BISCOre Fleet numbers

shieldrow
8th July 2014, 12:00
Maybe some members may fill in the missing ore carriers under long term charter to Bisco ie 15 years or so in the 1960s.
According to Andrew Wiltshire in his book Looking back at bulk carriers he mentions a total of 73 vessels under time charter. These are broken down into three classes, Port Talbot class 24 vessels, medium sized ie say under 25,000 tons dwt 44 vessels and Large over say 25,000 tons dwt, 5 vessels.
When I totalled the vessels I am aware of, I get the following numbers, 20 Port Talbot sized, 40 medium and 5 large including the Livanita.
So does anyone know the names of the 8 missing vessels?
With the Port Talbot class I have all the Denholms, Houlders plus Orecrest, the two Buries Markes, Naess Trader, Ravensworth.
The medium size list includes Huntings 2, Souter 5, Common 7, Watergate 1, Bolton 4, St Denis Cory 4, Houlder 2, Furness Withy 2, Denholm 4, Bowring 1, Mavrolean 1, Silver 4, Lyle 2,.
Large total 5 including Victore, Welsh Herald, Cape Howe, Gothland and Uglands Livanita.

If some of Uglands were on long term charter that would help fill the medium list and if the Essex was included it would help the Port Talbot list.

Any clues?

A.D.FROST
8th July 2014, 12:48
PHILIPPE LD(Louis Dreyfus)FARLAND(Farstad)GERORE(Gerrards)FILEFJELL( Olsen and Uglestad)CARMENCITA,EVITA,FAVORITA (Uglands)NORDLAND(Vesteraalens)MESNA(S-A)ESSEX(R-P)ARABELLA(Stray)GERORE(Gerrards)Most of the Norwegians were on shorter time charters than the Brits.LIVANITA not included because she was on voyage charters to BISCO
courtesy of SIF Record 23,24&25 "The Iron Ladies" by J.Harrison which features and lists with photos the 73

shieldrow
10th July 2014, 10:24
Thanks to AD Frost, I now have the completed list on a spreadsheet.
Must get myself a copy or copies of the SIF issues mentioned.
After checking the 1963 issue of LRS to obtain further vessel details some interesting notes arise. Mesna for instance was built at Scheeps de Biosbosch at Dordrecht. Finding a link to this ship yard in Dutch, I found that this was possibly the largest vessel they built. Sadly the photos of the present site look very much like nearly all UK shipyards.

Erimus
10th July 2014, 12:11
I was ship scheduling controller for BISCore in the 60's and 70's..currently travelling with limited wifi access so will cast my eyes over list on return later in month...we always used72 as timecharter fleet number..

Geoff

Erimus
14th July 2014, 11:16
I was ship scheduling controller for BISCore in the 60's and 70's..currently travelling with limited wifi access so will cast my eyes over list on return later in month...we always used72 as timecharter fleet number..

Geoff

Still away..Livanita was time chartered....used her for my holidays to Narvik!

Funny I had forgotten Mesna in my own lists..Captain Rolf Dolven, think he was part owner.

Geoff

twin
14th July 2014, 16:17
good day
regarding the mv mesna it was same for me
i forget abt this vsl coming to sept iles loading for biscore
i have old vsl line up for the year 65-66 and most of the day they have vsl Under charter with biscore coming to sept iles loading pellets or as we call blend cargo and always on the vsl line up destination biscore uk port
that was the good time to see so many vsl loading iron ore
harold

Erimus
14th July 2014, 16:59
Indeed..we had continuous contracts with Hanna Mining who were great people to deal with...our main ore being the Labrador B blend ore..also the highly sought of Carol Pellets and latterly. Labrador Fines..

Mesna was one if the earlier charters before we agreed 15 year charters with the likes of Souters..Common Bros etc etc...for new buildings.

Geoff

John Cassels
14th July 2014, 19:35
Was on the Crinan once when loading took 53 minutes - 9000 T. at 7 islands.

Frank P
14th July 2014, 21:28
I sailed on the Norwegian ship Arabella in 1971 and I believe that she had been on charter with BISCO from when she was built in 1959...

Cheers Frank

Erimus
14th July 2014, 23:02
I sailed on the Norwegian ship Arabella in 1971 and I believe that she had been on charter with BISCO from when she was built in 1959...

Cheers Frank
One of our favourites as she had that bit extra deadweight that the others didn't have...10300 on Summer Marks..

Geoff

twin
15th July 2014, 14:33
good day
regarding the arabella evebody at the loading beth was surprise this vsl was so low in the water fully loaded look like a submarine
the one we have not seen much at sept iles was the finnamore meadow
only one or two time a year during the biscore year
with biscore if they have vsl on a specific trade
the loading rate was very fast , we have 2 loaders working at the same time
the rate if i remember well was 3500mt by machine
harold

Roger Harrison
15th July 2014, 15:19
Don't forget the IRON MASTER ! Citiq, China owned. Made a lot of money in the dim and distant past off this Vessel.
Roger Harrison

Frank P
15th July 2014, 15:20
good day
regarding the arabella evebody at the loading beth was surprise this vsl was so low in the water fully loaded look like a submarine,
if they have vsl on a specific trade the loading rate was very fast , we have 2 loaders working at the same time
the rate if i remember well was 3500mt by machine
harold

When there was a bit of rough weather in the Atlantic and we were returning to the UK from either Seven Islands or Nouhadibou she behaved like a submarine....

Cheers Frank......(Thumb)

twin
16th July 2014, 16:22
what was the discharging port in uk for the biscore vsl
looking to the old vsl line up from sept iles
pellets was mostly for port Talbot , Cardiff, dagenham
blend always uk port without naming the port
i am wondering if biscore vsl went all the way to South africa for ldg iron ore and back to uk
harold

Erimus
16th July 2014, 18:04
what was the discharging port in uk for the biscore vsl
looking to the old vsl line up from sept iles
pellets was mostly for port Talbot , Cardiff, dagenham
blend always uk port without naming the port
i am wondering if biscore vsl went all the way to South africa for ldg iron ore and back to uk
harold
Still away from home... but the ports that took took Seven Islands and Port Cartier ores in season were.
PortTalbot,Newport,Cardiff,Birkenhead,Galapagos,Ty ne,Hartlepool,Tees,Immingham....Dagenham stopped buying through us when we were nationalised in 1970....


Geoff

trotterdotpom
16th July 2014, 21:01
Still away from home... but the ports that took took Seven Islands and Port Cartier ores in season were.
PortTalbot,Newport,Cardiff,Birkenhead,Galapagos,Ty ne,Hartlepool,Tees,Immingham....Dagenham stopped buying through us when we were nationalised in 1970....


Geoff

Galapagos? Is that a Darwinian slip?

Twin, I think I heard of a Bisco ship loading at Port Elizabeth but it could be my imagination.

John T

twin
16th July 2014, 21:13
in the sixty /seventy we are use to see biscore vsl loading at sept iles or port cartier this is the reason i was inquiring abt the finnamore meadow
seing this vsl only or 2 time a year she have to load somwhere else may be africa or russia
this type of vsl might be loading at brazilian port but from South africa i dont know
harold

Erimus
16th July 2014, 23:19
I altered Galapagos to Glasgow twice.........

The fleet in 1976 when I handed over, loaded at the following.many of the former smaller ports had stopped being used..such as Bone /Annaba and La Goulette.

Russia.Murmansk.
Norway. Narvik
Sweden.Oxelosund and Lulea.
Spain.Sagunto and Malilla in North Africa.
Mauretania. Nouadhibou/Por Etiene.
Liberia. Monrovia.
South Africa. Port Elizabeth.Sepitiba Bay.
Russia. Poti in Black Sea.
Australia.Port Hedland.
Brazil. Vitoria/Tubarao.
Canada. Sept Isles and Port Cartier.

This is not the definative list but those ports which were in regular use.

Geoff

John Cassels
17th July 2014, 07:49
Geoff - and Almeria Spain ?. Spent a great week there when the loader broke
down , 1966 - Arisaig.

tiachapman
17th July 2014, 09:19
loaded in Wabana a few times

A.D.FROST
17th July 2014, 10:12
Geoff - and Almeria Spain ?. Spent a great week there when the loader broke
down , 1966 - Arisaig.

First overseas port,week along-side lay-by berth when Newcastle Utd. won the Fairs Cup.Thats when I became a Mackem.Our punishment was 4 trips to Murmansk(Christmas'68) and a trip to Port Etienne (SILVERCRAG)(==D)

Erimus
17th July 2014, 11:12
First overseas port,week along-side lay-by berth when Newcastle Utd. won the Fairs Cup.Thats when I became a Mackem.Our punishment was 4 trips to Murmansk(Christmas'68) and a trip to Port Etienne (SILVERCRAG)(==D)
Yes had forgotten Almeria for Granada Smalls and Fines....prone toSpanish service problems as equipment second hand...

Wabana was popular only when steel wasn't selling as it gave a good grade of agricultural ****...Cargo Fleet loved it....

Conakry which only went to Tyne as a barter deal and Pepel were excluded as quantities were minimal by 1970, anyone go to Tuapse in Black Sea at all....special manganese similar to Poti Tchiaturi?? Remember sending La Colina and possibility that Ravensworth went too...

Geoff

Ps Tony....sori about 4 murmansks!

Nova Scotian
17th July 2014, 11:50
When I joined the Orepton in Workington in April, 1964 she was discharging ore loaded in Port Elizabeth. Quite a long haul and departure from the traditional loading ports.

twin
17th July 2014, 13:04
good morning

it was long time ago but if i remember well they have been a strike somewhere in uk and we received few of the biscore vsl loading iron ore concentrate back for what was call then royal dutch Ijmuiden in holland
i saw the mv simonburn not a biscore vsl but loading for the same destination
the biscore vsl where mostly the 14,000 mt dwt loading for ijmuiden during that particular summer
harold
harold

tiachapman
17th July 2014, 13:58
went to Bombay on the m/v Redcar loaded ore for Teesside 3 weeks loaded by hand by the local labour

twin
17th July 2014, 14:16
for this particular trip to bombay
if the mv redcar went on ballast all the way from uk to india or you have cargo to unload first near india
this was i thing the most far away destination for the biscore vsl
i known also that the mv lindisfarne went to chili from uk

Erimus
17th July 2014, 14:35
They will have gone empty in ballast....

Geoff

A.D.FROST
17th July 2014, 16:23
What about the German/Liberian River class ore carriers,MERSEY,TEES,CLYDE ORE etc

Erimus
17th July 2014, 18:03
These were Navios Coporation vessels used by US Steel for their Cerro Bolivar movements from Puerto Ordaz..Venezuela. they were contracts of . Affreightment so we didn't load any.....other similar contracts were for Hamersley Australia,the Sydvaranger from Kirkenes and part of the Swedish Iron Ores moved by TGO...

Geoff

Frank P
18th July 2014, 11:16
Geoff, one trip on the Arabella we discharged the ore at Irlham and then went to Birkenhead and loaded "scrap metal" and discharged in Spain (I think it was Bilbao) and then loaded in Almeria. Did any of the other ships do this?

We only did it the one time while I was onboard...

Cheers Frank

twin
18th July 2014, 13:29
we have 2 vsls Under biscore mv triculo and dalhanna who where not frequent visitor at sept iles
do you know why
specific trade!!

Erimus
18th July 2014, 15:00
Frank we were always looking for that sort of business but very rare..best was Land Rovers bottlescrewed to floor of Welsh Herald for CanadA..

TWIN. Dalhanna and Triculo....no reason why they did't do your ports...luck of the draw really.

Geoff

shieldrow
20th July 2014, 16:26
Hi Geoff regarding carrying cargo other than ore. When sailing on the Lindisfarne we arrived at Bidston Docks with a load of ore from either Sept Isles or Port Cartier. After discharging ore for John Summers at Shotton we moved berth down to Reas Wharf and loaded Steel strip coils for Genoa. Then after a fairly hillarious attempt to unload using a combination of floating cranes and relatively small mobile cranes in Genoa we finally sailed to Port Ettienne to load for Middlesbrough. Pretty certain it was Eston on that occasion but did discharge ore at Cargo Fleet on the Lindisfarne. Possibly lightened at Eston first owing to draught.
A funny tale regarding Port Ettienne, a shore based friend at the time asked where Port Ettienne was, I replied saying it was on the coast of West Africa in a country called Mauritania. On hearing the word 'coast' he asked if it had a good beach. After a quick thought I replied 'oh yes, the worlds longest'. He replied how long, to which I said, oh about 3000 miles, it's called the Sahara desert!
Other exciting ports were Bone Algeria on the Dalhanna to Hartlepool, Oxelsund to Glasgow again on the Dalhanna, Pepel to Newport and multiple Pepel to Ijmuiden on the good old River Afton. Dalhanna and Afton were classed as 'sister' ships but Afton slightly larger and of course older.
Finally where the Norweigian vessels on the same time charters as the British flagged vessels

Erimus
20th July 2014, 19:41
Ah memories shieldrow.......

We did load coils in several vessels for Genoa and later for South Africa..
Some from Mersey ex Lancashire Steel (Irlam via Gladstone) and some from Immingham as part of a barter...... i watched, I think, the Finnamore Meadow loading some for Port Elizabeth and then she would load Hotazel Manganese for Tees.......about a year after I left BSC I was working in Immingham and was asked to go and have a look at a cargo just landed of 'South African' rod in coil............I looked and it still had the now somewhat rusty BSC labels on from three years before!

I went onboard Dalhanna in Narvik one Sunday, as Narvik was shut!,and asked a rough looking gentleman if 'the old man' was onboard...who is asking he said.....so I told him.......turned out he was the Master!.......and he came from Sedgefield. On board was a selection of wives there for 'summer cruising' but I had given them three Narviks and a Murmansk.............on the promise of a Monrovia or Port Etienne as next voyage they gave my wife and I a decent chicken dinner..........on return to Tees, on Livanita, I contacted the late David Strath of Huntings who said I was lucky to get more than scraps!

The various Norwegian vessels were taken on 10,12 or 15 year timecharters earlier, as the Souters/Vallum/larger Houlder vessels......we had a very good personal relationship with Uglands and the old Lisita went roughly about the same time as Favorita, Evita, Carmencita came into regular use, as did Nordland & Mesna. Unlike the British flagged ships we had no partnership deals with any of them.....some of these were built specifically for us and prior to Nationalisation in 1970 we had shares in some vessels or their management companies.......

geoff

Frank P
20th July 2014, 23:00
Geoff, I was told that the Arabella was built to BISCO specifications, for the locks at Port Talbot, the biggest ship at that time (1959) and M Christian Stray were given a 15 year time charter. When did they enlarge the locks at Port Talbot.

At some loading ports there was normally other Ore ships at anchor and if some of these were British flagged BISCO ships we used to anchor and then jump the queue, I was told the reason was that we cost more and we needed to be on the move, was this so......

Cheers Frank

Erimus
21st July 2014, 07:30
I only joined BISCo in 1960 but I was then in Middlesbrough doing agency, so didn't have knowledge of who was specifically built for us,for Port Talbot, apart from the local ships,mainly Houlders....so you could be right. I don't remember which year the port changed but could no doubt Google it....

Taking ships out of turn was not common apart from Newport where three berths were being juggled...normally it was the grade of ore that was the decider not daily cost.....that affected more which ships to lay up!

Geoff

Peter Cheseldine
23rd January 2017, 15:12
I altered Galapagos to Glasgow twice.........

The fleet in 1976 when I handed over, loaded at the following.many of the former smaller ports had stopped being used..such as Bone /Annaba and La Goulette.

Russia.Murmansk.
Norway. Narvik
Sweden.Oxelosund and Lulea.
Spain.Sagunto and Malilla in North Africa.
Mauretania. Nouadhibou/Por Etiene.
Liberia. Monrovia.
South Africa. Port Elizabeth.Sepitiba Bay.
Russia. Poti in Black Sea.
Australia.Port Hedland.
Brazil. Vitoria/Tubarao.
Canada. Sept Isles and Port Cartier.

This is not the definative list but those ports which were in regular use.

Geoffplease could I point out that Sepetiba Bay is Brazil. We used to load there guide often on the Tyne Bridge. There an Tuburao.
Might you be thinking of Saldanha in South Africa.
Regards,
Peter

Erimus
23rd January 2017, 16:38
please could I point out that Sepetiba Bay is Brazil. We used to load there guide often on the Tyne Bridge. There an Tuburao.
Might you be thinking of Saldanha in South Africa.
Regards,
Peter

Indeed 'tis Saldanha was the place I was thinking of.....Tubarao yes,that was the Rio Doce port for larger vessels after Vitoria
Thanks

geoff

Peter Cheseldine
6th February 2017, 15:06
Indeed 'tis Saldanha was the place I was thinking of.....Tubarao yes,that was the Rio Doce port for larger vessels after Vitoria
Thanks

geoff

Geoff, were you with British steel after Biscore? I ask as in the late 70s early eighties I had the pleasure?? Of sailing under the copulating worms on the funnel of the Atlantic Splendour. (Ex Muirfield, ex Tibetan) I remember well the agent in Hunterston ... Duncan.

Erimus
6th February 2017, 16:27
Geoff, were you with British steel after Biscore? I ask as in the late 70s early eighties I had the pleasure?? Of sailing under the copulating worms on the funnel of the Atlantic Splendour. (Ex Muirfield, ex Tibetan) I remember well the agent in Hunterston ... Duncan.

I joined BISCore in Middlesbrough in 1960 after working for Constantines in their,then,HQ....In 1964 went to London and was involved with the small ship,i.e Port Talbot size,planning...then moved up to larger ships ( biggest at time was Welsh Herald at about 27500 dwt)...eventually we were absorbed into BSC and I was responsible,as Asst.Distribution Manager,for planning all future ship movements....at the time there were 72 ships.

We then started taking on some of the 50/70000 carriers (Panamax),usually on fairly limited time charter.The first of the larger ships (100,000 plus) was Trentwood with Gene Trefethen,sister vessel shortly after...then came the Tibetan which had problems from the start,renamed Muirfield with a presentation to the Committee of the golf course of that name...the ship was supposed to be same length as one of the holes...gave them a brilliant presentation ship model etc...we got a picture of the course and no invites!

Oddly enough I was offered a job in Glasgow Office but neither of us fancied there at the time.....so I left my job as Vessel Scheduling Manager at BSC to go back in Agency in Immingham/Grimsby etc..in 1976.

Bit longer answer than asked for Peter but might put my credentials down on ore carrier knowledge here!

geoff

Peter Cheseldine
7th February 2017, 15:05
Geoff,
I don't think anyone coul be doubtful about your ore carrier credentials! As I said I had the pleasure (if that is the word) of sailing on the Tibetan when she was the Atlantic Splendour with the copulating worms on the funnel. She was owned by C.Y.Tung at the time and I did four stints on her as chief engineer. Loading ports of Tubarao, Sepitiba and Seven Islands.
Severn Islands in mid-winter was a nightmare when we lost all power whilst alongside and had to be towed half-laden to Halifax for repairs.
When Furness Withy were taken over by C.Y.Tung, management passed to Furness and she claimed two of my fingers in the middle of the Indian Ocean when on route with iron ore for Japan where she was scrapped in, I think, 1982.
Peter.

Erimus
7th February 2017, 15:58
Ouch!

geoff