Engineers girl doing a uni research project and need help!

nikkibrew
20th November 2014, 16:44
Hi All!

I am nikki, kind of highjacking your forum here to pick some brains for a project I am doing. Thought introducing myself here would be best??

I am at Brighton university studying graphic design and doing a project on containerisation/container shipping as tribute to my dad who was a merchant navy engineer and my partner who is also currently an engineer with mearsk.

Im doing the milestones of container shipping history starting in the 1950s with the intermodlism and containerisation and the kick off of globalisation.

So far I has various facts and figures form things like loyds register IMaerst. But thought it would be great to get views and opinions from the people who were actually there.

What would you consider to be the major milestones of the industry?? from 1950s until now.

If you think i should post this in another section of you have specific people you may know that could help it would be amazing.

Warm regards everyone

A.D.FROST
20th November 2014, 17:40
May I suggest the books BOX BOATS(B.J.Cudahy) and "The BOX"(Marc Levinson)

nikkibrew
20th November 2014, 17:49
May I suggest the books BOX BOATS(B.J.Cudahy) and "The BOX"(Marc Levinson)

hey thanks for your reply, iv got 'the box' and the book ninety % of everything for reading research along with all the loyds archives Im just sick of reading and wanted actual conversation with people who have lived the business and the seas and not really sure where to go i got directed here. My dad did oil tankers and my boyfriend does containers so he's great for now, but i need history.

Pompeyfan
20th November 2014, 17:59
On behalf of the 'SN Moderating Team', welcome aboard Nikki.

Hopefully, someone will be able to help with the information you are seeking. In the meantime we have a Container Vessels forum that may help you here https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/forumdisplay.php?f=307

Geoff Gower
20th November 2014, 18:17
Might be a chance to help you Nikki. I was working ashore for Glen Line in early 1960s when the name of the games was "palletisation" which is self explanatory, but by 1967 was recruited into the then fledgling OCL ( Overseas Containers Ltd) formed by the major UK ship owners to develop the theory of containers. At that time the Europe -Australia service was operating and I worked on the Europe -Far East Trades. Feel free to ask. As an ex seafarer I got loads of projects to handle/develop, including ICD (Inland Container Depots)development, ships sizes, selected ports and logistics for container flows. !!

John Cassels
20th November 2014, 18:45
Container ships ? ; Sailed on them , loaded and discharged them , maintained and operated them , managed and repaired them plus anything else one can do with them. Feel free to ask.

Varley
20th November 2014, 19:07
I did a few trips on the Seatrain Gas Turbine vessels as did John above (I could not claim to be as versatile as he but 1 MW shaft generators and temperature controlled diesel electric containers, tightening Tt 7 connections whilst in the enclosure with a running gas turbine, burning sh*t in them - these things I remember). I would have stayed on them until the grave but they went for re-engining and a German flag so that was not to be.

John Cassels
20th November 2014, 19:13
Ah David , them was the days on the GTV's - the '70's. Would never have missed my years on the Seatrain gas turbines for all the tea in China. By far the best of my time at sea.

surfaceblow
21st November 2014, 07:07
Of all things that have changed over the years on container ships the one common factor in the industry is the corner post of the shipping container. This one piece of the container is the back bone of the industry which allows all of the containers to be lifted, stacked and placed on trucks.

Many thanks to "Keith W. Tantlinger, 92, an engineer who is widely credited with having created the first commercially viable modern shipping container including a corner mechanism that locks containers together, allowing them to be hefted by crane, stacked in ships and transferred from ships to trucks and trains far more easily and cheaply, died Aug. 27 in Escondido, Calif." Mr. Tantlinger is credited in having Mr. McLean relinquish the patents to the corner fittings and twist-lock, permitting them be used industrywide.

The New York Times obit can be found at http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/07/business/keith-tantlinger-builder-of-cargo-container-dies-at-92.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Also in the news this month is the last of the Lancer Class Container ships is head for scrap. The Lancer class was the first US purpose build container ship (1967 era). I sailed on a few of that class from 1972 to 2000.


Joe

Varley
21st November 2014, 09:12
Ah David , them was the days on the GTV's - the '70's. Would never have missed my years on the Seatrain gas turbines for all the tea in China. By far the best of my time at sea.

But wouldn't we have become bigger bores than we are now if we hadn't moved on?

trotterdotpom
21st November 2014, 10:17
I remember seeing one of those early container ships in the distance on the US east coast - we thought it was an aircraft carrier. Didn't realise it was the end of life as we knew it.

John T

makko
21st November 2014, 15:18
I posted the news item on the forum of the demise of the last Lancer class. I found particularly interesting the discussion of the hull and sponsons not too long ago.

Biggest milestone had to be the OCL Bay boats. The original design had been developed by Ocean Fleets (BF) and they were considered revolutionary.

I think that another milestone were the ACL RoRos. I remember in 1969 or so, a lad at school who's Dad was (I think) a Purser with Cunard brought in a poster pasted to hardboard showing a cutaway of the class. Lots of poring over details by us little uns who of course had followed with avid interest the Apollo program.

Another aspect which not many people think about is the logistics regarding empty boxes. I remember that Ocean had the COBRA run which ran all around the Middle East and India picking up and depositing boxes at strategic points.

On Barber Blue Sea, we used Balboa as a strategic freeport to concentrate and move on the MT's. The little DANA RoRos did much the same sort of work as the COBRA run. Being small, low draft and versatile, they offered a more or less cost effective method of rounding up the MT's.

Then there is optical character recognition to read the container number and the eventual penetration of bespoke computer programmes to track the boxes, automatic stackers (which were not a success), satellite communications, etc.

Rgds.
Dave

R58484956
21st November 2014, 15:49
Greetings Nikki and welcome to SN. Bon voyage.

Pilot mac
21st November 2014, 18:04
Hi Nikki, If you ask the question 'who started containerisation' you will receive many differing answers, Certainly one of the prime movers was the American entrepreneur Malcolm McLean who formed the Sealand Corporation in 1960. Sealand built big fast ships that held records for both the Atlantic and Pacific crossings (In fact I think they still do). Sealand ran thousands of containers per month to Vietnam during the war.

I know very little about pre 1960 containers but I do remember that British Rail operated a form of container called a 'liftvan' that was quite often carried on general cargo ships. These things were basically a goods wagon minus the wheels, I think they had a curved roof so could not be overstowed. I don't know when they started, maybe one of the 'old boys' on here will know!

regards
Dave

nikkibrew
21st November 2014, 20:58
Hi all so far who have posted, Apologise for the generic thank you. Your input is such a help. Call it sad, I get rolled eyes when I talk about this stuff in at Uni as they're all sat there looking into the coolest new thing on their MacBooks. I find the industry as whole so fascinating the entirety of my family as far back as i can research it has been involved in shipping one way or another.

So far I have

- From my dad he talked about the new wave of training that came about from the demand that was coming.

- The invention of refrigeration systems that increased the type of cargo that could be transported which in turn increased the global economy and brought more countries in to trade.

- The corner post of the container allowing the neat loading and unloading

I may if it is okay personally message a few to pick brains further.

Thank you again so much

nikkibrew
21st November 2014, 21:00
Thanks for all this, Ill have an investigation into the bits youv mentioned (==D)

I posted the news item on the forum of the demise of the last Lancer class. I found particularly interesting the discussion of the hull and sponsons not too long ago.

Biggest milestone had to be the OCL Bay boats. The original design had been developed by Ocean Fleets (BF) and they were considered revolutionary.

I think that another milestone were the ACL RoRos. I remember in 1969 or so, a lad at school who's Dad was (I think) a Purser with Cunard brought in a poster pasted to hardboard showing a cutaway of the class. Lots of poring over details by us little uns who of course had followed with avid interest the Apollo program.

Another aspect which not many people think about is the logistics regarding empty boxes. I remember that Ocean had the COBRA run which ran all around the Middle East and India picking up and depositing boxes at strategic points.

On Barber Blue Sea, we used Balboa as a strategic freeport to concentrate and move on the MT's. The little DANA RoRos did much the same sort of work as the COBRA run. Being small, low draft and versatile, they offered a more or less cost effective method of rounding up the MT's.

Then there is optical character recognition to read the container number and the eventual penetration of bespoke computer programmes to track the boxes, automatic stackers (which were not a success), satellite communications, etc.

Rgds.
Dave

nikkibrew
21st November 2014, 21:02
I think i came across some this information about the corner unit but didn't actually realise how much it had influenced the unloading and loading of the containers. Really helpful thank you

Of all things that have changed over the years on container ships the one common factor in the industry is the corner post of the shipping container. This one piece of the container is the back bone of the industry which allows all of the containers to be lifted, stacked and placed on trucks.

Many thanks to "Keith W. Tantlinger, 92, an engineer who is widely credited with having created the first commercially viable modern shipping container including a corner mechanism that locks containers together, allowing them to be hefted by crane, stacked in ships and transferred from ships to trucks and trains far more easily and cheaply, died Aug. 27 in Escondido, Calif." Mr. Tantlinger is credited in having Mr. McLean relinquish the patents to the corner fittings and twist-lock, permitting them be used industrywide.

The New York Times obit can be found at http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/07/business/keith-tantlinger-builder-of-cargo-container-dies-at-92.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Also in the news this month is the last of the Lancer Class Container ships is head for scrap. The Lancer class was the first US purpose build container ship (1967 era). I sailed on a few of that class from 1972 to 2000.


Joe

Laurie Ridyard
22nd November 2014, 17:17
I believe containers ( although smaller than today's)were first used on canal barges in the early 1800s.. I read about it somewhere.... I'll do a quick search.

Laurie Ridyard.

Laurie Ridyard
22nd November 2014, 17:27
Yup! I was right! See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containerization

chadburn
22nd November 2014, 20:55
I believe containers ( although smaller than today's)were first used on canal barges in the early 1800s.. I read about it somewhere.... I'll do a quick search.

Laurie Ridyard.

Certainly Canal Box Boats were proposed for the European Canal Network in the 1920's, as you say with smaller containers. There is a drawing of such a vessel on Page 2 of my photographs.

Boatman25
22nd November 2014, 21:28
From perhaps a different point of view, containers did away with long periods in port, on cargo ships we often stayed a week or more discharging and loading in many ports on our voyages and enjoyed all the ports had to offer, the length of the trips often gave long leave times, although many had to go back early in order to support their families, but the most important thing that containers did was lose me mine and many others their jobs as shipping companies went and the ships went to, all the big shipping lines gone now, Blue Funnel, Harrisons, Manchester Liners, Clan Line, Brocklebanks, just names in history as are the crews who sailed with them

david freeman
23rd November 2014, 08:22
Do Not forget the railways and the container box loaed onto a flat wagon, and in my childhood the 3wheller lorries that used to take the container from the rail sidings/yard to the delivery ponit. There were 2 types of container one for fish (WEt) and one for general frieght. These were an item in the Hornby (Toys) 3rail electic train sets of the 50's.

Johnny Walker
23rd November 2014, 09:11
There was a documentary on B.B.C. 4 a few years ago 'The box that changed the world' It is a narrated story of how a simple invention -the shipping container - changed the world forever and forced Britain into the modern era of globalisation. It is an excellent story of the container revolution that has happened over the last 40 odd years.

Robert Hilton
23rd November 2014, 10:32
I remember seeing one of those early container ships in the distance on the US east coast - we thought it was an aircraft carrier. Didn't realise it was the end of life as we knew it.

John T

And I saw a container ship in the Thames Estuary approaches some years ago. Her funnel was pretty much amidships and I had to look carefully to determine which end was which.

Supergoods
24th November 2014, 02:45
My first encounter with a container ship was in 1960 when one of the early converted break-bulk ships in the Sea Land Fleet was moored astern of us in Houston.
She was a self discharger and rolled considerably while handling cargo.
In 1969 I transferred from NZS to Container fleets on the Botany Bay.
During the time between NZS and OCL I spent two months assigned to the planning staff in Antwerp and Rotterdam while the ships were blacked by the dockers in Tilbury.
An interesting grounding in containership stability and load distribution. It helped when I finally went to sea although I found that many of the ships personnel had little interest in loading and stowage, maybe this was the start of the rot in seagoing. Another change was the birth of micromanagement from ashore which took away many of our established responsibilities.
I spent a year at Tilbury carrying out work study in the terminal.
After this I decided shore employment had more scope and took a terminal job in Southampton with the Far East consortia.
After the terminal was up and running it became clear that promotions would not be available and I returned to involvement with the time charter bulk trades, but that is another story
Ian

Robert Hilton
24th November 2014, 07:00
Supergoods #25 You seem to have added some facts that may not have made their way into the books.

Pilot mac
24th November 2014, 08:26
My first encounter with a container ship was in 1960 when one of the early converted break-bulk ships in the Sea Land Fleet was moored astern of us in Houston.
She was a self discharger and rolled considerably while handling cargo.
In 1969 I transferred from NZS to Container fleets on the Botany Bay.
During the time between NZS and OCL I spent two months assigned to the planning staff in Antwerp and Rotterdam while the ships were blacked by the dockers in Tilbury.
An interesting grounding in containership stability and load distribution. It helped when I finally went to sea although I found that many of the ships personnel had little interest in loading and stowage, maybe this was the start of the rot in seagoing. Another change was the birth of micromanagement from ashore which took away many of our established responsibilities.
I spent a year at Tilbury carrying out work study in the terminal.
After this I decided shore employment had more scope and took a terminal job in Southampton with the Far East consortia.
After the terminal was up and running it became clear that promotions would not be available and I returned to involvement with the time charter bulk trades, but that is another story
Ian

Hi Ian,
In my experience there was very little consultation (if any) re loading and stowage. 'Micromanagement' ashore did the stowage and the only consultations I remember were regarding 'hazardous'. This did take away a lot of our traditional responsibilities, I only wish that shoreside management had also taken responsibility for lashing equipment/twistlocks etc as I found this a total nightmare. Typical scenario would be arrive with full load, discharge, backload and just before completion somebody would knock on your door and say there were not enough twistlocks !

regards
Dave

John Cassels
24th November 2014, 09:27
Hi Ian,
In my experience there was very little consultation (if any) re loading and stowage. 'Micromanagement' ashore did the stowage and the only consultations I remember were regarding 'hazardous'. This did take away a lot of our traditional responsibilities, I only wish that shoreside management had also taken responsibility for lashing equipment/twistlocks etc as I found this a total nightmare. Typical scenario would be arrive with full load, discharge, backload and just before completion somebody would knock on your door and say there were not enough twistlocks !

regards
Dave

Dave , having experienced container ship ops from 3 sides ( ch.mate - marine ops manager - container terminal manager) my experience is that the ship was always fully aware of all aspects of loading , stowage and lashing - not only imco boxes.
You comment re lashing gear is correct. The worst I ever saw was in a UK port in the early '70's. Once after sailing , saw that stevedores had replaced a pontoon without first removing a lashing wire that was lying over the coaming and compression bar. Also used to catch them regularly tipping a turnbuckle over the wall as it was easier than lowering to deck. Then during unlashing , letting bridge fittings and twistlocks fall from a great height onto the deck. A few things I did manage stop after coming ashore.

Pilot mac
24th November 2014, 12:54
JC,
a memorable experience for me was being asked if I would accept a container with 'cyanide products' within. This required an 'antidote' kit to be carried aboard, after checking the stowage in the box and receiving the 'kit' I said yes.
No problem until the following trip where it was noticed on the hazardous list that another container of cyanide had been loaded, this time without consultation nor the kit. Needless to say I made them take it off as the antidote kit was travelling with the previous shipment. Not attaching any blame here but probably down to pressure/schedules etc etc.
I'm not particularly up to speed with current practices but we also used to have problems with declared weights, I certainly hope that has been tightened up.
Communication between shore and ship was better when on T/C, but most of my time was spent on ships where owners man ashore would do the load, some of them non seafarers.

regards
Dave