NY State Merchant Marine Academy

peachymeyer
22nd June 2015, 00:43
Any really old cadets or graduates? c. 1931?

LRUBIN
22nd June 2015, 05:20
Not what your looking for but I graduated from the Masters program in 1976, did not attend as an undergraduate.

peachymeyer
22nd June 2015, 06:57
Thanks!

trotterdotpom
22nd June 2015, 11:22
Probably not a lot left, unfortunately, PM. There are a lot of photos of the Academy's ship "Empire State" in the SN Gallery. I posted one myself from when she was in Cobh (pronounced "Cove"), Ireland, last year. Also one of a charming cadet on Gangway Duty. She was a credit to the Academy and its former students. Trouble is, I can't find them now.

John T

peachymeyer
22nd June 2015, 17:34
Thank you, John. I would love to have been a cadet there, but back in my day that was not for women. I did learn a lot from my father, who was a graduate and a retired MM officer. But I had a totally different career. I"ll attach a photo of my father on his training ship, USS Newport.

Waighty
24th June 2015, 10:04
I would be keen to know how the US system of training and certification of Merchant Marine officers varied from the UK system - I'm thinking here of the period when the UK still had sensible names for their certificates - 2nd Mates, 1st Mates, Master F.G. etc.

peachymeyer
24th June 2015, 17:57
I would be keen to know how the US system of training and certification of Merchant Marine officers varied from the UK system - I'm thinking here of the period when the UK still had sensible names for their certificates - 2nd Mates, 1st Mates, Master F.G. etc.
Waighty, I'll try to forward your query to SUNY Maritime (State U. of NY,current home of the NYSMMA).

peachymeyer
24th June 2015, 18:20
Waighty, here is the email address of the librarian at SUNY Maritime, Mona Ramonetti, who has access to historical information about the school: [email protected]
I hope she can give you some information on your query.
Paula

Waighty
17th July 2015, 15:16
Waighty, I'll try to forward your query to SUNY Maritime (State U. of NY,current home of the NYSMMA).

Many thanks Peachmeyer; sorry for long delay in replying.

Klaatu83
12th August 2015, 02:09
Thank you, John. I would love to have been a cadet there, but back in my day that was not for women. I did learn a lot from my father, who was a graduate and a retired MM officer. But I had a totally different career. I"ll attach a photo of my father on his training ship, USS Newport.

I graduated in 1975 so I was there when the college first accepted female cadets, which was in the Fall of 1974. As I recall there were seven female cadets that year. The word went out that they were to be treated the same as any other "mugs". Needless to say they weren't, they were treated with far more deference than the men.

Klaatu83
12th August 2015, 02:31
I would be keen to know how the US system of training and certification of Merchant Marine officers varied from the UK system - I'm thinking here of the period when the UK still had sensible names for their certificates - 2nd Mates, 1st Mates, Master F.G. etc.

I'm not familiar with the current system of training and certification in Britain, but our system seems pretty thorough. We spent four years as cadets, including three summer sea terms. I had two siblings enrolled in regular colleges at that time, and I know that my academic curriculum was markedly more intensive than theirs, particularly in mathematics and the sciences. The number of credit hours per semester was markedly higher. Apart from the obvious nautical and navigation courses, the curriculum included such diverse subjects as English literature, calculus, physics, meteorology, oceanography, poetry, a foreign language, economics, computer programming, admiralty law and naval architecture. In addition to the exams administered by the college, during their last year each cadet had to sit for a series of merchant marine license exams administered by Coast Guard. That series of exams took a week to complete, and included separate exams in Morse Code signalling by flashing light and another to qualify for a radio-telephone operators license issued by the Federal Communications Commission. Once the cadet had passed all that he was licensed to sail as a Third Mate. He was considered qualified to sit for the 2nd Mate's license exam after he had acquired a year of sea time as 3rd Mate, and so on until he passed his Chief Mates and Master's license exams. Of course, over the years a lot of additional qualifications have been added on, such as STCW and GMDSS certification. In addition to those, most of us also became qualified as Emergency Medical Technicians so that we could run the ship's sick bay, although that is not mandatory. Incidentally, when I was sailing for the Military Sealift Command, the U.S. equivalent to Britain's Royal Fleet Auxiliary, they liked to refer to their licensed deck officers as "Third Officer", "First Officer", etc. I was given to understand that they didn't like referring to officers as "Mates" because, in the Navy, a "Mate" is a petty officer. Nevertheless, the wording on the license was "Mate", not "Officer".

Bill.B
12th August 2015, 20:42
Got a good glimpse of the U.S. System at Castine Maine in 2005. I was there for an Anschutz gyro steering course and it was the beginning of term. All the cadets were in uniform and it was a very military experience. In the food hall at meals they all had books which they were reading and seniors were asking them questions which if they couldn't recite the answers correctly they got sent to the back of the line. They had to march following the sides of the room and when eating had to eat with straight or bent arms. I believe they call it "square meal" eating. To all of us this was truly amazing. Our German lecturer was astonished. During a pee break we went to the toilet where a first year cadet was literally hugging the toilet while two friends had hold of his feet and were trying to drag him out of the stall. He was very upset and wanted to quit and his mates were encouraging him not too. A lot of graduates have reserve status so the schools have a strong military element. After seeing this I was glad to have gone through the UK system as a long haired parka wearing scruff. I would not have liked a child of mine to go through what we all witnessed. I have worked for years with US Mariners and they seemed to have survived the experience o.k. They also have a premier academy, depends on who you talk to, at Kings Point. To get in you need congressional support. The states have their own schools as well. The unions have training schools for further education too. You can't really compare the UK system to the USA but they try to achieve the same end result.

Klaatu83
15th August 2015, 02:26
[QUOTE=Bill.B;1571290]They also have a premier academy, depends on who you talk to, at Kings Point. To get in you need congressional support. The states have their own schools as well. The unions have training schools for further education too.

Kings Point is a Federal Academy, like West Point and Annapolis. The other maritime academies, like NY and Maine, are State Colleges. My union has it's own school, but only for continuing education and license advancement for those who are already licensed officers. The Marine Engineers union used to train entry-level engineering cadets, part of who's training was carried out on merchant vessels but, so far as I am aware, that program has been discontinued. In any case, I have not seen an "MEBA Cadet" on board any ship I was on since the early 1980s.

I am not in favor of the degree of hazing that goes on in these maritime academies. There has always been an attitude among a certain number of the upper-class cadets to the effect that "I had to go though this in my time, so I'm going to put you through it now". It always seemed to me that the ones who complained the most when they were being put through it were the most eager to put the succeeding classes through the same thing. Personally, I felt that I had enough of my own business to attend to without wasting my time hazing underclassmen, whom I did not know and about whom I couldn't have cared less. However, that being said, I have never heard of any maritime academy cadet being killed as a result of hazing, which is a lot more than can be said about the hazing that is inflicted upon those pledging fraternities in the regular colleges.

Wallace Slough
15th August 2015, 02:53
I graduated from the California Maritime Academy (a State school) in 1966. We certainly had a fair amount of hazing at that time, but I was surprised to read Bill's comments about seeing it at Maine in 2005. From what I've seen at CMA in the past few years, there seems to be minimal hazing. I would agree with Klaatu that it serves no purpose and should be eliminated.

With regards to the quality of education received when I attended, I believe it was excellent. At that time CMA was essentially a trade school with an emphasis on hands on seamanship and navigation. I understand that has changed and the cadets receive a much broader education today.

Varley
15th August 2015, 10:22
An interesting comment Wallace. I think the broader education (I experienced a tiny bit of that when returning to school for electronics 'boosting' in 1975) was because the education industry and political guidance was that one could not educate/train a pupil so particularly that he could only serve one enterprise. From the left this would disadvantage the individual. From the right this would make the work force less flexible overall. For the enterprise for which the narrower, specialist treatment was targeted I think the broadening of the curriculum cannot have been so advantageous. Too narrow is bad for the enterprise - can't articulate with other departments or even aggregate kit. Too wide is bad for the enterprise too, at least in the short term. No sooner are they bedded in to your scheme when they're off to pastures new.

Returning to school we found that the course could not be run without 'general studies' which, to big headed sods, sounded like a waste of beer time. We did choose certain lectures to attend 'Report Writing' was one (and I am still mindful that a report usually says more about the writer than the subject, much like a post I suppose) otherwise we would leave a note to say where we would be (The Whestoe or the bowling green) with the invitation to join us.

trotterdotpom
15th August 2015, 11:41
They've got girls at that NY State Academy now so, hopefully, they've got away from all that homoerotic "hazing" - of course, it could have got worse as in the
Australian Military Academy which seems to have become an unsavoury iPhone shagarama.

John T