Oil and other not nice things. - Ships Nostalgia
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Oil and other not nice things.

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  #1  
Old 5th January 2020, 23:34
barney b barney b is offline  
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Oil and other not nice things.

Hi guys, just like to ask what oil is burned on cruise ships,is it really dirty heavy oil. Also are there scrubbers on the funnels.Now for the not nice things,are there maceraters for the sewage and is it dumped at sea or pumped ashore while in port.Look forward to your help with these questions.
Regards Barney B.
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  #2  
Old 6th January 2020, 02:04
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Robert Hilton Robert Hilton is offline  
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Good questions reminiscent of Billy Connolly's thoughts about how long distance aircraft manage.
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  #3  
Old 6th January 2020, 02:10
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Send a PM/email to my old buddy "Swansea Chief". Tell him that I sent you. He will "fill" you in with everything that you want to know!
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  #4  
Old 6th January 2020, 09:21
stein stein is offline  
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There is plenty of information on this subject on the net, statistics on sewage and sulphur pollution as well as lack of aesthetics and what not. Here are three links that took me no more than five minutes to gather:

https://www.geekyexplorer.com/cruise-ship-pollution/
https://www.transportenvironment.org...E2%80%93-study
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...lution-problem

If you want more, just google "cruise ship pollution." If you want to excavate more specific infirmation, just be more specific. "Sewage treatment on cruise ships", "Sulphur emission from fuel burned by cruise shipsl" et cetera.

Last edited by stein; 6th January 2020 at 09:29..
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  #5  
Old 6th January 2020, 09:59
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Satanic Mechanic Satanic Mechanic is online now  
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Presently fitting the damn things in China

Scrubbers that is

Dead simple principal , you take air pollution and turn it into water pollution
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Last edited by Satanic Mechanic; 6th January 2020 at 10:02..
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  #6  
Old 6th January 2020, 17:55
barney b barney b is offline  
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Thanks very much guys.Plenty there to keep me going.
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  #7  
Old 6th January 2020, 21:58
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The TSYT brigs had two sewage treatment plants so, I'd guess, most ships have them now. (That's a guess, not hard info). Recollect changing a float valve (or was it sensor) in one which is why the memory will never leave me

Those little brigs were a bit more advanced than my first couple of ships. RO water makers, a/c and, IIRC, GPS.
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  #8  
Old 7th January 2020, 01:22
dannic dannic is offline  
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Originally Posted by Satanic Mechanic View Post
Presently fitting the damn things in China

Scrubbers that is

Dead simple principal , you take air pollution and turn it into water pollution
Yes, various nations have just realised what oil tankers have been doing for years, wonder what acidity in Rottterdam is nowadays?

Singapore, China and others have decided recently to not allow single pass scrubbers in their waters, so all companies currently in dock for scrubbers are scratching their heads, to sat the least.

Dannic.
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  #9  
Old 10th January 2020, 09:35
Kevin Robertson Kevin Robertson is offline  
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Update

Dependent upon the ship they either burn MGO or LNG - hardly any Cruise vessels burn HFO any more, they are simply too canny not to know that the Green lobby is strong and can impact sales, so they lead the market in technologies that have a higher "greener stamp" than Cargo vessels. Nearly all new ships being delivered - 25 new vessels launch in 2020 - will be fuelled by LNG.

Sewage is also treated as a priority, not only for the "image" issue, but because the areas where these vessels operate are extremely sensitive to bio-pollution. ALL Cruise ships will have at least one treatment plant, most will have two and I know that many within the Carnival fleet will have three. Most are bio-reactors, which break down the sewage using a simple biological process, fuelled by air (oxygen). Sludge residue is an inert matter that can be discharged either ashore or at sea, the effluent produced through the bio-processes can be clean enough to re-use at "technical water" - though no one will for obvious reasons. The two "big boys" in ten sewage treatment world are world leaders in this technology, so respect to them.

Respect too to the Cruise companies, they take these responsibilities extremely seriously and are the F1 equivalent of the shipping industry, as they lead the field in all technology developments aboard merchant shipping
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Old 10th January 2020, 16:01
Winmar Winmar is offline  
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Respect too to the Cruise companies, they take these responsibilities extremely seriously and are the F1 equivalent of the shipping industry, as they lead the field in all technology developments aboard merchant shipping
Ah yes, if only this were true. I guess we are talking about the same Carnival Cruise Lines who trade out of Southampton were the head office of the MCA is located. The same Carnival Cruise Lines who were heavily fined for the illegal use of the "secret pipe" for the overboard discharge of dirty bilges/sludge on several of their cruise ships. Have a look at the latest stats my friend, I think that you will find that Oil/Chemical/Gas vessels have a much better recent environmental footprint than the cruise industry. Thank god for whistle blowers!
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  #11  
Old 10th January 2020, 19:55
Kevin Robertson Kevin Robertson is offline  
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I know the stats

Tanker man and of many years, I know the stats very well.

Secret Pipes are not down to the Shipping Companies, but people who operate the ships every day. Carnival et al have paid the fines and put much stranger regimes in place to stop it happening again.

500 cruise ships in the world, 42,000 cargo vessels - pro-rating the stats would not tell a true story, but far more that 500 cargo ships (including Oil/Gas/Chemical tankers) have magic pipes fitted and a recent survey revealed that a significant proportion of sewage plants on cargo vessels were either not operated properly, or not at all. Cruise companies comply with much higher standards - check out the Alaska VGP and Ocean Rangers
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  #12  
Old 10th January 2020, 21:24
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It might be worth throwing into the mix:
Celebrity Millennium class and RCI Radiance class ships (8 in total) use gas turbines, obviously with the appropriate fuel.
The configuration is a pair of gas turbines driving alternators with a waste heat recovery system generating steam for a steam turbine. (COGAS).
It seems to work - Celebrity Millennium and Radiance of the Seas are both now 20 years old.

Unless anyone knows different it seems strange that, if it is good enough for a warship, no more cruise ships seem to have been built with this configuration.
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Old 10th January 2020, 21:43
Winmar Winmar is offline  
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[QUOTE=Kevin Robertson; Cruise companies comply with much higher standards - check out the Alaska VGP and Ocean Rangers[/QUOTE]

With respect sir, what a load of garbage. Oil/Gas/chemical vessels are subject to far more rigorous controls such as TMSA/Sire/CDI inspections/audits by OCIMF Members and the Chemical and Gas Industry at short and frequent intervals, this above Flag/ISM and Class requirements. They are also subject to External Navigation, Cargo, Mooring and Environmental audit by the Oil/Gas and Chemical Clients who use the vessels. By way of example, following the self inflicted clusterf*ck that was the Costa Concordia fiasco, friend who was the Marine Manager at one of the major cruise companies asked me to carry out a serious of Navigation Audits on their vessels as he felt that they "may not be any better" than Costa. I did three vessels by riding on each vessel for 4-5 days and observing Bridge watches, port arrival,port departures, anchoring and management of the vessel under pilotage conditions. My overall comments at the office debrief after all three audits had been completed when asked if they were in line with tanker vessels standards, were that the onboard hardware was second to none, qualifications were second to none but none of the three vessels would pass for operations for the tanker industry. The reason, culture! The officers were arrogant, complacent and believed that nothing could go wrong whereas on tankers, the bridge team planned everything on the basis that something might go wrong! I asked one 2nd officer with a master unlimited qualification what happens if the ECDIS fails? He said that they had two further Tecdis systems powered by separate power supplies. I said ok, but do the separate power supplies have different fuel supplies. To put it mildly, he was at that point speechless.
I am sure that you are an experienced Tanker man but I give you an analogy, I take approximately 100 flights a year for work and leisure, some long,some short but I still cannot fly.

Incidentally, I have carried out all of the above Tanker related inspections/audits since the 22 Jan 2010 as a Category One Sire inspector for Oil/Gas & Chemical vessels, IACS registered Lead Auditor and a Flag State Safety inspector for 3 different flags. My overall impression is that the Cruise industry throws money at issues but does not improve standards in real terms. They are reactive in all observed cases. Just my view.
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  #14  
Old 11th January 2020, 03:49
duncs duncs is online now  
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Fvckn hell, I was only a sparky, who hoped a craphouse was close. The above is mind boggling!
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  #15  
Old 11th January 2020, 04:46
Winmar Winmar is offline  
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Fvckn hell, I was only a sparky, who hoped a craphouse was close. The above is mind boggling!
From what I have seen Duncs you would need easy access to a nearby crap house!
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Old 11th January 2020, 05:56
duncs duncs is online now  
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From what I have seen Duncs you would need easy access to a nearby crap house!
I don't know about that, Winmar, but you obviously have seen more than I have seen.

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  #17  
Old 13th January 2020, 16:48
barney b barney b is offline  
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What a great and informative forum this turned to be.I only asked about this because Dublin Port and Docks are having a consultation about extending their berths in Dublin to have the largest cruise ships berth in Dublin near to city center.Submissions close on 17th January 2020 if you have time to send one in the address is,[email protected]
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Old 15th January 2020, 02:06
Winmar Winmar is offline  
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What a great and informative forum this turned to be.I only asked about this because Dublin Port and Docks are having a consultation about extending their berths in Dublin to have the largest cruise ships berth in Dublin near to city center.Submissions close on 17th January 2020 if you have time to send one in the address is,[email protected]
Thanks Barney, have done. Those things swinging off the oil berths will wreak havoc and it needs thinking about as it will severely restrict tanker movements in the fairway and off the berths at certain times. The tourism benefits of more people, more often will win the day in the end though. I have highlighted my concerns and I am sure that the Ports Marine Safety Code managers will make the required checks before granting operating licences.
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