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HMS JAGUAR
HMS JAGUAR

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Tim Webb



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Registered: July 2005
Location: Bedfordshire
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HMS Jaguar (F37), was a Leopard-class Type 41 anti-aircraft frigate of the British Royal Navy. She was the last frigate built by William Denny and Brothers for the Royal Navy. Launched in 1957 and commissioned 12 December 1959
After a spell in reserve, she was sold on 6 July 1978 to the Bangladesh Navy for £2 million and commissioned in 1978 as BNS Ali Haider (F17) where she served as a training ship. She was decommissioned during a ceremony held in her home port of Chittagong on 22 January 2014
· Date: Mon, 28 October 19 · Views: 424
· Filesize: 48.0kb, 113.3kb · Dimensions: 1024 x 727 ·
Additional Info
Keywords: HMS JAGUAR
Source of Image, If not your own: İMOD-Print in Own Collection
Location photo was taken: Not known
Date photo was taken: 1963
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CEYLON220

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Registered: February 2006
Location: Silloth Cumbria
Posts: 1,902
Tue, 29 October 19 11:40

Why is she still flying the Union flag at sea--is it a ceremonial occasion ?
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Steve Oatey

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Registered: February 2008
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 1,220
Wed, 30 October 19 19:51

Interesting that you have called it the Union Flag (which I would otherwise heartily agree with) when these are the exact circumstances when it is a Union Jack.

Rgds, Steve
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CEYLON220

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Registered: February 2006
Location: Silloth Cumbria
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Fri, 1 November 19 05:59

Steve, I was always taught that the flag we come under is the" Union Flag", the pole that it is attached to is the "Jack", I`ve taught my son ,my Grandchildren ,and now my Great Grandchildren the same, even one of my Grand children pulled up her teacher when she referred to the flag as the Union Jack, teacher said that she was right.
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John Rogers

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Location: St.Louis, Missouri. USA
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Fri, 1 November 19 06:35

The national flag of the United Kingdom is the Union Jack, also known as the Union Flag. The current design of the Union Jack dates from the union of Ireland and Great Britain in 1801.
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Mad Landsman

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Registered: December 2005
Location: Poole
Posts: 6,383
Fri, 1 November 19 11:48

I am sorry to have to disagree but the origins of the 'Jack' are from the term 'National jack flag'. The word jack is an archaic diminutive meaning that it was smaller than the main flag. Over time it became known as the jack flag and then just 'Jack' or even 'Naval Jack' as we now know it. It was worn to show that the vessel was the King's ship and was displayed at the foremost part of the ship on a special staff which was known as the jack staff and later also just called 'the jack'.
It was only worn when the sails were lowered for purely practical reasons, fouling the jib etc, but with powered vessels that has transformed into etiquette.

Other Nations also have a National Jack flag or Naval Jack. The USA also call theirs the Union Jack.

I cannot find a source but I seem to recall that the Jack may be flown with the Ensign while under way if a vessel is 'conducting the monarch's business', such as a Queens Harbour Master. Probably not the case here.

------------------------------
Malcolm.
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Steve Oatey

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Location: Vancouver Island
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Sat, 2 November 19 03:35

When the Union flag was flown from the masthead of the Britannia, for example, it was referred to as "Union at the main" or similar. When the Union flag is flown from the jackstaff of one of H.M. ships, it becomes a Union jack, because it was already the Union and now it's a jack as well.
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FG86
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Registered: January 2011
Location: Falmouth UK
Posts: 3,585
Sat, 2 November 19 08:26

There is something at the back of my mind that during the 90's there was a legal change to the name of the Union flag, in so much that it is now accepted that it can be called Union jack. I will try to find the relevant report etc...
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John Rogers

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Sat, 2 November 19 08:45

I am getting long in the teeth, almost 88 years young, all my life from a kid I have always known the flag as the Union Jack. But like FG86 said there may have been a change. I will also search for the change. Looks like we have a good thread started.
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John Rogers

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Sat, 2 November 19 08:48

I found this.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/fla...United-Kingdom
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CEYLON220

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Registered: February 2006
Location: Silloth Cumbria
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Sun, 3 November 19 10:20

Roger, like you I am also in my 80s and from my school days many moons ago I have lived knowing that the flag of my country was known as the Union Flag, they can change as many laws as they like it will not change my way of thinking ---the flag is the Union Flag which is flown from a pole called a Jack --- the only time that I ever saw a naval ship flying the flag from the bows of a ship at sea was on ceremony duties or in harbour -and also flying from the yardarm on exercises etc-- pleased to see that we all don`t agree on the subject.
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John Rogers

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Location: St.Louis, Missouri. USA
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Sun, 3 November 19 10:56

Not that I disagree with you Ceylon its that there are so many interpitations and what we were told growing up, I was taught it was the Union Jack, As you can see if you click on my link above the well known Britannica says its the Union Jack. I have never heard it called the Union
flag until reading this thread. I left the UK in 1954 so times have changed and different laws have applied since I left. I Yield to people that know more than I.
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Mad Landsman

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Registered: December 2005
Location: Poole
Posts: 6,383
Sun, 3 November 19 14:09

My 1771 reprint of the Encyclopaedia Britannica shows:
On a page titled 'Flags' a picture of the original flag of the Union just marked 'Union'
In the section on parts of a ship, the flag which is flown from the foremost part of the ship is called the 'Jack flag' and the staff mounted on the end of the bowsprit is called the 'Jack staff'. On the Mizzen mast the flag, with staff, is called the 'Flag Union'.

Over 250 years the common use and meanings of words tends to drift somewhat but I don't think that calling it a Union flag is in anyway a new concept.

------------------------------
Malcolm.
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CEYLON220

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Registered: February 2006
Location: Silloth Cumbria
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Sun, 3 November 19 18:29

Another subject concerning the Union Flag--Union Jack is seeing it hoisted the wrong way up by many people especially these roadside snack bars up and down the country, surely if you are born in this country there is no excuse not to to show your flag the proper way up. By the way shipmates I stick to the Union Flag !!!

John, looking at your profile I would have thought you would have seen enough of the world after serving in the MN without joining the army to see more of it--- very good service record though, well done.
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John Rogers

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Sun, 3 November 19 22:04

Thank you Ceylon, yes many people ask me that. I always tell them since I started off in the army as a Para and landed on my head a few times I guess it has something to do with my scrambled brains, that's if I had any to start with.
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