01:45

Welcome
Welcome!Welcome to Ships Nostalgia, the world's greatest online community for people worldwide with an interest in ships and shipping. Whether you are crew, ex-crew, ship enthusiasts or cruisers, this is the forum for you. And what's more, it's completely FREE.

Click here to go to the forums home page and find out more.
Click here to join.
Log in
User Name Password

  Home · Search · Register  

Home » Maritime Art Photo Options

« Previous image · Next image »

ELBE no. 5
ELBE no. 5

Click on image to view larger image

« Previous image  · Slide Show · Next image »


Photo Details
blausioux



Senior Member

Registered: August 2015
Location: Zürich / Switzerland
Posts: 519
View Gallery Profile Send PM users gallery
On June 8, 2019, the ELBE no. 5 collided with a container ship and sank.
The pilot saver from 1883 had only returned to the port of Hamburg at the end of May, after having been extensively restored for around 1.5 million euros.

Oil on panel 9,5 x 12 inch / 2019
· Date: Wed, 26 June 19 · Views: 623
· Filesize: 35.3kb, 351.5kb · Dimensions: 888 x 705 ·
Additional Info
Keywords: ELBE no. 5
Source of Image, If not your own: own painting
USL_Paquebot_recto.jpeg
Painting_exhibition_Santander.jpg
PENCIL_DRAWING_EASTLAND.JPG
ec19-b-1024.jpg
SPIRIT_OF_DISCOVERY_with_Duchess_of_Cornwall_Christening.jpg
SPIRIT_OF_DISCOVERY_Off_Dover_Painting_oil_on_panel_23_June_2019_3_sn.jpg
PENCIL_DRAWING_HAWAIIAN_MONARCH.JPG
PENCIL_DRAWING_THE_COVERED_WAGON.JPG
8877AE36-EAB5-45E6-9A61-6C0D331C6E68.jpeg
0D047247-8F57-448A-8E2F-AF8709DBBC16.jpeg
Elbe_No_5_705pix_D.jpg
USST_488_Recto.jpeg
DSC006481.JPG
Eugenio_C_Post_card_.jpg
Costa_Romantica_Post_card_.jpg
Carla_C_Post_card_.jpg
Flavia_Post_card_.jpg
Enrico_C_Post_card_.jpg
Anna_C_1.jpg
Franca_C_.jpg
PENCIL_DRAWING_ONONDAGA.JPG
more »

Author
Thread  
blausioux

Senior Member

Registered: August 2015
Location: Zürich / Switzerland
Posts: 519
Wed, 26 June 19 16:11

Video shortly before the collision
At the last moment one hears the skipper call "hard backbord!"
After that, people push the rudder to backbord instead of to starboard.
What a mistake!

https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendung...hamj82444.html

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/euro...-5-sinks-after

------------------------------
Emil Gut
This user is offline
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
Frank P

Senior Member

Registered: March 2005
Location: Morecambe
Posts: 6,655
Wed, 26 June 19 16:43

A nice painting Emil.

Frank
This user is offline
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
Wallace Slough
Senior Member

Registered: March 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,776
Wed, 26 June 19 17:21

A nice painting Blausioux, but a very sad story. A good friend, Harold Sommer, restored this vessel in Sausalito, California when she was known as the Wander Bird. She was a total wreck when he bought her and it took Harold over ten years to restore the boat. Harold was a master shipwright who did beautiful work. She had been moored in Sausalito for many years after Warwick Tompkins had sold her and was used as a houseboat in the harbor and was in awful condition. I understand that one of the tenants had been the folk song group "Kingston Trio." After her restoration, Harold sailed her in the bay and would regularly beat the schooner Californian in the Master Mariner's race. I recall piloting a ship down from Sacramento and seeing the schooner Californian heading up Old River to Sacramento. I called them on the radio and asked who had won the Master Mariner's race that year. The Captain answered that Wander Bird beat them again, but "we'll get them next year." They never did. When Harold sold the boat, she was taken up to Puget Sound and the new owners failed to maintain her and she fell into disrepair. It was wonderful to see she was taken back to her original home and restored and terrible to hear of her collision and sinking. It sure looked like "pilot error" on the schooner from viewing the video. Hopefully the new owners will be able to restore her to her original condition.
This user is online
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
Stephen J. Card

Senior Member

Registered: November 2006
Posts: 8,920
Wed, 26 June 19 20:18

Well done Emil! Beautiful colours!

Stephen
This user is online
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
Stephen J. Card

Senior Member

Registered: November 2006
Posts: 8,920
Thu, 27 June 19 02:30

I'm not so sure about 'pilot error' on the ELBE 5.

Forget for a moment. If the vessels had met in open seas, the container vessel must give way to the schooner. In the last moments the schooner was went to starboard. In the video the container ship seems to turning to port. The fault lies with the container ship.

OK, the container ship was in a shipping channel. The schooner was crossing the channel. OK, the schooner was not making the best course to cross the channel. The ELBE is a 37m length vessel. Was the container vessel constrained by her draught? I don't think so. When the two vessels met the container ship should have made an alteration to starboard OR if not able to go to starboard, he should have reduced his speed or stopped engine.
This user is online
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
vegaskip
Senior Member

Registered: November 2010
Location: Auchtermuchty
Posts: 3,227
Thu, 27 June 19 04:30

Beautiful painting regardless of the circumstances. You 'do' that Vintage look so well
Jim
This user is offline
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
eddyw
Senior Member

Registered: November 2007
Posts: 7,442
Thu, 27 June 19 07:28

Tragic. Fortunately all rescued albeit with some injured. Might this have been confusion of helm order V rudder order?
This user is offline
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
blausioux

Senior Member

Registered: August 2015
Location: Zürich / Switzerland
Posts: 519
Thu, 27 June 19 08:51

Thank you Wallace,
Big respect to your friend Harold Sommer.
One can only thank him for his great work to preserve/restauration this ship.
Here is a video in German (Pilot No.5 ELBE returns after 120 years) where your friend Harold Sommer can be seen from 3:30 onwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D8lqGOZhG8

Emil

------------------------------
Emil Gut
This user is offline
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
blausioux

Senior Member

Registered: August 2015
Location: Zürich / Switzerland
Posts: 519
Thu, 27 June 19 08:56

Thank you Stephen for your assessment.
I just heard the container ship was traveling correctly on the right side of the fairway.
The traditional sailship was on the way to Hamburg and crossed against the wind and did not respond to radio messages of the container ship.
The sailing ship might have had to make the turn earlier to keep a safe distance.
Let's see how the investigation goes on.

Emil

------------------------------
Emil Gut
This user is offline
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
blausioux

Senior Member

Registered: August 2015
Location: Zürich / Switzerland
Posts: 519
Thu, 27 June 19 10:11

Sorry, I do not want to exaggerate with links to Youtube.
.... but, about the subject of wooden shipbuilding.
Rebuild of the 107 year old Gaff Cutter "TALLY HO". Have looked in my free time some of the 52 episodes with joy and fascination.
Guess the people on SN know it well.
Emil

------------------------------
Emil Gut
This user is offline
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
Stephen J. Card

Senior Member

Registered: November 2006
Posts: 8,920
Thu, 27 June 19 11:24

At the last moment one hears the skipper call "hard backbord!"
After that, people push the rudder to backbord instead of to starboard.
What a mistake!

I don't think he made a mistake. He ordered 'hard backbord' and that is what they did.. the TILLER went to port (backboard) to turn the vessel to Starboard. It was the containership went wrong and he turn to port. All depends on how this vessel was ordering... rudder orders or tiller orders.

The ELBE 5 was wrong to cross the channel but the Container ship went wrong to go to port and failed to reduce speed.

We shall see. Faults on BOTH side.

On ELBE 5... do they have a navigation console with VHF handy? It is a sailing vessel. :-)


Stephen
This user is online
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
eddyw
Senior Member

Registered: November 2007
Posts: 7,442
Thu, 27 June 19 12:30

Sound signals audible from container ship at start of video (4 blasts possibly 4 of 5? Rule 34 (D)).
This user is offline
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
Stephen J. Card

Senior Member

Registered: November 2006
Posts: 8,920
Thu, 27 June 19 14:32

No right-of-way
A commonly held misconception concerning the rules of marine navigation is that by following specific rules, a vessel can gain certain rights of way over other vessels.[14] No vessel ever has absolute "right of way" over other vessels. Rather, there can be a "give way" (burdened) vessel and a "stand on" (privileged) vessel, or there may be two give way vessels with no stand on vessel. A stand on vessel does not have an absolute right of way over any give way vessel, for if there is a risk of collision, a stand on vessel may still be obliged (under Rule 2 and Rule 17) to give way so as to avoid it, if doing so will be effective and is practicable.


Blowing the horn is great. How quickly could a vessel under sail get out of the way? The ELBE 5 should not have gone into the channel ahead of the container ship. The container ship could have done everything to get out of the way. He seems to have gone to port, wrong and he should have reduced speed.
This user is online
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
blausioux

Senior Member

Registered: August 2015
Location: Zürich / Switzerland
Posts: 519
Thu, 27 June 19 14:39

That's interesting what you write Stephen. You know, i'm a sailor Greenhorn.
As you say, we shall see. Maybe faults on BOTH side.

About VHF handy;...I have read in the press that the ELBE skipper did not react to radio messages from the container ship long before the crash. I do not know anymore.

Emil

------------------------------
Emil Gut
This user is offline
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
Bootsmann

Senior Member

Registered: February 2006
Location: n/a
Posts: 3,310
Thu, 27 June 19 15:16

Elbe 5 is to blame 100%. Of course a green to green-passage would have been agreed to if asked on VHF first. The helmsman was NOT qualified when ordered hard a-port.
Please also note that the River Elbe is NOT the open sea!
Special rules apply here concerning ANY right of way: Seeschifffahrtsstrassenordnung §25(2) SeeSchStrO
Feel free to translate if the drawings are not clear to you:

https://www.polizei.hamburg/contentb...ln-elbe-do.pdf

https://www.buzer.de/gesetz/1989/a28444.htm

Rgds, Manfred
This user is offline
Click here to see this users profile Click here to Send this user a Private Message Find more posts by this user Visit this user's gallery  
  Page:  1 · 2 · 3more

Photo Sharing Gallery by PhotoPost
Copyright © 2007 All Enthusiast, Inc.



Support SN


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.