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sam2182sw 29th December 2005 20:44

Saguanay Line
 
Some Time About The 1960 At Hull Docks We Had Alot Of This Shipping Companys Ships In All At The Same Time Six Thay Had All Come From The Usa Loaded With Grain Thay All Must Have Left In A Convoy Thay All Arrived Toughter It Was Unuseualy To See That Meany Ships Of The Same Line In Dock Can Anyone Put Lite On What Happened To That Company Thay Had Some Very Fine Looking Ships.there Names All Began With Sun--- Please Post Photos If You Have Any Must Have Blown The Local Shipping Agents Head In Looking After Lot Sam2182sw

Bruce Carson 29th December 2005 21:22

Hi Sam:
Try the following URL for some pictures and information on the company:

http://iancoombe.tripod.com/id19.html

Bruce C.

John Rogers 29th December 2005 21:29

There was a big demand for grain in Europe at the time.
John

JET 30th December 2005 00:57

Saguenay Shipping Ltd
 
Hi Sam, In the 1959 Edition of the Directory of Shipowners, Shipbuilders & Marine Engineers it lists the company as having a Head Office in Montreal.
Its services are cargo, liner and tramp services

The fleet is bareboat chartered and there are 14 ships listed. As you said they are all prefixed Sun.
Two more ships, Sunek & Sunrhea were being built at that time.
As mentioned there was a lot of grain being transported from Canada and the U.S.A. to Europe and U.S.S.R.

The interesting item is the statement; The Company also operates more than 70 time-chartered vessels, both steam & motor.
What were the details and names of all these other ships and what happened to them and the Company?

Regards John

sam2182sw 30th December 2005 12:23

Saguanay Shipping
 
Thanks for that lads i will look at the info you hae posted. its funny when one is sat thinking about what you have done in your life and when you join a great site like this it ame to me the ships we have worked on then thay just disapair well thats what happened about SAGUANEY. as you said there must have beem a big demand for grain to see so meany ship of one line in dok at one time was ery interisting sam

janbonde 30th December 2005 16:18

They were also involved in the bauxite trade I was with them on their Canadian flag ships ,which traded from the West Indies up the Saguenay river in the Province of Quebec,they also had Norwegian and British flagged ships on charter,they also had bulkers built for the bauxite trade which i belive were British flagged

sam2182sw 30th December 2005 18:39

you learn somethink on this site sam

Ron Stringer 30th December 2005 22:15

Saguenay Bauxite
 
In 1960/61 whenever we were in Bridgetown Barbados (every month) it seemed that there was a big green-hulled Saguenay boat at the new bauxite loading terminal. We were jealous because they got ashore and we only stayed anchored in the bay for about 8 or 10 hours before sailing for Port of Spain.

Ron

sam2182sw 31st December 2005 18:50

hi ron sounds about right

Stornoway 31st December 2005 20:52

Saguenay Shipping
 
I served with Saguenay as 3rd.and 2nd. Officer on the Sunflower in 1961/62.She was a C1A similar to the pictured Sunrose,however the previous owner had converted the wheelhouse into a passenger lounge and bar (12passengers) and added a Wheelhouse and radio room on top
She carried general cargo south calling at Bermuda,San Juan, St. Lucia,Grenada,Port of Spain and Georgetown and then loaded bauxite at the Alcan plant at Mackenzie
However due to Demerara River draft restrictios we had to top off in Chagaramus Trinidad
North bound she discharged at Alcan in Port Alfred up the Saguenay River and
Montreall in the summer.
Loading for southbound at Montreal(Halifax in Winter) and St.John N.B.
I finished my time with Saguenay as 2nd.officer on the Sunrhea a gearless bulk carrier,carrying alumina from Port Esquivill to Alcan in Kitimat B.C. and
Sundelsora in Northern Norway with a few grain cargoes in between.
I enjoyed the time I spent with Saguenay particularly on the West Indian
runs and they did pay better than most companies in those days

stan mayes 8th July 2007 22:07

Re Postings from ex officers of Saguenay Terminals.
Do any of you remember Captain Philippe Georges ?
All through 1960's he was Chief Officer and Master of SUNRHEA - SUNFLOWER and SUNBRAYTON..

stan mayes 8th July 2007 22:20

During 1951 and 1952 I was in two ships on charter to Saguenay.
In FREECREST,bauxite from Trinidad to Port Alfred and coal cargoes from Norfolk VA to Hamburg and Rotterdam..
In STARCREST Coal cargoes from Norfolk VA to Hamburg and return cargoes of iron ore from Narvik to Baltimore...
Coincidentally, Captain Georges served part of his Apprenticeship in FREECREST and STARCREST of Crest Line [ Ivan Ivanovic & Co ]

Don Sangster 29th January 2008 03:14

Saguenay
 
Joined the Tricape in June 1955 Lightship Cardiff To British Guiana up the River to Mackenzie I had the Wheel when the pilot boarded and he wouldn't let me leave when my watch ended, for the next 6 months I was stuck everytime we arrived there the same going up the Saguenay to Port Alfred only went ashore once into Chicoutimi but the captain was good he used to give me 6 cans of beer each time we docked, the Tricape was owned by Triton Steamship Montreal
although we never got there managed by Goulandris Bros had a couple of bad trips ended up in drydock in Norfolk for three weeks and once in Baltimore arrived home with a cargo of grain about the 20th Dec, enjoyed time in Mackenzie never got ashore in Chagaramus Bay
Cheers Don

KYRENIA 8th November 2008 19:05

I worked on the Saguenay ships as shoregang rigger in London in the 1970/80,s. They berthed in the West India docks then when these closed to the Royal Albert. They usually topped off with cargo in Avonmouth. Saguenay did a joint service with T & J Harrisons to the West Indies.They often carried racehorses to Barbados. I believe the Saguenay ships returned to the U.K via Canada.
Cheers John.

eldersuk 8th November 2008 21:49

1 Attachment(s)
Sailed on a 13 month voyage on the "Sunjarv" on charter to Saguenay. We were on the bauxite trade.
Part cargos from Mackenzie, Guyana and top up in Chuagaramus, Trinidad. Thence to either Europe, usually Norway, or to Port Alfred. We also did one trip from Port Alfred to Kitimat.

Derek

Paul Baxter 8th November 2008 22:53

Hello Sam.

I was nopt at sea when the ships arrived in Uk all with grain,but I was on the Canadian Pacific vessel Beaverelm when containers had just taken over the Uk-Canafa route in CP Ships and the Beaverboats then where all on short voyage charters. The Beaverelm was on one of these and did a round trip chater to the West Indies from London.these dates where 22-9=70 till 12-01-71.Outwardbound we carried three zoo animals to Barbados and on the return to the Uk (London) lost a crew member over the side and was strike bound at South-end for a long time.Outbound and homeward bound the vessel was full of general cargo.
Beaverelm off no.304325 london ton 2099 bhp 20700

A very pleasant voyage in contrast to winter N.Atlantic.

Cheers

doddy 29th January 2009 16:17

Hello Sam
As a young boy I travelled from Tilbury to Guyana as a passenger on the SS SPURT registered at Farsund.She was a Sam Boat and under the flag of Saguenay Terminals.

canada tom 11th November 2010 22:49

Sunek
 
It was my intention to emigrate to Canada. So joined Saguenay.Was sceduled to join the Sunrhea but a domestic problem of a crew member saw me sent instead to the Sunk as 4th. eng. Oct 1965-Jan 1967. Carried grain from St. Lawrence to Europe, alumina from Jamaica to Kitimat and Point Comfort Texas to Sundalsorra Norway.
Company's office was at 1066 University St. Montreal. British flag and Canadian East Coast articles. Wages were excellent.Catering was as good as I had experienced on passenger liners.Was on board Sunek when we collided with the Lawrencecliff Hall in the St. Lawrence.Paid off in Kitimat and stayed, eventually becoming a Canadian Citizen

Macbarry 11th December 2010 08:03

i done the same trips as stonaway on sunpolyna with sunpolynesia beloning to eniar rassmussen in68-69 fantastic runs all the best macbarry

oldsalt1 1st April 2011 15:39

Saguenay Terminals were the shipping arm of ALCAN – Aluminium Company of Canada.
The company owned and chartered in general cargo ships and bulk carriers. The prefix “Sun” was given to the names of most of the ships.
The main stay cargoes were bauxite and alumina from the West Indies and South America to various aluminium plants where the raw materials would be converted into aluminium products.
In the late sixties Scottish Ship Management (SSM) chartered the Hogarth owned geared bulk carrier Baron Dunmore to Saguenay. Cargoes of bauxite were loaded in Guyana, Surinam and at Chaguramas in Trinidad, usually for Port Alfred on the Saguenay River in Quebec. Alumina was loaded in Port Esquivel or Rocky Point, Jamaica again for Port Alfred or occasionally Kittimat BC. The Baron Dunmore also loaded bauxite at Conakry, Guinea and, Bintan, Malaysia for discharge at Port Alfred. Grain cargoes were also carried during this charter period.
Before the charter of the Baron Dunmore was completed negotiations were completed with SSM for the ten year charter of two new gearless bulk carriers slightly larger than the Baron Dunmore at 23,340 tonnes deadweight. One was to the order of Lyle Shipping which was a partner in SSM with H Hogarth and Sons and was provisionally named Suncape The second was for Hogarth and was provisionally named Sunbaron. These were built in Norway by Kaldnes Mek Verksted in Tonsberg and were strengthened for navigation in ice. Both came into operation in 1971. Unusually both ships were chartered to ALCAN (Bermuda) and not Saguenay. The provisional “Sun” prefixed names were not used. The Lyle ship was named Cape Race and the Hogarth ship was named Baron Belhaven. Both wore the hull colours and funnel logo of SSM. Grey hull with red boot topping along with cream coloured accommodation block. The funnel was pink with a black top bearing a blue coloured seahorse holding a trident. Shortly after the new ships began trading the Baron Dunmore came off charter to Saguenay.
Both ships traded almost exclusively with bauxite and alumina although the Cape Race did carry a cargo of soya beans from Norfolk Va. to Santander in Spain in 1975 and both ships carried cargoes petroleum coke. During the winter the ships traded to Port Alfred and during the summer cargoes of alumina were carried to Blyth and to the Swedish port of Kubikinborg. The two ships were fitted for carrying part cargoes of Bunker C oil if required. This was to be loaded in Chaguaramas for use at the up-river loading ports in Guyana. These cargoes were rarely carried during the first years of the charter and then not at all.
Part of the charter arrangement was that the ships would carry Guyanese ratings; this was in keeping with the Saguenay tradition of employing crews from the Caribbean. They were signed on at British rates of pay and worked within the recently introduced General Purpose (GP) manning system.
In 1979 both ships were sold to Alcan Shipholdings (Bermuda). SSM retained the management of the ships and the only thing that changed was that the funnel lost the blue seahorse and trident.
The management of the two ships was transferred to Denholm Ship Management of Glasgow in 1986. The Cape Race became the Northern Pioneer and the Baron Belhaven was renamed Northern Explorer. Both ships were then registered in Bermuda and British crews were employed. The funnels were repainted with the ALCAN logo

In 1990 both ships were sold to Greek owners Golden Union. The Cape Race/Northern Pioneer becoming the Flag Eva and the Baron Belhaven/Northern Explorer the Flag Marina. This latter ship, after some years with Chinese owners and an apparently chequered career survives as the Panamanian flag Lucky Winner.
These two ships were replaced by three Japanese built gearless bulkers managed by Denholm with British officers and far eastern ratings until sold. The Northern Enterprise of 66,995 tonnes dwt built in 1985. Northern Venture and Northern Progress of 36,455 tonnes dwt both built in 1989. All three survive albeit with different owners. The first as the Lowlands Saguenay and now as VSP Titan and the sister ships as Federal Venture and Federal Progress respectively.
As for Saguenay Terminals, apparently they have gone the same way as many respected shipping companies and charterers. No doubt chartered tonnage of various flags now carries the raw materials and finished products for ALCAN.

canada tom 2nd April 2011 13:24

Thanks to oldsalt1 for a good write-up. I should mention that after leaving the Sunek in Kitimat, I went to work for Alcan, Kitimat. It was with nostalgia that I visited Saguenay ships in Kitimat. (All my old crew-mates had my phone number) It's true what they say, "It's difficult to swallow the anchor"
Eventually did time with Canadian Armed Forces, Sea Element.

Mariner44 5th February 2012 20:48

I spent 2 years on the Sunwalker and Sunbrayton, 1968-1970 on the weekly run between Mackenzie, Guyana and Chagaramas, Trinidadian. Skippers were Hobbes, Roberts, McOnie and Pakri. It was a bit 'wild' but great fun and lucrative. During the 2 years there was growing 'nationalisation' as officer jobs had to be filled by Guyanese nationals - usually Demerera river pilots.

canada tom 7th February 2012 13:07

Old shipmates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariner44 (Post 573494)
I spent 2 years on the Sunwalker and Sunbrayton, 1968-1970 on the weekly run between Mackenzie, Guyana and Chagaramas, Trinidadian. Skippers were Hobbes, Roberts, McOnie and Pakri. It was a bit 'wild' but great fun and lucrative. During the 2 years there was growing 'nationalisation' as officer jobs had to be filled by Guyanese nationals - usually Demerera river pilots.

You mentioned skippers Hobbs and Roberts.
Both names ring a bell.
Chief mate on the Sunek 1966 was Roberts.
He was English with a large family and had a large house in South England. Had lived in British Guana (probably born there)
Had lived and worked in Canada probably in the Great Lakes area.
I think he served in WW11
Was a great help in assisting me to pay-off in Canada

Mariner44 7th February 2012 14:40

Capt Roberts
 
You're right, he was raised in Georgetown, Guyana.

His brother was editor of one of the local papers...maybe the Guyana Graphic, and a very nice house right next to the cricket ground where we went for dinner and drinks one night with my missus who stayed in Guyana for 3 months at the Park Hotel.

Alan Hobbes left Saguenay and became a Humber pilot.

Did you sail with Eddie Wells, by any chance, when with Saguenay. He and I did our tickets together and used to meet up when on leave. He's now living in Canada.

canada tom 9th February 2012 16:07

shipmates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariner44 (Post 573912)
You're right, he was raised in Georgetown, Guyana.

His brother was editor of one of the local papers...maybe the Guyana Graphic, and a very nice house right next to the cricket ground where we went for dinner and drinks one night with my missus who stayed in Guyana for 3 months at the Park Hotel.

Alan Hobbes left Saguenay and became a Humber pilot.

Did you sail with Eddie Wells, by any chance, when with Saguenay. He and I did our tickets together and used to meet up when on leave. He's now living in Canada.

I do not recall Eddie Wells.
I was 4th. Eng.
I remember one navigator from Trinidad
One Engishman who emigrated to Vancouver.
Cadet was Hemmings.
3rd. Mate Patrick Peirce was from India and ex-BNI
He visited me regularly in Kitimat and decided to also emigrate to Canada.
He paid off in Panama and found his way to Vancouver, and worked on the BC. coast eventually becoming a BC pilot residing in Victoria.
We met when I was in the Canadian Forces visiting Esquimalt.
He now lives in Abbotsford BC and we are in frequent communication.
When I was on the Sunek we had three Greek junior engineers, recruited in Rotterdam.
I was on the Sunek when we collided with, and sank, the Lawrencliffe Hall in the St. Lawrence River.
Had a good time in Levis dry-dock


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