MV Meuse - Ships Nostalgia
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MV Meuse

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  #1  
Old 31st August 2006, 13:35
dundalkie dundalkie is offline  
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Question MV Meuse

I did a few trips in a vessel called Meuse. She ran between Surrey Docks/Cherry Garden Pier and Ruoen (?) and up the Seine to Paris, St dennis if I remember correct. Lovely job that canvas covers and wooden hatchboards on a cold frosty morning and anybody wearing gloves was a sissy.steering by magnetic compass with a real wooden wheel in a semi-gale in the channel. Ah the memories. What is the history of this ship and what became of her eventually.
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  #2  
Old 3rd September 2006, 09:22
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Ahoy Dundalkie,

Yep I saw her regular in these areas, as well in Surrey Docks as in Rouen/Gennevilliers/Austerlitz Gare, the old lady is still around nowadays as PERNAT, after more then 50 years.
These Seine traders were sub's in heavy weather, and very slow going, indeed as you said hard working in those days as the MacGregor's hatches were introduced later, but great crew.
Here some details and a piccie on her trials:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Meuse1953-data (Medium).jpg (96.3 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg Meuse1953-data LR.jpg (78.6 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg Meuse(2)1953 (Medium).jpg (52.6 KB, 133 views)
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Last edited by ruud : 3rd September 2006 at 09:32.
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  #3  
Old 4th September 2006, 14:36
robertblack36 robertblack36 is offline  
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hi dundalkie, i sailed on the meuse from may 1963 until feb. 1965, she was then under uk flag & sailing between glasgow/ liverpool/ rouen/ gennevilliers. the run was shared with the somme, another company vessel. we did some ducking & weaving during heavy weather runs up & down the west coast. another company vessel (mv scheltd) was on the london paris run. the captain of the meuse, was colin metcalf who is a member of sn.
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Old 4th September 2006, 16:28
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Seine Traders

Hello Dundalkie, Ruud, and Robert,
I sailed with G.T.Symons from early 1964 until mid 1967 when the 'Normandy' and the 'Seine were sold to an Iranian company, I went with them, but that is another story.
I remember the 'Meuse' and the 'Somme' well. In comparison to our weekly cushy little jaunts across the channel, I did not envy you your winter voyages around the west coast, it must have been difficult keeping to a liner schedule. It was a good trade while it lasted, lots of camaraderie, nights moored with other Seine Traders near to small villages, very relaxed, very civilised, I missed it all when I left.
Apart from the 'Anjou', Normandy' and the 'Seine' of Symons other regular traders to the Quai D' Austerlitz were, the 'Scheldt', 'Garonne', 'Gironde', 'Rapid', and the 'Karl' or 'Carl' I dont remember the correct spelling of the last. I remember the Captain of the 'Garonne' was nicknamed Hank.
The ships that I remember well at Gennevilliers apart from the 'Meuse' and the 'Somme' were the 'Rottum' and the Locket and Wilson ships 'Vendome', 'Vauban', and 'Grouville'. There were two very flash, modern Dutch vessels on the run as well, I cannot remember their names but they were larger and one of them had a hydraulic wheelhouse which could be lowered to main deck level, was it the 'Bourbon' ? I forget now.
Any way they were happy days, unfortunately not to be seen again, containerisation and roll on roll off saw to that.
Bruce.
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Old 4th September 2006, 16:39
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Ahoy Bruce,

They were the BURGUNDIA & NORMANDIA, blue painted.If I remember well on one of her first voyage to Paris she hit the first bridge in Rouen, 'cos the hydraulic system failed.Anyway it made the newspapers in those days.
Yep lovely times, all together nearby a village/locks sometimes alongside a tree, and had some beers ashore, with other crewmembers from different vessels, yeah those were the days, great camaraderie.
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Old 4th September 2006, 17:34
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Burgundia/Normandia.

Hello Ruud,
Yes you have jogged my memoryl, the ' Burgundia' and 'Normandia', smart ships. I can remember another unfortunate incident on the 'Burgundia', one of the river pilots, Gaston Prevost' elder brother who, I believe was Mayor of Andressey, received a serious electric shock from the electric bridge telegraph while on passage, he was paralysed for a while but, I believe he recovered later.
There were some small ships used to run from Stockholm to Gennevilliers. I can remember a story I heard while on the Paris run. A Paris bound vessel in a convoy of small ships following an Icebreaker on passage from Stockholm to Kiel, met another crossing convoy, all the ships including the two icebreakers tied up alongside each other for the night. As you can imagine some partying went on. However at daylight the two convoys continued to their respective destinations. Apparently half way through the morning someone on the Paris bound vessel had the presence of mind to look at the compass and was horrified to find that they were following the wrong icebreaker and, heading back to Stockholm. I am sure that this story is true, if not totally accurate.
regards Bruce
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Old 4th September 2006, 18:56
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Ahoy Bruce,

I do remember that "incident" but forgot on what ship it was, I was on most of them, could have been the VESTA,GEFLE,MYSON,MYFEM, as they were on the Stockhom-Gefle-Rouen-Paris trade.Yep that was the pilot,the mare of Andrésy,there was another one with his pipe[we called his tabacco "fleur de mattress" awful stinking, and another one, missing his thumb or hand, but all very nice guys they knew at least where to stop for the night, for sleep/food/drinks..ahh those fine days, wish they could be brought once, only once... back again.

Btw been stocked in ice several times, but the worst was in early '63, in the Luleĺ area, almost for a month.
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Last edited by ruud : 4th September 2006 at 18:59.
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Old 4th September 2006, 19:52
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Seine pilots

Hi Ruud,
Yes, I can remember those vessels that you named, all very trim looking ships. Th only pilots that I can remember were Gaston Prevost and his brother the Mayor, Georges Bourginon, and another pilot whose name I forget who had a farm near Le Pont de le arch. The Ch.Engineer and I had the very good fortune to spend one Christmas with him and his family on the farm, I t was a very good Christmas, the hospitality was unbelievable. He made his own calvados and bottled it with tree and all in old Jonnie Walker bottles. It ws really good stuff. I remember the day after boxing day returning to the ship in the early morning to find the river shrouded in dense fog, we waited for an hour or two and it was still foggy, so we returned to the farm and Christmas continued for another 24 hours. I have been trapped in ice a couple of times, but only for short periods. It doesnt get much worse than the Gulf of Bothnia in mid winter, it must have quite an experience.
all the best Bruce.
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Old 19th October 2006, 23:47
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Meuse

Hi there Dundalkie, ruud, robertblack and Bruce,

I missed this thread as I have been away on holiday.

robert......I sailed on the "Somme" for two years, 1961 until July 1963 so I must have been there when you joined the "Meuse". As you say, we did some ducking and diving on that west coast especially in the winter. I joined the "Scheldt" in 1967 on the London run, what a difference, a nice easy run across the Channel.

dundalkie......I well remember the hatch boards and frozen tarps in the winter and steering by quarter points and paying for our grub.

ruud...... I cannot believe that she is still running today.

I have put a couple of thumbnails of the "Meuse" and "Scheldt" alongside each other in Rouen

Trader.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg File0001Meuse & Scheldt stern.jpg (35.9 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg Meuse&Scheldt@Rouen.jpg (44.3 KB, 68 views)
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Old 20th October 2006, 06:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trader View Post
Hi there Dundalkie, ruud, robertblack and Bruce,



ruud...... I cannot believe that she is still running today.



Trader.
Ahoy Trader,
Well I'm sorry for you, but she is still trading as Pernat, after 53 years!!!!!

http://report.crs.hr/hrb/BrodDetaljno.aspx?IMO=5233688

Just click on the + signs for more details.

Here the "old lady" as Pernat:

http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pernatexmeuse1953aak1.jpg
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Last edited by ruud : 20th October 2006 at 06:57.
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Old 21st October 2006, 02:29
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Wm. H. Muller ships.

Hi ruud,

I didn't disbelieve you mate, I just couldn't believe that she was still running after 53 years

Do you know what happened to the "Somme" after she was sold by Mullers.?

I was on the "Scheldt" when Mullers sold her to Metcalf Motor coasters and she was renamed "Thomas M". She was sold on again and I heard that she capsized in the North Sea enroute to Germany later. Have you got any thing in your files about this?.

Here is a photo of the "Somme" in the locks at Bougival near Paris. The wheelhouse is down and funnel off.
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File Type: jpg Somme in locks Bougival Paris.jpg (43.0 KB, 53 views)
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Old 21st October 2006, 05:55
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Ahoy Trader,
Yep, a nice shot from her in the locks, often a place for stopping the night, with a good bar to get some Kronenbourg's.
Built in 1950 at Henry Scarr Ltd.-Hessle o/t Humber, renamed DOXA-ELIVA-ASOPI-St.PATRICK-ANTONELLO finally broken up in 1989 in Tunesia.
Piccie added by courtesy/© of Malcolm Donnelly.

http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?i...bymalcowe2.jpg
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Last edited by ruud : 21st October 2006 at 05:59.
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Old 21st October 2006, 06:37
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Quote:
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Hi ruud,

I didn't disbelieve you mate, I just couldn't believe that she was still running after 53 years

Do you know what happened to the "Somme" after she was sold by Mullers.?

I was on the "Scheldt" when Mullers sold her to Metcalf Motor coasters and she was renamed "Thomas M". She was sold on again and I heard that she capsized in the North Sea enroute to Germany later. Have you got any thing in your files about this?.
Ahoy Trader,
Here details of the SCHELDT[2]:
m/s SCHELDT (2)
(1959-1970)
IMO nr: 5315254
Call Sign: GBZA
Built: 1959, wharf: Scheepswerf Gebroeders Barkmeijer, Vierverlaten. (154)
Brt: 397, Nrt: 172, Dwt: 541 lxbxhxd: 46,51 x 7,78 x 4,20 x 3,42
Type:Coaster, 1 hold G 654 m3, B 615 m3
Eng:4 tew 8 cil MAN dieselengine (235 x 330), 410hp.,
Spd:10 kn.
Augsburg-Nurnberg A.G., Nurnberg.
History:
18 december 1958 launched, 2 april 1959 maiden voyage and delivered.
02.04.1959-1970 SCHELDT, Wm.H. Müller & Co., London-England.
1970-1970 THOMAS M, Metcalf Motor Coasters, London-England.
1970-1973 THOMAS M, M.G. Tyrrell, Dublin-Ireland.
1973-1982 JOAN T, M.G. Tyrrell, Dublin-Ireland.
1982-1986 JOAN T, Arklow Shipping Ltd., Dublin-Ireland.
1986-1987 ELFI, Windlass Marine, Isle of Man.
2 maart 1987 from Beckingham to Bremen cargo slided down and the vessel was taken water.
Crew abandoned ship,ship capsized and sunk at position 53.54 N.B. en 05.51 W.L.
The 4 crewmembers were saved.
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Old 21st October 2006, 15:13
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Hi there, Dundalkie,Ruud, Robert and Trader,
Nice photos of the Scheldt and Meuse at Rouen and the Somme at Bougival Trader, they bring back many memories. Did you ever lose any tractors crossing the Channel on the Scheldt? I can remember you stowed the tractors fore and aft on the hatch, using the whole width, they always looked a bit precarious, they must of been expertly lashed. On the Somme, did you have to dismantle your wheelhouse and funnel on the passage to Austerlitz or only during the floods, as we did on the the Symons ships?
In Rouen, do you remember Lucy the ships chandler who , used to take turns in lunching aboard different Paris Boats, always bringing an excellent bottle of wine to accompany the meal? and do you remember Doris in Stockholm Jacks ?.
Ruud, thankyou for the information on regarding the ships histories, quite remarkable. I posted a query some weeks ago, titled Savudria/Khodadad Vananca which I think is in the'Scrapped Ships' section, enquiring about the demise of the two smaller Symons vessels, Darvish ...... ex Seine and Shirdell V...... ex Normandy, but without any response to date.
Cheers all Bruce.
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Old 21st October 2006, 15:58
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Ahoy Bruce,
Yep I do remember, loosing tractors from Felixstowe to Sweden, in the German Bight as well some of these sportscars, I believe they were MG's to Sodertalje[near Stockholm], also remember Lucy,but can't remember the Company's name anymore[Jean ?? Fournet??]always an envelop for the stores that were ordered, but beside the bottle of wine, often a good cognac as well.Of course Doris, and her daughters[Hannah was quit a cracker].Not only to Austerlitz the wheelhouse/funnel/masts had to be dismantled, also to Gennevilliers, especially during the rain periods, as seen here with the VESTA, will have a look for the wanted info on the 2 Symons vessels, but sorry later on, now it's footie time, but will come back on this.

http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vestakj4.jpg
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Last edited by ruud : 21st October 2006 at 16:04.
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Old 21st October 2006, 23:15
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Re: The SCHELDT, while the JOAN T and owned by Arklow Shipping Ltd; Dublin, 1982/86. She was retained in Arklow Port and her radio, call sign - EIDV, was used nightly to contact ships of the fleet as far away as Africa and the Baltic. This was before the advent of mobile phones, satelite communications and radio licences for shore based transmitters by the Irish Goverment.
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Old 22nd October 2006, 03:18
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Muller ships

Hello ruud, Bruce and GALTRA,

Many thanks for your posts.

Ruud........Thanks for the details and information on the demise of the "Somme" and "Scheldt". You are a mine of information, where do you get all your info. from? It is very helpful, I see that you have helped many people in the past through reading your many posts.

It was interesting to see that when the "Scheldt" capsized all the crew of 4 were saved which was good news. When I sailed on the "Scheldt" we had a crew of 7. Captain, Mate, 2 Engineers, 2 A.B.s and a Cook/Steward. I suppose that when she sank she was running with Captain, Mate, Engineer and 1 A.B.

I remember all the Stockholm run vessels that you mentioned, Gefle, Vesta, Myson and Myfen.etc. Happy days.

Bruce...........will post again tomorrow re. your posts on Seine Traders and Pilots. I have just sent you one but got cut off by AOL.

GALTRA...Same for you. Are you based in Arklow?

All the best ........Trader. (Alec)
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Old 22nd October 2006, 03:35
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London/Paris boats.

Hello Bruce,

As I mentioned in my previous post above, I keep getting cut off by AOL. I made a rather long post a couple of nights ago in reply to your posts about Seine Traders and Pilots and as I was about to post it I got cut off and lost the lot. I didn't feel like doing it all again as it was in the early hours and I was ready for my bunk.

I must sort out this AOL business as it is getting beyond a joke. It could be my computer as it is quite old, I am running Windows 98 S.E..

I have been away for 3 weeks on holiday so missed this thread when it first started. I was also trawling through other threads and see that you knew Capt. Griffin from the "Farringay". I cannot find the thread now but I think it was about "Chant Tankers". Must go as I feel that I am going to get cut off. will mail again later today.

Trader (Alec)
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Old 22nd October 2006, 04:02
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Joan T, Arklow.

Hello GALTRA,

Thanks for your post re "Scheldt" later "Joan T". Was she permanently based in Arklow Port with extra Radio gear placed aboard and never sailed.? She must have been a good job for some one .

I see from your profile that you are a marine historian. If you are based in Arklow did you ever come across a couple of old shipmates of mine namely Jim Byrne and Mike Quinn. I sailed with Jim on the "Somme" same company as the "Scheldt" in 1961/1963. He was 65 then, or so he said, probably older. He taught me more about the sea than any one else that I know. I sailed with Mike Quinn on Manchester Liners where he finished up as Bosun, he was an old pal of Jim's.

I also had dealings with the old Schooner "Invermore" Capt. Tyrell and the old Schooner "De Wadden". That is another story, I'll tell you about it another time as I feel that AOL are going to cut me off.

Trader.
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Old 22nd October 2006, 12:14
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Hi Ruud, Alec and Galtra,
Ruud, thank you for the superb photo of the Vesta, a trim vessel and a very good picture.
Alec, I am sorry that you are experiencing trouble with your computer, I have been there myself, I know how frustrating it can be. I didn't really know Capt. Griffin but, met him once or twice, probably in Charleston or Par, when on the china clay trade. I think the Thread was titled 'Chant Tankers' either in the tanker or coaster sections, it contains some very interesting postings.
Galtra, I have sailed with many seafarers from Arklow, two come to mind, Capt. Tyrrel who was Commodore Master with Esso and Capt.Tommy Tyrrel, with whom I sailed many years ago in Everards.
Cheers all
Bruce.
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Old 22nd October 2006, 14:44
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Quote:
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Hi Ruud, Alec and Galtra,
Ruud, thank you for the superb photo of the Vesta, a trim vessel and a very good picture.

Cheers all
Bruce.
Ahoy Bruce,
Yep it is a superb shot of her and my favourite photo, I'm looking every day at her as a painted picture on the wall in my livingroom.She was my first vessel, and having a fond memories of that period, hard working days, and not always good weather conditions on this "sub", she really was a "sub", portholes always double closed, but despite all the negatives, lots of fun as well to continue my career as seafarer.
Thanks for the compliments of the piccie.
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Old 22nd October 2006, 18:46
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Hallo Trader, No, I'm not from Arklow but further north, the same port as the original poster "Dundalkie" -- Dundalk. But maritime Ireland is a small community!! The JOAN T as far as I remember was laid up in the corner of the dock in Arklow, we used hear the ships being contacted late pm most days then. Can't say I know the men you mention, But I've heard mention of them. Captain Ernest Tyrell, (Esso) was a well known seaman here . I remember Capt. Tommy piloting us into Fowey on he Irish Fern in the 60's. I know he was a pilot there for many years. Glad your getting fruitful responce to your queries. All the best, Charley.
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Old 29th October 2006, 21:14
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Thanks for that GALTRA. I thought that you were from Arklow. Sorry not to have replied sooner, I have been having trouble with AOL. I keep getting cut off but think I have sorted it out now.
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Old 30th October 2006, 00:17
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Somme & Vesta

Hi ruud,

I haven't thanked you for your photo of the "Somme". It is the only coloured picture that I have seen, I only have black & white. Many thanks. I also liked the picture of the "Vesta", I remember her very well, a nice looking ship. Was she skipper owned as a few of the Dutch ships were.?
I have been having trouble with AOL and have not been able to stay on line for very long but I think that I have sorted it out now.

Do you have any information on the French ship "Piccadilly" which also did the Paris trade about the same time as we did. She was quite a modern ship for the time but she had a big crew and I don't think that it was economical to run her to Paris. I think that she ran to London. I went aboard her a few times in Gennevilliers and knew the deck crew quite well. They always got the wine out when we visited, the crew were all from Britanny. Good men.

All the best, Trader (Alec)
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Old 30th October 2006, 01:50
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Tractors, Funnels, Lucy and Doris(Stockholm Jacks)

Hello Bruce,

Sorry not to have replied to your posts about the above but as you know I have been having trouble with AOL. I started this post earlier on but lost the connection (AOL 9 Not Responding) so I am starting again.
Re. Tractors on deck, we never lost any whilst I was there, but that may have been down to good luck (weather). We did lash them well though. We almost lost some containers when we did a one off trip from Fords,Dagenham to Amsterdam, but that is another story

Re. Wheelhouse and funnel on the "Somme". We always took the funnel off in Rouen and laid it on the deck, it weighed one ton, and although we had the gear to take it off ourselves is was such a hassle so we always used a shoreside crane as we always had cargo for Rouen.
The wheelhouse we could dismantle easily and it was always up to the pilot if it stayed up or down. As ruud says it was according to the rainfall and height of the river.

Re. Lucy, I remember the old girl well. She had a wispy moustache and I wouldn't have liked to put an age on her. She was a good old girl though and tried to put the crew on the straight and narrow, I don't think that she approved of drinking although she was selling it.

Re. Doris and Stockholm Jacks. I knew Doris well (Look at page 14 of the Hello thread dated 22nd. July and read the posts between ruud and myself).
Ruud knew her well as I did. Bill Stone and myself used the bar quite a lot.
Talking about Bill, I went over to Folkestone a couple of days ago and had an afternoon drink with him. He has just come back from Beirut, his daughter has gone back there after all the trouble and is settling down well again.

I will sign off now whilst the going is good. I will post next time about the Seine Pilots.

All the best....Trader (Alec)
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