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-   -   Use of Morse by police (https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=291965)

Worldspan 10th March 2019 21:31

Use of Morse by police
 
I've seen snippets about how in the 1920s ex RN telegraphists were employed by some police forces to operate radios in patrol cars. Does anyone know about this? Are there refs in books or magazines? Wonder how long it continued ... when did RT take over?

Did police in the UK use CW point to point? I know the French gendarmerie did. There was also a big Interpol net (around 5 mc/s CW) in the 1960s and perhaps later. Presumably there was a UK radio station operated by the police.

I read in a book about Bletchley that one of the Y stations was a Met Police unit at Denmark Hill. From what I remember, this police intercept unit was already in existence before WW2. You'd think that radio intercept would have been a matter for the armed forces even in peacetime. Does anyone know anything about this outfit at Denmark Hill?

W

beedeesea 10th March 2019 22:18

Mentioned in National Archives:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ils/r/C2228189

Brian

schris 11th March 2019 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldspan (Post 2972715)
I've seen snippets about how in the 1920s ex RN telegraphists were employed by some police forces to operate radios in patrol cars. Does anyone know about this? Are there refs in books or magazines? Wonder how long it continued ... when did RT take over?

Did police in the UK use CW point to point? I know the French gendarmerie did. There was also a big Interpol net (around 5 mc/s CW) in the 1960s and perhaps later. Presumably there was a UK radio station operated by the police.

I read in a book about Bletchley that one of the Y stations was a Met Police unit at Denmark Hill. From what I remember, this police intercept unit was already in existence before WW2. You'd think that radio intercept would have been a matter for the armed forces even in peacetime. Does anyone know anything about this outfit at Denmark Hill?

W

It was set up by Harold Kenworthy, who had worked on radio direction finding during the first WW and who later went on to run the large Tunny intercept "Y" station and F.O.R.D.E. at Ivy farm at Knockholt Pound where Knockholt Bowling club is today.

Originally he was on loan from Marconi to the Met to investigate how radio might help the police, but he was later transfered to the Foreign Office when they took over most of the Y function to supply GC&CS which was about to start its 1938 move up to Bletchley.

The Police were mainly interested in Communist cells during the general strike but tried to get the Foreign Office to take over the intercept function.

The old Police Nursing home building still exists at Grove Park Denmark Hill and the grounds were the station was set up still have a BT site & mast visible from the Railway.

There is something about it in Paul Gannon's book "Colossus: Bletchley Park's Greatest Secret"

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colossus-Bl...s=books&sr=1-1

Moulder 11th March 2019 09:34

The MNAOA Telegraph often carried recruitment advertisements, in the early 70s, for Radio Officers to work for the Met Police in London.


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GW3OQK 11th March 2019 11:23

About 1958 when I was learning Morse I used to take down Interpol messages within the 3.5 to 3.8 mc/s band. The messages were between European countries and I recall there was a lot of mediocre quality Morse, some sent on bug keys. It was usually in plain language.
73, Andrew

John Leary 11th March 2019 17:11

I cannot comment about the early days of radio for the Metropolitan Police Service. However the county police forces in England and Wales were supported by a Home Office Department called the Directorate of Telecommunications (DTels). A brief explanation about county Force radio can be found here https://www.dtels.org/html/history_overview.html . For those with time to spare, a perusal of the remainder of the site is well worth the effort.

Regards

John

Robert M Hughes 14th March 2019 12:08

My Father ex-R.N. telegraphist was in the Police force in this role attached to the R.U.C. on the Fermanagh N.I./ Irish Free State border in 20's.

Worldspan 14th March 2019 21:45

Thanks for the replies ... all VG.

Interesting that the police were checking Communist cells during the general strike. I didn't know that the latter were so organised.

Also, thanks to Bob Hughes for his input. Did your father tell you how things worked out in practice? I mean, was it a normal police car or some kind of van? Was the gear just plonked down on the rear seat? Or perhaps it was a point to point link between police stations.

I have heard that in the 1930s someone on the south coast was picking up the Edinburgh police.

All good stuff and thanks again.

W

schris 14th March 2019 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldspan (Post 2973355)
SNIP

Interesting that the police were checking Communist cells during the general strike. I didn't know that the latter were so organised.

SNIP
W

According to Paul Gannon, the Comintern didn't get it's wireless organised until the 1930s.

During the 1926 strike, the police chased down an illicit wireless station only to find that they'd caught the "Daily Mail" who had set up a secret transmitter in case the Post Office workers joined the strike . .

cb

frankkeavy 14th March 2019 23:35

When I was a kid living in Benalla, Australia, around 1946 the local police Sergeant had been trained to be a R/O but went into the Victorian police force to train (as he put it) hammed fisted police to use Morse from patrol cars.

Frank

Mai Pen Rai 15th March 2019 04:54

The current Police coms system in UK leased from Airwave is considered too expensive and the contract being ended. To replace they are going for a system based on mobile phone tech.

Errrrr except PTT .. Press To Talk / Boadcast to unlimited numbers of other handsets using mobile phone tech not exist .. the experts were saying .. not me.
Last time I did internet research the government were relying on it being invented. Not sure they know what they doing. Its controversial anyway.

Its gonna be interesting to follow what happens. I guess dialing up to speak only to a control room or 1 other person not what is needed.

Meanwhile .. Im available for employment by the Police if they need to re introduce morse. But I not come cheap. 😨😨😨😨😨&#x1f 628;. My perfect morse might be effected by bumpy roads .. so dont hurl too many QSDs at me.

31552 16th March 2019 18:13

zello
 
https://zello.com/ works just fine.

There are other, similar apps...

Mai Pen Rai 17th March 2019 02:26

Thanks for reply. Very interesting new development. Looks like the technology has been found. Thanks again.

Robert M Hughes 19th March 2019 12:21

Worldspan Hi,
Unable to answer re equipment - sorry.
Bob

Alan Couchman 27th March 2019 23:36

Hi Worldspan,

An interesting and detailed article here on use of morse by British police in 400KHz and 2MHz bands in the 20's and 30's. All the best. https://brianpearsblog.wordpress.com...n-medium-wave/

Sorry Worldspan - just noticed that this article has already been referenced by John Leary see above) in another form as https://www.dtels.org/html/history_overview.html, though the second version may contain further details. Best regards, Alan

Worldspan 28th March 2019 14:54

Thanks very much Alan ... what a feast of information from those two links. What a wonderful thing this forum is!
W

beedeesea 28th March 2019 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankkeavy (Post 2973377)
When I was a kid living in Benalla, Australia, around 1946 the local police Sergeant had been trained to be a R/O but went into the Victorian police force to train (as he put it) hammed fisted police to use Morse from patrol cars.

Frank

Nice "action" photo here:

https://cv.vic.gov.au/stories/a-dive...a-world-first/

Brian

beedeesea 28th March 2019 17:01

Photo of the Met in action:

https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/...d/MEV-10425166

Brian

frankkeavy 29th March 2019 23:18

Victorian Police
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beedeesea (Post 2976243)

Thank you for the link.

Frank

trotterdotpom 2nd April 2019 03:15

That must be the origin of "ditdahditdit dahdahdah, ditdahditdit dahdahdah, ditdahditdit dahdahdah".

John T

frankkeavy 2nd April 2019 03:42

Good one. My Morse is rusty these days.
Frank

holland25 2nd April 2019 06:05

I struggled a bit but very risible.

sparks69 6th April 2019 15:30

Don't encourage him please !
(Still trying to work it out - bit rusty these days)

Just got it ..............................

;)

That was my 417th post -- Working frequency of GNF ?

Moulder 7th April 2019 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparks69 (Post 2977701)
Don't encourage him please !
(Still trying to work it out - bit rusty these days)

Just got it ..............................

;)

That was my 417th post -- Working frequency of GNF ?

+1

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