple enough question.

Is it a legal requirement?

not

Tell how good you all were?
SM ; You've really lost me ; Is it a legal requirement ? , not .
what are you trying to say ?.
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  #24  
Old 14th December 2011, 20:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimthehat View Post
...... he looked completely baffled when I mentioned the devescope and what we had to do when up for masters orals.I wonder what mates now have to study instead of magnetism.

jim
OK so I am just a young pup but when I sat Masters in London in 1972 they had just brought in a new syllabus and instead of the deviascope you worked with a binnacle on wheels in the orals room... taking bearings on chimney pots across the street....

Dunno what they do now.......
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  #25  
Old 14th December 2011, 23:10
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Tired/Virgins/Make/Dull/Company, I was taught, standing for True/Variation/Magnetic/Deviation/Course but I think that was the formula for checking a magnetic compass. I was more a spanner-****** than a navigator so I shouldn't be expected to know such things.
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