TV Morar - Ships Nostalgia
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TV Morar

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  #1  
Old 2nd December 2006, 12:45
kepowee kepowee is offline  
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TV Morar

hi all has anybody got a photo of the tv morar its the only ship i sailed on that i havent got a photo of ken powell
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  #2  
Old 2nd December 2006, 13:04
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ken

I answered this request on a couple of other threads-- "50s coasters " and "iron ore carriers"-- perhaps you missed the replies? See:
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuil...p.asp?id=18437

there is a sternview photo plus all details

regards
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  #3  
Old 2nd December 2006, 13:20
kepowee kepowee is offline  
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hi john thanks for posting the photo im glad to see they re engined her as she was always breaking down at sea ken powell
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  #4  
Old 2nd December 2006, 14:56
albatross1923 albatross1923 is offline  
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sailed two trips as 2ndeng on the gtv morar still suffering from shock

from 29.5.61to 29.6.61 signed off port talbot
30.6.61to 29.7 61 signed off greenock
albatross 1923 R340006
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  #5  
Old 19th January 2007, 23:06
Joe Freeman Joe Freeman is offline  
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Hello albatross1923, I would be very interested to here about the Turbine Free Piston Gasifiers in the "Morar" I saw one in David Rowan's engine shop in 1961-2. I have been puzzled all these years why it was there and for what purpose. Possibly it was for the sister ship "Arisaig" if the first gas turbine had been sucessful, or possibly it was a spare. I know she eventually had a Diesel installed in her.
I remember opening one up end for some suits to view and take pictures of, then I closed up the end cover and replaced the tarpaulin never to be exposed again. I was told that it had been tested in the shop and that the noise and vibration blew out the windows in the test bay.
Amy comments.
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  #6  
Old 20th January 2007, 00:06
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i have been told today that captain ian ramsay died of a heart attack yesterday in glasgow age 75 another old timer crossed the bar rip.
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  #7  
Old 23rd January 2007, 15:15
albatross1923 albatross1923 is offline  
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Hello JOE
here is as much as i can rember about the morar built lithgows 1959.scrapped
1980 original engines by rankine blackmore 4 free piston gas generators
1 gas turbine re engined 9 cyl werkspoor diesel problem how do you go astern
i think it was done by masking of the ahead set of blades from astern blades
gasifiers always died out when manouvering albatross1923 84yrs old tomorrow
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  #8  
Old 23rd January 2007, 15:40
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Gulpers Gulpers is offline   SN Supporter
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Originally Posted by muldonaich View Post
i have been told today that captain ian ramsay died of a heart attack yesterday in glasgow age 75 another old timer crossed the bar rip.
Sad news Kevin. I sailed with him in 1973 on Troll River. I was Cadet at the time and didn't have many dealings with him but, he always struck me as being a jovial gentleman. If I remember correctly he lived in Ayr.
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  #9  
Old 23rd January 2007, 16:40
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Originally Posted by Gulpers View Post
Sad news Kevin. I sailed with him in 1973 on Troll River. I was Cadet at the time and didn't have many dealings with him but, he always struck me as being a jovial gentleman. If I remember correctly he lived in Ayr.
hi ray i sailed with him on troll lake he was ok as old man did not bother anybody cardinal grey was mate regards kev.
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  #10  
Old 23rd January 2007, 17:51
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hi ray i sailed with him on troll lake he was ok as old man did not bother anybody cardinal grey was mate regards kev.
Kevin,

Sailed with Jim Gray as Mate and first trip Old Man for many trips on Arctic Troll - never a dull moment! He lived in Doncaster. Any idea how his health faired - he was diagnosed with skin cancer when I last sailed with him!
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  #11  
Old 23rd January 2007, 19:16
Joe Freeman Joe Freeman is offline  
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Originally Posted by albatross1923 View Post
Hello JOE
here is as much as i can rember about the morar built lithgows 1959.scrapped
1980 original engines by rankine blackmore 4 free piston gas generators
1 gas turbine re engined 9 cyl werkspoor diesel problem how do you go astern
i think it was done by masking of the ahead set of blades from astern blades
gasifiers always died out when manouvering albatross1923 84yrs old tomorrow
Hello Albitross1923 Happy birthday, you are 20 years my senior and we are all getting on, so that is why I am inquiring about this unique type of power generation. I still don't know how one of these gasifiers happened to be in storage at David Rowan's engine shop in 1960-1 or what ever happened to it.
I found a Posts dated 29th. & 28th. Dec 2005 from DCMARINE and neil maclachlan regarging this ships engine. One clue is that she the 'MORAR' in March 1961 had engines replaced, detaild as original engines plus one additonal gas generator. The replacement diesel engine did not take place until 1967, possibly the additional generator came from Rowan's.
The dimensions given for the gasifier bore is 340mm. X 550mm. this must be the combustion chamber as I remember the end cover or bounce piston end to be about 600 to 700mm. in diameter or larger. It must have been a bummer to start and control the fuel supply.I have a photograph of a Pratt and Whitney gasifier from Pescara, but it looks quite small compared the ships engine.
I look forward to any other information that I may have jogged youe memory.
Joe Freeman.
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  #12  
Old 23rd January 2007, 20:24
albatross1923 albatross1923 is offline  
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hello joe
you have bounced my memory we broke down at narvik i think it was damage to the rotor and had spare flown out funny you mention spare gasifier i only rember three so it could well be after isigned of at greenock29.7.61 that the fourth one was fitted if rowans did not make it rankine blackmore must have
to start gasifiers you had to bump start from a certain position albatross 1923
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  #13  
Old 23rd January 2007, 22:26
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Kevin,

Sailed with Jim Gray as Mate and first trip Old Man for many trips on Arctic Troll - never a dull moment! He lived in Doncaster. Any idea how his health faired - he was diagnosed with skin cancer when I last sailed with him!
no idea ray but i also heard that captain bob cotter crossed the bar a couple of years ago he was a great guy kev.
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  #14  
Old 23rd January 2007, 22:59
Joe Freeman Joe Freeman is offline  
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Originally Posted by albatross1923 View Post
hello joe
you have bounced my memory we broke down at narvik i think it was damage to the rotor and had spare flown out funny you mention spare gasifier i only rember three so it could well be after isigned of at greenock29.7.61 that the fourth one was fitted if rowans did not make it rankine blackmore must have
to start gasifiers you had to bump start from a certain position albatross 1923
Hi again, for some unknown reason I don't think Rowan's built it as it had a little wooden backboard and lamacoid name plate attached to the support stand, and I never took in all the information but I think it said Experimental.
One outstanding thing it came with a Torque Wrench in a fancy wooden box with chrome sockets and squirreled away out of reach of any light fingered punter.
I had the opportunity to open one end for some gentlemen in suits to view and take photographs, that is how I kind of remember the size of the cylinder.
It appeared to be as large as the bore of a Doxford liner that sat quite close to it. The Americans also tried the free piston gasifier for a turbine in a Liberty ship called the William Patterson, there was an article in TIME magazine in 1957 April 16th. It also was unsucessful, had poor fuel economy and sluggish response at low speed. However, there is a young fellow in Germany who is about to produce a freepiston engine for a car. If you are interested you can find it at : www.stelzer-motor.de/html/english.html
Cheers for now,
Joe Freeman
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  #15  
Old 9th February 2007, 00:29
Joe Freeman Joe Freeman is offline  
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tv Morar free piston gasifiers

Hello it's me again. I have been reading with intrest several replies to threads from ARRANMAN35, neil mac and ALBITROSS1923 regarding the turbine vessel Morar's free piston gasifier turbine engine. Over the years I have become quite intrigued by this unique type of marine propulsion, as it appears to be the only British Merchant Vessel that utilized this type of main engine.
According to an article in TIME magazine in 1957 an American built liberty ship the William Patterson utilized a free piston gasifier turbine engine that developed 6,000hp. Similarly it too was unsucessful due to high fuel consumption, sluggish response at slow speed, heavy and frequent maintenance all helped to cause it's demise.

I briefly worked on a single free piston gasifier unit stored at David Rowan's engine shop in Elliot Street Glasgow about 1960-61. From the information provided by ALBITROSS1925 I think this unit was eventually installed or used as a spare in Morar about 1961.
There appears to be virtually no documentation or any photographic record of this type of propulsion as installed in Morar other than a vague mention in the Clydesite database on the ship itself and engined by Rankin & Blackmore.
ALBATROSS1923 was able to provid me with some statistical records documenting the ships history and a few comments regarding the engine reliability and breakdowns. The information supplied by ARRANMAN35 and neil mac support the other members observations of frequent breakdowns and heavy maintenance.

Could you provide me with any other information regarding the gasifier operation, such as, how was the piston speed controlled? Were they operated individually or in a group? Could the gasifiers operate on heavy fuel? Was the turbine speed reduced through a gearbox and was it directly connected to the propellor shaft or through a hydraulic or pneumatic clutch? Did they vibrate and were they loud?
The other diesel engines on board, were they auxiliary generators or were they also utilized as prime power?
As an ex marine engineer I am concerned that without some more detailed information or photographic record regarding this particular ships engine, the historical record of this unique piece of Scottish Marine Engineering may soon pass into history unnoticed.
I thank you gentlemen for your comments and any further information
Joe.
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  #16  
Old 12th February 2007, 21:21
Joe Freeman Joe Freeman is offline  
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I should add that for all the troubles with the turbine gasifiers. This old ship sailed for over twenty two years before being scrapped at Kaohsiung in 1980. Her sistership M.V. ARISAIG only lasted fifteen years before being scrapped in 1972 at Faslane.
Joe.
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  #17  
Old 14th February 2007, 22:54
ranger66 ranger66 is offline  
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I was 2nd.Mate on Morar in early sixties. Lots of port time for deck dept. but when underway had standing orders to keep at least 5 miles off everything! I remember engineers were eligible for a bonus after 6 months, but don't believe anyone ever collected. I was in Narvik when they shipped the rotor up to the local garage for repair! It fit nicely in the bed of a small truck.The build philosophy was to allow more cargo space with a much smaller E/R, so replacing the main must have been a challenge. There was another ship around that time with similar propulsion, but with VP prop - apparently more successful.
I remember 4 gasifiers with only three supposed to be on line. I also remember British Polar Diesel being one of the prime contractors.
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  #18  
Old 15th February 2007, 08:18
John Cassels John Cassels is offline  
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Morar was well known in Denholms as the only ship to have passed
Cape wrath 5 times in one day.

JC
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  #19  
Old 15th February 2007, 23:17
Joe Freeman Joe Freeman is offline  
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Hello Ranger66, would you happen to remember the name of this other ship with a similar power plant. The only other ship that I have found was an american liberty ship William Patterson, that I mentioned previously.
The gas turbine had three gasifiers to generate high pressure gases to produce the power. The other gasifier was most likely the spare.
Thanks for the information. I sailed with Ben Line Steamers as 4th. engineer for a couple of years before emigrating to B.C. Canada in 1967. Do you happpen to know Trevor Caldwell I think he is a Mate on one of the BC Ferries.
Joe.

Last edited by Joe Freeman : 15th February 2007 at 23:20.
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  #20  
Old 17th February 2007, 07:53
ranger66 ranger66 is offline  
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Sorry Joe - Don't remember the name of that other ship. Just remember that she was mentioned by engineering as a more successful application of the technology.
I don't recognize the name you referred to but I have been retired since 2000 and lots of people there now that I don't know. Still working summers up in the Charlottes on small passenger ships - that's where old ferry captains go to die!
I am enjoying browsing the Denholms posts. Most of the references are after 1966 when I left for BC, but there are quite a few names that I remember - most of them fondly!
Happy days indeed, or maybe time just filters out the bad stuff.
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  #21  
Old 17th February 2007, 13:30
randcmackenzie randcmackenzie is offline  
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Sorry Joe - Don't remember the name of that other ship. Just remember that she was mentioned by engineering as a more successful application of the technology.
I don't recognize the name you referred to but I have been retired since 2000 and lots of people there now that I don't know. Still working summers up in the Charlottes on small passenger ships - that's where old ferry captains go to die!
I am enjoying browsing the Denholms posts. Most of the references are after 1966 when I left for BC, but there are quite a few names that I remember - most of them fondly!
Happy days indeed, or maybe time just filters out the bad stuff.
I can't remember the name, but began with R, and she belonged to Bolton Steamship - REMBRANDT, ROLAND ??? Something like that.
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Old 17th February 2007, 17:58
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I can't remember the name, but began with R, and she belonged to Bolton Steamship - REMBRANDT, ROLAND ??? Something like that.
there was ripon --redcar--rembrandt--revaux--ribblehead and one more can you remember the other roddy? kev
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  #23  
Old 17th February 2007, 20:26
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there was ripon --redcar--rembrandt--revaux--ribblehead and one more can you remember the other roddy? kev
by the way we seem to have an awfull lot of nosey bastards on this site always looking but posting nothing i wish they would all grow up because i know a few of them regards kev.
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  #24  
Old 17th February 2007, 20:33
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by the way we seem to have an awfull lot of nosey bastards on this site always looking but posting nothing i wish they would all grow up because i know a few of them regards kev.
hi ray and john i dont mean you ,you always call a spade a spade i was in the local shop today and a comment was past about postings so i said why dont you post yourself thats why the site is there pissed of kevin.
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  #25  
Old 21st February 2007, 00:06
Joe Freeman Joe Freeman is offline  
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Yes gentlemen you are all correct there was a ship called gtv REMBRANDT 3 powered by five free piston gasifiers. This information was provided by a member Baltic Wal in a thread that I discovered from viewing a picture of this ship in the photo gallery.
From Baltic Wal's experience it seems that this ship also had troubles with her gasifiers giving the deck boys lots of time ashore.
The ship was built at Smith's docks and owned and operated by Bolton's and was the second British Merchant Ship with a gas turbine powered by free piston gasifiers.
I would be pleased to hear from any engineers or mates who sailed on Rembrandt 3 during the time she had the gas turbine engine.
Thanks again,
Joe.
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