chasH

ChasH
31st May 2015, 08:15
Just reading a book about Blue Flu is it true they never insured their ships because the were built to such a standard that they were virtually unsinkable or built way and above most other ships, (excluding R.N.)
chas

Robert Hilton
31st May 2015, 09:57
It used to be said they were never insured, or that they insured themselves, whatever that may mean.

chadburn
31st May 2015, 11:24
As they may have obtained the vessels via a Bank, the Bank would possibly have insured the vessels to protect the loan. It is true to say that their are plenty of smaller craft sailing around today that are not insured.

trotterdotpom
31st May 2015, 12:06
Building an "unsinkable ship" sounds a bit like "famous last words". I've heard somewhere that they held their own insurance, as Robert says, whatever that means. Maybe they got a discount from Lloyds.

I also heard that their courses were inked onto ships' charts and no deviation was permitted by the company. This ensured that if any ship got into bother, there would be another company one along before too long. Plenty of Blue Funnellers around, one of them should know the answer.

John T

TABNAB
1st June 2015, 14:30
It was said when I sailed with AH in the 50's that they didn't insure their ships but did insure the cargoes. They reckoned that they could build a new ship every year with the money saved on premiums. I understand that was the reason we always were further off the coast off Portugal and similar coast lines and double watches from St Vincent to St Vincent - the nav guys may be able to confirm this.

Maser3200
1st June 2015, 15:47
It is common for assets to be self insured if the value can be covered from reserves set aside to replace the assets over time. The "premium" for the insurance would be provided for as part of the general operations but the cash kept in the company. All government vehicles (Post Office, Forestry, etc) are self insured by HMG - they just have to lodge a deposit at BoE and carry on.

Robert Hilton
1st June 2015, 15:52
It is common for assets to be self insured if the value can be covered from reserves set aside to replace the assets over time. The "premium" for the insurance would be provided for as part of the general operations but the cash kept in the company. All government vehicles (Post Office, Forestry, etc) are self insured by HMG - they just have to lodge a deposit at BoE and carry on.

Thanks for that bit of enlightenment. I had idly wondered over the years how self insurance works. It's a bit like good housekeeping. Not a thing governments are known for. Are they doing it right these days?

Maser3200
1st June 2015, 15:57
One would only know the answer to that when hit by a post office van or a forestry tractor...in this age of H&S drivers have to be risk assessed and trained so probably overall a better experience than paying ever increasing insurance premiums. It also means younger members of staff can drive commercial vehicles at a younger age. A bit like a middy being on watch single handed.

Hugh Ferguson
1st June 2015, 16:06
In Lloyds they were classified as Holt's Class as they were built to a higher standard. If they lost a ship, which happened from time to time, the company bore the loss. The cargo, of course, was insured.
This reminded me, when joining the maiden voyage A.Class Agapenor on the Clyde in 1947, of Lawrence Holt remarking that this was the first ship which had cost more than a million smackers!

OilJiver
1st June 2015, 16:33
......This reminded me, when joining the maiden voyage A.Class Agapenor on the Clyde in 1947, of Lawrence Holt remarking that this was the first ship which had cost more than a million smackers!

More than an SD14 20 years later Hugh!

Duncan112
1st June 2015, 19:21
It is common for assets to be self insured if the value can be covered from reserves set aside to replace the assets over time. The "premium" for the insurance would be provided for as part of the general operations but the cash kept in the company. All government vehicles (Post Office, Forestry, etc) are self insured by HMG - they just have to lodge a deposit at BoE and carry on.

The option to insure a motor vehicle by placing a deposit of 500,000 with the Supreme Court is open to anyone who can afford it, and I believe a few people with a large collection of cars make use of the facility. As with being a Lloyds Name you retain control and beneficial interest in the assets.

Billhobbs
2nd June 2015, 07:49
I have a vague recollection that our charts in Blue Funnel had "Way Points" marked through which vessels were expected to sail. This may have been something to do with providing assistance to other vessels in the fleet but then maybe it was the 2nd mate winding up the keen cadet with a tall story. There were no "way points" on EDL charts according to my memory.

The insurance question is interesting. Cargo insurance is the responsibility of the shipper on the bill of lading. Of course in the event of damage or loss it is that insurance that chases the vessels owner for recovery who normally covers their exposure through P&I Club. Now in the event of damage or loss to hull or machinery the owner has the option to declare General Average. The shipper then has to contribute (relative to the value of his cargo) to the GA fund which the owner and/or his insurers use to defray the costs of repair to the vessel. This harks back to the early days of sail etc when owners and merchants were deemed to be partners in a voyage and losses and profits on the voyage were shared. Vessel and cargo insurance and how the two intertwine is a fascinating subject.

Pat Kennedy
2nd June 2015, 08:18
I was told that a Blue Funnel ship's master had to lodge some sort of bond with the owners, so if there was a mishap, he suffered financially. That would tend to concentrate the mind.
Pat(Smoke)

chadburn
2nd June 2015, 10:34
The option to insure a motor vehicle by placing a deposit of 500,000 with the Supreme Court is open to anyone who can afford it, and I believe a few people with a large collection of cars make use of the facility. As with being a Lloyds Name you retain control and beneficial interest in the assets.

You beat me to it Duncan, when one car can go for around 3million and the owner can afford it then a Bond of 500,000 makes sense.

trotterdotpom
2nd June 2015, 11:20
Some interesting answers to a well known nautical quandary that I always thought was a myth.

Barrie, the ED way points to Warri and Sapele were notches in the creek banks and a mountain of lost soap at Youngtown Crossing ("Flash for a dash"). Happy days.

John T

Basil
2nd June 2015, 12:32
ISTR hearing something about 'Red line tracks', one of the assumptions being that, if your sister ships hadn't hit an uncharted reef then you wouldn't either.
Grounding of QE2 in 1992 being an example.

Baz1uk
2nd June 2015, 14:55
Might be of interest: In 1875, the Blue Funnel fleet suffered its first total loss when the Hector struck a reef and sank. This and a succession of
collisions, groundings and breakdowns, all contributed to a reduction in earnings through lost freight. It is worth noting here that,
from this point onwards, Alfred and Philip Holt decided that the Ocean Steam Ship Company would cease insuring its ships and
that the Company would assume the whole of the risk on its vessels.

gregor12
11th June 2015, 21:45
Can confirm that in the 50's Masters with BF had to lodge a bond of 2,000 with the Company.

Can also confirm that Crown vehicles still do not carry commercial insurannce but are self insured by the Crown.