Captain Alfred Coaster North Shields b1912 - Ships Nostalgia
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Captain Alfred Coaster North Shields b1912

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  #1  
Old 13th December 2019, 16:38
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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Captain Alfred Coaster North Shields b1912

Hello, I'm trying to research my grandfathers seafaring career.
Specifically in the Merchant Navy in WW2.

His name Alfred Coaster. Born in 1912. from North Sheilds. I know he sailed on ships from a boy.

I know after the war he was captain for moorline vessels of tyneside, but I have no idea what ships he sailed on during the war. I really have no other details.

I have the medal sheet and he served in the atlantic, african and italian regions.

I have been trying to get a day to go to National Archives but just cant get there at the moment.

Would love to know what ships he served on and any other details.

btw I love this site

It would make me so happy if anyone knows something or can use their amazing skills to find something.
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  #2  
Old 13th December 2019, 18:24
Bob L Bob L is offline  
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Moor Line Records

All Anchor Line, Moor Line and Currie Line Records were lodged with University of Glasgow Archive Services when the companies ceased operating - Moor Line info covers 1847 to 1975.
I was Anchor Line but can recall records mentioning Captain Coaster.

Hope this helps,

Bob L
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  #3  
Old 13th December 2019, 19:00
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Roger Griffiths Roger Griffiths is offline  
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Hello,
I take it that your Grandad was born 05/May/1912. Discharge A number R103720?
You need to get hold of his form CRS10 from the National Archive. This should tell you which ships he served on, together with dates and places of engagement and discharge from early 1941.
These records are stored alphabetically in blocks of 60 names. You would be advised to visit Kew to view.
For service 1941-1946 it should be here.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ro=any&_st=adv

However if he saw service after 1946 it may be here.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C10990427

Have you checked the Fourth Register of Merchant Seamen to see if he has service records prior to 1941?
The pay to view site Find my Past has details. Also check out Ancestry to see if you can find details of his Masters Certificate.

Lloyds Captains Register may have something on him up to 1947. Available from London Metropolitan Archives. They do have a research service but it's not cheap.

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/thin...h-service.aspx

Links to the records mentioned by Bob L
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/N13874246

https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/searc...9-b89287a1accd

Do you have his Masters Certificate number?

regards
Roger
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Last edited by Roger Griffiths; 14th December 2019 at 01:22..
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  #4  
Old 14th December 2019, 13:02
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Hugh MacLean Hugh MacLean is online now
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Hello,

I can confirm there is nothing in the Fourth Register of Seaman for Alfred Coaster b.1912 although there is an entry for the same name b. in the 1890s.

I find Alfred Coaster b.1912 aboard EUPHORBIA, Stag Line as a 19 year-old apprentice in 1930. He had been at sea for 3 years so he started his career at 16 in 1927. I find him again as Third Mate on the same ship on a voyage in 1936.
In April, 1942, until January 1943, he is 2nd Officer aboard the Hopemount Shipping Co. ss HOPECREST. In 1943 I have him on FORT KOOTENAY as the ship’s 1st Mate. Obviously this is not complete and you will need to obtain his CRS10 as highlighted by Roger so that you can get a full picture of his service in WW2. From 1941 back to 1927 when he first went to sea it is not so easy to obtain that information without being prepared to look at crew agreements of the known ships and work backwards. Crew agreements usually show the seaman's previous ship and this is a useful aid for researchers. Feel free to ask any questions.

I don't have access to Ancestry but on a search there is one Alfred Coaster [N. Shields] mentioned but I suspect it is the one b. in 1893 who has dis A. 732446. Perhaps a relative.

Regards
Hugh
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"If Blood was the price
We had to pay for our freedom
Then the Merchant Ship Sailors
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Last edited by Hugh MacLean; 14th December 2019 at 13:11..
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  #5  
Old 16th December 2019, 10:36
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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Hello Thanks for your reply. I sent a query to the archives and got a more detailed list of topics but I was doubting that there would be anything in it about him because of the contents list.

This gives me a bit more hope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob L View Post
All Anchor Line, Moor Line and Currie Line Records were lodged with University of Glasgow Archive Services when the companies ceased operating - Moor Line info covers 1847 to 1975.
I was Anchor Line but can recall records mentioning Captain Coaster.

Hope this helps,

Bob L
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  #6  
Old 16th December 2019, 10:49
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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Hello

Thanks for the reply.

Yes Correct. 5th May 1912 and that is his discharge number. I'm hoping to get to National archives next year and i'll look these things.

No I don't have his Masters Certificate Number. Can I get this online?

Cheers Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Griffiths View Post
Hello,
I take it that your Grandad was born 05/May/1912. Discharge A number R103720?
You need to get hold of his form CRS10 from the National Archive. This should tell you which ships he served on, together with dates and places of engagement and discharge from early 1941.
These records are stored alphabetically in blocks of 60 names. You would be advised to visit Kew to view.
For service 1941-1946 it should be here.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ro=any&_st=adv

However if he saw service after 1946 it may be here.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C10990427

Have you checked the Fourth Register of Merchant Seamen to see if he has service records prior to 1941?
The pay to view site Find my Past has details. Also check out Ancestry to see if you can find details of his Masters Certificate.

Lloyds Captains Register may have something on him up to 1947. Available from London Metropolitan Archives. They do have a research service but it's not cheap.

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/thin...h-service.aspx

Links to the records mentioned by Bob L
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/N13874246

https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/searc...9-b89287a1accd

Do you have his Masters Certificate number?

regards
Roger
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  #7  
Old 16th December 2019, 10:57
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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Hello Hugh, Wow! that's fantastic. How did you find that if you don't mind me asking? Is there a specific date for this info during ww2. would be great to identify which convoy etc?.

Yes I have ancestry. The other Alfred b 1893 is his Uncle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh MacLean View Post
Hello,

I can confirm there is nothing in the Fourth Register of Seaman for Alfred Coaster b.1912 although there is an entry for the same name b. in the 1890s.

I find Alfred Coaster b.1912 aboard EUPHORBIA, Stag Line as a 19 year-old apprentice in 1930. He had been at sea for 3 years so he started his career at 16 in 1927. I find him again as Third Mate on the same ship on a voyage in 1936.
In April, 1942, until January 1943, he is 2nd Officer aboard the Hopemount Shipping Co. ss HOPECREST. In 1943 I have him on FORT KOOTENAY as the ship’s 1st Mate. Obviously this is not complete and you will need to obtain his CRS10 as highlighted by Roger so that you can get a full picture of his service in WW2. From 1941 back to 1927 when he first went to sea it is not so easy to obtain that information without being prepared to look at crew agreements of the known ships and work backwards. Crew agreements usually show the seaman's previous ship and this is a useful aid for researchers. Feel free to ask any questions.

I don't have access to Ancestry but on a search there is one Alfred Coaster [N. Shields] mentioned but I suspect it is the one b. in 1893 who has dis A. 732446. Perhaps a relative.

Regards
Hugh
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  #8  
Old 16th December 2019, 10:59
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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I just want to thank everyone for replying and spending the time to research for me. Means allot.

What a fantastic bunch of people
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  #9  
Old 16th December 2019, 12:40
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Hugh MacLean Hugh MacLean is online now
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Hello Chris,
Firstly, any information given about WW2 by me or anyone else will always be incomplete so your priority has to be his primary records in this case his CRS10, details as posted by Roger.

I use various methods but in this case I checked passenger lists to the US - I think you may have them on Ancestry so take a look. If you can't find anything then send me your email address by pm and I will pass what I have on to you by email.

If you look on Convoyweb - http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/ports/in...ome.php~armain it will give you an idea of what convoys and ports the ships had been in. Try not to go over 12 searches otherwise you will be locked out for a while

Regards
Hugh
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We had to pay for our freedom
Then the Merchant Ship Sailors
Paid it in full”
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  #10  
Old 16th December 2019, 15:10
Bob L Bob L is offline  
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I can recall a Captain Coaster was mentioned as Master on a number of Moor Line Vessels late nineteen fifties - Linkmoor, Glenmoor and Hazelmoor - afraid I do not have any contact details of most of the Moor Line Personnel I knew.
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  #11  
Old 16th December 2019, 16:22
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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Ahh fantastic Hugh. Thank you! I'll check Ancestry. If I don't find anything i'll PM you.

I will make a trip to Kew and view his CRS10. I think it's there as I got a good reply from the reading room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh MacLean View Post
Hello Chris,
Firstly, any information given about WW2 by me or anyone else will always be incomplete so your priority has to be his primary records in this case his CRS10, details as posted by Roger.

I use various methods but in this case I checked passenger lists to the US - I think you may have them on Ancestry so take a look. If you can't find anything then send me your email address by pm and I will pass what I have on to you by email.

If you look on Convoyweb - http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/ports/in...ome.php~armain it will give you an idea of what convoys and ports the ships had been in. Try not to go over 12 searches otherwise you will be locked out for a while

Regards
Hugh
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  #12  
Old 16th December 2019, 16:24
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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Hi Bob fantastic!. I'll follow this through and try and make a visit to the archives in Glasgow. In 63 I think he semi retired and became a harbour pilot at tynemouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob L View Post
I can recall a Captain Coaster was mentioned as Master on a number of Moor Line Vessels late nineteen fifties - Linkmoor, Glenmoor and Hazelmoor - afraid I do not have any contact details of most of the Moor Line Personnel I knew.
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  #13  
Old 16th December 2019, 17:11
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Roger Griffiths Roger Griffiths is offline  
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Chris,
LINKMOOR Built 1961 official number 186919
GLENMOOR Built 1953 o/n 185852
HAZELMOOR Built 1954 o/n 186036
Crew Agreements for the above ships should be in the Maritime History Archives, Memorial University of Newfoundland.
Crew Agreements for 1951-1976 (Not 1955) are not indexed, so you will have to contact their research service directly.

https://www.mun.ca/mha/about/orderagreements.php

Crew Agreements for 1955 are with NMM Greenwich. It may pay you to start here.
https://www.rmg.co.uk/national-marit...s-request-form

Be sure to quote the ships official number and his masterscertificate number in all correspondence to all repositories
I would search "Ancestry" to see if you can find his Masters Certificate number. It narrows the search if you have this. If this action is negative, try searching the BT317 series when you go to Kew.
Do not dismiss the link from Bob L. Archive catalogues rarely give a full total description of the information they hold.

regards
Roger
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  #14  
Old 16th December 2019, 18:32
Bob L Bob L is offline  
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Captain Coaster

I have a feeling that a number of ex Moor Line Officers became Pilots on Tyne/ Tees - might be worth checking with the Pilot Authorities who could put you in contact with them - one name I remember John ? Burns who was Second Mate in the early 60's and subsequently was a Pilot - hope this helps.
Bob L.
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  #15  
Old 16th December 2019, 22:20
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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mmmm found something interesting. Or maybe it's not but I hope it is!

Found him I believe as a passenger on board the MV ADDA. Landing in Liverpool from Lagos. July 1940. This seems to be a passenger steam ship. This is interesting because perhaps he is actually a passenger. Not a member of the crew. So what happened to his ship?. Is it normal for crew to come home on a passanger ship. Do they sign off in different countries?

He just lists profession as Mercentile officer i think.
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  #16  
Old 16th December 2019, 22:44
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Hugh MacLean Hugh MacLean is online now
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Chris,
There could be a few reasons.

He could be travelling home as DBS = Distressed British Seaman
One who is left without a berth, ill or without funds in a foreign port. Typically (during the war) a DBS would be a seaman who was travelling after having his ship torpedoed or lost through other forms of enemy action.

If he was ill then then his shipping company may have paid for his passage home. So you really need to find out what ship he was on previously to find out when and where he signed off and maybe check the logbook narrative pages for any clues.

Regards
Hugh
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We had to pay for our freedom
Then the Merchant Ship Sailors
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  #17  
Old 16th December 2019, 23:25
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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Hew, Yep your exactly right!. In one column at the top is the class "DBS". All the passengers on his page are DBS.

I didn't know what that meant.

There is a rumor in the family that he was torpedoed but we don't know anything.

The MV ADDA sailed from Lagos Africa. He got the Africa star so I know he sailed in this region.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh MacLean View Post
Chris,
There could be a few reasons.

He could be travelling home as DBS = Distressed British Seaman
One who is left without a berth, ill or without funds in a foreign port. Typically (during the war) a DBS would be a seaman who was travelling after having his ship torpedoed or lost through other forms of enemy action.

If he was ill then then his shipping company may have paid for his passage home. So you really need to find out what ship he was on previously to find out when and where he signed off and maybe check the logbook narrative pages for any clues.

Regards
Hugh

Last edited by coastercj; 16th December 2019 at 23:29..
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  #18  
Old 16th December 2019, 23:56
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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What a plonker!! I am. It says at the top of the sheet. Repatriated seamen of SS ARGYLL. Can look this up now
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  #19  
Old 17th December 2019, 00:41
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The ship appears to have been in Dakar from 1940 - 1943 not sure why but the movement card may explain - they can be difficult to read though. Download to your computer for Ł3.50. Held at Kew in piece BT 389/2/68

Logbook including crew agreement for 1940 held at Kew in piece BT 381/1164

Regards
Hugh
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Old 17th December 2019, 14:23
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ARGYLL, Suthland Steamship Co. was seized 5/7/1940 in Dakar by Vichy French forces. Renamed ST HENRI (French Flag) 1941-1943. Recaptured and reverted to her former name.
Photo of ARGYLL as SOMERI

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galle...someri/cat/510

ADDA, Elder Demster Line was sunk by a German Submarine in 1941.
Details and a photograph here.

https://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/980.html

So if your grandad was on board ARGYLL when she was captured, How did he get from Dakar to Lagos a distance some 1875 Nautical Miles? OR did he arrive in Lagos before the capture?


You need to look at the logbooks crew agreements and Movement Cards of both ARGYLL and ADDA. Covering the dates July/Aug 1940. ADDA o/n 146664

ADDA BT381/819 and BT389/1/39

Convoyweb has ADDA in Dakar on 1/July/1940, Accra 13/July/1940. Lagos 14/July/1940. landing in Liverpool 13/14/Aug/1940. I would look at her Movement Card and her logbook to confirm.

regards
Roger.
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Last edited by Roger Griffiths; 17th December 2019 at 15:29.. Reason: attach photo
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  #21  
Old 20th December 2019, 10:32
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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Been doing a bit of reading. It seems after the initial attack at Mers-el-Kébir on the 3rd of july the french may have ordered the Navy to attack british shipping off Dakar.
From a ww2 database site:

4 Jul 1940 The French Navy ordered submarines, armed merchant cruisers, and destroyers based in Dakar to sortie to attack British shipping.

Then on the 5th July the next day the Argyll is captured.

On the immigration record of the MV ADDA arriving in Liverpool my Granddad is in the list of D.B.S passengers. In a list of men under the title "repatriated from the SS Argyll".

There are 3 other ships with D.B.S passengers. Repatriated men but I'm not very good at reading the ship names.

Can anyone else make out what the names of the other ships are. There maybe more info when researching these ships.

Does anyone else have Ancestry? Record is MV ADDA arriving Liverpool in August 1940 from West Africa.

Ships maybe SS Gamlian??
SS Harold??
SS Jakonadian??
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  #22  
Old 20th December 2019, 10:34
coastercj coastercj is offline  
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I'll look at these records when I go to Kew

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Originally Posted by Roger Griffiths View Post
ARGYLL, Suthland Steamship Co. was seized 5/7/1940 in Dakar by Vichy French forces. Renamed ST HENRI (French Flag) 1941-1943. Recaptured and reverted to her former name.
Photo of ARGYLL as SOMERI

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galle...someri/cat/510

ADDA, Elder Demster Line was sunk by a German Submarine in 1941.
Details and a photograph here.

https://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/980.html

So if your grandad was on board ARGYLL when she was captured, How did he get from Dakar to Lagos a distance some 1875 Nautical Miles? OR did he arrive in Lagos before the capture?


You need to look at the logbooks crew agreements and Movement Cards of both ARGYLL and ADDA. Covering the dates July/Aug 1940. ADDA o/n 146664

ADDA BT381/819 and BT389/1/39

Convoyweb has ADDA in Dakar on 1/July/1940, Accra 13/July/1940. Lagos 14/July/1940. landing in Liverpool 13/14/Aug/1940. I would look at her Movement Card and her logbook to confirm.

regards
Roger.
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  #23  
Old 22nd December 2019, 17:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coastercj View Post

make out what the names of the other ships are. There maybe more info when researching these ships.

Ships maybe SS Gamlian??
SS Harold??
SS Jakonadian??
The ships are:
GAMBIA official number 137484
HARALD official number 167435 - Danish under British flag.
TAKORADIAN official number 157533

Regards
Hugh
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