The Denholm MacDonald Masters

John Cassels
15th April 2012, 11:48
Here's a blast from the past for us old Denholm guys.

Sailed with all of them except A.J.

Anyone remember "Black Duncan "?.

Orcadian
15th April 2012, 14:12
I remember Black Duncan I sailed with him on my first trip to sea on the Stirling Bridge way back in 1973. I could never understand why he always wore long sleeved shirts until I saw the tattoos on his arms one day. He always took sights with an old micrometer sextant. As far as I know her retired a couple of trips later. I found him strict but fair.

Erimus
15th April 2012, 14:47
Orcadian......who was the fellow Orcadian, little fellow, who had the Gleddoch and perhaps Wellpark as well during the 60's??.............once managed to get him one of your local newspapers sent out when he was waiting in Tees Bay and was well chuffed..

geoff

randcmackenzie
15th April 2012, 15:26
Alfie Cromarty.

And when on MacDonald's don't forget Black Mac - wasn't he MacDonald too.

Last heard of on the big Burmah boats.

randcmackenzie
15th April 2012, 15:29
Hector was Hector Walter, not the Walker shown in the magazine.

I only ever sailed with Hector (Glenpark, Mountpark) and Norman Angus (various Seatrain.)

Erimus
15th April 2012, 18:13
Alfie Cromarty.

And when on MacDonald's don't forget Black Mac - wasn't he MacDonald too.

Last heard of on the big Burmah boats.



Thanks for Captain Cromarty...........very dry humour but we got on well after the newspaper incident...is the paper called The Orcadian too??

geoff

randcmackenzie
15th April 2012, 21:42
Hello Erimus.

I'm afraid I can't tell you the name of the newspaper.

I believe Alfie was a Shetland? pony breeder of some renown.

B/R

randcmackenzie
15th April 2012, 21:49
Anybody know how many are still alive?

I know Norman Angus died a few years ago, and from this forum we recently learned of the passing of AJ.

The Thomas listed was I think actually T.D., who would be a very old man indeed today, Black Duncan and Dugald I knew little about.

Hector could still be alive though, was he not from the Costa Clyde somewhere?

B/R.

Erimus
15th April 2012, 22:13
Hello Erimus.

I'm afraid I can't tell you the name of the newspaper.

I believe Alfie was a Shetland? pony breeder of some renown.

B/R

Thanks amigo............I know this is off thread but the same people, ex Denholm, will be reading it..........I do remember him having a heated debate about 'the office' with Capt.Warwick Furneaux (another of our regulars and favourites) and they were not being very complimentary............

geoff

Orcadian
15th April 2012, 22:59
The Alfie Cromarty was from Orkney and I believe his wife was involved in the breeding of horses possibly Shetland Ponies. The local paper is the Orcadian. Some of his descendants still breed horses on South Ronaldsay in Orkney. I believe that Capt Cromarty only had one eye but I never knew the man only heard of him. He passed away about 73/74 as far as I know.

John Cassels
16th April 2012, 06:48
Was Hector not from the Paisley area ?. Sailed with him on the Trollpark
until he was relieved by Bill Tawse.
Sailed with Norman Angus many times.

Did Capt.Cant also only have one eye ?.

There were quite a few "regular "ore carrier masters that Erimus would
recognise.

Tom S
16th April 2012, 07:28
Was Hector not from the Paisley area ?. Sailed with him on the Trollpark
until he was relieved by Bill Tawse.
Sailed with Norman Angus many times.

Did Capt.Cant also only have one eye ?.

There were quite a few "regular "ore carrier masters that Erimus would
recognise.
John
I think Hector stayed in Milngavie? I sailed with him as Mate on the Troll Park one of the things i do remember about him was the first thing he did when he went on leave was to go off in his caravan that was his hobby
Tom

Erimus
16th April 2012, 09:23
Was Hector not from the Paisley area ?. Sailed with him on the Trollpark
until he was relieved by Bill Tawse.
Sailed with Norman Angus many times.

Did Capt.Cant also only have one eye ?.

There were quite a few "regular "ore carrier masters that Erimus would
recognise.

Indeed that is why I am so glad I found this site!
'My' Denholm Fleet was Dunadd,Dunkyle (named after Denis Kyle the BISCO MD),Duncraig (named after the Craigs of Colvilles), Sir Andrew Duncan (who served the 'National' government during the war and was heavily involved with the Iron & Steel Bill post-war..then returned to Iron & Steel Federation),
The small Port Talbot vessels in sevice at same time were...
Arisaig,Ormsary,Wellpark,Gleddoch,the infamous Morar, Naess Trader then the slightly larger Crinan & Craigallian......

Happy Days.......

geoff

John Cassels
16th April 2012, 10:47
Some names to remember;

Bert Buckley, W C Taylor,George MacIntosh,Ginger Lomax,Archie Allan,
to name just a few.

And yes tom , Do indeed remember Hector and his caravan.

John Cassels
16th April 2012, 10:50
Geoff , don't forget the Clarkavon and Clarkeden.

Erimus
16th April 2012, 11:46
Geoff , don't forget the Clarkavon and Clarkeden.

I hadn't.....I've got 'em on my list John but for some reason in the 60's they didn't come under the same people in DSM.......perhaps still a Clarkson hangover???.dunno.........

rgds

geoff

John Cassels
16th April 2012, 16:17
I hadn't.....I've got 'em on my list John but for some reason in the 60's they didn't come under the same people in DSM.......perhaps still a Clarkson hangover???.dunno.........

rgds

geoff

Joined the Clarkeden 1st.trip 2nd.mate at Irlam July 1969. As a
lowly 2nd.mate would not have been to concerned which ship group
she came under.

Masters were Archie Allan followed by Ian Graham.

Malky Glaister
16th April 2012, 17:13
Famously a saying by himself " I am Captain Cant, that's spelt with an a"

Amusing.

I recall Cap Lomax being taken ashore from Dunadd on a stretcher 1969, at the General Terminus, Glasgow. I think Jim Rhodes took over.

I sailed on the Bibi with capt Allan, he had a nickname, granny. He was an old Old man at the time 1968.

Regards

Malky

randcmackenzie
16th April 2012, 22:44
Yes, that's correct, Alfie Cromarty only had one eye, hence the apochryphal tale:

He used to leave his glass eye on the chartroom table, and depart below with the immortal words ' I'll be keeping an eye on you'.

So far as I ever heard, all the other Denholm masters were possessed of both eyes.

Interesting to hear where the Dun boat names came from - I thought they were named after remote Scottish outposts of some kind.

Another couple of masters I sailed with were Jim Nicol (Crinan) and Terry Taylor (Dunadd).

In later life I was Master on Scandia Team when we brought a full cargo of coking coal from Port Kembla (New South Wales) to Port Talbot (Old South Wales), then Friendly Carrier with ore from Port Cartier to Port Talbot, and somewhat earlier, the famous MUIRFIELD from Saldanha Bay to the Tees.

The Port Talbot in question bore no resemblance to the historic Margam Wharf, by that time in total disrepair.

B/R.

Erimus
17th April 2012, 08:17
Yes, that's correct, Alfie Cromarty only had one eye, hence the apochryphal tale:

He used to leave his glass eye on the chartroom table, and depart below with the immortal words ' I'll be keeping an eye on you'.

So far as I ever heard, all the other Denholm masters were possessed of both eyes.

Interesting to hear where the Dun boat names came from - I thought they were named after remote Scottish outposts of some kind.

Another couple of masters I sailed with were Jim Nicol (Crinan) and Terry Taylor (Dunadd).

In later life I was Master on Scandia Team when we brought a full cargo of coking coal from Port Kembla (New South Wales) to Port Talbot (Old South Wales), then Friendly Carrier with ore from Port Cartier to Port Talbot, and somewhat earlier, the famous MUIRFIELD from Saldanha Bay to the Tees.

The Port Talbot in question bore no resemblance to the historic Margam Wharf, by that time in total disrepair.

B/R.

I remember Terry Taylor...another friendly one was Capt. Kidd.....

When the Muirfield joined the fleet ( ex Tibetan I seem to remember), our Marine Super, Capt. Dan Cameron has something to do with the naming as it was supposed to be the same length as one of the holes on the Muirfield Course......So the great and the good arranged a grand Luncheon in London for the heirarchy from Muirfield and presentations were made....I think we had a painting done of the vessel....and we got a photo of the course in return!..........no invitations to play which was a great disappointment to Inverness born golfer Dan!

geoff

NZSCOTTY
17th April 2012, 08:21
hey John I here the violins playing for "Denholm Nostalgia"!!!!!!!!!!!!

John Cassels
17th April 2012, 08:31
hey John I here the violins playing for "Denholm Nostalgia"!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's age John , simply old age slowly creeping up on me.

Malky Glaister
17th April 2012, 20:23
Muirfield, no violins! March of the damned I would have thought.

Remember the anchor chain knot!

regards

Malky

Erimus
17th April 2012, 21:00
Muirfield, no violins! March of the damned I would have thought.

Remember the anchor chain knot!

regards

Malky

No sitting on the fence for you then Malky!

rgds

geoff

Varley
18th April 2012, 00:21
Muirfield, no violins! March of the damned I would have thought.

Remember the anchor chain knot!

regards

Malky

I was going to mention that. What about de-scaling the holds in DD - more economic to cut the bottom and let it fall out that use mucking winches (rather before my office time but Dick Swindall had it as a favourite topic).

Malky Glaister
18th April 2012, 03:51
I just missed Muirfield. Lucky I suppose I went to the Louisiana instead!!

Never too keen on those older OBO's.

I sit on fences now and then but just to watch the world go by!!

regards

Malky

teb
19th April 2012, 05:34
Geoff- It's some time since I left Denholms and SMD, memories do play tricks, but I'm prett sure "Clarkavon" Clarkeden" along with other Clarkson ships were in my SMD- that would have been around the late 50's- early 60's- Regards Teb

Erimus
19th April 2012, 09:03
Geoff- It's some time since I left Denholms and SMD, memories do play tricks, but I'm prett sure "Clarkavon" Clarkeden" along with other Clarkson ships were in my SMD- that would have been around the late 50's- early 60's- Regards Teb

Like you mind gets slower,I first met up with them from an agency point of view in 1960.........then from a voyage planning,in London, from 1964 but they were not initially part of my own operation..I trained on the ultra-small stuff 1000-5000 tonners!..........so probably about 1966 first time I 'handled' them and then not directly to the SMD........so you could be right.

geoff

Calsatch
19th April 2012, 09:54
Black Mac
Last seen as a pilot in Sirri,there were two pilots named Macdonald who joined together and if they thought you knew black Mac, he'd go to the focs'le and the other one came to the bridge! He relieved me on day before Christmas eve in Dampier.. Christmas Day in London Airport!
Happy days
C

John Cassels
19th April 2012, 14:02
Who is this black Mac ?, can't be Black Duncan.

alex clark
20th April 2012, 17:18
Here's a blast from the past for us old Denholm guys.

Sailed with all of them except A.J.

Anyone remember "Black Duncan "?.

Yes.bit of an old s-d sailed with him in the "NAESS TRADER" 1971.Made sure the bar shut on time,but still and all good ships,good times.A.Clark

Calsatch
26th April 2012, 19:54
Who was it put the cayenne pepper in his curry, was it you, he did like a hot curry but that day it was just too much!

John Cassels
27th April 2012, 08:37
Seem to remember way back in the '60's , hearing a rumour that someone
put silver dip in Sandy Cant's soup.' Was on one of the ore carriers.

Dan.n
29th April 2012, 12:15
Never heard that rumour or anybody calling him "Sandy"
Dan

rod holroyd
10th May 2012, 14:43
hi DIAMOND D GUYS
ROD EX CRINAN JULY 63 BACK ON LINE
NICE TO SEE JC N A FEW MORE AROUND YET

Gulpers
10th May 2012, 19:21
Rod,

On behalf of the SN Moderating Team, a warm welcome aboard from the Isle of Anglesey - you will thoroughly enjoy the SN experience!
You will certainly spark many happy memories when you explore our threads and, since there are plenty of us ex-Denholm members, you have a good chance of re-establishing contact with old shipmates.
I see you have been a member for some time and now that you have taken the plunge, keep posting.
All the best! (Thumb)

rad
12th June 2012, 11:06
Alfie Cromarty.

And when on MacDonald's don't forget Black Mac - wasn't he MacDonald too.

Last heard of on the big Burmah boats.

I sailed with Capt Cromarty on the Dunadd in 1959,he used to take the ship up around the cromarty Isles on the way to Narvic for iron ore,I also remember Capt R Lloyd Edwards,and Capt Cant was on the Clarkeden in 1960 Regards to all, Rad

Ron Stringer
12th June 2012, 12:07
I sailed with Capt Cromarty on the Dunadd in 1959,he used to take the ship up around the cromarty Isles on the way to Narvic for iron ore,

Forgive my ignorance but where/what are the Cromarty Isles? I know where Cromarty is, and the Cromarty Firth but can't recollect seeing any islands while I was there, nor when I have been on ships sailing around that part of the coast. Mind you it was some decades ago!

Malky Glaister
12th June 2012, 12:27
From what I recall, the ore carriers were often taken through the Minches on the way from Britains west coast on to the Pentland firth before heading to one of several Scandanavian ore ports.

Not too certain that this passage was approved by the office though!

Dunadd was but 4 years old in 1959 as I remember

regards

Malky

Erimus
12th June 2012, 13:23
From what I recall, the ore carriers were often taken through the Minches on the way from Britains west coast on to the Pentland firth before heading to one of several Scandanavian ore ports.

Not too certain that this passage was approved by the office though!

Dunadd was but 4 years old in 1959 as I remember

regards

Malky

Not Denholms but another Scots Owner..Currie Line with the Gothland,she was a plodder and smaller than the rest of the 20/30000dwt ships at about 22000 tonnes...............One day the office got a phone call to say she was going through the Pentlands at something like 17/18 knots.........faster than she had ever done anywhere else.
The only slower ship was our old friend the gtv Morar!

geoff

Erimus
12th June 2012, 13:25
Forgive my ignorance but where/what are the Cromarty Isles? I know where Cromarty is, and the Cromarty Firth but can't recollect seeing any islands while I was there, nor when I have been on ships sailing around that part of the coast. Mind you it was some decades ago!

Knowing Captain Alf Cromarty he probably thought his home on the Orkneys were the Cromarty Isles.......................

geoff

Malky Glaister
12th June 2012, 13:54
Geoff, I was on Dunadd in 1970 when something had gone wrong at Newport and the lock gates. We were diverted to Barry and spent a couple of weeks there.
Coming back from Barry Island several times pissed I drove quite a number of steam engines in Woodhams Yard in my head spending some time on them!
Was picked up the police there with a box of beer for the ship, they thought I had been pinching brass from the yard.
Captain was Jim Rhodes, Cheng Fisher.
Happy days

regards

Malky

rad
13th June 2012, 09:16
Knowing Captain Alf Cromarty he probably thought his home on the Orkneys were the Cromarty Isles.......................

geoff

Perhaps it was the isle of Cromarty,i always thought it was the Cromarty isles,What do i know,i was only the ships cook,but i do remember his familly waving bedsheets from the cliff top.

Erimus
13th June 2012, 09:40
Perhaps it was the isle of Cromarty,i always thought it was the Cromarty isles,What do i know,i was only the ships cook,but i do remember his familly waving bedsheets from the cliff top.

I like that recollection..will stick in my mind!!

rgds
geoff

Argyll48
13th October 2013, 18:27
Hi. My father was Duncan Macdonald who served his time with denholms and sailed on many of the ships mentioned with some of the masters. He did become a master but did not sail as captain with denholms as he came home to sail on the Clyde.

He passed away in January 2012 but always talked with great fondness about his long time with denholms

Gulpers
13th October 2013, 18:43
Argyll48,

On behalf of the Moderators, thanks for your introduction and a warm welcome aboard from the Isle of Anglesey.
You will thoroughly enjoy your time on SN and get many happy hours entertainment from your membership.
I never sailed with your father but there are plenty ex-Denholm members of SN and hopefully someone will have some memories to share with you. (Thumb)

randcmackenzie
13th October 2013, 22:01
Hi. My father was Duncan Macdonald who served his time with denholms and sailed on many of the ships mentioned with some of the masters. He did become a master but did not sail as captain with denholms as he came home to sail on the Clyde.

He passed away in January 2012 but always talked with great fondness about his long time with denholms

Was he cadet Instructor on the Crinan for a period?

muldonaich
13th October 2013, 22:11
if i remember right he was mate on one of the ore carriers i was on think he had a mustache kev.

Argyll48
13th October 2013, 22:25
Yes he was on an ore carrier but I don't ever remember him having a moustache he had strawberry blond hair and very blue eyes

Argyll48
13th October 2013, 22:26
Was he cadet Instructor on the Crinan for a period?

Yes he was indeed a cadet instructor on the crinan. Probably some of his happiest times

John Cassels
14th October 2013, 09:12
Gee whiz , I remember him , he was mate on the Crinan ( instuctor
Malcom Thompson) August '63. Master was Bert Buckley.
Yes , remember the blond hair and he also wore leather boots a lot of the
time. Very pleasant man as I recall.

Argyll48
14th October 2013, 09:26
Gee whiz , I remember him , he was mate on the Crinan ( instuctor
Malcom Thompson) August '63. Master was Bert Buckley.
Yes , remember the blond hair and he also wore leather boots a lot of the
time. Very pleasant man as I recall.

That's was him. I recognised your name on the site
Were you a cadet

John Cassels
14th October 2013, 11:56
That's was him. I recognised your name on the site
Were you a cadet

Yep , Crinan intake July or august 1963.

Argyll48
14th October 2013, 12:40
I wish dad had seen this site he would have loved it
Do you remember big JIM nicol I keep in touch with his family

ARRANMAN35
14th October 2013, 18:27
Only sailed with one, on the Craigallian, do not think that it was the Black Duncan reffered to, my fading memory recalls that he did not endear himself to the engineer crowd and others when he ordered removal of all "professionally erected, by the bosun, wireless aerials.
On passage to Poti he stopped every evening among the Greek Islands on the 4-8 and resumed in the morning at dawn on the 4-8.

Others I recall with a fair bit of nostalgia. Ken Turner the late David McKelvie on Arisaig, R Davies on Ormsary G MacIntosh on Clarkavon
Alex Cameron on Gleddoch.
Charlie Dewar on Craigallian. another gent whose first name I do not recall MacKay on Craigallian whose name I never saw again after grounding off the Lofotens in 1963.

Archie

John Cassels
14th October 2013, 18:50
I wish dad had seen this site he would have loved it
Do you remember big JIM nicol I keep in touch with his family

I'm a bit like Archie regarding memory but in my mind's eye , can
still see your dad as how he was in 1963. Still got a few old pics of
the Crinan but he's not in any of them unfortunatly.

Never sailed with Jim Nicol.

Gulpers
14th October 2013, 19:31
Argyll48,

Big Jim Nicol was Master on my first trip to sea on Troll River in September '72. We both joined in Genoa and he relieved Ian Ramsay. (Thumb)

randcmackenzie
14th October 2013, 23:26
Yes he was on an ore carrier but I don't ever remember him having a moustache he had strawberry blond hair and very blue eyes

That's the man - I can see him yet, always very genial and cheerful, even with the follies of 20 or so apprentices.

I seem to remember he smoked roll-ups, and come to think of it the boots ring a bell too.

I was on Crinan around January to July 1963.

Best regards.

randcmackenzie
14th October 2013, 23:32
Gee whiz , I remember him , he was mate on the Crinan ( instuctor
Malcom Thompson) August '63. Master was Bert Buckley.
Yes , remember the blond hair and he also wore leather boots a lot of the
time. Very pleasant man as I recall.

During my time on Crinan, Bert Buckley and Jim Nicol were Master, I can't remember in what order.

Campbell Kerr was Mate, your dad Instructor, and Malcolm Thomson Second Mate.

Campbell went home, your Dad was promoted to Mate, and Malcolm became Instructor.

Can't remember who became Second Mate.

PBCBNC.

Angus Murray
15th October 2013, 17:46
Famously a saying by himself " I am Captain Cant, that's spelt with an a"

Amusing.

I recall Cap Lomax being taken ashore from Dunadd on a stretcher 1969, at the General Terminus, Glasgow. I think Jim Rhodes took over.

I sailed on the Bibi with capt Allan, he had a nickname, granny. He was an old Old man at the time 1968.

Regards

Malky

I assume this is the same Jack Lomas that i sailed with when i was 2nd Mate on the Naess Trader, also 1979. On voyage from Seven Islands to Irlam he took ill in stormy North Atlantic weather. On arrival in Irlam, Capt A Anderson took over and i was asked if i would be willing to take Capt Lomas home by taxi to Glasgow. A very ill man received home safely to a grateful wife - nice people. I am not sure if the Dunadd episode you refer to was before or after this, or if this illness ended his seagoing.
Re Macdonald Masters - sailed with Dugald (one of 4 Masters on a 10 month voyage on Naess Endeavour - others being AV Mackay, ED Macgregor, and RHM Watson), Hector (Mountpark) and AJ Macdonald (Sir Andrew Duncan). AJ was a real gentleman and was sad to hear of his recent passing.

John Cassels
15th October 2013, 19:02
Would this be "Ginger"Lomas you refer ? and the only Anderson as Master ( as far as I can remember ) around that time would be George Anderson ?.

Varley
16th October 2013, 10:52
John, confused as to whether 69 or 79 is the year in question. If 79 then surely 'Big' Jim Anderson would have been Master by then?

Angus Murray
16th October 2013, 11:09
Checked my discharge book, which confirms that John G Lomas signed me on at Workington 18/8/69. A frail man and obviously not well. Archie Anderson did indeed relieve him at Irlam

Would this be "Ginger"Lomas you refer ? and the only Anderson as Master ( as far as I can remember ) around that time would be George Anderson ?.

Angus Murray
16th October 2013, 11:19
Checked my discharge book, which confirms that John G Lomas signed me on at Workington 18/8/69. A frail man and obviously not well. Archie Anderson did indeed relieve him at Irlam

Correction - you are correct John - it was George Anderson