New HMAS Brisbane

trotterdotpom
15th December 2016, 10:51
Launched today in Adelaide - named by an old trout with a bottle of SA sparkling (can't call it Champagne anymore). See http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/adelaidebuilt-air-warfare-destroyer-brisbane-launches-today-at-asc-osborne/news-story/bfb20ffe2e9186e91769bdb5bb6daa0a

May God bless her and all who sail in her.

John T

oilkinger
15th December 2016, 15:09
I was on the previous HMAS Brisbane for its 2 tours to the VietNam conflict. It was one of 3 Charles F Adams class destroyers that we had purpose built for us in the USA in the sixties. ( I commissioned the first one - HMAS Perth ) They were constructed on budget and only a couple of weeks overdue. With very few exceptions all American warship building projects come in on time and on budget. In some cases under budget or ahead of time. Our current air warfare destroyer build program is already running 3 years overdue. ( The Yanks build these things in less than 3 years !!! ) Plus it is 1 $billion over budget and going up. So - why are the Yanks so good at this and we are so absolutely hopeless ?
You've got to say we are slow learners here in Oz. Every local warship build program, that I'm aware of, from the middle fifties on has been over budget and overdue. And we're soon to embark on a submarine build program for which I make an early prediction. They will be 10 years overdue and 80% over budget.

trotterdotpom
15th December 2016, 18:34
Just look at it as a "Job Creation Project", OK.

John T

Dartskipper
15th December 2016, 19:58
When the subs finally get launched, they will be obsolete, but that's all right because you could sell them to Canada to replace the obsolete subs they bought from the UK.(Jester)

YM-Mundrabilla
15th December 2016, 23:54
Just look at it as a "Job Creation Project", OK.

John T

Yes but it's tailor made job creation for especially South Australia to replace (haha) the closure if General Motors in Adelaide. (Ouch)

spongebob
16th December 2016, 01:29
I think that that heavy engineering manufacturing facility was established by the Federal Government years ago to facilitate the building of the original Anzac frigates. NZ grizzled at the time as a couple of the frigates were for the NZ navy so it ended up with NZ workshops fabricating parts of the superstructures as pre fabs, adding to the costs no doubt.
This SA workshop later built the Collins class Submarine hulls and their plant later became available to do work for private industry but my understanding is they were never competitive.
Perhaps it is rated as a strategic facility by the Defense Department and is allowed to wallow in its own potential importance.

Bob

trotterdotpom
16th December 2016, 06:11
Yes but it's tailor made job creation for especially South Australia to replace (haha) the closure if General Motors in Adelaide. (Ouch)

Yes, I heard that. Imagine when all the GM workers show up at the shipyard to be greeted with: "What do you want?"

John T

YM-Mundrabilla
16th December 2016, 08:22
Yes, I heard that. Imagine when all the GM workers show up at the shipyard to be greeted with: "What do you want?"

John T

They will probably get the same response at Centrelink if the Turnbull government can organise it. (Sad)

Samsette
16th December 2016, 19:07
When the subs finally get launched, they will be obsolete, but that's all right because you could sell them to Canada to replace the obsolete subs they bought from the UK.(Jester)

You mean the quietest submarines ever built. Sonar cannot reach the drydock where the West Coast subs spend most of their lives.

Hopefully they will be the last bit of crap Canada ever buys - from anybody else.

Dartskipper
16th December 2016, 19:40
You mean the quietest submarines ever built. Sonar cannot reach the drydock where the West Coast subs spend most of their lives.

Hopefully they will be the last bit of crap Canada ever buys - from anybody else.

Whenever an arms deal is done that doesn't make a lot of sense, it sometimes helps to "follow the money," as a British sports journalist often says.

(Lockheed sold lots of planes that the USAF didn't want to Countries that didn't need them.)

spongebob
16th December 2016, 21:21
The GM assembly line workers would not have a clue about pressure vessel fabrication and boilermaking trades needed to build submarines.

Bob

oilkinger
19th December 2016, 14:24
Ever arrived at a pub to find you're too late for the happy hour ? That's the situation Australia finds itself in by embarking on multi-billion dollar conventional submarine building program. Its like we are still building Mustang P-51's when the rest of the world is zipping around in F-86 Sabre jets.
Recent technology has rendered conventional subs all but obsolete.
UUV's ( Unmanned Undersea Vehicles ) & Anti-Submarine Continuous Trail Unmanned Vessels, there are several types on the go, are now undergoing sea trials or final design. They are robotic, satellite-guided, dirt cheap compared to sub cost ( about $20 million versus about $4 billion ) and can stay at sea for months. Some are hunter/killer designs and others are just hunters that call in the killers when they detect a sub. They are packed with super sensitive detection equipment particularly focused on conventional, so-called "silent" submarines. These UUV's etc, initially in hundreds and then in thousands, are just going to cruise the seas sniffing out subs.
These new sub killers are going to be deployed long before our first SWBIO is launched. ( Submarine With Built In Obsolescence )
Sending our sailors out in these jalopies reminds one of the Battle Of Rorke's Drift. The poor old Zulus were very brave but technology deprived.
There is plenty of info on these new sub killers on the web.

Dartskipper
19th December 2016, 20:11
Seems the Chinese have all ready captured an American one.

YM-Mundrabilla
19th December 2016, 23:17
The GM assembly line workers would not have a clue about pressure vessel fabrication and boilermaking trades needed to build submarines.

Bob

Agree of course, but their cars have been far more successful than the submarines produced by their brethren on the other side of Adelaide.
Do we never learn and do something properly (or not at all) for the overall, long term, benefit of the country rather than buying a few votes at astronomical cost. How much does a standard US built nuclear sub cost and how long do they take to build. A hell of a lot less than the obsolete subs that our Prime Minister is signing up for today for purely political (vote buying) reasons I suspect.
(Sad)

spongebob
20th December 2016, 04:19
OilK and YM, you are right on the button . While I lived in Brjsbane 2004 to 2011 there was constant reference to these current Collins class subs, their performance, mechanical and electrical troubles and above all their manning difficultes. At one stage it was admitted by the RAN that they would have difficulty keeping more than one submarine in active commission and lack of crew willingness to serve on these vessels was a pertinent point.
I imagine that the old WW2 attitudes of devotion to duty and the extra Quid a day offered to submariners cuts no ice these days and it needs special people and attractive conditions to secure reliable crews for the future.
No chance of that if the rest of the world is spelling out that diesel powered subs are old hat and automation takes control.
My personal associations with the RNZN were very very junior as a dockyard apprentice but I did devour as much knowledge as possible about their ships and kept in touch via various means ever since and over the years there has been so many instances where the Naval experts have made recommendations to the government only to have them overridden by political expediency and folly. Similar indiscretion exits via the army and ajirforce at times and Australia's situation seems to be in a similar vein .
If we ruled the world!!

Bob

oilkinger
20th December 2016, 13:52
Yes Spongebob - our politicians should be charged with criminal neglect by proceeding with these obsolete submarines and, when they are easily sunk with the consequent loss of life, manslaughter.
As you say, the Collins class has crewing problems because being a submariner is not attractive to modern day sailors. And its a no-brainer why the rest of the world is concentrating on unmanned military equipment. Robots, drones, unmanned undersea vehicles etc. Its because trying to get crews to man this equipment will be nigh on impossible. The modern tech-savvy sailor knows to keep well away from outmoded equipment that gives him nil chance of survival in a conflict.