Menu translation

double acting
18th November 2015, 17:22
When I joined Union Castle in 1958 I was issued with a couple of sheets of A4 on which culinary terms were "translated" into English. If it said Florentine it had spinach. A Weiner Schnitzel was a veal cutlet, if the thing was Holstein it meant it had a fried egg on top, etc etc

This was to prevent staff from cargo boats starving to death in mail boat dining saloons.

Does anyone have a copy of this document? If so could you put it on line as a JPEG ?

John Rogers
18th November 2015, 17:42
The Weiner Schnitzel is one of my favorite meals ,the wife makes for me, not forgetting the Jagger Schnitzel, that's the one with the brown gravy.
Since we don't get a lot a veal in my area we use pork.

Sorry I cant help you with the document.

Barrie Youde
18th November 2015, 18:47
Kromeskies a la Russe
Sweetbreads
Baked Alaska
Duchesse Potatoes
Hake Portugaise
Sauteed Potatoes
Petit Fours
Norfolk Turkey
Wiltshire Bacon
Wiltshire Ham
Wiltshire Gammon
Rognons de veaux
Consomme Royale
Brown Windsor Soup
Turbot Mornay
Nasi Goerang
Cotelets de Porc
Petit Pois
All of these delicacies and wonderments were completely unknown to me on joining Blue Flue at the age of 16. Turkey, pork, bacon, ham, and gammon I knew very well, but not by county. Quel introduction! Most of them I didn’t hear again, anywhere else, for about ten years.
Vividly I recall being introduced to a courgette in 1968 when I was aged 25.
Funnily enough, I don’t recall (in Blue Flue) any specialities as to beef or lamb. There must surely have been some?

PS I do remember Lancashire Hot-Pot - and everybody said, "Oh! Christ!"

Pat Kennedy
18th November 2015, 19:50
Kromeskies a la Russe
Sweetbreads
Baked Alaska
Duchesse Potatoes
Hake Portugaise
Sauteed Potatoes
Petit Fours
Norfolk Turkey
Wiltshire Bacon
Wiltshire Ham
Wiltshire Gammon
Rognons de veaux
Consomme Royale
Brown Windsor Soup
Turbot Mornay
Nasi Goerang
Cotelets de Porc
Petit Pois
All of these delicacies and wonderments were completely unknown to me on joining Blue Flue at the age of 16. Turkey, pork, bacon, ham, and gammon I knew very well, but not by county. Quel introduction! Most of them I didnít hear again, anywhere else, for about ten years.
Vividly I recall being introduced to a courgette in 1968 when I was aged 25.
Funnily enough, I donít recall (in Blue Flue) any specialities as to beef or lamb. There must surely have been some?

PS I do remember Lancashire Hot-Pot - and everybody said, "Oh! Christ!"


Oxtails was a staple in the sailor's mess, as was corned beef hash. Not forgetting curried beef, which we often got as an entree, and which was universally known as "Mad Woman's Sh1te".
I have seen on saloon menus in BF, such items as Beef Stroganoff, Tournedos Rossini, and Beef Bourguignon, but these exotic dishes never made their way into the sailor's messroom.
Blue Funnel was notorious for feeding us pork. We got roast pork at least three times a week, and pork chop once or twice. Touted as a cure for seasickness, I can personally refute that!

Barrie Youde
18th November 2015, 20:38
Thank you, Pat.

Now that you mention it I do remember Bouef Bourgignon, Beef Strog and Spag Bol, and perhaps even Gigot d'agneau an Epaule d'agneau - and am very grateful for it!

Le poulet (or l'oiseau mort) was usually as vulcanised rubber - and I don't recall it with the same affection at all.

Best of all, though, surely, were tabnabs at mid-afternoon, in any shape or form! Even today, a cup of tea at 1600 hrs is not complete unless there is a tabnab of some kind therewith!

Coffee? Aged 16 I had not graduated to coffee; and the aroma (as of Coopers on the corner of Whitechapel/ Paradise Street) in heavy weather was the only thing which made me seasick - and, yes, it did. I did not graduate into coffee until the age of about 19 - and the later experiences of all the coffees of Europe (all imported hereto) have become a delight!

Magic!

Pat Kennedy
18th November 2015, 20:50
There was also a beef dish often served in Blueys, which was a roast joint with carrots inserted into it at some stage in the cooking process.
No doubt there is a high faluting name for this concoction but I dont recall it.

Barrie Youde
18th November 2015, 21:01
Carrots inserted into beef? That must be silverside, surely?

trotterdotpom
18th November 2015, 22:25
There was also a beef dish often served in Blueys, which was a roast joint with carrots inserted into it at some stage in the cooking process.
No doubt there is a high faluting name for this concoction but I dont recall it.

Beef a la mode.

John T

PS it must have been tough on the cooks having to make two lots of food, one for officers and one for crew. Not very economical either.

John Rogers
18th November 2015, 22:54
In my early days on a coaster one meal we were always served was "Schooner On The Rocks" a pork roast in a pan surrounded with spuds, carrots, and onions, the Veggies were cooked in the fat from the pork.

spongebob
19th November 2015, 02:31
There was also a beef dish often served in Blueys, which was a roast joint with carrots inserted into it at some stage in the cooking process.
No doubt there is a high faluting name for this concoction but I dont recall it.

This dish was served regularly on board "Rangitane" and was based on a piece of roast topside. The joint was stabbed with a sharp tapered knife and the cut cavities stuffed with carrot, parsnip and the like before roasting.
When served as a sliced cold cut the rings of vegetable looked rather attractive and inviting for most but my first sampling saw me remark "this cow has not chewed its cud properly".
I was called a native savage or similar by at least one in the engineers mess whose stomach was a little delicate at sea.

Bob

kauvaka
19th November 2015, 05:40
Having grown up postwar on porridge for breakfast I thought BP's "Rolled oats" would be a pleasant change. Yeah, right!

tiachapman
19th November 2015, 07:03
with a c/h steward a few times know didnt known as mince and dumplings.

didnt know up to then there were so many ways to serve up mince

D1566
19th November 2015, 07:16
with a c/h steward a few times know didnt known as mince and dumplings.

didnt know up to then there were so many ways to serve up mince
His name wasn't Len (something) was it? From Newcastle?

Tony Selman
19th November 2015, 08:45
It was Oxtail Jardiniere I did not like much. Never eaten it before or since. Someone told me it was a delicacy in some parts of the world but not in my house.

woodend
19th November 2015, 09:06
Was E.D.'s the only company whose passenger ships navigated by the menu. Being a 'local lad' my wife used to join us at the Landing Stage each voyage after tie up and come round to the dock with us. Still tells the story that it was rhe same menu on docking day.......lamb chops for lunch.[=P]

D1566
19th November 2015, 09:18
It was Oxtail Jardiniere I did not like much. Never eaten it before or since. Someone told me it was a delicacy in some parts of the world but not in my house.
Have never touched it since I came ashore! :p

Kanbe
19th November 2015, 09:46
Before the war of 1967 I understand that it was traditional to serve Sausage Rolls during the night of the Suez Canal transit. One bite just did not reach the filling, the second you had past it seemed to be the consensus of opinion.
There was also the Elders Chief Steward who joined every ship with the voyage menus already worked out - Seven breakfasts, seven lunches and seven dinners i.e. one of each for each day of the week.
Kanbe

Kanbe
19th November 2015, 09:47
Sausage rolls refer to blueys

Kanbe

slick
19th November 2015, 11:06
All,
In Hains Curried Beef always drew the comment "I see the Cook has lifted the meat room duck boards again", Brown Windsor soup, what was that?

Yours aye,

slick

Barrie Youde
19th November 2015, 11:11
# 20

Brown Windsor was brown in colour, contents largely unknown!

Originally beef in some form, I'd guess.

Kanbe
19th November 2015, 11:51
Brown Windsor soup - Gravy mark 2. Being gravy further diluted

Kanbe

alan ward
19th November 2015, 13:55
You lot never ate as well before you joined and a few of you haven`t since you left,what choice did your mum give you for breakfast? take it or leave it.My mum was an exceptional cook and could make what was available in the early 50`s go a long way supplemented,as was my nans table,by home preserved friit and vegetables from the garden. Even so when I joined the Accra I still didn`t know what half the stuff offered was and it certainly opened my eyes to how good food could be and why after 18 months I changed over to the catering department and loved it.

Union Jack
19th November 2015, 14:17
I do remember Lancashire Hot-Pot - and everybody said, "Oh! Christ!" - BY

More Grey Flue than Blue Flue, but this inevitably recalls an occasion in a frigate when Action Messing was under way, with the requirement to feed the entire ship's company of 270 within eight minutes. As the crew streamed through the junior rates' dining hall to exhortations from the Petty Officer Gunnery Instructor of "Eat it and beat it! Don't make a meal of it!", a young sailor asked the Petty Officer chef what the dumpling infested stew was. "Potmess, son", came the answer, but when the immediately following young officer asked the identical question about the identical dish, the answer was, "Boeuf a la mode, sir"!(Jester)

Jack

Basil
19th November 2015, 14:34
Fyffes in the early sixties served some of the best food I've eaten; the experience possibly enhanced, as some have already mentioned, by applying exotic names to mundane dishes.

Farmer John
19th November 2015, 17:33
I really don't want to do anything to put a crimp on this thread and I hope it continues at length, I will be reading with interest, but the thread https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=3646 Has twenty + pages on this subject. Don't stop posting on here, but don't miss reading that long and fascinating thread.

My strongest memories of Blue Funnel breakfasts is of black pudding (very good) combined with the taste of a preserved then fried egg. Quite a distinctive taste, and I can summon it at will. Never quite as good since.

Another strange dish, Collops on toast (mince on toast) for breakfast. Loved it. I can't remember any food that I didn't like, and I was shamefully skinny, going from 32 inch chest to 44 inches after working on farms. Pound after pound of potatoes and the neccessity to carry sacks of grains up steps did it for me.

Tony Morris
19th November 2015, 20:10
Having grown up in Redcar ( Warrenby ) joining my first Ropners ship the Bridgepool I had never heard of all these fancy meals, soups etc. & was compleatly lost on the silver service regarding which knives or forks to use .

Tony

Pat Kennedy
19th November 2015, 20:23
You lot never ate as well before you joined and a few of you haven`t since you left,what choice did your mum give you for breakfast? take it or leave it.My mum was an exceptional cook and could make what was available in the early 50`s go a long way supplemented,as was my nans table,by home preserved friit and vegetables from the garden. Even so when I joined the Accra I still didn`t know what half the stuff offered was and it certainly opened my eyes to how good food could be and why after 18 months I changed over to the catering department and loved it.

Perhaps there would not have been so much of this "wonderful food" going over the wall every day if the cook had fed us more of what we got at home. I used to yearn for sausage egg and chips, and apple pie with ice cream.
As for breakfast, Blue Funnel cooks were expert in producing rubber fried eggs and limp stringy bacon. most opted for cornflakes, and the rosie got most of the cooked breakfasts.

Barrie Youde
19th November 2015, 20:44
Aged 16 in December 1959 and keeping a gangway watch in Sydney, one evening, as a dinner party/corporate entertainment is taking place in the saloon - adjacent to the gangway. Junior middy - best whites and best behaviour.

Also adjacent to the gangway is the galley. Exit the Chef/Chief Cook, having done his best and in relaxed mode (avec lubrication):-

"Yer know, Midddy, people today don't know how to eat. Before the war, if a passenger had been served eggs with shell on the plate where it should not have been, they would have sent it back! Yer know?!?!"

I didn't know.

"Well, they would! The world has gone down the nick!"

I didn't know (and still don't know) whether I should have respected the Cook for his pride in his work or despised the pre-war passengers for their ingratitude and gluttony (even though the Cook didn't see it that way). My Mum had taught me that if there might be something wrong with some small part of the food, then simply to leave it on the side of the plate - and certainly not to make a song and dance about a piece of eggshell.

What to do with a small piece of eggshell today? Swallow it! It will do you no harm! An embryo fowl gave its life for you!

Pat Kennedy
19th November 2015, 21:33
One thing that could not be improved on in both quality and quantity was the bread.
Fresh out of the oven, there was always plenty for toast slathered in butter and marmalade, Ship's second cook/bakers were master craftsmen.

trotterdotpom
19th November 2015, 22:12
Fancy knocking Oxtail Jardinaire, aka known as "sh*tlids". I loved it. Very flavoursome.Those fried eggs in a hole in a slice of fried bread are pretty good too - I knew it as a "devilled egg". Dunno why it got that name. I never had it on a ship though.

John T

PS I don't worry too much if I swallow a bit of egg shell, but I do occasionally remember that it has come through a chuck's sh*t shute. One veteran trans-Atlantic steward told me that the old time "bloods" would never eat the outside of Camembert and Brie. They probably left half the cheese - personally I like the combination of creamy cheese and crunchy, chalky skin.

Farmer John
19th November 2015, 22:16
I remember my father-in-law pushing away a chicken dinner, saying he didn't eat that posh kind of stuff.

Barrie Youde
19th November 2015, 22:42
# 31

Camembert and Brie?

Of course, as La Colombie les Deux Eglises once expressed it, it is impossible to govern a nation which produces 365 different cheeses!

But what a dreadful waste of cheese you describe, JT!

My own roots are deep in the Cheshire cheese-trade!

holland25
19th November 2015, 23:25
On the Weather Ships we occasionally had Haggis, one of the radio techs, a Liverpudlian,expressed his disdain at being served such a dish. Unfortuantely the Chief Cook,who was sitting behind him at another table heard him, he was Scottish and took umbrage at the tech's remarks.

tiachapman
19th November 2015, 23:37
as one chief said its your Wack and thats it

Pat McCardle
20th November 2015, 13:17
My 2 years on Somerset was the best food that I have ever had on board ship....Well bar one trip!

Pat McCardle
20th November 2015, 13:18
BTW, lets not forget Sh*t on a Raft, one of my favourites to this day.

Basil
20th November 2015, 14:01
we occasionally had Haggis
Which, thank Christ, I only have to eat once a year.

With the exception of that made by Clark's in Largs, now, regrettably, out of business.

Scelerat
20th November 2015, 14:03
I was in a French restaurant yesterday in York, part of a chain, but very good. one of the items on the menu was CROMESQUIS, and my wife pointed out that these were, of course, Kromeskies.
http://www.caferouge.com/menus/main-menu

Hugh Wilson
20th November 2015, 14:24
For some reason, Kromeskie a la Russe is now called Pigs in Blankets - not quite the same is it?

double acting
21st November 2015, 16:05
Interesting replies indeed, but none of them answer my original question.

Does anyone have a copy of the culinary terms explained which union Castle used to issue?

Mike Harrison
21st November 2015, 19:33
For some reason, Kromeskie a la Russe is now called Pigs in Blankets - not quite the same is it?

I thought Pigs in Blankets were accompaniments to your Christmas turkey comprising small sausages wrapped in bacon. Whereas I seem to remember Kromeskies a la Russe on board were bigger and were some kind of minced meat and herbs wrapped in a batter or breadcrumbs and fried.

Pobydd
21st November 2015, 21:07
BP kromeskies were sausages wrapped in bacon and deep fried in batter as I recall.

ALBY2
22nd November 2015, 07:49
Beef a la mode.

John T

PS it must have been tough on the cooks having to make two lots of food, one for officers and one for crew. Not very economical either.

I remember the galley boy turning up in the engine control room one day looking for the "Carrot gun" as the cook was cooking Beef a la mode. It turned out the cook was fed up with the boy pestering him with questions and wanted him out of the galley for a bit of peace, of course we obliged by the boy from engineer to engineer pretending we didnt know who was repairing it.

trotterdotpom
22nd November 2015, 07:52
Good one Alby. Sometimes it doesn't help to be keen, does it?

John T

Barrie Youde
22nd November 2015, 08:21
#42

Agreed. Kromeskies as I knew them were as Mike describes them. Skinless sausages, perhaps, - and certainly without bacon.

My Papa used to speak with great affection of a Blue Flue shipmaster known throughout the fleet as "One-egg Turner", because of his rule in the saloon that no man was to be allowed more than one egg at a time.

Bill Morrison
23rd November 2015, 20:35
Interesting replies indeed, but none of them answer my original question.

Does anyone have a copy of the culinary terms explained which union Castle used to issue?

Sorry D.A. I don't have a copy of your initial request. I have a copy Union Castle menu from 1954. It came to me by way of a friend, some of the catering department may manage to translate.

Shipbuilder
23rd November 2015, 20:51
In Union-Castle, they also had "Hussar potatoes." When a newcomer asked me what they were, I said "they charge you for them!"(Jester)

Aboard Silverdon, we were once served "Lamb Amirstan." I asked the catering Officer if it was a real dish, or something from an old horror story. (The name had rung a distant bell in my memory). He looked a bit shifty, and confirmed it was from the horror story.

If you put "Lamb Amirstan" in Google, the short story is there in full - quite amusing!(EEK)

Bob

spongebob
23rd November 2015, 21:18
The Union Co used to buy "centipede" chickens, one breast and one hundred legs.
On Sunday midday meal the breast meat went to the skipper and chief engineer while we mortals were served the rest.

Bob

Dickyboy
23rd November 2015, 22:29
Sorry D.A. I don't have a copy of your initial request. I have a copy Union Castle menu from 1954. It came to me by way of a friend, some of the catering department may manage to translate.

Just a quick question about the log entry's
I see it says "Passengers ashore during the day" Now, does that mean that passengers HAD to go ashore while the vessel was in port, or was it optional for those that wanted to go on tours, shopping or whatever. Or could people stay aboard if they wanted to? Sorry to go off subject.

Kanbe
24th November 2015, 09:15
Whilst on a bulk carrier in 1968/9 one day the menu had 'Cheese Dreams' on it (this proved to be a deep fried cheese sandwich) and was fairly tasty. The Old man commented favourably about it with the consequence that they appeared two/three times a week thereafter therefore falling rapidly out of favour.
I would second Farmer John's comments about the food there being so much more choice on the menus at sea although not always cooked to bring out the best. Made getting home to home cooked 'Mince and Tatties' taste wonderful
Kanbe

P.Arnold
24th November 2015, 10:31
I remember doing a coastal with the Ramon de Larrinaga.
The catering staff were Chinese, with a mix of Spanish and Brit officers. When in port, the chief steward would come round the previous evening and ask who would be in for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I had just joined. At breakfast, I elected to have bacon and eggs, NO plum tomatoes. I was taken aback when a show of hands accompanied by "I'll have his". And so the items not required by one, were shared amongst the others.

No use getting older, if you can't remember what you did when you were younger.

trotterdotpom
24th November 2015, 10:38
Plum tomatoes - that reminds me, they would have been out of a tin and they used to mix them up with onions and call them "Tomato Royale" on the menu. Other's called them "Train Smash". They weren't too bad really.

John T

Steve Hogg
24th November 2015, 10:58
Surprised but pleased to see the no smoking in the saloon(considering it was 1954)Have an 1964 christmas menu some where ,from my first trip on the Automedon if I can figure out how to post it!!! (Smoke)

double acting
24th November 2015, 16:41
Lots of nice stories, none of which are in answer to my original question, and all of which are totally irrelevant to my query.
Can no one remember having such a sheet ?

MWD
28th November 2015, 15:27
Lots of nice stories, none of which are in answer to my original question, and all of which are totally irrelevant to my query.
Can no one remember having such a sheet ?

I quite understand your frustration, only a couple of references to your original query in three pages still with no result.

I joined UCL as a junior engineer in 56 and did a six week pre sea course in Southampton which was run by Les Broomfield. He gave us extensive engineering and general 'life on board' advice but never any info. regarding menu translation.

I was looking forward to dining on the mail boats but my first ship was the oldest R boat in the company out of KGV and with an oil fired galley at the forward end of the Engineers accomodation midships we
were lucky to have hot food if it blew too hard.

Good luck with your search.

MWD.

Ivor Lloyd
28th November 2015, 16:23
Sausage Rolls -- Covered Wagons
Cornish Pasties -- Sealed Orders

double acting
28th November 2015, 16:37
Hi WMD, as you say people just don't read things properly. You ask a simple question and get a lot of vague stories, none of which are relevant. I think the grey cells are deteriorating in many cases.

trotterdotpom
28th November 2015, 16:41
Hi WMD, as you say people just don't read things properly. You ask a simple question and get a lot of vague stories, none of which are relevant. I think the grey cells are deteriorating in many cases.

Would you prefer it if 50 odd people had replied "No I haven't got one"?

John T

Engine Serang
28th November 2015, 18:08
Sorry DA,
" I haven't got one" either. 48 to go.

Farmer John
28th November 2015, 22:57
Hi WMD, as you say people just don't read things properly. You ask a simple question and get a lot of vague stories, none of which are relevant. I think the grey cells are deteriorating in many cases.

Of course, I remember my first bicycle and my first woman, parts of them were red in each case. Ah, nostalgia is not as closely focussed as it should be.

spongebob
29th November 2015, 01:06
Good morning Double Acting, if you google " culinary terms" you will find enough to choke a horse and many of those may stir your memories of menus gone by.
Sure the grey cells are deteriorating in MOST cases on this site but what an enjoyable way to go.

Bob

ChasH
29th November 2015, 02:35
when i was on the Esso Appalachia the 4 to 8 had to light the galley stove oil fired you would have to bend 2 sheets of news paper together light the end lift the round plate turn on the fuel valve and put the paper in the hole, wait for it to go bang talk about sh#t yourself lucky we were coasting we would have run out of news paper i think i needed the paper more than the stove

tom roberts
29th November 2015, 11:52
By golly some of you guys have been on some exotic feeders according to the menus you have come across I mean the fancy names but I wonder if a fancy name can be given to board of trade salad I.e.onions and beetroot in vinegar accompanied by that horrible concoction named brawn and to see it when the jelly that held its bits of whatever together had melted ,oh it's memory still turns my guts,don't get me wrong not all the ships I was on we're bad feeders some were o.k. and the chicken pot pie on the Parthia made by the crew chef a mr John Cole of the memories of such a dish still make me drool, and as another member has lauded the baking of second cooks and bakers I agree with him, whenever I smell fresh baking in stores I am transported back to the aromas coming out of the galley.

Engine Serang
29th November 2015, 12:18
Beef a la mode, beef with carrots stuck into it.

Apple pie a la mode, apple pie without the carrots, me neither.

Whores handbags, Cornish Pasties, you never know what you'll find inside them.

Albatross on a stick, Monty Python doing the catering. More common than you think.

Laurie Ridyard
2nd December 2015, 12:18
#42

Agreed. Kromeskies as I knew them were as Mike describes them. Skinless sausages, perhaps, - and certainly without bacon.

My Papa used to speak with great affection of a Blue Flue shipmaster known throughout the fleet as "One-egg Turner", because of his rule in the saloon that no man was to be allowed more than one egg at a time.

Do you know ? In France, you can only buy eggs one at a time because one egg is un oeuf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtxbM7-jAD0

Laurie.

Barrie Youde
2nd December 2015, 13:13
Ho! Ho! Ho!

Tres amusant!