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Flag to fly?

9K views 40 replies 25 participants last post by  Bankman 
#1 ·
GM
we had a discussion onboard the coaster I serve on these days abt which flag to fly. The vessel is Dutch, and in UK we flew the Union Jack in the foremast, as there wasn't anything else onboard. Wouldn't the Red Ensign be more correct? My reliever didn't agree with me; according to him it doesn't matter. I'm right mates, am I not ?
(wont tell u the nationallity of my reliever)
 
#6 ·
Hi Ralf,
The idea of a courtesy flag is to acknowlege the visiting coutries Merchant Navy, hence when you come to the UK you fly the Red Ensign, not like Eastern Block countries who fly the Union Jack. This flag is purely a privalage for Royal Naval Warships to fly at the bow, once their lines are on the quay. Similarly, Merchant vesels, British flags of course, fly the Pilot Jack, which is a Union Flag surrounded by a white border, only when you are tied up alongside or on any mooring. Normally a visiting Merchant vessel only flies the corresponding Merchant flag for that country. Often in Spain,ships fly the Spanish National flag , which has a badge in the centre of the yellow bit, but this incorrect as the Spanish Merchant Ensign is purely Red, Yellow, Red.
Hope this clears up any queries.
Best regards,
Chris
 
#7 ·
The Union flag of Great Britain can only be flown, from the Stem Jack, if there are any representitives of HM Government or anyone from the British Royal family on board said vessel. Hence, RN vessels fly Union flag with the Commander being a representitive of HM Government. I remember reading this from a book which covered 'Flag Etiquette' when at Gravesend Sea factory.
 
#8 ·
As Captain Chris says, the correct courtesy flag for ships entering the UK is the Red Ensign, similarly, in Australia and New Zealand, their Red Ensigns should be flown. However, I believe, the national flags are an acceptable substitue if nothing else is available. I was interested to read about the Spanish flag - you live and learn.

I remember arriving in Indonesia with the H Flag fastened up sideways because we didn't have an Indonesian flag. Good job we had two H flags as there was also a Pilot on Board - it costs a lot of Scotch to piss anybody off in that place!

I recall a bit of confusion in a conversation with some Americans about the "Union Jack". The canton containing the 50 stars on the Stars and Stripes is called the "Union" and this is the flag flown on the jack staff of US naval ships and is, therefore, called the "Union Jack". So, "Union Jack" is not just the preserve of us English.

John T.
 
#9 ·
As a second trip Cadet was told to hoist the courtesy ensign on approaching Cristobal for the Panama Canal. It was nearly my last trip when the Old Man spotted the Panamanian flag flying instead of the Stars and Bars.

How times have changed!
 
#10 ·
Courtesy Flags

On one ship that I was on there was much excitement on arrival in Belfast to find that the Irish tricolour had been hoisted as the courtesy flag!
 
#11 ·
Interesting subject. I was always taught that the British national flag was the Union Flag but, if flown as a Jack on a warship became a Union Jack. The canton of the American Stars & Stripes is only ever, I beleive, flown as a Jack & is therefore properly called a Union Jack.

When I was with Geest we carried the Governor General around the Windward Islands & were instructed, by whom I can't remember, to fly the Union Flag at the fore-truck when he was actually on board. Was this correct?

Somewhere, & I think it is easily accessible on a web site, is a long article in respect of the what we call the British Pilot Jack from a long way back. It points out that it is (was) illegal to fly that flag except when requiring the services of a pilot & that ships should normally fly a house or owner's flag from the jackstaff. Many older paintings of ships show a "Pilot Jack" flown at the fore-truck; I have a feeling that before the days of radio ships approaching the pilot grounds of Brixham, Ushant, the Downs etc., would fly a flag to indicate the nationality of the port to which they were bound in order to attract the attention of the required pilot boat. The flag was simply the National Flag of the country concerned sewn onto a white sheet or peice of light duck canvas.

Tony
 
#13 ·
Thanks for the info about the Pilot Jack, Tony. I looked it up in Wikipedia and found that the use of the Pilot Jack (ie Union Flag with white background) meaning "I require a Pilot" went out in 1970. Presumeably, it was replaced by the yellow and blue striped flag up the mast, meaning:"Gee, I'd like a pilot." Personally, I've never heard of anything but the G flag for that purpose, I thought it was in use much before 1970.

From what Pat McCardle and Captainchris say, you were doing the right thing when carting the Governor General round the islands, he being the Queen's representative. My short experience of Geest Line was pretty good, you must have done spectacularly well with His Excellency aboard.

As you say, the proper name for the British national flag is the Union Flag, but, apparently, "Union Jack" has become acceptable through its popular usage for many years.

Captainchris mentions the Eastern Bloc ships flying the Union Flag as a courtesy flag - could be the thin end of the wedge. I wouldn't like to see another tradition disappearing due to slackness or some perception that it is "just bull****". Crack down on those ex commies, I say!

John T.
 
#36 ·
Thanks for the info about the Pilot Jack, Tony. I looked it up in Wikipedia and found that the use of the Pilot Jack (ie Union Flag with white background) meaning "I require a Pilot" went out in 1970. Presumeably, it was replaced by the yellow and blue striped flag up the mast, meaning:"Gee, I'd like a pilot." Personally, I've never heard of anything but the G flag for that purpose, I thought it was in use much before 1970.

etc etc..................

John T.
During my time at sea 1959 - 1970 G flag inter code certainly meant I require pilot; never heard of bow jack ever being used for this purpose in the 1960s although always flown on the bow staff. Can anyone shed light regarding earlier decades?
 
#14 ·
While on this subject I must deplore the practice of some British yachtsmen, fishermen & possibly others of flying flags of constituent countries of the Union on the ensign staff. Well may they fly their own national flags elsewhere on their vessel with pride as I used to on the port spreader halliard when I had yachts under the Swedish & U.S. flags. However, the correct merchant ensign (or other if applicable) should always be flown in the proper
position.

Tony
 
#16 ·
I remember the days when the red ensign, before it could be relegated to the rag bag, had to have the union flag cut out. The red bunting was then transfered to the rag bag and the union flag burnt. Also, heaven help any cadet who let the red ensign touch the deck when being bent onto the halyard.

These days, my first duty on entering the bridge each morning is to look up and make sure my Filipino crew have put the red ensign the right way up.

For info, as far as I am aware, the Australian authorities now insist that the correct courtesy flag is the Australian ensign and that only Australian flag vessls are permitted to fly the Australian red ensign.
 
#34 ·
I ...

These days, my first duty on entering the bridge each morning is to look up and make sure my Filipino crew have put the red ensign the right way up.

....
Which reminds me: last time I went to Antwerp, was surprised to see one of the two pilots come back into the wheelhouse doubled up laughing (a Belgian even!) Turned out that he'd just told our (Kiwi) cadet that the Belgian flag was upside down!
 
#18 ·
Thanks mates, when I go back the Red Ensign will be ordered asap, so at least the Nordgard will fly the correct courtesy flag.
there must be hundreds of tales abt these flags. Once in Rostock, back with good old DDR my AB hoisted the flag the wrong way! Stevedores went on strike!
 
#19 ·
Australian Red Ensign

"For info, as far as I am aware, the Australian authorities now insist that the correct courtesy flag is the Australian ensign and that only Australian flag vessls are permitted to fly the Australian red ensign"

That's a new one on me, Cap'n Pete - if so, I'm very disappointed. I've consulted the authorities and will advise of their response.

John T.
 
#20 ·
"For info, as far as I am aware, the Australian authorities now insist that the correct courtesy flag is the Australian ensign and that only Australian flag vessls are permitted to fly the Australian red ensign"

That's a new one on me, Cap'n Pete - if so, I'm very disappointed. I've consulted the authorities and will advise of their response.

John T.
This was certainly the case when I was last in Botany Bay (an absolutely awful port; if the First Fleet gave up on it, why on Earth did they build a port there). Of course, it could have been the local harbour master having a bad day.

Of course, the NSW port authority was the one that stopped it's pilots and harbour masters from calling themselves "captain".
 
#23 ·
Cap'n Pete, I've just been informed by John Vaughan of the Australian National Flag Association that the correct courtesy flag for foreign ships to fly in Australian waters is the Australian national flag, ie the blue one.

Sadly, you were right, but at least it's not a boxing kangaroo or one of those other silly rags you see around the place.

John T.
 
#30 ·
Thanks for checking John. As the red ensign is now a flag-of-convenience, I do not blame the Australian authorities from prohibiting it's use as a courtesy flag. As one of the last British captains to sail on British-flag ships, I am only too aware that my days are numbered and that I will be soon replaced by an Eastern European or Filipino.
 
#24 ·
There has recently been a spot of controversy regarding the WAVERLEY flying the Welsh Red Dragon as a jack when on the Clyde. Apparently the jack on that vessel also indicates the nationality of the master (seemingly there being no British anymore ) and the vessel flies either the Saltire or the Dragon in any location accordingly. I don't know if she has yet had the opportunity to fly the Crosses of St. George or St. Patrick.

Last week I was photographing from the harbour entrance at Milford & snapped two trawlers with what looked sheet steel national 'flags' apparently welded to vertical pipes ( they could not be called masts or staffs ). The Belgian's was painted in the red/yellow/black tricolour while the British one, whose crew spoke a latin language, was painted with a very faded & incorrectly proportioned Union flag. When is a flag not a flag?

Tony
 
#27 ·
As third mate I checked the flag locker when we got orders to load for Cork and Dublin, as we had no Eire flag I suggested to the old man that we get one from the chandler when we got to Australia. He promptly informed me that no republican flag would ever fly above his ship. He was from Co. Antrim.
A few months later when the pilot boarded he pointed out that our Yugoslav flag at the fore yard was minus the communist star. I got called to the bridge to sew on two red stars, despite the pilot assuring the old man that there would be no problem with officials. Half an hour from the berth I am on the chartroom deck drawing stars on the back of an old chart with pencil and twine. Fortunately the old man got on his knees to assist and got his pants in a twist and decided to take the pilot's advice. Years later in Long Beach, the day of Jack Kennedy's funeral, the longshoremen objected to us not having the courtesy flag at half mast. So so we lowered it at the fore yard to avoid hassle.
 
#28 ·
Tony,

Your remarks about the Waverley reminds me of an occasion when calling at Leith in the educational cruise ship NEVASA. It had been the custom when calling at Scottish ports to fly the "Lion Rampant" at the foremasthead as a courtesy flag! On this particular occasion, an eagle eye ashore must have taken exception to this because several hours after arrival the (Edinburgh) agent boarded and relayed instructions from the Lord Lyon King of Arms that it was improper to fly the Lion Rampant and that the practice should cease! Thereafter, we always used "M" flag, as the Scottish Saltire!

Regarding the other points in this discussion, in our ships, there was a short period of several months after India either became "independent" (15/08/47) or became a republic (Jan '51?) when our ships were issued with and flew the national flag of India as a courtesey flag in Indian ports. Thereafter, the Indian merchant ensign was issued and used (red ensign with the Indian tricolour in the upper hoist canton)

Flag drill in BI ships (until the "Revolution" - assimilation into P&O) was always scrupulously observed under the direct responsibility of the 3/O. Should more than one of the company's ships be in port, then that of the senior master (Commander) "broke out" 5 pennant five minutes before 0800 or sunset. The junior ship(s) immediately responded by breaking out the answering pennant.
At the appropriate time the senior ship rapidly lowered 5 pennant (usually this was accelerated by cylindrical canvas sandbag being clipped below the pennant) and all the ships hoisted/broke out/lowered their flags as appropriate
With courtesy flag, jack, houseflag, ensign, Royal Mail pennant and even in Hong Kong, "joss" flag this entailed six kalassis plus the serang or one of the deck tindals...the latter "piping" the procedure on the bosun's pipe!

(on at least one occasion a cargo wallah "idling" below the foremast yardarm was struck by the said sandbag!)

Needless to say, when the time and motion folk came on the scene, the flag drill suffered.

Tom
 
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