Derek Bailey. RIP One year. RIP Elders of Elders with him?

Graham the pipe
2nd February 2019, 20:20
The Newsletter WAS Derek, his 'baby' and it died with him.

There are many, presently unconnected, 'links' to ED's history but no real 'one' source of cross chat between us survivors of a bygone, never to return age of shipping.

A central forum is what is needed, where this site, Facebook and all others collate to one, central retrieval source.

My computer skills are of deck boy capability but I know there are EOE, 'Elders Out There', whose expertise, hopefully, could come up with, at the very least, some ideas.

1956 was the conception of 'The Box', it changed the world, literally. 1935 was the conception and birth of 'Our Derek'. I know that hand written letters and all publications are moving towards obsolescence in this digital age, so how's about a 2019 Digital Berth/birth for DB?

Roger Turner
3rd February 2019, 21:30
The Newsletter WAS Derek, his 'baby' and it died with him.

There are many, presently unconnected, 'links' to ED's history but no real 'one' source of cross chat between us survivors of a bygone, never to return age of shipping.

A central forum is what is needed, where this site, Facebook and all others collate to one, central retrieval source.

My computer skills are of deck boy capability but I know there are EOE, 'Elders Out There', whose expertise, hopefully, could come up with, at the very least, some ideas

1956 was the conception of 'The Box', it changed the world, literally. 1935 was the conception and birth of 'Our Derek'. I know that hand written letters and all publications are moving towards obsolescence in this digital age, so how's about a 2019 Digital Berth/birth for DB?
Hi GTP,
I`m right there with you, missing EofE like crazy, you probably noticed I tried recently to get a bit going on Elder Dempster Lines of Liverpool on Facebook with a little story Derek had printed a few years ago about my adventures with a moth eaten parrot -hoped to get some follow up life, the moderators approved but I didn`t seem to spark anything. Anyway I don`t think the Facebook format lends itself to chat
I have something left with Derek that he was about to print and if anybody comes forward to start "The Spirit of Derek at E of E" I would dig it out.
Warmest wishes Roger

Graham the pipe
4th February 2019, 14:37
A very big 'Thank You Roger' and it comes as no surprise to see you are the first and hopefully not the last to respond to my 'thoughts'.

We both know that there are, probably, hundreds ~ I doubt thousands ~ of ex ED's sea going staff 'out there'. However, I think the main 'key' to any form of continuation, along the lines of Derek's newsletter, is to differentiate twixt the actual 'Elders' and for the sake of separation the 'Dempsters'.

I think we can discount any immediate post war/'40's names such as MacManus who crossed the bar last year too; this leaves us with the predominantly '50s and '60s crowd, as the 'Elders' making the '70s and 80s ~ 'til RIP EDs date ~ the 'Dempsters'.

This is purely a thought rather than a proposal but I do feel this would immediately make the 'reader' aware as to if there was a possibility of having sailed, at some time, together.

Enough rambles Smith! Over and out.

Not before a 'kindest to you, yours and Trumpland.

GGG

Rogerfrench
4th February 2019, 18:13
I don't think we need another forum, because I think this one works quite well already.
Maybe a post on Facebook telling people about it?

appbob
4th February 2019, 18:38
Hello, Graham and Roger, You have probably seen mycomments from time to time most recently the sad sight of the Sansu and the Sangara at preston awaiting demolition. Two regrets of my ED service, from 1950/60 was that l/My camara gave good results but nothing like the almost effortless results of today. I had a 35mm and one would end up with many photo's but the subject would be a dot on the horizon and 2/ Not a single momento of the ships I sailed on. It was not easy to filch the ships bell or the shipyard plate. All the smaller items were carefully put away in the office for the next voyage.
We have our memories however and several still make me shudder. On the Queens Coronation I was Supernumery on the mv Martagon, Kaye & Son. We were at sea and dress with bunting. The Sparks and I climbed the foremas and took photo's looking down on the ship. I spent my 21st birthday on the Zini and caught a States run. The party was held next to my cabin in a rest room. I seem to remember somebody reciting many verses, with chorus, of Eskino Nell. I also seem to rember an engineer trying to lift himslf of the deck with his feet in two buckets -could it have been Charlie Duggan?.
In 1956 I got married and transferred to the Coast Staff. I spent most of my two tours as Ferry Manager in Calabar, Eket, Oron and the dinky Itu. Calabar was a good station and we enjoyed life there. I finished as export Manager in Apapa. This was similar to Purser duties in that I signed all the Bills of Lading for goods shipped out by Elders. All this came to an end with Mascmillans wind of change speech. I didone more trip on the Owerri, to keep away from National Service which was still going in 1960 Peter Boggan was the full Purser and we had a fairly un eventful trip apart from, Brian had met up with a local (we where in Naples or Genoa) who offered him a good rate for sterling. We went ashore, did the deal, and went to the nearest bar to have a beer. Brian paid with the lira. The barman took one look and roared with laughter. Were do you get the Mussolini money. We slunk out, Not life threatening fortunately.
Some years after I came ashore I heard of the EPC which met at a Night Club in Cumberland Street, near Exchange station in Liverpool. All the old faces where there and very many happy gatherings were there over the years. Freddy Griffiths took over the newsletter and like all good things the EPC folded, like so many clubs and societies. Dwindling numbers and inability to do the admin etc.
I did attend a few of the E of E gatherings, although by this time I was living out of Merseyside and ultimately in Dorset. The lunches were good get togethers
and I met up again the Alan Dean, the model maker, and Jim Cowden, both of whom I sailed with. Arthur Day also springs to mind. I said hello to Derek but I didn't know him well. I did appreciate the work he put in though.
Apart from the pages of SN I am only in touch with one ex Purser, Ben Armishaw. We have kept in touch since 1956. Now by phone every couple of weeks - mainly to see who is the last man standing. (He is 88 and I am 85)
I hope this stirs the ED waters, I will look though my photo's and perhaps list a few more names to help. Cheers Bob Appleton

Graham the pipe
4th February 2019, 19:41
Hello, Graham and Roger, You have probably seen mycomments from time to time most recently the sad sight of the Sansu and the Sangara at preston awaiting demolition. Two regrets of my ED service, from 1950/60 was that l/My camara gave good results but nothing like the almost effortless results of today. I had a 35mm and one would end up with many photo's but the subject would be a dot on the horizon and 2/ Not a single momento of the ships I sailed on. It was not easy to filch the ships bell or the shipyard plate. All the smaller items were carefully put away in the office for the next voyage.
We have our memories however and several still make me shudder. On the Queens Coronation I was Supernumery on the mv Martagon, Kaye & Son. We were at sea and dress with bunting. The Sparks and I climbed the foremas and took photo's looking down on the ship. I spent my 21st birthday on the Zini and caught a States run. The party was held next to my cabin in a rest room. I seem to remember somebody reciting many verses, with chorus, of Eskino Nell. I also seem to rember an engineer trying to lift himslf of the deck with his feet in two buckets -could it have been Charlie Duggan?.
In 1956 I got married and transferred to the Coast Staff. I spent most of my two tours as Ferry Manager in Calabar, Eket, Oron and the dinky Itu. Calabar was a good station and we enjoyed life there. I finished as export Manager in Apapa. This was similar to Purser duties in that I signed all the Bills of Lading for goods shipped out by Elders. All this came to an end with Mascmillans wind of change speech. I didone more trip on the Owerri, to keep away from National Service which was still going in 1960 Peter Boggan was the full Purser and we had a fairly un eventful trip apart from, Brian had met up with a local (we where in Naples or Genoa) who offered him a good rate for sterling. We went ashore, did the deal, and went to the nearest bar to have a beer. Brian paid with the lira. The barman took one look and roared with laughter. Were do you get the Mussolini money. We slunk out, Not life threatening fortunately.
Some years after I came ashore I heard of the EPC which met at a Night Club in Cumberland Street, near Exchange station in Liverpool. All the old faces where there and very many happy gatherings were there over the years. Freddy Griffiths took over the newsletter and like all good things the EPC folded, like so many clubs and societies. Dwindling numbers and inability to do the admin etc.
I did attend a few of the E of E gatherings, although by this time I was living out of Merseyside and ultimately in Dorset. The lunches were good get togethers
and I met up again the Alan Dean, the model maker, and Jim Cowden, both of whom I sailed with. Arthur Day also springs to mind. I said hello to Derek but I didn't know him well. I did appreciate the work he put in though.
Apart from the pages of SN I am only in touch with one ex Purser, Ben Armishaw. We have kept in touch since 1956. Now by phone every couple of weeks - mainly to see who is the last man standing. (He is 88 and I am 85)
I hope this stirs the ED waters, I will look though my photo's and perhaps list a few more names to help. Cheers Bob Appleton

Hi Bob.

I really appreciate your far from brief but close to perfect example of the very point I was endeavouring to make, namely we're all 'out there', somewhere but let's 'chat', exchange memories, 'dig out' those old forgotten photos even if they're not top quality.

A name 'pops up' and you are instantly transported back in time however long ~ Brian Boggan Purser on an Onitsha State's trip, Mike Raba Writer ~ I've just gone back 61 years!

I'm still in touch with John Edge and 'Mike' Andrew Salt. Mike Raba too until his bar crossing, all 'your department' Bob.

Can I leave it to your good self and others to sew some new threads here on OUR part of this site? That will stop this section being yours truly shouting into the abyss with no response ~ check recent threads and you'll see what I mean. Many times Derek B said to me "How can I hope to put a newsletter together if no one contributes"? Do we want this SN, ED to cease for the same reason?

Cheers, for now, 'speak soon' and again, thanks.

GGG

Graham the pipe
4th February 2019, 19:52
I don't think we need another forum, because I think this one works quite well already.
Maybe a post on Facebook telling people about it?

Hi Roger.

I'll leave you to 'choose' the words and make that Facebook posting.

I agree with you, totally, this SN Forum can and does work not quite but very well. However, like the old 'table chat', someone has to say something first before there can be any conversation, agree?

Kindest to you and yours and you never did answer my Facebook question "Are you still in touch with 'Archie' Hartwell"?

GGG

Rogerfrench
4th February 2019, 20:11
Hi Roger.

I'll leave you to 'choose' the words and make that Facebook posting.

I agree with you, totally, this SN Forum can and does work not quite but very well. However, like the old 'table chat', someone has to say something first before there can be any conversation, agree?

Kindest to you and yours and you never did answer my Facebook question "Are you still in touch with 'Archie' Hartwell"?

GGG

OK, I'll try to think of something.
Many apologies for my non-reply, I'm afraid I missed the question! Anyway, sadly no, I've lost touch with Archie.

Graham the pipe
4th February 2019, 20:21
OK, I'll try to think of something.
Many apologies for my non-reply, I'm afraid I missed the question! Anyway, sadly no, I've lost touch with Archie.

Hi Roger.

Appreciate your prompt response. Await your topic with eager anticipation. I'll see if I can do some digging, re Arch and keep you posted.

Kindest.

GGG

Roger Turner
6th February 2019, 11:35
Hi Bob Appleton, nice to see you in print again, I have a feeling we corresponded on emails two or three computers ago..i.e whenever a member of my family "updates" me with a new computer and now lap top, not all previous data gets carried forward.
I second GGG`s (akaGTP) paen of praise for your initial contribution to our soirie (spelling ? anyway posh chat club) you at least echoed the sort of thing I had in mind, mutual experiences of "moments" (I for one can`t remember everything or even much of the past) among what we used to term at sea as "ships that passed in the night" often we made apparently deep friendships one trip and then often we would never see or even hear of them again
So if I think of my 9/10 year stint in Elders as one single trip then there are numerous memories of people and events that passed in the night.
Derek`s finding me on Ship`s nostalgia and introducing me to E of E opened a door that I thought was long closed, I re-entered gingerly, thinking I would have to throw my hat into the ring (rat deserting a sinking ship and all that), but I instead I felt welcomed with open arms and encouraged as a full member of the Elder`s race to contribute my memories and impressions.
So yes! please harken to Graham, The other Roger and now Bob to "come and join us" (why should the sally army have all the good tunes?) join this festival of fun and good humour and let us know all what you got up to and even what you are doing now

Graham the pipe
6th February 2019, 14:30
Hi Bob Appleton, nice to see you in print again, I have a feeling we corresponded on emails two or three computers ago..i.e whenever a member of my family "updates" me with a new computer and now lap top, not all previous data gets carried forward.
I second GGG`s (akaGTP) paen of praise for your initial contribution to our soirie (spelling ? anyway posh chat club) you at least echoed the sort of thing I had in mind, mutual experiences of "moments" (I for one can`t remember everything or even much of the past) among what we used to term at sea as "ships that passed in the night" often we made apparently deep friendships one trip and then often we would never see or even hear of them again
So if I think of my 9/10 year stint in Elders as one single trip then there are numerous memories of people and events that passed in the night.
Derek`s finding me on Ship`s nostalgia and introducing me to E of E opened a door that I thought was long closed, I re-entered gingerly, thinking I would have to throw my hat into the ring (rat deserting a sinking ship and all that), but I instead I felt welcomed with open arms and encouraged as a full member of the Elder`s race to contribute my memories and impressions.
So yes! please harken to Graham, The other Roger and now Bob to "come and join us" (why should the sally army have all the good tunes?) join this festival of fun and good humour and let us know all what you got up to and even what you are doing now

Hi Roger ~ and now 'fellow contributors' to this thread ~ dare I say it but do I see at long, long last, a new breath of good old salty saliva splattering sea stories on the E of E/SN horizon?

Hope that's the case, then my 'labours' have not been in (bloody ?) vain and I can do a GGGEXIT, as a True Brit, come WHAT May?

gordonarfur
8th February 2019, 02:52
In my time we always spoke about Elder Dempsters peanut boats presumably because they lugged them back from West Africa? and did,nt anyone on this post ever go into the Legs of Man pub near Lime Street station? great upstairs bar with a cracking little barmaid to drool over.

Graham the pipe
9th February 2019, 09:49
In my time we always spoke about Elder Dempsters peanut boats presumably because they lugged them back from West Africa? and did,nt anyone on this post ever go into the Legs of Man pub near Lime Street station? great upstairs bar with a cracking little barmaid to drool over.

Not quite sure what to make of your pseudonym, Gordon, as in the 'Gay Ones' or Arfur as in 'Daley'? Whichever, whatever, a breezy, suvvern, good morning to you 'Young Man' and DON'T worry, no 'connection' to my *** reference for members of the Gordon Clan!

Your Scouseland references ring vague bells and I think the toilet fittings were 'Twyford' if I remember correctly?

Mecca café, India Buildings Water Street for meeting females after the 7 th floor, pre or post voyage meetings.

Better 'fast forward' 50 ~ 60 years. Enjoy your weekend GordArf ~ sounds as if 'Bob' should precede.

Kindest to you and yours.

GGG

purserjuk
9th February 2019, 10:04
Hi Graham,
We sailed together on "Cargill" when I was Writer with "Paddy" Gallagher. Re peanut boats I always heard ED's ships referred to as "The Monkey Boats". I'm now 83 and still remember my time with ED's was a happy time. I sailed on 9 ED, 6 Henderson and 3 chartered ships during that time. I was on one of Henderson's (Bhamo) for 4 consecutive voyages.
John Powell

Graham the pipe
9th February 2019, 14:38
Hi Graham,
We sailed together on "Cargill" when I was Writer with "Paddy" Gallagher. Re peanut boats I always heard ED's ships referred to as "The Monkey Boats". I'm now 83 and still remember my time with ED's was a happy time. I sailed on 9 ED, 6 Henderson and 3 chartered ships during that time. I was on one of Henderson's (Bhamo) for 4 consecutive voyages.
John Powell

Hi John.

What a memory! Don't say you actually remember me? That voyage, for me, was 28th 'Aug 59 ~ 17th Nov '59. Sixty years ago this year. That's not my 'memory', it's looking on the back of my indentures. I'll be 79 next month so you are very much my 'senior' even though my great grandson was two last month.

Came ashore to do Masters in '66, met the wife of now 50+ years and the rest, as they say, is 'history'.

Cheers, for now.

GGG

csturnbull
6th March 2019, 14:23
The Newsletter WAS Derek, his 'baby' and it died with him.

There are many, presently unconnected, 'links' to ED's history but no real 'one' source of cross chat between us survivors of a bygone, never to return age of shipping.

A central forum is what is needed, where this site, Facebook and all others collate to one, central retrieval source.

My computer skills are of deck boy capability but I know there are EOE, 'Elders Out There', whose expertise, hopefully, could come up with, at the very least, some ideas.

1956 was the conception of 'The Box', it changed the world, literally. 1935 was the conception and birth of 'Our Derek'. I know that hand written letters and all publications are moving towards obsolescence in this digital age, so how's about a 2019 Digital Berth/birth for DB?
Great bloke! The mag was really great and I do miss it, he really put his heart and soul into it. Lost a few ED mates myself in the last few years.
Rod Anderton Snr 4th Aureol. Stan Urion Int 2nd Aureol. Charlie Wright Cadet Aureol and now Bill Nelson Snr 2nd not too good in Mariner's Park, and that's just Aureol engineers. I suppose we are all getting long in the tooth so it is expected but never easy to accept. Stan Urion was a special guy to me, taught me lots and we were fortunate to be able to keep in touch until his demise. I wish I could find some more mates off the cargo vessels.
Happy days even though the work was hard on the old Doxfords!
Cheers
Cliff Turnbull

Ex StevieClarkes
6th March 2019, 17:04
I have been following this thread with interest, my computer skills are not of the best but I have also caught up with the Elder Dempster Lines of Liverpool logged in as Bert Lawton, now there is a surprise. The Stevie Clarkes log in came from a couple of trips I did as 2/0 when I was up for my second mates ticket and got 2 months sea time for failing aurals.
I joined the Sobo in Herculaneum dock as apprentice in 1953 and left as Master when I handed the Memnon to the Chinese in Falmouth in 1989. That was all of us out of a job except for a few that clung on in Loch Striven. During that time I must have sailed with most of you who post on the two sites but my memory being what it is, names do not come easily.
I was at the last E of E's lunch and am pleased that I can now keep up with some who I sailed with. At present I am favouring E.D's Lines of Liverpool. On this site I think I must just of p'd off Palm Line chaps by saying they don't know their way round the creeks.
Anyway, enough of this rambling, I am very pleased to meet you all anywhere.

Ex StevieClarkes
6th March 2019, 17:23
In my time we always spoke about Elder Dempsters peanut boats presumably because they lugged them back from West Africa? and did,nt anyone on this post ever go into the Legs of Man pub near Lime Street station? great upstairs bar with a cracking little barmaid to drool over.

The Legs of Man was always the last port of call before the Aureol sailed. The barmaid I remember was anything but small and had been a stewardess on the Aureol, we got preferential treatment. I can remember standing at the upstairs window and watching Queen Elizabeth's motorcade progress down Lime Street.

Graham the pipe
6th March 2019, 19:29
Thank you two gentlemen for your today's postings. The more names that 'surface' the greater chance we have of keeping us all 'afloat', particularly those ~ in the kindest possible way ~ now not too worried whether the rescue ship, DB's Es of Es, has arrived in time or not.

The answer is it has, welcome aboard, we have a long, eventful voyage ahead with plenty of smoke room, catch up chat before picking up that bar pilot.

Cheers!

GGG

Rogerfrench
7th March 2019, 11:58
So how many here are going to the ED reunion in the Liner Hotel, Liverpool, on 25th September?
I will be making the trip from Texas, with my ex-ED wife of 55 years, for another trip down memory lane.

Ex StevieClarkes
7th March 2019, 13:40
I must have missed the announcement of a reunion. Where was it promulgated?

Graham the pipe
7th March 2019, 16:39
Well said and well done Roger on your forthcoming trip over the pond to the ED reunion.

Sadly ~ from my point of view ~ it's a 'no no' for health reasons but PLEASE ensure DB gets a lot more than a casual 'mention in passing'.

May I suggest Roger that you, not me, open a new 'thread' on here, the ED section, giving full details so that ALL Elders are aware and not 'in the dark' like our friend Ex StevieClarkes?

Rogerfrench
8th March 2019, 19:11
It's being organised byh some ex-Fourah Bay chaps. They've held events in prior years, for FB people only, but are now expanding it to any ex-ED people.
I think it was mentioned on Facebook .
I won't start a separate thread, I suspect any ex-ED folk here will read this anyway. But I will email an organiser to see if there's space, and if Bert is interested, get him an invitation.

csturnbull
10th March 2019, 21:21
Thank you two gentlemen for your today's postings. The more names that 'surface' the greater chance we have of keeping us all 'afloat', particularly those ~ in the kindest possible way ~ now not too worried whether the rescue ship, DB's Es of Es, has arrived in time or not.

The answer is it has, welcome aboard, we have a long, eventful voyage ahead with plenty of smoke room, catch up chat before picking up that bar pilot.

Cheers!

GGG

Anyone remember me?? Aureol, Patani, Oti, Sulima. Eboe all in the sixties. Anyone know what happened to 2nd Engineer big Jim Murphy and Chief Steward Norman Fowler(Fowler The Feeder)? I went ashore with the latter once and it was a "near death experience" I will never forget!!!
Happy days.
Cheers
Cliff Turnbull