[non descript]

I am trying to trace the builder's plans of a WW1 Standard Tanker from just after the First World War.

If I can find the builder's plans, the next stage is to locate someone who can make a model.

The plans that I am looking for, are of these two fine ladies:

War Jemadar
5563dwt Tanker
Built 1919 for Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co, London;
Later bought by Hadley Shipping Co (1928) re-named Corato and scrapped Briton Ferry 1938.

Or her sister ship:
War Jandoli
Built 1920 for Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co;
Bought by Hadley Shipping Co in 1926 and re-named CEPOLIS scrapped Yokohama in 1937

Any guidance would be very much appreciated
Tonga

[stevecz]

Tonga,
The only history I can find.

War Jemadar built by James Laing & Sons Ltd. Sunderland.
5563 Gross Tons, 400 ft loa, 52 ft beam.
1918-1919 for Shipping Controller, managed by Hunting & Son.
Sold 1919-1927 to Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co, London, renamed Cliona in 1922.
Sold 1927-1928 to Deutsche Tankreederi, Hamburg,
Sold 1928-1938 to Hadley Shipping Co, London, renamed Corato.
Scrapped 1938, Briton Ferry.

War Jandoli, built by Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend.
5578 Gross Tons, 400 ft loa, 52 ft beam.
1919-1920 for Shipping Controller, managed by Lane & MacAndrew.
Sold 1920-1926 to Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co, renamed Cepolis in 1921),
Sold 1926-1937 to Hadley Shipping Co, London.
Scrapped 1937, Yokohama.

[non descript]

Thanks Steve, all things help and it keeps the thread visible in case someone passes by and has access to the builders’ plans for these special ships.

It seems that the one thing that is really difficult to locate is a decent ship’s GA plan of this era.

Tonga

[Tmac1720]

Plans for a standard "A" type tanker are available from the Harland and Wolff archives, a GA and a Rigging Profile. If any of the vessels you are interested in is a "A" type I can give you more details.

[non descript]

Tmac,

I have to confess, I was hopful that you would reply. Many thanks and I'll be in touch via PM to see how I can access this archives.

Tonga

[non descript]

Tmac,

This (please see War Hostage description below) is maybe an example of the standard design ship I am looking for; is it also called a "standard "A" type tanker " or am I on the wrong track?

Kind regards
Tonga

ss WAR HOSTAGE
built by Harland & Wolff Ltd Govan,
Yard No 525G
Last Name: ASHKHABAD (1938)
Previous Names: DNESPROSTROI (1938) KUTAIS (1934) MISTLEY HALL (1925) ALDERSGATE (1924) MILAZZO (1919)
Propulsion: steam
Launched: Tuesday, 16 October 1917
Built: 1917
Ship Type: Tanker
Tonnage: 5181grt
Length: 401 feet
Breadth: 52.3 feet
Owner History:
Ministry of Shipping (Anglo Saxon Petroleum) London

[Bruce Carson]

Tonga,
At the following URL here are a couple of small pictures of the 'Ashkhabad' sinking.
It may be worth a quick look.

http://www.nc-wreckdiving.com/WRECKS...ASHKHABAD.HTML

Bruce C.

[non descript]

Bruce

Many thanks for this bit of info, it another piece of the puzzle.

I am now a bit further on, as it seems the plans I am after are for something called "Z" Class.

I wonder if Tmac has such in his archives?

Kind regards
Tonga

[Tmac1720]

Hi Tonga,

You have me worried now as I'm not familiar with the term "Z" class. All the standard tankers we built are "AO" class but I'll do a bit more research and get back to you ASAP. The tanker you refer to War Hostage is "AO" class.

I'll keep digging and hopefully get the answer.

[non descript]

Hi Tmac,

Thank you for your interest – Frankly, I think I am the one who should be worried, for if you don’t recognise the “Z” but you do know of the “AO”, then my money is on you being right and me being the Tropical Freshwater Allowance.

I await your reply with great interest

Tonga

ps. now I have Bruce's photograph I am that much closer to my goal

[Bruce Carson]

Tonga, the ship is almost certainly, according to her tonnage, a Type AO.

Found the following classifications:
AO. 5250 gross tons, length 412ft, beam 52ft, single screw, speed 11 knots.
AO tankers were A type cargo ships converted to tankers by the addition of cylindrical tanks built into their holds.

Z. 5800 gross tons, length 412ft, beam 52ft, single screw, speed 11 knots. Designed as tankers.

Bruce C.

[non descript]

Bruce,

Thanks for your very useful input.

Going back to the start and the actual two ships I am after (which were definitely sister ships) it looks like the War Jemadar and War Jandoli were Z Class ships and I was wrong going off at a tangent by mentioning the WAR HOSTAGE - I only did this because it was built by Harland & Wolff Ltd Govan and thought it might assist Tmac, who is still very kindly burrowing away through his archives. With hindsight that was a red-herring, although it had it's uses, as we got a photo of ASHKHABAD, which is at least a bit similar to the Z Class in terms of bridge amidships.

So we return to the original ships that we need the plans of (or failing this a photograph):

War Jemadar
5563dwt Tanker
Built 1919 for Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co, London;
Later bought by Hadley Shipping Co (1928) re-named CORATO and scrapped Briton Ferry 1938.

Or her sister ship:
War Jandoli
Built 1920 for Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co;
Bought by Hadley Shipping Co in 1926 and re-named CEPOLIS scrapped Yokohama in 1937

Any and all input would be very welcome, as this one is beginning to be quite a stubborn one to crack.

Tonga

[Bruce Carson]

Tonga, I had forgotten about the original two ships that you mentioned.
The two are "Z" types, being designed as tankers from the beginning.

There is a photo of a Type "Z" on the following site, the 'War Brahmin'. That should give you an idea of what the class looked like.
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuil...p.asp?id=18043
She measured 5,545GT, 400' x 52.2'.

Bruce C.

[non descript]

Bruce,

You have been a huge help.

Thanks to you I now have a very clear idea of what a “Z Class” looks like. The main key is that they are built with engines and all superstructure amidships.

I have trawled through various sited and found an endless list of names of “Z” Class tankers, but so far no other photos. Interestingly there mention of a. “Athelstane" . She was sunk by Japanese aircraft bombs at 07-30 N, 81-56E whilst on passage from Trincomalee for Colombo. All of her crew survived the ferocious Japanese air attack. She is described as a WW1-Standard type built in 1918 by Irvines S.B. & D.D. Co., West Hartlepool as WAR GHURKA with Hunting & Sons, as managers.

Purchased in 1919 , it was not until 1921 that she was renamed CAPRELLA by Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co. (Shell). In 1924 she was sold to British Molasses Co. and renamed ATHELFOAM In 1931 she was sold to G.O. Aarvold & Co. Oslo, and renamed HIRD, but was on charter to Athel. In 1935 she was repurchased and renamed ATHELSTANE.

If this review jogs any other member's memory, I would be very grateful for their input.

Regards
Tonga

[Bruce Carson]

Tonga, I've always wanted copies of Mitchell & Sawyers books on the standard ships of WW1 & WW11, but never have had any luck.
I would guess that "Wartime Standard Ships, Vol. 3, British Standard Ships of WWI may have some information on the Type Z.
Here is another picture of a "Z" (War Afridi) with a slightly better view of the oil tanks.
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.u...awarafridi.jpg

Bruce C.

[non descript]

Bruce,

Thanks and this is all getting closer. I even found one myself, which give the general idea.

Regards
Tonga

[stevecz]

Tonga,
The info I have on Caprella as follows
Caprella (1), ex War Ghurka built by Irvines Shipbuilding & Drydock Co.Ltd, West Hartlepool.
(1918-1919 for Shipping Controller, managed by Hunting & Sons).
Sold (1919-1924 to Anglo Saxon Petroleum Co Ltd, London, renamed Caprella (1) in 1921),
(1924-1931 to British Molasses Co. (United Molasses Co, in 1926, later Athel Line), renamed Athelfoam),
(1931-1935 G.O. Aarvold & Co. Oslo, renamed Hird, on charter to Athel).
(1935-1940 to Athel Line, renamed Athelstane).
Requisitioned (1940-1942 by the Admiralty as an Oiler).
Sunk 09/04/1942, bombed by Japanese aircraft off Kalmunai, Sri Lanka, at position 07°30'N, 81°56'E. On passage from Trincomalee to Colombo, Celon (Sri Lanka). All crew survived.

Sorry, no pictuure, I'm looking for one too.

[non descript]

Steve

Thank you for your interest, it is appreciated.

There is indeed a site with a text similar to the one you found, but beware as there is a photo attached but it is wrong! I guess it must a another ship of a similar name.

In the text, the writer correctly explained about a Z Class being "built with engines and all superstructure amidships", but then adds a photograph of a wonderful ship (and it may well be called Caprella) but it is very clearly Engines Aft, and we may safely assume, NOT a "Z Class".

Kind regards
Tonga

[helen]

I know I'm only a layman and a novice at maritime research, but Liverpool Maritime Museum offer a ship plan copying service so guess they have some.

Helen

[non descript]

Helen,

You do yourself a grave injustice – a quick thinking novice is probably better placed than an old and tunnel-visioned sea-dog; on the basis that the former has bright and fresh ideas, whilst the latter a memory and a logic from a different age, you seem to have an immediate advantage.

I am very grateful for your suggestion, which I would not have come to unaided and I will check out this link tomorrow:

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/m...eInt=6&catStr=


Many thanks
Tonga

[helen]

Tonga, thank you very much for that. What I never forget - and must never forget - is the tremendous help received from many mariners and ex-mariners who have given of their knowledge and time so generously over the last year to help me, without which I would probably be sitting gazing out the window and have sold off my computer by now. Helen

[helen]

Sorry Tonga, switched off and then remembered - "How could I have forgot?"

Info now passed on to Tonga and deleted from here.

[non descript]

Helen,

Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

I am waiting to hear back from Liverpool Museum, I'm not over hopeful as there is no direct connection with this port, but frankly every little helps and they may pass me on to someone else who has a loft full of GA Plans of "Z Class Tankers".

Kind regards
Tonga

[Bruce Carson]

Tonga, many of these ships were built on the Clyde.
Glasgow U and the Mitchell Library have extensive shipping files.
It couldn't hurt to fire off an EMail to both locations.
One or the other may have what you need.

Bruce C.

[non descript]

Bruce,

Thanks for those two ideas - I'll try both of them. In the meantime I came across one "Z" Class with an unusual end, in that she was sunk by the US Navy....

War Khan Built for the Shipping Controller, with Stephens, Sutton & Stephens as Managers, thereafter:
1919 Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Co, London;
1922 CAPSA, same owners;
1927 NORDHAV, Skibs A/S Nordhav (T.Lodding), Oslo;
1940 seized by Japan;
1941 DAISIN MARU, Oiwa Tokujiro, Kobe;
23.9.43 torpedoed and sunk by USS HARDER at 34.20N 137.05E.

All input is very much appreciated.

Kind regards
Tonga